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Author Topic: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart  (Read 6172 times)

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Offline Assurbanipal

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NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« on: May 10, 2010, 10:23:46 AM »
KAMPALA, Uganda — On the grounds of Uganda’s biggest AIDS clinic, Dinavance Kamukama sits under a tree and weeps.

Her disease is probably quite advanced: her kidneys are failing and she is so weak she can barely walk. Leaving her young daughter with family, she rode a bus four hours to the hospital where her cousin Allen Bamurekye, born infected, both works and gets the drugs that keep her alive.

But there are no drugs for Ms. Kamukama. As is happening in other clinics in Kampala, all new patients go on a waiting list. A slot opens when a patient dies.

“So many people are being supported by America,” Ms. Kamukama, 28, says mournfully. “Can they not help me as well?”

The answer increasingly is no. Uganda is the first and most obvious example of how the war on global AIDS is falling apart.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/10/world/africa/10aids.html
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline komnaes

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2010, 10:38:45 AM »
This is really heart breaking news.

Again, in an ideal world, on one should be suffering from HIV needlessly while there are meds that can keep us, them healthy. And the sad fact is, the whole of humanity spends USD$1.46 trillion on military. Just 1% of it can fill the additional shortfall that is needed to put everyone in Africa on meds.

I don't know what is say..
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline leatherman

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2010, 11:22:11 AM »
“So many people are being supported by America,” Ms. Kamukama, 28, says mournfully. “Can they not help me as well?”
unfortunately when we have ADAP waiting lists in America (that have caused Americans to die will waiting on medications in previous year), and rising numbers of infected within our own states, the war against AIDS in America is falling apart, so there's just no way we can continue fighting this illness throughout the world successfully when we can't even stay the fight at home.

4 Americans on SC ADAP waiting list died in Dec 2006; 3 Americans on W Virginia ADAP waiting list died in 2003; 5 Americans on Kentucky ADAP waiting list died in 2003. Currently there are 1001 on ADAP waiting lists in America right now (over 33 people in SC and over 191 in Kentucky)
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=31714 "SC ADAP Funding Cut Protest Rally"
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=31665 "South Carolina House votes to cut all HIV/AIDS funding"

“It makes me angry,” she says. “It feels horrible. Sometimes you wonder if you’re doing people favors. You start them on drugs, you give them hope, and then you’re not sure you can keep it up. We all knew these drugs are for life.”
I live in America and hoard pills because of that same fear of losing access to meds.
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=32528 "HELP. ADAP has closed in my state, and I have five days worth of meds left!"
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2010, 11:26:56 AM »
This is disgusting to me.  Why can't we afford ADAP?  Ah because we can figure out ways to fund any number of other projects.  You can couple this with the fact that the drug companies could just *Gasp* reduce their prices so that those of us who are working could actually afford to pay for them.  I could swing 100-200 bucks a month pretty easily...I can't handle 1800 a month by myself.

Greed is a huge part of it.

Offline WillyWump

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2010, 11:58:27 AM »
This is disgusting to me.  Why can't we afford ADAP?  Ah because we can figure out ways to fund any number of other projects. 

DONT get me started again...

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=32545.msg399914#msg399914

POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
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Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2010, 01:26:13 PM »
This is disgusting to me.  Why can't we afford ADAP? 

We can afford it, but it's just those damn Red State backwater legislatures that think prayer will pay for everything.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2010, 01:30:35 PM »
We can afford it, but it's just those damn Red State backwater legislatures that think prayer will pay for everything.

Honestly, and I know this is selfishly motivated, but I would rather all road work stop to pay for universal healthcare, if that's the cost at the moment so be it.  I'm not really sure what part of "life and death" these assholes don't get.

Offline leatherman

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2010, 01:35:25 PM »
We can afford it, but it's just those damn Red State backwater legislatures that think prayer will pay for everything.
Praise God and Hallelujah!

Oops! sorry there. :D
I've been back in the Bible-belt six months and have been trying to fight off that infection; but it's so prevelant you can almost see it in the air this time of year (though that could be the pollen). :D
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Moffie65

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2010, 01:44:35 PM »
And here I thought this might be a story from the hinterlands of the good old U. S. of America!

Yes, I do care for our brothers and sisters in Uganda, who were way ahead of most countries in battling and claiming victory over the spread of this disease, .............  Then the religious republicans of "C Street" house got ahold of their president and convinced him and his cabinet that these people don't deserve support and meds, and also the parliment passed the law making "gay" a crime punishable by death, and oh doggie, Jesus was blamed along the way somewhere.

