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Author Topic: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners  (Read 3435 times)

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Offline tednlou2

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I got this from the "NO H8" campaign on Facebook.  It is from the Washington Post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/15/AR2010041505502.html

Offline odyssey

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2010, 11:46:33 PM »
No doubt the Repuke-licans and the religious right will have something to complain about this. But I say, good for Obama!
01/09/09- diagnosed HIV+
01/16/09   CD4-425    22%  VL- 32,415
11/09- started Reyetaz/Norvir/Truvada
03/10- stopped R/N/T
10/18/11   CD4- 328   20%  VL- 84,000
10/25/11   CD4- 386   22%
10/28/11- start Truvada/Reyetaz/Norvir
12/30/11  CD4- 523  29%
03/08/12  CD4- 503  31%  VL 57
07/02/12  CD4- 897  43%
08/31/12  CD4- 745  39%
12/27/12  CD4- 884  40%
03/28/13  CD4- 819  39%
07/19/13  CD4- 739  40%
10/17/13  CD4- 535  36%
01/16/14  CD4- 743  43%

02/14- switched from R/N/T to Tivicay/Epzicom because of CKD 3 suspected from tenofovir.

03/14- switched back to R/N/T due to severe nausea and inability to eat on T/E.
 
04/01/14 CD4- 898  42%   VL-

Offline leatherman

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2010, 12:28:02 AM »
this isn't really anything special. Just another Obama play at making nicey with teh gays.

I had all these "rights" clear back in 92 and then again in 08 by having a "Durable Medical Power of Attorney" for each of my partners. Sure I had to wave the papers around a bit in both cases when my partners were hospitalized before they passed away (good for the hospital though for not letting just any ol' body make medical decisions for other people); but I sure didn't need a president to give me "permission" as I already had the proper legal "permission".
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2010, 12:40:13 AM »
this isn't really anything special. Just another Obama play at making nicey with teh gays.

I had all these "rights" clear back in 92 and then again in 08 by having a "Durable Medical Power of Attorney" for each of my partners. Sure I had to wave the papers around a bit in both cases when my partners were hospitalized before they passed away (good for the hospital though for not letting just any ol' body make medical decisions for other people); but I sure didn't need a president to give me "permission" as I already had the proper legal "permission".

I'm still pretty ignorant of what ya have to do to get the "Durable Medical Power of Attorney".  I know I should know by now.  Did you have to get a lawyer?  I believe this new directive from Obama would allow me, for example, to tell the hospital I want my partner to make all medical decisions.  If I read it correctly, I wouldn't have to have legal forms done in advance.  I suppose it is still best to get those forms in case I wasn't able to speak to tell them I wanted him to make the decisions. 

And, I suppose family members could still go to court to override it.  However, I've read stories where families have done that even when the patient had legal papers drawn up. 

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2010, 12:44:20 AM »
this isn't really anything special. Just another Obama play at making nicey with teh gays.

I had all these "rights" clear back in 92 and then again in 08 by having a "Durable Medical Power of Attorney" for each of my partners. Sure I had to wave the papers around a bit in both cases when my partners were hospitalized before they passed away (good for the hospital though for not letting just any ol' body make medical decisions for other people); but I sure didn't need a president to give me "permission" as I already had the proper legal "permission".

This just makes it easier.  Also, courting the gay vote is all nice and good, but if he really wanted to get more votes he could just as easily woo a more dedicated (and less fickle voting bloc).  Can't the man just do this without political motivation but because it's the right thing to do?  Oh according to Boo I must be succumbing to my 20-something "naivete".

He said he would fight for gay civil rights and he's doing it.  I know it seems crazy but it's like he's actually trying to follow through on his campaign promises.

Offline leatherman

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2010, 01:00:45 AM »
I know it seems crazy but it's like he's actually trying to follow through on his campaign promises.
sadly "don't ask, don't tell" is still the policy. :-X
I don't want "courted". I want actions cause they speak louder than words and really mean something.
You may see this as "action"; but I only hear "words"

This just makes it easier.
you'll still have to prove who you are (you don't want just anybody telling the doc to pull your plug), especially without the same last names. If you can't prove your married, it's still going to take a legal piece of paper to cover the hospital's ass, so it's just words from the president. Besides, a truly "committed" couple, who are in the position to make medical decisions for one another, ought to have wills, living wills, powers of attorney, (marriage certificate), etc.

