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Author Topic: Don't know what's next??  (Read 5273 times)

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Offline mannybolla

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Don't know what's next??
« on: August 26, 2006, 08:10:28 AM »
Hi, I recently had an sexual encounter where I am concerned that I may have been exposed to HIV.  I am a male and in the process of putting on a condem on a someone (who was a casual sexual encounter) I at first put it on the wrong way, I immidiately noticed it and turned it around, kind of rub it with my fingers to wipe away any pre-cum and then we had anal sex ( I was bottom).  Would this incident put me at risk?  I am considering going to an ER to see if I can get PEP, is this an over reaction?
 
Thanks

hm

Offline Ann

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Re: Am I at risk?
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2006, 08:15:33 AM »
Manny,

Yes, going for PEP is an overreaction.

Hiv is a fragile, difficult to transmit virus that does not survive in an infectable state when it is exposed to the environment outside the human body, as any precum would have been in this case. You would not have become infected from this.

It's good to hear you are making sure condoms are being used. You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL STIs together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with a sexually transmitted infection.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Although you do not need testing over this incident, let alone PEP, anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mannybolla

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Re: Am I at risk?
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2006, 12:12:05 PM »
Would this be true also if the time frame from when I used my fingers to wipe off any precum from putting on the condom inside out to the time he put it in was about 30 seconds?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Am I at risk?
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2006, 12:16:51 PM »
Like Ann has said in her post. You didn't have a risk, by flipping the condom over and putting it on correctly.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Am I at risk?
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2006, 12:41:26 PM »
And even assuming the fella you were with is HIV+ (which you don't know) and some precum got on to the condom, HIV is a fragile virus and would not be lurking on the condom waiting for it to be transmitted in this beyond unlikely manner.

Please read the lesson on transmission (link in first thread in this section) so that you are down with the basics about this subject.

Cheers,
Andy Velez

Offline mannybolla

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Re: Am I at risk?
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2006, 12:42:09 PM »
Thank you so much for the reassurance, I posed the same incident to a local HIV advocacy group in my area and this is what they responded with (which caused me more anxiety);

I can understand your concern, and think it’s great that you are setting out to determine what your best course of action is. The situation you describe does sound like there could be some risk involved, though various other factors may reduce this risk. One of the major factors is lubrication. Chances for friction and potential tearing in your anus are lessened if plenty of lube was used. The amount of semen is certainly also a factor. It sounds like if there were any semen or pre cum, that it was a very small amount, which would lessen the chance of risk. Pre cum also carries less of the HIV virus than semen so that is another factor to consider.

Do you know anything about your partner regarding their history of sex partners, if they generally use condoms, or if they are an IV drug user? Those factors could provide some hint as to whether there might be more risk.


Offline RapidRod

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Re: Am I at risk?
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2006, 12:47:55 PM »
I see people on other site give false information quite often. You DID NOT have a risk, by rectifying the position of the condom.

Offline mannybolla

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Re: Am I at risk?
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2006, 12:53:48 PM »
Thank you sooo much, you guys and the folk at www.thebody.com are bar far the best resources on the net for these issues.

Thanks again! 

Offline mannybolla

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Re: Am I at risk?
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2006, 07:03:42 PM »
Hi several days ago I began this thread and it seems as if my anxiety shows its ugly head.  One thing that I did not mention in my original post is that I had just begun pep medications, following the DRs advice.  I explained to him what happened and he suggested that I begin the pep (over the phone and not even in person).  Now I am taking this medications with some side effects and eventhough I know, through this forum and others that my risk was low, I can bring myself to stop taking the pep.  I want to stop, but I keep thinking what if... if the condom broke and I didn't realize it, what if he tried to penetrate me without the condom on.. and so forth.  I am sure neither of these are true but it doesn't prevent me from becoming petrified.

I am sure part of this is that this encounter was an extra-marital encounter and as I see my wife and daughter the feelings of guilt are just as consuming. I think this is the basis of my anxiety. 

