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Author Topic: Urge Obama to fire avowed homophobe Jonathan I. Katz  (Read 3879 times)

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Offline madbrain

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Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Urge Obama to fire avowed homophobe Jonathan I. Katz
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2010, 04:09:31 PM »
http://salsa.wiredforchange.com/o/6006/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=1801

You can see what he has written about AIDS there :

http://wuphys.wustl.edu/~katz/defense.html


While he is a reprehensible dickhead, is he the person best suited for the job?  Don't let your politics get in the way of this appointment.

Offline leatherman

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Re: Urge Obama to fire avowed homophobe Jonathan I. Katz
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2010, 04:30:43 PM »
I signed the petition and emailed a bunch of friends

Don't let your politics get in the way of this appointment.
politics really has nothing to do with being a bigot, racist, or homophobe. I'm not politically against homophobes who preach their hate doctrine, I'm morally against them.  ;)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Urge Obama to fire avowed homophobe Jonathan I. Katz
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2010, 04:34:06 PM »
I signed the petition and emailed a bunch of friends
politics really has nothing to do with being a bigot, racist, or homophobe. I'm not politically against homophobes who preach their hate doctrine, I'm morally against them.  ;)

Not quite what I meant.  I mean, he's a hateful ignorant jerk.  However, if you personally don't like him and that is why you don't want him to get the job then it's politically motivated.  If he's not the best candidate for the job, then that's another matter entirely.

Offline leatherman

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Re: Urge Obama to fire avowed homophobe Jonathan I. Katz
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2010, 05:17:30 PM »
he's not the best candidate for the job, then that's another matter entirely.
and what I meant was I don't care if he's the best candidate for the job or not. A racist, a homophobe, a bigot, a murderer, a rapist - none should get the honors of such a position. Rewarding bad behavior makes it appear acceptable.

Using his own example, if Mr Katz was a member of the KKK and espoused his deep-seated belief, in writing no less, that blacks were not equal to whites and actually deserved to be discriminated against, or worse, deserved death; should that kind of person be rewarded with a federal government position of any type, much less one of such importance and honor?

I'm sure that there is another scientist, another brillant mind, that hasn't published a paper implying that HIV+ gay men are killers, that could be picked for this job which is paid for by tax payer money.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline megasept

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Re: Urge Obama to fire avowed homophobe Jonathan I. Katz
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2010, 06:04:37 PM »
and what I meant was I don't care if he's the best candidate for the job or not. A racist, a homophobe, a bigot, a murderer, a rapist - none should get the honors of such a position. Rewarding bad behavior makes it appear acceptable...I'm sure that there is another scientist, another brillant mind, that hasn't published a paper implying that HIV+ gay men are killers, that could be picked for this job which is paid for by tax payer money.

I have to agree. This is a public, high-level position (I do have a problem using political criteria for regular or low-level employees so we don't suffer still another McCarthyite black-list). I signed the petition.

Meanwhile BP has announced sticking a 5" diameter pipe to suck out some oil out of the 22" diameter leaking pipe. Yippee!

-Steven (aka    8)   megasept)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2010, 06:31:37 PM by megasept »

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Urge Obama to fire avowed homophobe Jonathan I. Katz
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2010, 06:14:50 PM »
and what I meant was I don't care if he's the best candidate for the job or not. A racist, a homophobe, a bigot, a murderer, a rapist - none should get the honors of such a position. Rewarding bad behavior makes it appear acceptable.

Using his own example, if Mr Katz was a member of the KKK and espoused his deep-seated belief, in writing no less, that blacks were not equal to whites and actually deserved to be discriminated against, or worse, deserved death; should that kind of person be rewarded with a federal government position of any type, much less one of such importance and honor?

I'm sure that there is another scientist, another brillant mind, that hasn't published a paper implying that HIV+ gay men are killers, that could be picked for this job which is paid for by tax payer money.

It's his freedom to say those things and while he can't expect to not have any personal backlash from it, if he really feels the way he does then he has the right to put it in writing.  I would never give him even a modicum of respect, however if he's the right man for this job then it's his.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Urge Obama to fire avowed homophobe Jonathan I. Katz
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2010, 07:25:32 PM »
It's his freedom to say those things and while he can't expect to not have any personal backlash from it, if he really feels the way he does then he has the right to put it in writing.  I would never give him even a modicum of respect, however if he's the right man for this job then it's his.

A climate change denier seems to be less than qualified for appointment to any position within the Department of Energy.

MtD

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Urge Obama to fire avowed homophobe Jonathan I. Katz
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2010, 07:31:53 PM »
A climate change denier seems to be less than qualified for appointment to any position within the Department of Energy.

MtD

I'm one of those people who thinks that opposing viewpoints are important.  Granted, I think the people who are denying climate change at this point are just nuts, but that's my opinion.  (Same as I feel about HIV -> AIDS denialists)

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Urge Obama to fire avowed homophobe Jonathan I. Katz
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2010, 07:34:04 PM »
I'm one of those people who thinks that opposing viewpoints are important.  Granted, I think the people who are denying climate change at this point are just nuts, but that's my opinion.  (Same as I feel about HIV -> AIDS denialists)

Presumably you think, therefore, that Inteligunt Desine should be taught alongside evolution in science classes?

MtD

/edit: grammar!/
« Last Edit: May 17, 2010, 07:38:45 PM by matty.the.damned »

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Urge Obama to fire avowed homophobe Jonathan I. Katz
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2010, 07:38:50 PM »
Presumably you think, therefore, that Inteligunt Desine, should be taught along evolution in science classes?

