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Author Topic: TESTOSTERONE  (Read 8495 times)

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Offline romantictraveller

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TESTOSTERONE
« on: May 05, 2010, 02:48:28 PM »
Hello, I have a question regarding testosterone. I have been hiv positive for 7 years and finally convinced my doctor to take a testosterone test. Up to this point he wasn't willing to allow me to take one. My test results are below.

I am a 26 year old male and my results were 270 NG/DL. I believe the standard range is 220-850 NG/DL. From a few website that I looked at I should be almost be around 700 NG/DL correct? I am trying to figure out if I should be getting testosterone assistance, what kind of assistance, and/or if I am fine? Some side affects that I am experiencing currently are fatigue (Even after a full 8 hours of sleep), no sex drive at all, severe headaches. I am on Atriplia. Any advice that can be given, would be most appreciated.

Thank you

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2010, 03:03:41 PM »
If you're within the standard range I don't think a doctor will prescribe anything to boost you any higher.

Offline romantictraveller

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2010, 03:09:07 PM »
Just seems to me that I am so low compared to where I should be.

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2010, 03:18:41 PM »
Just seems to me that I am so low compared to where I should be.

If the standard is the range you gave, where are you seeing that your testosterone should be around 700?

Offline romantictraveller

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2010, 03:30:23 PM »
From researching online at a few different websites.

Offline romantictraveller

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2010, 03:32:53 PM »
A clip from thebody.com states that Much of the recent research suggests that people living with HIV should be in the upper range of normal, with men at ranges of at least 500 ng./dl. or higher. Jon Kaiser, M.D., author of Healing HIV, suggests that for peak health we should be in optimal ranges of 500 to 1000 ng./dl. of total testosterone levels for men

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2010, 03:44:40 PM »
A clip from thebody.com states that Much of the recent research suggests that people living with HIV should be in the upper range of normal, with men at ranges of at least 500 ng./dl. or higher. Jon Kaiser, M.D., author of Healing HIV, suggests that for peak health we should be in optimal ranges of 500 to 1000 ng./dl. of total testosterone levels for men

could you link it?  I'd be curious to see it.

Offline romantictraveller

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2010, 03:52:41 PM »

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2010, 04:19:58 PM »
Cool, I still would like to get mine checked to see where it is.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2010, 04:58:48 PM »
I a big advocate for Testosterone for those who need and want it . It has made a huge difference for me knock on my wood .

Offline Nashvegas

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2010, 05:14:54 PM »
If you weren't experiencing symptoms consistent with very low testosterone, a reading on the lower end of the
"normal" range might not be a red flag.  But you clearly ARE experiencing the effects of low testosterone, and your doctor should help you correct that.  No 26 year old should have to put up with what you're going through, in my view.  And if your doctor doesn't recognize that, then I'd say maybe you need a new doctor.   

I'd look at it the same way I look at CD4 counts.  Doctors generally recommend going on meds when your t-cells drop below 500 (or 350), but if you develop opportunistic infections like PCP or Kaposi Sarcoma, any doctor worth his or her salt would immediately put you on meds even if your t-cells were above the magic number.  The same should be true for severe symptoms of low testosterone even when your count is technically within the normal range. 

