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Author Topic: Strange numbers  (Read 3301 times)

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Offline Realist

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Strange numbers
« on: June 07, 2010, 12:13:16 PM »
Hi, can anyone help? Diagnosed at the end of Feb. My numbers all over the place (see below). Anyone else expereinced this?
23/02/10 Tests confirmed
25/02/10 13100 220 24%
12/03/10 19800 372 19%
26/03/10 Atripla
30/04/10 58 286 23%
28/05/10 45 222 21%
25/06/10 UD 301 23%
24/09/10 UD 283 22%
01/12/10 UD 319 23%
11/03/11 UD 293 28%
10/06/11 UD 423 24%
23/08/11 UD 389 26%
28/02/11 UD 315 34%

I blogged it all http://notdownnotout.blogspot.com

Offline Ann

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Re: Strange numbers
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2010, 01:08:28 PM »
Hi Realist, welcome to the forums.

Your numbers really aren't strange at all. It's very common for the CD4 to bounce around and your VL is definitely going in the right direction and very quickly too. Looks like Atripla is working very well for you.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: Strange numbers
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2010, 01:28:37 PM »
Hi, can anyone help? Diagnosed at the end of Feb. My numbers all over the place (see below). Anyone else expereinced this?

Unless I'm missing something or you haven't put in all the results, based on what I see your numbers are not at all "all over the place."

There was less than a month's time between your first and second tests. The CD4s went up some but the percentage went down and the VL went up. This is not at all unusual.

Then you started Atripla and it's working because your viral load went down markedly. Even though your CD4s went down, it was not a huge amount and the percentage went up.

You're basically on the road to recovery. It's hard to know how high your CD4s will get since none of us ever know what our baseline pre-HIV levels were. The length of time having HIV as well as your CD4 nadir will also have an effect on this.

If you keep taking your meds you should do great.

When are you scheduled to go back for more labs?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2010, 02:45:41 PM by Inchlingblue »

Offline Realist

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Re: Strange numbers
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2010, 03:19:17 PM »
Unless I'm missing something or you haven't put in all the results, based on what I see your numbers are not at all "all over the place."

Hi, sorry I know there are people on here with far worse problems than me stressing about my results - these are all the results I have. I just had a freaky moment when I shot down from 372 despite the good virological response to Atripla. I'm just trying to ride the rollercoaster out in my head at the minute. I insisted starting meds ASAP after diagnosis (thouht that was a responsible thing to do!) but am just fearful I might be a discordant responder as CD4 seems to be going the wrong way but appreciate I may not have enough data yet.

I had my last labs taken May 28th and get the results June 25th on my next appointment, although I can call to get them sooner if I want.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, I find this site very useful and helpful.
23/02/10 Tests confirmed
25/02/10 13100 220 24%
12/03/10 19800 372 19%
26/03/10 Atripla
30/04/10 58 286 23%
28/05/10 45 222 21%
25/06/10 UD 301 23%
24/09/10 UD 283 22%
01/12/10 UD 319 23%
11/03/11 UD 293 28%
10/06/11 UD 423 24%
23/08/11 UD 389 26%
28/02/11 UD 315 34%

I blogged it all http://notdownnotout.blogspot.com

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: Strange numbers
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2010, 05:19:30 PM »
 I just had a freaky moment when I shot down from 372 despite the good virological response to Atripla.  

It wasn't a huge drop and the percentage went up so that's a very good sign. It will continue to go up, it's just hard to say this early on how high it will get.

My first blood draw was about 3 weeks after starting meds and the CD4s had gone up but not by a lot. After that, 3 months later, they went up much more.

Do you have an idea for how long you've had HIV before the actual diagnosis?

Offline Ann

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Re: Strange numbers
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2010, 05:23:06 PM »
The huge, quick drop in your VL shows you are responding very well to the meds. Even in hiv negative people, the CD4 count can fluctuate as much as a hundred points during the course of a single day. Don't sweat the CD4s.

Now that you're on meds, the important number is the VL and as I said earlier, it's quickly going in the right direction. You have a good chance of being undetectable on the results you get on the 25th. If you can get them sooner, go for it and put your mind at ease. Some people take months and months to reach undetectable, so relax and be happy.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Online mecch

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Re: Strange numbers
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2010, 06:09:22 PM »
I'm just trying to ride the rollercoaster out in my head at the minute. I insisted starting meds ASAP after diagnosis (thouht that was a responsible thing to do!) but am just fearful I might be a discordant responder as CD4 seems to be going the wrong way but appreciate I may not have enough data yet.

What is a "discordant responder".  Something you read  about somwhere?  I never heard the term.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Strange numbers
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2010, 09:58:08 PM »
02/23 Tests confirmed
02/25 VL 13100 CD4 220 24%
03/12 VL 19800 CD4 372 19%
03/26 Started Atripla
04/30 VL 58 CD4 286 23%


The US treatment guidelines suggest that a change is significant if
-  CD4 count changes by more than 30% up or down -- you stayed inside this range, so it is probably just random fluctuation
- CD4 percentage changes by more than +/- 3% -- your percent went up 4% post Atripla which is significant
- viral load changes by a multiple of about 3 or more -- you had a great change in viral load resulting from the Atripla of over 2 orders of magnitude.  This is about what is expected when things are working right.

So looks like things are going well!

