Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
Newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr Instagram
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 25, 2014, 08:20:45 AM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 643515
  • Total Topics: 48965
  • Online Today: 174
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online
Users: 5
Guests: 114
Total: 119

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.  (Read 24575 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline fearless

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,191
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #150 on: March 11, 2010, 07:14:24 PM »
Ok, now it's my turn...

::face-palm::

HOW are people NOT getting the simple point being made? It sems that a misunderstanding popped up early in the thread and people keep perpetuating it. Sad.

Stop slapping yourself in the head matey. it's rattling your brain. I read your original post and I got the point, hence my post. My poiint is that those with 'fear of meds' should simply be told to suck it up and take them, and not have their irrational fears fed and indulged by this continual circular discussion that is going nowhere. The fear is just self indulgence of the worst kind.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 07:16:06 PM by fearless »
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline griezzel

  • Member
  • Posts: 46
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #151 on: March 11, 2010, 07:18:33 PM »
Stop slapping yourself in the head matey. it's rattling your brain. I read your original post and I got the point, hence my post. My poiint is that those with 'fear of meds' should simply be told to suck it up and take them, and not have their irrational fears fed and indulged by this continual circular discussion that is going nowhere. The fear is just self indulgence of the worst kind.

Brilliant! <sarcasm>

 ::)

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #152 on: March 11, 2010, 07:28:58 PM »
Stop slapping yourself in the head matey. it's rattling your brain.

Don't worry Steve, I finally got it, he/she lives in Eureka Ca, the brain is already rattled, and done so real good by the quake.

The window opens, and the light comes in.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline blackwingbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
  • Hello, all you happy people....
    • THE DARK MIND OF BLACKWINGBEAR
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #153 on: March 11, 2010, 08:27:29 PM »
My poiint is that those with 'fear of meds' should simply be told to suck it up and take them, and not have their irrational fears fed and indulged by this continual circular discussion that is going nowhere.

OK, I reread the whole thread.....and I really can't find where anyone has a 'fear of meds'. I think we all agree they are lifesavers. A couple on here expressed a desire for more knowledge about statistics, and someone brought-up side-effects but I can't find anyone that denies they are lifesaving drugs. Could someone maybe point me to a particular area where a person expresses a fear of them?
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline blackwingbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
  • Hello, all you happy people....
    • THE DARK MIND OF BLACKWINGBEAR
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #154 on: March 11, 2010, 08:32:13 PM »
OK, I DID see something posted by griezzel about fear, but it was not in a pro-fear way.
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline fearless

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,191
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #155 on: March 11, 2010, 09:11:15 PM »
While it's certainly true that the fear of side effects keeps a large percentage of people from starting therapy, I'm pretty certain that using fear and attempting to scare them into taking meds is not the best approach. I have found the tone of many people's posts, who advocate taking meds over waiting, sooner rather than later, and some that responded to my concerns about possible side-effects, to be disturbing and even offensive.

Like it or not, the fear of pharmaceutical side-effects can be just as powerful as the fear of disease, even stronger in some cases. Each person with this fear must come to understand the facts and risks of treatment for themselves, talking with their (hopefully well-informed) doctor about specific areas of concern related to their unique physiology and medical history.

Most of us have been conditioned against scare tactics since we were children. It turns out that children are usually much smarter than they are given credit for and can make appropiate choices when given all the facts and the opportunity. Adults may be even less inclined or able to make good decisions, however, based on our "wealth" of personal experience, which tends to affect our judgement.

blackwingbear - here is grizzles very first post on the matter. if it is not about meds and their potential side effects I need to go back to school.

Anyway, I think I've now done one full circle and will spend my energy on something usefull.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 09:13:37 PM by fearless »
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline blackwingbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
  • Hello, all you happy people....
    • THE DARK MIND OF BLACKWINGBEAR
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #156 on: March 11, 2010, 09:25:18 PM »
blackwingbear - here is grizzles very first post on the matter. if it is not about meds and their potential side effects I need to go back to school.

Anyway, I think I've now done one full circle and will spend my energy on something usefull.

But what grizzles seems to be protesting is not the meds, but use of fear-tactics!!
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,225
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #157 on: March 11, 2010, 09:32:29 PM »
Mary please -- look at the dates in his sig line, then look at the date he registered his profile, then get back to us.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline blackwingbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
  • Hello, all you happy people....
    • THE DARK MIND OF BLACKWINGBEAR
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #158 on: March 11, 2010, 09:42:12 PM »
Mary please -- look at the dates in his sig line, then look at the date he registered his profile, then get back to us.

