Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
E-newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr MySpace
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
July 30, 2014, 07:59:45 PM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 632431
  • Total Topics: 47896
  • Online Today: 294
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: Having unprotected gay sex........  (Read 18321 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Having unprotected gay sex........
« on: August 01, 2010, 11:24:19 PM »
okay!
So i have been poz. for about four mths now.At first i completely shut off people i basically hid(and I'm still hiding),but now that i have come to "kinda" accept the fact that i have HIV.I started to look for others who also have HIV. I have noticed by talking to numerous gay HIV positive males that they have unprotected sex with other HIV positive males (and negative males). Now i have read a lot of information that says you can get infected with HIV more then once,and that you can become "super" infected. And that you can get more amounts of "drug" resistant   stains. Also when i went to the doctor she also told me the same thing and that i shouldn't have unprotected sex period. So i guess my question is why would an HIV positive male have unprotected sex with another positive(and negative) male if there is a risk of becoming infected(or infecting another) by a potentially more progressive, more drug resistant stain of HIV,(and then turn around and have unprotected sex with an HIV negative male?).
Also i have noticed that people that have had HIV for longer periods of time have kinda "went back to there old ways." in a sense that they "calmed down" when they were first diagnosed but then as time went on just kinda "got use to" there status and just went back to there old ways. i.e. partying, drugs, sex,etc...it's just all every strange to me what people do!? Like i don't understand? it makes me go wow! your silly and foolish!! :o
it also makes me feel very disappointed in people that do the things they do.   :-[

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2010, 11:29:38 PM »
oh!
And do you remember that horrible,lost,sad,shocked,crushed,i can't believe it, Im going to dye feeling you had when you were told that you are positive?
How could you (even if the other person wants it) have unprotected sex with someone who is negative?

Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,782
  • Smart ass faggot ©
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2010, 11:32:07 PM »
Are you asking a question or simply throwing judgment around?  I'm not sure what your real intention is.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2010, 11:39:57 PM »
Are you asking a question or simply throwing judgment around?  I'm not sure what your real intention is.


well no Im not!?
i just don't understand or get it?
Im not trying to judge anyone. You can do what you want that's up to you, and i don't care as long as it doesn't effect me personally. I would just like to know the thought behind the action?
because i don't understand??
So my intention is trying to see something from some other point of view. 

Offline max123

  • Member
  • Posts: 377
  • Carpe Diem
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2010, 11:51:57 PM »
So i guess my question is why would an HIV positive male have unprotected sex with another positive(and negative) male if there is a risk of becoming infected(or infecting another) by a potentially more progressive, more drug resistant stain of HIV,(and then turn around and have unprotected sex with an HIV negative male?).
bryan,

firstly, don't be sexist. secondly, focus on yourself and start deciding where you are in terms of sexual comfort with another person, whether they're poz or neg. stds are a 2 way street and you need to simply devise and execute some boundaries to keep yourself  (and others) healthy....especially in a casual sex situation, aka a hookup. being poz doesn't mean that you (or anyone else) will never knock boots again...just do it intelligently, in a way that is right for you & enjoy

Edited to add: "it makes me go wow! your silly and foolish!! Shocked
it also makes me feel very disappointed in people that do the things they do".


are in fact, judgmental comments...think about it
« Last Edit: August 01, 2010, 11:56:22 PM by max123 »
1/86 - 6/08 (annually): neg elisa
7/09: pos elisa/pos wb
8/09: cd4 560, cd4% 35, vl 13,050
12/09: cd4 568, cd4% 33, vl 2,690
4/10: cd4 557, cd4% 29.3, vl 6,440
7/10: cd4 562, cd4% 29.6, vl 3,780

Online Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,943
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2010, 11:58:30 PM »
Are you asking a question or simply throwing judgment around?  I'm not sure what your real intention is.

Folks that ask rhetorical questions aren't looking for answers.

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2010, 12:02:53 AM »
Folks that ask rhetorical questions aren't looking for answers.


oh ?
That was rhetorical i never can tell?

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2010, 12:09:51 AM »
Edited to add: "it makes me go wow! your silly and foolish!! Shocked
it also makes me feel very disappointed in people that do the things they do".


are in fact, judgmental comments...think about it
[/quote]


dam! that is judgmental isn't it!?
so just omit that part,and forgive me!
:)

Offline tokyodecadence

  • Member
  • Posts: 234
  • A one room disco.
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2010, 12:14:25 AM »
.....Christ on a bike.
[.Fodão.]

Offline phildinftlaudy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,959
  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2010, 12:27:20 AM »
Hi Bryan:

I appreciate that you are seeking answers on your questions.  I really do.  I know that before (when you had first got on the forums) you got blasted for expressing some of your views, thoughts, opinions in other threads.  So, I give you a lot of credit, because you started a thread where you could directly express what was on your mind.

I think that you are venting your feelings and thoughts about what some people do.  I guess the best way to answer it would be with other similar questions:
1) Why do people go over the speed limit when they know it results in more accidents?
2) Why do people smoke cigarettes or use drug (i.e. coke, heroin, etc) when they know that drugs can harm
3) Why do people physically fight with others in an argument?
4) Why do people eat fatty foods or other unhealthy types of foods?
5) Why do people.....

Do you get the idea?  People are people.  We live. We make decisions (some good, some not so good) - but each person is given free will to do what they do.  And, most decisions are subjective, meaning that in one person's eyes it may be a good idea and to someone else it may not be.  While it is okay to disagree with someone - and to have a different opinion about something - what most people are looking for is support - to me, support means, you are there for the person no matter what their decisions are, whether you agree or disagree with what they do (or don't do).  It doesn't make you any better or the other person any better or worse to have a decision or a lifestyle or outlook that differs from yours.  

You will find on these forums that there are many different beliefs and opinions about a host of things - there are some members who I disagree with and may even vent that, but I also always want to be sure that I am clear that it is my opinion and that does not make it any better or worse then their opinion.  I also want to be supportive.  Show support, voice YOUR opinion, but allow others to voice theirs - re-read your posts before you hit the post button to make sure that what you are saying reflects that --- Also, know ahead of time whether or not you are going to really "be satisfied" with whatever answer/response you may get.

Once again, thanks for posting - because I really don't think it was your intent to cause harm by posting what you did --- hope this helps.... might not have answered your question, but all the same, I hope it helps to clarify that people are people....
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline wtfimpoz

  • Member
  • Posts: 418
  • Let's make biscuits!
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2010, 01:24:21 AM »
okay!
So i have been poz. for about four mths now.At first i completely shut off people i basically hid(and I'm still hiding),but now that i have come to "kinda" accept the fact that i have HIV.I started to look for others who also have HIV. I have noticed by talking to numerous gay HIV positive males that they have unprotected sex with other HIV positive males (and negative males). Now i have read a lot of information that says you can get infected with HIV more then once,and that you can become "super" infected. And that you can get more amounts of "drug" resistant   stains. Also when i went to the doctor she also told me the same thing and that i shouldn't have unprotected sex period. So i guess my question is why would an HIV positive male have unprotected sex with another positive(and negative) male if there is a risk of becoming infected(or infecting another) by a potentially more progressive, more drug resistant stain of HIV,(and then turn around and have unprotected sex with an HIV negative male?).
Also i have noticed that people that have had HIV for longer periods of time have kinda "went back to there old ways." in a sense that they "calmed down" when they were first diagnosed but then as time went on just kinda "got use to" there status and just went back to there old ways. i.e. partying, drugs, sex,etc...it's just all every strange to me what people do!? Like i don't understand? it makes me go wow! your silly and foolish!! :o
it also makes me feel very disappointed in people that do the things they do.   :-[

1)  As near as I can tell, the whole "Superinfection"/resistant strain thing is considered pretty dubious science.  Many people consider it a small risk to take in light of the pleasure it affords them.  Would I recommend this risk?  No, after getting it despite taking what I believed to be "reasonable" precautions, I'm pretty much afraid to leave my condo, and assume every single doomsday study is completely true.  If someone is upfront about their behavior, I wouldn't really condemn them though.

2)  Its not just those who've had it "for a long time".  Scan Barebackrt.com, there are plenty of gay men of all ages doing this.  Its not like today's gays are exactly sexual prudes. 

3)  Just some perspective:  I wonder how much of the behavior you see from those unconcerned with superinfection is a result of pre-existing emotional issues.  I actually made  a half hearted attempt at stupid crazy sex this evening.  No luck, which made everything worse.  It was because I felt so bad about everything, i just wanted to feel sexy, to feel worthy, and frankly, the costs seemed like benefits.  My infection is slowly peeling back the layers of my life, day by day and week by week.  The future is more uncertain now than ever, but I'm supposed to keep hacking through the daily grind like I give a shit.  My partner is afraid to be in the same room with me and every time he gets the sniffles he is convinced he's gotten my virus, despite us NOT having had sex.  I told him he was being ridiculous, and he actually told me I needed to "see it from his perspective".  See WHAT from his perspective?  That he's concerned the disease is fucking airborn?  Its not like my dating options are that good if he leaves me either:  I scanned poz personals.  Of the ten guys on it, I think, maybe, one was within a decade of my age.  Paranoia has completely consumed me.  I live in constant fear that I'll be "found out".  Socially, I'm as good as a pariah.  I can't commit suicide, but I pray for some random accident.  More often than not, I wish it was 1986 so I could just fucking die in a few years and get it over with, instead I'm going to have to endure 40 more fucking years of this bullshit,not knowing whether there is anything down the road worth living for.  Even the fucking lepers of yesterday got to live amongst themselves and experience a degree of normalcy in that.  HIV is a horrible, horrible fucking thing, and the fact that it robs you of your life is only the tip of the iceberg.  Speeding up one's demise with the joys of sex may seem reasonable to someone who hasn't personally seen what the virus can do.  Not saying this is a good idea of course, but "sex as suicide" could be a rational cause for this lack of concern.

4)  One of the few things that keeps me going is the moral superiority of knowing that I likely haven't visited this atrocity on anyone else.    That said, if you're honest about your status, I don't condemn anyone for engaging in consensual behavior with other adults.  Besides, how many of these "neg" guys who willingly bareback with positive guys are really "neg"?  For that matter, how many of these "neg" guys who only bareback with other guys who say they're "neg" are really neg?  How long can any of these people plan to stay that way?  Pozzing the naieve or reasonably cautious is a terrible thing.  Hastening the inevitable...not so much. 

5)  Try not to judge others so much.  This disease is already overly-moralized.  It doesn't need the contributions of someone who should be aware that its not the exclusive domain of meth addicts and sex fiends.

6)  The rest of you, try not to judge this guy.  He's young and clearly has baggage related to not just his virus but also his sexuality.  Its a gotta be a tough pill to swallow all at once.  Its very easy to look at what he writes and think "wow, what an assclown", but he's just trying to work through his own issues in saying the stuff he does.  Every single negative thing gay or poz people do, he now interprets through society's lens that "thats how they got it", and he attempts to differentiate himself through his condemnation.  Correct him.  Reassure him.  Then move on.  This forum has a lot of great support and a lot of strong personalities with a lot of insightful things to say.  Unfortunantely, a lot of you tend to forget "what it was like" to experience what he's going through.
09/01/2009-neg
mid april, 2010, "flu like illness".
06/01/2010-weakly reactive ELISA, indeterminant WB
06/06/2010-reactive ELISA, confirmed positive.

DATE       CD4     %     VL
07/15/10  423     33    88k
08/28/10  489     19    189k
09/06/10-Started ATRIPLA
09/15/10  420     38    1400
11/21/10  517     25    51

Offline leatherman

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,061
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2010, 01:45:44 AM »
So i guess my question is why would an HIV positive male have unprotected sex with another positive(and negative) male if there is a risk of becoming infected(or infecting another) by a potentially more progressive, more drug resistant stain of HIV,(and then turn around and have unprotected sex with an HIV negative male?).
you might want to try to only discuss one topic. An HIV+ person having unprotected sex with a HIV- is one thing, while an HIV+ person having unprotected sex with another HIV+ person might be a vastly different thing. (adding "turning around and having unprotected sex with an HIV- person" really muddies the waters just too much when trying to have a discussion)

Also i have noticed that people that have had HIV for longer periods of time have kinda "went back to there old ways." in a sense that they "calmed down" when they were first diagnosed but then as time went on just kinda "got use to" there status and just went back to there old ways. i.e. partying, drugs, sex,etc...it's just all every strange to me what people do!? Like i don't understand? it makes me go wow! your silly and foolish!! :o
"going back to their old ways" is sort of an ambiguous idea too. After a while most every HIV+ person adjusts to the new reality of being HIV positive. To be honest, coming to terms with being HIV+ and going back to living your life rather than being consumed with the ideas and ramifications of being positive is something I would hope every poz person could achieve. Being positive does not preclude drinking, sex, or even drugs. Sure some of those things could have a negative effect on a person's health; but none of those in moderation would put you in an early grave or disrupt HIV therapy/medication, or even cause you to spread HIV to another person. Of course for optimal health or to better curtail the spread of HIV, people might have to make some minor life changes; but that's what life is all about - change.

it makes me go wow! your silly and foolish!!
That really is being judgemental and being all judgemental again isn't going to encourage anyone to engage in a discussion/conversation with you. You need to have a more open mind about things rather than simply sticking to your preconceived notions.

for example some of us have differing opinions about whether HIV+ people under proper treatment and having sex are actually creating a super-infection. There is no definitive proof of that yet. Untreated pozzies barebacking might; but many people don't think that HIV+ people with undetectable viral loads are creating any super infections. Of course, your doctor told you what she did. You're obviously at the early stages of dealing with your status and prone to be a bit judgemental. She's just emphasizing the need for safer sex to prevent the further spread of HIV.

Take some time, read the medical studies coming out, chat with us about these issues, and decide for yourself. notice that for all those HIV+ poz people barebacking one another there is NOT some epidemic of super infection happening at all. Read the studies and see that the people developing super infection, for the most part, have not even begun therapy to treat their HIV and so still have high viral loads when they are having sex.

You really seem to be mixing all sorts of things together  - poz/poz sex, poz/neg sex, drugs, adjusting to being poz, being poz and having bad habits, drug resistant strains and super-infections - these are all huge topics that you would probably be better off tackling one at a time. It takes time to learn what has been discovered about HIV after 30 years and you can't know everything all at once. Plus every month that goes by, it seems a little more is known about HIV, being positive, and living with it.

