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Author Topic: Aids vs. HIV  (Read 18707 times)

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Offline LiveWithIt

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Aids vs. HIV
« on: March 04, 2010, 05:04:53 PM »
I was once told that once you have Aids you will always be classified as having Aids.  Is this still true?  Or if your viral load is at or near Zero are you just HIV positive?
Pray God you can cope
I know you have a little life in you yet.
I know you have a lot of strength left.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2010, 05:08:48 PM »
Once you are classified as having AIDS you'll always be classified as having AIDS in the state and national data base.

Offline LiveWithIt

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2010, 05:12:25 PM »
Once you are classified as having AIDS you'll always be classified as having AIDS in the state and national data base.

I will have to ask my doctor to see what they say.
Pray God you can cope
I know you have a little life in you yet.
I know you have a lot of strength left.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2010, 05:13:49 PM »
"AIDS" is just a clinical label and really not something for folks to lose their shit over. I appreciate that it's a laden term but y'know . . .

MtD

Offline LiveWithIt

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2010, 05:18:32 PM »
"AIDS" is just a clinical label and really not something for folks to lose their shit over. I appreciate that it's a laden term but y'know . . .

MtD

You are still a delicate wordsmith. 
Pray God you can cope
I know you have a little life in you yet.
I know you have a lot of strength left.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2010, 05:23:37 PM »
You are still a delicate wordsmith. 

Fuckin' oath! :)

MtD

Offline LiveWithIt

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2010, 05:25:12 PM »
Fuckin' oath! :)

MtD

Your anger can't be good for your health.
Pray God you can cope
I know you have a little life in you yet.
I know you have a lot of strength left.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2010, 05:26:42 PM »
Your anger can't be good for your health.

Au contraire! It's what keeps me going. Well that and vodka.

MtD

Offline Ravhyn

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2010, 05:34:16 PM »
I honestly dont see much of a difference between the two except that at least from what I understand once you get aids its a little harder to build and maintain your immune system up and until you get your immune system back up your suspectible to OI's.

I talked to my doc about it yesterday when she said my numbers we're 152.  and she said not to worry its just classification and I can still say "hey I have HIV and here's my CD4 number" 

But I think the meds are really good these days and even with Aids we can live a long time as long as we stick to the pills =)
April 2006 - Sero-Conversion
December 2009 - Diagnosed
Jan 2010- VL 3,800 CD4 152
Summer 2010 VL UD, CD4 over 200
September 2010 VL UD, CD4 324
March 2011 VL UD, CD4 477
May 2011 VL UD, 338

Offline mecch

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2010, 05:37:11 PM »
From the perspective of an HIV+ person, and American citizen, where health care is anything but a sure thing, and living wages are hard to come by - i suggest you milk the term "AIDS" for anyway the label will help you to fight and stay healthy with a normal life.  For those closest to you, you can educate them about the difference and the current situation of people living with HIV.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2010, 05:38:42 PM »
I honestly dont see much of a difference between the two except that at least from what I understand once you get aids its a little harder to build and maintain your immune system up and until you get your immune system back up your suspectible to OI's.

I think for most people it's a psychological thing that they have trouble getting past.  Frankly it's never made much sense to me, but this question surprisingly surfaces here about every other month.  I don't see what the big deal is that some government bureaucracy continues to classify your diagnosis one way or the other. They just use it as a statistic.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline LiveWithIt

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2010, 05:41:40 PM »
I think for most people it's a psychological thing that they have trouble getting past.  Frankly it's never made much sense to me, but this question surprisingly surfaces here about every other month.  I don't see what the big deal is that some government bureaucracy continues to classify your diagnosis one way or the other. They just use it as a statistic.

It may be a good thing.  Having "Aids" might help you get assistance with meds, etc.  It's much harder to say I have Aids, than I am HIV positive.   There is a difference.  Some people are HIV positive and have never had "Aids".
Pray God you can cope
I know you have a little life in you yet.
I know you have a lot of strength left.

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2010, 05:41:53 PM »
I always thought the AIDS diagnosis was in the "Dark times" when there were no meds that it was an indicator that the end was near.  It really isn't applicable anymore unless you're out of treatment options eh?

Offline LiveWithIt

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2010, 05:43:31 PM »
I always thought the AIDS diagnosis was in the "Dark times" when there were no meds that it was an indicator that the end was near.  It really isn't applicable anymore unless you're out of treatment options eh?

This is the first answer I found:

What is HIV (human immunodeficiency virus)? HIV simply means that you have tested positive for the virus. It does not become AIDS usually for ten years or until immune system problems appear.

The word is less used now that there are treatments and HIV is controllable like Diabetes, but less damaging.  (as far as we know)
Pray God you can cope
I know you have a little life in you yet.
I know you have a lot of strength left.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2010, 05:54:07 PM »
It may be a good thing.  Having "Aids" might help you get assistance with meds, etc.  It's much harder to say I have Aids, than I am HIV positive.   There is a difference.  Some people are HIV positive and have never had "Aids".

Nobody forces you to "say" it -- like I said, it's just for statistical purposes I've found.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline leatherman

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2010, 05:55:18 PM »
It really isn't applicable anymore unless you're out of treatment options eh?
or if you first present tomorrow for the first time at the ER with PCP, cd4 count of 10, and viral load of 680,000 ;)

today someone will find out that not only have they been HIV positive for some time :'(; but that it has progressed to the AIDS stage :'( and demands immediate treatment :o
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Poz Brit

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2010, 08:17:23 PM »
in my part of the UK, your HIV, what ever, unless your a bit of a drama queen, and need to make a point, or an impression?

Offline LiveWithIt

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2010, 08:31:59 PM »
in my part of the UK, your HIV, what ever, unless your a bit of a drama queen, and need to make a point, or an impression?

I'm so glad that it's not only Americans who can't write "you're" correctly. 
Pray God you can cope
I know you have a little life in you yet.
I know you have a lot of strength left.

Offline leatherman

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2010, 08:39:23 PM »
I'm so glad that it's not only Americans who can't write "you're" correctly. 
There's a FaceBook page for that  :D
Become a fan of "Knowing the Difference Between "Their", "There" and "They're""
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Boo Radley

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2010, 09:19:40 PM »
I can't remember and am far too lazy to check but...