Get some Androgel or Testim and you'll immediately feel better (but, watch out, that Testim has a really strong musky scent that you won't notice after a while -- I put mine on at night and make sure to scrub well with a washcloth and lots of soap and water in the morning so as not to smell like a walking advertisement for some new cologne).  ;-)   
8/12/06 - sero-conversion
9/14/06 -- Positive Test results confirmed
9/21/06 -- CD4 - 586; viral load 8,000; 29%
12/25/06 -- CD4 - 373; VL 2,800; 23%
2/10/07 - CD4 - 228; VL 865; 25%
3/15/07 -  CD4 - 365 (no viral load test)
5/1/07 = CD4 - 341; VL 4,358; 27%
8/1/07 - CD4 - 315; VL - 2,300; 25%
9/20/07 - CD4 - 378
11/22/07 - CD4 - 257; VL 7,300;
2/27/08 - CD4 231 (16.5 %), VL 5,960
5/20/08 - CD4 229 (18.3%), VL 11,100
6/17/08 - CD4 166 (14.5%), VL 9,030
6/17/08 - STARTED VIRAMUNE + TRUVADA
7/2/08 - CD4 272 (20%), VL 113  :-)
7/16/08 - CD4 -217 (21.1 %), VL - Undetectable
7/30/08 - CD4 - 220 (20.4%). VL - 92
8/14/08 - CD4 - 280 (22%) VL-undetectable
1/04/09 - CD4 - 250 (28%) VL-UD
5/15/09 - CD4 -393 (28%) VL-UD
8/15/09 - CD4-346, (26%) VL-UD
11/15/09 - CD4-373 (28%)

Offline romantictraveller

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2010, 05:32:42 PM »
Hello Nashvegas. I appreciate your opinion. I have been bugging my doctor for years just to take the test, so the likelihood of him prescribing anything is slim to none. I take it there is probably nothing that I can get myself that would work? Do you know if the injection, patch, or gel is the better route to go?

Offline WillyWump

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2010, 05:59:32 PM »
Hello Nashvegas. I appreciate your opinion. I have been bugging my doctor for years just to take the test, so the likelihood of him prescribing anything is slim to none. I take it there is probably nothing that I can get myself that would work? Do you know if the injection, patch, or gel is the better route to go?

270??? LOL, I would kill for that.

If you can get him to prescribe it at all, it would prob be the gel. Given your levels, I dont think there would be any need for injections.

I started with a extremely low level of 30's, was on Androgel for 3months and my level only rose to 60. I then switched to everyday patch. Jsut tested yesterday and Im at 71. Doc wantd to go to injections but I begged for another 3 months with Patch.

My point is I think injections are ruled out for you, it would most likely be the gel. But I can tell you my doc would not prescribe any of it for a level of 270.

Good luck.
-Will

POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2010, 08:18:18 PM »
Hello Nashvegas. I appreciate your opinion. I have been bugging my doctor for years just to take the test, so the likelihood of him prescribing anything is slim to none. I take it there is probably nothing that I can get myself that would work? Do you know if the injection, patch, or gel is the better route to go?


If your doctor wont give it to you go get a second opinion . That's what I did and got the androgel I needed to feel better .

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2010, 08:40:57 PM »

If your doctor wont give it to you go get a second opinion . That's what I did and got the androgel I needed to feel better .

None of this is covered by ADAP right?  or is that dependent state to state.  How much does Testim or Androgel cost full price?

Offline romantictraveller

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2010, 08:54:02 PM »
WillyWump, I should be around 600-700 for what is called normal range from the link above. That article said that I would be like an 70 or 80 year old person. I don't think my doctor will prescribe to me, but I am trying to learn as much information as I can about testosterone and personal experiences.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2010, 09:58:05 PM »
Mine runs around 280.00 for Testim 1% 50 mg 30 tubes.

Offline WillyWump

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2010, 10:03:05 PM »
220.00 for Androderm patch here
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2010, 10:24:34 PM »
I'm on medicare part D so Androgel only cost me a small copay for part of the year .

I cut back to three pumps a day from six after my numbers went up to a high normal so I have a nice stock of the gel for the months I require a copay now .
 
« Last Edit: May 05, 2010, 10:33:24 PM by jg1962 »

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2010, 10:42:19 PM »
Well what I was reading was saying that the injections are the cheapest with the patches being next pricier and androgel being the priciest.  I suppose if my T were low I could figure out a way to afford shrinking my balls.

Offline WillyWump

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2010, 10:59:55 PM »
Well what I was reading was saying that the injections are the cheapest with the patches being next pricier and androgel being the priciest.  I suppose if my T were low I could figure out a way to afford shrinking my balls.