You mean the fact he just started Atripla?
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline Fondoo

  • Member
  • Posts: 72
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #159 on: March 11, 2010, 10:17:41 PM »
 I was on meds roughly 10 yrs then took a 5yr break from meds and monitoring. I think the break was in order because some bad side effects were starting to mount. But the lack of monitoring was a mistake and I have paid. Had months of trouble with MAC and now a recent battle with PCP.
   I am definitely ready to go back into treatment I can be very stubborn but as they say the burnt hand teaches best.
   

Offline blackwingbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
  • Hello, all you happy people....
    • THE DARK MIND OF BLACKWINGBEAR
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #160 on: March 11, 2010, 10:25:48 PM »
I was on meds roughly 10 yrs then took a 5yr break from meds and monitoring. I think the break was in order because some bad side effects were starting to mount. But the lack of monitoring was a mistake and I have paid. Had months of trouble with MAC and now a recent battle with PCP.
   I am definitely ready to go back into treatment I can be very stubborn but as they say the burnt hand teaches best.
   

Very true. I had to be "burned" to learn my lesson too.
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,225
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #161 on: March 11, 2010, 10:41:19 PM »
... and the rest of us are just mindless sheep on Planet Groupthink.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #162 on: March 11, 2010, 10:57:41 PM »
OK, I reread the whole thread.....and I really can't find where anyone has a 'fear of meds'. I think we all agree they are lifesavers. A couple on here expressed a desire for more knowledge about statistics, and someone brought-up side-effects but I can't find anyone that denies they are lifesaving drugs. Could someone maybe point me to a particular area where a person expresses a fear of them?

Bear,

This post is titled correctly, and says nothing about the Fear of Meds, you suggest.
Secondly, we don't all agree, or else there would have been no reason for this very informative thread.

Lastly, I am going to illustrate your quandary with a bit of a story.  

If you are attending a conference, focused on HIV/AIDS, and you walk into a session that is attended by a large group of, very knowledgeable and experienced HIV/AIDS educators.  The first thing you do is start talking and traveling from conversation to conversation and all you do is go on about your knowledge, and your life story.  What happens is you will not hear or understand what is going on with all these people from around the globe who know each other.  Not only do they know each other, but they chat often about HIV and the life it brings.  Soon enough, you find that listening is to learn, and if so, you might understand that this thread was authored for not only you, but for many recently who didnít even post in the thread.  I know this, and I know who these people are, so you might just take a while to look around this forum, check some of the older threads, but please donít resurrect them.  They are there to give you some idea about who lives in these fora, and something about their lives.  

I am certainly not going to criticize you for diving right in, but sometimes that isnít just the best approach to an international group that is really very close emotionally also.  
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline blackwingbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
  • Hello, all you happy people....
    • THE DARK MIND OF BLACKWINGBEAR
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #163 on: March 11, 2010, 11:51:49 PM »
Bear,
I am certainly not going to criticize you for diving right in, but sometimes that isnít just the best approach to an international group that is really very close emotionally also.  



I'm still learning...hopefully same as everyone else, otherwise they've merely become a talking head. The one disturbing response I keep noticing on this forum, however, is that newbies and those deemed outsiders are NOT welcome - or at least not welcome to "speak". I was told to post an introductory thread - so I did. I'm no expert, and any observation I've made is just that.Discussion is permitted IF you have a been here a very long while and are well established here - problem is, that doesn't allow for anyone new to establish themselves here. I was merely making an observation based upon what I've noticed.   :)
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,238
  • Ninja Please
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #164 on: March 11, 2010, 11:56:17 PM »

I'm still learning...hopefully same as everyone else, otherwise they've merely become a talking head. The one disturbing response I keep noticing on this forum, however, is that newbies and those deemed outsiders are NOT welcome - or at least not welcome to "speak". I was told to post an introductory thread - so I did. I'm no expert, and any observation I've made is just that.Discussion is permitted IF you have a been here a very long while and are well established here - problem is, that doesn't allow for anyone new to establish themselves here. I was merely making an observation based upon what I've noticed.   :)

Welcome to the big bad world of Internet message boards.

Online communities are funny places. Like all groups of humans they have established norms and fuck help the newcomer who blunders and upsets the delicate balance of things.

MtD

Offline blackwingbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
  • Hello, all you happy people....
    • THE DARK MIND OF BLACKWINGBEAR
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #165 on: March 12, 2010, 12:02:28 AM »
Welcome to the big bad world of Internet message boards.