I thought a CD4 count below 200 was used only in the USA to "define" AIDS and most other countries define AIDS by OIs and other indicators of severe immune suppression.   It's a minor distinction to me since a CD4 < 200 mandates HAART regardless of other factors.   In the USA I have AIDS only because of my low CD4 cell counts past and present.  I have yet to experience a definitive OI.  In Canada I might not have AIDS but I'd be on HAART still. 

"HIV disease" is what I've been using since the 90s but many people still don't understand HIV starts its attack almost immediately after infection.   "AIDS" seems to register more fully so I often use the term to be brief but as far as I'm concerned I don't have AIDS, not what killed most of my friends and acquaintances over the last 25+ years.   
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2010, 11:38:23 PM »
I was told I would always be considered to have AIDS--even though my numbers bounced back.  Here in KY with an AIDS diagnosis, you're required to sign up for disability to get ADAP.  You don't have to actually get it.  You just have to show you signed up.  I suppose if you have a job with benefits and just need a little assistance from ADAP, they may not make ya do that.

For me, that AIDS diagnosis hangs over my head.  Even though I know it doesn't really matter, it sometimes comes up when seeing docs and dentists.  They sometimes ask whether you've ever been diagnosed with AIDS.  I have to say yes. 

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2010, 02:48:43 AM »
my understanding of it is this if your cd4's drop below 200 and u have an OI and are classified as having AIDS then even if they bounce back up to 1000 and u no longer have an OI you are still classified as having AIDS because this makes it easier to get back on to Soc Sec Disabiility for those who may have been on it, then have a rebound and go off it and back to work, then get sick again --- a person doesn't have to go all the way back thru the process ---- at least that is my understanding of it from what a case manager told me and my ex a while back
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline Etay1207

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2010, 02:18:27 PM »
I thought a CD4 count below 200 was used only in the USA to "define" AIDS and most other countries define AIDS by OIs and other indicators of severe immune suppression... not what killed most of my friends and acquaintances over the last 25+ years.   

Boo Radley, I read the same thing.  The US is the only country that uses CD4 count to define AIDS.  I have two friends who are having a really tough time right now because of AIDS.  One, sad to say, is on his way out and the other is dealing with infection after infection and infection on top of infections.  As I was sitting in the hospital visiting one of them he was telling me that he was happy to not have AIDS by definition. His tcells have never been below the 500 range and his pnemonia is not PCP.  But yet he was in the hospital with pnemonia 3 times in the past 5 months! That is one thing about AIDS that is confusing to me.  Isn't AIDS a breakdown of the immune system? It is clear that his immune system is not functioning properly regardless of his normal tcell count.  Nobody can deny that he has AIDS.  People put me in the same boat as him because my tcells are low.  But the fact remains, I don't have pnemonia and my body is MUCH stronger than his for he is frail from being so sick.  I don't know what to make of this. 
POZ since 1999
1/07 tcells: 530 vl: 72,922 7/07 tcells: 542 vl: 26,577
9/08 tcells: 339 vl: 56,120  7/09 tcells: 267 vl: 663,160
11/09 tcells: 71 vl: 498,670 2/10 tcells: 52 vl: 322,000
 no meds and feeling great!

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2010, 02:26:22 PM »
HIV- people can have recurrent pneumonia (non-PCP).  Your error is in attempting to connect every illness with HIV infection.  Sometimes it is, sometimes it is not.  The bottom line is that 500 cd4 doesn't prevent anyone from getting non-PCP pneumonia or other respiratory infections like bronchitis.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 02:32:22 PM by Miss Philicia »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2010, 04:27:11 PM »
non-PCP pneumonias

Aspiration Pneumonia
Bacterial Pneumonia
Chlamydial Pneumonia
Drug-Resistant Pneumonia
Eosinophilic Pneumonia
Fungal Pneumonia
Mycoplasma Pneumonia
Pneumococcal Pneumonia
Streptococcal Pneumonia
Viral Pneumonia

Offline Moffie65

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2010, 04:59:51 PM »
Boys and Girls;

This one comes up about every other month, as has been stated.

HIV= Human Immunodifency Virus.  Or, you get this when infected.

AIDS= (If you have HIV, please learn that these are both acronyms so they are capitalized)  CD4 cells have dropped below 200, by the U. S. Centers for Disease Control.  Other countries also use the 200 CD4 for clarity, but also add, as is true here also, any AIDS defining illness, such as PCP, MAC, or any other of the many Opportunistic Infections.

Pretty simple.  Confusion lies with the various things that are keyed by AIDS, such as Doctors who need to know the score, and also in many countries it triggers the possibility of financial and drug assistance, of various forms.  

Not so much in the United States any more, since the Social Security Administration has fully accepted the bullshit that HIV/AIDS is simply a chronic condition and no longer a fatal disease.  Funny how politics, drug companies, and ignorant governing bodies seem to be able to re-define science to make their own agendas more important than the people who are living with this disease.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Poz Brit

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2010, 06:29:44 PM »
Moffie, you are so correct, as usual. I think, here in the UK, they wish to lessen the severity of AIDS and try to call it HIV, they tell you it's no worse that diabetes, but they don't tell diabetics, it no worse than HIV.

 

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2010, 07:01:22 PM »
they tell you it's no worse that diabetes, but they don't tell diabetics, it no worse than HIV.

 

I've always found that line of thinking to be some ludicrous Pollyanna BS. You are so right: it is interesting how the inverse does not apply. 
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline Trace67

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2010, 09:09:33 AM »
Yes-from a clinical perspective within the United States; once your CD4 count is less than 200 you are clinically categorized as having AIDS. This diagnosis never changes. In 2004 I was diagnosed with AIDS with a CD4 of 132 and a viral load of over 100,000 copies. Even if your CD4 count hopefully fluctuates, you are still diagnosed with AIDS!

Offline Etay1207

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2010, 09:24:05 AM »
I have family members and friends with diabetes and to be honest, I'd rather have AIDS. My quality of life is better than theirs.
POZ since 1999
1/07 tcells: 530 vl: 72,922 7/07 tcells: 542 vl: 26,577
9/08 tcells: 339 vl: 56,120  7/09 tcells: 267 vl: 663,160
11/09 tcells: 71 vl: 498,670 2/10 tcells: 52 vl: 322,000
 no meds and feeling great!

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2010, 09:41:50 AM »
Etay . I have both Aids and diabetes . For the most part I can control my diabetes with diet and exercise . That doesn't work well for Aids my friend .  