I am simply aghast at this news, but oh well, I guess the queens of the world have destroyed the "sanctity" of marriage somehow, and  C Street has made sure to spread that word all over the globe.  Somehow, they missed the part where HIV is dumber than stupid and doesn't know the difference between a queen and a nice married woman in Kampala.

Unfortunately also, the HIV war is now on the back burner for both congress, and the White house here in the U.S.  Oh well, I hope everyone that is HIV+ has known of this mess in the United States for a while has loads of money, because these meds cost a fortune, and I can't afford them, but I'm 63 and have had a really good life, so if I die now, so be it.  :)
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline mecch

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2010, 01:54:45 PM »
Minor point, but important to note that the lack of AIDS treatment in Africa is not likely to be a question of prejudice against gays.   

I write Obama once a month about 1) universal health care and 2) treatment for hiv that makes us healthy productive members of society.  Have never received the smallest reply.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline leatherman

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2010, 02:51:18 PM »
is not likely to be a question of prejudice against gays. 
Of course it is, just like Philly's comment insinuates. Thought and concerns in America about HIV have always been entangled with homophobia

Do you really think my federal representatives of SC (Jim Demint or Lindsey Graham) vote for any monies for HIV knowing it's "that gay diesease"? Or John Boehner from my old state of OH? No those kinds of people vote, whether it's for a policy in America or abroad, for simple abstinence (cause only "bad people" get "nasty" sexually transmitted diseases) and hope to pray the gay away.

From the very beginnings of this epidemic, in America, our government has wanted to ignore the problem because it's just fags and junkies dying. Now years later, even though the stats have changed somewhat, HIV is still a disease (in America) afflicting gays and drug-users and most people still don't care; so our reps in government for the most part sure don't want to pony up money to help this situation here or abroad.

And so people continue to die in Uganda from lack of meds, and the same thing could possibly happen again here in the States :'(

And here I thought this might be a story from the hinterlands of the good old U. S. of America!

Yes, I do care for our brothers and sisters in Uganda, who were way ahead of most countries in battling and claiming victory over the spread of this disease, .............  Then the religious republicans of "C Street" house got ahold of their president and convinced him and his cabinet that these people don't deserve support and meds, and also the parliment passed the law making "gay" a crime punishable by death
Rachel Maddow's reporting about C Street House and Uganda was all very enlightening, along with Jeff Sharlet's book about "The Family". Why even my SC governor Mark Sanford (remember the one that was away "hiking in Argentina" - which is str8 code for boffing your out-of-state out-of-country mistress) has ties to C-Street. Is it any wonder after how C-Street affliates influenced Uganda, that here in SC, ADAP monies were nearly totally cut out of the budget this year? I guess I should be thankful they didn't try to make "teh gay" a death-penalty crime here too, in the Bible-Belt hinterlands of America ;)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline mecch

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2010, 02:58:17 PM »
I watch Rachel Maddow.
I don't think foreign aid funding to Africa, dedicated to AIDS, is given, or cut off due to gay prejudice.
You might rather argue, speaking in "their voice" (christian right in government) that "since its just junkies and fags in the USA, we dont have to make ADAP a priority." Similarly "its just a bunch of africans who are gonna die of one thing or another, subhuman, really, so we don't have to shell out".  
However, I think the African AIDS grants were a matter of policy, Bush in fact, and I dont know the particulars of them, nor how long the commitment was made for.
There are NGO fighting for worldwide access to HAART. I'm not sure the homophobia issue has much bearing in these contexts.

Modified:  OK I moved my butt:  

I ask the Congress to commit $15 billion over the next five years, to turn the tide against AIDS in the most afflicted nations of Africa and the Caribbean" President George W. Bush
http://www.avert.org/pepfar.htm
President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief

And yes the meddling of senators in Ugandan politics reeks of the former disasters in South Africa.

I have good friend doing this kind of policy in an NGO in Geneva. I'll ask him about the gay prejudice factor in such funding and get back to you all.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2010, 03:25:27 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline WillyWump

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2010, 11:38:22 PM »
All of us in America, me, you, everyone who is on meds are only a depression or severe recession away from losing access to meds via ADAP.

Dont think this applies to you because you have employer sponsored healthcare? Think Again. Even if you currently dont use ADAP you're at risk. If you have Health insurance through your company your good for now... but what happens if you lose your job? What happens if the economy gets worse and your company starts layoffs? If you live in one of the states with a waiting list you're in deep trouble! If you dont live in a "waiting list" state and the economy worsens you can bet your bippy your state may start enacting Cost Containment Strategies which may leave you out in the cold.

