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Author Topic: Bug Chaser? Crazy Bxxxxxd!  (Read 13752 times)

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Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Bug Chaser? Crazy Bxxxxxd!
« Reply #50 on: June 03, 2010, 03:09:38 PM »
The crazy assumptions of what I have said or haven't said, and what they mean in a larger context, by Marco are utterly fascinating I must say.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline alliance

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Re: Bug Chaser? Crazy Bxxxxxd!
« Reply #51 on: June 03, 2010, 03:10:36 PM »
Anderson Cooper: Where does he get those perceptions?  Do you think there something in Aids education  as it has been thus far that is sending out the wrong message?
Filmmaker: Definitely. That is totally the problem and that is why I made this documentary.
Anderson Cooper:  What is the wrong message, what is the message being sent out in your opinion?
Filmmaker: That  Hiv is a livable illness, that it's not a problem to get it, that we've made it so positive to be positive.

I don't get this lady's logic. It seems like I have spent the last six months or so  - since testing positive-- being told, convinced, and telling and convincing others exactly what she says is the wrong message.   So who's right? What's the right message? I hope she makes a documentary some day about living with HIV, from a positive  perspective as well.  Isn't she perpetuating the stigma with statements like this?

She can make any movie she wants as long as it's factual, and I'm sure it is. But I think her take on  living with the bug is unhelpful to those infected. I never wanted this - never knew anyone that wanted it.  And never wanted the stigma associated with it.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 03:13:37 PM by alliance »
"The influence of each human being on others in this life is a kind of immortality."
10/10/12   CD4=378  %=32   VL=UD
5/10/12     CD4=426  %=32  VL=UD
11/15/11   CD4=296  %=29  VL=UD(20)
6/15/11     CD4=345  %=29  VL=UD(38)
3/15/11     CD4=317  %=31  VL=UD
12/1/10     CD4=315  %=28  VL=UD
8/11/10     CD4=250  %=25  VL=UD
6/10/10     CD4=380  %=24  VL=UD
3/4/10       CD4=340  %=22   VL=UD
1/11/10     CD4=312  %=22   VL =130
11/30/09   CD4=228  %=19  VL=1726
11/20/09    started atripla
10/15/09   CD4=281  %=18   VL=85,000

Offline MarcoPoz

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Re: Bug Chaser? Crazy Bxxxxxd!
« Reply #52 on: June 03, 2010, 03:26:50 PM »
I guess maybe I have a simplistic, yet at the same time, complex view of risk perception relative to HIV.  I've always thought it was more of a 'gut' thing than a 'head' thing.  I mean to say, that I've always thought that our risk/benefit choices come from more of a psych-emotional place than strictly from an intellectual/logical process.

In this understanding, risk for HIV would be mitigated through a lens of desire, lust, love, search for intimacy, increased bonding, communication, physical communion, hunger, increasing self esteem, validity seeking along with the good ol' need to just fuck and cum.

One may 'know' intellectually that there MAY be a certain level of risk for HIV or STDs in a behavior, but placed up against the issues listed above, they can really get rationalized away.  In my opinion, this is why we have the conundrum of "knowing doesn't equal doing".


But hey, I'm just a srtaight guy who has been living with HIV close to 20 years and is reaching for an understand as to why we keep seeing more new cases--and what should we do differently.  I could be WAY out in la-la land on this.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Bug Chaser? Crazy Bxxxxxd!
« Reply #53 on: June 03, 2010, 03:36:31 PM »
I guess maybe I have a simplistic, yet at the same time, complex view of risk perception relative to HIV.  I've always thought it was more of a 'gut' thing than a 'head' thing.  I mean to say, that I've always thought that our risk/benefit choices come from more of a psych-emotional place than strictly from an intellectual/logical process.

In this understanding, risk for HIV would be mitigated through a lens of desire, lust, love, search for intimacy, increased bonding, communication, physical communion, hunger, increasing self esteem, validity seeking along with the good ol' need to just fuck and cum.

One may 'know' intellectually that there MAY be a certain level of risk for HIV or STDs in a behavior, but placed up against the issues listed above, they can really get rationalized away.  In my opinion, this is why we have the conundrum of "knowing doesn't equal doing".