Yeah I balked at my docs suggestion for injections (for now), because I dont want to deal with the Rush I would get from receiving alot of test at once.  I already get a pretty noticable rush when I first put the patch on everday....the gel was worse.

But thats just me.
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2010, 11:08:03 PM »
After a few injections you'll change your mind. That shit is as thick as oil. I still have a bottle of it. It's a good reminder of why I went to gel.

Offline Merlin

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2010, 01:06:54 AM »
You may wanna consider an inexpensive way by cycling DHEA with caution. :)

http://www.boost-your-low-testosterone.com/dhea-testosterone.html
I'll leave Hatred to those not strong enough to Love.

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Believe & The Power Of The Mind Transforms.
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Offline palerider

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2010, 02:20:10 AM »
The one we can get in Oz is called Reandron 1000.
It's a block injection , every six weeks, bloody painful, and is slow release for up to 3 months.
The range we look at in Oz is 40-95 or so. Mine was 4.5.
Same as you, fatigue, water retention, even sore nipples, and less body hair. Good skin though.
After the shot, within 2 days, I was bouncing off the walls, happy, assertive, buoyant again. Hmmm, and the sex drive has returned.
I'd fuck mud if it moaned at the moment.

I could go through a football team like lightning through a wet dog., to coin a phrase. ;) ;) ;) ;D
My body has gone back to normal, getting my muscles back, I can do all my farmwork without a couple of naps in between.
Bloody great.

Offline romantictraveller

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2010, 11:14:44 PM »
Is anyone else able to share any advice or personal experiences?

Offline Jeff G

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2010, 07:46:24 AM »
The only other thing I might add is I have tried the injections and personally prefer the gel .

With the injections your levels of T . have highs and lows between treatments , with the gel that can be avoided . 

I have quite a few people I know most HIV neg . that are on the gel these days . It seems to be the new " it " thing for doctors to test and treat lately .

Offline stonethree

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2010, 10:51:46 AM »
 difficulty receiving this long established, common sense good therapy is a pet peeve of mine). you are on the younger side and if you are in relatively good health many providers will not WANT to prescribe it. you have a right, obligation to yourself to get a second opinion. You have a catastrophic physical ailment for god's sake that affects you emotionally and physically. As long as you are under medical supervision there is no indisputable reasoning for not letting you try it. Getting enough good protein and physical exercise is also critical to energy, mood, libido-better living period. Face it, most guys will feel better with more testosterone LET ALONE  HIV challenged men. If you don't accept no for an answer you will get that treatment or can get the RX written so you can seek out how to get it as economically as possible. The makers of ANDROGEL / Solvay Pharmaceuticals have a patient assistance program. If you meet their income requirements and have the script you should be able to get at least 1-2 months supply of packaged or pumped product.  Their  TOLL  FREE # 800 256 8918    Don't take no for an answer-best wishes.
Edward

Offline stonethree

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2010, 11:02:30 AM »
also too speaking to efficacy or preferences- shots vs. gels or patches. I'd not had shots for a while and gotten used the gel. I've had a few shots recently and am thankful either way. If you have the time, patience for the butt shots-which aren't really that bad-depending on the skills of the one delivering it.
The shot's are usually 200mg I believe. That's bi weekly or monthly mostly. Any way there's no perfect one answer fits all regarding this treatment.
Edward

Offline stonethree

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2010, 03:11:58 PM »
too as this a man centric issue, someone mentioned possible side effect of testicle shrinkage.
without getting too graphic or cocky that has not been my experience ;)
Edward