5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline Realist

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    • NotDownNotOut's Blog
Re: Strange numbers
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2010, 02:26:39 AM »
What is a "discordant responder".  Something you read  about somwhere?  I never heard the term.

Apparently your are termed to have a discordant reponse to treatment if your VL goes down but your CD4 count doesn't go up or your CD4 goes up but your VL does not go down significantly.
23/02/10 Tests confirmed
25/02/10 13100 220 24%
12/03/10 19800 372 19%
26/03/10 Atripla
30/04/10 58 286 23%
28/05/10 45 222 21%
25/06/10 UD 301 23%
24/09/10 UD 283 22%
01/12/10 UD 319 23%
11/03/11 UD 293 28%
10/06/11 UD 423 24%
23/08/11 UD 389 26%
28/02/11 UD 315 34%

I blogged it all http://notdownnotout.blogspot.com

Offline Realist

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  • Posts: 162
    • NotDownNotOut's Blog
Re: Strange numbers
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2010, 11:57:28 AM »
Do you have an idea for how long you've had HIV before the actual diagnosis?

Really not sure - I think November 08 (long story). Makes me wonder if I had a low starting point to begin with. All's fair in the gene pool lottery I guess.
23/02/10 Tests confirmed
25/02/10 13100 220 24%
12/03/10 19800 372 19%
26/03/10 Atripla
30/04/10 58 286 23%
28/05/10 45 222 21%
25/06/10 UD 301 23%
24/09/10 UD 283 22%
01/12/10 UD 319 23%
11/03/11 UD 293 28%
10/06/11 UD 423 24%
23/08/11 UD 389 26%
28/02/11 UD 315 34%

I blogged it all http://notdownnotout.blogspot.com

Offline Realist

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  • Posts: 162
    • NotDownNotOut's Blog
Re: Strange numbers - Just Got Worse ???
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2010, 11:20:31 AM »
So, I only had nine more days to wait before I went back to get the results from may 28th but decided to call to get them. CD4 still going the wrong way! Just can't figure it out.  ???
23/02/10 Tests confirmed
25/02/10 13100 220 24%
12/03/10 19800 372 19%
26/03/10 Atripla
30/04/10 58 286 23%
28/05/10 45 222 21%
25/06/10 UD 301 23%
24/09/10 UD 283 22%
01/12/10 UD 319 23%
11/03/11 UD 293 28%
10/06/11 UD 423 24%
23/08/11 UD 389 26%
28/02/11 UD 315 34%

I blogged it all http://notdownnotout.blogspot.com

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Strange numbers - Just Got Worse ???
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2010, 05:51:20 PM »
So, I only had nine more days to wait before I went back to get the results from may 28th but decided to call to get them. CD4 still going the wrong way! Just can't figure it out.  ???

Test again on the 28th of this month. You need to build up a body of numbers to determine what's really happening.

MtD

Offline Realist

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    • NotDownNotOut's Blog
Re: Strange numbers - Just Got Worse ???
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2010, 02:47:10 PM »
You need to build up a body of numbers to determine what's really happening.

I understand the principle of this, but it's not like my concerns are due to one result. I just can't get my head round why they are all over the place and why the CD4 is in free-fall with the VL.
23/02/10 Tests confirmed
25/02/10 13100 220 24%
12/03/10 19800 372 19%
26/03/10 Atripla
30/04/10 58 286 23%
28/05/10 45 222 21%
25/06/10 UD 301 23%
24/09/10 UD 283 22%
01/12/10 UD 319 23%
11/03/11 UD 293 28%
10/06/11 UD 423 24%
23/08/11 UD 389 26%
28/02/11 UD 315 34%

I blogged it all http://notdownnotout.blogspot.com

Offline Assurbanipal

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  • Taking a forums break, still see PM's
Re: Strange numbers
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2010, 09:38:22 PM »
I understand the principle of this, but it's not like my concerns are due to one result. I just can't get my head round why they are all over the place and why the CD4 is in free-fall with the VL.
I'm sure its extremely nervous making for you, but really it doesn't help you to be thinking of your CD4 as being in freefall.  It isn't. You had one high reading and otherwise it has been stable -- so has your percentage.

The only thing in freefall is your viral load.  And that is all to the good.  

Be well.
A
« Last Edit: June 19, 2010, 11:10:00 AM by Assurbanipal »
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline mewithu

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Re: Strange numbers
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2010, 12:25:36 AM »
 I think your doing rather well. It takes time to get used to numbers and such. It also depends on what time of the day and evrything else that make a difference when you have blood work so if you do get a strange reading some day don't panic it could be a blurp in the test or anything. Your doing fine don't worry.
1997 is when I found out, being deathly ill. I had to go to the hospital due to extreme headache and fever. I fell coma like,  two months later weighing 95 pounds and in extreme pain and awoke to knowledge of Pancreatis, Cryptococcal Meningitis, Thrush,Severe Diarea,  Wasting, PCP pneumonia. No eating, only through tpn. Very sick, I was lucky I had good insurance with the company I worked for. I was in the hospital for three months that time. 
(2010 Now doing OK cd4=210  VL= < 75)
I have become resistant to many nukes and non nukes, Now on Reyataz, , Combivir. Working well for me not too many side effects.  I have the wasting syndrome, Fatigue  . Hard to deal with but believe it or not I have been through worse. Three Pulmonary Embolism's in my life. 2012 520 t's <20 V load

 


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