Trust me. I've had two partners in the hospital, buried one and cremated the other, it takes paperwork to make all that happen. With those papers, after I "proved" who I was, there was no problems with me making medical decisions. And making the decision both times to take them out of the hospital and home to die is a big damn decision and deserved having me prove that I was in a position to make that kind of decision. No president, undermining all the legal safeguards, telling hospitals to "let" me have that "right" is going to solve all those legal issues that demand those legal papers.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2010, 01:09:54 AM »
[flash=200,200]
This just makes it easier.  Also, courting the gay vote is all nice and good, but if he really wanted to get more votes he could just as easily woo a more dedicated (and less fickle voting bloc).  Can't the man just do this without political motivation but because it's the right thing to do?  Oh according to Boo I must be succumbing to my 20-something "naivete".

He said he would fight for gay civil rights and he's doing it.  I know it seems crazy but it's like he's actually trying to follow through on his campaign promises.

I agree.  He did get through hate crimes legislation.  He is moving towards getting rid of Don't Ask, Don't Tell.  He got the secretary of defense to stop discharges for now--right??  I didn't dream that, did I?  Maybe I did.  I think he learned from Clinton.  Clinton, in his first week in office, started on getting rid of the ban on gays in the military.  The repubs wore him down and he caved--giving us Don't Ask.  I'm often frustrated how slow things work.  I give him forbearance as he's been dealing with what experts said was going to be the next Great Depression.

 

Offline Boo Radley

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2010, 02:19:19 AM »
this isn't really anything special. Just another Obama play at making nicey with teh gays.

Please.  He's done more in one year than Bush did in 8.  The man has a lot of issues to deal with and equal rights for all people is one.  You do him an untruthful, mean-spirited disservice by pronouncing this decree as "[not] anything special."    The very legal documents you brag about won't be ABSOLUTELY necessary as they are now, as you have demonstrated by your own words.

I had all these "rights" clear back in 92 and then again in 08 by having a "Durable Medical Power of Attorney" for each of my partners...

Whoop de fucking doo!  I guess you've never heard of the many gay people who didn't have Power of Attorney, Durable Medical Power of Attorney, or a Living Will who were prevented from having contact with their partners in hospitals and even in their homes?  What about biological family who walked in, kicked the partner out, then made what little time the PWA had left even more miserable?  Only legal family can take those actions now unless, like you, the couple has the knowledge you were lucky enough to have.   Did you get all those documents the day after you and your late partners became a couple?  In 2010 most half-way educated unmarried couples (gay and straight) know these documents exist but should they be required to "wave them around" to do what they both want to do?
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline megasept

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2010, 02:31:09 AM »
He said he would fight for gay civil rights and he's doing it.  I know it seems crazy but it's like he's actually trying to follow through on his campaign promises.

"Fight for gay civil rights" he has not. His own website (OFA) changed "end 'Don't Ask Don't Tell'" to something more akin to Project Runway's Tim Gunn's "make it work". I was asked not to speak about Prop 8 (one-on-one, with another volunteer, in the chow line) within LA's South Central HQ by the national campaign's regional coordinator (not by our own leader Akili, who is progressive and now heads the NAACP here) I was part of this HQ's leadership group during my 5 weeks volunteering.

So, yeah, it "does seem crazy." Read what the late Civil Rights leader Bayard Rustin wrote about gays and civil rights in our America. He and the entire movement also faced the "Go Slow" crowd. The best way to get equality is fight for it ourselves. Powerful people respond best when constantly reminded of their promises. Lobbying our President for full civil equality is neither rude nor disloyal; it's seeking redress. Plus, we gain wonderful allies in the process, inspired by our activism. When the President ended the HIV travel ban (he did not initiate this process) I wrote to say "thanks."

-Steven (aka  8)  megasept)

« Last Edit: April 16, 2010, 02:36:20 AM by megasept »

Offline Boo Radley

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2010, 02:33:31 AM »

Oh according to Boo I must be succumbing to my 20-something "naivete".