Online communities are funny places. Like all groups of humans they have established norms and fuck help the newcomer who blunders and upsets the delicate balance of things.

MtD

Well, I certainly didn't mean to upset the balance and I'm still adjusting to the norms. S'pose I should ask for a wee bit of patience from those elite members of the close-knit community as I adjust to it!
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,238
  • Ninja Please
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #166 on: March 12, 2010, 12:09:24 AM »
Well, I certainly didn't mean to upset the balance and I'm still adjusting to the norms. S'pose I should ask for a wee bit of patience from those elite members of the close-knit community as I adjust to it!

Jeeez Darren. You don't get it. You wonder why people are a bit prickly towards you? Why don't you check out the very first post you made here?

Let me quote it at ya:

I had a similar question, but there is just a bit too much caustic malevolence here to get a real answer. No offense to anyone, I just do not wish to become a target by asking a question.

In fact your first four posts are like that. You rocked up and the first words out of your gob basically read like:

"What a group of horrible fucktards you lot are!"

And you wonder why established members are a bit stand offish? Any "cliquishness" you're experiencing around here is entirely of your own making.

MtD

Offline blackwingbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
  • Hello, all you happy people....
    • THE DARK MIND OF BLACKWINGBEAR
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #167 on: March 12, 2010, 12:13:38 AM »
Jeeez Darren. You don't get it.

Oops. Excuse me for being honest.
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,225
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #168 on: March 12, 2010, 12:13:48 AM »
tut tut, Matty!  Stop with your nonsense!
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 12:38:49 AM by Miss Philicia »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,705
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #169 on: March 12, 2010, 12:18:21 AM »

I'm still learning...hopefully same as everyone else, otherwise they've merely become a talking head. The one disturbing response I keep noticing on this forum, however, is that newbies and those deemed outsiders are NOT welcome - or at least not welcome to "speak". I was told to post an introductory thread - so I did. I'm no expert, and any observation I've made is just that.Discussion is permitted IF you have a been here a very long while and are well established here - problem is, that doesn't allow for anyone new to establish themselves here. I was merely making an observation based upon what I've noticed.   :)

This is false, new members come in here all the time with nay problem.  The only people who ever have a problem getting "established" are the ones that seemingly come in with guns blazing, much like you did.  It doesn't make it impossible mind you, just a little harder...  you're burning bridges you never built yet.    I have seen new people come in and disagree without a problem, but they back it up with credible links and references instead of coming in and discrediting information that has been established as factual.

BTW, you made your introductory post after you made comments regarding how these forums operate.  I would have replied, but I was still trying to wash out the sour taste from your previous work.

Edited to add:Fuck matty beat me to it (mentioning your real intro)...  I gotta get past this 3 finger typing method, how the hell can I remain competetive when people are typing like a professional secretary?

« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 12:22:46 AM by skeebo1969 »
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline blackwingbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
  • Hello, all you happy people....
    • THE DARK MIND OF BLACKWINGBEAR
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #170 on: March 12, 2010, 12:21:00 AM »
I'm in a similar situation as the OP in thread I first posted in - just switch the roles. After seeing how caustic the regulars were to them because of their situation, I figured by stating mine it would make me a target. I can see how I came across a bit offensive and do apologize for that - in hindsight, I should have lurked around awhile first.

It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline Dennis

  • Member
  • Posts: 781
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #171 on: March 12, 2010, 12:36:59 AM »
Interesting. A fairly new member was made to feel like he had to apologige for being honest and jumping in and participating. Incredible!

Offline blackwingbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
  • Hello, all you happy people....
    • THE DARK MIND OF BLACKWINGBEAR
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #172 on: March 12, 2010, 12:46:06 AM »
Interesting. A fairly new member was made to feel like he had to apologize for being honest and jumping in and participating. Incredible!

You mean this is normal??

It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,705
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #173 on: March 12, 2010, 12:53:14 AM »
You mean this is normal??

Yes it is, meet Dennis he does this all the time.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline StrongGuy

  • Member
  • Posts: 492
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #174 on: March 12, 2010, 03:31:07 AM »
This thread looks like it's going nowhere good, fast. I would just say I don't see anything controversial with Moffie's initial post or why the conversations within are devolving, as it's simply Moffie's personal experience and his advice. Take it or leave it.  It doesnít mean you will have the same experience, but if you let your numbers get low enough, the real risk is there to develop those OIs. This isnít made up Ė or hyperbole to scare people (if it was I would be the first person chiming in/calling it out because I find sensationalized fear mongering not based on fact very dangerous). But these OIs are documented facts as to what could happen. Check the literature.
 