If your currently on ADAP and the economy worsens, same situation, Cost containment strategies will surely hit every state (16 either now have them or are considering them). You are not safe just because you are already in the ADAP system, Cost containment strategies will skew eligibilty and you may be kicked out of the system (think of "Retroman" on here.)

God forbid if we have a major depression.

The only way you can feel certain your safe is if your on Medicare, but even that im not real sure about.

Obamacare is supposed to help erase waiting lists, how exactly Im not sure, but Obamacare will not unfold immediately, thus leaving many wating for meds now.

Here's an open letter video to Obama put up by the ADAP Advocacy Assoc.

http://www.youtube.com/user/ADAPAdvocacy?feature=mhw5#p/a/u/0/aL2embchB-k

Copy of the letter:

http://www.adapadvocacyassociation.org/pdf/2010_aaa_Press_Obama-YouTube_04-08-10.pdf

POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2010, 11:51:52 PM »
Obamacare will put people currently on ADAP onto Medicare and Medicaid, freeing up that funding for others.

Offline WillyWump

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2010, 12:04:23 AM »
Obamacare will put people currently on ADAP onto Medicare and Medicaid, freeing up that funding for others.

When will this happen?

POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline leatherman

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2010, 12:10:47 AM »
Obamacare will put people currently on ADAP onto Medicare and Medicaid, freeing up that funding for others.
do u have a link to this information? ???

edited to add:
It seems ADAP programs will continue for at least 4 more years.
In 2009, Congress passed the Ryan White HIV/AIDS Treatment Extension Act, which was signed by President Obama on October 30, 2009. This bill extends the Ryan White Care Act for an additional four years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_White_Care_Act#2009_reauthorization
« Last Edit: May 11, 2010, 12:47:00 AM by leatherman »
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline tednlou2

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2010, 01:51:31 AM »
I read this story on the poz.com home page.  There was a republican congressman who was talking about HIV/AIDS recently.  He said something like, "I didn't force people to use dirty needles or have sex with multiple partners."  I have tried to find it, but can't.  I think this says so much about how many politicians feel. 

I'm sure I saw it on The Daily Show or Colbert Report.  I don't think the "real" news covered it.

Offline leatherman

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2010, 02:50:11 AM »
http://www.poz.com/articles/hiv_health_reform_response_401_18240.shtml
It also adds 16 million people to Medicaid—the federal health program for low-income people and those with certain disabilities—by raising the eligibility threshold to 133 percent of the poverty level. ...

Many advocates, such as Kathie Hiers, CEO of AIDS Alabama and member of the Presidential Advisory Council on HIV/AIDS, hope the bill takes some pressure off individual states’ AIDS drug assistance programs (ADAP). ....

“A lot of people living with HIV are now going to qualify for Medicaid, so we’re very excited about that,” Hiers says. But she advises people living with HIV that the Medicaid expansion— including the aforementioned preexisting conditions provision and the ability to buy coverage through state-run marketplaces called “exchanges”—does not go into effect until 2014.

“We’ve got a ways to go before all of this gets implemented,” Hiers explains. “I would encourage [HIV-positive] folks to be careful to protect the benefits they have now and not do anything to lose their placement on an ADAP or anything like that, until these changes actually do go into effect and we see how states are going to be able to afford them.”

... In addition, the bill prevents Medicare recipients who receive their HIV treatment through an ADAP from being subject to additional prescription drug costs.

This article definitely makes it sound like more poor people will be moved onto Medicare, which will remove them from the rolls of ADAP. Pozzies above the poverty level will be able to buy into high-risk insurance exchanges which will also remove more from ADAP. But is does sound like some will still be needing the assistance of ADAP to receive meds.

I read this story on the poz.com home page.  There was a republican congressman who was talking about HIV/AIDS recently.  He said something like, "I didn't force people to use dirty needles or have sex with multiple partners."  I have tried to find it, but can't.  I think this says so much about how many politicians feel.
I read that somewhere today too, Ted. Was it related to an article discussing Utah trying to eliminate all ADAP funding as "Obamacare" should take care of the issue? The article definitely underlined the issue of how some of our government views how and why it thinks we should not be funding HIV medications. And to be honest, Mecch, if the politicians don't really want to fund life-sustaining meds for our own citizens, I'm hard pressed to believe that they care at all about people abroad getting meds. Thankfully more rational minds win these arguements for the policies of ADAP and hiv meds for Africa but underneath the surface are plenty of people who don't believe in these policies. America is just votes away from defunding these services to Africa and to it's own people.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline LordBerners

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Anhedonia
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2010, 05:00:04 AM »
...There was a republican congressman who was talking about HIV/AIDS recently.  He said something like, "I didn't force people to use dirty needles or have sex with multiple partners."  I have tried to find it, but can't.  I think this says so much about how many politicians feel. 