I never said you're naive.  I said you're ignorant and arrogant (well, I used "hubris" but Roget would allow the switch), and stand by my words.  From your smug assertions about others but "moral relativism" about yourself in addition to some of your thoughtless, inane posts I inferred you are rather young, not very bright, and like many at your age think you know everything.   "Mandatory HIV testing," "2 studies [wow, 2 whole studies!] show undetectable [blood] VL translates to little/no risk," you're "adamantly against consciously stealing anything or lying... bla bla bla [BUT] As for mistakes in my favor that isn't stealing it's neglecting to correct a mistake" and other moronic crap you've posted indicates you often type without giving much thought to the issue.  How does one unconsciously steal?  You really see a difference between taking monetary advantage of someone's mistake and "stealing?"  I guess that's unconscious stealing... and you're not adamantly against that.  I could count the number of "smiley" slurs about older guys (as if you're not going to age) but can't be bothered.   You post in Etay's latest thread you have him on ignore and advise us all to follow suit, which somewhat negates the claim that you're ignoring him.   

I also suspect from some of what you've written you're a little spoiled but won't go there now.  I'm too bored.

String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline Boo Radley

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2010, 02:54:20 AM »
"Fight for gay civil rights" he has not. His own website (OFA) changed "end 'Don't Ask Don't Tell'" to something more akin to Project Runway's Tim Gunn's "make it work". I was asked not to speak about Prop 8 (one-on-one, with another volunteer, in the chow line) within LA's South Central HQ by the national campaign's regional coordinator (not by our own leader Akili, who is progressive and now heads the NAACP here) I was part of this HQ's leadership group during my 5 weeks volunteering.

So Barack personally asked you not to mention Prop 8 in your whole 5 weeks of volunteering?   I certainly understand how that might make one jaded. 

Quote

...Read what the late Civil Rights leader Bayard Rustin wrote about gays and civil rights in our America. He and the entire movement also faced the "Go Slow" crowd. The best way to get equality is fight for it ourselves. ...

-Steven (aka  8)  megasept)

I have read Bayard Rustin's own words and those of some of his peers and partners in the battle for equal rights for all.   He was a mentor to M.L. King, Jr., who unsuccessfully fought the homophobia of many civil rights proponents of the 1950s and beyond.   But Rustin died in 1987, about a year or 2 after he made the now famous speech declaring "The new 'niggers' are gays."   If King hadn't been assassinated I believe he would have worked with Rustin and others to continue the battle for civil rights.  Mrs. King was one of the first of that group to equate homophobia with racism and the NAACP, among numerous other organizations, has made the same equation.  Rustin is a man I admire very much but he's been dead for almost 25 years.  Surely there are more contemporary examples you could use to make your point.
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2010, 03:00:26 AM »
I never said you're naive.  I said you're ignorant and arrogant (well, I used "hubris" but Roget would allow the switch), and stand by my words.  From your smug assertions about others but "moral relativism" about yourself in addition to some of your thoughtless, inane posts I inferred you are rather young, not very bright, and like many at your age think you know everything.   "Mandatory HIV testing," "2 studies [wow, 2 whole studies!] show undetectable [blood] VL translates to little/no risk," you're "adamantly against consciously stealing anything or lying... bla bla bla [BUT] As for mistakes in my favor that isn't stealing it's neglecting to correct a mistake" and other moronic crap you've posted indicates you often type without giving much thought to the issue.  How does one unconsciously steal?  You really see a difference between taking monetary advantage of someone's mistake and "stealing?"  I guess that's unconscious stealing... and you're not adamantly against that.  I could count the number of "smiley" slurs about older guys (as if you're not going to age) but can't be bothered.   You post in Etay's latest thread you have him on ignore and advise us all to follow suit, which somewhat negates the claim that you're ignoring him.   

I also suspect from some of what you've written you're a little spoiled but won't go there now.  I'm too bored.



It must be so hard being the moral compass for all those of us who are completely bereft of one.  Simultaneously, being the wise old sage who imparts his wisdom on the immature and stupid Gen X children that frolic on your forums must just keep your day extremely busy.

I do have Etay on ignore and I know this is hard to wrap your head around, but while I really couldn't give a rat's ass about what he has to say the other people who respond to him are people that I am interested in and care about.  I'd love for Etay to be exposed for what he really is, but he seems to be doing his best to tread the line clearly on the side of caution.

As for mandatory testing, I'm sure it would be just terrible for everyone to know their HIV status at least once every four years, although I would personally think once a year testing would be a better standard.