Itís your gamble and life to decide what you want to do. Personally, I think it's very important to advocate the consideration of meds (through an informed process with you and your doctors) and support people as their journey leads them down that path. As they say in the city -- deep breathe peoplesÖ

Peace out...
Mike
"Get your medical advice from Doctors or medical professionals who you trust and know your history."

"Beware of the fortune teller doom and gloomers who seek to bring you down and are only looking for company, purpose and validation - not your best physical/mental interests."

"You know you all are saying that this is incurable. When the real thing you should be saying is it's not curable at the present time' because as we know, the great strides we've made in medicine." - Elizabeth Edwards

Offline BT65

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 9,975
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #175 on: March 12, 2010, 06:40:32 AM »
Interesting. A fairly new member was made to feel like he had to apologige for being honest and jumping in and participating. Incredible!

I find this post, Dennis, interesting as well.  Only because you never seem to offer help so to speak, just accusations.  I guess maybe you have nothing really productive to say, just more wagging of the finger.

Blackbear, it's not true at all about newer member not being "allowed" to post this or that (sorry, the quote function isn't working right), as you stated in a previous post.  We've, or rather I've, just seen too many times, the deaths that can happen when people don't take heart-felt advice to heart.  And we get a bit tired of new people, who really don't know our posting histories, to come here and tongue-lash well established members, for their own opinions and experience.  And this is what happened in this very thread.  It's not necessarily we established members shooting down newer members, rather the other way around.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline David_CA

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,246
  • Joined: March 2006
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #176 on: March 12, 2010, 08:16:06 AM »
I'm in a similar situation as the OP in thread I first posted in - just switch the roles. After seeing how caustic the regulars were to them because of their situation, I figured by stating mine it would make me a target. I can see how I came across a bit offensive and do apologize for that - in hindsight, I should have lurked around awhile first.

Out of almost 2800 posts, I've gotten into heated disagreements in maybe 10 - 15 of them.  What's surprising about that, to me, is that I'm one of the most verbally opinionated people I know.  I am here on these forums, too.  I've not had problems with other members jumping on me about posts I've made.  When it has happened, you can bet most of the responders have also been ones who've posted in this thread, including me!   :D  That's fine, because this is an ongoing conversation of sorts based on what the OP stated with us adding our insight.

Opinions are fine, but they often don't change anything... especially for newcomers (either to HIV, meds, or the forum itself).  What does help these people are experiences and facts.  We try to provide this.  I know that I've always received as much help as I've needed from other members here when I was first infected, had questions about not having an undetectable viral load, etc.  My posts like these have only been answered with information, experiences, support, etc... exactly what a support group is supposed to do (I assume; I've never been to one) and without any negative posts from anybody.  In other words, I was a new member here once, too, and I wasn't harassed, etc by anybody.  

Opinions are easy to argue with; facts and experience aren't.  Let's save the arguments for opinion-related topics, not things like starting HAART to prevent OI's.  This is not directed to anybody in this thread specifically, although I quoted Darren initially.  There's a difference between being opinionated and disagreeable.  

(edited for typos)
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 08:20:55 AM by David_NC »
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Online Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,975
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #177 on: March 12, 2010, 08:32:39 AM »
Interesting. A fairly new member was made to feel like he had to apologige for being honest and jumping in and participating. Incredible!

Interesting. A fairly old member returns true to form. This is how you feel. You can't possibly know how this fairly new member feels. Sad how you use the posting of another person for your own agenda. Typical.

Offline blackwingbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
  • Hello, all you happy people....
    • THE DARK MIND OF BLACKWINGBEAR
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #178 on: March 12, 2010, 10:15:42 AM »
  And we get a bit tired of new people, who really don't know our posting histories, to come here and tongue-lash well established members, for their own opinions and experience. 

Wasn't over their opinions or experience that anyone complained - it was over how caustically insulting and degrading they were being.
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline blackwingbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
  • Hello, all you happy people....
    • THE DARK MIND OF BLACKWINGBEAR
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #179 on: March 12, 2010, 10:19:32 AM »
 This is not directed to anybody in this thread specifically, although I quoted Darren initially.  There's a difference between being opinionated and disagreeable.  