It would be better if you say what you really think about aids and cut out this passive aggressive crap .   
« Last Edit: March 06, 2010, 09:53:09 AM by jg1962 »

Offline Moffie65

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2010, 09:43:19 AM »
I watched my Mother die from the side effects of Diebetes Etay, and on one thing, I do agree with you.  Her death was NOT something I would choose to do either.  

HOWEVER, that being said, you are NOT healthy under any definition of the word, when taking into account your numbers.  You know Etay, ignorance is usually bliss, however you my friend, are not ignorant, nor are you blissful, or you wouldn't spend your precious time here on this forum trying to persuade us that you are denying the reality of HIV/AIDS.  What is your reality is denial, and denial of the most dangerous sort.  

You know Etay, you stated in another thread that you had legitimate questions about HIV/AIDS, yet you felt uneasy in asking them here.  I would say that everytime you ask a question, you do so with a defined agenda, and that agenda keeps you from hearing or reading what people are trying to say to you.  If you really want to know, and you really want to admit you are in need of true knowledge that you will truly act on; then maybe we would be more inclined to really help you out, however, you have blocked that on all fronts.

Wake up buddy, you are walking a very dark pathway by refusing to take medications for your HIV/AIDS.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Boo Radley

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2010, 06:40:43 PM »
... That is one thing about AIDS that is confusing to me.  Isn't AIDS a breakdown of the immune system? It is clear that his immune system is not functioning properly regardless of his normal tcell count.  Nobody can deny that he has AIDS.  People put me in the same boat as him because my tcells are low.  But the fact remains, I don't have pnemonia and my body is MUCH stronger than his for he is frail from being so sick.  I don't know what to make of this. 

Your friend doesn't have AIDS in the USA (and several other developed countries) if his CD4 count is over 200 and >14% of lymphocyte count and he/she's never had an OI.  We can all have other infections and diseases regardless of HIV status.  I don't know your friends but each of us is unique (as are our infections very soon after we become infected) and I've been really fucking lucky.  That's what I meant by the reference to many others who are no longer here.

Etay, I believe it's presumptuous to lecture you about the dire risk you're in.  For all I know you'll live to be 125.  Or you may develop PCP and die in a few weeks.   Please practice safer sex.  Please don't procreate.  It's not fair to allow a child to die because of parental hubris & ignorance, as the late AIDS denialist Christine Maggiore did with her 3 year old daughter.  Otherwise live as you desire and good luck.
String up every aristocrat!
Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!





Everything I do, say, think, excrete, secrete, exude, ooze, or write © 2007 Sweet Old Boo, Inc.

Offline decayingsinner

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2010, 08:22:23 PM »
I always thought the AIDS diagnosis was in the "Dark times" when there were no meds that it was an indicator that the end was near.  It really isn't applicable anymore unless you're out of treatment options eh?

Fortunately.  It really is more of a clinical term I think when it comes to viral load and cd4 count.  It's always refreshing to read how far we have come and to know it's not something that means death within a couple of years.

Offline Nestor

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2010, 11:49:04 PM »
Quote
I've always found that line of thinking to be some ludicrous Pollyanna BS. You are so right: it is interesting how the inverse does not apply. 

It may be, but it is very well meant.  The fact is that many people's lives are either ruined or very dramatically darkened by AIDS hysteria.  Look at the article about the people in China who are sure that they are gravely ill and have gotten tested again and again despite always coming back negative.  In another country I was reading about a xenophobic "get the foreigners out" sort of campaign, and one of the main things they were accusing foreigners of was "spreading AIDS".  Even here in the New York, I've had an apparently sophisticated and sane gay man become hysterical when I told him that I had HIV.  If spreading the idea that "it's no worse than diabetes" can combat this kind of thing, then by all means bring it on.

In a wierd way diabetes suffers from the opposite extreme.  For whatever reason, I think a lot of people may underestimate its severity. 


Quote
I have two friends who are having a really tough time right now because of AIDS.  One, sad to say, is on his way out...

Etay, I'm sorry to hear you say this about a friend!  I hope it isn't so!  What exactly does he have? 

Quote
and the other is dealing with infection after infection and infection on top of infections.  As I was sitting in the hospital visiting one of them he was telling me that he was happy to not have AIDS by definition. His tcells have never been below the 500 range and his pnemonia is not PCP.  But yet he was in the hospital with pnemonia 3 times in the past 5 months!

Is either one of these friends of yours taking meds? 


Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2010, 12:04:04 AM »
It may be, but it is very well meant.  The fact is that many people's lives are either ruined or very dramatically darkened by AIDS hysteria.  Look at the article about the people in China who are sure that they are gravely ill and have gotten tested again and again despite always coming back negative.  In another country I was reading about a xenophobic "get the foreigners out" sort of campaign, and one of the main things they were accusing foreigners of was "spreading AIDS".  Even here in the New York, I've had an apparently sophisticated and sane gay man become hysterical when I told him that I had HIV.  If spreading the idea that "it's no worse than diabetes" can combat this kind of thing, then by all means bring it on.

In my opinion it is a lose-lose situation, Nestor. 

When people relax too much about HIV then it becomes necessary to create a thread like the one that Tim had to open [outlining some of more scary and serious things that this bug, if untreated, can bring about].   When I hear from some people that AIDS is no longer a problem 'cause you can just "pop a pill and things are peachy" it really makes my blood boil (especially since I have heard this from some young, naive, self-deluded gay fellas who are probably getting exposed to it).

On the other hand, when ignorance around the virus still makes some folks (usually those in a lower risk group) to believe that you can still catch HIV from a doorknob or a massage, or that there are evil HIVers out there "infecting innocent people on purpose" then you realise that we are still in the dark ages when it comes to education around this subject.

Not sure where the answer can be found.  I still believe that a somewhat grim picture needs to be painted around this virus, not particularly around life-span or the difficulties of treatment (we know well things are way better than just a decade ago), but around prevention and around avoidance of treatment.

Just me twopence.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline Etay1207

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2010, 06:11:54 AM »
Nestor, the one who is dying has been on meds for several years. The one with the constant infections is not on meds. His numbers remained "good". Tcells 500-600 VL <1000. He is a hemophiliac though and takes factor 8.
POZ since 1999
1/07 tcells: 530 vl: 72,922 7/07 tcells: 542 vl: 26,577
9/08 tcells: 339 vl: 56,120  7/09 tcells: 267 vl: 663,160
11/09 tcells: 71 vl: 498,670 2/10 tcells: 52 vl: 322,000
 no meds and feeling great!

