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Author Topic: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT  (Read 9369 times)

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Offline tednlou2

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Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« on: May 29, 2010, 03:23:46 AM »
At first, this would seem like it should go in the "Off Topic" forum, and there is a thread there about Don't Ask.  However, I was saddened to hear that a group is trying to fan fears about gays in the military by using HIV.  I was offended by this and feel it could gain traction with republican congressmen--and some dems. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/ns/msnbc_tv-countdown_with_keith_olbermann#37389953

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2010, 03:30:07 AM »
You wanna be saddened? Do as I do. Subscribe to the daily email Loonycasts from the Family Research Council.

Yikes!

MtD

Offline Ann

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2010, 10:30:45 AM »
Keith Olbermann should be required viewing for every person living in America. He rocks.
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2010, 11:38:45 AM »
Well, it was expected.  But there is a petition for "Don't Ask Don't Tell." 

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/repealdadt

During his State of the Union address, President Obama pledged to repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." Now, we have a chance to help make good on that promise.

The House of Representatives and the Senate Armed Services Committee have already voted in favor of repeal, and debate in the Senate will soon start. But some Republicans have already announced their plans to block the repeal.

We can defeat those who'd stand in the way of history. But we must show our senators that Americans -- in every state -- overwhelmingly support repeal.

Join the President's pledge to repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" today
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

“Neither look forward where there is doubt nor backward where there is regret. Look inward and ask not if there is anything o

Offline newt

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2010, 10:34:56 PM »
Ahem, like some of them straight Navy boys aint got a whore in every port...hmmmm
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline mecch

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2010, 06:01:38 AM »
I thought all service men were routinely tested.
I thought HIV+ people can't join the services.
And that servicemen/women who serocovert during service are NOT discharged, but are removed from combat.

Also, it would be very brave indeed if the service actually published statistics about HIV infection in the current ranks.

So where is the threat?
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline bocker3

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2010, 09:15:46 AM »
Well hell....

who knew that I was supposed to be going around fondling and fellating all these sleeping soldiers?  I wasted my time insuring my platoon of medics were able to treat any injured grunts from the battalion we supported.

don't know why anyone is expecting logic or facts to rule -- these folks don't care about facts -- they simply say whatever it takes to instill fear.

Mike
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Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2010, 03:53:23 PM »
Well apparently all fags and dykes are deranged sociopathic killers.

For the record I have an injunction setting Godwin's Law aside for the purposes of this post.

MtD

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2010, 12:14:05 AM »
Performing oral sex on a sleeping person?  Well, I know guys get several hard-ons while sleeping, but it would seem like you'd know someone was sucking you unless you were on Ambien or something.  Even then, it seems like you'd know. 

 

Offline Ravhyn

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2010, 04:01:38 AM »
I know with the army you are tested pre deployment and after a deployment for HIV.  If you test positive while in the service you are not discharged but you remain stateside for the rest of your time in and they basically give you a desk job. 

you can't join positive though, I know trust me I would be back in, in a heartbeat if they let HIV positive people in. 

Even my husband because I am positive is treated as a risk factor. He's been put in a job where he can't cut himself or anything and has to carry a first aid kit around in his trunk and be tested every three months because I am positive. 
April 2006 - Sero-Conversion
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Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2010, 09:07:39 AM »
We have nothing to fear but fear itself.... Unless it's self-serving fear...  Their argument does not hold water.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

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Offline blackwingbear

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2010, 07:38:53 PM »
These are the same folks who rely on fear-tactics for everything they do - Is anyone really surprised? ???
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2010, 05:50:54 AM »
Only at how big a following they have.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

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Offline mecch

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2010, 08:18:49 AM »
Yes and Im certain the gulf oil spill is the responsibility of tina snorting HIV+ gays in the Mineral and Mines.

Damn those pozzies they are ruining the world.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline blackwingbear

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2010, 01:27:56 PM »
Yes and Im certain the gulf oil spill is the responsibility of tina snorting HIV+ gays in the Mineral and Mines.

Damn those pozzies they are ruining the world.

Don't worry, the talking-heads will ask James Cameron how to fix them..  ;D
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline Moffie65

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2010, 03:11:17 PM »
What surprises me about this thread, is the number of people who are exressing surprise about this. 

