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Author Topic: The Ethics of Bareback Porn  (Read 11754 times)

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Offline Miss Philicia

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The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« on: April 02, 2010, 03:21:35 AM »
uh... DISCUSS! :)

source

The Ethics of Bareback
March 31, 2010
   
Condom-less porn (or bareback) is on the rise in gay outlets, and as popularity creates a demand for more and more, studios and performers are leaving the protection in the nightstand.
Condoms and cotton swabs, oh my!

Think about the last time you watched a porn film. Were you at home, by yourself? Were you with your partner? Did you have fun and get off? Probably so, right? After all, what’s hotter than… watching one person give another an incurable STD?

Nothing, right?

Wait. Not what you wanted to see? Well, chances are pretty good that you are. After all, the likelihood that you’re watching performers who are wearing condoms or taking other safer sex precautions is fairly slim, especially if you’re watching heterosexual porn. Condom-less porn (or bareback) is on the rise in gay outlets as well, and as popularity creates a demand for more and more, studios and performers are leaving the protection in the nightstand.

For decades now, there’s been a wide gap between the use of condoms, testing, and other safer sex practices in gay and straight porn. Currently, the straight porn industry relies on monthly STI testing via the Adult Industry Medical Healthcare Foundation (AIM). Testing is an effective way for tracking infections and monitoring them, but it’s not a perfect system. HIV can take almost ten days to appear on a test. At best that leaves a performer ten days to work without knowing their status and, at worst, possibly forty days if they’re infected shortly before their monthly test. While HIV is certainly one of the most concerning STIs, it’s not the only one: according to The Los Angeles Times, Los Angeles County receives between 60 to 80 reports of new cases of Chlamydia and gonorrhea a month from adult performers from AIM.

When a straight porn performer contracts HIV, the industry reacts, production shuts down as it did in 2004 and the performer is generally barred from working with companies of any note. When a gay porn performer contracts HIV, nobody knows. Everyone keeps making porn, and everyone keeps watching it.

In the gay porn industry, major studios generally require condom use, but few also rely on testing. In a non-scientific survey conducted by Michael Stabile of TheSword.com, a popular website that regularly features and interviews mainstream gay porn stars and producers, 96 self-selected performers answered questions on their HIV status and work practices. 18.4 percent of the performers who responded anonymously admitted that they were HIV+, while another 10 percent acknowledged that they weren’t sure of their status.

“[There] has been a significant increase in the bareback business, creating pressure to have unprotected sex. Some productions are ready to pay more for unsafe sex, even shooting films in poorer countries where actors are more likely to accept the risk of HIV infection,” wrote Thierry Schaffauser, a sex-worker and activist, in a recent editorial for The Guardian.

Multiple agencies have tried to urge regulation of testing and condom requirements, and the idea isn’t as ridiculous as it sounds. Porn sets, like factory floors, are work places, and should fall under the purview of OSHA just the same. However, the porn industry isn’t inherently centralized, and productions happen all across the country—often under less than legal or honest circumstances. While it’s easy to target the large studios, small producers also risk the health of performers and are harder to regulate. Even if legislation were to be considered and passed, enforcing it would be nearly impossible.

Just because we can’t regulate it doesn’t mean that we have to support it.

  Vote with your dollars

An argument can be made that producers have the right to make bareback porn, just as consenting adults have the right to perform in bareback porn. But just because an entity has a right to make something doesn’t make the production itself right. Wal-Mart has the right to move production off-shores to benefit from poor labor laws, it doesn’t make it ethical that they do so.

In order to better understand the mindset of the bareback porn consumer, I did a small, completely non-scientific survey of my own. I put out a call to my readers, asking if anyone would be willing to discuss their viewing habits. The four men who answered my questions ranged from 22 years of age to 43 and lived anywhere from Alabama to Berlin. Each had his own reasons for watching bareback porn, but in the end it came down to wanting to see sex uninterrupted by a condom.

“(Bareback porn) shows the purest form of sex,” says Conrad, a 22-year-old from Berlin.

