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Author Topic: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform  (Read 13568 times)

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Offline mpositive

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Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« on: March 25, 2010, 12:53:56 PM »
Effective Jan 1, 2011 for HRAs, HSAs and Health FSAs, over-the-counter drugs will no longer be reimbursed without a prescription.  Non-qualified distributions from HSAs will be taxed at 20% (currently 10%).
Ok, so that means, my FSA account will no longer pay for Aspirin, Tylenol and a host of other items.  What a huge bummer...that will cost me an extra few hundred dollars a year.  And 10% more tax on withdrawals from an HSA.  YAY!  ugh!

Individuals with a pre-existing medical condition who have not had insurance coverage for six months or more may be able to enroll in a new federally subsidized insurance program that is to be established within 90 days of enactment and remain until 2014. Premiums for the pool will be established for a standard population and have a 4:1 age band.  Maximum cost-sharing will be limited to $5,950/individual and $11,900/family in 2010.

Ok, so based on this, it appears that the maximum an individual will pay is $496.00 a month.  If I am reading it correctly..

High income earners ($200,000 individual or $250,000 married filing jointly) will see their Medicare Part A (hospital) tax rate on wages increase to 2.35%, effective in 2013.
Not sure this is very fair....not that I fall under this category anymore anyhow.  But I am not a fan of punishing folks because they make more money, as it is, they pay more tax both in actual dollars and percentage of payroll income.

Effective in 2013, reimbursed medical expenses may only be deducted on tax returns if they exceed 10% of adjusted gross income.  This increase is waived for individuals age 65 and older for tax years 2013 through 2016.

Another bummer....

Effective Jan 1, 2013, FSA contributions will be limited to $2500 annually. 
STOP!!!  That's another $500.00 or so dollars a year to an employee....WOWSA!  Ok, I know there are good things in this bill too, but man, I am getting smacked around here.





Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2010, 01:00:03 PM »
That 2.35% income tax on people making more than 200,000.00 a year isn't a 2.35% increase it's a .9% increase up from 1.45% (which they already pay).  Honestly if you make 200,000 a year and you're bitching about being taxed less than 1% of your income you should go to another country where making that 200,000 a year isn't even possible.

Offline LordBerners

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2010, 01:19:35 PM »
High income earners ($200,000 individual or $250,000 married filing jointly) will see their Medicare Part A (hospital) tax rate on wages increase to 2.35%, effective in 2013.
Not sure this is very fair....not that I fall under this category anymore anyhow.  But I am not a fan of punishing folks because they make more money, as it is, they pay more tax both in actual dollars and percentage of payroll income.


Another way of looking at it is this:  income is a privilege, especially very unusual and enormous incomes like $200,000 per annum.  Taxation is best understood as a reduction in privilege - it is the original highly unequal income which is 'unfair'; the taxation makes it more fair.
Please, just call me Berners.. or Baron.

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2010, 01:29:52 PM »
Another way of looking at it is this:  income is a privilege, especially very unusual and enormous incomes like $200,000 per annum.  Taxation is best understood as a reduction in privilege - it is the original highly unequal income which is 'unfair'; the taxation makes it more fair.
and in many cases the tax codes particularly as they pertain to those with an ungodly amount of wealth need to be changed to be more fair -- call me a socialist if that is what seems to fit, but I just don't get how there are those out there with fortunes of $1 billion plus and still getting substantial breaks on their income tax and they are even to collect social security benefits....  I remember a professor telling me that analogy wise most if the income scale was a building it would be the Empire State Building and the majority of people would reside on the first floor -- the wealthiest on the top floor control the majority of the wealth -- that is just too great a disparity and we are seeing the consequences of that disparity now. 

I am always amazed though when people who suffer as a direct result of so many unfair policies that benefit the wealthy stand on the sides of those with the wealth that are benefitting -- all the while they are losing ground -- do they somehow think that if they support those policies that make the rich richer that they will somehow join them someday --- NEWSFLASH:  AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. 

And the tea parties and ways that many of those against Health Care Reform are acting (i.e. violently) are showing the true colors of many.