Personally, I don't think you'll meet a person here who is actually going out and purposefully screwing HIV- people to pass on this infection. However, it's also not up to the people here to watch out and protect someone else's health if they are so foolish - after 25+ years of prevention messages - to go out, have unprotected sex and risk their own lives. If I saw someone accidentally stepping out in front of a passing car, I would yell out a warning and try to save them. However, if they do jump out in front of that car, the guilt doesn't lie on my head for them losing their life. It's a sad world and many people do things (those "strange things" like you mentioned are part of that too) that I wish they wouldn't; but I can't control anyone but me, and I'm not guilty of any actions other than my own.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,782
  • Smart ass faggot ©
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2010, 02:21:18 AM »
Socially, I'm as good as a pariah.  I can't commit suicide, but I pray for some random accident.  More often than not, I wish it was 1986 so I could just fucking die in a few years and get it over with, instead I'm going to have to endure 40 more fucking years of this bullshit,not knowing whether there is anything down the road worth living for.  Even the fucking lepers of yesterday got to live amongst themselves and experience a degree of normalcy in that.  HIV is a horrible, horrible fucking thing, and the fact that it robs you of your life is only the tip of the iceberg.  

I am at a loss for words.  I hope that you are seeing a counselor (or plan to seek help from one soon) so that you can exorcise these demons.  I can understand that your being recently diagnosed has a great influence upon these feelings, but everything you have expressed in this paragraph is not healthy and you will not be able to move on if you keep feeding into this line of thinking.  
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline jkinatl2

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,007
  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2010, 12:27:00 PM »
More often than not, I wish it was 1986 so I could just fucking die in a few years and get it over with, instead I'm going to have to endure 40 more fucking years of this bullshit,not knowing whether there is anything down the road worth living for. 

Might I respectfully suggest that you keep in mind that many of us were actually alive and saw the hell visited upon our parents, siblings, partners and friends? And that statements like that, while venting, are abhorrent and insulting and pretty much fucked up beyond my ability to articulate.

Get into counseling. And get far away from this idiot you call your boyfriend.

But I will agree with you on one point, I would cheerfully thank you if you changed places with Christine, Kate, Tim, Lisa, or any of the other real and good people we lost this past year alone. Sadly, that is not how the world works.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Hellraiser

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,136
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2010, 12:47:31 PM »
Jesus Christ that single sentence was the pinnacle of bad judgment in posting.  What the hell were you thinking?  That was the single most ignorant statement I've read on these forums and I've read (and posted) a lot of them.

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2010, 01:12:36 PM »
Jesus Christ that single sentence was the pinnacle of bad judgment in posting.  What the hell were you thinking?  That was the single most ignorant statement I've read on these forums and I've read (and posted) a lot of them.

And pray tell which single sentence are you referring to?
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Grasshopper

  • Member
  • Posts: 451
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2010, 01:14:07 PM »
Jesus Christ that single sentence was the pinnacle of bad judgment in posting.  What the hell were you thinking?  That was the single most ignorant statement I've read on these forums and I've read (and posted) a lot of them.

Why omit the preceding sentence ? " Socially, I'm as good as a pariah.  I can't commit suicide, but I pray for some random accident.  "   ?

You are pulling his posting out of perspective....better quote the entire paragraph No. 3)     

;-)
« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 01:17:10 PM by Grasshopper »

Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,782
  • Smart ass faggot ©
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2010, 01:14:23 PM »
Jesus Christ that single sentence was the pinnacle of bad judgment in posting.  What the hell were you thinking?  That was the single most ignorant statement I've read on these forums and I've read (and posted) a lot of them.

Might I respectfully suggest that you keep in mind that many of us were actually alive and saw the hell visited upon our parents, siblings, partners and friends? And that statements like that, while venting, are abhorrent and insulting and pretty much fucked up beyond my ability to articulate.

Get into counseling. And get far away from this idiot you call your boyfriend.

But I will agree with you on one point, I would cheerfully thank you if you changed places with Christine, Kate, Tim, Lisa, or any of the other real and good people we lost this past year alone. Sadly, that is not how the world works.


Not only was it ignorant, it was hurtful, offensive, insensitive, cruel, disgusting.  Never mind the fact that most (if not all) of us have lost someone to this shit and we wish we could have them around even if only for just one day.  Never mind what some members have been fighting for years, their bodies and minds impacted by both the virus and the meds.  Never mind our families and loved ones who have at some point or another gone through hell thanks to this.  Never mind more than 30 million people whom I never met but for whom I'd give anything so that they were still in this world LIVING.

Selfish. That's the one word that defines what was said in that paragraph. WTF, indeed.

Again, get some help.  And please think again in the future before you express garbage like that around us.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2010, 01:16:11 PM by Rev. Moon »
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline Joe K

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3,503
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2010, 01:16:57 PM »
Hey Bryan,

Whether you realize it or not, you are obviously quick to judge someone or something, even when you have no sound basis for such judgment. Being recently infected is very hard and it is normal to have questions and concerns, however, when you permit yourself to judge others, without having all the facts, you are being unfair to both yourself and the person you are judging. I believe that you must accept everyone, as they choose to present themselves and let their thoughts, words and deeds provide a foundation for how I view them. As for groups or actions, that I have no experience with, I try to remain open to all views, so I can make an informed decision.

Generalizing things, or disparaging an entire group, based on what YOU believe is reality, is very unhealthy and ego-centric. I encourage you to learn how to seek comment on your questions or beliefs, without the need to denigrate others, just because you believe that what they are doing is wrong. You know no such thing, about any group in general and if you do this, in your personal life, do not be surprised if people pull away. From my experience, given the chance, most people will rise above any expectations you may have for them, but only if they get to start with a clean slate. I urge you to stop seeing the world through judgmental eyes, as it will forever cloud your view and enjoyment of the world we share.

Offline Joe K

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3,503
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2010, 01:26:55 PM »
Hey all,

As much as I hate to double post, I think this time warrants violating protocol. I am going to ask that you back off on wtfimpoz, because while his choice of words sucked, the emotions they describe are very real. WTF, I urge you to get some help and get it now. I know depression and that feeling that the only way to get the relief you seek is to stop feeling. I know the feeling when all your energy is gone, your emotions depleted and you simply want the "pain" to stop. I also know that these are not healthy feelings and you must take immediate action, or I fear for your safety.

I don't think this is the time, nor place to castigate you over your poor choice of words. I understand what you meant and I know that a part of you knows you need help, otherwise you would not come back here and keep posting. It's my hope, that if you can talk with a professional, you can start to sort out your feelings. This is not the first time you have made incendiary comments here and without some help, my guess is, it won't be your last.

You can get past this, just not alone. Please do not wait, until it becomes too late.

Offline David_CA

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,246
  • Joined: March 2006
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2010, 01:27:23 PM »
I think some Klonopin is in order here!   ;)

First, we all found out we were HIV+ in different ways, but likely most of us went through the same feelings of worthlessness, fear of dying, fear of being alone, whatever.  Over time, most / many of us have come to accept that we have a disease.  It's not like most other diseases in that it carries a HUGE burden - stigma.  Of course, we still deal with this disease and it's physical, mental, and social obstacles on a daily basis, but what else is there to do?

Speaking from personal experience, and I am not denigrating anybody else's experiences at all, but my life is at least as good as it was pre-HIV.  There's a whole world of difference between being diagnoses in 1986 and 2006 (when I was diagnosed).  Assuming one has access to treatment, we now have life to look forward to vs a fairly certain death regardless of treatment.  Can life  be good after an HIV diagnosis?  It can.  It is for me despite having had PCP pneumonia and dealing with permanently reduced lung capacity... yeah, I'm reminded that I have AIDS everytime I do something that requires any sort of exertion.  

As for superinfection... I've yet to see reliable sources indicating that this is a realistic risk for it to bother me too much.  I'm on meds, and if I have unprotected sex with a guy on meds, well, I like to think of it as we're both on PEP and PREP.  Honestly, if superinfection was occurring as often as some people think, wouldn't we see more cases of it?  

For me, personally, my life is better since my HIV diagnosis.  I don't necessarily mean that my health is better, though I do take better care of myself now.  I just feel that I have a better outlook on most things now, am more compassionate, and certainly have a greater appreciation for what is good in my life.  I'm also not going to lie and say that sex isn't better for me now, because it is... not so much because of HIV, but because I don't worry about becoming infected.  For me, unprotected sex with another HIV+ man is the hottest, most enjoyable sex I've ever had.  

I'd change my HIV status in a second given the option, but I wouldn't want to give up the positive things that have come into my life because of it.  You may not be able to make your life with HIV good, but depending on your attitude, actions, and situation, you can definitely make it bad.
 
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Joe K

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3,503
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2010, 01:35:41 PM »
I think some Klonopin is in order here!   ;)

No, what is in order, is you having some respect for those of us who suffer from mental health issues. Rather than reading the posts as some type of insults, I could read nothing but pain and having personally experienced said pain, I knew he needs someone to extend a hand, not an insult.

I am incredibly offended that you post such a thing, as if treating my depression was as simple as taking a pill. Or worse yet, that the poster only has bad intentions, instead of the possibility that he doesn't know how, or is ashamed to ask for help.

I really expected better of you.

Offline David_CA

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,246
  • Joined: March 2006
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2010, 01:43:50 PM »
Joe, step off your pedestal and realize that this post is NOT ABOUT YOU.  I did not quote you in my previous post, as you can tell.  I was referring to the backlash that the OP was receiving, and my post (other than the part about the Klonopin) was for the OP.  I don't know squat about your depression other than what you've posted in these forums, nor would I imply that Klonopin was a solution for it.  I think you need to read the last line below again... " I really expected better of you."  Yes, you should.  Next time, how about giving me the benefit of a doubt or just ASK?  Remember, it's not all about you.  In other words, I was saying 'relax' (which is what Klonopin does for me). 


No, what is in order, is you having some respect for those of us who suffer from mental health issues. Rather than reading the posts as some type of insults, I could read nothing but pain and having personally experienced said pain, I knew he needs someone to extend a hand, not an insult.

I am incredibly offended that you post such a thing, as if treating my depression was as simple as taking a pill. Or worse yet, that the poster only has bad intentions, instead of the possibility that he doesn't know how, or is ashamed to ask for help.

I really expected better of you.
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Grasshopper

  • Member
  • Posts: 451
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2010, 01:44:03 PM »
Rather than reading the posts as some type of insults, I could read nothing but pain

I agree, tried to say something similar earlier (perhaps way too subtle).

Offline jkinatl2

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,007
  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2010, 02:02:49 PM »
Hey all,


I don't think this is the time, nor place to castigate you over your poor choice of words.

Joe, I respectfully disagree. This is why I rarely read or post in the Just Infected forum. I understand that people have a process to go through, and often that includes inappropriate venting. I would not dream of writing about m own health experiences in Just Infected, as it would no doubt scare, horrify, or further depress people who need the particular style of interaction that forum was created to serve.

THIS forum, however, is LIVING with HIV. And until someone is prepared to at least try to do that, I suggest that staying within the confines of JUST INFECTED might garner a more positive interaction.

So I think it was possibly exactly the "time," but certainly not the place for such commentary. And I stand by what I said. There is plenty of room in AM for newly diagnosed venting, for discussions about sex, for practical discourse about lab work, meds, and doctors. For stigma, for memorializing the dead, and for issues specific to LT survivors and women. Posting in an inappropriate place garners responses the OP might not have intended, not wanted to receive.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,699
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2010, 02:07:17 PM »


  This is some sad stuff right here.  
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Hellraiser

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,136
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2010, 02:57:06 PM »
To answer your question Ann

More often than not, I wish it was 1986 so I could just fucking die in a few years and get it over with, instead I'm going to have to endure 40 more fucking years of this bullshit


Offline Joe K

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3,503
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2010, 04:32:16 PM »
David, you are right, I over reacted and I apologize for directing my comments at you, as opposed to in general. My whole issue here rests with a person, coming here, whether the right forum or not and blatantly posting in such as fashion, that they are screaming for help. We talk so much about stigma and acceptance and it saddens me, when people insist on reading the worse into a post.

I once complained about a poster, their presence, I felt, was an absolute slap in the face of this forum and all that we believe. I tongue lashed the poster in words and rallied for them to be banned. Then I received a PM from a very good friend here, who suggested to me that maybe, if we could keep communications with this poster, that eventually we may reach them. I feel the same with many new posters, because to them, being poz, isn't just another language, it's a whole different reality. And when I remember how hard it was for me to ask for help, I feel an obligation to cut some folks slack, especially when their posting history is not solely one of someone seeking to disrupt the forum.

I am second to none, when it comes to remembering our fallen, however, I know that my friends, would never want me to turn someone away, just because they don't use the right words. I am here to support folks and sometimes that involves looking past provocative behavior, to see what is driving that behavior. What it does not involve, is my passing unfair judgments and for that, I apologize.

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,699
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2010, 04:52:39 PM »


   I totally agree with you Joe, but....

   The problem I have with the OP is his total lack of regard for other members who post on the forums.  It becomes a balance of sorts, and the question is: where do you draw the line? 

THIS forum, however, is LIVING with HIV. And until someone is prepared to at least try to do that, I suggest that staying within the confines of JUST INFECTED might garner a more positive interaction.

So I think it was possibly exactly the "time," but certainly not the place for such commentary. And I stand by what I said. There is plenty of room in AM for newly diagnosed venting, for discussions about sex, for practical discourse about lab work, meds, and doctors. For stigma, for memorializing the dead, and for issues specific to LT survivors and women. Posting in an inappropriate place garners responses the OP might not have intended, not wanted to receive.



I am so with you..
   

   
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline David_CA

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,246
  • Joined: March 2006
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2010, 04:54:52 PM »
No problem, Joe.  I probably should have been more specific as to whom I was addressing, but it was actually a whole bunch of folks...  When I started my post, your two weren't there, and I didn't read yours to see if my response would be considered directed at you. 
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,254
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2010, 05:06:27 PM »
Bryan, young man, just go out and fall in love or have wild sex and its really simple, like leatherman says. Seems like you have decided that it is not cool if you are HIV+ to put HIV- people at risk.   So just follow that rule for yourself.  Have safe sex unless you have discussed both being positive.

With time you'll figure out a rule that makes sense for you for + and + sex. Its a muddy issue, reinfection, superinfection, etc etc.  Maybe you need some more time before you can identify fears, facts, and desires, and make the right decision.
 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Florida69

  • Member
  • Posts: 428
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2010, 05:19:29 PM »
Bryan, I am sure you have heard that knowledge is power, and we all have control of our own destiny.  I have been positive for just over 4 years now, I was in a relationship when I found out my status, and was lucky enough to be able to continue with that relationship until it ran its course last year. Although, I was positive he was negative, and with the knowledge of my status it did not change our sexual behaviors, in fact sometimes I will even say that it enhanced it because we had some fun with different types of condoms some where colored, flavored, ribbed, etc.. I have never really been the one to have several partners at once.  I have been an advocate of safe sex, but things still happen in which we have no control.  Condoms break and people are unsure of their status.  The best thing to do is have the conversation regarding your status with your partner, and take it from there.  Now that I am single, I will be honest and say that I currently have two sex partners, one is positive and one is negative.  Yes, before judgment begins to fly, they do know about each other.  I am not attached to either of them and like them both as individuals.  I am just not ready to marry anyone yet, and not really sure what it is that I want next out of life.  I do know in order for me to take on an actual boyfriend, he will have to be an equal which to me means he will have to be independent and self reliant.  The negative fella and I use protection and I have to tell you that the whole experience is really hot.  The positive guy is pretty incredible and we have done things without a condom that I have not done since my last husband of over 8 years ago.  If I had to choose right now, I can tell you that I would not be able, I do know that I can not have everything that I want, but I really don’t have that many wants or needs right now. 

