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Author Topic: $1 A Day For Antiretrovirals In Africa ????  (Read 7382 times)

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Offline Lwood

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$1 A Day For Antiretrovirals In Africa ????
« on: June 01, 2006, 09:47:10 PM »

       
 
On Wednesday I saw an interview on CNN with Matt Damon, who recently went to Africa and is now working to help those with AIDS & HIV in that part of the world.. I believe in association with 'ONE.Org' In the course of the interview he mentioned that 'Anti Retroviral Drugs only cost about a dollar a day' and have given many people renewed health and hope for a future...

A Dollar a Day? just which combo is this ?? I'm not one to give a celebrity's word on ANY subject much weight but it was mentioned several times both by Damon And the interviewer.. Is this something that Drug companies are doing at cost ( hard to believe) or is this something other than the HAART therapy that we're familiar with in the US and Elsewhere? or did biscuit face just get his facts wrong ?

My first thought was "A dollar A day ? whats that combo ? Some Leftover AZT and two Crackerjacks?" Just wondering...

*This is copied from my original post in the old forums,
"Fortunately, I Keep My T Cells Numbered For Just Such An Emergency"
  -Either Foghorn Leghorn or Johnny Cash

Offline Duude

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Re: $1 A Day For Antiretrovirals In Africa ????
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2006, 10:01:30 PM »
Lwood,
     Starbucks costs more than a dollar a day!  Sustiva and Truvada are like $47 a day here.  Do you think he was just acting when he said that or was this a serious role for him?  LOL. 
Duuude

Offline DingoBoi

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Re: $1 A Day For Antiretrovirals In Africa ????
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2006, 10:09:47 PM »
the discounts provided to 3rd world countries may make it realistically a $1 per day.

however, these are at production cost or below..... it is not what anybody in the US pays for the exact same meds.

the pharma charges us more to subsidize them.... I won't draw any conclusions about this as it would make me seem a very mean and evil person.

But I can comment on starvation there: .... reach down and grab a handfull.. and what do you have?   sand.... what's it gonna be a hundred years from now?   SAND!   Move to where the  food grows.

0000


Ok, I know that's overly simplistic but when people view these stories by famous people... and think.. oh, aids drugs are only a dollar a day.. well.. that isn't in this  country.

« Last Edit: June 02, 2006, 07:02:40 AM by DingoBoi »

Offline Lwood

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Re: $1 A Day For Antiretrovirals In Africa ????
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2006, 10:54:30 PM »
Gee, and I thought I was the only one that was a Sam Kinnison Fan....
" Get your Kids, Get Your Shit, We'll Make One Trip, We'll Take you To Where The Food IS !!!! "

I wonder if ADAP is aware of this little .99cent special? They could save $1,970.00 a month on just me. :o
"Fortunately, I Keep My T Cells Numbered For Just Such An Emergency"
  -Either Foghorn Leghorn or Johnny Cash

Offline fearless

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Re: $1 A Day For Antiretrovirals In Africa ????
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2006, 11:25:58 PM »
pull ya head in Dingo,

pharma doesn't charge you more to subsidize meds in Africa. Americans pay for their meds what the market will absorb.
meds in Africa, for those that can afford them (even if they are $1 a day), are likely to be generics made cheaply in India and the like under the DOHA declaration or funded through international AID programs or be azt monotherapy or the like rather than the whizzbang pills you have access to

And if you believe Africa is all desert and sand then perhaps you should educate yourself a little more about Africa. And, people are just not free to 'move to where the f...ing food grows' as you suggest.

Don't be so insulting and degrading to these people who just happen to not be as fortunate as youreslf simply because of where they live.

Be grateful for what you have.

http://www.one.org/

Steve
« Last Edit: June 01, 2006, 11:28:34 PM by fearless »
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline DingoBoi

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Re: $1 A Day For Antiretrovirals In Africa ????
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2006, 11:36:16 PM »
sand is sand.

you know what it's going to be 100 years from now?   SAND!

It might be overly simplistic to you, but MOVE TO WHERE THE  FOOD GROWS.

and to make a point, YES, pharma DOES adjust the prices of meds based up other 'losses'... which africa is for them.

Or maybe you haven't heard of the huge price increases of a number of drugs.


You are right, I don't know africa... and don't believe it's all sand and desert... but point still noted.. MOVE TO WHERE THE FOOD GROWS..... it's not that hard... it's not like you have a $300k house to take care of .... you basically have a shack.

well, move and build a damn new shack.

You might think I'm insulting and degrading, but the sign of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

virtually no food grows there... staying there and expecting different results is stupid.

AGAIN... move to where the  food actually grows.



