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Author Topic: CD4 drop  (Read 2829 times)

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Offline alliance

  • Member
  • Posts: 159
  • hmmmm. . .
CD4 drop
« on: September 02, 2010, 11:40:54 PM »
I went to the doc a few days ago and found, what I think is,  a drastic drop in my cd4 - check out my signature below. He said the good news was my % increased and even better I am still undetectable.

He ordered some blood tests, he said I could get them today or wait for my next draw in 3 months, so I got them right away. White blood cells etc.

So it was kind of a kick in the ass, I was hoping for more improvement - Im still kind of new at this. But I was starting to feel more in control but not so much now.

What do you think?  (Usually some one answers here "you're going to die")
"The influence of each human being on others in this life is a kind of immortality."
10/10/12   CD4=378  %=32   VL=UD
5/10/12     CD4=426  %=32  VL=UD
11/15/11   CD4=296  %=29  VL=UD(20)
6/15/11     CD4=345  %=29  VL=UD(38)
3/15/11     CD4=317  %=31  VL=UD
12/1/10     CD4=315  %=28  VL=UD
8/11/10     CD4=250  %=25  VL=UD
6/10/10     CD4=380  %=24  VL=UD
3/4/10       CD4=340  %=22   VL=UD
1/11/10     CD4=312  %=22   VL =130
11/30/09   CD4=228  %=19  VL=1726
11/20/09    started atripla
10/15/09   CD4=281  %=18   VL=85,000

Offline pozniceguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,186
  • Niceguy Dallas
Re: CD4 drop
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2010, 12:05:35 AM »
Not to worry, this sort of "blip"  seems to happen occassionally....  the longer term trend is whats important...  it could have been a wrong reading in the lab or just some anomaly  in the normal course of your body fighting the virus...  I have had several of those over the last 12 yrs  but always undetec..  and gradually the have climbed higher,  ..  started at  2...yes no mistake...  2 ... now over 400 

Nick
remember the good times...honor the past but don't live there
Le stelle la notte sono grandie luminose, nel cuore profondo del Texas

Offline tednlou2

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,045
Re: CD4 drop
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2010, 12:09:06 AM »
I got the "You're going to die" remark recently myself.  However, he redeemed himself with some helpful info.   ;)

I keep hearing after starting meds docs really look at the % and vl, but I'm not telling you anything you haven't heard.  Have you been sick with anything?  More stress than norm?  Less sleep than norm?  I'll let the better informed folks take it from here on the CD4.  

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,706
Re: CD4 drop
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2010, 01:05:13 AM »
I got the "You're going to die" remark recently myself.  However, he redeemed himself with some helpful info.   ;)

 I would never do such a thing.


  Alliance,

      I understand your disappointment and to be honest I would have felt the same five years ago.  It takes time is all I can say.  It's really not about control of the virus, let your immune system work that out.  What you have "control" of is your life and that means not letting it turn a good day into a bad one. 

     It's really not that big of a drop.  The problem lies in that your immune system is still recovering so your numbers are low to begin with.  A drop like you've just experienced seems like a lot with numbers that low, but it is a flunctuation that many of us here experience every blood draw.  I agree with the doctor, the % increase is a very good sign; your immune system is recovering.

     Just relax, you'll be ok.  Talking about it (sharing here) sure does help though.... well, it did in my case anyways. 

     Skeebo
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Robert

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,648
Re: CD4 drop
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2010, 02:45:14 AM »
hi alliance.

maybe it's time to hang ten again.  Your %'s are good so I wouldn't worry.  In another 3 months the numbers will pop right back up where they were.  I hovered in that range for 5 years. 

With fall coming I guess you can forget the surf board (unless you can fit in a business trip to Laguna Beach) so maybe you shuold just enjoy the fall colors.
that does wonders for t-cells.

robert
..........