Back to the topic, it takes some time before you feel normal once you are diagnosed as being HIV positive.  You have to adjust to this change and perhaps even morn the life that you once had.  I have been exactly where you are considering super infection, and infecting a negative partner, and questioning the life style of others.  You can only be responsible and have control of your own self.  Things are never really the same, but keep in mind that we all change and grow, HIV is only one small part of me, it does not define me.  Everyone moves at a different pace and you have a lot of emotions and feelings that you are going to have to deal with at some point or another in order to move to the next step.  None of it is going to be easy; in fact you may find yourself contemplating a whole list of dubious ideas.  The one thing that you can remember is that you are not alone, this disease has affected more than 33 million people world wide, and your struggle may seem personal, we all have to face our demons and learn to live our changed lives.  You have a great support system here, and have gotten some really good responses, so my advice is to talk to your medical professional and consider getting a psychologist who without bias can give you personally the correct information and perhaps medication that will best help you move forward and continue to be productive.   When I was a new member here, the advice that a moderator gave me was to be careful in what you post, that has been true of any web site.  I do wish you well and hope that you remember the only thing that has changed is that you found out you have a virus, there is no cure, but there is a remarkable treatment and a course of action.  I want to end with this saying that sits on my dresser at home.  Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a dream, today is what counts.  You know your history, and you know what you have to do for yourself to make today count, because no one really knows if tomorrow will be a reality.   Remember that happiness is a means of travel not a destination.  Good luck, and take care, D
Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.
Calvin Coolidge

Offline bmancanfly

  • Member
  • Posts: 554
  • Medicare For All !
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2010, 05:32:20 PM »

I wish it was 1986 so I could just fucking die in a few years and get it over with, instead I'm going to have to endure 40 more fucking years of this bullshit,not knowing whether there is anything down the road worth living for. 

Or,  you could change the way you think, and enjoy the next 40 years.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."

 Bertrand Russell

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2010, 05:41:37 PM »
I am sooo lost?..lol
 :-\

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,205
  • Ninja Please
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2010, 06:23:27 PM »
I am sooo lost?..lol
 :-\


Dunno why. I would think this thread has gone in precisely the direction you intended.

MtD

Offline max123

  • Member
  • Posts: 377
  • Carpe Diem
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2010, 06:35:21 PM »
<enters soft drum roll>
1/86 - 6/08 (annually): neg elisa
7/09: pos elisa/pos wb
8/09: cd4 560, cd4% 35, vl 13,050
12/09: cd4 568, cd4% 33, vl 2,690
4/10: cd4 557, cd4% 29.3, vl 6,440
7/10: cd4 562, cd4% 29.6, vl 3,780

Offline elf

  • Member
  • Posts: 596
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2010, 09:00:32 PM »
Bryan don't be too hard on yourself.
You still have the right to love and to have sex ;)
The worst thing you can do to yourself is this avoiding attitude,
you're HIV+ and that's it.
In the worst case, you can treat it like a little (tho' a bitter) secret,
no one needs to know,
you're not obliged to tell anyone about yourself.

I've just read an article in a local newspaper about a man that has been positive for 20 years, who basically lives like a plant (he isolated himself from the world and dedicated to Jesus Christ)...

I've decided not to tell anyone anymore (most people I told about my status left me).
I don't need/like rejection.

In order to keep my mind (and body) in control I think of myself as a completely normal person (the only difference being 5 pills I take every day at 6. p.m.). I haven't loved or had sex in 2 years (since my diagnosis) but it's just because I'm not ready yet.

;)
Let's have a Kiki!

Offline dvinemstre

  • Member
  • Posts: 96
  • hot in carolina
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #37 on: August 03, 2010, 12:55:35 AM »
wow, what a thread. OK so the + /- discordant partner thing is not just a "gay" issue. For me, rather than focusing on who is doing what with whom, and unless you SEE it you can only know what they say...I would commend to you to find a good counselor who works with HIV+ persons in your area. I also want to say I see a fair amount of posts on here about the neg partner being flipped out, not wanting sex with Poz partner, etc. now, it may be a stretch, but hey, maybe they are pissed off cause you have it and they didn't give it to you and who have you been with, etc. People are funny that way. So, I think eahc person has to grow into their own way of being in the word sexually whether hiv+ OR hiv-. The thing I find that flips soooooo many straight men out when I discuss it with them is they would have GLADLY broken my back with no protection at all and NEVER having asked and their risky behavior scares the hell out of them. Once I disclose (and at this point its before we meet if online or before we touch in person) people tend to fall into a few basic categories 1) ignorant, want to learn, want to be safe, 2) ignorant, think I'm dying and run in the other direction - ignorance being blissful and all (so why arent there WAY more blissed out people) 3) educated, thought about it, not interested, 4) educated, thought about it, want to play and be safe. I have found over the last 3 years that I have different guidelines for different encounters. I do agree with the person who posted that this if a spot for living with and sex is certainly in that realm. I DO also think, however, that four months after diagnosis one is still in the adjustment phase at BEST. ok so thanks everyone for reading and btw, Klonipine is for anxiety...not depression, so David, pass me one please, hehe

Offline xyahka

  • Member
  • Posts: 778
  • Dance together!! aha!! aha!! I like it!!
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #38 on: August 03, 2010, 01:25:36 AM »
WTF
I am sooo lost?..lol
 :-\


Maybe.

Still with it, you should respect and keep in mind other's feelings while interacting here.

J

13/03/07 1er diagnóstico /Peso: 79kg
19/04/07 CD4: 494 /CViral: ?? /Peso: 80kg
19/07/07 CD4: 659 /CViral: ?? /Peso: 79.5kg
06/03/08 CD4: 573 (después de meses muy deprimido) /CViral: ?? /Peso: 79kg
17/09/08 CD4: ?? /CViral: ?? /Peso: 84Kg
06/02/09 CD4: ?? /CViral: ?? /Peso: 85Kg /HCV: Neg /HBV: Neg.
07/03/09 CD4: ?? /CViral: ?? /Peso: 87Kg / Gym 3días/semana y Natación 2días/semana.
12/05/09 CD4: 470 /Cviral: ?? /Peso: 87Kg.
08/07/09 CD4: ? /CViral: ? /Peso: 77Kg.
09/12/09 CD4: 510 /CViral: ? /Peso: 78kg. No medicinas aún
10/01/10 CD4: ? /CViral: ? /Peso: 76Kg.
15/05/10 CD4: 320 /CViral: ? /Peso: 76Kg.
01/02/11 CD4: 291 /CViral: ? /Peso: 78kg.
05/05/11 CD4: 366 /CViral: ? /Peso: 78kg.
27/07/11 CD4: 255 /CViral: 138000 /Peso: 78kg.

Disfrutando y aceptando una nueva vida...

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 23,901
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #39 on: August 03, 2010, 01:39:27 AM »
No, what is in order, is you having some respect for those of us who suffer from mental health issues. Rather than reading the posts as some type of insults, I could read nothing but pain and having personally experienced said pain, I knew he needs someone to extend a hand, not an insult.

I am incredibly offended that you post such a thing, as if treating my depression was as simple as taking a pill. Or worse yet, that the poster only has bad intentions, instead of the possibility that he doesn't know how, or is ashamed to ask for help.

I really expected better of you.

Benzos can be very helpful for some patients as you well know, in conjunction with proper CBT from a psychologist.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline tednlou2

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,765
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #40 on: August 03, 2010, 01:54:36 AM »
oh!
And do you remember that horrible,lost,sad,shocked,crushed,i can't believe it, Im going to dye feeling you had when you were told that you are positive?
How could you (even if the other person wants it) have unprotected sex with someone who is negative?


I've wondered whether there is some hector projector going on here.  I mean that will all due respect.  I know I use to go out to bars and see guys hooking up in the dark room and think how disgusting they were and thought they probably all had AIDS.  I felt since I was such "an innocent guy with very few sex partners" that I was immune to HIV.  Boy was I wrong and those guys in the dark room are probably all still negative for all I know.  

My partner is neg and insists on performing oral sex on me.  He knows it is a very, very low risk.  I often wonder whether I should let him even if he wants to do it.  If by some small chance I infected him that way, I would feel horrible and he could be a fast progressor.  I have to decide what is moral for me.  I wouldn't judge others who disclose and make adult choices.  Now, not disclosing and having unprotected sex is another debate.

I'm not sure how the virus found you.  Did someone lie to you about their status?  Did you consent to having sex with someone poz?  Maybe you've mentioned it before and I need to read your posts.  Like others have said, I think you're venting now which is understandable.  When I first came here, I posted in the LTS forum.  I didn't know they wanted a space for themselves.  When I was told about it, I had a kinda bad reaction.  Not Mel Gibson bad.  I felt I was being rejected already in an HIV forum.  I was just emotionally stressed at that time.  

Offline Realist

  • Member
  • Posts: 162
    • NotDownNotOut's Blog
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #41 on: August 03, 2010, 11:56:20 AM »
I am sooo lost?..lol
 :-\


Dunno why. I would think this thread has gone in precisely the direction you intended.

MtD

Couldn't agree more. Only thing missing from this thread compared to the one that was the subject of the last timeout is the word slut. Doesn't seem to me that the sentiment has changed

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=33596.msg415864#msg415864
23/02/10 Tests confirmed
25/02/10 13100 220 24%
12/03/10 19800 372 19%
26/03/10 Atripla
30/04/10 58 286 23%
28/05/10 45 222 21%
25/06/10 UD 301 23%
24/09/10 UD 283 22%
01/12/10 UD 319 23%
11/03/11 UD 293 28%
10/06/11 UD 423 24%
23/08/11 UD 389 26%
28/02/11 UD 315 34%

I blogged it all http://notdownnotout.blogspot.com

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #42 on: August 03, 2010, 06:21:35 PM »
 Only thing missing from this thread compared to the one that was the subject of the last timeout is the word slut. Doesn't seem to me that the sentiment has changed

yes there was alot of confusion in that other topic because i didnt know who to quote someone
i wasn't talking about the person who wrote the subject matter...but thats in the past and it's already red
as for this one...it s not..

Offline max123

  • Member
  • Posts: 377
  • Carpe Diem
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #43 on: August 03, 2010, 06:25:04 PM »
so bryan, how are your thoughts on what everyone has been advising you on...do you feel you're making progress? also, are you in any kind of counseling yet through your clinic, aso or provider?
1/86 - 6/08 (annually): neg elisa
7/09: pos elisa/pos wb
8/09: cd4 560, cd4% 35, vl 13,050
12/09: cd4 568, cd4% 33, vl 2,690
4/10: cd4 557, cd4% 29.3, vl 6,440
7/10: cd4 562, cd4% 29.6, vl 3,780

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #44 on: August 03, 2010, 06:30:57 PM »
There all spot on the be honest.
and no i have not (i don't want them to tell me im crazy)
i just try to find poz people around my area to talk to.
(this is hard as most of them are the "S" word and the others are just jaded and rude!)
but i have found one so far that seems to be a real person..

Offline max123

  • Member
  • Posts: 377
  • Carpe Diem
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #45 on: August 03, 2010, 06:45:44 PM »
well yeah, you've def gotten some good advice here. as far as counseling, no one is gonna tell you your crazy, so don't let that get in your way. getting a diagnosis is a stressful thing and thats how a counselor is gonna help you. they're there to help, not to point fingers. i would encourage you to do it...i have, and am reaping the benefits because of it. chatting on here or with local pozzies (whether they're str8 or gay really shouldn't matter to you cuz it doesn't matter to hiv), isn't professional help. these other things are simply a secondary means of support, information and socialization. because of your recent diagnosis, you need more than that in your life right now. has your doc not suggested this to you?
1/86 - 6/08 (annually): neg elisa
7/09: pos elisa/pos wb
8/09: cd4 560, cd4% 35, vl 13,050
12/09: cd4 568, cd4% 33, vl 2,690
4/10: cd4 557, cd4% 29.3, vl 6,440
7/10: cd4 562, cd4% 29.6, vl 3,780

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,205
  • Ninja Please
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #46 on: August 03, 2010, 07:05:24 PM »
There all spot on the be honest.
and no i have not (i don't want them to tell me im crazy)
i just try to find poz people around my area to talk to.
(this is hard as most of them are the "S" word and the others are just jaded and rude!)
but i have found one so far that seems to be a real person..

You know honey, I find it a little more than passing strange that all the poz people in your area are assholes and you're the only saint.

Could it be that they (all of them!) aren't jaded and rude but rather the problem rests with you? A cursory reading of your post history here would suggest as much.

MtD

Offline max123

  • Member
  • Posts: 377
  • Carpe Diem
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2010, 08:08:32 PM »
<crescendo>
1/86 - 6/08 (annually): neg elisa
7/09: pos elisa/pos wb
8/09: cd4 560, cd4% 35, vl 13,050
12/09: cd4 568, cd4% 33, vl 2,690
4/10: cd4 557, cd4% 29.3, vl 6,440
7/10: cd4 562, cd4% 29.6, vl 3,780

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #48 on: August 03, 2010, 08:18:20 PM »
you're the only saint.
im far from a "saint" i am what we call human we all have flaws..


Could it be that they (all of them!) aren't jaded and rude but rather the problem rests with you? A cursory reading of your post history here would suggest as much.

and yes i am a lil jaded and rude ( i just found out)
but these people have known for years and there still that way ..and most the poz people love me!(a lil to much if you know what i mean) hahaha.
im sure ppl on here think im an ass lol and that is because my posts but i am the way i am and i will never change just as you will never change  i have kinda made a bad name for myself on here and i hope over time it will fade

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #49 on: August 03, 2010, 08:23:56 PM »
well yeah, you've def gotten some good advice here. as far as counseling, no one is gonna tell you your crazy, so don't let that get in your way. getting a diagnosis is a stressful thing and thats how a counselor is gonna help you. they're there to help, not to point fingers. i would encourage you to do it...i have, and am reaping the benefits because of it. chatting on here or with local pozzies (whether they're str8 or gay really shouldn't matter to you cuz it doesn't matter to hiv), isn't professional help. these other things are simply a secondary means of support, information and socialization. because of your recent diagnosis, you need more than that in your life right now. has your doc not suggested this to you?

yes they have i just haven't got to it yet because i don't want to do it
like i dont need someone else to tell me its okay i have HIV i know that myself.
im just now starting to realize im okay, this dont change who i am as a person, and i will be here 1 yr 4 yrs 15 yrs from now and so one...