« Last Edit: June 02, 2006, 05:48:16 AM by DingoBoi »

Offline fearless

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Re: $1 A Day For Antiretrovirals In Africa ????
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2006, 12:07:12 AM »
And just where are they going to move to exactly? America won't take them, Australia won't take them, Europe won't take them.

The price of meds in the US were always high, long before people in Africa were getting them for '$1 a day' or whatever the price is. Before this people in Africa were simply not getting the medicines, as many of them still are not. The price has not been increased to cover any loss as there was no market for them beforehand and hence no loss. The reason the price of meds is high in the US is solely because that is what the market in the US will pay for them. Don't believe the internal US propaganda that you guys pay more for your meds in order to subsidise the rest of the world. It's rubbish.
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline anniebc

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Re: $1 A Day For Antiretrovirals In Africa ????
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2006, 01:07:11 AM »
 Why is the AIDS epidemic raging out of control in Africa and other undeveloped countries? .

The answer is so basic...there is not just not enough money to fight the disease, while the western world donates large amounts of monies towards education, testing and counseling and I know these measures have helped us to better understand what is going on with HIV...but..Unfortunately, for those living in Sub-Sahara Africa, the availability of these important prevention techniques are rare. Without HIV education, Africans continue to be in the dark about how they can change behaviors to halt the spread of the disease.

As far as only costing a $1 a day..does it really matter when you have someone like, South African President Thabo Mbeki denouncing HIV as the cause of AIDS, saying that nothing has been proven that links the two, I mean this man is representative of a growing number of people that feel HIV drugs themselves may be the cause of AIDS for Gods sake,this only makes it more difficult to educate the general population on the importance of medicines in fighting HIV and AIDS...if they were getting them for 10 cents a day would it make any difference?

Moving them to where the food is no answer to anything, these poor people are uneducated, where they live and their way of life is all they know..feeding them will fill their bellies but it won't stop them from dying of AIDS...just my 2 cents worth.

Hugs to all
Jan :-*


« Last Edit: June 02, 2006, 01:09:03 AM by anniebc »
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline gerry

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Re: $1 A Day For Antiretrovirals In Africa ????
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2006, 02:33:10 AM »
The Clinton foundation was able to reduce the cost of basic HAART for subsaharan African countries to as low as $0.38 a day by securing deals with generic drug companies from India.  I believe this is mainly nevirapine, D4T, 3TC (and AZT?).  So brand name drug makers in the US and Europe have nothing to do with supplying these medications; i.e., they are not producing these drugs and giving them away at or below cost.  There are some of them who are offering brand name products that don't have generics at greatly discounted prices to African countries, but even those prices are still unaffordable.

http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports/rep_index.cfm?DR_ID=23059
« Last Edit: June 02, 2006, 10:31:38 AM by gerry »

Offline gerry

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Re: $1 A Day For Antiretrovirals In Africa ????
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2006, 02:49:20 AM »
Dingo:

Quote
and to make a point, YES, pharma DOES adjust the prices of meds based up other 'losses'... which africa is for them.

Or maybe you haven't heard of the huge price increases of a number of drugs.

This is an inaccurate statement to say the least.  When drug companies price their brand name products, they project revenues mainly from areas where they CAN market the products.  In most situations for new drugs, and particularly true for HIV drugs, the poorest nations in the world are not even factored into the equation because the markets for their drugs do not even exist here.  So there is really no "loss" in these areas if they never intended to "sell" the drugs there to begin with.   The prices of HIV meds are so high because the revenues have to be derived from a very small segment of the HIV-infected global population who are located in countries that have monies to pay for these.  Drug companies are in the business of making money, so their products get sold in areas where markets exist.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: $1 A Day For Antiretrovirals In Africa ????
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2006, 03:00:34 AM »
Doesn't really matter if it's a dollar a day or not. Most of the people that need the medication don't have the money to begin with.

Offline Cliff

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Re: $1 A Day For Antiretrovirals In Africa ????
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2006, 05:47:16 AM »
1.  I completely agree with Gerry and Lil Steve.  It is very inaccurate to say that Americans are subsidizing the cost of treating people in the Africa (and let's just say treating some of the people in Africa, since most people still don't have access to meds).  Even if Africa paid for meds, at a high enough cost to allow drug companies to earn a profit there, that would not impact the prices we pay in the US. 

As several people have already pointed out, drug companies (and companies in general) try to maximize the profit margins they can earn in each region they sell their product.  Even if the rest of the world paid higher prices, companies would not lower prices in the US, (because the price we pay hasn't nothing to do with the price people pay elsewhere).  Companies price their products by trying to determine what's the maximum amount you can charge in a market, given the economics of that market, along with the pricing points of your competitors.