I know you all have covered this before on other threads, but how conclusive is a test at 6 weeks?  8 Weeks?  I am struggling to keep it together after one week from the encounter and I am counting the days.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Am I at risk?
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2006, 07:15:13 PM »
Manny like you've been told you don't need to have PEP. PEP consists of potent anti-HIV drugs which are well known for their odious side effects. If you choose to take them, then you probably won't get much sympathy from us when you're puking your guts up all day, given you don't need too.

Rather than popping toxic (and potentially dangerous) pills for no good reason and surfing sites like thebody, I'd recommend you speak to a counselor or therapist about your anxiety and guilt.

Regards,

MtD

Offline mannybolla

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Re: Am I at risk?
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2006, 07:19:07 PM »
I know, I posted my original post one day after I began taking them.  I was only following what I though was a competent doctors orders. 

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Am I at risk?
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2006, 07:21:03 PM »
Even on cases of legitimate risk (yours was not) PEP must be started within 24 hours of the event in order to be effective (this is down from the previous window of 72 hours).
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Ann

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Re: Am I at risk?
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2006, 07:40:44 PM »
Manny,

What's the real deal? In your first post you said
Quote
I am considering going to an ER to see if I can get PEP, is this an over reaction?
and now you're telling us that you had already been on PEP for a day before you posted?
Quote
I posted my original post one day after I began taking them.

If you want us to help you, you need to get your story straight. We don't need time wasters around here.

Ann

Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mannybolla

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Re: Am I at risk?
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2006, 07:47:38 PM »
I am sorry, I was really confused the first couple of days after the encounter.  The truth is that I had gone to my pcd and explained to him what happened and he prescribed the pep.  I did not mean to disrespect you all and all the wonderful work and hope you give to so many.  I am truly sorry if I offended anyone.

Offline Ann

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Re: Am I at risk?
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2006, 07:51:28 PM »
Manny,

Whatever. I hardly think you would have forgotten that you already started on PEP. Whatever your truth is, the truth is that you don't need PEP.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mannybolla

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Re: Am I at risk?
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2006, 08:07:38 PM »
Can I still ask for your help?  Please, I lied about going to the er as I had already contacted my pcd.  Can I just stop taking pep without any adverse consequences?

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Am I at risk?
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2006, 10:29:57 PM »
Can I still ask for your help?  Please, I lied about going to the er as I had already contacted my pcd.  Can I just stop taking pep without any adverse consequences?

Oy! Can we stop you asking?

Look, you've been told that you can stop taking PEP because you never needed it in the first place. In fact taking PEP when you don't need it can have adverse consequences. But if you don't believe me, keep on taking 'em. I submit that you'll find the side effects so unbearable you won't be able to hack it anyway.

When you lie to us you only hurt yourself. We can't answer your questions properly because we don't know what's true and what isn't and people aren't inclined to assist those who are dishonest. Given what you've described in this thread, I suspect you're caught in a web of fibs in more than one aspect of your life.

But it's not for Matty the Damned to judge such things.

That said, I urge you to read the Welcome Thread and continue working with your therapist.

MtD

Offline Gaby

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Don't know what's next??
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2006, 08:54:26 PM »
Hello all, here is my risk?  I am a male and during a casual encounter 5 weeks ago I am kinda concerned that I may have been exposed to HIV.  We did used a condom for the entire incident, but there was a moment where we tried a certain position and he was un able to "get it in" I was bottom.  Once we stopped tyring this position, I noticed that the condom had slipped off and was stuck to my cheek.  I am almost certain that there was no penetration but but over the last 5 weeks my mind plays tricks on me, such as what if he did get it in and I didn't notice or what if the tip of his penis just barely entered?  I am to the point that my anxiety has changed the whole picture of what happened. 

Two days after it happened I was so freaked out I went to my pcp and he prescribed PEP, I was kind hesitant to take them since I did not know if my risk elevated to that level.  I ended up taking them for 21 days before my body said no more so I stopped.  I tested EIA at 3 and 4 weeks, and as I enter my fifth week I don't know if I am imagining symptoms.  So my questions are 1) What was my risk?  2) can 21 days of PEP delay the onset of ARS 3) How much credence can I give to a 6 week test if neg (I am in Massachusetts and everyone here tells me its definitive)  Which leads to another question, can 21 days of PEP delay the creation of antibodies?

