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Author Topic: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee  (Read 4972 times)

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Offline OneTampa

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Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« on: May 10, 2010, 05:12:07 PM »
WhiteHouse.gov report here:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2010/05/10/nominating-kagan-her-passion-law-anything-academic

Of course, the "chat-chat beat a 'ma gums" from all factions started as soon as the announcement was made.
"He is my oldest child. The shy and retiring one over there with the Haitian headdress serving pescaíto frito."

Offline mecch

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2010, 05:56:22 PM »
seems exciting, though once again an ivy leaguer.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Cliff

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2010, 09:26:37 AM »
Agreed.  Perhaps amongts the 310 million or so people in the country they can find someone worthy of sitting on the bench who hasn't gone to Harvard or Yale Law.

Offline veritas

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2010, 09:51:30 AM »

You might be interested in this:

http://www.hrcbackstory.org/2010/05/hrc-praises-nomination-of-elena-kagan/

I applaud the nomination.

v

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2010, 08:14:33 PM »
Agreed.  Perhaps amongts the 310 million or so people in the country they can find someone worthy of sitting on the bench who hasn't gone to Harvard or Yale Law.
never will happen...
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Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2010, 09:10:54 PM »
What I find interesting is that should Kagan be confirmed it will be the first time the US Supreme Court has been without a protestant justice.

6 Catholics and 3 Jews.

That's one hell of a country club. :)

MtD

Offline Jody

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2010, 09:33:11 PM »
Mattala...You mean there really are Protestants out there?????? :P

Jody ;D
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Offline Boze

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2010, 03:17:52 PM »
Mecch,

should we have equal representation by IQ on the court as well?
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Online Jeff G

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2010, 03:37:55 PM »
Sarah Palin cured me of wanting regular folks representing in any capacity in washington .   

Offline mecch

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2010, 03:45:51 PM »
Mecch,

should we have equal representation by IQ on the court as well?

Huh?
Sure supreme court justices should all be brilliant, among other intellectual and human qualities. I'm an ivy product too, and just read some interesting editorials about how it would be nice to get away from this ivy lock on power in Washington, that's all I'm saying. 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2010, 03:58:55 PM »
Huh?
Sure supreme court justices should all be brilliant, among other intellectual and human qualities. I'm an ivy product too, and just read some interesting editorials about how it would be nice to get away from this ivy lock on power in Washington, that's all I'm saying. 

Brilliant people tend to go to ivy league schools, I don't really have a problem with people who went to ivy league schools holding positions of power.  To deny someone an opportunity in their career because of the school they went to seems completely offbase.

Offline Boze

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2010, 04:10:58 PM »
ivy league today just means smart. saying 'oh, ivy league again' to me sounds just like 'oh, another smart one'.
nobody is BORN into the ivy league, it's not the wasp establishment of yore.
 
==========
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Offline mecch

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2010, 04:24:19 PM »
Obviously not the ivy league of yore.  If kagan gets in, there will be no protestants!
But ALL Yale and Harvard.

Its just something to think about. Do we want only Harvard and Yale educations on our supreme court?

Is the Supreme Court Too Packed With Ivy Leaguers?
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1988877,00.html


http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-judiciary/93965-the-supreme-court-out-of-its-ivy-league

http://trueslant.com/jamellebouie/2010/05/10/with-kagan-another-round-of-ivy-league-nepotism/
The overrepresentation of Ivy League graduates on the Supreme Court (and on appellate courts) has little to do with ability and everything to do with personal and institutional relationships.  Great legal minds aren’t exclusive to Harvard and Yale, and I think we’re doing ourselves a real disservice by restricting our “nomination pool” to the usual group of elite East Coast law schools.  Even if the Court is otherwise diverse, justices from extremely similar educational backgrounds will carry similar habits of mind and similar ways of seeing the world.  A justice from outside the Ivy League might see the legal landscape in ways significantly different from her peers, might find different cases compelling, and might take a different approach to legal reasoning.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2010, 04:35:52 PM »
I think you're placing too much importance on where these people went to school.   I see your argument I just don't agree with it.

Offline mecch

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2010, 04:41:32 PM »
If I were in her shoes I would be pissed to be passed over cause I went to Harvard.

If I were president I might look around for some brilliant person who represents a different part of the amercian experience than ivy league wonderkinds.

You might think the Supreme court was always thus, all ivy, but in fact this is a contemporary development. 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2010, 04:46:22 PM »
If I were in her shoes I would be pissed to be passed over cause I went to Harvard.

If I were president I might look around for some brilliant person who represents a different part of the amercian experience than ivy league wonderkinds.

