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Author Topic: i really dont need this now !  (Read 8452 times)

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Offline sensual1973

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i really dont need this now !
« on: February 19, 2010, 03:51:39 AM »
Ok am pissed and very angry,need to vent it out,i have had enough of the same issue,i have'nt been able to sleep properly for the past 5 days.
2 weeks ago i ended up in a sex club,i met one guy and we did it bareback (he was the insertive and he came insdie). i for sure was worried later on but whats done was done.Now,2 weeks later i am sweating excessively especially at night where i had to dry up and go to bed again and so on-kind of reminded me of when i first seroconverted but this one is less sever.i have no fever,no fatigue,no swollen glands,no discahrges....etc.

can someone tell me whats that all about ?,Hep or Re-Infection ?, (thats what am most worried about,as i did get some blood down there when we were finished ) .

i would really like to hear some positive feedback about the possibilies i could be facing,lets not get into safe sex education please.

sensual

God grant me the serenity to accept the things i can not change.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2010, 03:55:27 AM »
Many STIs are asymptomatic. You should request a full screen at your local sexual health clinic or wherever you get your services.

You should also be aware that the guy who fucked you is at risk of HIV infection. True, it's his responsibility, but if you know who he is you might wanna mention it to him.

Or not. It's your call.

MtD

Offline Ann

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2010, 04:03:23 AM »
Sen,

You do indeed need to test for all STIs including hep B and C. That's the chance you take when you eschew condom usage with strangers. You don't want that lecture, but tough, that's how it goes.

If you're in the first year or so of your hiv infection, it could indeed be reinfection as well. If your hiv infection is more established, reinfection is unlikely.

You really need to wise up and start using condoms with people you hook up with in sex clubs.


Oh, and furthermore, if you didn't bother to tell this guy your status, then you are helping to perpetuate the stereotype we face where people assume that we don't give a damn who we infect. He, as a top, is not immune to your virus. Let's hope you didn't pass it on to him.

Ann
« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 04:05:35 AM by Ann »
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline sensual1973

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2010, 04:13:53 AM »
Ann
But would hep B/C show if i get an STI screening 2-3 weeks later ?
been poz for 10 years and un detectable (on meds) am not new.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things i can not change.

Offline Ann

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2010, 04:36:09 AM »
Hep B or C might show that early, but you need to test out to at least three months for a conclusive negative. When you're poz, sometimes it can take a little longer.

With a long-standing hiv infection and on meds, hiv reinfection is not going to be a problem for you.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2010, 04:43:08 AM »
Ann is spot on about the Hepatitis stuff.

Hepatitis B (HBV) is the big issue here. HBV testing can be quite complicated, particularly in HIV positive people, and you should talk to your service provider about the details.

What I can tell you is that the window period (aka the equivalence period) for HBV is anywhere between 45 days and 160 days with the average sitting at about 100 days - though that can be longer in HIV positive folk.

They may only want to request HBV surface antigen and antibody tests. You should insist they request HBV core antigen and antibody assays too.

Whilst I'm about the matter you should also request a syphilis serology. The window period for syphilis is around 3 months as well. Be sure they order both a TPHA and an RPR test at the appropriate time.

MtD

Offline Ann

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2010, 05:24:44 AM »
By the way, Sen, if you're hbv negative, you should talk to your doctor about getting vaccinated. Anyone who is hiv positive should be vaccinated against hbv, particularly if you have the odd lapse of reason and go barebacking in sex clubs.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mecch

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2010, 05:27:14 AM »
Ok am pissed and very angry,need to vent it out,i have had enough of the same issue,i have'nt been able to sleep properly for the past 5 days.
2 weeks ago i ended up in a sex club,i met one guy and we did it bareback

Besides all the feedback you are getting about having to be screened for STDs,

you could have caught a flu.

You could be having a psychosomatic expression of your ambivalence about your sex choices.  Reading between the lines of your post, that's the vibe I get.  Conflict between desires and actions versus security and peace of mind.

"Am I infected" threads are mostly this sort of thing, so why should HIV+ people be exempt.  

I know HIV+ c*m dumps and serial hard fisters and etc etc and some of them are perfectly at ease with their choices and most of them accept accountability for the risks and some of them check on schedule for STDs and some don't.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2010, 10:33:17 AM »
Re: informing the other guy, I really don't think anyone who goes around bareback f****** in a sex club in this day and age, whether top or bottom, needs any warnings about possible HIV infection. It kinda goes without saying, dontcha think?