MtD

I think it should be debated, not taught.  Never challenging the status quo (regardless of what it is) is generally a bad idea.  The only exception to me is something that is scientifically proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.  The essential difference between scientific law and scientific theory.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Urge Obama to fire avowed homophobe Jonathan I. Katz
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2010, 07:45:12 PM »
I think it should be debated, not taught.  Never challenging the status quo (regardless of what it is) is generally a bad idea.  The only exception to me is something that is scientifically proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.  The essential difference between scientific law and scientific theory.

Scientific "law" and scientific "theory" are the same thing. In science a "theory" is as good as it gets.

I encourage you to read this Q&A by the American Association for the Advancement of Science.

In a similar vein, I suggest you watch this video in which noted neuroscientist Sam Harris addresses numerous points, including "domains of expertise".

He explains why certain opinions are not worth considering.

MtD

Offline Boze

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Re: Urge Obama to fire avowed homophobe Jonathan I. Katz
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2010, 07:54:24 PM »
1. Climate change should not be equated with evolution.

2. People who you label 'climate change deniers' don't deny that the climate is changing (it has been changing for millions of years). They are questioning whether the current change is *human* induced. That is not proven. (even though I tend to think so)

3. As far as I read he is being appointed " to an elite scientific panel that is assisting British Petroleum with the oil spill disaster in the Gulf". I don't see how his views on these issues are relevant. He may not be someone one likes, but if he comes up with the solution to the problem, should that solution be silenced because of his personal views?
==========
Aug08 - Seroconversion
Mar10 - Diagnosis; cd4 690 - VL 19,000
Apr10 - cd4 600
May10 - VL 4,500
Jun10 - started Atripla ; VL 113
Jul 10 - UD vl, CD4 590
Aug 10 - UD, CD4 810, 52%
Nov 10 - UD, CD4 980

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Urge Obama to fire avowed homophobe Jonathan I. Katz
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2010, 08:02:13 PM »
1. Climate change should not be equated with evolution.

In the context of this discussion the comparison is valid. Hellraiser supports entertaining across a range of areas oppositionist points of view no matter how ridiculous they might be. He believes there is value to be had in challenging the "status quo".

MtD

Offline Boze

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Re: Urge Obama to fire avowed homophobe Jonathan I. Katz
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2010, 08:15:25 PM »
Well the difference here is that evolution is universally accepted by every scientist as the only theory that explains how the world works. There is no consensus on whether climate change is induced by humans.
Therefore - labeling someone a creationist pretty much consign the person to the margins of scientific thought. "Climate change induced by humans" theory deniers (which is already a charged term) are probably as numerous (but definitely not an order of magnitude less) as those who believe it.
==========
Aug08 - Seroconversion
Mar10 - Diagnosis; cd4 690 - VL 19,000
Apr10 - cd4 600
May10 - VL 4,500
Jun10 - started Atripla ; VL 113
Jul 10 - UD vl, CD4 590
Aug 10 - UD, CD4 810, 52%
Nov 10 - UD, CD4 980

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Urge Obama to fire avowed homophobe Jonathan I. Katz
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2010, 08:18:48 PM »
Well the difference here is that evolution is universally accepted by every scientist as the only theory that explains how the world works. There is no consensus on whether climate change is induced by humans.
Therefore - labeling someone a creationist pretty much consign the person to the margins of scientific thought. "Climate change induced by humans" theory deniers (which is already a charged term) are probably as numerous (but definitely not an order of magnitude less) as those who believe it.

We'll have to differ as I assert there is consensus on the validity of anthropogenic global warming within the scientific community.

MtD

Offline Boze

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Re: Urge Obama to fire avowed homophobe Jonathan I. Katz
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2010, 08:28:44 PM »
Ok, you are right,

"A January 19, 2009 survey of over 3,000 scientists as listed by the American Geological Institute showed 90% agreed that global temperatures have risen in the last 200 years, and 82% agreed that human activity played a significant role" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy#Consensus

So the ratio is 4:1. Still not 1000:1 for craationism :)
==========
Aug08 - Seroconversion
Mar10 - Diagnosis; cd4 690 - VL 19,000
Apr10 - cd4 600
May10 - VL 4,500
Jun10 - started Atripla ; VL 113
Jul 10 - UD vl, CD4 590
Aug 10 - UD, CD4 810, 52%
Nov 10 - UD, CD4 980


Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Urge Obama to fire avowed homophobe Jonathan I. Katz
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2010, 09:31:36 PM »
Ok, you are right,

"A January 19, 2009 survey of over 3,000 scientists as listed by the American Geological Institute showed 90% agreed that global temperatures have risen in the last 200 years, and 82% agreed that human activity played a significant role" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy#Consensus

So the ratio is 4:1. Still not 1000:1 for craationism :)

Teh Wiki? I was working from this source but I suspect the effect is much the same.

Also good news about the shitcanning of Katz. Let him find work in one of the red states.

MtD

Offline leatherman

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Re: Urge Obama to fire avowed homophobe Jonathan I. Katz
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2010, 09:45:41 PM »
UPDATE: He's "toast"...
obviously some of us weren't the only ones to be troubled by Mr. Katz; and obviously he wasn't enough of the "end all, be all" or "solution to the problem" to be given this honor, or to even continue working on the spill issue. ;)

leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

 


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