I tend to like and get along with most older people as well.  I don't think of them as dim witted senior citizens or completely unattractive wastes of space.  It's just you I have a problem with, because you're an unpleasant guy in pretty much all aspects.  The only ribbing I gave to you about your age was a joke meant to make you like me.  Epic Fail apparently, you can dish it but you sure can't take it.

I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things and while I can certainly see where someone might respectfully disagree with me on any number of things you can't comprehend the fact that you might be wrong.  So you mock me with complete disdain citing my age, my lack of intellect, and apparently now the fact that you've figured out I'm "spoiled".  My favorite part is where you pick apart only the nuggets of my posts that you think will prove your point or make me look bad while ignoring the rest of the information(Wikipedia: straw man argument).  I hope that gives you the feeling of superiority you're obviously craving.  You're so self assured however, I'm sure that you will probably ignore all of this considering how much smarter and more mature you are than I.

Offline Boo Radley

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2010, 03:30:16 AM »
Trey, sweetie, instead of a long harangue why don't you cite specific effronteries and defects?  You basically spit my words back.  Don't get your panties all bunched up.  Take a deep breath.

It must be so hard being the moral compass for all those of us who are completely bereft of one.  Simultaneously, being the wise old sage who imparts his wisdom on the immature and stupid Gen X children that frolic on your forums must just keep your day extremely busy.

Your point?   You're the one who plays moral compass, baby.  A sage is wise by definition and usually connotes someone older.  Or did you mean I'm a wise old herb?

I do have Etay on ignore ...

Great.  Ignore him.

As for mandatory testing, I'm sure it would be just terrible ...

Sigh... get a clue, please.

I tend to like and get along with most older people as well.  I don't think of them as dim witted senior citizens or completely unattractive wastes of space.  It's just you I have a problem with, because you're an unpleasant guy in pretty much all aspects.  The only ribbing I gave to you about your age was a joke meant to make you like me.  

I wasn't offended by your reference to me and the ones you made to others don't really bother me.  I was your age once.  I've never associated with my so-called peers so from childhood to today my friends tend(ed) to be older or younger.  The difference is I didn't make assumptions or "innocuous" remarks based on age, young or old.  I actually do like you but that won't stop me from arguing when we have differences of opinion.   Sorry you have a problem with me but it's yours, sweetie, not mine.

I've argued with you and against you so if you can't handle it put me on actual ignore, not etay ignore...
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline darkerpozz

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2010, 06:10:14 AM »
My feeling is that this country was in a serious trouble before Obama got in office and to expect him to be able to change the world with an instant swipe of the pen seems a bit ridiculous.  He is getting done as  much as he can and calculating his every step because you know Republicans in government are fighting everything with his name for no reason other than it has his name. I know I am not the gem of  the group but I can tell he is trying and that some people love to complain about anything just to complain. I accept that and enjoy reading cause I never know where I might learn something...but give me a break. We had Bush for eight long years and Obama has been there a little over a year.

Offline David_CA

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2010, 10:08:24 AM »
No matter what Obama does, it's just never enough, is it?  Come on, give the guy a break.  This country's screwed in so many ways that effect so many people.  Certainly we should expect him to concentrate on those.  The fact that he did something to allow same-sex hospital visits without a big congressional to-do should be appreciated. 

Kind of related... I've always thought that this push for same-sex marriage was all wrong.  What most seem to feel that they're being deprived of are civil, legal, and financial benefits.  Give me those; I couldn't give a rat's ass if it's called marriage or not.  To me, steps towards giving my husband and I those 'benefits' are good.
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline chguy78

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2010, 10:28:46 AM »
This "new" directive (some states, including NC, had this rule in effect already) seems to only apply to visitation rights and not who gets to make healthcare decisions in the case of incapacitation unless the patient makes advance directives.  If the patient is incapacitated at the time of admission, it sounds as if it will go back to the default rules of closest kin.

As leatherman indicated, and in my opinion, a Healthcare Power of Attorney is still the way to go. 

I'm still pretty ignorant of what ya have to do to get the "Durable Medical Power of Attorney".  I know I should know by now.  Did you have to get a lawyer?