We have fought hard and long to squash idiocy around HIV.  Ever since many of us died in the first onslaught in the late 1970's, we have had to fight for everything we have, including an intelligent approach to the pandemic.  We have lived through Reagan, Bush #1, Clinton being severely curtailed during his 8 years, and then the prize, The Weed/Cheney.  Every adminstration since the beginning has dragged their feet about HIV and its impact on this country, and now this. 

Time for some of the young ones around here to stand up, get involved, and get angry.  No accomplishments around the curbing of the pandemic, nor any policy decisions have been accomplished without the ACTIVE participation of HIV+s, so now it is you younger people's turn.  Get busy.

Tim
U.S. Army Veteran.
Viet Nam Era.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2010, 04:44:02 PM »
Look, I am a bit nervous about Openly Gay Men in the military but maybe that is the way I was brainwashed.  I would just like to see it happen and see if the military will fall apart or just learn to cope with a population that have the govt backing. As a former sailor, if I had to worry about someone sucking my dick while I was asleep, not that I wouldn't want this, I would wear an alarm or tighter underwear to prevent it.  I believe the only thing stopping the Openly Gay policy is fear of the unknown or fear that enlistment will drop. Or it's a matter of pride to protect what has always been a bias policy against a certain group or people. However, we must fight for "Let our right to join and serve ring out. And when this happens, and when we get our pride and our respect, when we let it ring from every village and every town, from every state and every city, and from Continent to Continent we will be able to see the day when all human kind, gays and straights , Bis and Transvestites , Queers and Steers, will be able to join hands and yell in the words of the what has to be: "Free to join! Free to serve for the military as we are! It's about time but, we are getting our right to be counted as a real member of this society!"
« Last Edit: June 02, 2010, 04:52:56 PM by red_Dragon888 »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

“Neither look forward where there is doubt nor backward where there is regret. Look inward and ask not if there is anything o

Offline blackwingbear

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2010, 04:47:58 PM »
Look, I am a bit nervous about Openly Gay Men in the military but maybe that is the way I was brainwashed.  I would just like to see it happen and see if the military will fall apart or just learn to cope with a population that have the govt backing.  As a former sailor, if I had to worry about someone sucking my dick while I was asleep, not that i wouldn't want that, I would wear an alarm or tighter underwear to prevent it.  I believe the only thing stopping the Openly Gay policy is fear of the unknown or fear that enlistment will drop.  Or it's a matter of pride to protect what has always been.  However, we must fight for "Let freedom ring. And when this happens, and when we allow freedom ring?when we let it ring from every village and every town, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all human kind?gay men and stright men, Bis and Transvitites , Queers and Steers?will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the what has to be: "Free to join! Free to serve for the military as we are! It's about time but, we are getting our right to be counted as a real member of this society!"

I seriously doubt anyone would WANT to suck you off, asleep or not.
 ::)

Apparently, you are one of those heterosexuals that think all homosexuals are rapists.
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2010, 04:52:00 PM »
I seriously doubt anyone would WANT to suck you off, asleep or not.
 ::)

Apparently, you are one of those heterosexuals that think all homosexuals are rapists.
Not hetero, Homo, and I was just pointing out what they will say to keep Gays out of the military.  

P.S. I have been.   ;)
« Last Edit: June 02, 2010, 04:55:08 PM by red_Dragon888 »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

“Neither look forward where there is doubt nor backward where there is regret. Look inward and ask not if there is anything o

Offline blackwingbear

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2010, 04:57:49 PM »
Not hetero, Homo, and I was just pointing out what they will say to keep Gays out of the military.  

P.S. I have been.   ;)

Ah, sorry didn't recognize the sarcasm... Should have!
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2010, 05:15:27 PM »
Ah, sorry didn't recognize the sarcasm... Should have!

No Problem...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

“Neither look forward where there is doubt nor backward where there is regret. Look inward and ask not if there is anything o

Offline Ann

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2010, 08:45:11 AM »

Time for some of the young ones around here to stand up, get involved, and get angry.



Time for some of the young ones around here to stand up, get involved, and get angry.



Time for some of the young ones around here to stand up, get involved, and get angry.


Thanks, Moff, well worth repeating.


Look, I am a bit nervous about Openly Gay Men in the military but maybe that is the way I was brainwashed.  I would just like to see it happen and see if the military will fall apart or just learn to cope with a population that have the govt backing.