Thanks for you wisdom.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Don't know what's next??
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2006, 08:59:36 PM »
You in Mass. have to wait 6 weeks pass the last dose of PEP. I wouldn't have given you PEP to begin with because you didn't have a risk. You would have known for a fact if your anus would have been penetrated. You wouldn't be guessing about it.

Offline Gaby

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Re: Don't know what's next??
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2006, 09:07:14 PM »
One thing I failed to mention and that I am not proud of is that this was an extra martital affair, so I am so nervous that I out my self at risk and bring it home to my wife.  So guilt is also creating a depression beyond my ability to handle it.  I am now taking Wellburtin, klonopin and Valium just to deal with my anxiety and guilt, so knowing my level of risk is very helpful.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Don't know what's next??
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2006, 09:09:59 PM »
You didn't have a risk like I first said.

Offline Gaby

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Re: Don't know what's next??
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2006, 09:21:08 PM »
I know this is hard to answer, but should I have relations with my wife?  Would the risk be so non existant that this would be the right thing to do?  Also just to calm fears, if someone can answer weather PEP can delay the onset of ARS that would be great.  This was the firs time this has happened to me so I guess I am having a McGreevy episode (I'll leave that discussion for my therapist).  But as far as HIV (and I do believe you Rapid, just the anxiety) I have anything to worry about?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Don't know what's next??
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2006, 09:23:33 PM »
I've answered your question in the previous post. You didn't have a risk so there is no reason not to have sex with your wife.

Offline Ann

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Re: Don't know what's next??
« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2006, 04:35:03 AM »
Gaby,

Can I ask why you are using different usernames while posting to our forums? Thus far, you have also used mannybolla

Please realize that this kind of activity is disrespectful of other forum members, as well as our moderators. People spend a considerable amount of time helping others in these forums. Using multiple accounts is at the very least annoying, if not deceiving and disrespectful of others. It is also against our Terms of Membership which you agreed to when you became a member. This information is also contained within the Welcome Thread, which you should have read by now. So really, you have no excuse.

You must realize that the answers won't change, no matter how many names you post under.

I would appreciate a reply to this message, and I hope you will commit to using just one account - preferably your original one. If not, you will be banned from further access to the forums.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Gaby

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Re: Don't know what's next??
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2006, 12:09:32 PM »
Sorry, I figured that on my first thread I really messed up and disrespected you all by not being straight forward with my situation.  I have had weeks of anxiety and time to think about it and I wanted to begin again, this time being completely honest with you as well as being honest with myself.  I hope you will allow me to continue using this thread as I try cope with everything that has happened.  From being deceitful (to many), to struggling with who I am, to being scared about my risk, to seeking professional help.

Offline Ann

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Re: Don't know what's next??
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2006, 12:27:38 PM »
Mangaby,

I've merged your two threads, as we only allow one thread as well as one account per person. I've disabled your Gaby account - please return to your original account if you want to remain a member here. Do not create a third account because if you do, you will be banned, no questions asked. Got it? Good.

Ann

(edited for typos)
« Last Edit: September 26, 2006, 12:30:18 PM by Ann »
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mannybolla

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Re: Don't know what's next??
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2006, 12:37:15 PM »
Thanks Ann for giving me the opportunity to share my fears and have the chance to continue to ask questions regarding my risk.

There was one recent question I was hoping I could find an answer for regarding my situation, Matty was right, I could not handle the PEP .  But now I am wondering if 21 days of PEP can delay the onset of ARS related symptoms?

Offline Ann

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Re: Don't know what's next??
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2006, 12:39:54 PM »
Manny,

You didn't need PEP because you didn't have a risk. YOU DID NOT HAVE A RISK.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mannybolla

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Re: Don't know what's next??
« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2006, 12:50:06 PM »
Just to put in context as to what happen as it relates to my original post.  After we began, we tried a different position, as far as I can remember it did not work that way (as I said, 5 weeks of extreme anxiety has played tricks on my mind).  When we moved to another position is when I noticed that the condom had slipped off and that's when I insisted in a new condom and in the process of putting that new condom on is when I intially put on the wrong way.  That's it, that was my perceived risk.  I don't mean to test your patience, but this is no risk?