“Being HIV+, it is affirming watching my people have bareback sex with each other. Porn stimulates fantasy, imagination, and forbidden desires. For me these don’t involve condoms,” says Martin, a 37-year-old from New York. “My point of view is informed by the initial bareback porn produced in the late ’90s by three studios (HDK, Dick Wadd, and Treasure Island), whose performers were all already positive... Clearly, as your questions imply, things are different now.”

All of the men I spoke to admitted to being ignorant of the testing policies involved in the production of films they watch. “I am not aware of them, but I hope they are very rigorous,” says Conrad.

“Honestly, I don’t really want to know and I don’t go check on these things before I watch porn that features [bareback] sex,” says Adrian, a 29-year-old from London.

Porn performers might be better off if every actor were treated as HIV+, but only if that means that condoms and testing become mandatory. It’s not likely to happen, though, unless we as consumers become more educated about the porn we support. Bareback porn is like the worst kind of capitalism as practiced in America. We tend to value low prices more than we do ethical production methods. With consumer products it gets you cheap goods, purchased without any consideration for how those goods were produced. With bareback porn it gets you your fantasy—condom-less sex—without any consideration for the risks to the performers onscreen.

There are a lot of things that humans do or pay to watch others do that aren’t completely safe, and there’s nothing wrong with that. People should be allowed to take risks, but there is a difference between a risk and an unnecessary risk. NASCAR is an incredibly risky form of entertainment, but we don’t ask the drivers to go without seat belts. We don’t ask football players to play without helmets, construction workers to work without hardhats, or nurses to work without gloves. Why should we ask porn stars to perform without a condom just so that we can see “natural sex?”

It’s impossible to make porn—or sex of any kind, for that matter—completely safe. It’s unfortunate that we live in a world where sex comes pre-packaged with a slew of potentially dangerous side effects. This is nothing new. The reality of STIs hang over any sexual act. Putting a camera in between the performers and the consumers may protect the consumer, but the consumer was never really at risk anyway. Masturbation is one hell of a safe sex act. Having sex with multiple partners in order to entertain consumers is not.

A common complaint that I’ve heard regarding safer sex and porn is the unfortunate sleight-of-hand that comes with having condoms magically appear. If done artfully, there’s no reason showing performers putting condoms on couldn’t be sexy. Even fumbling or lack of continuity is preferable to putting the performers at risk.

Let’s be clear about something: porn is a sleight-of-hand. It is not real sex. Where producers edit out the step of rolling on a condom, they also edit out (in most cases) the enemas, the lube, and the removal of socks. They cut out the lost erections and the Viagra. They cut out the lights necessary to ensure that you can see every wrinkle in a performer’s asshole. Porn is an illusion. The risk that performers are taking is not. One person’s fantasy should not trump another’s reality. Honestly, if the presence of a condom—in your porn or in your sex life—can derail your sexual enjoyment then you’re doing something wrong.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2010, 03:22:34 AM »
tl;dr

MtD

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2010, 03:27:23 AM »
I knew you were going to do that.

« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 03:30:03 AM by Miss Philicia »
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2010, 03:34:24 AM »

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2010, 09:03:45 AM »

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2010, 09:11:02 AM »

MtD

Offline mecch

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2010, 09:20:47 AM »
Are we supposed to discuss:

1) The editorial and its arguments?

2) our own position on bareback porn?

1:  Editorial:  the argument is comprehensive.  Also its histrionic, one-sided, makes wrong generalisations.  Its a good enough starting point for 2).  However its not worth time picking apart such a piece for its flaws.

2:  When the production of bareback gay porn was taboo - from the mid to late 80's to the mid to late 90's, I enjoyed my old gay bareback porn even though I knew some stars were dead of AIDS.  Also I never ever barebacked and watching old bareback porn was a fantasy and also kinda like watching silent film - a lost world.

The first gay porn I ever saw was a pretty famous clip of a black guy with a monster fat dick getting a blow job through a glory hole and then full on.  It was like a gutt punch cause then I saw a few more butt plows. BB of course.  It was in a kino in Times Square, must have been 1980 or so. Maybe even a few years after that.

