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Author Topic: Some states prosecute non-disclosure of HIV during sex. Know your risks.  (Read 10701 times)

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Offline mecch

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Hi all.

Since there are a lot of newbies around, and this subject is popping up in various threads, I thought I would create a dedicated thread, once again.

By now you may have heard that the german pop star has been declared guilty of both non-disclosure and principally, transmission of HIV (many years ago, to an ex boyfriend).
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/26/nadja-benaissa-found-guil_n_695360.html

She got off pretty easy, in a global perspective, with the German justice system giving her a 2-year suspended sentence.

HIV+ people around the world MUST be aware of the legal risks they have in the states and nations in which they are having sex.  Whether or not you agree with the prosecutions, they happen.

A lawyer just posted an interesting discussion of the very latest reasoning that should be applied to such cases considering the latest science and medicine:
http://www.towleroad.com/2010/08/stop-or-my-hiv-will-shoot.html

Unfortunately, no HIV+ person can take for granted that the law or that their partners will be reasonable.
Especially the law.

If you are a newbie - please learn now that there one important issue to understand:  non-disclosure can be a crime, even if there is no transmission.  Depending on where you live.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_transmission_of_HIV

If anyone can't google and find the laws that apply in their location, just chirp up and maybe other members here can help find them.

http://criminalhivtransmission.blogspot.com/
Criminal HIV Transmission
A collection of published news stories, opinion, and resources about so-called 'HIV crimes'.

« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 05:14:21 PM by mecch »
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2010, 03:38:54 PM »
No disrespect intended, but was this really necessary?  This has to be disclosure thread #236,748 (cross referenced with "criminalization of HIV" thread #158,462). These things always go downhill and they are not appreciated by many of us around here.

But that's just my opinion. Newbies, have at it for all that I care.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2010, 03:51:57 PM »
No disrespect intended, but was this really necessary?  This has to be disclosure thread #236,748 (cross referenced with "criminalization of HIV" thread #158,462). These things always go downhill and they are not appreciated by many of us around here.

But that's just my opinion. Newbies, have at it for all that I care.

Agreed...  a lot of hurt feelings generally erupt from the issue of criminalization of HIV as well. While knowledge is always necessary, I don't think any of us are in the spectrum that involves non-disclosure.  We care to much for ourselves..  it is what it is though.  The newbies can have at it... but in the end it takes time (for some) living with HIV to truly understand the impact criminalization has for all of us.

I offer the thread good luck anyways.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2010, 03:56:21 PM »
Agreed...  a lot of hurt feelings generally erupt from the issue of criminalization of HIV as well. While knowledge is always necessary, I don't think any of us are in the spectrum that involves non-disclosure.  We care to much for ourselves..  it is what it is though.  The newbies can have at it... but in the end it takes time (for some) living with HIV to truly understand the impact criminalization has for all of us.

I offer the thread good luck anyways.
I agree - everytime I have seen a thread with this topic area it always ignites into personal name calling and eventually gets locked.... maybe this time will be different.... ???
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
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Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2010, 04:32:39 PM »
How in the fuck is this an Off Topic thread?

MtD

Offline mecch

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2010, 04:41:51 PM »
Ah, three such very unhopeful responses.

If it's not for you, don't come back here.

I posted it to give information for people more naive about the issue then yourselves. I didn't insult anyone. The German story is very much in the news.

P.S. if its in the wrong section, the moderators can move it. Keep your vulgar mouth to yourself, MTD. 

ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2010, 04:46:22 PM »
Ah, three such very unhopeful responses.

If it's not for you, don't come back here.

I posted it to give information for people more naive about the issue then yourselves. I didn't insult anyone. The German story is very much in the news.

P.S. if its in the wrong section, the moderators can move it. Keep your vulgar mouth to yourself, MTD. 

It's not fucking rocket surgery. Off Topic is an HIV free zone. That's what it was created for back in fucking 2005.

A place where we could talk about something other than HIV. ::)

If you want to indulge yourself with another round of HIV disclosure hair pulling then post it in fucking LW where this sort of mindless shit belongs.

And yes, I've reported it.