Offline esper

  • Member
  • Posts: 57
Re: CD4 drop
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2010, 06:29:54 AM »
hey alliance, I just had the same thing happen when I got my tests last week, so was glad to see your topic and the responses. My doc wasn't concerned, said long-term trend is the key (as pozniceguy said), and like the other responses confirm, he said there will definitely be ups and downs in CD4 count for various "normal" reasons. keys are undetectable VL, which you've had (it only took you 4 months to get to UD, great....I just got there and we started the same meds about the same time), and CD4%. I did have a bit of an uptick in lipids so gotta keep an eye on that. anyway, you've got the two keys going in the right direction. good luck and keep well. esper
tested positive June 26, 2009
06/26/2009-CD4 428: VL 56,200: 34.1%
09/28/2009-CD4 388: VL 105,000: 31.9%
11/16/2009-CD4 330: VL 242,000: 23.4%
12/11/09 started stocrin (sustiva) & truvada
02/02/2010-CD4 588: VL 204: 31.6%
04/27/2010-CD4 620; VL 154; 38.5%
08/25/2010-CD4 504; VL undet; 39.2%
11/16/2010-CD4 499: VL undet: 44.6%
03/01/2011-CD4 534: VL undet: 33.2%
06/01/2011-CD4 709: VL undet: 45.6%
12/11/2011-CD4 537: VL undet: 41.5%
06/10/2012-CD4 597: VL undet: 42.8%

Offline bmancanfly

  • Member
  • Posts: 595
  • Medicare For All !
Re: CD4 drop
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2010, 09:51:12 AM »
It's hard not to be concerned when you see your CD4 absolute number go down,  but as others have said fluctuations in the absolute count are normal.  Your CD4 percentage went up and that's good news.  Try not to worry.

And you are going to die - eventually.   ;)
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."

 Bertrand Russell

Offline WillyWump

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,233
Re: CD4 drop
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2010, 10:49:48 AM »

  (Usually some one answers here "you're going to die")

MissP should be along shortly to give you the token "you're going to die".

But like the others stated since your percentage held/slightly increased I think this is just a blippie. I know it's hard not to freak out, but hang in there buddy youll bounce right back up.

-Will
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
11-6-14 CD4- 871, UD
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline metekrop

  • Member
  • Posts: 361
Re: CD4 drop
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2010, 01:07:51 PM »
where is your CD drop.  It rather increased.  But your need to request why your VL is some how high.  :-\
Diag on Dec 8, 2000, CD 440 VL 44K, No Meds
Dec/08 - Feb/09 CD< 50 & VL >500k hosp'z.
St. Atripla - July/09 CD 179, VL 197k
Oct/09 CD 300 VL UD Chol 267
Mar/10 CD 468 UD, Ch 220
Aug/10 CD 460 UD, Ch 195
Dec/10 CD 492 UD, Ch 172
Mar/11 CD 636 UD, Ch 201
Aug/11 CD 530 UD, Ch 98
Jan/12 cd 616 UD, ch 189
Jul/12 CD 640 UD, Ch ?
Dec/12 CD 669 Ud, Ch 125
May/7 CD711 Ud, Ch?
Nov/ 22 663 UD, Ch,
April 17 CD 797,
Oct, 14 CD 810 UD

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,706
Re: CD4 drop
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2010, 01:16:16 PM »
where is your CD drop.  It rather increased.  But your need to request why your VL is some how high.  :-\

You might be reading it backwards.  His latest labs are at the top.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline metekrop

  • Member
  • Posts: 361
Re: CD4 drop
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2010, 02:01:30 PM »
You might be reading it backwards.  His latest labs are at the top.