Sorry - had to vent....  (Breathe Phil, Breath..... ooohsa, ooohsa) :)
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2010, 01:32:38 PM »


Individuals with a pre-existing medical condition who have not had insurance coverage for six months or more may be able to enroll in a new federally subsidized insurance program that is to be established within 90 days of enactment and remain until 2014. Premiums for the pool will be established for a standard population and have a 4:1 age band.  Maximum cost-sharing will be limited to $5,950/individual and $11,900/family in 2010.

Ok, so based on this, it appears that the maximum an individual will pay is $496.00 a month.  If I am reading it correctly..

Well... actuallly...$5,950 is the individual out of pocket maximum on co-pays, deductibles, etc.   The premium rate is not yet established.

High income earners ($200,000 individual or $250,000 married filing jointly) will see their Medicare Part A (hospital) tax rate on wages increase to 2.35%, effective in 2013.
Not sure this is very fair....not that I fall under this category anymore anyhow.  But I am not a fan of punishing folks because they make more money, as it is, they pay more tax both in actual dollars and percentage of payroll income.

As Warren Buffett points out, he pays a lower tax rate than his secretary.  That is mainly because he doesn't pay Social Security taxes once he hits the Social Security taxable wage limit although he does pay Medicare taxes on all his wages.   That's a 6.2% tax rate that he (and his employer) do not pay on wages above $106,800.  By paying an additional .9% it means that the tax gap in favor of the wealthy due to Social Security payments goes down to only 5.3%.  

5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline madbrain

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2010, 01:42:51 PM »
Effective Jan 1, 2011 for HRAs, HSAs and Health FSAs, over-the-counter drugs will no longer be reimbursed without a prescription.  Non-qualified distributions from HSAs will be taxed at 20% (currently 10%).
Ok, so that means, my FSA account will no longer pay for Aspirin, Tylenol and a host of other items.  What a huge bummer...that will cost me an extra few hundred dollars a year.  And 10% more tax on withdrawals from an HSA.  YAY!  ugh!


You can still ask your doc to prescribe those things for you and get reimbursed for them.

Quote
Individuals with a pre-existing medical condition who have not had insurance coverage for six months or more may be able to enroll in a new federally subsidized insurance program that is to be established within 90 days of enactment and remain until 2014. Premiums for the pool will be established for a standard population and have a 4:1 age band.  Maximum cost-sharing will be limited to $5,950/individual and $11,900/family in 2010. [/i][/u]
Ok, so based on this, it appears that the maximum an individual will pay is $496.00 a month.  If I am reading it correctly..

$496 maximum/month in copays, but that's in addition to the premiums, which haven't been established yet.

Quote
High income earners ($200,000 individual or $250,000 married filing jointly) will see their Medicare Part A (hospital) tax rate on wages increase to 2.35%, effective in 2013.
Not sure this is very fair....not that I fall under this category anymore anyhow.  But I am not a fan of punishing folks because they make more money, as it is, they pay more tax both in actual dollars and percentage of payroll income.

I have never fallen into it either but I think it's fair, we have some of the lowest tax rates for developed countries overall, and get the fewest benefits - in particular lack of healthcare. It's a fairly modest tax increase and the benefit is tangible, especially if you later retire early (with lower income, and no longer subject to the tax) and now have access to healthcare that you couldn't previously have access to.
Some of my coworkers with stock options will be hit and are bitching about it - I hope they stay healthy their whole lives. Short-term thinking ...

Quote
Effective in 2013, reimbursed medical expenses may only be deducted on tax returns if they exceed 10% of adjusted gross income.  This increase is waived for individuals age 65 and older for tax years 2013 through 2016.[/u][/i]
Another bummer....

On the other hand, with access to insurance, your expenses should be capped to some smaller amount and thus the tax deduction wouldn't be as valuable. Currently the expenses are deductible only over 7.5% of AGI.

Quote
Effective Jan 1, 2013, FSA contributions will be limited to $2500 annually. 
STOP!!!  That's another $500.00 or so dollars a year to an employee....WOWSA!  Ok, I know there are good things in this bill too, but man, I am getting smacked around here.