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2010, 06:23:47 AM »
Nestor, the one who is dying has been on meds for several years. The one with the constant infections is not on meds. His numbers remained "good". Tcells 500-600 VL <1000. He is a hemophiliac though and takes factor 8.
I was a LTNP for 21 years my numbers crashed and ended up in the hospital for over a month and my CD4s was 1400 and my VL never got over 4500 in those 21 years. On admission to the hospital my CD4s were 52 5% VL was around 10,000. AIDS diagnosis with an OI.

Online Dachshund

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2010, 06:40:28 AM »
I'm so old school, I still say I have GRID.

Offline Nestor

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2010, 07:07:11 AM »
Quote
I was a LTNP for 21 years my numbers crashed and ended up in the hospital for over a month and my CD4s was 1400 and my VL never got over 4500 in those 21 years. On admission to the hospital my CD4s were 52 5% VL was around 10,000. AIDS diagnosis with an OI.

That's terrible!  Do you mean that 1400 was your last CD4 count before the crash?  If so, how much time passed between it and the 52?  Or was that the average over the 21 years? 

Someone else I've met online had a similar case: an OI despite a tiny VL.  I'm really confused by that.
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2010, 07:47:21 AM »
That's terrible!  Do you mean that 1400 was your last CD4 count before the crash?  If so, how much time passed between it and the 52?  Or was that the average over the 21 years? 

Someone else I've met online had a similar case: an OI despite a tiny VL.  I'm really confused by that.
3 months inbetween labs.

Offline Etay1207

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2010, 08:10:51 AM »
RapidRod, you lost 1350 tcells in 3 months! What OI did you have?  I probably read ur story in another post but don't remember it.
POZ since 1999
1/07 tcells: 530 vl: 72,922 7/07 tcells: 542 vl: 26,577
9/08 tcells: 339 vl: 56,120  7/09 tcells: 267 vl: 663,160
11/09 tcells: 71 vl: 498,670 2/10 tcells: 52 vl: 322,000
 no meds and feeling great!

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2010, 08:13:09 AM »
RapidRod, you lost 1350 tcells in 3 months! What OI did you have?  I probably read ur story in another post but don't remember it.
Disseminated Histoplasmosis and I still have it.

Offline Etay1207

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2010, 08:25:32 AM »
I'm assuming you are on meds now. What combo are you on and what r ur numbers now? Will you've in Vegas in Aug?
POZ since 1999
1/07 tcells: 530 vl: 72,922 7/07 tcells: 542 vl: 26,577
9/08 tcells: 339 vl: 56,120  7/09 tcells: 267 vl: 663,160
11/09 tcells: 71 vl: 498,670 2/10 tcells: 52 vl: 322,000
 no meds and feeling great!

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #44 on: March 09, 2010, 08:36:21 AM »
I'm assuming you are on meds now. What combo are you on and what r ur numbers now? Will you've in Vegas in Aug?
HIV meds.- Atripla cd4 225 7% vl undetectable. Recently DX from Bactrum. Not sure if I will be in Vegas or not. I work pt in a morgue and for a funeral home and it depends on others vacations. Histo Meds are 400 mg Itraconazole daily will know next week if I have to fight the insurance to go back on Noxafil.

Offline Etay1207

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #45 on: March 09, 2010, 09:03:59 AM »
My doctor prescribed bactrim to me because my tcells are so low. Were you taking anything when you got sick? What does DX mean?
POZ since 1999
1/07 tcells: 530 vl: 72,922 7/07 tcells: 542 vl: 26,577
9/08 tcells: 339 vl: 56,120  7/09 tcells: 267 vl: 663,160
11/09 tcells: 71 vl: 498,670 2/10 tcells: 52 vl: 322,000
 no meds and feeling great!

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #46 on: March 09, 2010, 09:19:09 AM »
My doctor prescribed bactrim to me because my tcells are so low. Were you taking anything when you got sick? What does DX mean?
DX=discontinued "after being on it for five years." No I wasn't on meds because CD4s were within the normal range. Bactrim helps prevent PCP but you not being on meds puts you in danger or a host of other OI's. Etay you really should think about starting meds. If you have money concerns your ASO or your ID clinic counselor can help with that. You donít want an OI of any kind and I urge you to start treatment.

Offline Etay1207

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #47 on: March 09, 2010, 09:30:53 AM »
Thanks for sharing your story with me.
POZ since 1999
1/07 tcells: 530 vl: 72,922 7/07 tcells: 542 vl: 26,577
9/08 tcells: 339 vl: 56,120  7/09 tcells: 267 vl: 663,160
11/09 tcells: 71 vl: 498,670 2/10 tcells: 52 vl: 322,000
 no meds and feeling great!

Offline David_CA

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #48 on: March 09, 2010, 10:27:44 AM »
My CD4's were in the upper 200's when I had PCP and thrush.  I was told that I had AIDS then.  My understanding is that it indicates an immune system that does not function enough on its own to prevent OI's.  Personally, I don't mind saying I have AIDS except to family and potential sex partners, although I'm sure that wouldn't bother many guys. 
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #49 on: March 09, 2010, 10:30:31 AM »
Really?  I know enough guys that would zip up and run home with their tail between their legs if you disclosed that it makes me not want to say.  Not that Hellraiser has been getting any lately.  Why is he speaking of himself in the third person?  I have no idea.

Offline David_CA

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #50 on: March 09, 2010, 10:41:35 AM »
Really?  I know enough guys that would zip up and run home with their tail between their legs if you disclosed that it makes me not want to say.  Not that Hellraiser has been getting any lately.  Why is he speaking of himself in the third person?  I have no idea.

For sure it would turn off most guys, but if I'm attracted to a guy who tells me he has AIDS (but goes on to elaborate that he doesn't currently have any OI's, etc), I'm good with it.  I'm always somewhat ironically amused that more guys bring up that they're HIV+ to me pre-sex now than when I was negative.  In fact, I don't remember anybody ever talking to me about being HIV+ before my diagnosis.  In the past, I've said that some people have HIV-dar.  It's like we can tell others are also HIV+.  Of course, like gaydar, it's not 100% accurate. 
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #51 on: March 09, 2010, 10:43:43 AM »
I'm so old school, I still say I have GRID.

Gotcha beat, I painted a big red X on my front door.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #52 on: March 09, 2010, 10:52:03 AM »
Gotcha beat, I painted a big red X on my front door.
Tom I thought you had the biohazard decal on the front door.  ;)  I know we did have some forum members that had the biohazard tattoo on them.