MtD

/edit to correct a fucking typo/
« Last Edit: August 26, 2010, 04:48:11 PM by Matty the Damned »

Offline David Evans

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2010, 05:02:35 PM »
It actually does belong in living with HIV. And I'm moving it now. I'll be watching it closely and if it devolves, as many on this subject do, it will get locked.

David

Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2010, 05:04:36 PM »
It doesn't matter to me one way or the other but as most knows about me, I don't disclose. It's on a need to know basis with me. And I have my reasons for being that way. I don't knock those who want to scream their status for the world to see or those who wish to do it to fight the STIGMA. I respect their choice to do that. All I ask is respect my choice NOT TO until I feel it is necessary to.
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
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Offline BT65

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2010, 06:18:08 PM »
These damned "non-disclosure=criminal" threads are terribly nauseating.  Can't you find something else to prattle on about?  I'm sure n00bs can search out the old threads if need be.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2010, 06:22:55 PM »
Why do you do this, Mecch? Why continually force these divisive issues to the front of the line? Is this a community or a debate class?
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline newt

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2010, 06:28:16 PM »
Non-disclosure is not a crime per se, so change the title please. It's not even metaphorically a crime, even for HIV. There are also many situations where non-disclosure is a very good and extremely sound idea.

A sensible discussion about crimnal laws and HIV discussion is very hard, especially when people may feel guilty, or just bad, about having acquired HIV, or perhaps having potentially passed it on. If passing on a potentially life-thretening virus is criminal you better get the cops out next flu season, bus journey or shag.

We's not criminals for having a virus.

There, I restrained myself and didn't swear in that last sentence.

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline Boze

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2010, 06:37:59 PM »
Why do you do this, Mecch? Why continually force these divisive issues to the front of the line? Is this a community or a debate class?


C'mon, this is not rocket science. There is a new member on the forum who appears to be...umm...not very knowledgeable about HIV.  He asked a question of whether he should disclose his status to his tricks - indicating that he is not aware of the consequences he can face for failing to disclose.
Mech thought it would be useful to start a thread reminding all the new members about the criminal persecution they can face if they fail to disclose to sex partners. It is not meant to be an area to discuss the legal/ethical merits of current legislation - only a brief primer to those who may not be aware of what the law is.
==========
Aug08 - Seroconversion
Mar10 - Diagnosis; cd4 690 - VL 19,000
Apr10 - cd4 600
May10 - VL 4,500
Jun10 - started Atripla ; VL 113
Jul 10 - UD vl, CD4 590
Aug 10 - UD, CD4 810, 52%
Nov 10 - UD, CD4 980

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2010, 06:38:56 PM »


We's not criminals for having a virus.

There, I restrained myself and didn't swear in that last sentence.

- matt


I'll say it for you Matt cause this type of thread gets my blood boiling:

We're not fucking criminals just because we have a goddamned virus. So stop this bullshit.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2010, 06:48:55 PM »
Au contraire!  I'm a criminal of love.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2010, 06:58:02 PM »
C'mon, this is not rocket science. There is a new member on the forum who appears to be...umm...not very knowledgeable about HIV.  He asked a question of whether he should disclose his status to his tricks - indicating that he is not aware of the consequences he can face for failing to disclose.
Mech thought it would be useful to start a thread reminding all the new members about the criminal persecution they can face if they fail to disclose to sex partners. It is not meant to be an area to discuss the legal/ethical merits of current legislation - only a brief primer to those who may not be aware of what the law is.

A primer my gigantic hairy white arse. It's just another fucking opportunity for the shame-weenies to beat their puny chests about what they see as unfairness of having HIV.

MtD

Offline newt

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2010, 06:59:40 PM »
shame-weenie...that is so going on a t-shirt (perhaps with picture)
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2010, 07:12:17 PM »
shame-weenie...that is so going on a t-shirt (perhaps with picture)

Memes-While-U-Wait. :)

MtD

Offline sharkdiver

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2010, 07:17:37 PM »
why, why why why why on earth did you have to start a thread like this?


Offline jkinatl2

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2010, 08:05:09 PM »
I fully disagree, Boze. It is an incendiary thread started with no purpose other than a flamewar - only  a WEEK after an identical thread was locked.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2010, 08:14:51 PM »
I fully disagree, Boze. It is an incendiary thread started with no purpose other than a flamewar - only  a WEEK after an identical thread was locked.