Yes, that one is a problem. I have been contributing slightly over that amount the last few years to my HSA. I can see how it would hurt families especially, vs the current $5,000 FSA contribution limit.

Offline mpositive

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2010, 02:44:40 PM »

I think someone hit a really good point though, although still hate to see how much hate out there for folks that make a lot of money.  Personally, I never have, and never will prescribe to the thinking that everyone should make similar amounts and be happy with that.   SS tax should not stop, that I always thought was a little silly.  But otherwise, I am completely against punishing someone for making more money.  Of course, the means at which they make their money should certainly be an issue.

Did not realize that the $496 was for copays and such and not the premiums.  Wow, that is scary, I thought it was a good thing at that number, now it's gonna be tricky.

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2010, 02:48:07 PM »
Someone who makes 200,000 a year still has much more disposable income than someone who makes 30,000 a year. 

Offline mpositive

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2010, 07:30:55 PM »
That is not true at all.  I am not sure how you figure things out.  Then again, I am not sure where you live either. 
If the person making 200k lived like the person making 30k, then your answer would be correct....otherwise, it is seriously flawed.

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2010, 07:33:43 PM »
No individual is taxed more than 49% of their income.  So 200k can never be less than 100k.  My income at 30k was about 25% so you do the math, unless the 200k guy was balling like a rockstar (and spending beyond his means) then yes his 100k is going to go further than my 22.5k post taxes.

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2010, 07:55:59 PM »
With the possible exception of Berners I don't think anyone has advocated class warfare.  And because the American dream is in many ways one of improving one's financial position, its not likely that would sell very well in America -- nor has it ever sold for an extended period.

But to the extent there has been any recent class warfare in America, it was primarily during the Bush Administration and the wealthiest Americans won. 

If you look at the last 50 years there have been increasing returns to education and increasing rewards to the very top performers.  And that has slowly increased economic inequality.  But the Bush years saw the top tax rate drop dramatically, even though the richest 20% were already getting a bigger slice of total wealth.  Under the Bush tax cuts -- especially the cuts on dividends and capital gains taxes which generate so much of the income of the highest income people -- the average tax rate on someone who has a million dollar income is LOWER than the average tax rate for someone who earns the median income.

Economists fight over the details (especially over how much of the Social Security tax you should include) but the pattern is clear.  Economic disparity has widened, while the tax rates paid by the wealthiest individuals declined.  So there is a definite fairness argument.

The usual counterargument is that fairness is all very well but a rising tide lifts all boats, the rich use the money so wisely that they grow the overall economy faster for everyone. Unfortunately, recent history doesn't help this argument.  The only significant period when econmic disparity narrowed in the past 40 years was during the Clinton Administration, when taxes were raised very moderately on the rich, the economy boomed and he left office with the federal budget projected to be in surplus until approximately 2022.  And total wealth (GDP) blossomed for all segments of society even the rich -- just not to the point where they got almost all the gains in GDP (vide Bush).

So, a return to the punitive marginal tax rates of the 50's is probably not needed nor wise.  But some reallocation of tax policy, some modest increase in marginal rates for the wealthiest in income and a return to the prior or modestly increased capital gains rates could generate more prosperity for all Americans, rich and poor.

5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline ATorrez

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2010, 09:33:07 PM »
You all seem to feel like people who make $200,000 a year are not entitled to the money they worked hard for. It's easy to sit around all day and complain that you want some of every one else's money. I don't think that's fair. Why is the person making $200,000 a year any less worthy of their income than I am?

And I don't get this argument that "they don't need it". Says so? And so what? Is everything you own a "need"? Don't you think people might like to save a little bit of money? $200,000 a year is not that much. I grew in a household where the male head of the household was the only one who worked. He made about $500,000 a year and was able to support my entire family. My siblings and I went to private school, we had nice clothes, a nice house, and we never wanted anything. We went on vacation to Puerto Rico and Europe every year to visit our family, we went to Disney World once a year, etc. But you know what? All of that money was EARNED by hard work. My grandfather was never home, he was always away on business, he had a doctorate in nuclear physics. He earned his income.