Offline Ann

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Re: Don't know what's next??
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2006, 01:12:03 PM »
manny,

NO RISK.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mannybolla

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Re: Don't know what's next??
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2006, 01:32:52 PM »
OK, I have tried and tired to accept that my incident(s) described above had not risk, but I can't accept it and its consuming my life.  Especially my second concern where the condom slipped off.  I keep repeating the incident in my mind but after 6 weeks now I can't get it straight.  Early on I was sure there was no penetration at that moment but now I am just a mess and don't know.  I need to know if I can see any indication at a neg 6 week test, eventhough I took 3 weeks of pep?  I will test again at 9 weeks which would be 6 weeks, since my last dose but I can hardly function at this point.  I have tried, started to see a therapist who is telling me I should tell my wife about my incident which is creating even more stress and anxiety for me.  I am taking anti anxiety medications but still I can't get past this.

Offline mannybolla

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Re: Don't know what's next??
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2006, 07:29:31 PM »
I know probably no one wants to answer my question, since I've been told it was no risk.  But please for my state of mind and so I can know where I am at; does a neg 6 week test eventhough I took 3 weeks of PEP say anything at all?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Don't know what's next??
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2006, 08:06:26 PM »
If you took PEP for a no risk incident. Then you have to wait another 13 weeks after your last dose. Who was the goober that gave you PEP in the first place? Gee so pete.

Offline mannybolla

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Re: Don't know what's next??
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2006, 08:18:39 PM »
My situation has been a mess since the beginning, when I was first called my pcp because of my perceived risk he didn't even see me.  Over the phone he suggested PEP and he left me a prescription with his receptionist an a note saying I might have side effects.  So my mistakes in handling my perceived risk started then, and now I am a complete mess.  I am trying to move on, I really am trying but I get drawn into looking up risk (on other sites) and I guess its hard for me to believe that even though I almost certain there was no penetration, I was the receptive partner I had no risk.

Offline Ann

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Re: Don't know what's next??
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2006, 08:22:07 PM »
manny,

It doesn't matter when you test over this incident, you didn't have a risk so of course your result is going to be negative.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mannybolla

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Re: Don't know what's next??
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2006, 08:33:07 PM »
Thanks for all the assurances and allowing me to continue to share my fears in order to keep my anxiety and depression from ripping my family appart. Its been very helpful as I continue to address my issues with my new therapist and family.  Although I won't promise this is my last post.

Offline Ann

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Re: Don't know what's next??
« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2006, 08:37:36 PM »
manny,

Before you get too effusive with the thank-yous, don't think for one minute that you are going to be allowed to continually post over this no risk event. You are really close to being given a time out. Please go read through the posting guidelines found in the Welcome thread and take note of what is said about time outs.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mannybolla

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  • Posts: 15
Re: Don't know what's next??
« Reply #37 on: October 06, 2006, 07:29:41 PM »
Please don't give me a time out for this last post.  I have a legitimate scientific question in regards to testing and this will absolutely be my last post regarding my perceived risk.  In many different posts you mention to folks that a negative EIA at six weeks is a very good indication of status.  Also that a neg test further along, you have all suggested is a further confirmation of neg status until a 13 week test which serves as a confirmation. 

Is also true after PEP, i.e. 6 weeks post PEP = good indication of status, 9 week post pep serve as an even better indication of status?

I again, hope I don't get "timed out" for asking this but I this with all the differences of opinion on the window period and PEP (even The Body has a different take on this) I want to educate my self as to the current most up to date information as it relates to HIV.

Thank you for your time,

Manny

Offline RapidRod

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  • Posts: 15,286
Re: Don't know what's next??
« Reply #38 on: October 06, 2006, 09:08:05 PM »
Someone on PEP, must wait 13 weeks after the last dose of medication before testing.

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Don't know what's next??
« Reply #39 on: October 06, 2006, 09:49:00 PM »
Manny,

Someone who actually had a risk of infection must wait three months after PEP for a conclusive result. You, however, never had a risk.

Your time out is looming...

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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