When gay bb porn made its comback it was kind of like that gut punch.  But I had gone through some sad heavy stories due to AIDS and so it was like a double gut punch. There was the sexual fantasy thrill of BB, which I hadn't permitted myself to enjoy since that "lost world".  BUt also, my mind had to deal with the fact that my dick was hard watching it but also my mind was remember the sad AIDS stories I had experienced, and also had to think about the guys doing the porn.

I very very specifically remember sniffing poppers and watching porn alone and this permitted me to "SEE" the reality of the actors doing the porn - not the fantasy they and the producers were creating.  This both turned me on immensely and also brought up the mechanics of the whole thing.  As described in the editorial. These are actors. Are they HIV+?  Was this video produced with full disclosure? Etc etc.

REMEMBER - As soon as BB porn made its comeback, there were plenty of editorials like the one above.  Everyone discussed the ethics of it.

I think it took me about 1 year for all the questions in my head to settle down and then it was just porn. SSR porn or BB porn, whatever.  

Then came the gonzo BB porn and I could see obviously HIV+ guys doing it.  This was too much for me. The craven Treasure Island Media stuff and when that skanky falcon star who became a bb cum slut - it just didn't turn me on.

Then after a few years, I kinda liked the skin heady bb stuff from Europe, and then the "craven" TIM sometimes turned me on, too.

I seroconverted about two years ago and for a few months no porn was exciting.  But recently I watched all the stuff that I used to think - "oh, grizzled pozzies having it off - ick" - and now that Im HIV+ must say some of it turned me on.  

I have a new little interest in saving photos I find occassionally of guys online who are obviouly many years poz and have that "no fat, all muscles visible, all veins popping, and face like a cadaver" look.  I don't find these pictures repulsive at all, like i did a few years ago. I like especially when the guy is all up front about it.  Best if he's between 40-70+.  

I had sex the other day with a hot daddy I've been doing for the 15 years I've been visiting his city.  Hes got to be in his mid 60s now. When I met him, I figured he must be poz. He aways turned me on with his big muscles and weiner.  We always had safesex.  So the other day was the first time I saw him now that I am  HIV+. He's got the body I just described above, to a tee.  I always noticed his lipo face before but was mostly hot about his huge pecker and the force in his body.  Also he was always always charming everytime we met. This time, we did it bareback and after we had a few whiskeys and chatted. I looked very closely for a long time at his skeletal face. I thought for a good moment, wow, this is really a special face to carry around and meet the world with.  I didnt flinch much cause of its connection to HIV and AIDS and all the old fears, party because well hes still around and still has all that power and now I know a lot more about HAART and lipo and so on.   I couldn't stay focused that long on his lipo and his bones and sinews, I kept being drawn back into his overall charm and his human and warm eyes.  So after I had had my good long look, I stopped noticing or flinching.

___________

Thesis - I dont think this controversy will ever go away but the best moral and ethical position is ChiChi LaRues.

Since I am a fan of straight bb porn, very much so, more than most gay porn of any kind, I think gay bb porn should simply have the same STD testing. The industry could do this voluntarily.  Its amazing it hasnt been done already!   It is a workplace.  If I were a worker I would rather risk or get the clap than be having a good risk of HIV everytime I worked.  

Gay bb porn produced under this system of risk "reduction" could have stamp on it.  Consumers who care about such things could have a choice to buy it.  Or they could by SSR porn. Or they could buy gonzo bb porn produced without any risk precautions.  






 
« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 09:26:18 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Jeff G

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2010, 09:23:01 AM »
The bar I worked at was used as the set for a few porn movies . I would be setting up for my afternoon happy hour while they were filming . The last thing I would have to do before I opened the door for the day was check the bar area for condoms and make sure the trash cans in the bathroom had no used enema bottles left about .

Offline mecch

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2010, 09:33:58 AM »
So the moral:  
Sometimes we think about the ethics and morals and consequences and politics of our actions, sometimes we dont.  
Sometimes we think about these questions --  and do it, or buy it, or say it anyway.

Sometimes we do it or buy it but havent even stopped to think - maybe we have repressed, or made the decisions a long time ago and dont even think to reconsider.

Sometimes we just have places we "won't go" things we "won't do" based on our ethics.