No, you definitely don't need a lawyer for this.  You can contact your local Lambda Legal office, local law school clinics or legal aid offices for sample forms that can be used in your jurisdiction. Some states have forms in their statutes that will be presumed to be valid and all you have to do is just fill in the blanks.
01/11: CD4=753 (36%), VL=Undetectable
07/10: CD4=531 (33%), VL=Undetectable
04/10: CD4=746 (33%), VL=Undetectable
01/10: CD4=566 (35%), VL=Undetectable
10/09: CD4=436 (31%), VL=405
07/09: CD4=631 (27%), VL=847
06/09: Started: Truvada, Reyataz, Norvir
05/09: CD4=426 (28%), VL=38,300
04/09: Positive; CD4=466 (28%), VL=39,700
10/08: Negative

Offline chguy78

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2010, 10:32:42 AM »
Kind of related... I've always thought that this push for same-sex marriage was all wrong.  What most seem to feel that they're being deprived of are civil, legal, and financial benefits.  Give me those; I couldn't give a rat's ass if it's called marriage or not.  To me, steps towards giving my husband and I those 'benefits' are good.

I used to feel this way, too, since marriage, historically was nothing more that a legal process to pass property (the woman) from one man (the father) to another (the husband).  Nevertheless, history shows us that it is hard to achieve "separate but equal."
01/11: CD4=753 (36%), VL=Undetectable
07/10: CD4=531 (33%), VL=Undetectable
04/10: CD4=746 (33%), VL=Undetectable
01/10: CD4=566 (35%), VL=Undetectable
10/09: CD4=436 (31%), VL=405
07/09: CD4=631 (27%), VL=847
06/09: Started: Truvada, Reyataz, Norvir
05/09: CD4=426 (28%), VL=38,300
04/09: Positive; CD4=466 (28%), VL=39,700
10/08: Negative

Offline David_CA

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2010, 11:07:46 AM »
I used to feel this way, too, since marriage, historically was nothing more that a legal process to pass property (the woman) from one man (the father) to another (the husband).  Nevertheless, history shows us that it is hard to achieve "separate but equal."

You know, sometimes 'separate but equal' doesn't seem so bad to me.  After all, there's a lot of baggage associated with marriage; what's acceptable, or even considered commonplace, in a gay relationship is generally not acceptable in a heterosexual marriage.  Specifically, I'm referring to gay partners in a committed, often long-term relationship, having other sexual partners.  Generally there are some agreed upon 'rules', but I doubt many of my straight married friends would accept any sort of extramarital sex. 

Even if same-sex marriage were implemented right now in the US, the ones who oppose it would be the same ones who would not accept hubby and my relationship, although we are legally married in countries and states that allow for such.  'Same' does not equal accepted regardless of what it's called.  I suppose in time this wouldn't be so much a problem as people become more accustomed to it.  I remember my grandmother telling me about when the factory where she worked desegregated the restrooms... it was such a big deal back then!
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Offline leatherman

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2010, 11:20:37 AM »
Please.  He's done more in one year than Bush did in 8.  The man has a lot of issues to deal with and equal rights for all people is one.  You do him an untruthful, mean-spirited disservice by pronouncing this decree as "[not] anything special."
No matter what Obama does, it's just never enough, is it?  Come on, give the guy a break.  This country's screwed in so many ways that effect so many people.  Certainly we should expect him to concentrate on those.  The fact that he did something to allow same-sex hospital visits without a big congressional to-do should be appreciated.
oh I'm not anti-Obama. It's just in the long run, you'll still need legal documents to accomplish the task of caring for a partner in the hospital. These are very nice words from Obama but they're not actions (legal precedence) that will mean much in times of crisis (ie making medical decisions for your partner). in the end the lawyers and hospital offices will need those legal documents, so they don't get sued - and so they know who to bill. ;)

Quote
The very legal documents you brag about won't be ABSOLUTELY necessary as they are now, as you have demonstrated by your own words.
well. it isn't anything special. it is just words. Married people "prove" by their marriage that they are responsible for each other bills and medical decisions. Unmarried people will still have to have legal documents proving the same. Legal documents will always be neccesary. ::)

Quote
Whoop de fucking doo!
Oh I don't talk about my dead partners to "brag". (and you can keep your "fucking doo" to yourself :P) You people are all talking theoretical, while I'm talking practical. How many partners have you buried to know what documents are needed and not needed? It's all well and good for Obama to say this; but in the end the hospital needs legal documents to cover they ass on letting someone else besides the patient make a medical decision, AND someone to legally be liable for the bills.