Not only politicians, but the great majority of Americans.

Keep in mind that it isn't only homophobia - hatred of sex and of pleasure in general (and of those who seek same) is the bedrock of American culture. 
Please, just call me Berners.. or Baron.

Offline veritas

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2010, 09:40:23 AM »


What ever happened to this:

http://www.avert.org/universal-access.htm

I see  problems ahead. We're not even close.

v

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2010, 09:54:56 AM »
Slightly off topic, slightly on topic -- it seems GMHC might be falling apart.

AN IMPORTANT CRY FROM THE HEART FOR HELP FROM LARRY KRAMER
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline WillyWump

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2010, 12:02:11 PM »

 “I would encourage [HIV-positive] folks to be careful to protect the benefits they have now and not do anything to lose their placement on an ADAP or anything like that, until these changes actually do go into effect and we see how states are going to be able to afford them.”

Well that's a beautiful understatement!

POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline mecch

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2010, 01:01:26 PM »
Could we go back to the OP topic and discuss the percariousness of rich countries funding for HAART for Africa.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline WillyWump

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2010, 01:18:22 PM »
Could we go back to the OP topic and discuss the percariousness of rich countries funding for HAART for Africa.

Absolutely.

But included in the OP's topic was ...“So many people are being supported by America,” Ms. Kamukama, 28, says mournfully. “Can they not help me as well?”

The answer, as discussed above,  seems to be how can America help everyone in Africa if America can not help 100% of it's own citizens?

-Will
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline WillyWump

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2010, 01:35:10 PM »
But I think to address the African problem PepFar needs more help from the donor countries. A quick perusal of the Donor Nations Funding graph shows the Us provides 51% (6.8billion) of funding while holding only 1/3 of the worlds wealth. If this is the case, the other Donor countries need to step up and commit more to the cause (easier said than done in this crippling world economy I know).

Perhaps my numbers and conclusions are wrong but here is the info for review by others:

http://www.kff.org/hivaids/upload/7347-052.pdf

-Will
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 01:38:25 PM by WillyWump »
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Last Labs-
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6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
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Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
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Offline leatherman

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2010, 01:40:14 PM »
Could we go back to the OP topic and discuss the percariousness of rich countries funding for HAART for Africa.
well the article the OP linked us too didn't talk so many about "rich countries", as it talked about America supplying 88% of Uganda's HIV aide. Although it did mention that the UN supplies about $10 billion a year towards a $27 billion cost a year against HIV world wide. The article also stated the British govt and Gates foundation would shift focus from HIV and begin to focus support on mother-child health, similar to Obama's proposal, though he increased the American global HIV support by 2%.

perhaps we aren't so far off topic by discussing the percariousness of America funding HAART for it's own HIV citizens while it is somehow able to increase it's support to Ugandia. At the same time America is spending billions in fighting it's wars, while the Ugandian govt buys military aircraft. It sounds like the "AIDS war is falling apart" in Uganda AND in America.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Anhedonia
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2010, 01:57:30 PM »
Not only politicians, but the great majority of Americans.

Keep in mind that it isn't only homophobia - hatred of sex and of pleasure in general (and of those who seek same) is the bedrock of American culture. 

While the sexually liberated European travels to Thailand exploiting under age boys and girls in Thailand's booming sex trade.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2010, 04:47:27 PM »
While the sexually liberated European travels to Thailand exploiting under age boys and girls in Thailand's booming sex trade.

 :) :D ;D :o
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Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2010, 05:03:43 PM »


I have a head vs heart struggle with the issues this article brings up.

  My head says that, if we can cure other deadly African diseases for 10 times as many people as now with the same money ...that it makes sense to direct new money to these other diseases.  But my heart says that I could be one of those dying of AIDS in Africa were it not for the luck of being born an American.

My head says that when I compare the annual cost of covering everyone in the developing world it is less than a week of the cost of the war on terror.  And my heart says "What could be a more powerful statement against anti-American jihad and anti-American terror than the US saving the lives of people with AIDS?"  My head says that even if other diseases can be cured more cheaply isn't there value in the US owning an end to AIDS deaths in the developing world (to the extent modern medicine can make that happen).