(edited for typos)

Fine, then, I'm a disagreeable asshole - but, again, it wasn't their experience or opinions even that I disagreed with. It was their seeming need to be insulting and degrading.
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline blackwingbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
  • Hello, all you happy people....
    • THE DARK MIND OF BLACKWINGBEAR
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #180 on: March 12, 2010, 10:21:20 AM »
We've, or rather I've, just seen too many times, the deaths that can happen when people don't take heart-felt advice to heart. 

I never questioned the advice, though, just the emotional need of members to be caustic and insulting.
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #181 on: March 12, 2010, 10:44:08 AM »
Bear,
Please do your homework.  There is no need to make three posts to answer three people.  You can simply address us in your post by putting our names above your comment, and get three people in one post.  Otherwise, I did read your introduction post, that was placed in the Long Term Survivor Forum.  SEE, you are just not paying attention to the SOP of this website.  Also, since you have decided to pick everyones nit, why did you read the whole thread without going to the lessons on OIs and read that many can happen below 500 CD4, and not 200.  I know you are bright enough to figure out why I bring this up.  Hint, "fear".
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Inchlingblue

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,119
  • Chad Ochocinco PETA Ad
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #182 on: March 12, 2010, 10:57:53 AM »
Bear: If you want to be able to do the QUOTE function to quote more than one previous post, just hit REPLY for the whole thread, if you scroll down below the blank screen for you to type your reply, you'll see everyone else's posts with INSERT QUOTE on the upper right. This allows quoting from several different previous posts in one post.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 11:02:52 AM by Inchlingblue »

Offline blackwingbear

  • Member
  • Posts: 363
  • Hello, all you happy people....
    • THE DARK MIND OF BLACKWINGBEAR
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #183 on: March 12, 2010, 02:34:18 PM »
Bear: If you want to be able to do the QUOTE function to quote more than one previous post, just hit REPLY for the whole thread, if you scroll down below the blank screen for you to type your reply, you'll see everyone else's posts with INSERT QUOTE on the upper right. This allows quoting from several different previous posts in one post.

Thank you! That was extremely helpful! Everyone was complaining about multiple-posts, but no-one would simply tell me how to quote various posters. Thank you very much!
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline Peacock

  • Member
  • Posts: 72
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #184 on: March 13, 2010, 05:43:28 AM »
great post, and interesting reading the responses!
Personally- the anxiety I felt when I was not on meds was huge, and watching my Cd4 drop slowly but steadily was horrific to me. The HAART treatment was like a life jacket thrown to me at the right time, and I grabbed and consumed it-despite the long list of side effects because I knew it would improve my life!... and it did.
Peacock,Steve
Diagnosed 07/01/2002
Started Haart- 25/11/04 Cd4: 205 VL: 76'500
                      19/12/08 Cd4: 623 VL: UD
      26/03/12 Cd4: 497 Cd4%: 30.10 VL: UD
Combivir and Nevirapine(200mg) x1 of each-Am & pm
Not changed Meds since starting on HAART
Green Tea,Multivit,Selenium ACE,Folic acid,Vit C,Aciclovir 200mg 5x per day for 3 days-(ONLY when I have Shingles!)
100 percent adherence-with the help of a wristwatch!

Offline Inchlingblue

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,119
  • Chad Ochocinco PETA Ad
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #185 on: April 14, 2010, 06:24:06 PM »
There's one in the pipeline that he is hoping I can hold out for. He knows about my adherence issues and wants me on a once-a-day schedule, as do I.

He knows I won't take Sustiva, he doesn't think Reyataz would be a good fit for me (because of Norvir), and doesn't trust once-daily Isentress. The med he's hoping I can wait for is elvitegravir boosted with cobicistat, which is another new med in the pipeline. He's very happy with the trial results of this combo so far.


Once-daily Isentress is likely to be officially approved much sooner than Gilead's Quad, which is the one you refer to. The Quad is very promising but it's essentially another integrase inhibitor with a new booster (plus Truvada). Even once it's approved there will have been many more years of research supporting Isentress so why jump onto a new bandwagon when there's something more tried and true?

Unless of course, some horrible unexpected side effect starts emerging all of a sudden from Isentress use but that's (hopefully) unlikely at this point.

LINK:

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=26743.0

Offline RJNYC

  • member
  • Posts: 2
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #186 on: April 15, 2010, 10:51:35 AM »
Like a witch-hunt for denialists carried to the extreme.