If you never "position" yourself - via morals, or ethics, or politics, with responsibilities, obligations or consequences - to other people, about anything, you are a true cowboy and probably anti-social enough to be dangerous, or psychotic or at least best left alone.  



« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 09:35:55 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Dachshund

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2010, 09:37:12 AM »
So the moral: 
Sometimes we think about the ethics and morals and consequences and politics of our actions, sometimes we dont. 
Sometimes we think about these questions --  and do it, or buy it, or say it anyway.

Sometimes we do it or buy it but havent even stopped to think - maybe we have repressed, or made a compromise.

If you never "position" yourself - via morals, or ethics, or politics, with responsibilities, obligations or consequences - to other people, about anything, you are a true cowboy and probably anti-social enough to be dangerous, or psychotic or at least best left alone. 





Oh dear God, you barebacked just like everyone else. How you "positioned" yourself is your business,.

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2010, 09:43:57 AM »
Shouldn't the message be that everyone needs to be using condoms to reduce the transmission of HIV and other STDs? Studios should do what they can to keep their actors safe. Even if the actors are HIV+ I don't think condomless porn is a good idea because it implicitly indicates that if you want to have carefree sex without condoms, just becomes HIV+.

Offline mecch

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2010, 10:34:55 AM »
Oh dear God, you barebacked just like everyone else. How you "positioned" yourself is your business,.

The thread is about bareback porn, our take on it. That's the topic of the editorial - the ethics of bareback porn.

It has nothing to do with your above bitch slap on me.  if you want to continue to be nasty to me, explain why, and do it all by PM. 

Flamebait - boring!
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline kev72

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2010, 11:18:30 AM »
I agree that most of the porn is BB these days compared to a few years ago. When I watch Xtube or Gaytube, I wonder what the hell are these guys doing? but then I say "well no one is forcing them to have BB sex" I would hope in this day and age they know what risks they are taking. I would not partake in unsafe sex now that I know I am poz, but honestly it is a turn-on to watch.

In my opinion, enforcing condom use will not majorly influence what decisions people make.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2010, 11:29:50 AM »
I agree that most of the porn is BB these days compared to a few years ago. When I watch Xtube or Gaytube, I wonder what the hell are these guys doing? but then I say "well no one is forcing them to have BB sex" I would hope in this day and age they know what risks they are taking. I would not partake in unsafe sex now that I know I am poz, but honestly it is a turn-on to watch.

In my opinion, enforcing condom use will not majorly influence what decisions people make.

Odd.  When I have see bareback porn lots looks like 18 year old Slovakian boys from the countryside that are probably paid to do bareback for what is probably normally 4 weeks pay in their country.

Basically it's much worse exploitation than buying sneakers from China.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline kev72

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2010, 11:41:25 AM »
I tend to ignore the foreign twink movies.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2010, 11:52:10 AM »
I have no ethical problem with BB porn . Its consensual sex and people consent to view it .

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2010, 12:15:38 PM »
I have no ethical problem with BB porn . Its consensual sex and people consent to view it .

If there is no problem with people not using condoms on camera then I assume there is no problem with people not using condoms off camera.

If a man wanted to be infected with HIV would it be okay for me to go off my meds, build up my viral load, have unprotected sex with them and charge people money to watch the video of him being infected, complete with bonus footage of him getting a positive HIV test? It is consensual.

Offline mecch

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2010, 12:16:42 PM »
I agree with Miss P.  Personally that kind of boy doesn't thrill me but you also gotta wonder how much exploitation is involved..
There was the famous transmission case a year or two ago that seemed to have shuddered British bareback twink porn production.

I have recently seen porn from azerbaijan - safe sex.  And twink bareback porn from bolivia. I think bolivians and andeans are beautiful but ya gotta wonder about the politics/economics of getting that image to me.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Jeff G

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2010, 12:22:57 PM »
If there is no problem with people not using condoms on camera then I assume there is no problem with people not using condoms off camera.

If a man wanted to be infected with HIV would it be okay for me to go off my meds, build up my viral load, have unprotected sex with them and charge people money to watch the video of him being infected, complete with bonus footage of him getting a positive HIV test? It is consensual.