Quote
I guess you've never heard of the many gay people who didn't have Power of Attorney, Durable Medical Power of Attorney, or a Living Will who were prevented from having contact with their partners in hospitals and even in their homes?
ignorance of the law is no excuse. I never had those problems you mentioned because I had legal documents.

By your comment you seem to want to make gay people victims of their own stupidity. All legal adults, single or coupled or married, should have these kinds of documents taken care of. No one should end up in the quandray like the Schivos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_schivo)

Quote
Only legal family can take those actions now unless, like you, the couple has the knowledge you were lucky enough to have.   Did you get all those documents the day after you and your late partners became a couple?
With the first partner, we signed all those papers in our 9th year together when we both found out we had AIDS. With my second partner of 10 yrs, with whom I had only been living in his house for the previous year, who suddenly became ill and died 69 days later, we signed papers in the hospital on the 2nd day, just a few days before we were told about his AIDS and lymphoma. Thank goodness I had gone through the whole procedures before and knew what documents would be needed. (also they are very easy to obtain and make valid)

and since both partners are dead and I ended up having to move down to my Mom's house, on the 7th day I was in her house, I made me, her and her husband take care of putting all those papers together for the three of us. (Along with a quick claim deed on the house, so I don't end up almost homeless ever again).

As leatherman indicated, and in my opinion, a Healthcare Power of Attorney is still the way to go. 

No, you definitely don't need a lawyer for this.  You can contact your local Lambda Legal office, local law school clinics or legal aid offices for sample forms that can be used in your jurisdiction. Some states have forms in their statutes that will be presumed to be valid and all you have to do is just fill in the blanks.
Most states have these forms already online. Go to your state's website and look up "advance directives", "living will", "medical power of attorney". In most states, all you need to make them valid are two witnesses, and not even a notary. Most states have some restrictions that the witnesses can't be family, your doctors, or beneficiaries. Nurses, hospital staff, social services, and friends are perfect for witnesses.
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Offline dixieman

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2010, 11:31:49 AM »
I think this is Great but, now I have to find me a partner to visit me if I'm ever in the hospital? Figure... theres always a catch...

Offline chguy78

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2010, 11:32:18 AM »
You know, sometimes 'separate but equal' doesn't seem so bad to me.  After all, there's a lot of baggage associated with marriage; what's acceptable, or even considered commonplace, in a gay relationship is generally not acceptable in a heterosexual marriage.  Specifically, I'm referring to gay partners in a committed, often long-term relationship, having other sexual partners.  Generally there are some agreed upon 'rules', but I doubt many of my straight married friends would accept any sort of extramarital sex. 

I understand your point but think you could be surprised.  Marriage in some religions may be a restrictive as you believe (sex should be for procreation only, no birth control, monogamy, etc.); however, marriage in the civil sense or, for that matter, in other religions are not.  Relationships during marriage should be as free from governmental approval or control in homosexual relationships as they are (or should be) in heterosexual relationships.

I remember my grandmother telling me about when the factory where she worked desegregated the restrooms... it was such a big deal back then!

I think that's the crux of the problem: so long as the government treats the relationships differently, why wouldn't its citizens?  I agree that even when the government no longer treats the relationships differently, there won't be an overnight change of popular perception but it can't hurt (at least in the long-run).

OK, enough of this off-topic discussion.  Sorry, tednlou2.
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Offline GNYC09

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2010, 06:23:58 PM »
I never had those problems you mentioned because I had legal documents.

By your comment you seem to want to make gay people victims of their own stupidity. All legal adults, single or coupled or married, should have these kinds of documents taken care of. No one should end up in the quandray like the Schivos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_schivo)

I read today that, "Gay rights advocates said the rules change was inspired by one of those cases involving a same-sex couple [of 18 years], Janice Langbehn and Lisa Pond...After Ms. Pond was stricken with a fatal brain aneurysm, Ms. Langbehn [and their four children] denied visiting rights in 2007 by a Florida hospital although Ms. Langbehn had power of attorney...Ms. Pond died as Ms. Langbehn tried in vain to get to her side." 

So, unfortunately, having legal documents didn't necessarily mean you were granted hospital visiting rights.  I'm happy to hear this was not the case with you and am glad Obama made this decision.

