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Author Topic: Is <74 VL the same as Undetectable?  (Read 1076 times)

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Offline cocoboogie

  • Member
  • Posts: 39
Is <74 VL the same as Undetectable?
« on: June 29, 2010, 07:40:49 PM »
A few months ago I had my blood work done and my doctor told me I was undetectable.  I recently had new blood work done.  I was speaking with my ADAP case worker and inquired if she knew my new numbers.  She pulled my numbers on the screen and it showed <74 VL and 498 CD4.  I asked her if this meant I was becoming resistant.  She said any number under 80 is considered undetectable.  I am confused because if you can "detect" the amount of the viral load, how is it undetectable?  I am wondering if she was just trying to prevent me from freaking out. Has anyone else heard of this?
Date    CD4  VL
11/07  20     56,000 started chemo for KS
4/08    12     60,000 started Kaletra and Truvada
5/08    14     820
6/08    19     Undetectable stopped chemo
7/08   149    Undetectable  
8/09   247    undetectable
6/10   498    undetectable
1/11   408    undetectable
4/11   402    undetectable  
5/11   511    undetectable
11/11  599   undetectable
7/12    439   undetectable
3/13     479 undectectable
9/13 645  undectectable

Offline phildinftlaudy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,950
  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Is <74 VL the same as Undetectable?
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2010, 07:46:19 PM »
I think there may be slightly different standards for different tests/by different labs --- my lab counts anything <48 as UD --- they say that is the furthest down they can measure.
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline bocker3

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,264
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: Is <74 VL the same as Undetectable?
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2010, 08:01:50 PM »
While I've not seen a test with 74 as the limit of detection, the fact that they reported as <74 (rather than, say, 73 or 72) leads me to believe that the lower limit of detection for their assay is 74.  So, my interp would be that you are, according to this labs HIV quant assay, undetectable.

Hope that helps.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline J.R.E.

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,967
  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: Is <74 VL the same as Undetectable?
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2010, 08:18:28 PM »
Hi,

I would take that number as being undetectable.  Before I got into the VA healthcare system, my doctor used tests that showed < 50 as undetectable.  The VA uses tests that show < 75 as undetectable.

Ray
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of April 14, 2014,  t-cells are at 485 Viral load unknown @ this time

 Current % is at 14% (L)

  
 62 years young.

Offline Cerrid

  • Member
  • Posts: 499
  • only as good as your last haircut
Re: Is <74 VL the same as Undetectable?
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2010, 01:37:53 AM »
The term "undetectable" is kind of misleading since with the most sensitive instruments, you can detect viral matters down to 1. That's too expensive for standard labs though.

In normal lab procedures and under everyday circumstances, the level of undectability depends on the standard instrumentation used which varies from national standard to national standard. In Germany, it's now <40. A few years back, it was <50, a few more years back, it was <100 and so on. Methods have improved over the time, so the level has been lowered. I've never heard that individual labs set their own limits, though. If they want to get certified to carry out these tests, they have to meet the current instrumentation standards and follow the regulated procedures. May be different in the US though.
"Boredom is always counterrevolutionary. Always." (Guy Debord)

Offline tednlou2

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,613
Re: Is <74 VL the same as Undetectable?
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2010, 02:28:25 AM »
What I always think is interesting is when an HIVer is UD, you still have as many as 1 Million copies daily that the test can't detect and meds can't touch.  I guess those are those hidden reservoirs.  A little off topic I know, but I always think that is interesting.  Before learning about that, I thought UD meant basically undetectable. 

Offline veritas

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,408
Re: Is <74 VL the same as Undetectable?
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2010, 05:08:56 AM »
coco,

It's really semantics. At one time <400 was considered undetectable. As mentioned above, it's the sensitivity of the test. UD is a misnomer. No matter what test you take, the virus is in your body. Only about 2% circulates in your blood.

v

Offline bocker3

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,264
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: Is <74 VL the same as Undetectable?
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2010, 07:27:33 AM »
Really we are talking about an assay's ability to RELIABLY enumerate the number of viral copies detected in blood (all this talk of the virus elsewhere in the body is moot -- it is blood being tested).  Each assay has it's lower limit of sensitivity.  Although I've never performed HIV quant testing myself, I have performed tests with low end sensitivity limits -- the fact was that I would get a number lower than that limit, but could not report the actual number -- only a < whatever that low end sensitivity was.

So, bottomline -- you are likely "undetectable" as far as the assay used on your blood.  No need to worry. 

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline cocoboogie

  • Member
  • Posts: 39
Re: Is <74 VL the same as Undetectable?
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2010, 03:25:29 PM »
Thanks everyone for the responses.  They have been very helpful. 
Date    CD4  VL
11/07  20     56,000 started chemo for KS
4/08    12     60,000 started Kaletra and Truvada
5/08    14     820
6/08    19     Undetectable stopped chemo
7/08   149    Undetectable  
8/09   247    undetectable
6/10   498    undetectable
1/11   408    undetectable
4/11   402    undetectable  
5/11   511    undetectable
11/11  599   undetectable
7/12    439   undetectable
3/13     479 undectectable
9/13 645  undectectable

 


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