Offline leatherman

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #53 on: March 09, 2010, 11:01:10 AM »
I know we did have some forum members that had the biohazard tattoo on them.
I love all my tats, especially my biohaz!
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #54 on: March 09, 2010, 11:06:04 AM »
I love all my tats, especially my biohaz!

ROFL, another one.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #55 on: March 09, 2010, 11:19:31 AM »
I love all my tats, especially my biohaz!


I have 3 of them....  my first ID doc was examining me one day and asked why I did it.  I just gave her a sheepish smile and she gave me a script for Paxil...lol
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline blackwingbear

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    • THE DARK MIND OF BLACKWINGBEAR
Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #56 on: March 09, 2010, 08:18:57 PM »
I love all my tats, especially my biohaz!

I've thought about getting one of those also...
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline blackwingbear

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    • THE DARK MIND OF BLACKWINGBEAR
Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #57 on: March 09, 2010, 08:20:51 PM »
For sure it would turn off most guys, but if I'm attracted to a guy who tells me he has AIDS

I am too. Don't know whether it's a matter of I appreciate the honesty or that I feel a kinship to them.
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline Nestor

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #58 on: March 09, 2010, 09:40:22 PM »
RR,

Thank you again for sharing your experience with us.

Quote
No I wasn't on meds because CD4s were within the normal range.
 

Indeed, your CD4s were well beyond "normal range"--I think there are only a handful of people here, even ones who are on meds, who have CD4s above a thousand. 

Is there a lesson that we should draw from your experience?  You were doing everything right--getting your labs done every three months, as is recommended.  You had incredibly excellent numbers.  So what lesson, if any, should we learn?  That you should have predicted the sudden crash and the OI and started meds with a CD4 of 1400?  That even someone with a CD4 of 1400 should be on HAART? 

I talked about this with my doctor about a year ago.  I have various plans of spending a lot of time backpacking, and even joining the Peace Corps where I would be in some remote place for two years.  Would it be okay to go that long without having labs done?  She said that most people decline slowly and gradually and that as my numbers hadn't even begun to decline, the chances of my descending into what used to be called "full-blown AIDS" in the next couple of years would be quite slim.  Your case--and a couple of others like it--are a scary reminder of the exceptions to that rule. 

On a broader level, it makes the workings of the virus seem even more mysterious.  Does the virus spend 21 years trying to figure out how to attack a strong immune system and then, one day, finally hit upon the "right" way? 
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #59 on: March 09, 2010, 09:41:05 PM »
Nonepidemic GayĖRelated Kaposi Sarcoma

Several reports documented KS in homosexual men who persistently had no evidence of HIV infection. These patients had an indolent and cutaneous form of the disease, which caused new lesions to appear every few years. Lesions occur most commonly on the extremities and genitalia but can occur anywhere on the skin.[1] These cases may indicate the presence of causal factors other than HIV that homosexual men may be exposed to because of their lifestyle.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #60 on: March 09, 2010, 09:49:56 PM »
Nonepidemic GayĖRelated Kaposi Sarcoma

Several reports documented KS in homosexual men who persistently had no evidence of HIV infection. These patients had an indolent and cutaneous form of the disease, which caused new lesions to appear every few years. Lesions occur most commonly on the extremities and genitalia but can occur anywhere on the skin.[1] These cases may indicate the presence of causal factors other than HIV that homosexual men may be exposed to because of their lifestyle.

You got a reference for this, Margaret?

MtD

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #61 on: March 09, 2010, 09:57:19 PM »
So what lesson, if any, should we learn? 

The lesson is that shit happens that's beyond your control.  Embrace it.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #62 on: March 09, 2010, 09:57:43 PM »
RR,

Thank you again for sharing your experience with us.
 

Indeed, your CD4s were well beyond "normal range"--I think there are only a handful of people here, even ones who are on meds, who have CD4s above a thousand. 

Is there a lesson that we should draw from your experience?  You were doing everything right--getting your labs done every three months, as is recommended.  You had incredibly excellent numbers.  So what lesson, if any, should we learn?  That you should have predicted the sudden crash and the OI and started meds with a CD4 of 1400?  That even someone with a CD4 of 1400 should be on HAART? 

I talked about this with my doctor about a year ago.  I have various plans of spending a lot of time backpacking, and even joining the Peace Corps where I would be in some remote place for two years.  Would it be okay to go that long without having labs done?  She said that most people decline slowly and gradually and that as my numbers hadn't even begun to decline, the chances of my descending into what used to be called "full-blown AIDS" in the next couple of years would be quite slim.  Your case--and a couple of others like it--are a scary reminder of the exceptions to that rule. 

On a broader level, it makes the workings of the virus seem even more mysterious.  Does the virus spend 21 years trying to figure out how to attack a strong immune system and then, one day, finally hit upon the "right" way? 
I had my labs every three months. I started not feeling well about a month after my last lab. Cause of it crashing is unknown. Ruled as a fluke..

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #63 on: March 09, 2010, 10:02:45 PM »
You got a reference for this, Margaret?

MtD

Sorry I'm getting tired, this is from the other thread about KS.  I found it interesting and meant to put it into that thread.  Anyway I had never heard of KS occuring specifically in gay men without HIV and it was the "Epidemic" version which is supposed to be specific to people with HIV.  It sort of makes sense in this thread but not really.

Offline Nestor

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  • What we love, we shall grow to resemble.
Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #64 on: March 09, 2010, 10:04:08 PM »
Quote
Nestor, the one who is dying has been on meds for several years. The one with the constant infections is not on meds. His numbers remained "good". Tcells 500-600 VL <1000.

Etay, I am so sorry to hear about these friends.  Are you really sure that the first one is dying?  Why?  What does he have?  Is there a reason the meds have not worked in his case?  So many people have turned around.  I do not mean to pry,or to be insenstive to your suffering and that of your friend, but I think many of us hear this kind of thing and get terrified--there are still people dying with this disease that we have--and it would be of immense service to all of us to have as much of a context as possible in which to evaluate information of this sort.  

Quote
Several reports documented KS in homosexual men who persistently had no evidence of HIV infection. These patients had an indolent and cutaneous form of the disease, which caused new lesions to appear every few years. Lesions occur most commonly on the extremities and genitalia but can occur anywhere on the skin.[1] These cases may indicate the presence of causal factors other than HIV that homosexual men may be exposed to because of their lifestyle.