People who want the government to steal from others and give it to them are just jealous. I thank God we have Republicans in office to defend our country from greedy people.
Piss off a democrat: Take responsibility for your life and your actions.

"When Marxist dictators shoot their way into power in Central America, the San Francisco Democrats don't blame the guerrillas and their Soviet allies. They blame United States policies of 100 years ago. But then they always blame America first." -Jeanne Kirkpatrick

Offline madbrain

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2010, 09:42:17 PM »
No individual is taxed more than 49% of their income.

Not only in income tax, and not as a percentage of total income, but if you count marginal tax rates, both federal and state, social security, medicare, and also account for sales taxes (what are the dollars good for if you don't spend them someday?), social security, and the employer-paid portion of it (it still comes out of the same pool!), it can add to quite a bit more than 49%, and you don't have to make $200k to get there.
It's mostly the middle-class who work for wages that end up getting taxed as those high rates actually.  The rich get to pay lower capital gain taxes, no SS tax, no medicare, possibly no state income tax if they have a residence in a state free of income tax. Warren Buffet famously said that he pays a lower overall tax rate than his secretary. It's a rigged system.

Offline SoSadTooBad

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2010, 12:20:30 AM »
it's definitely a rigged system.  as someone who lives in a high tax city in a high tax state, I can tell you that my marginal tax rate exceeds 49%.  until we send a clear message to washington, albany, scaramento and everywhere else that politicians spend our money without a care, we will only see this increase - not just high income people, but all of us.   a real investment in health care and health care reform is valuable and overdue, but that is not what we just witnessed being passed in washington.  a travesty. 

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2010, 12:54:23 AM »
« Last Edit: March 26, 2010, 12:58:28 AM by Miss Philicia »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2010, 01:14:44 AM »
I "accidently" got a look at my brother's partner's W-2.  He is a doctor and it said he made right at $185,000.  It said he paid like $43,000 in federal tax.  I was good at English and history, but sucked at math.  Isn't that below 30%--at least as percentage of income?  He also gets back decent refunds, so he actually paid in less.


Offline tednlou2

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2010, 01:18:53 AM »


This reminds me of what I've read about the tax rates back in the day.  Many were paying like 70% and I even remember reading how Frank Sinatra was paying around 90%.  I've heard that story over and over--I think during the election Obama's campaign made reference to it.  I guess this is how the U.S. got things done and weren't running debts to China.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2010, 05:07:28 AM »

Rank 6 State Income (per capita) State and local taxes (per capita) Rate
50 Alaska $44,872  $2,871  6.4%
49 Nevada $49,371  $3,245  6.6%
48 Wyoming $53,163  $3,714  7.0%
47 Florida $46,293  $3,441  7.4%
46 New Hampshire $48,033  $3,642  7.6%
45 South Dakota $39,103  $3,079  7.9%
44 Tennessee $38,090  $3,160  8.3%
43 Texas $42,796  $3,580  8.4%
42 Louisiana $39,116  $3,286  8.4%
41 Arizona $38,174  $3,244  8.5%
40 Montana $36,793  $3,158  8.6%
39 New Mexico $36,031  $3,114  8.6%
38 Alabama $36,372  $3,144  8.6%
37 South Carolina $35,419  $3,127  8.8%
36 Mississippi $31,836  $2,834  8.9%
35 Washington $48,574  $4,334  8.9%
34 Colorado $48,300  $4,359  9.0%
33 North Dakota $39,612  $3,637  9.2%
32 Missouri $38,084  $3,508  9.2%
31 Iowa $38,636  $3,589  9.3%
30 Illinois $46,693  $4,346  9.3%
29 West Virginia $32,145  $3,000  9.3%
28 Indiana $37,279  $3,502  9.4%
27 Michigan $39,273  $3,694  9.4%
26 Oregon $39,444  $3,719  9.4%
25 Kentucky $34,339  $3,243  9.4%
24 Delaware $44,889  $4,253  9.5%
23 Massachusetts $56,661  $5,377  9.5%
22 Utah $35,971  $3,446  9.6%
21 Kansas $40,784  $3,911  9.6%
20 North Carolina $37,508  $3,663  9.8%
19 Oklahoma $38,415  $3,761  9.8%
18 Virginia $47,666  $4,669  9.8%
17 Nebraska $40,499  $3,983  9.8%
16 Georgia $37,850  $3,735  9.9%
15 Maine $38,309  $3,835  10.0%
14 Arkansas $33,395  $3,351  10.0%
13 Idaho $36,492  $3,670  10.1%
12 Minnesota $46,106  $4,688  10.2%
11 Pennsylvania $43,796  $4,463  10.2%
10 Rhode Island $44,463  $4,533  10.2%
9 Wisconsin $40,953  $4,194  10.2%
8 Vermont $42,626  $4,410  10.3%
8 District of Columbia $70,730  $7,308  10.3%
7 Ohio $38,925  $4,049  10.4%
6 California $47,706  $5,028  10.5%
5 Hawaii $46,512  $4,920  10.6%
4 Maryland $52,709  $5,669  10.8%
3 Connecticut $63,160  $7,007  11.1%
2 New York $55,032  $6,419  11.7%
1 New Jersey $56,116  $6,610  11.8%