Eh? I hope you were being "sarcastic" here too. Gay men have served in the military since ... year dot ... and the military hasn't fallen apart. If gay men - and women - can be open about who they are, it's only going to strengthen  the military and it's about high time people realised that. It's a no-brainer - well, when you have some brains in the first place, I guess. :o
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2010, 09:13:37 AM »
I personally know so many gay men in the military that I sometimes wonder how many straight people actually serve anymore.  DADT is a joke of epic proportions.  I'm a little confused as to why HIV is something that can keep you out of the military, do they similarly disqualify diabetics?  I honestly don't know the answer to that question as the military never really appealed to me due to my very anti-authoritarian nature.

Anyway, I think DADT will be gone this year or the next.

PS:  I promise if the draft were reinstated they wouldn't use homosexuality as a disqualifier because every guy who wanted out would just say they were gay.  I was just WAITING for the bush administration to start drafting for the Iraq and Afghan wars just to see that particular turn of play.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 09:16:05 AM by Hellraiser »

Offline blackwingbear

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2010, 11:07:59 AM »
PS:  I promise if the draft were reinstated they wouldn't use homosexuality as a disqualifier because every guy who wanted out would just say they were gay.  I was just WAITING for the bush administration to start drafting for the Iraq and Afghan wars just to see that particular turn of play.

There was an old joke (I'm horrible at telling jokes, so if anyone else has heard this..): One day a young man was drafted into the war. He really didn't want to go, so when he reported to the office he told the lead officer during the physical examination that he was gay, a pacifist and flat-footed. "So am I. Unfortunately for both of us that doesn't work during the draft - NEXT!" :)
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2010, 02:16:49 PM »
Thanks, Moff, well worth repeating.

Eh? I hope you were being "sarcastic" here too. Gay men have served in the military since ... year dot ... and the military hasn't fallen apart. If gay men - and women - can be open about who they are, it's only going to strengthen  the military and it's about high time people realised that. It's a no-brainer - well, when you have some brains in the first place, I guess. :o
Sorry I meant Openly Gay...  Does the British or Australian Military have openingly recurits?
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 07:13:34 AM by red_Dragon888 »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

“Neither look forward where there is doubt nor backward where there is regret. Look inward and ask not if there is anything o

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2010, 07:14:59 AM »
http://my.barackobama.com/RepealDADT-share

During his State of the Union address, President Obama pledged to repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." Now, we have a chance to help make good on that promise.

The House of Representatives and the Senate Armed Services Committee have already voted in favor of repeal, and debate in the Senate will soon start. But some Republicans have already announced their plans to block the repeal.

We can defeat those who'd stand in the way of history. But we must show our senators that Americans -- in every state -- overwhelmingly support repeal.

Join the President's pledge to repeal "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

“Neither look forward where there is doubt nor backward where there is regret. Look inward and ask not if there is anything o

Offline Ann

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2010, 07:42:01 AM »

Does the British or Australian Military have openingly recurits?


Like the U.S. military, the British Services is an all-volunteer force comprised of army, air force and navy contingents. Until January, 2000, when Britain lifted its gay ban following a ruling by the European Court of Human Rights, gay and lesbian soldiers were prohibited from serving in the British Armed Forces.

The first ten months of the new policy have been an unqualified success. The military's own classified, internal assessment at six months found that the new policy has "been hailed as a solid achievement" (Ministry of Defense, 2000e, p. 2). There have been no indications of negative effects on recruiting levels. No mass resignations have occurred. There have been no major reported cases of gay-bashing or harassment of sexual minorities. There have been no major reported cases of harassment or inappropriate behavior by gay or lesbian soldiers. There has been no perceived effect on morale, unit cohesion or operational effectiveness. The policy change has been characterized by a "marked lack of reaction" (Ministry of Defense, 2000e, p. 2).
read more

From a year ago at Queerty...

Just to keep you up to date on how antiquated America's Don't Ask Don't Tell law is, not only do other nations like Germany, Israel, Argentina, and the United Kingdom  allow gays to serve their countries openly, but at least one is going the extra step to make them feel utterly at home.  The Australian Defence Force is pushing forward a two-day conference focusing on the needs of sexual minorities serving in the military. Now that "equality" is, like, just a passe topic with gays there serving openly, the conference will focus on health, family, and well-being. Really, well-being! Can you imagine America's armed forces caring about the well-being of its GLBT soldiers? Conservatives would just call that "babying."