I agree completely that this thread topic - as past recent history has shown - has the potential to be incendiary.  I also think it is quite interesting that the "primer" purpose for newbies doesn't seem to be occurring at all.  I also agree that newbies can search the past topic areas and find whatever information related to this topic area that they may need to know.  Also, information was provided on another thread of where people could look to find out information.
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline Joe K

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2010, 08:18:35 PM »
As a member of this community, I believe we all have the responsibility to be sensitive to other members. The topic of criminalization of HIV exposure, is a very tender subject here and Mecch, I believe you have an obligation to honor the wishes of the forum. Especially, when you are starting a thread, with a topic that was locked a week ago, due to the divisive nature of the subject. Being part of this community requires respect for others and sometimes you really need to think before you post such a tender topic.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2010, 08:24:01 PM »
Just want to caution that we're watching this thread lest it erupt into another flame war. I agree with others who have said the kind of information which newbies need is definitely pretty widely available about legal issues related to disclosure.

For the timebeing I'm leaving this one open. We'll see if anything useful comes of it.  I  also note that not a single newbie has commented that this is a helpful "discussion."
Andy Velez

Offline elf

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2010, 08:31:30 PM »
Here where I live:
hiv disclosure is not considered a must if a condom is used,
hiv transmition cases have made it into the newspapers but no one has been sentenced because of the transmission.

But still...
I'm not ready to tell anyone about my status (less is more) because I haven't really benefited from
disclosing so far (all my friends ran away, and some may have spread the ''news'')...


Bottom line: any nondisclosure can make a headline,
so, watch out! Newspapers of today only serve to humiliate you.
Condom or no condom, criminal transmission law or not, It does not matter to them.

Anyone can sue you for everything.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2010, 08:40:55 PM by elf »
Let's have a Kiki!

Offline ElZorro

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2010, 09:01:46 PM »
Interesting thread....not much meat in it after the OP, though, right?  In fact, if you removed all of the responses that simply questioned why the thread was created, it would be pretty short .... lol

Offline mecch

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2010, 10:21:22 PM »
Exactly.  Im not flaming anyone.

I didn't see the locked thread.  So I certainly didn't create a flame war there, and am not inviting one here.

Newbies may not comment right away.  If ever.  It was just posted a few hours ago, geez.

I saw several news stories this week about non disclosure and prosecution.  Its on the front page in Switzerland.  Its a big world. 

I think this is shoot the messenger. I dont understand the animosity to me, a member of this community.  I didn't write the laws, I don't prosecute them, and I think they are dumb.  I think we need to know about them and then each person makes up his own mind about his actions.   

I don't understand why bringing attention to state persecution of HIV+ people is considered an offensive act by an HIV+ person, myself, against HIV+ people. 

Furthermore, I'm not shaming anyone.  It's not a thread about your personal actions. 

When I joined this forum, I didn't know much about a lot of things and I learned it by reading peoples conversations.  I don't understand why internecene bitchiness among us members, has any value in a thread on a serious topic such as knowing the legal stakes in being HIV+ in certain parts of the world. 

Quite a few of you don't personally like me so send me personal hate mail privately but unless you have something constructive and informative to add toward informing people.

Newt is right that a discussion of this topic is difficult but if we can't do it here, what a pity.  He is wrong saying non disclosure is not criminal, per se, which is the point of my post, because evidently in some countries and in some states in the US, it a prosecutable offense.

There is a man who may serve 15 years for a one off encounter, in Texas.  I personally find this very worrisome and if you do to, why shoot me, the messenger?

Can we stay on the topic and discuss that?  Or do you who dislike me so much have to hijack the thread?

ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2010, 10:24:27 PM »
Exactly.  Im not flaming anyone.

I didn't see the locked thread.  So I certainly didn't create a flame war there, and am not inviting one here.

Newbies may not comment right away.  If ever.  It was just posted a few hours ago, geez.

I saw several news stories this week about non disclosure and prosecution.  Its on the front page in Switzerland.  Its a big world. 

I think this is shoot the messenger. I dont understand the animosity to me, a member of this community.  I didn't write the laws, I don't prosecute them, and I think they are dumb.  I think we need to know about them and then each person makes up his own mind about his actions.   