But hey, I'm just a srtaight guy who has been living with HIV close to 20 years and is reaching for an understand as to why we keep seeing more new cases--and what should we do differently.  I could be WAY out in la-la land on this.


No, I agree with what you're saying there, but in the context of my post to Hellraiser that you went off on I was merely replying to his "intellectual" argument about accessing infection rate information in the context of a certain year.

I can't speak, and won't speak, for how straight people approach the issue, but with gay men (and certainly young ones) I think it has more to do with societal marginalization/closet issues even if that's less so then it was 25 years ago.  It's always there and more so in some locations than others.  I just was actually trying to get him (Hellraiser) to approach from less of an intellectual approach with my comment, so I doubt our views are as opposite as you're trying to read them.

Issues of social marginalization with sexuality also account for larger MSM infection rates with non-whites IMO, and at any age, at any location urban and rural.  Unless you figure out a way to change those views in society I don't see a great way to lower infection rates, and it pains me to say so.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 03:42:38 PM by Miss Philicia »
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline MarcoPoz

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Re: Bug Chaser? Crazy Bxxxxxd!
« Reply #54 on: June 03, 2010, 03:43:29 PM »
No, I agree with what you're saying there, but in the context of my post to Hellraiser that you went off on I was merely replying to his "intellectual" argument about accessing infection rate information in the context of a certain year.

I can't speak, and won't speak, for how straight people approach the issue, but with gay men (and certainly young ones) I think it has more to do with societal marginalization/closet issues even if that's less so then it was 25 years ago.  It's always there and more so in some locations than others.  I just was actually trying to get him (Hellraiser) to approach from less of an intellectual approach with my comment, so I doubt our views are as opposite as you're trying to read them.

Oye!  An maybe add to all of this--being young and in a LARGE way attempting to define yourself--or BE defined by others by how you have sex and who you have sex with.  Yikes.  As a young man just prior to my seroconversion, I know that a large part of my personal self-view was based on my sexual and sensual energy--that if I couldn't communicate my desires, needs and intimacy verbally, I could do it sensually and sexually.  Could have been at the root of my infection-related behavior and choices?????   Is this much different for gay men or women?
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 03:45:11 PM by MarcoPoz »

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Bug Chaser? Crazy Bxxxxxd!
« Reply #55 on: June 03, 2010, 03:51:30 PM »
Anderson Cooper:  What is the wrong message, what is the message being sent out in your opinion?
Filmmaker: That  Hiv is a livable illness, that it's not a problem to get it, that we've made it so positive to be positive.

I don't get this lady's logic.

I agree. As I said, I have not researched this topic but I find it difficult to believe that these men are seeking out infection because HIV is no big deal. One, it is a big deal and there is huge stigma associated with HIV. Two, these men obviously have psychological issues. For example, for someone with an anxiety disorder or obsessive/compulsive tendencies the anxiety surrounding becoming infected can be so overwhelming that becoming HIV+ can actually bring temporary relief. Let me be clear, I'm not talking about people who are having sex for pleasure or procreation and happen to get HIV, I'm talking about people who have sex for the purpose of contracting HIV.

Offline mecch

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Re: Bug Chaser? Crazy Bxxxxxd!
« Reply #56 on: June 03, 2010, 04:20:44 PM »
Well the walking skeletons in San Francisco 1985 knocked it into me as well as the very hardline black&white clear safe sex message and the knowledge that HIV = Death.

But then we arrive at 2000 and the reality is different.  One result was we go that weird bugchaser meme.

And now here we are 10 years into "HIV infection can be manageable" -- but we certainly have not managed a good universal message that persuades that you, yes you, hiv- person who thinks it doesn't concern you, it concerns you.  The information on the result of an HIV infection is considerably more complex to transmit.

Maybe the message to anyone today should just be honest listing of the known facts and possible risks of having an HIV infection. It should apply both to HIV- and HIV+ people.  

Maybe the message to a bug chaser, if they still exist, is that an HIV+ diagnosis is going to deliver jack shit when it comes to community or lifestyle, or sexual, psychological or spiritual fulfillment.