There's a lot of info on DADT as well as GLBTs in the military in general at The Palm Center

Ann
(Who wonders if only Philly and she have interwebbie machines that can access Google)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 07:44:19 AM by Ann »
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mecch

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2010, 08:08:22 AM »
Seems to be a minority that has too much power. I bet then percentage of people actively against gays in the military is low.  I bet most military officers don't see DADT as justified. I think most senators are playing politics and they don't give a crap whatsoever about the military and would perfer their children not serve.

The point of civil rights LEGISLATION is to legislate civil rights and then let the society figure out how to deal with the new reality.  I bet most women in the military have no problem with gays/lesbians in the military. For the male soldiers it might bug, they can roll their eyes and shut the fuck up which they will do because its more important to follow military codes than to act in ways against it.  End of story. Let the few remaining senators and generals shit their panties in silence, and forget about them.  Before long one of their ranks will be gay or lesbian and TOUGH SHIT on them.

If anyone had a personal problem reported to Gen Colin Powell they kept their small minded traps shut.

Pity that the USA is supposed to be global superpower but the military lacks the balls to take homos in stride. Germany, Israel and the UK are all known for fierce ballsy armed forces so the US should stop being such a Mary about Marys
« Last Edit: June 04, 2010, 08:13:44 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2010, 09:07:42 AM »
Sorry I meant Openly Gay...  Does the British or Australian Military have openingly recurits?

The ban on queers in the Australian military was lifted in 1993. I was involved in the campaign.

MtD

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2010, 10:37:33 AM »
I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative if the republicans played their cards right and made gay marriage legal, went for universal healthcare, and repealed all these homophobic laws they could probably pick up more gay votes than they could shake a stick at.  They just can't shake that fundamental christian tree, can they?

Offline Moffie65

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2010, 01:09:52 PM »
Look, I am a bit nervous about Openly Gay Men in the military but maybe that is the way I was brainwashed.  

Oh dear, I realize you are Gay, but where the hell did this thought train come from.

It was 1968, and I was assigned to an Electronic Maintenance group near Stuttgart, Germany.  I was mostly out in that everyone in the company knew for sure that I was indeed one of the Gays in the group.  One Saturday morning the company commander, an Attorney from South Dakota, sat down to have breakfast with me, and in a meeting in his office after we were done; asked me to council one of the troops, a Native American from New Mexico, about his penchant for sneaking up on some of the personnel in their sleep and sucking them off.  One of the more inflexible troops, sort of like you Dragon, complained and filed a formal complaint against him.  A formal complaint made it very difficult for the commanding officer because he knew that it would be the end of the line, and career for this poor Indian who had showed pretty bad judgement.  The commander also knew that the guy was a very important person in the Navajo tribe and it would also be really bad for him when the news got back to New Mexico. 

So, I sat down with the Indian man and told him that if he was indeed horny that he could suck the dicks of any number of the Gays in the company, or a few of the straights who enjoyed it.  Gave him a list of names to boot.  He insisted that this particular man was the only one that turned him on, to which I explained the background of my request and that the C.O. had been the one who was more concerned about him that he seemed to be.   Then I went to the guy and pled with him to drop the formal complaint, and let him know it would be the destruction of a life.  Then I reminded him of all the times he had audibly, or out loud, very loud, complained that there was nobody in Germany to suck his dick.  I told him that next time he should just roll over and enjoy it, damn it.  He relented and said quietly that the Indian was in fact a really good blow, to which I became totally nauseated.  His ego was the only thing in danger of being hurt here. 

Later that year, many of us Gays were given private rooms on the top floor, where we were allowed to have refrigerators, and set up our rooms as we liked, while the straights who were with us there, were so accommodating and welcomed the openness of the top floor.  It became legendary.

All of this happened during the "reign" of General Westmoreland, who also allowed us to grow mustaches and have hair that was 1/2 inch long down to our necks. 

Look all of you, you need to study some history here, because Gay people have always been in the Military, and there isn't a General alive that would request a Straight assistant over a Gay one.  Them are the facts, and the hatred of the present day is the result of the Nixon and Reagan era, where Gays were flexing our wings and we were easy targets of hatred for their base, and they were not afraid to make as much hay about it as possible. 

Why the fuck do any of you pay taxes to a country that has hated and discriminated, not based on the Constitution?  I know, you all say you are powerless and must pay your taxes.  I know of many Gay people who haven't paid taxes to the Government since Nixon, so there!! 