Federal Tax


Then you have city taxes on top of those.

Offline ATorrez

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2010, 09:40:52 AM »
I guess this is how the U.S. got things done and weren't running debts to China.

The USA is hardly the only country in debt. Most European countries take atleast twice what we take in taxes and they still are in debt. The USA was not the only country hurt during the recession. We may have more debt than other countries, but we have, unfortunately, been fighting a war that has been mostly pointless.

I just think it's funny, though that people who don't work think their opinion counts when it comes to taxing others.
Piss off a democrat: Take responsibility for your life and your actions.

"When Marxist dictators shoot their way into power in Central America, the San Francisco Democrats don't blame the guerrillas and their Soviet allies. They blame United States policies of 100 years ago. But then they always blame America first." -Jeanne Kirkpatrick

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2010, 09:47:56 AM »

I just think it's funny, though that people who don't work think their opinion counts when it comes to taxing others.
[/quote]



Many of us who don't work now are disabled but have paid taxes in the past . Are you suggesting our opinions do not count ?

Offline ATorrez

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2010, 10:02:37 AM »
Yes, that is what I am saying. People always seem to want some of what everyone else has and when they don't get it they accuse the person who has of being greedy, never realising that they are guilty of what they are accusing others of.

I have said before to my colleagues that I don't believe people who don't work should be able to vote, with the exception of those who are retired or those who have lost their job recently, but had been working consistently before. Your vote may end up dictating how my tax money is spent, why? I put in over 60 hours of week at work, when I usually don't even feel like putting in 1. I go to work because I need money to survive. I have countless times before about quitting work and getting on disability, but I've chosen to keep working. Every dollar I earn belongs to me and I have no one to thank for it but myself.
Piss off a democrat: Take responsibility for your life and your actions.

"When Marxist dictators shoot their way into power in Central America, the San Francisco Democrats don't blame the guerrillas and their Soviet allies. They blame United States policies of 100 years ago. But then they always blame America first." -Jeanne Kirkpatrick

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2010, 10:05:42 AM »
 Wow , such a hardworker and humble to boot .

Offline ATorrez

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2010, 10:14:29 AM »
I don't need to be humble. Everything I have I've earned. The government doesn't give me any subsidies, I go out and work for what I have.

Maybe I am a little biased. I have a family member on disability, but there is nothing wrong with her. She worked for years and years and years and then moved to another state without finding another job. When she couldn't find one after a few years, she got depressed and then got on disability. She has been on disability now for 5 years and she has not looked for a job since. She brags about how she gets all of this stuff from the money she gets. She has an Iphone, with all the bells and whistles, top of the line computers, exotic birds and snakes, and a whole lot more. She sits around all day eating ice cream and whatever else she eats, and then calls my house to complain about how Republicans are ruining the country and if only wealthy people paid more taxes everything would be better for her.

To me, that is what most people on disability are like.
Piss off a democrat: Take responsibility for your life and your actions.