Offline Ann

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2010, 10:41:02 AM »
Re: informing the other guy, I really don't think anyone who goes around bareback f****** in a sex club in this day and age, whether top or bottom, needs any warnings about possible HIV infection. It kinda goes without saying, dontcha think?

When I spoke of informing the guy, I meant before they barebacked. It's one thing to not disclose your status if you're using condoms, but it just isn't right to not disclose if you're going to bareback - undetectable bottom or not.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2010, 10:45:22 AM »
When I spoke of informing the guy, I meant before they barebacked. It's one thing to not disclose your status if you're using condoms, but it just isn't right to not disclose if you're going to bareback - undetectable bottom or not.

Yes, that would make more sense (although the guy could also have asked if he was concerned). I think Matty had said something about informing the guy now, after the fact. I'm all for disclosure but it should be very obvious to all and sundry that if you bareback at all with strangers, let alone at a sex club, you are possibly going to get any number of STDs, including HIV.

Offline Ann

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2010, 11:05:42 AM »
Yes, that would make more sense (although the guy could also have asked if he was concerned). I think Matty had said something about informing the guy now, after the fact. I'm all for disclosure but it should be very obvious to all and sundry that if you bareback at all with strangers, let alone at a sex club, you are possibly going to get any number of STDs, including HIV.

You'd think it would be obvious, but going by what I've read on this forum and other web sites, there are some hiv negative people who seem to be of the mindset that if a person doesn't mention hiv or want to bother with condoms, then they must be be negative too.

Personally, I just couldn't bareback with someone who was not aware of my hiv status. No matter how drunk or whatever. The desire to not infect someone else is just too strong in me. And the fact that I have no problem with disclosure probably helps too.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline aztecan

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2010, 11:27:40 AM »
Just an addition to the screening stuff:

If you find yourself with syphilis, be aware the "usual dose" of penicillin may not be enough to take care of it. HIV and Syphilis go together like turkey and gravy.

It may take multiple shots and, if it goes too long without resolving, standard of care is to have a lumbar puncture to ascertain whether syphilis has infiltrated the central nervous system. No, I am not talking years here. HIV helps syphilis do its thing much more quickly. I have known people who developed neurosyphilis within a year.

If the lumbar puncture reveals the presence of syphilis in the spinal fluid, it would mean a week of hospital food and IV antibiotics.

This is not something with which to play around.

HUGS,

Mark
« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 11:29:34 AM by aztecan »
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2010, 04:29:32 PM »
Yes, that would make more sense (although the guy could also have asked if he was concerned). I think Matty had said something about informing the guy now, after the fact. I'm all for disclosure but it should be very obvious to all and sundry that if you bareback at all with strangers, let alone at a sex club, you are possibly going to get any number of STDs, including HIV.

You think? What I said is like 10 posts up:

You should also be aware that the guy who fucked you is at risk of HIV infection. True, it's his responsibility, but if you know who he is you might wanna mention it to him.

MtD

Offline sensual1973

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2010, 04:47:19 PM »
You think? What I said is like 10 posts up:

You should also be aware that the guy who fucked you is at risk of HIV infection. True, it's his responsibility, but if you know who he is you might wanna mention it to him.

MtD

do people ask for addresses and mobile numbers in dark rooms too ?
God grant me the serenity to accept the things i can not change.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2010, 04:52:37 PM »
do people ask for addresses and mobile numbers in dark rooms too ?

Yes they do. I gave my phone number to a fella under those circumstances just the other day. Quite a nice chap. Named Corey. Don't know his last name.

Whether you tell this rangy top or not is a matter for you. I'm merely pointing out that you were not the only one at risk of catching something during the transaction you descibe above.

But as I noted in my earlier offering, he's responsible for himself. Whatever you do Matty the Damned will sleep the sleep of the just.

Good luck with the STI screening.

MtD

Offline sensual1973

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2010, 04:54:39 PM »
hmm looks like am the one who got something in this case !
God grant me the serenity to accept the things i can not change.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2010, 05:07:08 PM »
hmm looks like am the one who got something in this case !

And you wouldn't find yourself in this predicament if you'd taken the time to ask that fella to rubber up.