Offline bocker3

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2010, 07:22:26 PM »
oh I'm not anti-Obama. It's just in the long run, you'll still need legal documents to accomplish the task of caring for a partner in the hospital. These are very nice words from Obama but they're not actions (legal precedence) that will mean much in times of crisis (ie making medical decisions for your partner). in the end the lawyers and hospital offices will need those legal documents, so they don't get sued - and so they know who to bill. ;)
well. it isn't anything special. it is just words. Married people "prove" by their marriage that they are responsible for each other bills and medical decisions. Unmarried people will still have to have legal documents proving the same. Legal documents will always be neccesary. ::)

Obama can't make a wholesale change to hundreds of years of legal precedence when it comes to who gets to make medical decisions for an incapacitated partner -- this is true.  however, that is NOT what this is about -- you are being blinded by your experience to what is all too common across the country.

What he can do, and DID, was insure that you can't be kept away from the bedside of a partner in need -- where you are likely the person they most want and need.  If a couple has not gotten the legal docs they need to make decisions -- it would at least be very comforting to a sick or dying person to KNOW their partner can be with them.

For that he deserves thanks, not a "he should have done more".

mike
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Offline leatherman

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2010, 07:41:09 PM »
What he can do, and DID, was insure that you can't be kept away from the bedside of a partner in need
No what he did was write a memo to request a change in the medicare rules, saying that you shouldn't be denied visitation but IF you are denied visitation rights, you might be able to win the lawsuit rather that have it dismissed 3 yrs later as with happened with the couple that was mentioned in the article (whom the president spoke with), and the hospital (if it accepts medicare or medicaid) can be fined. Just like with this couple, the homophobes in a hospital can still deny your visitation, but the hospital can be fined.

this is only a presidental memo and not anything like a law or permanent rule.
http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/04/15/2010rightspatients.mem.final.rel.pdf
This memorandum is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

info about the case of the lesbian couple is here
http://www.lambdalegal.org/in-court/cases/langbehn-v-jackson-memorial.html
http://data.lambdalegal.org/in-court/downloads/langbehn_fl_20080902_complaint-amended.pdf
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2010, 01:35:06 AM »
He is authorizing DHHS to make these rules to any hospital that takes Medicare or Medicaid--which is most hospitals, right?  I guess it really isn't like legislation from Congress as a new president could change the rules?  It all gets confusing about executive orders.  I know when Obama came into office, I remember seeing something on the news how he could change some Bush things, but may not be able to change every Bush order.  I will research this more to see what the rules are.

 

Offline bocker3

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2010, 10:31:14 AM »
No what he did was write a memo to request a change in the medicare rules, saying that you shouldn't be denied visitation but IF you are denied visitation rights, you might be able to win the lawsuit rather that have it dismissed 3 yrs later as with happened with the couple that was mentioned in the article (whom the president spoke with), and the hospital (if it accepts medicare or medicaid) can be fined. Just like with this couple, the homophobes in a hospital can still deny your visitation, but the hospital can be fined.

this is only a presidental memo and not anything like a law or permanent rule.
http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/04/15/2010rightspatients.mem.final.rel.pdf
This memorandum is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

info about the case of the lesbian couple is here
http://www.lambdalegal.org/in-court/cases/langbehn-v-jackson-memorial.html
http://data.lambdalegal.org/in-court/downloads/langbehn_fl_20080902_complaint-amended.pdf

Clearly there is no way that you are willing to look at this from any angle beyond your own.  So be it.
 
However, I can't leave without saying that your logic here could also apply to someone with a whole boatload of legal documents.  A homophobe hospital adminstrator could still prevent you from seeing a partner or doing anything.  They might know they would lose in court, but if they drag it on long enough for the patient to die -- who has "won"?  What this does is put potential $$$ consequences on the hospital -- and an administrator is probably going to be more concerned with keeping their job over keeping a same-sex partner out of a patient's room.

Mike
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Offline leatherman

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2010, 11:37:56 AM »
What this does is put potential $$$ consequences on the hospital -- and an administrator is probably going to be more concerned with keeping their job over keeping a same-sex partner out of a patient's room.
hmm, in this case with the lesbians, the $$ consequences didn't make the administration more concerned about keeping their jobs (this went to court therefore it did cost the hospital money already). Bigotry doesn't usually care about the $$$ consequences down the road. However, I do agree that this has the potential to make it more costly for a hospital to do this same action in the future.