You might think the Supreme court was always thus, all ivy, but in fact this is a contemporary development. 

So which Ivy League institution knocked you back?

MtD

Offline mecch

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2010, 04:51:30 PM »
So which Ivy League institution knocked you back?

MtD

knocked me back? please reword the question I dont understand.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2010, 04:53:48 PM »
Kagan, Sotomayor and Scalia all grew up in New York City too!  Damn them!
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2010, 04:57:33 PM »
knocked me back? please reword the question I dont understand.

It's early in the morning here. I have a tendency to lapse into the vernacular when the daystar has not yet ascended beyond the yard arm.

What I'm wondering is why you're so concerned about where this woman got her education. I'm guessing that you're trying to make a point about diversity of representation or something.

Surely which university Kagan attended should be one of the lesser considerations when considering her candidacy for the high court.

MtD


Offline mecch

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2010, 04:58:20 PM »
I'd rather a meritocracy than an old boy network. But more subtle editorialists are noting that the Harvard/Yale meritocracy is functioning in government a bit like the old boy network used to.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2010, 05:00:24 PM »
Surely which university Kagan attended should be one of the lesser considerations when considering her candidacy for the high court.

I'm not making a big deal. Just a little woe that again its the ivy meritocracy.  Read the editorials. I was more sharing those points of the editorialists with you - yeah we need broader representation in that important and small branch of power.

From the Time editorial:

Harvardites and Yalies, pointing to grads like Sotomayor, argue that their schools have long been meritocracies. True enough. Still, powerful alumni like Obama tend to brandish them the way English lords flaunt the Oxford-Cambridge Old Boy network. "It's a perfectly incestuous academic cartel," says Jonathan Turley, a legal scholar and professor at the George Washington University School of Law (another top 25 school) who teaches a course on the Supreme Court. Turley notes that after Kagan's White House presentation, most of the breathless buzz from cable TV pundits was "how plugged in she is to that exclusive Harvard-Yale club, that she knows the other justices because of their law school associations. It's a self-replicating system."

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1988877,00.html#ixzz0oDshC7MS
« Last Edit: May 17, 2010, 05:02:48 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2010, 05:03:59 PM »
I'd rather a meritocracy than an old boy network. But more subtle editorialists are noting that the Harvard/Yale meritocracy is functioning in government a bit like the old boy network used to.

I find it interesting that the nomination of a female jew by a black President could constitute the operations of an old boy network.

Surely Kagan's nomination should be assayed on the basis of her professional achievements rather than where she got her JD?

I mean the woman is the current Solicitor-General of the United States. Presumably she has other similar meritorious milestones on her CV?

MtD

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2010, 05:05:16 PM »
I'm not making a big deal. Just a little woe that again its the ivy meritocracy.  Read the editorials. I was more sharing those points of the editorialists with you - yeah we need broader representation in that important and small branch of power.

Uh, it's an equal branch in our government.

Offline mecch

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2010, 05:07:50 PM »
Uh, it's an equal branch in our government.
Precisely. Equal branch, and very small representation. Thus - all Harvard and Yale? Thats the point of the editorial objections. Thats all.

MTD - yep, but that is exactly what some minds see it is.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2010, 05:09:06 PM »
Precisely. Equal branch, and very small representation. Thus - all Harvard and Yale? Thats the point of the editorial objections. Thats all.

MTD - yep, but that is exactly what some minds see it is.

Presumably some minds would prefer a candidate from Oral Roberts U?

MtD

Offline mecch

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2010, 05:16:00 PM »
Don't be fake simple, or cynical.  Why go the lowest common denominator route? Nobody with any sense wants "a Sarah Palin".  Of course bible bangers want a "christian" read protestant or evangelical.

You know, sometimes I bring these views from the mainstream press into this forum and you all shoot it down like its incomprehensible or too complicated/elitist, etc etc.  Things aint always super simple you know.

I count my blessings its not another Republican president stacking the court with Clarence Thomas's, and will now politely SHUT MY TRAP.  Ta

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2010, 05:21:26 PM »
Precisely. Equal branch, and very small representation. Thus - all Harvard and Yale? Thats the point of the editorial objections. Thats all.

MTD - yep, but that is exactly what some minds see it is.

One could argue thusly that as a woman she is representative of 51% of the population. Thus highly representative. One could argue that she has a very slim judicial history no matter what her alma mater and be on a bit more solid ground. No matter what the editorial.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2010, 05:29:02 PM »
Don't be fake simple, or cynical.  Why go the lowest common denominator route? Nobody with any sense wants "a Sarah Palin".  Of course bible bangers want a "christian" read protestant or evangelical.