This is a grim subject for a first post on the forum, but denialists specifically target message boards like this and have done for many years. Because they know they can't openly try and promote the BS of Duesberg et al, they try subtler infiltration and so it's no wonder moderators end up getting a bit paranoid. I'm pretty sure this is the same buffaloboy:

http://forums.questioningaids.com/showthread.php?t=5618

And Etay is allowing himself to be used to promote Duesberg's organization "Rethinking AIDS"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJjMVp4pmBw


Offline Inchlingblue

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,119
  • Chad Ochocinco PETA Ad
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #187 on: April 15, 2010, 11:43:36 AM »
This is a grim subject for a first post on the forum, but denialists specifically target message boards like this and have done for many years. Because they know they can't openly try and promote the BS of Duesberg et al, they try subtler infiltration and so it's no wonder moderators end up getting a bit paranoid. I'm pretty sure this is the same buffaloboy:

http://forums.questioningaids.com/showthread.php?t=5618

And Etay is allowing himself to be used to promote Duesberg's organization "Rethinking AIDS"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJjMVp4pmBw


Wow, thanks for posting that.

Buffaloboy has a hidden agenda, quelle surprise!

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,225
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #188 on: April 15, 2010, 12:16:01 PM »
I'm pretty sure this is the same buffaloboy:

http://forums.questioningaids.com/showthread.php?t=5618

Indeed it is -- is that a denialist web site?

edit:  Why indeed it is!  tut tut... and BB kept claiming he was not a AIDS dissident.  I'll bet $10 that he will come in here and claim that the name similarity is mere coincidence.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2010, 12:25:23 PM by Miss Philicia »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,225
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #189 on: April 15, 2010, 12:16:25 PM »
Wow, thanks for posting that.

Buffaloboy has a hidden agenda, quelle surprise!

Oh, I'm not sure how "hidden" it is/was.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Boo Radley

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,252
  • Not a "real man" and damn proud, mithter... FAB
    • Animal Rescue New Orleans
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #190 on: April 15, 2010, 12:26:04 PM »
Come now... we all know the questions asked by Duesberg were valid in 1984.   Just because they've been answered numerous times since then is no reason these brave souls should stop asking the same questions ad nauseam.   

I know for a fact Yersinia Pestis IS NOT the cause of Bubonic Plague.  It's AZT, pure and simple.  Refute that, you merchants of death!!

Use your minds and think outside the box... of sanity. 
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #191 on: April 15, 2010, 04:03:51 PM »

Use your minds and think outside the box... of sanity. 

I can't even believe you allowed your fingers to type these words.  WOW.  Are you by any chance looking into a mirror this morning?
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Boo Radley

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,252
  • Not a "real man" and damn proud, mithter... FAB
    • Animal Rescue New Orleans
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #192 on: April 15, 2010, 05:35:21 PM »
I can't even believe you allowed your fingers to type these words.  WOW.  Are you by any chance looking into a mirror this morning?

What are you talking about?  Ever heard of sarcasm?  Did you read any of the posts preceding mine?  Screw that, did you even read my post?  You think it's serious?

You've always done a fantastic job taking umbrage over nothing but if you're serious about my post you've outdone even yourself.  

Look in the mirror yourself, Muffy.  
« Last Edit: April 15, 2010, 05:36:54 PM by Boo Radley »
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,782
  • Smart ass faggot ©
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #193 on: April 15, 2010, 06:07:43 PM »
I'm pretty sure this is the same buffaloboy:

http://forums.questioningaids.com/showthread.php?t=5618

And Etay is allowing himself to be used to promote Duesberg's organization "Rethinking AIDS"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJjMVp4pmBw



Please. These two are no more than pure, lonely, rejected, and misunderstood victims.  We are the evil witches, pawns of big scary pharrma, trying to force feed them toxic pellets for a disease that apparently can be cured with green tea, black walnuts, fish, and meditation.

Agenda? Meh! 
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline Boo Radley

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,252
  • Not a "real man" and damn proud, mithter... FAB
    • Animal Rescue New Orleans
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #194 on: April 15, 2010, 06:21:56 PM »
Please. These two are no more than pure, lonely, rejected, and misunderstood victims.  We are the evil witches, pawns of big scary pharrma, trying to force feed them toxic pellets for a disease that apparently can be cured with green tea, black walnuts, fish, and meditation.

Agenda? Meh! 