Offline odyssey

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2010, 08:25:54 PM »
Ok, so here some input regarding testosterone from a guy who's been on it for a few years, albeit for a different reason that most of you (I'm a transguy). I started with the shot, then switched to the patch, which caused an allergic reaction, as did the gel, so I'm back to the shot. However, to avoid the highs and lows issue that I would get if I took 200 mg every two weeks, I take 50 mg twice a week. Yeah, it kinda sucks having to get a shot twice a week, but its definitely worth it to have consistent hormone levels. Also, I self administer my injections. I had to do the first one in front of the nurse, when she was teaching me how to do it, but after that I was set to go. I just stick the needle in my quadriceps and inject and I'm all set for a few days. Gotta love the testosterone and the resulting effects on my sex drive!!! If you're lacking a sex drive and feeling tired and stuff, definitely seek a second opinion if your doc won't take you seriously.
01/09/09- diagnosed HIV+
01/16/09   CD4-425    22%  VL- 32,415
11/09- started Reyetaz/Norvir/Truvada
03/10- stopped R/N/T
10/18/11   CD4- 328   20%  VL- 84,000
10/25/11   CD4- 386   22%
10/28/11- start Truvada/Reyetaz/Norvir
12/30/11  CD4- 523  29%
03/08/12  CD4- 503  31%  VL 57
07/02/12  CD4- 897  43%
08/31/12  CD4- 745  39%
12/27/12  CD4- 884  40%
03/28/13  CD4- 819  39%
07/19/13  CD4- 739  40%
10/17/13  CD4- 535  36%
01/16/14  CD4- 743  43%

02/14- switched from R/N/T to Tivicay/Epzicom because of CKD 3 suspected from tenofovir.

03/14- switched back to R/N/T due to severe nausea and inability to eat on T/E.
 
04/01/14 CD4- 898  42%   VL-

Offline romantictraveller

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2010, 09:50:13 PM »
Thank you so much for your responses stonethree. I appreciate it and hope to have the chance to talk to my doctor this week. I am going to try and stay firm. Thank you! I'll let you know what happens.

Offline romantictraveller

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2010, 09:53:12 PM »
Thank you odyssey for your comments. I am going to for sure get a second opinion. It is hard sometimes because I belong to a HMO hospital, but I am not going to let that stop me.

Offline odyssey

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #32 on: May 09, 2010, 10:41:23 PM »
Oh, and by the way, the shot is by far the cheapest way to go. Both the patch and the gel cost about 200 to 300 dollars per month in total, but a 10 mg vial of testosterone is only about 90 bucks, maybe less, and that'll last you 4 to 5 months on a standard dosing. Injection supplies are pretty cheap too. Just some basic info for you to ponder.
01/09/09- diagnosed HIV+
01/16/09   CD4-425    22%  VL- 32,415
11/09- started Reyetaz/Norvir/Truvada
03/10- stopped R/N/T
10/18/11   CD4- 328   20%  VL- 84,000
10/25/11   CD4- 386   22%
10/28/11- start Truvada/Reyetaz/Norvir
12/30/11  CD4- 523  29%
03/08/12  CD4- 503  31%  VL 57
07/02/12  CD4- 897  43%
08/31/12  CD4- 745  39%
12/27/12  CD4- 884  40%
03/28/13  CD4- 819  39%
07/19/13  CD4- 739  40%
10/17/13  CD4- 535  36%
01/16/14  CD4- 743  43%

02/14- switched from R/N/T to Tivicay/Epzicom because of CKD 3 suspected from tenofovir.

03/14- switched back to R/N/T due to severe nausea and inability to eat on T/E.
 
04/01/14 CD4- 898  42%   VL-

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #33 on: May 09, 2010, 10:48:53 PM »
Oh, and by the way, the shot is by far the cheapest way to go. Both the patch and the gel cost about 200 to 300 dollars per month in total, but a 10 mg vial of testosterone is only about 90 bucks, maybe less, and that'll last you 4 to 5 months on a standard dosing. Injection supplies are pretty cheap too. Just some basic info for you to ponder.

Now just to trick my doctor into prescribing it...I mean what?

Offline WillyWump

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Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2010, 12:51:53 PM »
Now just to trick my doctor into prescribing it...I mean what?

Ok sexaholic, Have your doc test it. I bet your levels are in the 1000's :)

POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: TESTOSTERONE
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2010, 01:23:13 PM »
And hence we now see how this roid juice is over-used.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

 


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