I was thinking more along the lines of BB porn and not bug chasing fetish films ... If they exist .

Offline komnaes

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2010, 01:29:38 PM »
My collection consists of mostly Japanese porn.. all with mosaic blur covering their cocks so most of the times I cannot tell whether they're doing it au naturale or not. Perhaps all porn should do the same so you can imagine what's going on as you like.

PS - preemptive respond to Philicia, yes, their tools are sometimes so small that one they're inside it will simply disappear so it won't matter much whether it's blurred or not anyway.. ;D
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2010, 01:31:23 PM »
My collection consists of mostly Japanese porn.. all with mosaic blur covering their cocks so most of the times I cannot tell whether they're doing it au naturale or not. Perhaps all porn should do the same so you can imagine what's going on as you like.

PS - preemptive respond to Philicia, yes, their tools are sometimes so small that one they're inside it will simply disappear so it won't matter much whether it's blurred or not anyway.. ;D

Please.  I know you're watching those filthy machofucker clips with the hung Hatian men downloaded freely on torrent sites.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline kev72

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2010, 01:33:24 PM »
LOL.

Offline komnaes

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2010, 01:43:09 PM »
Please.  I know you're watching those filthy machofucker clips with the hung Hatian men downloaded freely on torrent sites.

You're so wrong.. , I HAD a paid membership..

And who uses BT these days? Much better to have a hotfile account and join one of those deeplinking groups in Google. You have some catching up to do Miss P... ;D

Gotta say though some of those old MF clips are HOT but the recent ones really suck so I cut it off. Much better sticking to Japanese porn as they get really creative and even more nasty since they cannot show the real actions.
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline Jeff G

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2010, 01:48:50 PM »
The only time I saw a gay guy upset over porn was when I gave to many shots of wild turkey to a guy before his shoot and he had to watch his new boyfriend get fucked by another guy . He needed consoling LOL .

Offline mecch

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2010, 01:55:36 PM »
And who uses BT these days? Much better to have a hotfile account and join one of those deeplinking groups in Google. You have some catching up to do Miss P

Spill, please.  Hotfile ok. But where what is a deeplinking group???? Many thanks
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Offline leatherman

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2010, 02:13:10 PM »
what bb porn shows it that nothing has changed in hundreds of years of people having sex. Casually people meet and casually they have sex, never worrying about STDs, HIV or pregnancy. It even happens in an industry that should know better. Porn is about sex, so you would think the people that make these films would be informed about all the consequences of their workers having sex, much less the image that they are portraying to the world. Just like regular TV, where no one ever has to pee or poo, in porn no one ever fumbles around putting on a condom. It's just the "magic of movies" if a condom mysteriously appears as the hard action begins.

If there is no problem with people not using condoms on camera then I assume there is no problem with people not using condoms off camera.
that line of reasoning doesn't hold water though. ;) TV and movies are not reality. Regular movies show me images of people using guns to kill other people. Just because that image is shown doesn't change the fact that murder is legally and morally wrong. I see a lot of other images of people committing all sorts of crimes (or just being rude, hateful, and evil to one another), and of course that doesn't give anyone permission to do those same actions off screen. It's just the "magic of movies" that these guys in porn can fuck bb and not catch an STD.

Personally, I could care less in my porn viewing whether it's bb or not, as long as the scene is hot. yes, I have all my old flix of now dead men doing the nasty, just like I have brokeback mtn with dead Ennis. Sometimes it's creepy, but another hit of poppers while I'm whacking off takes care of my reticence. 8)

Just like these forums are so apt to tell the newbies who come on here crying about how they got the bug now, if these "actors" choose to be ignorant in their own profession (and I imagine in their personal off screen fuck lives too) of the risks, well then they've been hoist on their own petard haven't they? If the viewer of BB porn thinks he can go out and do the same without running the risks that have been the subject of MTV PSAs for two decades, well then all those HIV/AIDS prevention messages just aren't working, are they?
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2010, 02:16:24 PM »
jebus mikey, talk about reasoning that doesn't hold water.  Porn involves actual sex, murder in a movie does not.  Try and think next time.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline mecch