Offline max123

  • Member
  • Posts: 377
  • Carpe Diem
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #50 on: August 03, 2010, 08:36:50 PM »
yes they have i just haven't got to it yet because i don't want to do it
like i dont need someone else to tell me its okay i have HIV i know that myself.
im just now starting to realize im okay, this dont change who i am as a person, and i will be here 1 yr 4 yrs 15 yrs from now and so one...
wow, well props to you man...it took me significantly longer to get comfortable in my new skin, in fact, i still am doing so. what's your secret?
1/86 - 6/08 (annually): neg elisa
7/09: pos elisa/pos wb
8/09: cd4 560, cd4% 35, vl 13,050
12/09: cd4 568, cd4% 33, vl 2,690
4/10: cd4 557, cd4% 29.3, vl 6,440
7/10: cd4 562, cd4% 29.6, vl 3,780

Offline leatherman

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,061
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #51 on: August 03, 2010, 09:10:19 PM »
i will be here 1 yr 4 yrs 15 yrs from now
now, don't limit yourself by taking such a negative view. ;D A bunch of members here have already hung around another 20-25 yrs and that was through some of the earliest years of this epidemic when the meds weren't as good as today's. You've got excellent numbers so far (cd4 513/viral load 204) and haven't had an OI. Depending on the trend of your next few lab results (over maybe the next year's worth of time), you may still be a long way from starting meds. If I were you I wouldn't be thinking short-term like 1 or 4 yrs but more like 30-40 yrs.  ;)

yes they have i just haven't got to it yet because i don't want to do it
like i dont need someone else to tell me its okay i have HIV i know that myself.
if you don't want to speak to a counselor about personal issues, might I suggest you spend some time reading through the excellent Lessons on this site to learn more about HIV, the treatments, and the prognosis. There's nearly 30 yrs  worth of knowledge accrued about this virus and everything related to it

And some things are still changing today. For example, in your OP you spoke about the fairly new topics of super-infection and re-infection. Right now, very little data has been studied yet and more information is yet to be learned about these issues. As I mentioned super-infection seems to be more of an issue of poz people with viral loads infecting each other and not poz people with undetectable viral loads infecting each other. Re-infection seems to also be rare as HIV treatment is in itself PREP/PEP, so this too might be untreated people (HIV poz people not on meds, not performing safe sex, or perhaps not even knowing that they are poz until too late) who are passing infections along to other untreated people.

Right now, you are in a unique position of knowing you are positive, with good lab numbers and not on medication. So as an untreated person, you may be interested in understanding these issues more, as they may affect you more, than say some of the people whom you have been talking too who are probably on medication and less likely to pass any infection (because of their low viral load) if they are having poz/poz bareback sex.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Joe K

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3,503
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #52 on: August 03, 2010, 09:27:57 PM »
im sure ppl on here think im an ass lol and that is because my posts but i am the way i am and i will never change just as you will never change...

Sorry Bryan, but you are wrong about people changing. Most of us here have undergone profound changes since becoming poz, learning skills and adapting to the demands of our disease. Now that I have read your other posts, I think you are just an angry guy, with an axe to grind and so go at it! It's obvious you know everything, nobody could ever help you, so why come here? Why do you care what we think, when you can never change. Sounds like a big waste of our time...

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,205
  • Ninja Please
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #53 on: August 03, 2010, 09:58:26 PM »
im far from a "saint" i am what we call human we all have flaws..

I know what you are.

MtD

Offline max123

  • Member
  • Posts: 377
  • Carpe Diem
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #54 on: August 03, 2010, 10:55:46 PM »
<andante>
1/86 - 6/08 (annually): neg elisa
7/09: pos elisa/pos wb
8/09: cd4 560, cd4% 35, vl 13,050
12/09: cd4 568, cd4% 33, vl 2,690
4/10: cd4 557, cd4% 29.3, vl 6,440
7/10: cd4 562, cd4% 29.6, vl 3,780

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #55 on: August 04, 2010, 04:18:09 AM »
As I mentioned super-infection seems to be more of an issue of poz people with viral loads infecting each other and not poz people with undetectable viral loads infecting each other. Re-infection seems to also be rare as HIV treatment is in itself PREP/PEP, so this too might be untreated people (HIV poz people not on meds, not performing safe sex, or perhaps not even knowing that they are poz until too late) who are passing infections along to other untreated people.

Superinfection and reinfection are two terms used to describe the same thing.

The "super" in superinfection is super as in superimposed - one on top of the other - not as in super-duper.

Superinfection means having one strain of the virus on top of the other, in other words, being reinfected with another strain.

As a phenomenon, it's pretty rare whether you call it superinfection or reinfection.


edited to fix crappy spelling
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 04:25:19 AM by Ann »
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #56 on: August 04, 2010, 04:46:06 AM »
wow, well props to you man...it took me significantly longer to get comfortable in my new skin, in fact, i still am doing so. what's your secret?

I don't know?
The people that i talk to i guess,there like "Oh..That's cool, it don't change you."
like most of the people i talk to (that are negative) don't seem to mind that i am positive.
At first i found that very strange! There has been like "maybe" two or three people that have stopped talking to me because of it.



what is....PREP/PEP..?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 04:47:53 AM by bryan21 »

Offline max123

  • Member
  • Posts: 377
  • Carpe Diem
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #57 on: August 04, 2010, 08:04:14 AM »
I don't know?
The people that i talk to i guess,there like "Oh..That's cool, it don't change you."
like most of the people i talk to (that are negative) don't seem to mind that i am positive.
At first i found that very strange! There has been like "maybe" two or three people that have stopped talking to me because of it.



what is....PREP/PEP..?

interesting take on it. imo while hiv shouldn't control you nor define you, it does change you...not so much in who you are (as a person), but more so in what you do and how you do it. for me, it's the most challenging thing i've ever been faced with. that's great that you've been so supported by the majority of those that you've told of your status. nonetheless, since you're doing so well, meeting with a counselor should be a drop in the bucket for you, so why not just do it to make sure your not missing anything?

do a prep/pep search...there's alot of info right on here
1/86 - 6/08 (annually): neg elisa
7/09: pos elisa/pos wb
8/09: cd4 560, cd4% 35, vl 13,050
12/09: cd4 568, cd4% 33, vl 2,690
4/10: cd4 557, cd4% 29.3, vl 6,440
7/10: cd4 562, cd4% 29.6, vl 3,780

Offline hotpuppy

  • Member
  • Posts: 555
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #58 on: August 04, 2010, 08:52:01 AM »
Wow,  seems like everytime I get busy with something and leave the forums for a few days all hell breaks loose in a thread.

Bryan.  Welcome back.  I'm glad to see you returned and are participating.  One of the most valuable things I do in dealing with my HIV is to question what others tell me and only accept what I agree with and to rigorously inspect what I disagree with.  I believe you are doing this.

With regards to bareback sex and HIV and superinfection... you are correct, observations do not match rhetoric and threats.  i.e. the "if you have unprotected poz to poz sex you will get it again" does not synch with the observed reality in the poz gay community.

I tend to look at safer sex like a pool party.  Some people sit out completely and only dream about being in the water.  Some people get in, but don't stay long.  Others get in, but only mingle with a few people.  Others hop on a toy and float into the middle of the crowd.  Where are you comfortable?  That's the only place that matters.


I personally have not found any conclusive cause and effect evidence that I believe is credible that supports a real and present danger risk level for superinfection.  the handful of isolated cases involve vastly higher risk rates. 
Don't obsess over the wrong things.  Life isn't about your numbers, it isn't about this forum, it isn't about someone's opinion.  It's about getting out there and enjoying it.   I am a person with HIV - not the other way around.

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,254
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #59 on: August 04, 2010, 09:05:26 AM »
The people that i talk to i guess,there like "Oh..That's cool, it don't change you."
like most of the people i talk to (that are negative) don't seem to mind that i am positive.
At first i found that very strange! There has been like "maybe" two or three people that have stopped talking to me because of it.

When you were HIV-, weren't you be "cool" with some friend telling you he was HIV+
I bet, probably you were.

Course it is strange when it personally affects you.  I have appreciated both reactions:  1) people who hear my news and stay pretty cool, just want to hear that I'm OK, or just say I hear there is a pill and its no problem.  and 2) people who get concerned and ask questions cause of the seriousness of HIV.  I think we need both reactions.  Cause the reality of living with HIV includes both emotions.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 09:12:10 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline hotpuppy

  • Member
  • Posts: 555
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #60 on: August 04, 2010, 09:23:06 AM »
I actually made  a half hearted attempt at stupid crazy sex this evening.  No luck, which made everything worse.  It was because I felt so bad about everything, i just wanted to feel sexy, to feel worthy, and frankly, the costs seemed like benefits.  My infection is slowly peeling back the layers of my life, day by day and week by week.  The future is more uncertain now than ever, but I'm supposed to keep hacking through the daily grind like I give a shit.  My partner is afraid to be in the same room with me and every time he gets the sniffles he is convinced he's gotten my virus, despite us NOT having had sex.  I told him he was being ridiculous, and he actually told me I needed to "see it from his perspective".  See WHAT from his perspective?  That he's concerned the disease is fucking airborn?  Its not like my dating options are that good if he leaves me either:  I scanned poz personals.  Of the ten guys on it, I think, maybe, one was within a decade of my age.  Paranoia has completely consumed me.  I live in constant fear that I'll be "found out".  Socially, I'm as good as a pariah.  I can't commit suicide, but I pray for some random accident.  More often than not, I wish it was 1986 so I could just fucking die in a few years and get it over with, instead I'm going to have to endure 40 more fucking years of this bullshit,not knowing whether there is anything down the road worth living for.  Even the fucking lepers of yesterday got to live amongst themselves and experience a degree of normalcy in that.  HIV is a horrible, horrible fucking thing, and the fact that it robs you of your life is only the tip of the iceberg.  Speeding up one's demise with the joys of sex may seem reasonable to someone who hasn't personally seen what the virus can do.  Not saying this is a good idea of course, but "sex as suicide" could be a rational cause for this lack of concern.

Try to be more sensitive... some of these jaded old bitches have open wounds from losing all of their friends, lovers, and family in the 1980's.  What you said is essentially on par with walking into a holocaust survivors meeting and reminiscing about the good old nazi days..... Your opinion and point of view at the moment from the low spot you are in may be valid, but it caused alot of people to look down and feel hurt in remembering the hell they went through.

I'm not dissing your opinion.  I UNDERSTAND that you are hurt, pissed off, and need to get it off your chest.  Just please try not to hurt others in the process.  I can't fathom what it would be like to lose EVERY FUCKING FRIEND to HIV.  I would be incredibly bitter, jaded, and pissed off about it.

First off, they did it and there is something to be learned from observiing.  One of the most valuable things you can learn from someone who is 80 is what they did to make it to 80 when many others died at 50 or 60.


Now, the real issue is that your boyfriend is doing what I call "neg self-centered bull shit."  I suspected the halo would wear off eventually when aint-getting-nooky-itis set in.  I just didn't want to tell you it was coming because you need to work out your relationship issues with a minimum of outside "expertise" from the forums.  It's sort of like the Star Trek ethic that we should interfere in foreign worlds.....

1.  You are the one at risk, not him.  Period.  End of fucking discussion.  He can give you any number of colds, bugs, and other things which are hard to get rid of and make you sick for weeks on end.  

2.  What's the point of a relationship where you don't have sex?  Is it healthy for either of you?  A relationship is a social contract in which each of you provides and receives things you need.  Namely, love, compassion, passion, sex, and companionship.  When one or more of these is not being provided in one or both directions I think it's reasonable to sit down and evaluate the situation.  There are a few reasonable solutions: Proceed with corrective activity, continue and tolerate the shortage, part ways and move on.  While I know it's a tad cold for some people, this is essentially what goes on and what your choices are.  There is a real possibility that your bf will alienate you and never overcome his phobia to HIV.  In which case you can suffer or move on.

3. HIV doesn't care who you are...... really.  It exploits denial and stress....both of which go hand in hand.  You have a choice on nearly everything..... and I mean everything.  Every interaction, action, or inaction can be broken down to a sort of blackjack move.  Hit, Hold, Bust, Win.  Take, Stay, Walk. Live.  The goal for me is to do more taking, staying, and winning and less walking or busting.  So if your boyfriend is putting out and you aren't putting out for him you can modify the relationship or you can tolerate the relationship.  the right choice is ultimately between the two of you.  I think grandma deserves a visit and you know what I'm referring to.  You are entitled to passionate sex with another man, relationship or not.  

4. Paranoia.  Let's disarm the spider for a moment.  What would happen if someone found out?  Are they going to catch it because you work next to them?  NO.  If you happen to be around some ignorant piece of shit don't get involved in their problem.  It's THEIR problem.  I don't have a tattoo, but I don't worry about others.  Now, when I got hurt and had to go to the ER I made sure each medical professional knew I was poz.  that's just the right thing to do in my opinion.  But the rest of the world can kiss my ass with regards to HIV.  It's none of their business and I can do damn near anything they can do.  

If someone does bring it up, turn the tables.   Role play for a moment:
your co-worker: Hey, I hear you have the butt flu, HIV?
Me: Excuse me? what are you talking about?
YCW: Gabby Gossipalot said you were poz girl.
Me: That's wierd, how the fuck would Gabby know?  Not like I'd sleep with her skank ass.  She's like Metro, anyone with 25 cents can get a ride.  Except that on Sundays everyone rides for free!  
YCW: So do you have it?
Me: Does it matter?  Not like we're here to fuck now are we?  Let's say I did..... I'm not planning to exchange bodily fluids with you and I sure hope you aren't planning to exchange them with me.  It wouldn't matter.  Let's say I didn't..... you'd just be spreading nasty gossip and I'm sure there is something you can do that adds to our bonus and paychecks besides worry about my sex life.

at this point your co worker will generally drop the subject and move on.  You could also turn the tables and ask if they are poz which puts them on the spot.  You can also play dramatic....

YCW: Hey I heard you are poz?
Me: Really, who said that?
YCW: Gabby Gossipalot was telling everyone in the breakroom.
Me: That's nice.....
ycw: So are you?
Me: Yea I am.  does it matter?
ycw: No, not really, how did you get it?
Me: Well, I don't know... I use condoms all the time and My BF does too.
ycw: Do you think your bf gave it to you?
me: Probably not... .but he's the only one I have unprotected sex with.
ycw: So what now?
me: Hey can I ask you a favor?
ycw: Sure, what do you need?
me: Well, doc says I have 4 months to live... so I need someone to take my cat (sniffle), I need a witness to my will, and I'm going to tell my parents tonite and I could really use someone neutral there (wipe your eye).
[at this point your coworker will nearly freak]
ycw: Really? I thought it was treatable.
me: Nah, my doc says I have a new strain ........
ycw: What?
me: No, I'm just yanking your chain for being nosy.  I'm doing fine and plan to outlive my cat.  I've told everyone I thought had a need to know, and apparently Gabby thought better of it..... bitch.
ycw: Oh ok {relieved}
me: Have you been tested lately?  (turn tables)

Your going to need to develop the skill of confronting someone over your HIV when they bring it up.  at least work through mentally how you would deal with it.