I don't understand why bringing attention to state persecution of HIV+ people is considered an offensive act by an HIV+ person, myself, against HIV+ people. 

Furthermore, I'm not shaming anyone.  It's not a thread about your personal actions. 

When I joined this forum, I didn't know much about a lot of things and I learned it by reading peoples conversations.  I don't understand why internecene bitchiness among us members, has any value in a thread on a serious topic such as knowing the legal stakes in being HIV+ in certain parts of the world. 

Quite a few of you don't personally like me so send me personal hate mail privately but unless you have something constructive and informative to add toward informing people.

Newt is right that a discussion of this topic is difficult but if we can't do it here, what a pity.  He is wrong saying non disclosure is not criminal, per se, which is the point of my post, because evidently in some countries and in some states in the US, it a prosecutable offense.

There is a man who may serve 15 years for a one off encounter, in Texas.  I personally find this very worrisome and if you do to, why shoot me, the messenger?

Can we stay on the topic and discuss that?  Or do you who dislike me so much have to hijack the thread?

You didn't see this 9 page monster?

Heidi, please. Clean the shit out of your eyes. ::)

There is nothing in your OP which wasn't covered in the previous clusterfuck. Or the eleventy-squillion other threads that have been had on this sucked dry issue.

MtD

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2010, 10:27:55 PM »
I actually never read the archived discussions.  So I don't necessarily see new members of the forums reading up on the old threads to find this material.  After viewing the thread that was turning into this very discussion mecch started a new thread in an attempt not to further derail.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2010, 10:29:58 PM »
"archived"?  that was two weeks ago
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2010, 10:30:55 PM »
"archived"?  that was two weeks ago

So if someone started reading the forums this week then they would not see an older thread.  I honestly don't even know which thread you guys are talking about and I catch up on these threads daily.

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2010, 10:34:53 PM »
So if someone started reading the forums this week then they would not see an older thread.  I honestly don't even know which thread you guys are talking about and I catch up on these threads daily.

C'mon Fergie, remember the "but he looked so healthy" thread about some fella in Australia?  Don't tell me that your memory is failing you this early.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline WillyWump

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2010, 10:35:24 PM »
Frankly I dont see what all the broo-ha-ha is about. I actually find Mecchs info and links useful. I too, missed "the other" thread.

-W
POZ since '08

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Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2010, 10:35:44 PM »
C'mon Fergie, remember the "but he looked so healthy" thread about some fella in Australia?  Don't tell me that your memory is failing you this early.

That only got locked 2 weeks ago?  I was thinking it was more like 2 months.  I do seem to remember it getting resurrected a long time after it was initially posted though.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2010, 10:37:18 PM »
So if someone started reading the forums this week then they would not see an older thread.  I honestly don't even know which thread you guys are talking about and I catch up on these threads daily.

So we should do a new thread like this every two weeks, year after year?  Oh, what a brilliant idea Hellboy.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2010, 10:40:29 PM »
So we should do a new thread like this every two weeks, year after year?  Oh, what a brilliant idea Hellboy.

You know as well as I do these forums continually generate discussion over the same topics.  It's going to happen as there's really the same issues facing all of us continually.  I'm a little concerned over what I perceive as people essentially boycotting Mecch's post because it was Mecch who posted it.  In truth he was attempting to be helpful and if you or anyone didn't like it there was really no reason to post in it.

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2010, 10:41:00 PM »
So if someone started reading the forums this week then they would not see an older thread.  I honestly don't even know which thread you guys are talking about and I catch up on these threads daily.
It was there Trey - I very well remember it - In fact, I believe that the resulting comments that the thread incited actually led to a member getting either timed out or banned --- at any rate, I think that much like we provide links to reputable sources for medical information, this thread (at the beginning, if I recall while typing) and the other thread that was locked, as well as a thread that is currently still open have given ample resources to find out legal issues surrounding non-disclosure in a person's respective state/country.  Once that info is out there (which it is) anything else that is going to go on in a thread with this type of topic is going to be opinion-based and for sake of debate, argument or dispute.  Just my "opinion" on the matter.  
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline texas_stud

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2010, 10:55:47 PM »



this post is very scary. i dont like it. and i understand why these dudes get pissed off about it.



boze: i know you directed this at me. i dont like you dude.
i dont know how to use the purple boxes but heres what you said

(boze)
C'mon, this is not rocket science. There is a new member on the forum who appears to be...umm...not very knowledgeable about HIV.  He asked a question of whether he should disclose his status to his tricks - indicating that he is not aware of the consequences he can face for failing to disclose.


i guess your calling me dumb. mrs ann told me that you were not supposed to do that.
keep your mean to yourself.


i have to go to work at the club. dont fight anymore dudes.

Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2010, 10:57:10 PM »
I guess I need to take the time to read more in here instead of just breeze thru threads. I didn't know there was a simliar thread that just got locked. But I do admit there has been a discussion(s) about it plenty of times before. The horse has been beat, mummified, and beat some more.
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

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Offline joemutt

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2010, 11:42:30 PM »
the correct name of the tread is 'the attempts at criminalizing non-disclosure' not 'the crime of non-disclosure'.

Granny60

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2010, 12:07:50 AM »
Unfortunately for some newly diagnosed,  people changing states,  and  those like myself who live in the boonies and had to find out about HIV on their own long before knowing about POZ or case management or any other crap, this is a relevant subject if they don't know. POZ is  not just for mindless bantor  for some of us that still need a sense of community and comradery,  but for for some  a resource.   A link on Lessons with a side note that the info may be dated or subject to change as laws  change might help people who DON'T YET KNOW EVERYTHING.  Please be nice.

http://www.hivlawandpolicy.org/resources/view/198

 State Criminal Statutes on HIV Transmission, Lambda Legal
 * Criminal Law
       Resource Type
    Compilations of Laws and Cases  
Description

    This chart, updated in August 2009, includes state-by-state information on criminal laws related to exposure and transmission of HIV for all 50 states and the District of Columbia. Information includes statutory and regulatory citations, crime classification, summaries of laws, and additional notes.

edit 11:09 P.M because I can't feakin spell tonight.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 12:10:25 AM by Granny60 »

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2010, 12:28:02 AM »
Your link doesn't seem to show anything for Texas, so... since that's the actual topic of this thread at best it's unclear for the OP.

Also, for Trey, it seems that Louisiana allows you to have sex without disclosure if you utilize a condom.  There's no feasible "intentional exposure" if you do that, correct?  Missouri seems draconian like Granny previously stated, like Iowa.

Still to make a blanket statement that this is "the standard in most states" is a diservice to our forum readers in other states.  One should also keep in mind the relative effect on all HIV+ people in the US, meaning which states have the largest concentration of pozzies, at least in the context of a message board.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Granny60

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2010, 12:43:20 AM »
Texas Criminal code among way to many pages to post here
   Sec. 81.066. CONCEALING COMMUNICABLE DISEASE OR EXPOSURE TO COMMUNICABLE DISEASE; CRIMINAL PENALTY

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #42 on: August 27, 2010, 12:48:48 AM »
Texas Criminal code among way to many pages to post here
   Sec. 81.066. CONCEALING COMMUNICABLE DISEASE OR EXPOSURE TO COMMUNICABLE DISEASE; CRIMINAL PENALTY

A condom prevents exposure last time I heard -- what you're posting isn't clear with intent.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Granny60

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #43 on: August 27, 2010, 01:38:37 AM »
I emailed my sister in texas  and asked her who texted her neighbor down the street who is an attorney and I have copy and pasted the  reply:
   There are a number of statutes dealing with communicable disease and some that specifically pertain to HIV or Acquired Immune Disease but this is not really my area of expertise. Counties are also allowed to write their own laws. Most prosecutors would probably prefer to prosecute along the line of endangering the welfare or attempted murder to obtain an easy conviction and use enough scare tactics that a judge or jury would convict the offender to insure their own little tramp at home might never be exposed.  This is Texas; if they could get away with it they would probably just use "  I thought he was breaking in , so I just shot him"  if they could get away with it. L.O.L. I can ask Hank if you really need to know or link you to specific statutes.  I hope this is just a curiosity matter and not a need to know. So you have one less football player with one off to college.  Wow.