It's a queer old world, eh? :)

MtD

Offline sensual1973

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2010, 05:23:12 PM »
c'est la vie
God grant me the serenity to accept the things i can not change.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2010, 05:28:51 PM »
sensual1973, I hate stating the obvious but considering your infamous "he licked the cum !!!" thread from just 3 weeks ago and considering that you've been diagnosed now since 2001 you really need to be a bit more up to date on these things if you're going to be so sexually active.  I never judge others on the amount of sex they have, as I'm totally pro-raunch, but there are ways to go about these things in a wise manner.  And IIRC you don't live in some filthy backwater Highlands district but you do live in London.

I'm going to go out on a limb and ask if a lot of this has to do with a now decades old discomfort of disclosing status before engaging in sex.  It's one thing to have that issue during your first year or so, but like I said you should be more comfortable with the situation.  I guess that's what concerns me more than anything, is the mental aspect I'm detecting.  The other stuff that has physical ramification can be (generally) sorted out with proper medical care.  The other stuff involves a lot more work on your part.

Anyway, if you want to talk about it now is the time to do so.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline mecch

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2010, 05:32:14 PM »
Um,
If the swiss say undetectable = not transmissable.  What would be the risk of HIV transmission from the bottom - sensual - to the top in this case.  I guess not 0 but extremely extremely unlikely?
Isn't the basic problem here other possible STDs?
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Ann

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2010, 05:36:01 PM »
c'est la vie


Yeah. I wonder if that lad will be saying the same if he ends up poz over this. OUR INFECTION SHOULD STOP WITH US.  Get it?

sensual1973, I hate stating the obvious but considering your infamous "he licked the cum !!!" thread from just 3 weeks ago and considering that you've been diagnosed now since 2001 you really need to be a bit more up to date on these things if you're going to be so sexually active.  


Damn, I missed that. Never for a minute thought it was the same person.

Sen, wow. Just wow.

Um,
If the swiss say undetectable = not transmissable.  What would be the risk of HIV transmission from the bottom - sensual - to the top in this case.  I guess not 0 but extremely extremely unlikely?
Isn't the basic problem here other possible STDs?


The Swiss study did not include anal intercourse. Regardless, it's only polite to disclose to a sex partner that you have a terminal, sexually transmitted infection before you bareback.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2010, 05:36:10 PM »
c'est la vie

Well not really.

You've been HIV positive for ten years, so it surprises me a little to note you haven't worked out that some actions have consequences.

You willingly copped a bare tusk up the runter and now you're racing around in circles bewailing your fate?

Hello vicious circle. :)

I get the feeling from your OP that your sex life is not entirely pleasing to you. Rather than thinking only about your own gratification, you might think about the person you're letting fuck you.

I'm not talking making an offer of life partnership, just some small considerations. It might make all the difference.

MtD

Offline mecch

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2010, 05:42:33 PM »
I agree with Matty and Ann. Its a question of integrity and reaping what you sow.  That's why I read your post differently above and recommended while an STD check is in order, that's mechanics.  Bigger question lies elsewhere.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline sensual1973

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2010, 06:28:09 PM »
Yeah. I wonder if that lad will be saying the same if he ends up poz over this. OUR INFECTION SHOULD STOP WITH US.  Get it?

WELL I ASSUME IF SOMEONES GOES AHEAD WITH BB IN LONDON SAUNA = HE IS HIV . doesnt need much thought or extra brain cells, DOET IT ?
God grant me the serenity to accept the things i can not change.

Offline Ann

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2010, 06:33:43 PM »

WELL I ASSUME IF SOMEONES GOES AHEAD WITH BB IN LONDON SAUNA = HE IS HIV . doesnt need much thought or extra brain cells, DOET IT ?


Yeah, well, actually...


You'd think it would be obvious, but going by what I've read on this forum and other web sites, there are some hiv negative people who seem to be of the mindset that if a person doesn't mention hiv or want to bother with condoms, then they must be be negative too.
 

I don't know what you expected here. When one of us disregards our responsibility to protect the people we fuck, that person is responsible for the times the general public paints us as pariahs who don't give a shit who we infect. That's the way it is, deal with it.

Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2010, 06:37:54 PM »
Sensual, there have been studies done in NYC, etc. where what you state doesn't hold water.  The pozzies assume fellow barebackers are also poz, but the neggie barebackers all assume that fellow barebackers are also neg, because they think any diagnosed pozzie would never have sex without a condom and endanger someone else's infection status.

That's how the world works and if you've lived in London for as long as you have you should probably already know this.   I assume that you're not 18.