As for life..... like everything it's your choice how you handle it.  

I don't think you need pills... I do think you need to get laid and tell your bf to get with the program or get going on the road.  Love is a 2 way street and you need some traffic baby!
Don't obsess over the wrong things.  Life isn't about your numbers, it isn't about this forum, it isn't about someone's opinion.  It's about getting out there and enjoying it.   I am a person with HIV - not the other way around.

Offline hotpuppy

  • Member
  • Posts: 555
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #61 on: August 04, 2010, 09:25:12 AM »
I don't know?
The people that i talk to i guess,there like "Oh..That's cool, it don't change you."
like most of the people i talk to (that are negative) don't seem to mind that i am positive.
At first i found that very strange! There has been like "maybe" two or three people that have stopped talking to me because of it.



what is....PREP/PEP..?

Those are essentially correct..... it doesn't change you as a person, but it changes your level of concern for health matters and imposes some new rules.

PREP/PEP is Post Exposure Prophylaxis.... which basically is a way of trying to prevent the infection from taking... has to be started within 24 hours of exposure and continued for a few months.
Don't obsess over the wrong things.  Life isn't about your numbers, it isn't about this forum, it isn't about someone's opinion.  It's about getting out there and enjoying it.   I am a person with HIV - not the other way around.

Offline J.R.E.

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,099
  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #62 on: August 04, 2010, 09:50:24 AM »


PREP/PEP is Post Exposure Prophylaxis.... which basically is a way of trying to prevent the infection from taking... has to be started within 24 hours of exposure and continued for a few months.

Not to get off topic, but this needs to be corrected. Pep is started as soon as possible, ( as you have stated),  But it only goes for four weeks.  


http://www.aids.org/factsheets/156-treatment-after-exposure-to-hiv-pep.html



Ray
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 09:54:15 AM by J.R.E. »
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 6/4/14,  t-cells are at 423, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 13% 

  
 62 years young.

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #63 on: August 04, 2010, 10:02:49 AM »
PREP/PEP is Post Exposure Prophylaxis.... which basically is a way of trying to prevent the infection from taking... has to be started within 24 hours of exposure and continued for a few months.

Not quite.

PrEP is  pre-exposure prophylaxis, where hiv meds are taken before an exposure to hiv. An example of PrEP use is when a poz/neg couple want to conceive a baby the natural way.

PEP is post-exposure prophylaxis, where hiv meds are taken after an exposure. It must be started no later than 72 hours after exposure and it is taken for 28 days, not "a few  months".
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Granny60

  • Guest
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #64 on: August 04, 2010, 12:15:30 PM »
Be sure to have your doctor check with pharmacy before prescribing benzodiazapines. My husband takes Atripla and has to carry a warning card that says no medications in the class benzodiazapines  due to drug interactions that can  result in fatal reactions.  As to unprotected sex, we have met several poz friends since being diagnosed that have strains of HIV that are resistant to several medications. Actually so many that it makes us wonder why we did not have resistances.  A super infection of more than one strain can limit your options to treatment. We have a friend who was in ICU with pneumonia several times before the doctors finally found a med regimine to get his virus under control. Condoms are about as glamorous as a 400 lb  lady in shorts and t shirt soaked in sweat on a 104 degree humid day, and hard to find in a comfortable size & style,  but MUCH better than the alternative.

Offline Joe K

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3,503
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #65 on: August 04, 2010, 12:21:26 PM »
Try to be more sensitive... some of these jaded old bitches have open wounds from losing all of their friends, lovers, and family in the 1980's.

You might try the same suggestion.

modified for clarity, it's just not worth it.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 06:06:22 PM by killfoile »

Offline hotpuppy

  • Member
  • Posts: 555
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #66 on: August 04, 2010, 08:38:08 PM »
Be sure to have your doctor check with pharmacy before prescribing benzodiazapines. My husband takes Atripla and has to carry a warning card that says no medications in the class benzodiazapines  due to drug interactions that can  result in fatal reactions.  As to unprotected sex, we have met several poz friends since being diagnosed that have strains of HIV that are resistant to several medications. Actually so many that it makes us wonder why we did not have resistances.  A super infection of more than one strain can limit your options to treatment. We have a friend who was in ICU with pneumonia several times before the doctors finally found a med regimine to get his virus under control. Condoms are about as glamorous as a 400 lb  lady in shorts and t shirt soaked in sweat on a 104 degree humid day, and hard to find in a comfortable size & style,  but MUCH better than the alternative.

Resistance and super-infection aren't necessarily the same thing. 

Resistance can occur with a single strain of HIV.

Super-infection simply involves different strains.

To clarify there are, in theory, different types of super-infection.

1. Cross-type  HIV1+HIV2:  This is a real danger as these are essentially two viruses.  However, HIV-2 is primarily a west coast, African issue.  HIV2 is thought to be much slower progression (based on what I understand).

2. Cross-group, HIV1M+HIV1N, problem is that M is the common one and everything else is an outlier. 

3. Cross-SubGroup. HIV1MB+HIV1MC.  This is the most likely issue you will face.  The various subtypes of HIV1M are distributed more or less geographically.... so if your sex involves people from other areas you may wind up with more than one subtype of HIV1M.  This is not a cut and dry thing as there are CRF's or Hybrid strains too.

The article referenced below goes on to claim that there are numerous superinfections, but makes no reference to studies or other documentation.

I sourced my data for this post from http://www.avert.org/hiv-types.htm  This appears to be an accurate source and is referenced with 26 footnotes for those inclined to do more reading.

As for superinfection:
Here are the articles of credible value that I could find using Google:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15995957 - 16 cases from 2002 to 2005  per US NIH.

I just couldn't find much that was relevant and not based on this single paper and credible.
I specifically discounted TheBody (in it's multiple flavors), wikipedia, and "forum" type sites as they are not credible scientific references.  They may contain facts and truths and opinions, but they are not hard scientific evidence.

So let's shoot the numbers.  2002 to 2005 is a good enough period for analysis of risk.

According to the US CDC, which I consider a reputable source,
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/resources/factsheets/pdf/us_overview.pdf

there are approximately 1.1 Million people as of 2008 living with HIV.  This data is as of July 2010.
Regressing on the graph on page 2, it appears that 900,000 is a good number.

So let's skew the statistics to represent more risk and more conservatism, we will go with 800,000 which is the 1997 level.

The period in the study is 3 years, so out of 800,000 people there are 16 cases in 3 years.

The math, which is really small is that you have a .002% chance of being superinfected in a given year, assuming quite a few things like the superinfections occurred in that year and that the risk behavior is normal.

to put that in perspective that is a 1 in 50,000 chance.  In a given year you have a 1/750,000 chance of being hit by lightning..... and 1/6250 in your 80 year lifetime.
http://www.funny2.com/odds.htm
Odds of being possessed by satan are only 1 in 7,000
Dating a super model is a close second at 1:88,000
dating a millionaire - 1:215 (wow)
being murdered: 1:18,000 (better chance then superinfection.
killed in a transportation accident - 1:77
being a pro athlete : 1:22000 (twice as likely)


My point here is that the odds are pretty slim and still heavily influenced by actual risk exposure which translates simplyl into: How much sex are you having with how many different people?

The US Porn industry has a well documented sero-exclusion system that has permitted bareback sex with only the occassional infection due to outside intercourse.  My point here is that the HIV community has a relatively low rate of mixing between different geographies.  This carries more weight when you consider the socio-economic impact of HIV.  It's not like winning the lotto where you have tons of cash to jetset to your next piece of ass.  Thus, the economic status and geographic isolation act as a form of sero-exclusionary process to keep subtypes relatively isolated. 

Interestingly, Europe has seen an increase in subtype infection diversity.... I would guess this is due to the Eurozone increasing travel and exposure opportunities.

So ultimately, sex with 1 person isn't as risky as sex with 10 people which is still less than sex with 500 people per year.  And who you are having sex with matters.  Sex with 1 person who travels to Africa regularly is probably higher risk for subtype exposure diversity than the sex with 500 people in a year who don't travel at all.

The reality is that most of us have far fewer sex partners than we would like to fantasize about.

I'm not saying that super-infection can't happen... I'm just suggesting that observation indicates that it isn't happening as often as the hype would have you believe and that your real risk exposure behavior has alot to do with it.  Living on the Isle of Man and shagging 10 people a week who live there is different from being the "welcome hole" at a bath in NYC near the airport and playing international catcher each night of the week.

So, depending on your appetite for risk you may choose to wear a body condom, or not. 

I personally haven't found any convincing evidence to suggest that super infection represents a real and present danger to me as a gay man. 

What I have found is a history of sustained hedonism within the American Gay HIV community that is at total odds with the risk being propagated by ASO's.

To put it bluntly, Hep C is a bigger risk than re-infection.... and you have to work a little to catch Hep C in the course of ordinary anal intercourse.  Not to say you can't catch it.... just that it's hard to catch without blood to blood contact.  http://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/C/cFAQ.htm#transmission (considered low risk per CDC)

Heck if you look at the treatment recommendations from the CDC http://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/Populations/PDFs/RiskPopulationTable.pdf they don't even consider Hep C a risk unless you are an admitted IV drug user.  That tells you something as these are the guidelines most ASO's run under.
Don't obsess over the wrong things.  Life isn't about your numbers, it isn't about this forum, it isn't about someone's opinion.  It's about getting out there and enjoying it.   I am a person with HIV - not the other way around.

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #67 on: August 04, 2010, 08:41:14 PM »
Not quite.

PrEP is  pre-exposure prophylaxis, where hiv meds are taken before an exposure to hiv. An example of PrEP use is when a poz/neg couple want to conceive a baby the natural way.

PEP is post-exposure prophylaxis, where hiv meds are taken after an exposure. It must be started no later than 72 hours after exposure and it is taken for 28 days, not "a few  months".


so what if someone had HIV and had unprotected sex with someone that is negative and told them to take this meds. they wouldn't get HIV?!?

Offline max123

  • Member
  • Posts: 377
  • Carpe Diem
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #68 on: August 04, 2010, 08:59:28 PM »

so what if someone had HIV and had unprotected sex with someone that is negative and told them to take this meds. they wouldn't get HIV?!?
that would be the intended goal of pep....post exposure prophylaxis. its a little more complicated than that...risk factors are assessed and arv meds prescribed, by a doc, within the said time frame. have you put someone at risk or is this just a random question?
1/86 - 6/08 (annually): neg elisa
7/09: pos elisa/pos wb
8/09: cd4 560, cd4% 35, vl 13,050
12/09: cd4 568, cd4% 33, vl 2,690
4/10: cd4 557, cd4% 29.3, vl 6,440
7/10: cd4 562, cd4% 29.6, vl 3,780

Offline hotpuppy

  • Member
  • Posts: 555
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #69 on: August 04, 2010, 09:02:27 PM »

so what if someone had HIV and had unprotected sex with someone that is negative and told them to take this meds. they wouldn't get HIV?!?

In theory.... but it's not a license to go boink anything that moves without a condom.  Not sure where you are, but the laws vary from one place to the next and you don't need legal trouble.

The meds are EXPENSIVE (like $2000/mo).  The tests are expensive ($1200/pop).  So you have to either have good insurance or deep pockets, and it's simply not a long term solution.

Safe sex, and a monogamous relationship with someone who is poz are a better solution.

So how are things going for you?
Don't obsess over the wrong things.  Life isn't about your numbers, it isn't about this forum, it isn't about someone's opinion.  It's about getting out there and enjoying it.   I am a person with HIV - not the other way around.

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 23,901
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #70 on: August 04, 2010, 09:05:35 PM »
some of these jaded old bitches have open wounds from losing all of their friends, lovers, and family in the 1980's. 

... and you call yourself an activist

No wonder you can't get a date.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #71 on: August 04, 2010, 09:42:29 PM »
that would be the intended goal of pep....post exposure prophylaxis. its a little more complicated than that...risk factors are assessed and arv meds prescribed, by a doc, within the said time frame. have you put someone at risk or is this just a random question?

just a random question lol..and no i would never give anyone HIV!
shit i tell random people i have HIV i dont really care if people know or if they dont know.

Offline hotpuppy

  • Member
  • Posts: 555
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #72 on: August 04, 2010, 09:46:36 PM »
... and you call yourself an activist

No wonder you can't get a date.

Look, there are certainly people on here who are:
-Bitter
-Jaded
-Old
-Bitches.

A few individuals belong in more than one category, and some are certainly "jaded old bitches."  It becomes a problem when I attach names to the labels.  In this particular instance I was not writing about any one person.  By now, you should know I'm capable of outlining someone if I want to.

I think the labels are all relative and I'm sure to the OP I'm a jaded old bitch.  I've certainly been called bitter and jaded among other things.  I felt it was important to relate to WTF's post in order to communicate with him.  I acknowledged his point of view at the same time I acknowledged the significant pain that surviving the 80's and early 90's has caused for many LTS.  Nothing you or I can do will change what did not happen in the 80's and 90's nor what did.  

So rather than focusing in on the part you object to, why not reach a little higher.  You also neglected to mention the first part of the sentence "TRY TO BE MORE SENSITIVE....."  If you are going to quote, at least quote in full sentences.  Otherwise you might as well just pick words and letters out and reconstruct them to serve your purposes.  You can get almost any word out of my writing if you use the letters.  Partial quotes are as bad as misquotes.

As if on queu a few people thought I was calling them by name and have come screaming out of the corners with their literary sword at the ready.   Nobody handed anyone a sign that said "jaded old bitch" and forced them to run around waving it.  I call it like I see it and I'm not always going to make people happy.  If I lived through half of what I've heard about from the 80's I would be a bitter jaded bitch.  Count on it.  

All of which begs the question.  If you are so easily provoked, how do you handle people who aren't on your side?  Stress has to eat you alive if you let something minor like the mention of "jaded old bitches" set you off?

I mean, really?  I think my response would be: "And I'll get your little dog too my pretty..... muhahahaa" or "Yea, and if your lucky one day you'll be one too, and your luck will be better if you get out of my sight!"

Being old, bitter, bitchy, and jaded is sort of a battle scar that comes with surviving enough shit in life to be all of those things and be socially acceptable.  Grandmothers are frequently jaded old bitches.... and they have that right.  When you live 70 or 80 years, have diarrhea, cramps, hobble with a cane, are going bald, can't get laid, and see the doctor more than your family.... it tends to have that affect.  It's not so much an insult as it is a acknowledgement.....