I don't know why any of you would even think thoughts that would feed and sustain a country that hates your ass, and keeps you from enjoying the full freedoms guaranteed in the beginning of our history. 

Just my thoughts.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2010, 01:27:35 AM »
I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative if the republicans played their cards right and made gay marriage legal, went for universal healthcare, and repealed all these homophobic laws they could probably pick up more gay votes than they could shake a stick at.  They just can't shake that fundamental christian tree, can they?

I always find that repubs are skitzo.  They talk about freedom and the gov't staying out of our lives.  Yet, they want to be in our lives the most.  Most of them hated when the Supreme Court ruled the laws about anal sex were unconstitional.  Reagan ran up the debt more than all other presidents combined.  We know how Dubya doubled the debt.  Clinton had balanced the budget and was paying down the debt.  He left a huge surplus.

So, I don't know what the repubs actually stand for these days.  I think they are all like Sarah--just catch phrases and slogans.  No substance.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2010, 01:50:47 AM »
I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative if the republicans played their cards right and made gay marriage legal, went for universal healthcare, and repealed all these homophobic laws they could probably pick up more gay votes than they could shake a stick at.  They just can't shake that fundamental christian tree, can they?

Or race -- ref "raghead" comments in South Carolina against Halley
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2010, 07:04:43 AM »
I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative if the republicans played their cards right and made gay marriage legal, went for universal healthcare, and repealed all these homophobic laws they could probably pick up more gay votes than they could shake a stick at.  They just can't shake that fundamental christian tree, can they?

Dear, you're only fiscally conservate if it pertains to others. If it pertains to you, not so much. Sorta like a tea bagger.

Offline mecch

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2010, 07:59:35 AM »
The soldiers campy YouTube videos only prove the point:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/05/opinion/05blow.html?hp
Gay? Whatever, Dude
By CHARLES M. BLOW
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Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2010, 10:01:08 AM »
Oh dear, I realize you are Gay, but where the hell did this thought train come from.


My thought process came from seeing military doing everything they Can to hurt, humiliate, and fuck over anyone who was considered gay.  There was one male couple who were caught having sex on the USS Kitty Hawk.  Once they were let out of the brig, they we isolated from all contact from fellow sailors for fear of association, until they were allowed off the ship and kick-out of the Navy.  This was probably supported and enforced by the Command.  It is not my personal belief that there can't be Openly Gay men in the Military, I hope it will happen but when I was there in 1980, there was a strong bias against anyone looking, acting, or suspected of being gay.  I myself was suspected to be gay and was ostracised by fellow sailors for a short time.  But if what happend in the other contries are true, then I have hope that one day DADT will become a thing of the dismal past.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

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Offline Ann

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2010, 10:15:28 AM »

when I was there in 1980, there was a strong bias against anyone looking, acting, or suspected of being gay. 


Well yeah, because if a person was gay, they'd be kicked out. If one could be openly gay with no such repercussions, the "strong bias" would end. See how that works?
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline blackwingbear

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2010, 11:03:58 AM »
I always find that repubs are skitzo.  They talk about freedom and the gov't staying out of our lives.  Yet, they want to be in our lives the most.  Most of them hated when the Supreme Court ruled the laws about anal sex were unconstitional.  Reagan ran up the debt more than all other presidents combined.  We know how Dubya doubled the debt.  Clinton had balanced the budget and was paying down the debt.  He left a huge surplus.So, I don't know what the repubs actually stand for these days.  I think they are all like Sarah--just catch phrases and slogans.  No substance.

Same thing with big business - they claim they stand for individual freedom, yet they vote in the direction of corporations.... Over individual people. Places like Mossville, LA, are a direct result of Republicans voting for big-business over individual rights. They're rhetoric doesn't stand-up when it come to lobbyists' payoffs.
 :-[
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2010, 04:00:45 PM »
Dear, you're only fiscally conservate if it pertains to others. If it pertains to you, not so much. Sorta like a tea bagger.

What a nasty baseless accusation to make.