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2010, 02:23:41 PM »
One of the questions was that its one thing for a bunch of brit or germans or americans to do bareback porn shoots for 1000 bucks.  Its another if the twink is living in poverty and you come round shaking that same amount.  I don't think its easy to investigate this. Machofucker did some discussion that all its performers know who is HIV+ and who isn't and each performer accepts the risks of the act.  I don't think gays or stupider or less informed in ANY country, actually, so it wouldnt be a question of the big nasty west pulling a fast one on the local idiots.  Just the money incentive.  Like poor people who sell a body part, knowing its a bad choice, awful choice, but needing the cash. Ever see those documentaries??? Ick
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Offline leatherman

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2010, 05:04:36 PM »
jebus mikey, talk about reasoning that doesn't hold water.  Porn involves actual sex, murder in a movie does not.  Try and think next time.
jebus philly :D, movies aren't reality. ::) porn sex is edited to be pretty just like murders on tv are pretty and don't bleed enough. for all you and I know the porn actors have been tested, signed constent forms and are having neg on neg or poz on poz sex. The magic of movies makes those issues a mystery to all of us viewers. Doh. Remember you can't tell who's a pozzie just by looking. ;) The only thing we know is that bb sex (straight or gay, r-rated or x-rated) in the movies doesn't promote safe sex.  ;)

edited to add the emoticons that I know Philly loves so much  :D
« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 05:06:26 PM by leatherman »
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Offline CallMeSid

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2010, 06:40:20 PM »
Once I saw a movie where somebody was driving a car and NOT wearing a seatbelt.

And a friend of a friend swears that he once saw a movie where the characters ATE MEAT on a FRIDAY!

I'm sorry, I find this thread to be a bit, um, ridiculous.

Now if you had embedded a link that would take me to the John Edwards sex tape, I'd be ALL OVER THAT!!!!
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Offline mecch

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2010, 06:49:39 PM »
I think the discussion is as valid today as ever in the past 10-15 years.  


"The Czech documentary ‘Bodies Without A Soul’ shows how much of the Eastern European bareback porn manufactured for European and American markets is made by taking young men who are literally starving and living on the streets and exploiting their poverty by offering them a pittance – sometimes only a bed for the night and enough drugs to fuck – to play Russian Roulette with their lives. Your bareback wank might come at the expense of their lives."
http://www.johannhari.com/2006/10/02/the-disturbing-rise-of-bareback-porn
The disturbing rise of bareback porn
Posted by Johann Hari on 10/02/2006

______________________

http://www.amazon.com/Body-Without-Soul-Wiktor-Grodecki/dp/B00004YKRN
Body Without Soul (1996)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115722/

______________________

Just because the boys in Praque, etc, got their shit together and made their own production companies and kept their own money and became proper stars, doesn't mean that the exploitation has not continued elsewhere.

______________________

Just because some people think its important to discuss the economics and politics of bareback porn does NOT mean we can't deal with it at all, or are asking anyone else to give up their fix.  
« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 06:52:49 PM by mecch »
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Offline buffaloboy

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2010, 06:59:14 PM »
Whenever the topic of bareback sex arises, be it in porn or real life, there's a sense that one must denounce it, whilst furrowing one's brow over its prevalence, and demand that 'something MUST be done' so that no one is exposed to HIV ever again.

But I was never one to tow the party line and I'm not about to start now.

Bareback sex occured long before HIV came on the scene, and will continue long after a cure has wiped it from the face of the earth.  I find it hard to believe that someone working in porn is not aware of the risks, and there's probably an argument to be made for the relentless 'condom only' message, turning raw sex into a fetish, and thus creating an ideal market for the porn industry.

I think it's less to do with the 'ethics of bareback porn' specifically, and more to do with the structural nature of the porn industry  at large, which exploits all who feature in its films.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 07:02:29 PM by buffaloboy »

Offline BlueMoon

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2010, 07:27:38 PM »
I want only one thing from the entertainment industry: Entertainment!