You forgot to mention the DEADLY AZT that killed so many in the early years of the epidemic... long before AZT, an unsuccessful cancer treatment,  had even been pulled off the shelves of the NIH.   I guess those people snorted too many poppers.
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline Etay1207

  • Member
  • Posts: 131
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #195 on: April 15, 2010, 07:38:16 PM »
Tim Horn wrote this:
What Moffie's talking about is the actually prevalence of the JC virus -- the microorganism believed to be responsible for the destruction of healthy brain tissue in people with PML. The virus can be found lying dormant in the central nervous systems of 85 to 90 percent of adults all over the world; it truly is an ubiquitous bug. In fact, its one of those infections that people never really "get rid of," but rather have healthy enough immune systems to keep in check for the duration of their lives. Fortunately, JC virus rarely causes problems among people living with HIV, even those with serious suppressed immune systems -- but the risk is very much there for those with CD4 counts in the double digits. 

In this way, JC virus is like numerous other viral infections -- including herpes simplex virus II, varicella (the chickenpox virus), human herpes virus-8 (responsible for KS), and cytomegalovirus. These viruses are quite common in the adult population (the prevalence of CMV infection, for example, exceeds 90 percent among men who have sex with men in some series), but as a rule, they're only likely to cause disease -- to take the "opportunity" to cause illness  -- in those without the immune systems to keep them at bay. (The microorganisms responsible for PCP and MAC work somewhat similarly -- these are ubiquitous in the environment and humans are exposed to them on a regular basis; only those with compromised immune systems are likely to develop serious disease from these otherwise harmless bugs; a fungus and bacterium, respectively).

Now this is the problem I have with IRS.  This is why it's not making sense to me.  I've been told (by my doctor as well as people on these forums) that I am not sick because I have no immune response.  But 90% of the population is not sick because their immune systems keep these viruses in check.  I'm being honest and would appreciate an honest reply as to why there is a difference in why I'm not showing symptoms and why an HIV- person is not showing symptoms to these viruses mentioned. 



RJNYC posted a link to a video of me edited and used by a denialist(which is a "NO NO" by the way).  Some denialist love me because I'm not on meds and I'm knowledgedable about both sides of the debate.  Some denialist don't like me too much.  But that's a different story. I'm no dummy.  I know that if I were to start treatment or if I were to get sick, I would have no value to them. But some of them may still use my story as true even though I have resorted to treatment.  Example: There is a website dedicated to HIVers who have either stopped treatment, or never started.  My story is on that site as well.  I emailed each one of the other people who have posted their stories.  Of those that have responded, half of them are back on treatment.  The site has not been updated to portray that very important fact.   

RJNYC also posted a link to their forums. (which is another "NO NO").  If you read through you will see my posts.  Not only will you see my post, but you will see post of people who are taking meds and argue on the side of the orthodoxy.You will also see post and replies by people who have quit taking their meds just to go back on them later due to illness. 

There are 3 in my household who are HIV+. Myself, my fiance, and one of our kids.  I am the only one not on meds.  Not only do I support my partner and child being on treatment, but I remind them to take their meds twice a day, everyday.  They are both 100% compliant. 

I have decided to stay off treatment until I was fully convinced that treatment is in my best interest.  Quotes like the one given by Tim Horn is why I question if I need to be on meds right now.
POZ since 1999
1/07 tcells: 530 vl: 72,922 7/07 tcells: 542 vl: 26,577
9/08 tcells: 339 vl: 56,120  7/09 tcells: 267 vl: 663,160
11/09 tcells: 71 vl: 498,670 2/10 tcells: 52 vl: 322,000
 no meds and feeling great!

Offline Hellraiser

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,136
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #196 on: April 15, 2010, 07:45:01 PM »
I love that buffalo got caught red handed.  At least the others try to hide it a little better.

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,225
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #197 on: April 15, 2010, 07:49:23 PM »
I love that buffalo got caught red handed.  At least the others try to hide it a little better.

Remember his gay friends that were getting married but he'd become alienated from, and he spent a month wringing his hands about attending?  I'd bet money these friends distanced themselves from him when they saw him get HIV and become a dissident.  

Then again I thought he was full of BS from Day One.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Boo Radley

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,252
  • Not a "real man" and damn proud, mithter... FAB
    • Animal Rescue New Orleans
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #198 on: April 15, 2010, 08:17:25 PM »
...
I have decided to stay off treatment until I was fully convinced that treatment is in my best interest.  Quotes like the one given by Tim Horn is why I question if I need to be on meds right now.

My best friend died on June 28, 1997 because by the time he began taking meds his immune system was too weak to deal with the HIV meds and treatments for the OIs he developed literally within a few weeks.  When he got his first CD4 count it was about what yours is now.  VL testing wasn't done routinely then but that's beside the point.  Glenn lost sight in one eye and partially in the other from CMV and became so sick with disseminated cryptococcosis he could barely take the three weekly treatments of IV Amphotericin B.   Again, this all occurred over about 4 weeks.  That was in late 1996.  I watched my best friend die a slow, painful, miserable death because he refused to seek treatment earlier when he might have had a fighting chance.  Up until the time he became ill he felt fine.