My heart says that it is shameful that we have ADAP waiting lists in America.  But my head says they are not comparable to Africa-- 10 people dying over a decade compared to hundreds of thousands / millions of deaths each year.  My heart says we trivialize millions of deaths by comparing them to a handful.

And I struggle with PEPFAR as the part of the Bush legacy..  George W showed his disdain for government by the people he appointed -- of the 20-30 political appointees I personally met only one (1!) was up to the standards of the prior 3 Administrations.  I blamed his incompetence when I saw the smoke rising over the Pentagon, when my coworkers died in the World Trade Center, when every town in northern NJ had cars that sat empty at the train stations and orphans in the schools. I blamed him for "Mission (un)Accomplished" on a war of choice rather than necessity; I blamed him as people died in New Orleans while he praised that incompetent he had disdainfully appointed. A US budget in ruins, an economy on life support....where to stop?

But then there was PEPFAR...

5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2010, 06:21:59 PM »
Charity begins at home.  The US provides a lot of foreign relief of all types, why not tax countries that don't similarly provide relief, wealthy nations (the middle east comes to mind) in order to essentially force them to help.

Anyway as for Medicare and Medicaid being expanded and relieving some of the ADAP waiting lists it's just logic.  If say right now I'm on ADAP and in 4 years I can qualify for Medicaid (? I always forget which is which) then I would go under the budget of Medicaid freeing up the funds I was using on ADAP.  Since a lot (and I mean a lot) of pozzies are living at an income level that would qualify them for this it would only make sense that ADAP will be able to do more with less.  The problem is time, how long have these waiting lists and budget cuts been going on versus how long will it take for the governmental healthcare restructuring to cover new people?

Time will tell.  I feel for the plight of the people in Africa suffering from AIDS, but how many of our fellow citizens would you be willing to let go without meds in order to fund an equal number in another nation?  It's a quandry and not a pretty one.

Offline leatherman

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2010, 07:28:31 PM »
Medicaid (? I always forget which is which)
MediCARE is health insurance, thru Social Security, for people age 65 or older, under age 65 with certain disabilities

MediCAID is the state health aid for the low-income and needy (though it also uses federal funds)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline WillyWump

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2010, 10:22:12 PM »
Ok, I'm going to say it (and I'll duck as the tomatos are hurled my way)....

The US has no business sending any more money, above the amount currently allocated to PepFar UNTIL They address the problems of ADAP Waiting lists. 30 Million a year, roughly, would clear the waiting lists. 6.5 billion from the US is enough for Pepfar, Other countries need to come on board and help with the burden, where is the money from Lybia, Egypt, How come not one cent of Saudi Oil money is going towards PepFar? Afterall This crisis is happening on their continent.

Yes, Im aware I sound Isolationist/Protectionist. But Dammit Clear the Waiting lists before we fund PepFar further!

-Will
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
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Offline LordBerners

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Re: Anhedonia
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2010, 01:27:33 PM »
While the sexually liberated European travels to Thailand exploiting under age boys and girls in Thailand's booming sex trade.

Afraid that's just a bit of fantasy, Daschshund.  20-45 is the age range you'll actually encounter if you visit, though I can't speak to the masculine side of the biz.
Please, just call me Berners.. or Baron.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Anhedonia
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2010, 02:04:49 PM »
Afraid that's just a bit of fantasy, Daschshund.  20-45 is the age range you'll actually encounter if you visit, though I can't speak to the masculine side of the biz.

Well for one Thailand is currently called “Disneyland for pedophiles” and has up to 600,000 AIDS cases and a huge sex-for-sale industry, driven mostly by European and American tourists who come to rent what they want. It is estimated that the number of prostitutes in Thailand ranges from 800,000 to 2 million. Among which 20% of Thailand Prostitutes are 18 or younger.

I won't hijack this thread any further, but would be more than happy to provide you multiple links confirming the facts about the sex trade in Thailand. The facts and not the bit of "fantasy" or generalisations you prefer.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Anhedonia
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2010, 05:19:48 PM »
Well for one Thailand is currently called “Disneyland for pedophiles” and has up to 600,000 AIDS cases and a huge sex-for-sale industry, driven mostly by European and American tourists who come to rent what they want. It is estimated that the number of prostitutes in Thailand ranges from 800,000 to 2 million. Among which 20% of Thailand Prostitutes are 18 or younger.