And as Steve said, the price paid in the US was just as high before anyone outside of the wealthy nations had access to meds, so clearly our costs have nothing do to with how little other poorer nations are paying.

2.  Why would anyone be upset that developing nations (and not just those in Africa) are getting lower cost meds?  I'm actually at a loss for how anyone could think lower prices paid by 3rd world countries is a bad thing.

3.  Not all of Africa is a desert (i.e., the stupid/ignorant/insensitive sand comment).  There are plenty of maps around on the internet, check one out cause you clearly have no clue where the desert land in Africa is.  It's called Sahara.  Then check out where most people who have HIV live....the region is called sub-saharan regionMeaning THESE COUNTRIES ARE NOT IN THE DESERT, SO THERE IS NO SAND.

4.  People in Africa aren't starving.  Only certain countries are, at times, impacted by severe drought and famine, (primarily isolated to small pockets on the East Coast, Ethiopia for example).  Which actually has comparatively low rates of HIV.  So what in the world does food have to do with this discussion?

And famines aren't just about not growing food in sand.  Most famines are the results of wars and regional conflicts, which along with weather patterns, prevent people from farming land, which results in starving (i.e., Ethiopia's constant war with its neighbor, Eritrea).

Unless there is massive famine going on, that is impacting the entire continent of Africa, and only Americans know about it, I'm not sure why food and HIV drugs are being connected in this thread.

5.  Even if people are starving, they can't just pick up and move to another country/region.  How in the hell do you just pick up and move to another country when you're poor and starving?  Governments don't just let people walk through their borders.  And if you're starving, (which isn't the problem in the first place), do you really have the energy to walk thousands of miles to reach another region?  Or should they first purchase a car (and lots of gas), and then drive to another country, (which I imagine would be the next clueless recommendation)?

6.  Aren't you receiving some kind of assistance, (i.e., housing that you previously complained about because supposedly gay white boys wouldn't be safe there)?  How would you like it if someone told you that you should get off your lazy ass and get a real job and pay your own damn bills instead of looking for hand-outs from others, (which effectively is the same ignorant, insensitive comment you're saying to people in Africa)?

Cliff

(Who now realizes why people around the world say Americans are dumb.)
« Last Edit: June 02, 2006, 06:51:02 AM by Cliff »

Offline manchesteruk

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Re: $1 A Day For Antiretrovirals In Africa ????
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2006, 06:23:33 AM »

It might be overly simplistic to you, but MOVE TO WHERE THE  FOOD GROWS.

 it's not like you have a $300k house to take care of .... you basically have a shack.

well, move and build a damn new shack.

You might think I'm insulting and degrading, but the sign of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

virtually no food grows there... staying there and expecting different results is stupid.

AGAIN... move to where the  food actually grows.



I am ABSOLUTELY STUNNED that in this day and age people still have these opinions.  I'll leave this thread now before I say something i'll regret.
Diagnosed 11/05

"Life is too important to be taken seriously" Oscar Wilde

Offline DingoBoi

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Re: $1 A Day For Antiretrovirals In Africa ????
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2006, 06:53:13 AM »
ok... my apologies.... that was a take from one of sam kinnison's act which really didn't belong in this thread or this forum and was inappropriate.

... and yes, it , and I, am ignorant and really should shut up about matters I don't understand in the least.

I have seemingly sidetracked this discussion.  so please now ignore my comments and continue with the valid discussion... meanwhile... i'll actually try to become better educated on this matter, as cliff pointed out, I don't understand the core problems.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2006, 07:12:10 AM by DingoBoi »

Offline gerry

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Re: $1 A Day For Antiretrovirals In Africa ????
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2006, 10:37:16 AM »
Going back to the original post about a-dollar-a-day antiretroviral drugs, there are a host of other problems that are hampering AIDS treatment in the poorest African countries beyond the price of antiretroviral meds alone.  There is very little or no infrastructure existing to deliver these treatments.  I recall one of the people at the CNN Summit on AIDS (I believe it was the CEO of Pfizer, which was quite ironic) say that if a glass of clean water could cure AIDS, half of the people affected in Subsaharan Africa would still not receive it. 