What everyone has been telling you is you're playing with fire. You may be one of the rare people who will live for years where you are now but more likely you'll just get sick and, if you're not lucky, too sick to fight off the side effects of meds and the OIs.  It's your life, though, but do you really want your fiancee and children to see you dying and know you died when you might have lived?  Gook luck, my friend.
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline Tim Horn

  • Member
  • Posts: 799
Re: For those of you who might be questioning HAART, or maybe when to start.
« Reply #199 on: April 15, 2010, 10:46:55 PM »
I have decided to stay off treatment until I was fully convinced that treatment is in my best interest.  Quotes like the one given by Tim Horn is why I question if I need to be on meds right now.

Etay:

I'm a little taken aback that my comments on the immune system and various infectious diseases have somehow translated into a reason for you to avoid meds. Obviously, I didn't spell things out clearly enough.  

Think of it this way -- HIV doesn't cause the entire immune system to become suppressed, but rather kills off a key component of the immune system: CD4 cells. CD4 cells are like the conductors of the immune system; lose too many of them and the rest of the immune system can't work in sync to fight an infection and to avoid unnecessary damage. Without CD4 cells, microorganism-fighting cells like CD8 cells simply remain oblivious to the fact that an infection is spreading uncontrollably in the body. CD4 cells also play a role in keeping the immune response at bay -- without them, other immune system cells, such as macrophages, go unchecked in their release of inflammatory chemicals and their attack on healthy tissues.  

In immune-competent individuals with healthy CD4 counts, the immune system is able to keep persistent microorganisms -- such as CMV and herpes simplex virus -- dormant in the body. If these microorganisms decide to begin replicating, "memory" CD4 cells (a group of CD4 cells formed after the infection was first encountered by the immune system) can quickly respond, mobilize CD8 cells and effectively prevent the microorganism from replicating uncontrollably, all before inflammatory components take over and literally go ballistic.  

In immune-suppressed individuals, especially for those with "holes" in their memory CD4 cell repertoire (and the longer HIV is allowed to replicate, the greater and more numerous these holes become), the disease-fighting components of the immune system are unable to contain the spread of the infection, while inflammatory components of the immune system continue unchecked, causing serious damage such as destroyed retinas (CMV), severe cutaneous and system disease (herpes zoster), and so on.

I'm not sure who told you that you're not sick because you have no immune response. At best, this simply isn't true; at worst, its a downright dangerous assumption. Without CD4 cells, Etay, you still have an immune response -- an unguided, highly unpredictable, potentially lethal immune system that essentially burns down the house without ever killing the rat.

Why haven't you been sick? I can't say -- it could be that you have just enough memory CD4 cells to keep persistent infections (e.g., CMV and other herpes viruses) in check and just enough "naive" CD4 cells to respond effectively to new infections (e.g., MAC and cryptosporidiosis, to name a few). It's when the CD4 count falls below 200 -- and certainly below 100 -- that these holes  can become so significant that, should an older infection decide to wake itself up or you come into contact with a new disease-causing microorganism, your immune system will simply be unprepared to deal with it.

What's more, waiting to start antiretroviral therapy until you are sick is a seriously dangerous risk. Supposing you end up dealing with an opportunistic infection that causes intractable diarrhea or profound nausea -- the meds won't stay in your gut long enough to be absorbed properly. And don't forget -- antiretroviral therapy can take months to even partially restore the immune system, especially in people with very low CD4 cell counts to begin with. Make no mistake about it, antiretroviral therapy in critical times will not have an instant Lazarus effect.    

I've had friends who have suffered serious opportunistic infections when their CD4 cells were around the 200 mark; I've also had a few friends who have remained well for many months with a CD4 count below 50. Sadly, they ended up getting sick -- one with cryptosporidiosis that required hospitalization and weeks of trial-and-error treatment before it could be stabilized, but not before he lost more than 35 pounds. He never recovered fully from that, despite going onto antiretrovirals, and died 11 months later.

Etay, nobody here is saying that you should be sick now. What people are concerned about, myself included, is what will happen when you do become sick. It could be next week, next month or two years from now. I don't know -- nobody does, least of all you. I strongly encourage you to think about heading off trouble before it starts.

Tim
« Last Edit: April 15, 2010, 11:07:56 PM by Tim Horn »

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.