...................VL.....CD4.....%
-----------------------------------------
08/10-- ......<40.....290.....42
05/10-- ......<48.....290.....46
02/10-- ......<48.....481.....44
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03/09-- Added Isentress
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11/08-- ........62.....242.....40
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03/08-- ....5210.....187.....21
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Offline xman

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2010, 08:50:45 PM »
Very tired about this hypocrisy. Who care about actors smoking in movies or stuntmen falling from a car running down the freeway? There's everytime risk envolved. BB sex is nothing else than another risky activity in our life. I don't see the difference.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 08:54:13 PM by xman »
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Offline LordBerners

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2010, 12:07:37 AM »
Though I watch the other kinds of porn (in which condom use is not very common anyway), I have to admit I get no enjoyment from watching the actors use condoms.  When I see a video like that I just close it and look for something else.

Please, just call me Berners.. or Baron.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2010, 02:27:20 AM »
I like bb porn.  I really thought they were probably doing monthly testing, but I suppose that is very naive.  There are 2 guys from here in Louisville who have done bb porn for one of those newer, less-known companies.  I know they are both poz.  I wish I would have been more nosy to ask about them being poz and doing bb sex. 

I've also watched that guy who gets "straight" navy guys from San Diego to usually just jack-off.  I'm sure someone will refresh my memory on the name.   On a few, they've done bb sex with each other.  On some, they do use condoms.  I suppose he must pay them a little more.  They are all usually like 18 and I'm sure very uneducated about HIV or in desperate need of cash and he tells them everyone is safe.  Or, maybe they do know what they are doing. 

If they were doing monthly testing, I don't have a problem. 

Offline fearless

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2010, 02:28:14 AM »
Please.  I know you're watching those filthy machofucker clips with the hung Hatian men downloaded freely on torrent sites.

I watch them, they're hot...
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Offline edfu

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2010, 02:48:00 AM »
Chad Noel, HIV-positive gay-porn performer, dies at age 25:
 
http://gayporngossip.com/?p=1481
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2010, 02:59:01 AM »
Chad Noel, HIV-positive gay-porn performer, dies at age 25:
 
http://gayporngossip.com/?p=1481

If this is true, this goes back to the 19 year-old who says he has AIDS on youtube.  How could a 25 year-old already die of HIV/AIDS?  If he got it doing porn, I would hope he was legal when he started.  If he got it right away at age 18, he was dead within 7 years?  If his death was due to HIV and not something else, then we would need to rethink what was said about the 19 year-old from youtube.  It would definitely say some progress very quickly. 

Offline Cliff

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2010, 03:16:18 AM »
Progression isn't uniform.  Some can and do progress very quickly (especially if certain addiction issues were at play, which was likely given the industry).  However, my first thought on seeing that link wasn't to blame the porn-industry, it was to blame the US healthcare system.  Assuming his death was preventable, (and there's certainly not enough information here to know otherwise), then one possibility is he didn't have proper access to healthcare.  Healthcare should be divorced from your employment status.  I assume most actors in the porn-industry are contract workers, providing them with little (if any) workplace benefits.  

I think dropping that link (with no commentary) into this discussion is unfair.  I can't tell whether he was even infected at his workplace.  There's simply not enough information.

« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 03:20:31 AM by Cliff »

Offline komnaes

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2010, 03:37:23 AM »
If this is true, this goes back to the 19 year-old who says he has AIDS on youtube.  How could a 25 year-old already die of HIV/AIDS?  If he got it doing porn, I would hope he was legal when he started.  If he got it right away at age 18, he was dead within 7 years?  If his death was due to HIV and not something else, then we would need to rethink what was said about the 19 year-old from youtube.  It would definitely say some progress very quickly. 

Not necessarily. From the report:

"The family is awaiting an autopsy report.."

It'd indicate that there's more to this unfortunate story.
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Offline Grasshopper

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #41 on: April 03, 2010, 04:12:33 AM »
Or perhaps like our Etay; feeling healthy and on top of the world, until something struck him down, out of the blue, like a bolt of "ball lightening" ?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 04:16:18 AM by Grasshopper »

Offline jcelvis

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2010, 09:38:50 AM »
I like bb porn.  I really thought they were probably doing monthly testing, but I suppose that is very naive.  There are 2 guys from here in Louisville who have done bb porn for one of those newer, less-known companies.  I know they are both poz.  I wish I would have been more nosy to ask about them being poz and doing bb sex. 