Offline MitchMiller

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Re: $1 A Day For Antiretrovirals In Africa ????
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2006, 09:51:49 PM »
I believe we actually do indirectly subsidize medical research for the rest of the world based on the prices paid for HIV meds in the first world, especially the US... but SO WHAT!  We've been taking no prisoners in the game of World Monopoly for 200 years... with American based corporations exploiting the third world to prop up our lavish lifestyle.  Ask the people of Nigeria how much oil has been pumped out the ground and how much $$$ the average Nigerian has seen.  Heck the oil co.'s even have the gaul to hire foreign labor.   Ask the Iraqies how Sadam Hussein came to power.  And why were we funneling weapons to both Iraq and Iran ... because we enjoyed seeing young Iranians being used as human mine sweepers?  Ask the Chileans how Pinochet came to power after the US economically destroyed the Allende gov't.... it just goes on and on and on.
The least those of us in first world countries can do is provide funds, one way or the other, that are required to continue research into treatments that can end this pandemic.   ... and besides... think about what a fertile recruiting ground a world full of HIV+ people with no hope would be for terrorist groups looking for suicide bombers.... and like it or not, that's a big reason why funds are now finally flowing to the third world to fight AIDS.  The US has no friends, just interests.

Offline newt

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Re: $1 A Day For Antiretrovirals In Africa ????
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2006, 10:59:54 PM »
Dog the Dingo

If I said "Orlando is a dum town" I would be jumped on.  If I said "America is dumb continent" ditto.

I have been to Africa many times, and it is the greenest, most verdant, most fertile place on Earth, even been to a fag club in Maputo, Mozambique and the people were friendly (but then for $20 in Maputo everyone is friendly) n the music was cool n there were natchos.  Dogs in Florida need to get to the coast more and look at the Atlantic (where the slaves came over). 

Now I know how Bush gets away with a dumb-ass foregin policy.

There's lots of sand in th US of A and if people keep driving them 4x4s there's gonna be more.

There's even Kentucky n Macdonalds in Africa (sadly).  N Coca Cola everywhere (saving grace after a long day's walking)

- matt "pissed, dont even go there" the newt

(Now playin - Nick Buckley : Lilac Wine)
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline DingoBoi

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Re: $1 A Day For Antiretrovirals In Africa ????
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2006, 11:26:13 PM »
Hey, ok... i'll take my lumps.   I am ignorant on many issues.   But not irredeemable.  Many people, like myself, are completely ignorant of the real world as it really is.   I just finished watching the whole PBS special online and at least it gives me an inkling of what is really going on.  I certainly don't claim to be smarter from it, but perhaps a smidge more informed.. maybe just a smidge. 

At least I got a good whoopin' when deserved so I might pull my 'head out of my ass' as so eloquently, and accurately, was put.


Offline Dachshund

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Re: $1 A Day For Antiretrovirals In Africa ????
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2006, 11:43:18 PM »
Good boy Dingo...was that the Frontline special? If it was I think that was a very good place to start. If that didn't make you think...nothing will.

I knew you were not an "Ugly American". You took your licking and came back ticking.I admire someone who admits when they are wrong...and don't you hate it when people stereotype....people of color,the poor,women,gays,people with HIV...you know...us.

Next time you might not want to use Sam Kennison for a geography lesson.

Peace,
Hal ;)

Offline DingoBoi

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Re: $1 A Day For Antiretrovirals In Africa ????
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2006, 11:56:34 PM »
Quote
Next time you might not want to use Sam Kennison for a geography lesson.

that's good advice. :) and yes, it was the frontline special.   Long, but interesting.

Offline gerry

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Re: $1 A Day For Antiretrovirals In Africa ????
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2006, 02:02:24 AM »
Mitch:

Quote
I believe we actually do indirectly subsidize medical research for the rest of the world based on the prices paid for HIV meds in the first world, especially the US...

This is actually a true statement based on the current economics behind drug reasearch and development.  Because the bulk of research and development toward production of new patented drugs have to come from a percentage (whether it's a big chunk or a tiny smidge is up for debate because this is cloaked in corporate secrecy) of revenues generated from sales of the drugs.  So if the drugs are sold at the highest prices in the US, then by default, a bigger piece of the research dollar is generated in the US.  One just needs to look at some annual reports from the drug companies to realize that more than half of the revenues of big pharma are generated in the US.

This is distinct from the issues raised in this thread in which there was a statement made that these drug companies are subsidizing the ARV drugs SUPPLIED in poor African nations, which is erroneous.

Gerry

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: $1 A Day For Antiretrovirals In Africa ????
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2006, 08:36:37 AM »
Just want to mention that in some areas of Africa, even $1 a day would be prohibitive.

Some years ago at one of the international conferences, an African whom I talked with said the per capita budget for all health care in his country was $4. Even if that has changed since then, we're still talking a dire situation and about health care systems which are drastically understaffed and ill equipped to effectively meet the needs of the populations.
Andy Velez

 


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