Clearly there is no way that you are willing to look at this from any angle beyond your own.  So be it.
so if I don't want to look at this from any other angle than yours, then you just don't want to discuss it? If I don't want to switch my opinion to yours then you don't want to hear my opinions about the issue? If I'd like to defend my viewpoints then you no longer want to "discuss" the issue? If I don't want to take what some gov't official says in a memo at face value, then you don't want to discuss the issue with me? You don't want to discuss how this kind of action already costs a hospital money and that wasn't incentive enough; but some extra "fine" (of undetermined amt that isn't spelled out in this "memo") might? You don't want to discuss how a hospital will still need legal documents to allow someone else to make someone's health care decisions for them (that doesn't change at all with this presidental memo). You don't want to discuss how this isn't even a law, much less enforceable?

cleary and obviously, you didn't really want to discuss this issue at all. You just wanted to believe what you wanted to believe and didn't want to see it from any other angle than your own. You just wanted to think that some token words from a president will suddenly make stigma and homophobia go away, and allow hospitals to just get past the need for the legal documents. ok, so be it.
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Offline bocker3

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2010, 12:27:59 PM »
so if I don't want to look at this from any other angle than yours, then you just don't want to discuss it? If I don't want to switch my opinion to yours then you don't want to hear my opinions about the issue? If I'd like to defend my viewpoints then you no longer want to "discuss" the issue? If I don't want to take what some gov't official says in a memo at face value, then you don't want to discuss the issue with me? You don't want to discuss how this kind of action already costs a hospital money and that wasn't incentive enough; but some extra "fine" (of undetermined amt that isn't spelled out in this "memo") might? You don't want to discuss how a hospital will still need legal documents to allow someone else to make someone's health care decisions for them (that doesn't change at all with this presidental memo). You don't want to discuss how this isn't even a law, much less enforceable?

cleary and obviously, you didn't really want to discuss this issue at all. You just wanted to believe what you wanted to believe and didn't want to see it from any other angle than your own. You just wanted to think that some token words from a president will suddenly make stigma and homophobia go away, and allow hospitals to just get past the need for the legal documents. ok, so be it.

Just take a deep breathe -- Jesus Christ man -- no one has said what you say is WRONG about the need for legal documents.  What I, and I believe others have said, is that this is a win for same-sex couple -- not an end game.

Without this, if my partner was in the hospital and his family told the hospital staff that I couldn't visit, there would be nothing the hospital could do -- EVEN IF THEY WANTED TO LET ME VISIT.  What this order will do, is enable a hospital to tell that family that they can NOT bar me from visiting.  If you can't see that as a win -- even a small one, then there is NO DISCUSSION to be had.  You keep going back to the need for legal docs, I have them and I agree they are necessary for ANY unmarried couple (gay or straight, by the way).  However there is now another mechanism to fight a homophobic family who doesn't want a partner to visit a sick or dying partner.
So -- to say that I want to withdraw because I don't agree with you is nuts.  No where have I said that this will wipe out homophobia and stigma.  That comment just shows that you are being blinded to what others are saying and casting your interp to what is being said.  I agree with most of what you say -- the only part I don't agree with is that the move means nothing.  It would have meant the world to that lesbian couple and countless other couples.  It is YOU who refuses to discuss -- you who refuses to give a cogent reason why this isn't a win for us -- not an end to the war, but a win.

Mike
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Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2010, 01:57:14 PM »
I think it is great that Obama took a stand and did something to support gay and lesbian couples. He could have very easily ignored the whole issue and avoided criticism. I work at a hospital and personally have never seen any kind of overt discrimination but it is always good to have policy on your side. Honestly what I see more frequently that upsets me are people who have no family or friends and are in the hospital completely alone.

I don't know about other cities but I have noticed a surge in anti-Obama bumper stickers. We recently had a Tea Party rally and that might have something to do with it.

Offline chguy78

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Re: Obama Extends Hospital Visitation Rights to Same-Sex Partners
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2010, 03:05:00 PM »
Edited: Deleted Post
« Last Edit: April 17, 2010, 03:16:52 PM by chguy78 »
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