I've also watched that guy who gets "straight" navy guys from San Diego to usually just jack-off.  I'm sure someone will refresh my memory on the name.   On a few, they've done bb sex with each other.  On some, they do use condoms.  I suppose he must pay them a little more.  They are all usually like 18 and I'm sure very uneducated about HIV or in desperate need of cash and he tells them everyone is safe.  Or, maybe they do know what they are doing. 

If they were doing monthly testing, I don't have a problem. 

Generally the less known studios will pay you 200-300 per condom scene and 350-500 per bb scene
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #43 on: April 03, 2010, 09:44:18 AM »
Progression isn't uniform.  Some can and do progress very quickly (especially if certain addiction issues were at play, which was likely given the industry).  However, my first thought on seeing that link wasn't to blame the porn-industry, it was to blame the US healthcare system.  Assuming his death was preventable, (and there's certainly not enough information here to know otherwise), then one possibility is he didn't have proper access to healthcare.  Healthcare should be divorced from your employment status.  I assume most actors in the porn-industry are contract workers, providing them with little (if any) workplace benefits. 

I think dropping that link (with no commentary) into this discussion is unfair.  I can't tell whether he was even infected at his workplace.  There's simply not enough information.



Uh, no -- if you're a poor poz queen living in NYC you still have health care resources up the wazoo.  It's not Texas, as you well know yourself.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #44 on: April 03, 2010, 09:50:12 AM »
Otherwise about the relevance (or not) of edfu's link, if you think nobody has gotten an HIV infection from making BB movies for the sake of your own selfish, hedonistic porn addiction then you really must be on crack.  Let's also put aside the fact that he was some knarly, emaciated twink from San Diego and ponder those poor two-months-past-18th-birthday Albanian boys that arrive in Prague penniless only to swept up by some American pornographer like William Higgins.

"Oh!  But they must test them once monthly!" -- uh, OK sure.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 09:55:51 AM by Miss Philicia »
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Offline Ann

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #45 on: April 03, 2010, 10:30:25 AM »
According to a mate of Chad's who posted (comment #60) on the Queerty article about his death, Chad didn't die of aids-related complications but rather "drug-related complications". Who knows?

I'm sure you all know what it's like when a young gay man dies - more often than not everyone speculates "it must have been aids". I've seen no evidence to the contrary that this isn't what's going on here.

Just sayin'....
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Offline Cliff

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #46 on: April 03, 2010, 10:56:54 AM »
Uh, no -- if you're a poor poz queen living in NYC you still have health care resources up the wazoo.  It's not Texas, as you well know yourself.
I know both NYC and Texas.  Well enough to know that people slip through the cracks in both states. 


Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2010, 10:57:25 AM »
According to a mate of Chad's who posted (comment #60) on the Queerty article about his death, Chad didn't die of aids-related complications but rather "drug-related complications". Who knows?

I'm sure you all know what it's like when a young gay man dies - more often than not everyone speculates "it must have been aids". I've seen no evidence to the contrary that this isn't what's going on here.

Just sayin'....

Like I said, that one particular case and its particulars are irrelevant unless you think not a single 18 year old has gotten infected from making bareback porn.  Does it matter or not whether they actually croak in five years?

Just sayin' (as you say)
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Offline Cliff

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #48 on: April 03, 2010, 10:57:57 AM »
Actually that case is relevant in so much as it was added to this thread, presumably as a testament to someone dying from condom-free pornography.

You're dropping straw man arguments, by pretending someone in this thread has argued that no one has ever been infected with HIV while making pornography.  As far as I can tell, no one has made such a statement in this thread.  And actually there have been widespread reported incidences (in the UK and the US, straight and gay) of HIV infections being traced back to pornography filming.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2010, 11:53:43 AM by Cliff »

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The Ethics of Bareback Porn
« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2010, 10:58:57 AM »
I know both NYC and Texas.  Well enough to know that people slip through the cracks in both states. 



You can slip through the cracks in the UK too, if you choose to do drugs and not go to the doctor and not to take medication.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

 


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