Hellraiser, where is that information from?  I'm not sure where that fits in the context of this discussion, but it sure is the "icing on the cake" of this growing series of surprises in this thread!

Now, every time I think that the situation could not get murkier, it goes and gets murkier.  Every rule I thought existed seems to be turned upside down.  Here we have someone with 50 T-cells who appears to be healthy, someone who had 1400 T-cells and was in hospital with an OI within three months, someone on the life-saving meds who is dying, and now KS showing up in people who do not have HIV--for I assume that "persistently had no evidence of HIV infection" means they tested negative repeatedly.  

I'm sure that I am not the only one here who gets uncomfortable every time the word "lifestyle" gets used in the context of discussions of homosexuality.  But what aspects of homosexual activity or lifestyle could cause KS independently of HIV?  
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #65 on: March 09, 2010, 10:10:49 PM »
What's the point of using the quote function if we can't tell who you're quoting?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Nestor

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #66 on: March 09, 2010, 10:11:14 PM »
Quote
I started not feeling well about a month after my last lab. Cause of it crashing is unknown. Ruled as a fluke..

Thanks again. I am interested in your story because I know of someone else with a similar experience.  And what he has in common with you is three things: the extremely long period of non-progression, the extremely low VL, and the extreme suddenness of the crash, when it came.  I wonder if they all go together somehow.  

Quote
The lesson is that shit happens that's beyond your control.  Embrace it.

I think we all learned that the day we found out we had HIV!  But I think there might be a few more lessons.  One--from RR's story and that of the other person I mentioned--is, if you do turn out to be a LTNP, and it's been about twenty years....be on guard.  
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline Nestor

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #67 on: March 09, 2010, 10:22:15 PM »
Quote
What's the point of using the quote function if we can't tell who you're quoting?

Miss P, every passage that I quoted was not only drawn from this very conversation but from the last few posts in it.  Nobody who has been following this conversation would have any trouble remembering things that had just been said right before my reply to them. 

But, just in case anyone does have such trouble, it seems that in every case where I used the quote function, I also addressed the quoted person, by name, either immediately before or immediately after the quote, as in

Quote
Etay, I am so sorry to hear about these friends.

and

Quote
Hellraiser, where is that information from?

and

Quote
RR,

Thank you again for sharing your experience with us.

and even

Quote
Miss P, every passage that I quoted...etc. etc.

right above.

So, in order to claim to be unable to "tell whom I'm quoting", one would have not only not to have been following the immediately preceding conversation, but also to overlook these consistent clues. 


Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #68 on: March 09, 2010, 10:29:57 PM »
That's terrible!  Do you mean that 1400 was your last CD4 count before the crash?  If so, how much time passed between it and the 52?  Or was that the average over the 21 years? 

Someone else I've met online had a similar case: an OI despite a tiny VL.  I'm really confused by that.

Oh dear -- I wonder who Nestor was quoting here.  Too bad he can't use the quote button.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #69 on: March 09, 2010, 10:35:47 PM »
Quote
Thanks again. I am interested in your story because I know of someone else with a similar experience.  And what he has in common with you is three things: the extremely long period of non-progression, the extremely low VL, and the extreme suddenness of the crash, when it came.  I wonder if they all go together somehow. 
ROFL, Nestor all I can say is it turned to AIDS pretty damn quick and I was to damn sick to care.

Offline Nestor

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #70 on: March 09, 2010, 11:25:13 PM »
Quote
Oh dear -- I wonder who Nestor was quoting here.  Too bad he can't use the quote button.

Miss P, the statement I quoted was seperated from mine quoting it by exactly one post that was half a line long.  The original quote from Rapid Rod, and my quoting of it, and the one intervening post, could all fit together in the same computer screen.  Someone reading through the thread at a normal pace would read both the original statement and my response to it in about thirty seconds.

In other words, one would have to have the attention span of a moth or the short-term memory of an amoeba to have to "wonder whom Nestor was quoting there." 

Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #71 on: March 09, 2010, 11:26:20 PM »
In other words, one would have to have the attention span of a moth or the short-term memory of an amoeba to have to "wonder whom Nestor was quoting there." 

Nothing some flagyl won't fix. ;)

MtD

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #72 on: March 09, 2010, 11:33:29 PM »
What's up with amoebas tonight?
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline edfu

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #73 on: March 10, 2010, 08:15:49 AM »
You got a reference for this, Margaret?
MtD

I'm not Margaret or Hellraiser, but will this do, Louise?:

Kien AE, Saltzman BR, Cao YZ, et al.: Kaposi's sarcoma in HIV-negative homosexual men. Lancet 335 (8682): 168-9, 1990.  [PUBMED Abstract

It comes from the U.S. National Cancer Institute:

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/treatment/kaposis/HealthProfessional/page2#Section_13

P.S.  I forgot about this one:

http://www.aidsmap.com/en/news/999D3BD3-DA40-4442-B307-808F3AA9596D.asp
« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 09:10:44 AM by edfu »
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline camille07

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #74 on: March 10, 2010, 08:27:30 AM »
In January of 2009 I had a cd4 of 184 with a cd4% of 26.  I was  into treatment, since the fall,  and the doc was baffled?  My numbers were increasing exponentially, or at least doubling up until that point.  But here's the catch; I was on a trial and the lab for the trial was different from the in-house lab at the clinic.  What the trial nurses found is that the trial lab was letting the specimens sit too long and the blood was dying off.  So, alot of patients had this unusual drop in cd4 numbers and percentage. (There's a technical term for this but I'm still on my first cup of coffee)  So now, am I considered having Aids because of a glitch by the lab?  I know it's only a label but I'm wondering if that's the situation.

Any thoughts?

Offline David_CA

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #75 on: March 10, 2010, 09:22:54 AM »
Miss P, the statement I quoted was seperated from mine quoting it by exactly one post that was half a line long.  The original quote from Rapid Rod, and my quoting of it, and the one intervening post, could all fit together in the same computer screen.  Someone reading through the thread at a normal pace would read both the original statement and my response to it in about thirty seconds.

In other words, one would have to have the attention span of a moth or the short-term memory of an amoeba to have to "wonder whom Nestor was quoting there." 