"When Marxist dictators shoot their way into power in Central America, the San Francisco Democrats don't blame the guerrillas and their Soviet allies. They blame United States policies of 100 years ago. But then they always blame America first." -Jeanne Kirkpatrick

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2010, 10:19:08 AM »
I'm smelling bs.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2010, 10:19:51 AM »
Yes, that is what I am saying. People always seem to want some of what everyone else has and when they don't get it they accuse the person who has of being greedy, never realising that they are guilty of what they are accusing others of.

I have said before to my colleagues that I don't believe people who don't work should be able to vote, with the exception of those who are retired or those who have lost their job recently, but had been working consistently before. Your vote may end up dictating how my tax money is spent, why? I put in over 60 hours of week at work, when I usually don't even feel like putting in 1. I go to work because I need money to survive. I have countless times before about quitting work and getting on disability, but I've chosen to keep working. Every dollar I earn belongs to me and I have no one to thank for it but myself.

You seem to be missing a couple of points here:

1) Many people who work and make far more money than you do think it is unfair that those who earn LESS than they do pay a HIGHER percentage of income in taxes.  (Unless of course you are Bill Gates in disguise, I think it is safe to say that Warren Buffet earns more than you do.)

2) Republicans do NOT represent the monolithic views of people who would be subject to this tax.  In fact  people who earn over $200,000 per year supported Obama by a slight margin in the 2008 elections.  The income group that tilted most toward McCain was those earning about $100,000 and they were about 50/50.

A

5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2010, 10:21:29 AM »
I'm smelling bs.


I agree ... He is here to stir the pot I think .

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2010, 10:21:57 AM »
I'm smelling bs.

I'm smelling family disfunction.

First we hear about his lovely life as what I believe he would describe (technicallly speaking, of course  ;)) as his grandfather's bitch.

Now the ice cream fetish.
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2010, 10:27:40 AM »

To me, that is what most people on disability are like.

You should report your sister to the authorities, instead of using your very slim anecdotal evidence to paint people with disabilities with such a broad brush. Give me her name. I'll report her, her birds and her snakes.

Offline ATorrez

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2010, 10:37:46 AM »
I'm smelling bs.

what's bs? That's I work? Why is the idea of someone working so hard to believe?
Piss off a democrat: Take responsibility for your life and your actions.

"When Marxist dictators shoot their way into power in Central America, the San Francisco Democrats don't blame the guerrillas and their Soviet allies. They blame United States policies of 100 years ago. But then they always blame America first." -Jeanne Kirkpatrick

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2010, 10:39:41 AM »
To me, that is what most people on disability are like.
Really? I don't know anyone that enjoys being on disability. Where is the enjoyment?

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2010, 10:41:01 AM »
I grew in a household where the male head of the household was the only one who worked. He made about $500,000 a year and was able to support my entire family. My siblings and I went to private school, we had nice clothes, a nice house, and we never wanted anything. We went on vacation to Puerto Rico and Europe every year to visit our family, we went to Disney World once a year, etc.

I have a family member on disability, but there is nothing wrong with her. She brags about how she gets all of this stuff from the money she gets. She has an Iphone, with all the bells and whistles, top of the line computers, exotic birds and snakes, and a whole lot more. She sits around all day eating ice cream and whatever else she eats, and then calls my house to complain about how Republicans are ruining the country and if only wealthy people paid more taxes everything would be better for her.

To me, that is what most people on disability are like.


::yawn::

the fetid aroma of your BS is overwhelming.

"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline ATorrez

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2010, 10:41:08 AM »
Boy, my comments about not working must have really struck a nerve. It makes me so angry, I think I'll go do some "tina", take 40 loads up my rear, and the philosophise to my meth head friends about how horrible it is that wealthy people don't pay more taxes to help me support my meth habit.
Piss off a democrat: Take responsibility for your life and your actions.

"When Marxist dictators shoot their way into power in Central America, the San Francisco Democrats don't blame the guerrillas and their Soviet allies. They blame United States policies of 100 years ago. But then they always blame America first." -Jeanne Kirkpatrick

Offline ATorrez

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2010, 10:42:14 AM »

::yawn::

the fetid aroma of your BS is overwhelming.