So before you jump to conclusions..... at least look before you leap.  You should also know me by now that if I want to insult someone I'm not going to be around the bush.

« Last Edit: August 04, 2010, 09:52:34 PM by hotpuppy »
Don't obsess over the wrong things.  Life isn't about your numbers, it isn't about this forum, it isn't about someone's opinion.  It's about getting out there and enjoying it.   I am a person with HIV - not the other way around.

Offline max123

  • Member
  • Posts: 377
  • Carpe Diem
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #73 on: August 04, 2010, 09:48:08 PM »
just a random question lol..and no i would never give anyone HIV!
shit i tell random people i have HIV i dont really care if people know or if they dont know.
that's good to know
1/86 - 6/08 (annually): neg elisa
7/09: pos elisa/pos wb
8/09: cd4 560, cd4% 35, vl 13,050
12/09: cd4 568, cd4% 33, vl 2,690
4/10: cd4 557, cd4% 29.3, vl 6,440
7/10: cd4 562, cd4% 29.6, vl 3,780

Offline hotpuppy

  • Member
  • Posts: 555
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #74 on: August 04, 2010, 09:53:19 PM »
just a random question lol..and no i would never give anyone HIV!
shit i tell random people i have HIV i dont really care if people know or if they dont know.

Well, it's a logical leap sort of thing. 

Good to know you have some morals and ethics.
Don't obsess over the wrong things.  Life isn't about your numbers, it isn't about this forum, it isn't about someone's opinion.  It's about getting out there and enjoying it.   I am a person with HIV - not the other way around.

Offline hotpuppy

  • Member
  • Posts: 555
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #75 on: August 04, 2010, 09:54:26 PM »
No wonder you can't get a date.

Forgot to mention I had a good one last night as a matter of fact.   Not sure if it will develop, but I liked the guy and enjoyed the conversation.

NO, we didn't fuck either.   :-*
Don't obsess over the wrong things.  Life isn't about your numbers, it isn't about this forum, it isn't about someone's opinion.  It's about getting out there and enjoying it.   I am a person with HIV - not the other way around.

Offline sharkdiver

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,350
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #76 on: August 04, 2010, 10:48:01 PM »
Look, there are certainly people on here who are:
-Bitter
-Jaded
-Old
-Bitches.

A few individuals belong in more than one category, and some are certainly "jaded old bitches."  It becomes a problem when I attach names to the labels.  In this particular instance I was not writing about any one person.  By now, you should know I'm capable of outlining someone if I want to.

I think the labels are all relative and I'm sure to the OP I'm a jaded old bitch.  I've certainly been called bitter and jaded among other things.  I felt it was important to relate to WTF's post in order to communicate with him.  I acknowledged his point of view at the same time I acknowledged the significant pain that surviving the 80's and early 90's has caused for many LTS.  Nothing you or I can do will change what did not happen in the 80's and 90's nor what did.  

So rather than focusing in on the part you object to, why not reach a little higher.  You also neglected to mention the first part of the sentence "TRY TO BE MORE SENSITIVE....."  If you are going to quote, at least quote in full sentences.  Otherwise you might as well just pick words and letters out and reconstruct them to serve your purposes.  You can get almost any word out of my writing if you use the letters.  Partial quotes are as bad as misquotes.

As if on queu a few people thought I was calling them by name and have come screaming out of the corners with their literary sword at the ready.   Nobody handed anyone a sign that said "jaded old bitch" and forced them to run around waving it.  I call it like I see it and I'm not always going to make people happy.  If I lived through half of what I've heard about from the 80's I would be a bitter jaded bitch.  Count on it.  

All of which begs the question.  If you are so easily provoked, how do you handle people who aren't on your side?  Stress has to eat you alive if you let something minor like the mention of "jaded old bitches" set you off?

I mean, really?  I think my response would be: "And I'll get your little dog too my pretty..... muhahahaa" or "Yea, and if your lucky one day you'll be one too, and your luck will be better if you get out of my sight!"

Being old, bitter, bitchy, and jaded is sort of a battle scar that comes with surviving enough shit in life to be all of those things and be socially acceptable.  Grandmothers are frequently jaded old bitches.... and they have that right.  When you live 70 or 80 years, have diarrhea, cramps, hobble with a cane, are going bald, can't get laid, and see the doctor more than your family.... it tends to have that affect.  It's not so much an insult as it is a acknowledgement.....

So before you jump to conclusions..... at least look before you leap.  You should also know me by now that if I want to insult someone I'm not going to be around the bush.



I'm not much older than you and and a LTS going on 26 years. The comment offended me.


Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,782
  • Smart ass faggot ©
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #77 on: August 04, 2010, 11:23:09 PM »
Look, there are certainly people on here who are:
-Bitter
-Jaded
-Old
-Bitches.

A few individuals belong in more than one category, and some are certainly "jaded old bitches."  It becomes a problem when I attach names to the labels.  In this particular instance I was not writing about any one person.  By now, you should know I'm capable of outlining someone if I want to.

I'm only 33 and not an LTS, but have lost my share of people to this thang.  I don't doubt that some heads around here think that I am a bitch, jaded, bitter (or all of the above); all of that is in the eye of the beholder.  Still, I found your comment (and the subsequent attempts to defend your viewpoint) not very tasteful. 

Why don't you just admit it dawg; you were not right in saying that crap.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #78 on: August 05, 2010, 12:05:54 AM »
Resistance and super-infection aren't necessarily the same thing. 

Resistance can occur with a single strain of HIV.

Super-infection simply involves different strains.

To clarify there are, in theory, different types of super-infection.

1. Cross-type  HIV1+HIV2:  This is a real danger as these are essentially two viruses.  However, HIV-2 is primarily a west coast, African issue.  HIV2 is thought to be much slower progression (based on what I understand).

2. Cross-group, HIV1M+HIV1N, problem is that M is the common one and everything else is an outlier. 

3. Cross-SubGroup. HIV1MB+HIV1MC.  This is the most likely issue you will face.  The various subtypes of HIV1M are distributed more or less geographically.... so if your sex involves people from other areas you may wind up with more than one subtype of HIV1M.  This is not a cut and dry thing as there are CRF's or Hybrid strains too.

The article referenced below goes on to claim that there are numerous superinfections, but makes no reference to studies or other documentation.

I sourced my data for this post from http://www.avert.org/hiv-types.htm  This appears to be an accurate source and is referenced with 26 footnotes for those inclined to do more reading.

As for superinfection:
Here are the articles of credible value that I could find using Google:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15995957 - 16 cases from 2002 to 2005  per US NIH.

I just couldn't find much that was relevant and not based on this single paper and credible.
I specifically discounted TheBody (in it's multiple flavors), wikipedia, and "forum" type sites as they are not credible scientific references.  They may contain facts and truths and opinions, but they are not hard scientific evidence.

So let's shoot the numbers.  2002 to 2005 is a good enough period for analysis of risk.

According to the US CDC, which I consider a reputable source,
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillance/resources/factsheets/pdf/us_overview.pdf

there are approximately 1.1 Million people as of 2008 living with HIV.  This data is as of July 2010.
Regressing on the graph on page 2, it appears that 900,000 is a good number.

So let's skew the statistics to represent more risk and more conservatism, we will go with 800,000 which is the 1997 level.

The period in the study is 3 years, so out of 800,000 people there are 16 cases in 3 years.

The math, which is really small is that you have a .002% chance of being superinfected in a given year, assuming quite a few things like the superinfections occurred in that year and that the risk behavior is normal.

to put that in perspective that is a 1 in 50,000 chance.  In a given year you have a 1/750,000 chance of being hit by lightning..... and 1/6250 in your 80 year lifetime.
http://www.funny2.com/odds.htm
Odds of being possessed by satan are only 1 in 7,000
Dating a super model is a close second at 1:88,000
dating a millionaire - 1:215 (wow)
being murdered: 1:18,000 (better chance then superinfection.
killed in a transportation accident - 1:77
being a pro athlete : 1:22000 (twice as likely)


My point here is that the odds are pretty slim and still heavily influenced by actual risk exposure which translates simplyl into: How much sex are you having with how many different people?

The US Porn industry has a well documented sero-exclusion system that has permitted bareback sex with only the occassional infection due to outside intercourse.  My point here is that the HIV community has a relatively low rate of mixing between different geographies.  This carries more weight when you consider the socio-economic impact of HIV.  It's not like winning the lotto where you have tons of cash to jetset to your next piece of ass.  Thus, the economic status and geographic isolation act as a form of sero-exclusionary process to keep subtypes relatively isolated. 

Interestingly, Europe has seen an increase in subtype infection diversity.... I would guess this is due to the Eurozone increasing travel and exposure opportunities.

So ultimately, sex with 1 person isn't as risky as sex with 10 people which is still less than sex with 500 people per year.  And who you are having sex with matters.  Sex with 1 person who travels to Africa regularly is probably higher risk for subtype exposure diversity than the sex with 500 people in a year who don't travel at all.

The reality is that most of us have far fewer sex partners than we would like to fantasize about.

I'm not saying that super-infection can't happen... I'm just suggesting that observation indicates that it isn't happening as often as the hype would have you believe and that your real risk exposure behavior has alot to do with it.  Living on the Isle of Man and shagging 10 people a week who live there is different from being the "welcome hole" at a bath in NYC near the airport and playing international catcher each night of the week.

So, depending on your appetite for risk you may choose to wear a body condom, or not. 

I personally haven't found any convincing evidence to suggest that super infection represents a real and present danger to me as a gay man. 

What I have found is a history of sustained hedonism within the American Gay HIV community that is at total odds with the risk being propagated by ASO's.

To put it bluntly, Hep C is a bigger risk than re-infection.... and you have to work a little to catch Hep C in the course of ordinary anal intercourse.  Not to say you can't catch it.... just that it's hard to catch without blood to blood contact.  http://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/C/cFAQ.htm#transmission (considered low risk per CDC)

Heck if you look at the treatment recommendations from the CDC http://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/Populations/PDFs/RiskPopulationTable.pdf they don't even consider Hep C a risk unless you are an admitted IV drug user.  That tells you something as these are the guidelines most ASO's run under.



when i went to the doc i asked if she knew or could find out what strain i had and she said no is this true?

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #79 on: August 05, 2010, 12:12:09 AM »
I find it funny as hell if you say one wrong word or  say something the wrong way or word it wrong
people basically throw you in a gas chamber!.lol
Like get over it! It's okay! you will live!and its not the end of the world!.lol
not saying that i dont get mad at what some people say i just try to blow it off!
sometimes i can sometimes i cant! and i understand some people shouldnt be rude..

Offline newt

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,877
  • the one and original newt
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #80 on: August 05, 2010, 02:37:34 AM »
Quote
when i went to the doc i asked if she knew or could find out what strain i had and she said no is this true?

HIV subtype testing is routine test and I would be surprised if any major clinic in the developed world did not do this. I suppose individual doctors' offices may not order the test (but they should).

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline hotpuppy

  • Member
  • Posts: 555
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #81 on: August 05, 2010, 06:05:42 AM »
HIV subtype testing is routine test and I would be surprised if any major clinic in the developed world did not do this. I suppose individual doctors' offices may not order the test (but they should).

- matt


This hits to another point that hadn't been brought up.

While they do resistance testing as a routine part of HIV treatment, genotyping (what strain you have) is another test.

The reality is that HIV mutates constantly.  Not all the strains survive.

Part of the reason that you don't see many documented cases of super-infection are that it's difficult to test for what your primary strain is, let alone what other strains might be there.  The treatment is normally the same anyhow.

If you treat someone who has acquired a resistant strain, the treatment will suppress the strains that aren't resistant and their viral load will increase as the resistant strain multiplies.  At that point you will switch regimes.  The new regime will target the resistance and likely suppress the other strains as well.

Thus in most people you just simply wouldn't know if they were co-infected with multiple subtypes.  The treatment outcome is the same.

When it theoretically would be a problem is if you had strains with incompatible resistance profiles, but in that case you would just simply treat each one with a med.... so you might wind up with a 4 or 5 drug cocktail, which honestly doesn't seem that much worse then a 3 drug cocktail.  This would likely be the only "super-infection".

My opinion at this point is that everyone has mutliple strains due to mutation, but that it's very rare to acquire clinically significant varieties after initial infection.  It's also rare to acquire resistance through sex.  If it was possible I think we'd see alot more of it given the behavior that goes on in the real world.
Don't obsess over the wrong things.  Life isn't about your numbers, it isn't about this forum, it isn't about someone's opinion.  It's about getting out there and enjoying it.   I am a person with HIV - not the other way around.

Offline hotpuppy

  • Member
  • Posts: 555
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #82 on: August 05, 2010, 06:29:15 AM »
I'm only 33 and not an LTS, but have lost my share of people to this thang.  I don't doubt that some heads around here think that I am a bitch, jaded, bitter (or all of the above); all of that is in the eye of the beholder.  Still, I found your comment (and the subsequent attempts to defend your viewpoint) not very tasteful. 


I agree with you that there were probably better word choices....... given the sensitivity to it and the inability for many to see the whole post for the one sentence.  I'm not honestly sure that replacing "JBB" with "Angry LTS" would have had the same impact.  I felt (and still do feel) it was necessary to cast some LTS as being jaded and angry and that they are entitled to be jaded, angry, etc.  It comes with the turf and it's a badge of honor, not a diss.  The more important point of the sentence was that certain people needed to realize that comments about "dying quickly" and "living 40 years" were deeply offensive to the same LTS because they had lived through what essentially was a HIV holocaust in the 80's while the US government did essentially nothing to stop the spread of HIV.

It is a particular type of communication style that serves a specific objective.  The format is: remand, shock, pause, explain.  It is extremely effective at getting someone's attention and has the "stun grenade" affect in writing. 

I felt it was necessary to use a very powerful comment in a non-direct way to point out that making comments wishing for the 80's as it relates to HIV was a sort of foul that rubbed alot of salt into wounds that will never heal.  Thus I did not say "X" is a JBB.  I used the label in a more general context.  The specific issue is that reading someone wish for an untreatable death is in opposition to our belief that nobody should want to die quickly.

Now, it may come that despite explanation, you still don't like what I wrote.  At which point we will have to simply agree to disagree as that is the literary algebra for open discourse when two parties disagree.

Heck you may think I'm a stubborn bitter jaded bitch.... lol.  And I am sometimes.  Lord knows I've been called nearly every insult at one point or another. 
Don't obsess over the wrong things.  Life isn't about your numbers, it isn't about this forum, it isn't about someone's opinion.  It's about getting out there and enjoying it.   I am a person with HIV - not the other way around.

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #83 on: August 05, 2010, 06:35:47 AM »
HIV subtype testing is routine test and I would be surprised if any major clinic in the developed world did not do this. I suppose individual doctors' offices may not order the test (but they should).