Offline dvinemstre

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #44 on: August 27, 2010, 09:24:03 AM »
Taking this from a slightly different angle, if any of you have read the President's HIV/AIDS plan for the US which was signed this summer, I have to point out the MAIN issue it outlines with there being criminalization laws on the books in many states. THE CRIMINALIZATION , lawsuits, etc ONLY can be "enforced" if there was INTENT. One of the biggest issues is that people do not want to know and therefore do not get tested. so 1) if I do not know I'm Poz I can not have intent, which means 2) I can fuck myself and everyone in the universe silly, bareback, raw, whatever, and NEVEr have intent, 3) ANY criminalization laws DETER people from being testing and knowing their status. This then leads to lack of health care and monitoring for persons who are + and could benefit from early detection and intervention. I am contiinually amazed by people who do not think twice about having random unprotected sex and NEVER getting any STI tests, period. And for the record I am a middle ages straight female. The report also points out that the "intentional" - note intent- act to infect another is very low and persons who know they are + typically are quite safe in their sexual dealings, disclosure or not. SO it seems to me that knowing there are criminalization laws is just as important as knowing there are travel bans and other things in different parts of the US and global community. I really hate that disclosure is an ongoing source of discord here and for some of us (myself included) a sticky hot mess of an issue...which changes depending on how much shit I have gotten served that day, week, year, how horny I am , and the partner in question. HOWEVER< condoms ALWAYS apply. thanks for reading. z

Offline Ann

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2010, 11:35:54 AM »

I didn't see the locked thread.  So I certainly didn't create a flame war there, and am not inviting one here.

What, you didn't see a thread you posted in over thirty times? Now I understand some of your responses - you don't read what you're responding to cuz you got your eyes closed or summat.


Most people here know my stance on the criminalisation of hiv - it's criminal. The laws, that is. It's a bad idea on so many levels.

While it feels like beating a dead horse to many here, it's new territory for many as well. So have at it - and I say that with some reluctance.

To agree to having unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse is to agree to the possibility of being infected with hiv or any other STI. It's your body, it's your responsibility, so forget about prosecuting the other person for what is essentially your own mistake.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mecch

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2010, 01:04:33 PM »
What, you didn't see a thread you posted in over thirty times? Now I understand some of your responses - you don't read what you're responding to cuz you got your eyes closed or summat.

Someone here referred to a thread of "a week ago" that was locked. As Hellraiser also confirmed, we didnt think of this one that started a few months ago.  I hadn't returned to that thread after it started going down hill.  AND i repeat, I don't flame.

Ann, I read what I write and I don't need you, a moderator, "mobbing" on me as well.  Stop it.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Ann

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2010, 01:22:29 PM »
Ann, I read what I write and I don't need you, a moderator, "mobbing" on me as well.  Stop it.

I didn't say you don't read what you write, I said you don't read what you're responding to. And I'm not mobbing on you. As if.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: The crime of non-disclosure - a new thread.
« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2010, 03:04:58 PM »
Draaaaahhhma llama! 

The Academy Awards are still six months away. Chill out.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline Joe K

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How Non-Disclosure of poz status, before sex, can be a crime in some areas
« Reply #49 on: August 27, 2010, 04:15:41 PM »
I think this thread could have been very effective, if it was titled correctly. Non-disclosure of being HIV+ has almost no bearing on anything, until it involves personal contact with another person. By titling the thread as "The crime of non-disclosure" it implies that all non-disclosure is a crime and my first reaction was WTF? Even after reading the OPs source, while I understood the nature of the thread, the title remains an insult to poz people everywhere.

Ah, three such very unhopeful responses.

If it's not for you, don't come back here.

I posted it to give information for people more naive about the issue then yourselves. I didn't insult anyone. The German story is very much in the news.

P.S. if its in the wrong section, the moderators can move it. Keep your vulgar mouth to yourself, MTD.  

I submit, that you have insulted members of this forum, as evidenced by some of the responses you received. You may not think you insulted anyone, but you did and while I am sure it was unintentional, the fact remains that you insulted some members. Your failure to acknowledge this issue, just furthers hard feelings amongst members, because we are supposed to be sensitive towards each other. Your cavalier dismissal of the feelings, that this thread generated, coupled with the incorrect title, have served to once again bring hurt to some members, while diluting any initial message beyond being effective.

Edited to add: Please notice the title I chose for this thread, as shown above. Do you think members would have responded the same way, to that title?
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 04:30:47 PM by killfoile »

 


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