Wow.. ;D
Diag on Dec 8, 2000, CD 440 VL 44K, No Meds
Dec/08 - Feb/09 CD< 50 & VL >500k hosp'z.
St. Atripla - July/09 CD 179, VL 197k
Oct/09 CD 300 VL UD Chol 267
Mar/10 CD 468 UD, Ch 220
Aug/10 CD 460 UD, Ch 195
Dec/10 CD 492 UD, Ch 172
Mar/11 CD 636 UD, Ch 201
Aug/11 CD 530 UD, Ch 98
Jan/12 cd 616 UD, ch 189
Jul/12 CD 640 UD, Ch ?
Dec/12 CD 669 Ud, Ch 125
May/7 CD711 Ud, Ch?
Nov/ 22 663 UD, Ch,
April 17 CD 797,
Oct, 14 CD 810 UD

Offline Nestor

  • Member
  • Posts: 430
  • What we love, we shall grow to resemble.
Re: CD4 drop
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2010, 04:56:20 PM »

Hi Alliance,

Your percentage has gone up steadily the whole past year; I think that's the main thing and it's good news.  As for your cd4 count, it's basically been in the same ballpark the whole time, and this time it happened to be on the low end of the spectrum.  It happened to be on the high end of the spectrum last time, which makes the change from that to this seem, perhaps, more dramatic than it is.  I would think this is a case where the percentage is telling the more important part of the story. 
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline eric48

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,200
  • @HIVPharmaCure & tinyurl.com/HIVPharmaCure
Re: CD4 drop
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2010, 06:37:30 PM »
Hi Nestor,

Just noticed that you have been 5 years 'enhanced'

and you are not on meds.

Yr CD4 and % are fine but VL a bit high which in my humble opinion means that you have a good number of CD8 killing 'enhanced' CD4, which in your case, fortunatly regenarate petty well so that balance is maintained.

But this, at the expense of CD8. They replicate, but extensive replication leads to aging and exhaustion

Just wondering... Keep well

Eric 
NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   safety stock : 3 months (2013: FOTO= 5d. ON 2d. OFF ; 2014: NCT02157311 = 4d. ON, 3d. OFF)

Granny60

  • Guest
Re: CD4 drop
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2010, 10:07:06 PM »
Still a pretty decent CD4. A lot of things can affect CD4,  another illness like the flu, stress, your age, time of day of your test,  how well you have been eating. All kinds of stuff. What makes a difference is your trend line.  chart if  for  several months and see if it continues to drop, or rise.  Hubby has been up and down like a yoyo.  Anywhere from 309 to 138 and all over between.  That is why they  say the percent   is a better predictor  though I personally think some put a little too much stock in that , because percent relies a lot on how well CD8 helper cells are doing too. If your CD4 continues to drop over the next few months  and your percent  drops, especially with a continued rise in VL I imagine you doctor will start to react.   Hope this gives you a little insight. Your numbers are still better than most people I know.

Offline tednlou2

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,045
Re: CD4 drop
« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2010, 11:00:15 PM »
Wow.. ;D

I made the same mistake at first. 

Offline Lou-ah-vull

  • Member
  • Posts: 952
Re: CD4 drop
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2010, 11:05:50 PM »
Percentage up is the key...yours is going nicely in the right direction.  Absolute numbers fluctuate, maddeninly sometimes, but well within the range of fluctuation.  Keep the faith!

Gary
Diagnosed Oct. 2005
10/05:  367 (26.2%), 24556 VL
01/06:  344 (24.6%), 86299 VL
04/06:  374 (22.0%), 87657 VL
05/06:  Began HAART 05/15/06, Combivir/Kaletra
07/06:  361 (27.8%), 1299 VL
10/06:  454 (32.4%), 55 VL
01/07:  499 (38.4%), UD
02/07:  Switched to Atripla 2/8/07
04/07:  566 (37.7%), UD
08/07:  761 (42.3%), UD
06/08:  659 (47.1%), UD
01/09:  613 (43.8%), UD
07/09:  616 (47.4%), UD
01/10:  530 (44.2%), UD
07/10:  636 (48.9%), UD
01/11:  627 (48.2%), UD
07/11:  840 (52.5%), UD
01/12:  920 (51.1%), UD
07/12:  857 (50.4%), 40
10/12:  UD
01/13:  710 (47.3%), UD
07/13:  886 (49.2%), UD
01/14:  985 (46.9%), UD
06/14:  823 (47.2%), UD

 


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