Nestor, some of us don't re-read entire threads ('reading through') every time we check back on them.  Sometimes, a few days have lapsed between reading them.  I also have a hard time following some of what you've quoted, and I have a pretty damned good attention span and a good memory... ADD and all!  If you'll use the 'insert quote' link on the posts you want to add to your posts, you can edit out the 'irrelevant' information there.  Seriously, it makes things easier to follow, that's all.
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #76 on: March 10, 2010, 10:00:04 AM »
...  Someone reading through the thread at a normal pace would read both the original statement and my response to it in about thirty seconds.

In other words, one would have to have the attention span of a moth or the short-term memory of an amoeba to have to "wonder whom Nestor was quoting there." 

Ditto David_NC.

And...my tolerance for the fact that the automatically quoted material is in even smaller print on a (lousy) dark purple background is only as a trade-off for easy reference to whence / whom / when the quote.    If you are going to strip off all the useful parts, for pity's sake, make it BIG.

A


"BIG is GOOD"    ;)
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline blackwingbear

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #77 on: March 10, 2010, 10:22:38 AM »
In January of 2009 I had a cd4 of 184 with a cd4% of 26.  I was  into treatment, since the fall,  and the doc was baffled?  My numbers were increasing exponentially, or at least doubling up until that point.  But here's the catch; I was on a trial and the lab for the trial was different from the in-house lab at the clinic.  What the trial nurses found is that the trial lab was letting the specimens sit too long and the blood was dying off.  So, alot of patients had this unusual drop in cd4 numbers and percentage. (There's a technical term for this but I'm still on my first cup of coffee)  So now, am I considered having Aids because of a glitch by the lab?  I know it's only a label but I'm wondering if that's the situation.

Any thoughts?

WOW. Interesting situation.... Considering the lack of much difference between the two states and the medical advantages of being classified as AIDS, I would say milk-it if possible. However, I don't know if a lab-technician's fuck-up would classify you as such.
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #78 on: March 10, 2010, 02:17:55 PM »
I'm not Margaret or Hellraiser, but will this do, Louise?:

Kien AE, Saltzman BR, Cao YZ, et al.: Kaposi's sarcoma in HIV-negative homosexual men. Lancet 335 (8682): 168-9, 1990.  [PUBMED Abstract

It comes from the U.S. National Cancer Institute:

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/treatment/kaposis/HealthProfessional/page2#Section_13

P.S.  I forgot about this one:

http://www.aidsmap.com/en/news/999D3BD3-DA40-4442-B307-808F3AA9596D.asp

Proves nothing. KS is known to occur in non-homosexual HIV negative populations too. Notably older men of Mediterranean and Ashkenazi Jewish backgrounds.

MtD

Offline edfu

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #79 on: March 10, 2010, 04:46:19 PM »
I prefer to believe the scientists and doctors who researched and wrote the two studies about gay men who do not correspond to the classic or HIV parameters, including Dr. Alvin Friedman-Kien--lead author of the "Lancet" study, the foremost KS expert in the U.S.--and the NIH's Cancer Institute.  I'm also convinced by my Irish HIV-negative friend with KS and by anecdotal reports from my NYC HIV dermatologist, an associate of Dr. Friedman-Kien's at NYU Medical Center, who also reports an increase in HIV-negative gay men outside the classic parameters with KS in recent years.   
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #80 on: March 10, 2010, 05:09:33 PM »
I prefer to believe the scientists and doctors who researched and wrote the two studies about gay men who do not correspond to the classic or HIV parameters, including Dr. Alvin Friedman-Kien--lead author of the "Lancet" study, the foremost KS expert in the U.S.--and the NIH's Cancer Institute.  I'm also convinced by my Irish HIV-negative friend with KS and by anecdotal reports from my NYC HIV dermatologist, an associate of Dr. Friedman-Kien's at NYU Medical Center, who also reports an increase in HIV-negative gay men outside the classic parameters with KS in recent years.   

Yeah well you believe whatever you want to believe Eddie. I would point out however that "the plural of anecdote is not data".

I think we might be discussing this in the wrong thread. Hellraiser had an attack of the vapours yesterday and misposted about KS in this thread.

MtD

Offline edfu

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #81 on: March 10, 2010, 05:57:29 PM »
You're right...this is in the wrong thread.  I was going to try to segue this over to the current "Kaposis [sic] sarcoma" thread, where I've already posted once today, but I haven't figured out a graceful way to do it.  It's become quite jumbled together here now. 

My last words here, however, must be to point out that I know full well the difference between data and anecdote.  The two studies I referenced, from "The Lancet" and "AIDS," contain data.  You asked Hellraiser for references, and I provided them.  The anecdotal material I added simply as lagniappe.
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline camille07

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #82 on: March 11, 2010, 06:52:04 AM »
Thanks Blackvingbear.  I would be interested to  get a definitive answer from my doctor regarding this or hear some other thoughts regarding the situation.

Hugs,

Camms

Offline edfu

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #83 on: March 11, 2010, 11:46:37 AM »
A laboratory mistake is an error, and any diagnosis based on that error is invalid. 
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline blackwingbear

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #84 on: March 11, 2010, 01:48:07 PM »
A laboratory mistake is an error, and any diagnosis based on that error is invalid. 

True, but the scientific community seems to be willing to follow errors on this one - once you are diagnosed as having A.I.D.S., no matter how healthy you are or what condition your system is in, the diagnosis sticks.
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline jcelvis

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #85 on: March 13, 2010, 01:07:49 AM »
 

I talked about this with my doctor about a year ago.  I have various plans of spending a lot of time backpacking, and even joining the Peace Corps where I would be in some remote place for two years.  Would it be okay to go that long without having labs done?  She said that most people decline slowly and gradually and that as my numbers hadn't even begun to decline, the chances of my descending into what used to be called "full-blown AIDS" in the next couple of years would be quite slim.  Your case--and a couple of others like it--are a scary reminder of the exceptions to that rule. 


Good luck getting into the peace corp with an HIV + status, up until 2008 the peace corp kicked volunteers out of the program when they found out they were positive, luckily the ACLU stepped in but there issue only dealt with people who found out they were positive once they started in the program. They may not deny your application on grounds of being HIV +, but they will find another way not to accept you. The peace corp doesn't want to be responsible for your medical care.
Change the way you view the world, and the world around you changes.

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #86 on: March 13, 2010, 09:20:56 AM »
True, but the scientific community seems to be willing to follow errors on this one - once you are diagnosed as having A.I.D.S., no matter how healthy you are or what condition your system is in, the diagnosis sticks.