I won't hijack this thread any further, but would be more than happy to provide you multiple links confirming the facts about the sex trade in Thailand. The facts and not the bit of "fantasy" or generalisations you prefer.

Very true...

Apologies for the following hijack..

Hey Lord, I know your disdain for the US is due to how the country doesn't allow you to seek out sexual pleasures here (whatever), but I wanted to ask: You always say you cannot make a living here, why not?  Teachers get pretty good benefit packages (health insurance) from what I hear, and make more than the $1,000 a month you make in Thailand.

If you want, you can even have one of those water sprayers installed next to your toilet here.  I know your a big fan of that, saves money on the toilet paper I guess...

AND your complaint regarding the US is a bogus one in reference to yourself.  If you are trying to be the good American and care for your brothers and sisters still stuck here then that is quite admirable, but I doubt that's what it is.

From your posting history I gather you teach over there, and I also saw that you pay roughly around $200 or something per month for meds, am I right?  As a working teacher in the US, your monthly copay for meds could be as low as $30 a month.

So, I guess this leads me to my next question:  What's up with all this hate towards the US?  I saw your bathroom pic man, it ain't like your living the life of the rich and famous over there.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline mecch

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2010, 09:37:41 AM »
At the same time America is spending billions in fighting it's wars, while the Ugandian govt buys military aircraft. It sounds like the "AIDS war is falling apart" in Uganda AND in America.
Yeah I agree.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2010, 09:43:37 AM »
The US has no business sending any more money, above the amount currently allocated to PepFar UNTIL They address the problems of ADAP Waiting lists. 30 Million a year, roughly, would clear the waiting lists. 6.5 billion from the US is enough for Pepfar, Other countries need to come on board and help with the burden, where is the money from Lybia, Egypt, How come not one cent of Saudi Oil money is going towards PepFar? Afterall This crisis is happening on their continent.

Yes its a question of taking care of one´s own. This is why many first world citizens have a very difficult time to grasp the precariousness of those confronting sickness, unemployment, or even just good eduction, in the USA.  They can´t imagine a country can be rich, generous, globally powerful, and yet willing to crap on its own population.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2010, 09:47:53 AM »
Wouldn´t the world be a better place if "we" were the rulers.  Equality, security, peace, respect.  Endlessly fascinating how the world ruled by my university buddies, and simlar classes/people around the world, is so fucked up.  It could be worse.  It could be much better.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline WillyWump

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2010, 10:15:47 AM »
Wouldn´t the world be a better place if "we" were the rulers.  Equality, security, peace, respect.  Endlessly fascinating how the world ruled by my university buddies, and simlar classes/people around the world, is so fucked up.  It could be worse.  It could be much better.

I agree. However I ahve a theory that most politicians started with mindsets such as ours... wanting to help, able to see the big picture and can make rational decisions based on the greater good. However as their political career advanced they became tainted by power and money and political pressure eventually to the point of becoming entirely out of touch with the "common people". It's a sad situation, perhaps it's just the nature of politics.

-Will
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline mecch

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2010, 12:06:05 PM »
Yes maybe that is the human condition. I am not so sure. Listen to the Dalai Lama and you feel like the people can expect more and deserve more from government.
I contributed to this thread because I felt that homophobia is not a reason there isn´t enough funding for global threatment about AIDS.  I believe it is lack of respect across cultures, and also specifically lack of respect for the poor and powerless.  Also religious puranitanism, of course. 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Jeff G

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2010, 12:20:56 PM »
I think one reason things never get done even for the right reason is because people are so polarized and stuck in there own version of the perfect solution .

People are so caught up proclaiming this and that wont work they lose track of the fact that there is no perfect solution to every problem and you must start some where even if its not one size fits all .

Offline blackwingbear

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2010, 12:24:50 PM »
Yes maybe that is the human condition.... I contributed to this thread because I felt that homophobia is not a reason there isn´t enough funding for global threatment about AIDS.  I believe it is lack of respect across cultures, and also specifically lack of respect for the poor and powerless.  Also religious puranitanism, of course. 

Power does strange things to people - In some psychological studies (sadly, I do not have particular case-studies to back this up), when a subgroup that has been the victim of discrimination takes a position of power they wield that power to oppress those that they believe were their oppressors.. Like a form of "revenge".
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline mecch

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2010, 05:47:06 PM »
The average african with AIDS was never in aposition of power and I can´t see how he/she would be the object of revenge? Revenge against what.
I think its a systemic fear on the part of the rich, a knowledge or fear that there is not enough resources to go around, finally, so someone has to sufffer, and  better "them" then "us".
Nobody wants to confront global redistribution of wealth.  The pot is supposed to fil up for the developing country with no sacrifice on the part of the rich.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Moffie65

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2010, 07:16:18 PM »
The average african with AIDS was never in aposition of power and I can´t see how he/she would be the object of revenge? Revenge against what.