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2010, 08:55:31 AM »
Well yeah, because if a person was gay, they'd be kicked out. If one could be openly gay with no such repercussions, the "strong bias" would end. See how that works?
Sweetheart, Back then there was no DADT.  Actually, expect if caught in the act, the Navy didn't do much.  You just got harassed, or ignored by fellow sailors.  And you'd make your own friends with people you trusted and liked you.  But I wish I was in the Navy if that "Strong Bias" did not exist.  I would of had a great sex life in there.  I mean it would have been an orgy every weekend, if not everyday.  A man in CrackerJacks is a turn on for me.
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Offline Ann

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2010, 09:01:53 AM »

Sweetheart


Darling, I'm no sweetheart. ;)
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2010, 09:11:34 AM »
There was an old joke (I'm horrible at telling jokes, so if anyone else has heard this..): One day a young man was drafted into the war. He really didn't want to go, so when he reported to the office he told the lead officer during the physical examination that he was gay, a pacifist and flat-footed. "So am I. Unfortunately for both of us that doesn't work during the draft - NEXT!" :)
There was another old joke in 1981 told to me by a Chief Petty Officer in the Navy where a Sailor wanted out of the Navy and decided to tell the Navy Commander in charge that he was gay.  The Commander said "OK," and asked the sailor to drop his pants and turn around.  The sailor did as ordered.  At this time the Commander just watched the sailor ass.  The Sailor got nervous, pulled up his pants and left the office.  This was, and it was before DADT, to let us Sailors know that saying you're Gay is not the way to get out of the Navy, for the Commander or whom ever will embarrass you and may fuck your ass.  But I always wonder what if they did fucked and enjoyed it.  It sounded more like and incentive to me.  lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

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Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2010, 09:15:11 AM »
Darling, I'm no sweetheart. ;)
OK Beautiful   ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

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Offline Ann

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2010, 09:37:28 AM »

OK Beautiful   ;)


That's better, handsome. ;D
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2010, 09:40:04 AM »
Darling, I'm no sweetheart. ;)

Well now you're just wrong

Offline Ann

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2010, 09:50:38 AM »


Well now you're just wrong


Yeah, well, it happens on the rare occasion.  :-\


It's my understanding that navies around the world have had a long-standing "tradition" of men having sex with each other aboard ship, even men who would otherwise have sex with women while ashore. Something not much talked about though, and dealt with by not so much a DADT-type policy, but rather a "look the other way" policy. Am I mistaken? Hope not, don't want to be wrong twice on one day - that would set a record. ;D


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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mecch

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2010, 12:34:39 PM »
Guess you know Paul Cadmus's famous canvas:  The Fleet's In



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Cadmus

In 1934 he painted The Fleet's In! while working for the Public Works of Art Project of the WPA. This painting, featuring carousing sailors, women, and a homosexual couple, was the subject of a public outcry and was removed from exhibition at the Corcoran Gallery. The publicity helped to launch his career. He worked in commercial illustration as well, but Jared French, another tempera artist who befriended him and became his lover for a time, convinced him to devote himself completely to fine art.[1]


THE PAINTING IS ON DISPLAY IN THE NATIONAL NAVY ART GALLERY - so yeah it seems no big deal as long as it isn't publically a big deal, as it is these days, because we have to dismantle DADT.  Well, you have to break some eggs to make an omelete. Can't happen fast enough.  
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2010, 08:36:08 AM »
1,000,000 Strong for Repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell (DADT)
http://www.facebook.com/Citizens4RepealDADT?ref=search&v=wall#!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

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Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2010, 05:25:54 PM »
Guess you know Paul Cadmus's famous canvas:  The Fleet's In



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Cadmus

In 1934 he painted The Fleet's In! while working for the Public Works of Art Project of the WPA. This painting, featuring carousing sailors, women, and a homosexual couple, was the subject of a public outcry and was removed from exhibition at the Corcoran Gallery. The publicity helped to launch his career. He worked in commercial illustration as well, but Jared French, another tempera artist who befriended him and became his lover for a time, convinced him to devote himself completely to fine art.[1]


THE PAINTING IS ON DISPLAY IN THE NATIONAL NAVY ART GALLERY - so yeah it seems no big deal as long as it isn't publically a big deal, as it is these days, because we have to dismantle DADT.  Well, you have to break some eggs to make an omelete. Can't happen fast enough.  
Nice Painting...  Ahh the good old days.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

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Offline blackwingbear

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Re: Groups Using Fear about HIV in Regards to DADT
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2010, 05:46:18 PM »
Nice Painting...  Ahh the good old days.

I personally feel things have gotten MORE conservative and backwards... :-\
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

 


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