- matt


I don't feel like the place i am going is giving me all the information i need/want to know.
I ask for a copy of my blood work.she says i can't have a copy.
I feel like there just telling me half the story getting me in there then pushing me out the door!
When I go back this month if they try to put me on meds and can't give me a good enough reason to why I should go on meds and why the med they prescribe are the best I'm not taking them.
And i will of course post my numbers one here.lol
hundreds of minds are better then one doctor!(in a way.)

And also alot of people are telling me i need "to wait as long as i can" before being put on drugs.
Is this right should i wait as long as possible or should i start as soon as possible?
cause I'm going to be honest I'm not ready to start taking meds. (like just think about it make s me nervous lol)

Offline hotpuppy

  • Member
  • Posts: 555
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #84 on: August 05, 2010, 06:36:42 AM »
I find it funny as hell if you say one wrong word or  say something the wrong way or word it wrong
people basically throw you in a gas chamber!.lol
Like get over it! It's okay! you will live!and its not the end of the world!.lol
not saying that i dont get mad at what some people say i just try to blow it off!
sometimes i can sometimes i cant! and i understand some people shouldnt be rude..


It's just a reflection of perspective.  When you are 1/2" from the wall you see alot more dirt then when you are 6 feet from it.  

You'll come across it pretty often.  There are certain "taboo" subjects that are "no-no's" in the HIV world.

Among them:
- Suggesting that someone might have wanted to be poz.
- Any perceived negative remark about people who have had the disease for a while.
- Not promising to drink the kool-aid with regards to safe-sex.  (your ASO will go ballistic about this)
- Pointing out that many Ryan White Grantees are incredibly inefficient and wasteful.
Don't obsess over the wrong things.  Life isn't about your numbers, it isn't about this forum, it isn't about someone's opinion.  It's about getting out there and enjoying it.   I am a person with HIV - not the other way around.

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #85 on: August 05, 2010, 06:41:40 AM »
It's just a reflection of perspective.  When you are 1/2" from the wall you see alot more dirt then when you are 6 feet from it.  

You'll come across it pretty often.  There are certain "taboo" subjects that are "no-no's" in the HIV world.

Among them:
- Suggesting that someone might have wanted to be poz.
- Any perceived negative remark about people who have had the disease for a while.
- Not promising to drink the kool-aid with regards to safe-sex.  (your ASO will go ballistic about this)
- Pointing out that many Ryan White Grantees are incredibly inefficient and wasteful.


like saying "I wish i got AIDS in the 80's so I would be dead right now!"
that was wrong.lol
i would never say that!
(even if i wanted to)

Offline hotpuppy

  • Member
  • Posts: 555
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #86 on: August 05, 2010, 06:47:45 AM »
I don't feel like the place i am going is giving me all the information i need/want to know.
I ask for a copy of my blood work.she says i can't have a copy.
I feel like there just telling me half the story getting me in there then pushing me out the door!
When I go back this month if they try to put me on meds and can't give me a good enough reason to why I should go on meds and why the med they prescribe are the best I'm not taking them.
And i will of course post my numbers one here.lol
hundreds of minds are better then one doctor!(in a way.)

And also alot of people are telling me i need "to wait as long as i can" before being put on drugs.
Is this right should i wait as long as possible or should i start as soon as possible?
cause I'm going to be honest I'm not ready to start taking meds. (like just think about it make s me nervous lol)

Okay...
1. You are LEGALLY entitled to a copy of anything and everything in your medical file in the US.  So if you want a copy of your labs, go back and ask for a copy.  They HAVE to give it to you.  

the conversation should go something like:
you: Hi, I'd like to get a copy of the labs in my file?
them: We don't do that
you: Well, I'd appreciate it if you did.  Can you please honor my request?
them: Well.....
you: Who would I need to talk to about getting this?
them: the director of clinical services, Jack B Jerky
you: When's the best time to reach him?
them: He's free right now? Would you like me to transfer your call?
you: Yes, I'd really appreciate that, thank you for all your help, have a great day.  (just trust me on buttering the operator/receptionist/clerk up.)
JBJ: Hi, May I help you?
you: Yes, this is Joe GonnaGetMyLabs, Wilma Won't said you were the person to talk to about getting a copy of my labs from my records?
JBJ: That's correct.
you: I'd really appreciate it if I could have a copy of my labs.  This would allow me to study them and look some of the information up that isn't practical to do in the 15 minutes when the doctor sees me.  
JBJ: I suppose we could accomodate that.
you: Great, is there any paperwork I need complete? Do you think I could have them in a week or two?


That's all there should be to it.  I wrote it out as a script for you so that you have a better idea of how to get what you want from them without attacking them which will get you nowhere.

Nice always works better than nasty, but reminding them gently that you are entitled to a copy of your report may help.  Keep in mind that the clerk at the counter is only allowed to follow policy and most people are jerks to him or her.  So it may take you much further if you are extra nice to them.  they have more power then you think and when they pass the call they can push for or against you.  Think of this:

clerk: Yes, Mr. jerky?  I have this punk on the line bugging me about his records.... he's insisting to talk to you... .
vs.
clerk: Yes, Mr. Jerky?  I have a client on the line who wants a copy of his labs.  He's a nice kid but our policy requires you to allow it, do you have a moment to talk to him?

Same thing being said, but the delivery sets the tone for the call and the first call isn't going to be very nice because Mr. Jerky will be on the defensive from the get go.
Don't obsess over the wrong things.  Life isn't about your numbers, it isn't about this forum, it isn't about someone's opinion.  It's about getting out there and enjoying it.   I am a person with HIV - not the other way around.

Offline hotpuppy

  • Member
  • Posts: 555
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #87 on: August 05, 2010, 06:53:14 AM »

<ommitted>
that was wrong.lol
i would never say that!
(even if i wanted to)

Yes that is the comment that I felt deserved an appropriately strong response.  Invoking the desire to be in the holocaust with holocaust survivors tends to have a negative affect.

In this particular case I felt that you and WTF would both benefit from reading something a little stronger than "please be nice to the older guys and gals".  Both of you have at one time or another inadvertantly said something that caused a ruckus. 
Don't obsess over the wrong things.  Life isn't about your numbers, it isn't about this forum, it isn't about someone's opinion.  It's about getting out there and enjoying it.   I am a person with HIV - not the other way around.

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #88 on: August 05, 2010, 06:55:44 AM »
Yes that is the comment that I felt deserved an appropriately strong response.  Invoking the desire to be in the holocaust with holocaust survivors tends to have a negative affect.

In this particular case I felt that you and WTF would both benefit from reading something a little stronger than "please be nice to the older guys and gals".  Both of you have at one time or another inadvertantly said something that caused a ruckus. 

yes...yes i have.. :-\
i like to make the little thing go red! ;D
and im sorry if i feel the way i feel about something

Offline hotpuppy

  • Member
  • Posts: 555
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #89 on: August 05, 2010, 07:11:24 AM »
yes...yes i have.. :-\
i like to make the little thing go red! ;D
and im sorry if i feel the way i feel about something

Well, as you can see it doesn't take much to get some folks excited and bent.  I'm sure the "report to moderator" button is feeling worn out on this thread.

My point to you and WTF in particular was to keep in mind that some people lived through a type of hell that you and I are lucky enough not to revisit.  The wounds that come from this don't heal and so you should be a little sensitive to it.

To illlustrate what I'm talking about..... because at 21 you probably haven't lost any close friends.... If you are like every other 21 year old, you have a cell phone, and it's full of contacts.  

Write the names out on a list.
Now, cross out 95% of them.
Imagine that each name you just crossed out has died from a single disease that can't be treated, that has no cure, and extracts a horrible, slow, painful death and is spread primarilly through sex.
Imagine that this happens in the span of 5 to 8 years.... basically since you were in high school until now.
Imagine that your government is not doing much about this for the first 5 or 6 years, pretending it doesn't exist. (1980 to 1986)

This is exactly what happened in the late 80's and early 90s.  Up until 1993 people died constantly from HIV.  In 1993 Protease Inhibitors, aka PI's changed everything.  You would have been entirely too young to have been aware of what changed..... so I'm giving you an informal history lesson.

WTF is 5 years older then you, more or less, so he too probably has no earthly idea what went on.  He would have been 6 in 1990 and you would have been 1.

I'm aware of it because I came of age in the early 90's.... and people who are a little older then me tend to be "missing"..... there are a couple of entire generations that aren't there because of HIV.  I still didn't experience it.  I just remember going to the bars and picking up a gay bar rag (small magazine) and it being filled with obituaries in the back.  All of the sudden that tapered off and stopped and that was a good thing.  Two things caused this.... Protease Inhibitors and the 3 drug cocktail.

Before those two things, HIV was a "get your shit together and get ready to die" disease and it had a "healthy" period of 2 years or so for most people who caught it.  After the first 2 years from diagnosis they would live another 8 years or so.... on average 10 years in all before falling victim to something like pneumonia because they had no immune system left.  A small handful of people survived because they had some immunity, a very mild disease, or were just plain damn lucky.  A few of the survivors were the human guinea pigs that tested the initial drugs some of which were simply rat poison with a happy face on it.  The early meds weren't terribly effective and were prescribed at very high doses so the side effects were abysmal.  However, miserable life beats early death, so this was considered progress.  What we have now is a luxury and it's easy to forget that.

So,  the more interesting observation here, is that WTF and Bryan represent some of the new HIVers who are too young to have been aware of the first 2 decades of HIV.  Their span of reality likely only involves the last 5 maybe 10 years when HIV has been very treatable.  And just like that I feel old.  Old is when you realize you lived through things that others weren't alive during or were too young to remember.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 08:24:04 AM by hotpuppy »
Don't obsess over the wrong things.  Life isn't about your numbers, it isn't about this forum, it isn't about someone's opinion.  It's about getting out there and enjoying it.   I am a person with HIV - not the other way around.

Offline max123

  • Member
  • Posts: 377
  • Carpe Diem
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #90 on: August 05, 2010, 08:18:26 AM »


when i went to the doc i asked if she knew or could find out what strain i had and she said no is this true?
bryan,

you said your doc discussed putting you on meds...have you had a resistance test done or is he/she just advising meds without that test being done (like just start meds & see what happens)? it's my understanding that many labs run a genotype concurrently, which would specify the hiv subtype. your doc won't give you copies of your records? that is illegal. what kind of doc are you seeing? is it a health clinic or private doc?
1/86 - 6/08 (annually): neg elisa
7/09: pos elisa/pos wb
8/09: cd4 560, cd4% 35, vl 13,050
12/09: cd4 568, cd4% 33, vl 2,690
4/10: cd4 557, cd4% 29.3, vl 6,440
7/10: cd4 562, cd4% 29.6, vl 3,780

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #91 on: August 05, 2010, 01:06:19 PM »
bryan,

you said your doc discussed putting you on meds...have you had a resistance test done or is he/she just advising meds without that test being done (like just start meds & see what happens)? it's my understanding that many labs run a genotype concurrently, which would specify the hiv subtype. your doc won't give you copies of your records? that is illegal. what kind of doc are you seeing? is it a health clinic or private doc?

it's a comprehensive care center in Nashville, they are doing a resistance test with the last blood sample taken on july 19th and she just said that "with your cd4 count where it is we suggest that you start meds but its left up to the patient"
so she really didn't say that i had to or should take meds just the it is suggested.
and yes when i asked for copies of my labs she looked like i asked to see her tits or some shit and then she said no..lol
so on aug. 30th i will have a copy of my records.lol

Offline max123

  • Member
  • Posts: 377
  • Carpe Diem
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #92 on: August 05, 2010, 02:28:13 PM »
it's a comprehensive care center in Nashville, they are doing a resistance test with the last blood sample taken on july 19th and she just said that "with your cd4 count where it is we suggest that you start meds but its left up to the patient"
so she really didn't say that i had to or should take meds just the it is suggested.
and yes when i asked for copies of my labs she looked like i asked to see her tits or some shit and then she said no..lol
so on aug. 30th i will have a copy of my records.lol

http://ihcrp.georgetown.edu/privacy/stateguides/tn/tn.pdf

here you go dude...tennessee medical records access rules took all of a 60 sec google search. maybe start utilizing some of your time taking care of what you need to instead of worrying about random shit like prep/pep. getting through this is all about prioritization. right now, you should try to focus on educating yourself on your rights, understanding your labs, about hiv in general & how to stay healthy. the rest will come in time...if you play your cards right, now.
1/86 - 6/08 (annually): neg elisa
7/09: pos elisa/pos wb
8/09: cd4 560, cd4% 35, vl 13,050
12/09: cd4 568, cd4% 33, vl 2,690
4/10: cd4 557, cd4% 29.3, vl 6,440
7/10: cd4 562, cd4% 29.6, vl 3,780

Online Jeff G

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 10,848
  • How am I doing Beren ?
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #93 on: August 05, 2010, 02:45:33 PM »
it's a comprehensive care center in Nashville, they are doing a resistance test with the last blood sample taken on july 19th and she just said that "with your cd4 count where it is we suggest that you start meds but its left up to the patient"
so she really didn't say that i had to or should take meds just the it is suggested.
and yes when i asked for copies of my labs she looked like i asked to see her tits or some shit and then she said no..lol
so on aug. 30th i will have a copy of my records.lol

You may not have been given your lab results if you receive medicaid . I don't know about your state but in Alabama medicaid recipients are not allowed to get copy's of medical records . You can only sign a release for them to be sent/faxed to your other health care providers .

It however doesn't stop you from asking what your numbers are and writing it down for your own records .   

Offline Joe K

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3,503
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #94 on: August 05, 2010, 04:11:23 PM »
My point to you and WTF in particular was to keep in mind that some people lived through a type of hell that you and I are lucky enough not to revisit.  The wounds that come from this don't heal and so you should be a little sensitive to it.

So,  the more interesting observation here, is that WTF and Bryan represent some of the new HIVers who are too young to have been aware of the first 2 decades of HIV.  Their span of reality likely only involves the last 5 maybe 10 years when HIV has been very treatable.  And just like that I feel old.  Old is when you realize you lived through things that others weren't alive during or were too young to remember.
Thanks for your insight, because now I have a better understanding of what these guys are feeling.

Bryan and WTF, I believe I have been unfair in my criticism of you both and that a little more empathy, on all of our parts is in order. I really wish I had an easy answer for you, but I don't. None of us do. All I know is, at some point, you must adapt to your status, because without that acceptance, you will never begin the healing process. The anger and frustration you feel is very real and a normal reaction to testing poz, but at some point, the pity party must end.

How you became poz, does not matter, it is the fact that you accept that you are poz, that is the goal here. Until you accept your infection and make it your own, you will be too consumed in lamenting a past that can never return. You cannot allow yourself to become rooted in the past, because then you lose all of your tomorrows. My hope for you guys, is that you can use these forums and whatever else to start on that road to acceptance of your infection.