Sorry, what does my growing up wealthy, which was years ago, have to do with a relative of mine being on disability? I don't see the connection.
Piss off a democrat: Take responsibility for your life and your actions.

"When Marxist dictators shoot their way into power in Central America, the San Francisco Democrats don't blame the guerrillas and their Soviet allies. They blame United States policies of 100 years ago. But then they always blame America first." -Jeanne Kirkpatrick

Offline ATorrez

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2010, 10:43:50 AM »
Really? I don't know anyone that enjoys being on disability. Where is the enjoyment?

You get to sit around and soak up funds, while complaining about how those funding your lifestyle aren't paying enough. That sounds like a lifestyle to me.
Piss off a democrat: Take responsibility for your life and your actions.

"When Marxist dictators shoot their way into power in Central America, the San Francisco Democrats don't blame the guerrillas and their Soviet allies. They blame United States policies of 100 years ago. But then they always blame America first." -Jeanne Kirkpatrick

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2010, 10:44:44 AM »
Boy, my comments about not working must have really struck a nerve. It makes me so angry, I think I'll go do some "tina", take 40 loads up my rear, and the philosophise to my meth head friends about how horrible it is that wealthy people don't pay more taxes to help me support my meth habit.

fascinating analysis
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2010, 10:48:27 AM »
Boy, my comments about not working must have really struck a nerve. It makes me so angry, I think I'll go do some "tina", take 40 loads up my rear, and the philosophise to my meth head friends about how horrible it is that wealthy people don't pay more taxes to help me support my meth habit.

Honey, you're here. It's obvious you've already taken a few up the pooper.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2010, 10:48:50 AM »
How old are you ATorrez? Do you have an incureable OI to go along with your HIV? When were you infected and how long have you been infected?

Offline ATorrez

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2010, 10:51:40 AM »


.... says wealthy people need to pay more taxes.
Piss off a democrat: Take responsibility for your life and your actions.

"When Marxist dictators shoot their way into power in Central America, the San Francisco Democrats don't blame the guerrillas and their Soviet allies. They blame United States policies of 100 years ago. But then they always blame America first." -Jeanne Kirkpatrick

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2010, 10:52:47 AM »


.... says wealthy people need to pay more taxes.

Tell your sister to put down the pipe.

Offline ATorrez

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2010, 10:53:31 AM »
Honey, you're here. It's obvious you've already taken a few up the pooper.

.... okay, and? The point is I have been proactive in bettering my life. I don't sit around waiting for money to come to me in the mail, money that I haven't earned.
Piss off a democrat: Take responsibility for your life and your actions.

"When Marxist dictators shoot their way into power in Central America, the San Francisco Democrats don't blame the guerrillas and their Soviet allies. They blame United States policies of 100 years ago. But then they always blame America first." -Jeanne Kirkpatrick

Offline ATorrez

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2010, 10:54:03 AM »
Tell your sister to put down the pipe.

I'll be sure to. :-)
Piss off a democrat: Take responsibility for your life and your actions.

"When Marxist dictators shoot their way into power in Central America, the San Francisco Democrats don't blame the guerrillas and their Soviet allies. They blame United States policies of 100 years ago. But then they always blame America first." -Jeanne Kirkpatrick

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2010, 10:57:47 AM »
Honey, you're here. It's obvious you've already taken a few up the pooper.

No Doxie, you got it all wrong.  Miss Ashley Torres of Catalan descent (her family's fortune must be old money from the house of GaudŪ) would never mix with such characters or do such sinful things.  I'm surprised that she still calls the meth addict, ice cream-fed, snake collector her sister.  Quelle horreur!
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2010, 10:59:00 AM »
How old are you ATorrez? Do you have an incureable OI to go along with your HIV? When were you infected and how long have you been infected?
I'll ask you again. How old are you ATorrez? Do you have an incureable OI to go along with your HIV? When were you infected and how long have you been infected?

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2010, 10:59:25 AM »
Someone here is obviously high as a kite and smoking a crack pipe, but they're in denial and projecting.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2010, 11:00:07 AM »
.... okay, and? The point is I have been proactive in bettering my life. I don't sit around waiting for money to come to me in the mail, money that I haven't earned.