I dont know what to think about the HIV+ gay guys I've met in some European cities who give a rats ass about having HIV, nor about "protecting" others.  This is hardly the mainstream but the feeling is this group is larger in certain places than in other.  For these, certain priorities are more important (party, no limit sex, sexual fulfillment as they define it, etc. or even "I am not in anyway defined by a virus") and avoiding HIV is lower on the priority because for the moment an HIV infection is so manageable, given socialised medicine, etc etc.   In other words, a mixture of being blase and calm and informed about HIV.  In a perverse logic, this is progress - both a medical and a psychological and social improvement.  From a more global epidemiological perspective, and from a long-term -- we dont know whats down the road for those on HAART from 2005, say, to death --- perspective, its quite worrisome.

« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 04:22:28 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Bug Chaser? Crazy Bxxxxxd!
« Reply #57 on: June 03, 2010, 05:34:20 PM »
This was just my personal experience.  To put things in perspective I was probably 16 or 17 when I started thinking I might be gay and about 18 when I acted on it.  The would put the timeline at 1997-1999 and at the time the internet was in its infancy.  I wasn't hooking up online because the only thing I recall from those days were yahoo personals.  My exposure to gay culture at that point consisted of Will and Grace and Pedro Zamora (who I knew was hiv+ but who once again was associated with larger metropolitan areas in my mind).  It wasn't that I had 0 knowledge of the disease, but that it seemed so foreign.  I'm not sure that you understand the remoteness of the community that I grew up in, but I have to travel 50-80 miles by highway/interstate in order to reach cities with more than 100,000 people.  I guess the analogy I could make is say Malaria.  We all know Malaria exists but we're not concerned about it.  Why?  Because it doesn't happen here.  It happens over ----> there.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Bug Chaser? Crazy Bxxxxxd!
« Reply #58 on: June 03, 2010, 11:40:29 PM »
While we're on the topic of safe/unsafe sex, do you guys believe this study?  It says over 60% of men who have sex with men in NYC use condoms.  From people I know personally, I would put that number around 40% with 60% not using condoms.  Well, I know many who will use them sometimes and then not use them.  I realize I only know a limited number of people, though.

http://www.poz.com/articles/condom_analsex_HIV_1_18506.shtml

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Bug Chaser? Crazy Bxxxxxd!
« Reply #59 on: June 03, 2010, 11:52:23 PM »
I use the rhythm method instead of condoms

Offline mecch

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Re: Bug Chaser? Crazy Bxxxxxd!
« Reply #60 on: June 04, 2010, 06:34:03 AM »
While we're on the topic of safe/unsafe sex, do you guys believe this study?  It says over 60% of men who have sex with men in NYC use condoms.  From people I know personally, I would put that number around 40% with 60% not using condoms.  Well, I know many who will use them sometimes and then not use them.  I realize I only know a limited number of people, though.

http://www.poz.com/articles/condom_analsex_HIV_1_18506.shtml

Seems perfectly believable to me.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Bug Chaser? Crazy Bxxxxxd!
« Reply #61 on: June 04, 2010, 07:18:14 AM »
I use the rhythm method instead of condoms
lol  you're so bad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

“Neither look forward where there is doubt nor backward where there is regret. Look inward and ask not if there is anything o

Offline averagejoe1977

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Re: Bug Chaser? Crazy Bxxxxxd!
« Reply #62 on: June 04, 2010, 10:27:00 AM »
I've heard of this phenomenon. Seriously messed up. I certainly do not consider my HIV as a 'gift'. :/

Offline sharkdiver

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Re: Bug Chaser? Crazy Bxxxxxd!
« Reply #63 on: June 04, 2010, 11:17:35 AM »
But when you really think about it,

   If you were having unsafe sex after the "creation" of the list of behaviors that were described as unsafe and got infected  you would essentially be considered a bugchaser.   

oh and I hate the term "gift" almost as much as "full blown AIDS"

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Bug Chaser? Crazy Bxxxxxd!
« Reply #64 on: June 04, 2010, 11:58:32 AM »
oh and I hate the term "gift" almost as much as "full blown AIDS"

Is the correct term advanced HIV disease?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Bug Chaser? Crazy Bxxxxxd!
« Reply #65 on: June 04, 2010, 12:41:35 PM »
Is the correct term advanced HIV disease?
All are synonyms.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Bug Chaser? Crazy Bxxxxxd!
« Reply #66 on: June 04, 2010, 01:35:41 PM »
All are synonyms.

I love synonym toast!!
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

 


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