That's not necessarily following an error.  There have been a number of studies linking the risk of some conditions to the lowest CD4 count for a patient -- google "CD4 nadir".  People who have had CD4 counts below 200 are more likely to have problems, even after the CD4 count recovers.

That's different from a lab error in measuring the CD4 count.
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline edfu

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #87 on: March 13, 2010, 09:32:42 AM »
People who have had CD4 counts below 200 are more likely to have problems, even after the CD4 count recovers.

Thanks for explaining that.

« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 09:36:38 AM by edfu »
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline blackwingbear

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #88 on: March 13, 2010, 03:26:19 PM »
That's not necessarily following an error.  There have been a number of studies linking the risk of some conditions to the lowest CD4 count for a patient -- google "CD4 nadir".  People who have had CD4 counts below 200 are more likely to have problems, even after the CD4 count recovers.

So, in a way, once you are sick you are forever viewed as sick even if you are healthy?
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline edfu

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #89 on: March 13, 2010, 03:37:01 PM »
What part of "more likely to have problems" don't you understand?
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline blackwingbear

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #90 on: March 13, 2010, 04:03:54 PM »
What part of "more likely to have problems" don't you understand?

No, I understand... Guess I was simply in denial since I've had my levels that low & like to think I'm in "tip-top" perfect health now.
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline edfu

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #91 on: March 13, 2010, 04:09:46 PM »
I hope both you and I stay that way, but one never knows.... 
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #92 on: March 13, 2010, 04:24:40 PM »
So, in a way, once you are sick you are forever viewed as sick even if you are healthy?

No, I understand... Guess I was simply in denial since I've had my levels that low & like to think I'm in "tip-top" perfect health now.

Well ... it's hard to live in a probabalistic world, but it would appear that your risk of bad events if you are in tip top shape but recovered from AIDS is higher than if you are in tip top shape but always kept your tcell counts at higher levels.  

It's still a lot better to have recovered than not.  In fact if you can get to and keep a tcell count over 500, a recent European study suggests you will have almost as good life chances as the average member of the population. Now that is not as good as the life chances of the part of the population that is in the best shape, but it is certainly worth striving for.  

So don't be in denial; denial is dangerous and you should be alert to the special risks you face as someone who had very low tcell counts.  But don't give up trying to improve your health either.  You have the ability to control a lot of your life outcomes if you choose to.

A
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline blackwingbear

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #93 on: March 13, 2010, 06:19:43 PM »
It's still a lot better to have recovered than not.  In fact if you can get to and keep a tcell count over 500, a recent European study suggests you will have almost as good life chances as the average member of the population. Now that is not as good as the life chances of the part of the population that is in the best shape, but it is certainly worth striving for.

That's what I'm striving for - a lil' more reassuring being above 500. Kinda funny - it took me being deathly-ill to start taking care of myself. I joked one time with the local AIDS resource director that "it took death to make me start living."
It's all a sham. Politics is a big game, same as the media - and same as religion. The point is to distract & control. If we're looking at what they tell us is the "big issue", we're not looking at what they are doing. In time, there will be different causes and different minorities to pick-on. All in the name of keeping the system going, and the people distracted.

Offline leatherman

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #94 on: March 13, 2010, 07:44:58 PM »
I joked one time with the local AIDS resource director that "it took death to make me start living."
and the congregation answers back, "amen". ;)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Okealyshire

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #95 on: March 13, 2010, 10:12:42 PM »
and the congregation answers back, "amen". ;)

Indeed.

Offline brian davis

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #96 on: March 15, 2010, 03:14:21 AM »
Well my clinic says once aids always aids . I say its just a bunch of symantic bullshit personally . SAME BUG either way . Anyway i just bought a screen printing machine and will be printing Tshirts that say HIV and PROUD on the front then on the back i will put a little slogan i made up right after i hit AIDS .

HIV
you cant see it
you cant tell it
and it CAN HAPPEN TO YOU

Offline edfu

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #97 on: March 15, 2010, 04:22:27 AM »
Hope your printing machine has apostrophes:  can't.  ;D
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline brian davis

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #98 on: March 15, 2010, 04:25:25 AM »
well im a bit more worried about the message than exact and proper english dude

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #99 on: March 15, 2010, 04:29:46 AM »
well im a bit more worried about the message than exact and proper english dude

Don't pay Edfu no mind Brian. That's just his way. :)

MtD

Offline Nestor

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #100 on: March 25, 2010, 06:34:28 PM »
Good luck getting into the peace corp with an HIV + status, up until 2008 the peace corp kicked volunteers out of the program when they found out they were positive, luckily the ACLU stepped in but there issue only dealt with people who found out they were positive once they started in the program. They may not deny your application on grounds of being HIV +, but they will find another way not to accept you. The peace corp doesn't want to be responsible for your medical care.

Alas, I know all about it.  They still have HIV as one of the conditions for which they will not normally be able to place people.  However I am still applying on the grounds that it can't hurt to try.  Since I currently have no medical care for them to be responsible for, and since they now have had a couple of positive volunteers in the circumstances you describe and who have done rather well, I am thinking it may not be impossible after all. 
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #101 on: March 25, 2010, 07:09:37 PM »
Sorry Nestor, like the military they're not going to let you in based on your positive status.

Offline Etay1207

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #102 on: March 25, 2010, 08:23:06 PM »
I always say that I have AIDS.
POZ since 1999
1/07 tcells: 530 vl: 72,922 7/07 tcells: 542 vl: 26,577
9/08 tcells: 339 vl: 56,120  7/09 tcells: 267 vl: 663,160
11/09 tcells: 71 vl: 498,670 2/10 tcells: 52 vl: 322,000
 no meds and feeling great!

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #103 on: March 25, 2010, 08:52:39 PM »
I always say that I have AIDS.

That's because you do have AIDS.

MtD

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #104 on: March 25, 2010, 08:55:50 PM »
That's because you do have AIDS.

MtD

Now now, you know that there's Quiet AIDS and then there's Fierce AIDS.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Jeffreyj

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #105 on: March 25, 2010, 09:44:54 PM »
I have WHATEVER for 25 years and I'm still alive. Call it what you want.

I call it life.   Go me!
Positive since 1985

Offline spock

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Re: Aids vs. HIV
« Reply #106 on: December 29, 2010, 11:53:53 AM »
Exactly, we may argue the semantics of the difference between HIV+ and AIDS but in the outside world HIV+ means AIDS to 99.9% of the people. We simply have to manage the perceptions to the best of our abilities.

 


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