Mecch, I was just wondering when you became so versed in the ways of Africa, or Uganda in particular? You do know of course that Africa is a continent, which is about four times the size of the United States.  To make gross suppositions about Africa and then make a two line sentence that encompases the whole of the condition of AIDS in that continent is of course a statement that is uncommital to the extreme.  You also know of course, that Africans of all racial and ethnic strata read this forum and are seldom participants because they often don't have a full comprehension of english, but they read none the less.

Please think before you sling suppositions not based on fact, and also based on the "superiority" and arrogance you exude here most of the time.  Sheeeeesh!
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
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Offline leatherman

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2010, 07:57:26 PM »
I contributed to this thread because I felt that homophobia is not a reason there isn´t enough funding for global threatment about AIDS.  I believe it is lack of respect across cultures, and also specifically lack of respect for the poor and powerless.  Also religious puranitanism, of course. 
Come live in the Bible belt area for a while :D and experience that religious puranitism ::), and you'll learn that it's resulting homophobia is one of the reasons - along with racism, lack of respect for the poor and powerless, and probably even that "global redistribution of wealth" you mentioned. Homophobia isn't the only reason that some Americans would rather not keep sending money to a foreign country to take care of a disease but it is one of the reasons. America's own history showed that it didn't tackle the AIDS issue for quite a while as it was "only" killing off the gays, blacks, and drug users.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2010, 08:22:32 PM »
The average african with AIDS was never in aposition of power and I can´t see how he/she would be the object of revenge? Revenge against what.
I think its a systemic fear on the part of the rich, a knowledge or fear that there is not enough resources to go around, finally, so someone has to sufffer, and  better "them" then "us".
Nobody wants to confront global redistribution of wealth.  The pot is supposed to fil up for the developing country with no sacrifice on the part of the rich.

I always admired you for your great use of critical thinking, so I know damn good and well you don't believe that "better them than us" mentality, it's simply not the case and you know it.  When you have kids with no books in our public schools, others (even neg folk) not receiving adequate healthcare, and the Gulf becoming a tar pit (not really); it's hard for one to be open-minded on these issues.  As Americans we are expected to be, what choice do we have?

And we never get any of it back, nothing ever in return, unless of course your last name is Bush.  What really blows is half the countries we aid end up hating us, 911 was a slap in the face of epic proportions.  Wonder how that Texas congressman feels about supplying the Afghans those missiles now...  and I don't even want to start about the 54,000+  American lives lost to some so-called Domino Effect theory.

Take all the bullshit our government has fed us, stir in the crap mentioned above, and then add to the mix people going without meds...  I am sure you can understand why this thread has steered off topic concerning ADAP over Africa.

Not one post in this thread supports your claim of "better them than us".  And when it comes to people dying of AIDS, you definitely won't hear it on this forum.

 




I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Moffie65

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2010, 08:56:02 PM »
I always admired you for your great use of critical thinking, so I know damn good and well you don't believe that "better them than us" mentality, it's simply not the case and you know it.  When you have kids with no books in our public schools, others (even neg folk) not receiving adequate healthcare, and the Gulf becoming a tar pit (not really); it's hard for one to be open-minded on these issues.  As Americans we are expected to be, what choice do we have?

And we never get any of it back, nothing ever in return, unless of course your last name is Bush.  What really blows is half the countries we aid end up hating us, 911 was a slap in the face of epic proportions.  Wonder how that Texas congressman feels about supplying the Afghans those missiles now...  and I don't even want to start about the 54,000+  American lives lost to some so-called Domino Effect theory.

Take all the bullshit our government has fed us, stir in the crap mentioned above, and then add to the mix people going without meds...  I am sure you can understand why this thread has steered off topic concerning ADAP over Africa.

Not one post in this thread supports your claim of "better them than us".  And when it comes to people dying of AIDS, you definitely won't hear it on this forum.

Thank you Thomas, your head and heart are showing, and they look pretty good from here :-* :-*.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline mecch

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #47 on: May 15, 2010, 08:12:29 AM »
Mecch, I was just wondering when you became so versed in the ways of Africa, or Uganda in particular? You do know of course that Africa is a continent, which is about four times the size of the United States.  To make gross suppositions about Africa and then make a two line sentence that encompases the whole of the condition of AIDS in that continent is of course a statement that is uncommital to the extreme.  You also know of course, that Africans of all racial and ethnic strata read this forum and are seldom participants because they often don't have a full comprehension of english, but they read none the less.