Okay, and you should have known better and then you could have a somewhat more legitmate argument. Unless you pay privately your expensive healthcare costs are passed on to others. Smart guys like you would have used protection before sitting on a diseased dick.

Offline ATorrez

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #45 on: March 26, 2010, 11:03:30 AM »
Someone here is obviously high as a kite and smoking a crack pipe, but they're in denial and projecting.

I didn't know people high on crack were capable of putting together a thought. You must know from personal experience.
Piss off a democrat: Take responsibility for your life and your actions.

"When Marxist dictators shoot their way into power in Central America, the San Francisco Democrats don't blame the guerrillas and their Soviet allies. They blame United States policies of 100 years ago. But then they always blame America first." -Jeanne Kirkpatrick

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2010, 11:07:29 AM »
Am I the only person in the United States who doesn't wig out about paying taxes? I also work 50-60 hours per week but I choose to do that, as you do, ATorrez. I know that part of my working pays to teach kids that I don't have, pay for wars I don't agree with, and help people who can't work. That is what being part of a society is about and I don't expect a trophy. Part of my journey with HIV has been appreciating that I can work. I know from my experience, and particularly my partners experience, that it can all go away tomorrow.

If your sister is stealing from the system then you should report her. Not everyone who is on disability is stealing.

Offline ATorrez

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2010, 11:12:05 AM »
LOL. It's my aunt, not my sister. My sister is not even 18 yet.

GSO,

The point I was saying, though, is that people who don't work should not have a say in where others tax dollars go. I don't mind my tax dollars going to education, police force, or other essential services. What I do mind, is people who do not work and soak up money they didn't earn, saying that THEY think I should pay more taxes to help them fund their lifestyle choice.

I have more respect for the person who gets out of bed and goes to work at McDonalds for $7.25 an hour, because atleast the money earned is his.
Piss off a democrat: Take responsibility for your life and your actions.

"When Marxist dictators shoot their way into power in Central America, the San Francisco Democrats don't blame the guerrillas and their Soviet allies. They blame United States policies of 100 years ago. But then they always blame America first." -Jeanne Kirkpatrick

Offline Moffie65

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2010, 11:14:30 AM »
A Torres,

My judgement; you are a sad and very dangerous person.  Dogma is your dogma, and the things you say about many of us who have been in the fight for better drugs, better treatment, insurance, respect and help for HIV+s over the years is astounding.  It makes me sad that I really gave a shit for hateful people like you.

No I can't work, do I miss it? Of course.  I so very much wish I could work again, and yes, I really miss the money, but does that keep me from living?  NO.  Oh how I wish I had waited to get HIV until is had become a CHRONIC MANAGEABE FUCKING DISEASE but that wasn't in the cards, and my HIV has been dibilitating, miserable, introduced me to death and pretty much fucked up the end of my life.  Then I come to an HIV/AIDS support site, and I see some hateful person like you, spouting your vitriol for those of us who have no choice, or ability to really be productive members of society, and you rub that fact into our emotional and mental wounds; with the joy and satisfaction of a child.  I'm out.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Some interesting facts on the Health Care Reform
« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2010, 11:20:36 AM »
So you're making some assumptions here that with some of us aren't really valid.

First, some people who have paid taxes for a large majority of their adult life are no longer able to work not because they do not want to, but because they cannot for whatever reason.

Second, you may become one of those people, but you will still have a say in how government is run

Third, the problem with healthcare isn't that people who can't work don't have it.  The problem is that people who do work but don't make enough money can't afford it.  There's also the fact that you (yes you) would be turned down for every health insurance you attempted to get because you have a pre-existing condition of being HIV+.  This bill allows those of us with a pre-existing medical condition to actually acquire healthcare, because the practices of the industry were unfair.

So instead of attempting to work up an ad hominem argument against people who don't or cannot work (of which I was until recently one) you should be focusing on the fact that this legislation is going to keep you from being completely unable to acquire the healthcare that you so desperately need.  I'm assuming you are not on Ryan White or ADAP since you are so viciously attacking those of us who require federal aid?  Those two funds are pulled from tax dollars if you weren't aware.

 


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