Please remember that you are the same person today, only poz, that you were before your infection. Understand that you are not going to die today, tomorrow, or the day after and that life is for the living. Believe that whatever choices you make, regarding treatment or whatever, will work for you and you will experience minimal side effects, if any at all. Learn to trust your instincts, to seek out competing opinions and to always make an informed decision. Treat your doctor as your partner in determining any course of treatment.

It is also my hope, that someday, you will be able to forgive yourself, for whatever role you may have played in becoming poz. This is not to place blame, rather to forgive you, for whatever you believe you need to be forgiven. It is realizing that demonizing yourself, does nothing to heal you and that healing is what you need most. It involves seeing forgiveness as an act that only you can do for yourself and that you will never be able to do it, until you learn to truly love yourself.

I'll start over and welcome you to the forums and if you ever need someone to just listen... well you know where to find me. Trust me on this guys, work at accepting your infection and stop beating yourself up, over something, that you no longer have any control over.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2010, 04:13:36 PM by killfoile »

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #95 on: August 05, 2010, 04:52:04 PM »
You may not have been given your lab results if you receive medicaid . I don't know about your state but in Alabama medicaid recipients are not allowed to get copy's of medical records . You can only sign a release for them to be sent/faxed to your other health care providers .

It however doesn't stop you from asking what your numbers are and writing it down for your own records .   

okay yes thats what i did..i signed release forms and i wrote the numbers down.
do you know why i can t get copies of my records seems kinda unfair..lol

Online Jeff G

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 10,848
  • How am I doing Beren ?
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #96 on: August 05, 2010, 05:02:43 PM »
okay yes that's what i did..i signed release forms and i wrote the numbers down.
do you know why i can t get copies of my records seems kinda unfair..lol


Medical records can be dangerous for guys your age and you could get a paper cut , ya don't wanna boo boo do ya ? . J/K .

I really don't know the reason why , its just one of the rules medicaid imposes .   

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #97 on: August 05, 2010, 05:04:06 PM »
http://ihcrp.georgetown.edu/privacy/stateguides/tn/tn.pdf

here you go dude...tennessee medical records access rules took all of a 60 sec google search. maybe start utilizing some of your time taking care of what you need to instead of worrying about random shit like prep/pep. getting through this is all about prioritization. right now, you should try to focus on educating yourself on your rights, understanding your labs, about hiv in general & how to stay healthy. the rest will come in time...if you play your cards right, now.

That didn't tell me anything i didn't already know..
and the doctor asked me to explain HIV to her to see how much i know..i went on a like a 10 min. spell   about HIV and she was surprised i knew so much and said that was about it..lol and she didnt tell me anything i didn't already know! (that kinda disappointed me)
i mean i looked up information obsessively for 2 str8 mths!.lol
i know more now then i have ever known about HIV and i hope as time goes on i will learn more!
other then that im country i have always eaten healthy and now i do it hard core i have stopped drugs..i.e. weed/cigarettes/pills..etc.. because those things are unhealthy. i will still drink when i go out.
but lets face it that never happens lol
i dont really understand my labs all i know are the cd4 and viral load numbers but thats all i need to know right?

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #98 on: August 05, 2010, 05:07:10 PM »

Medical records can be dangerous for guys your age and you could get a paper cut , ya don't wanna boo boo do ya ? . J/K .

I really don't know the reason why , its just one of the rules medicaid imposes .   

oh hahaha!
the other day my nose started to bleed and i was like i NEED THE BLEACH!!!!.lol
(but it did upset me a little bit) :-\
but oh well!
 ;D
stay happy there are to many mean people out there! lol

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #99 on: August 05, 2010, 05:23:50 PM »
Thanks for your insight, because now I have a better understanding of what these guys are feeling.

Bryan and WTF, I believe I have been unfair in my criticism of you both and that a little more empathy, on all of our parts is in order. I really wish I had an easy answer for you, but I don't. None of us do. All I know is, at some point, you must adapt to your status, because without that acceptance, you will never begin the healing process. The anger and frustration you feel is very real and a normal reaction to testing poz, but at some point, the pity party must end.

How you became poz, does not matter, it is the fact that you accept that you are poz, that is the goal here. Until you accept your infection and make it your own, you will be too consumed in lamenting a past that can never return. You cannot allow yourself to become rooted in the past, because then you lose all of your tomorrows. My hope for you guys, is that you can use these forums and whatever else to start on that road to acceptance of your infection.

Please remember that you are the same person today, only poz, that you were before your infection. Understand that you are not going to die today, tomorrow, or the day after and that life is for the living. Believe that whatever choices you make, regarding treatment or whatever, will work for you and you will experience minimal side effects, if any at all. Learn to trust your instincts, to seek out competing opinions and to always make an informed decision. Treat your doctor as your partner in determining any course of treatment.

It is also my hope, that someday, you will be able to forgive yourself, for whatever role you may have played in becoming poz. This is not to place blame, rather to forgive you, for whatever you believe you need to be forgiven. It is realizing that demonizing yourself, does nothing to heal you and that healing is what you need most. It involves seeing forgiveness as an act that only you can do for yourself and that you will never be able to do it, until you learn to truly love yourself.

I'll start over and welcome you to the forums and if you ever need someone to just listen... well you know where to find me. Trust me on this guys, work at accepting your infection and stop beating yourself up, over something, that you no longer have any control over.



you know i think if i were in your shoes i would have felt the same way!
and said the same things...but what WTF said and what i said are two diff things i feel
when i read some of the things he wrote( i didnt read it all) i was like OMG.. :o did he just say that
and i was kinda venting a little bit in this topic (next time i will breath before i post something)
but my next post will be on HIV/AIDS activism!...(look for it)
i want to get very very active in this...im doing the nashville aids walk this year (we have the largest team so far!! go team "warriors for life!!)lol
im not going to hide the fact that i am positive!(though i do pick and choose who i tell! there is one person that is going around telling people i have it! and some of the people he told are positive! lol people are stupid.it makes me mad a little that he is telling people i feel its not his place to tell people i have HIV it is mine!) but like i said i dont care who knows the people that i want in my life wont care and the ones that do care are the ones that i dont need in my life!!

Online Jeff G

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 10,848
  • How am I doing Beren ?
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #100 on: August 05, 2010, 05:27:53 PM »
Hi Bryan ... If you don't mind me asking about your labs would you mind telling us what the numbers are ?

You wrote that your doctor suggested you start meds ... do you intend to start ?  

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #101 on: August 05, 2010, 05:32:26 PM »
Hi Bryan ... If you don't mind me asking about your labs would you mind telling us what the numbers are ?

You wrote that your doctor suggested you start meds ... do you intend to start ?  

its on another thread but i tell you hear lol

first..the blood was taken back on may 19th...i got results on july 20th..more blood was taken and i go back for the results on aug 30th.
my cd4 was 513 and my viral load was 204.
but because the blood was old she took more to get a better picture of my numbers..

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=33633.0

theres the link..

Online Jeff G

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 10,848
  • How am I doing Beren ?
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #102 on: August 05, 2010, 05:39:34 PM »
its on another thread but i tell you hear lol

first..the blood was taken back on may 19th...i got results on july 20th..more blood was taken and i go back for the results on aug 30th.
my cd4 was 513 and my viral load was 204.
but because the blood was old she took more to get a better picture of my numbers..

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=33633.0

theres the link..



Not bad by any means  ;D . My numbers are only slightly better after many years of meds . I did begin meds again after letting them slip to almost nothing so I had a long road to get them up again .   

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #103 on: August 05, 2010, 05:41:23 PM »
yes thats what everyone says..so thats a relief!!

Offline hotpuppy

  • Member
  • Posts: 555
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #104 on: August 05, 2010, 05:44:09 PM »
That's kind of a long time..... normally it's 2 weeks from lab draw to results.  The usual pattern is you go in for bloodwork, and then you go back for the doc and results.

You can focus on your HIV related numbers, but once you start meds it is nice to have a history to look back on if your numbers migrate up.  

The thing to think about with meds is balancing the meds against the damage HIV does.  The thinking is that over time, HIV wears down your immune system and so the earlier you start treatment the less damage it does.

Keep in mind:
- I'm not a doctor or scientist
- This isn't medical advice
- I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.   ;D

It is however my personal opinion.  

In a nutshell, you are playing a game of chess.  You vs. HIV.  The idea is to run the clock out because HIV will eventually checkmate you.  So, you want to strategize your moves to maximize your health and minimize side effects.

Two years ago I had the opinion that drug development was progressing nicely and that if I could delay things I'd have some new options presumably with fewer side effects.  Unfortunately, Atripla and Truvada+PI have worked so well it makes testing the new drugs and bringing them to market hard.  The way we do testing in the US is that the new drug has to be better then the current one or offer some clinical benefit such as better viral suppression.  Right now Atripla delivers suppresion to below testable levels and that's hard to beat.  You can't say, oh well Medicine X delivers suppression to below testable levels.  That isn't any better....
Don't obsess over the wrong things.  Life isn't about your numbers, it isn't about this forum, it isn't about someone's opinion.  It's about getting out there and enjoying it.   I am a person with HIV - not the other way around.

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #105 on: August 05, 2010, 05:50:44 PM »
well im going to post my next set of numbers and the last ones
so everyone here can see them and if more people tell me to start meds then i will (try)
if more people tell me i should hold off then i will..

Offline max123

  • Member
  • Posts: 377
  • Carpe Diem
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #106 on: August 05, 2010, 05:58:48 PM »
That didn't tell me anything i didn't already know..
and the doctor asked me to explain HIV to her to see how much i know..i went on a like a 10 min. spell   about HIV and she was surprised i knew so much and said that was about it..lol and she didnt tell me anything i didn't already know! (that kinda disappointed me)
i mean i looked up information obsessively for 2 str8 mths!.lol
i know more now then i have ever known about HIV and i hope as time goes on i will learn more!
other then that im country i have always eaten healthy and now i do it hard core i have stopped drugs..i.e. weed/cigarettes/pills..etc.. because those things are unhealthy. i will still drink when i go out.
but lets face it that never happens lol
i dont really understand my labs all i know are the cd4 and viral load numbers but thats all i need to know right?

wrong, i guess you missed that part in all your research. no worries:  http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/BloodTest_5030.shtml
1/86 - 6/08 (annually): neg elisa
7/09: pos elisa/pos wb
8/09: cd4 560, cd4% 35, vl 13,050
12/09: cd4 568, cd4% 33, vl 2,690
4/10: cd4 557, cd4% 29.3, vl 6,440
7/10: cd4 562, cd4% 29.6, vl 3,780

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #107 on: August 05, 2010, 06:43:31 PM »
wrong, i guess you missed that part in all your research. no worries:  http://www.aidsmeds.com/articles/BloodTest_5030.shtml

yea see that CBC/CS is like another language !!!
im lost!

Offline max123

  • Member
  • Posts: 377
  • Carpe Diem
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #108 on: August 05, 2010, 06:49:47 PM »
yea see that CBC/CS is like another language !!!
im lost!

that's what google is for :)

http://www.bloodtestresultsexplained.com/blood-test-abbreviations
1/86 - 6/08 (annually): neg elisa
7/09: pos elisa/pos wb
8/09: cd4 560, cd4% 35, vl 13,050
12/09: cd4 568, cd4% 33, vl 2,690
4/10: cd4 557, cd4% 29.3, vl 6,440
7/10: cd4 562, cd4% 29.6, vl 3,780

Offline bryan21

  • Member
  • Posts: 120
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #109 on: August 05, 2010, 07:01:00 PM »
well you are just handy!
i need you in my back pocket..lol.jk ;D

Offline dvinemstre

  • Member
  • Posts: 96
  • hot in carolina
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #110 on: August 05, 2010, 07:55:08 PM »
You may not have been given your lab results if you receive medicaid . I don't know about your state but in Alabama medicaid recipients are not allowed to get copy's of medical records . You can only sign a release for them to be sent/faxed to your other health care providers .

It however doesn't stop you from asking what your numbers are and writing it down for your own records .   

WOW, are you sure? Given that Medicaid is a federally supported program I was under the impression they are required to produce your records for you. Now note, I have to sign a consent form for them to give ME my own copy of MY paperwork every time, which is a bit odd, imo, but I also deal with HIPAA in my work life and the federal standards all say that the patient has the right to their information. damn. z

Online Jeff G

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 10,848
  • How am I doing Beren ?
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #111 on: August 05, 2010, 08:12:54 PM »
WOW, are you sure? Given that Medicaid is a federally supported program I was under the impression they are required to produce your records for you. Now note, I have to sign a consent form for them to give ME my own copy of MY paperwork every time, which is a bit odd, imo, but I also deal with HIPAA in my work life and the federal standards all say that the patient has the right to their information. damn. z

That's my understanding of it all . Since medicaid is a state thing it could vary to some degree . I'm not on medicaid anymore but when I was and tight with my doctors they would useally let me have what I wanted if I signed a release but was told it was against the rules . I have been wrong before or at least misunderstood the facts . I would go look it up but reading through state pdf files are not my idea of a good time .

Offline BJS2011

  • Member
  • Posts: 62
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #112 on: June 22, 2011, 07:50:08 AM »
oh!
And do you remember that horrible,lost,sad,shocked,crushed,i can't believe it, Im going to dye feeling you had when you were told that you are positive?
How could you (even if the other person wants it) have unprotected sex with someone who is negative?

I think ANYONE that knows they have HIV and has unprotected sex is a scum bag. And YES I am passing judgement. Once you test poz you have an obligation and the law to NOT infect others. If your wish is to become super infected thats your insane desire but no one has the right to infect someone on purpose. Its a crime. I couldn't live with myself knowing I did that to someone.

Online Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,943
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #113 on: June 22, 2011, 08:15:01 AM »
Did you decide to skip around the forums and resurrect zombie threads to call people names?

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,254
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #114 on: June 22, 2011, 08:56:35 AM »
I think ANYONE that knows they have HIV and has unprotected sex is a scum bag. And YES I am passing judgement. Once you test poz you have an obligation and the law to NOT infect others. If your wish is to become super infected thats your insane desire but no one has the right to infect someone on purpose. Its a crime. I couldn't live with myself knowing I did that to someone.

You just passed off opinion and judgement, as fact, in another thread:

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=34135.msg481165#msg481165

Why you suddenly on the warpath about this?
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline David Evans

  • member
  • Member
  • Posts: 97
Re: Having unprotected gay sex........
« Reply #115 on: June 22, 2011, 11:22:25 AM »
BJS,

We don't tolerate the kind of behavior you exhibited with your post.

First of all, you came out of the blue and hijacked this threat.

Secondly, what you wrote is offensive and inflammatory for no reason whatsoever. It simply doesn't relate to this thread at all.

If you persist in this behavior you'll get a serious time-out.

David
Moderator

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.