Please think before you sling suppositions not based on fact, and also based on the "superiority" and arrogance you exude here most of the time.  Sheeeeesh!

You havemisread the train of my thought over several posts in this tread. Others suggested that funding for HAART paid by Western/Countires and the USA in particular may not be as great as possible, or percarious and one of the reasons cited was prejudice by citizens In the rich countries agains gays.  I don,t believe this is true.  I think its for other reasons, as explained.

You HARDLY need to give me a baby lesson about African politics and georgraphy, my dear. unless to prove that you too know the basics, as every educated person knows.  "Sheesh" back to you.

And if you think Im arrogant, so be it, theres nothing I have to say.  I was posting about assumed WESTERN motivations for a failing support for universal HAART access.  I never said a word about the war sponsored by africans on their own continent on their own terms.

Rather I mentioned specifically the challenge in Uganda, from following Rachel Maddow and reading realted articles on that very topic. Another person mentioned the same, before me.

Keep your mud slinging to deserving targets. And read the posts of those you would criticize closely. Have a nice weekend.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2010, 08:29:41 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline leatherman

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #48 on: May 15, 2010, 09:59:39 AM »
one of the reasons cited was prejudice by citizens In the rich countries agains gays.
no, no, no, no. Not "rich countries" at all.
You misread this time. ;)

If 88% of the aide is coming from America and I've repeatedly talked about the religious prejudice in America, I'm talking about America. Not "rich countries", only one country - America. I understand that the rest of the world may not view AIDS as a "gay disease"; but for many Americans that is still the stereotype as over half those infected with HIV have been and still are of the MSM persuasion. This prejudice which I spoke of and you wish to deny is clearly demonstrable by the Maddow information about the religious C street interference influencing Uganda to go so far in their hatred of homosexuals to actually demand a death sentence.

The equation is simple: the American religious right believes homosexuality is a sin. the American religious right believes that HIV is a disease of sinners. The American religious right would rather not fund any programs for sinners. Hence the politicians for the American religion right vote against funding at home and abroad for HIV.

I mean, they don't even like paying for ADAP for their own citizens much less sending money to Africa. (They would rather send missionaries and convert the Africans from their sinful ways.) I can't speak to the actions of other nations, or to the continent of Africa, but I can speak to how the "leaders" (religious right Republican bigots) from the state of SC where I live (Lindsey Graham, Jim Demint, various state legislators) and OH where I used to live (John Boehner) vote against HIV funding in America AND in Africa.

I've got no clue what the countries contributing the other paltry 12% think about HIV and why they aren't contributing more. At 88%, I take exception to the title of this article even, as it doesn't even sound like America is failing at the "AIDS war" in Uganda at all. ;) It sounds like America is "redistributing the wealth" just fine - even against their own prejudices - while the rest of the "rich countries" of the world need to pony up some aide against AIDS.

mikie
(who gets a chuckle every time spell check wants to make John 'Boehner' into John 'Boner' :D )
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


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Offline David_CA

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Re: NYTimes -- At Front Lines, AIDS War Is Falling Apart
« Reply #49 on: May 15, 2010, 04:08:18 PM »
I am certainly not one who thinks we shouldn't help other countries, but a couple of things from the NYT article caught my attention:

United States Embassy officials debated adding $38 million, he said, but cabinet-level Ugandan ministers had been caught stealing from other donors and, though forced to repay the money, were not jailed. The government “hasn’t shown the leadership or commitment to transparency to earn additional funds,” the official added.

Also, he said, Uganda contributes too little. Oil was recently discovered near Lake Albert and the government promised to spend the royalties on roads and electricity, but did not mention AIDS.

“And now the paper says they’re buying Russian jets,” another official added with obvious disgust. Uganda is negotiating for a $300 million squadron of Sukhoi fighter-bombers.



Wouldn't controlling abuse (stealing) internally help provide more funds to be used for HIV / AIDS treatment?  Whether ethically right or wrong, couldn't an 'oil for HAART' program help?  How far would $300 million go for HAART?  If true, it would seem that there IS a means to provide treatment already, and that we (the US and other donors) are not the only solution.

(edited for a typo)
« Last Edit: May 16, 2010, 08:54:53 AM by David_NC »
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
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