You know, sometimes I bring these views from the mainstream press into this forum and you all shoot it down like its incomprehensible or too complicated/elitist, etc etc.  Things aint always super simple you know.

I count my blessings its not another Republican president stacking the court with Clarence Thomas's, and will now politely SHUT MY TRAP.  Ta



Well whatever.

Perhaps you wouldn't end up with a butt full of buckshot if you didn't peddle such asinine arguments so often  ::)

There is nothing particularly complex about what you've argued here today nor anything intellectually simple about my responses.

The "Ivy League Conspiracy" line seems to eschew any number of pertinent aspects of Kagan's nomination, namely those offered by Aunty D:

One could argue thusly that as a woman she is representative of 51% of the population. Thus highly representative. One could argue that she has a very slim judicial history no matter what her alma mater and be on a bit more solid ground. No matter what the editorial.

Or her political/ideological stripe. Perhaps her nomination has more to do with her being confirmable (such an ugly word!) rather than having the most acceptable sheepskin pinned to her oak pannelled wall?

MtD

Offline mecch

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2010, 05:30:04 PM »
One could argue thusly that as a woman she is representative of 51% of the population. Thus highly representative. One could argue that she has a very slim judicial history no matter what her alma mater and be on a bit more solid ground. No matter what the editorial.

Socco voci
Yeah I agree with the latter all the more argument that the ivy league "meritocracy" may be overvalued and overused.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Boze

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2010, 05:54:11 PM »
I'm surprised that her being (very likely) gay has escaped you lot.

MtD - 'female jew' is a Jewess. Classy word

Mecch - I see your point. I think the problem here is not what school she attended but the tendency to appoint scholars rather than judges to the SC. 
==========
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Apr10 - cd4 600
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Jun10 - started Atripla ; VL 113
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2010, 06:12:18 PM »
I'm surprised that her being (very likely) gay has escaped you lot.

I guess if you think every unmarried woman over a certain age is a lesbian.  I'll assume that, naturally, if you believe this you hold the same standard view towards single men.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2010, 06:14:28 PM »
I'm surprised that her being (very likely) gay has escaped you lot.

MtD - 'female jew' is a Jewess. Classy word

Mecch - I see your point. I think the problem here is not what school she attended but the tendency to appoint scholars rather than judges to the SC. 

Nothing escapes us. Something you might do well to remember. :)

'Jewess' is archaic and mysogynistic. But I suspect you know that already.

MtD

Offline Boze

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #32 on: May 17, 2010, 06:22:30 PM »
MissPhi - is she thin and neat in addition to being unmarried? (seinfeld reference :) I actually didn't follow the issue closely, just read that on slate.com. I usually find that when there is smoke (about a famous person), there is fire. I just thought it be ironic that on this forum her Ivy League pedigree is discussed first :)

MtD - you're absolutely right, as a "dentist" I allow myself the occasional anti-dentite joke.
==========
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Apr10 - cd4 600
May10 - VL 4,500
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Aug 10 - UD, CD4 810, 52%
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Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2010, 06:25:38 PM »
I just thought it be ironic that on this forum her Ivy League pedigree is discussed first :)

Then you don't know the meaning of the word "irony".

MtD


Offline Dachshund

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2010, 06:26:19 PM »
I'm surprised that her being (very likely) gay has escaped you lot.

MtD - 'female jew' is a Jewess. Classy word

Mecch - I see your point. I think the problem here is not what school she attended but the tendency to appoint scholars rather than judges to the SC. 

Jesus Christ, get your facts straight before you post. The vast majority of the SCOTUS had judicial experience before they were nominated. Of course why you think being a scholar should disqualify someone is beyond me? We ain't making an appointment to night manager at Taco Bell.

Offline Boze

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2010, 07:02:08 PM »
Dash - easy, I meant to add "by Obama" at the end of the sentence. Clearly I am talking about the new tendency.
==========
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Offline Boze

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2010, 07:03:43 PM »
MtD - if I belonged to a particular minority, I'd be very proud if one of its members was nominated to the SC. But we've had our share already, so this one is not as special to me :)
==========
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Offline Dachshund

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2010, 07:06:04 PM »
I actually didn't follow the issue closely

nuff said

Offline Boze

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2010, 07:22:38 PM »
very touchy
==========
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Offline Ann

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2010, 07:55:49 PM »
"Ivy League Conspiracy"? You wanna try Oxbridge. :D
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Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Elena Kagan..New Supreme Court Nominee
« Reply #40 on: May 17, 2010, 07:58:29 PM »
"Ivy League Conspiracy"? You wanna try Oxbridge. :D

Cambridge man through and through. Traitors AND sodomites. :)

MtD

 


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