So here's the deal -- if the idea of disclosing in a sex club situation unnerves you then you just insist on using a condom.  If you can't handle having sex with latex and have to do bareback to get off, then since you live in London you should have no difficulty locating other like minded gay poz men. Frankly you're being incredibly lazy and cavalier and I rather doubt that this is the first time.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 06:42:41 PM by Miss Philicia »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2010, 06:50:16 PM »
WELL I ASSUME IF SOMEONES GOES AHEAD WITH BB IN LONDON SAUNA = HE IS HIV . doesnt need much thought or extra brain cells, DOET IT ?

Well maybe he assumed you already had HBV.

Or syphilis.

Or gonorrhoea.

Or chlamydia.

Or anal herpes.

Or warts.

MtD

Online tednlou2

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2010, 10:45:49 PM »
I was just reading (reading too much) how an STD could cause our HIV to "flare out of control".  That is scary to me.  I also read so much conflicting info on the super-infection.  Many experts say usually only happens to recently infected people.  Others say it can happen at any time. 

Offline tommy246

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2010, 08:53:11 AM »
I think your behavoir is outragoeus  and disgraceful  you and anyone hiv pos has a duty to mankind and society to try and stop the spread of this virus i just cant believe anybody could be so immature and irresponsible .
jan 06 neg
dec 08 pos cd4 505 ,16%, 1,500vl
april 09 cd4 635 ,16%,60,000
july 09 ,cd4 545,17%,80,000
aug 09,hosptal 18days pneumonia cd190,225,000,15%
1 week later cd4 415 20%
nov 09 cd4 591 ,vl 59,000,14%,started atripla
dec 09  cd4 787, vl 266, 16%
march 2010  cd4 720 vl non detectable -20  20%
june 2010  cd4  680, 21%, ND

Offline sdguyloveslife

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2010, 03:51:49 PM »
I think your behavoir is outragoeus  and disgraceful  you and anyone hiv pos has a duty to mankind and society to try and stop the spread of this virus i just cant believe anybody could be so immature and irresponsible .

WTF?  Yikes!  Let he who is without sin cast the first stone!  WWJD? 

In my life experience, especially since becoming poz, I have learned that these kinds of statements come from within us because it's a "hard look in the mirror" that we've never taken to ourselves.  I'm guilty of it too - sometimes I notice when I'm being a "harsh critic" of someone else, it's usually some element of my own behavior or circumstances within me that I'm "not quite right with" that is motivating that sentiment. 

Tommy, look, even though Sensual doesn't fit "your picture" of moral character, it would be much more productive if you were willing to teach him a different way - rather then just toss out your judgment, throw your hands in the air and walk off...which is what you've done. 

Just because you've accepted your "duty" to stop the spread of HIV doesn't mean everyone has.  The "duty" didn't come packaged with the virus upon infection, it's something we develop.  Let's face it, some people become HIV infected through actions of self-loathing -- so, why would you think the virus would give a sudden "spike of caring" in us for mankind?  We're all in a different place -- so, do your duty to help show others the benefits of letting this virus stop with you instead of making others feel "less than" yourself because they haven't yet embraced YOUR "moral code." 
« Last Edit: February 20, 2010, 04:47:00 PM by sdguyloveslife »
Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2010, 04:00:42 PM »
Moral relativism FTW!

MtD

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2010, 02:16:37 AM »
I think your behavoir is outragoeus  and disgraceful  you and anyone hiv pos has a duty to mankind and society to try and stop the spread of this virus i just cant believe anybody could be so immature and irresponsible .

I can totally see where you're coming from on this.  However, I think anyone going to a sex club or meeting someone on manhunt or craigslist has to assume everyone is HIV+.  If someone is sticking their butt up to a glory hole, they must assume the guy sticking their junk through the hole is poz and that you may very well end up poz. 

Having said that, I know many young gay people who are naive and don't know enough about HIV.  I've known very young gay guys who felt pressured to have bb sex and weren't assertive about safety like an older person may be.   At 18, they just don't realize the consequences.  So, you're right that we should either tell our status or play protected at the very least.  I know when I was 17, 18, and even 20, I felt someone with HIV would tell me if they knew.  Or, I thought I could tell they had it.  I know at that age I thought all people with HIV were very thin and sick looking.  I thought it took years before an HIV+ person could pass the virus.  How ignorant I was.  This is why schools need to talk about HIV more.  I don't think it was ever discussed when I was in school.  We learned about pregnancy, but not HIV even once.  That may have changed, but from what I've read, it is still about the same.  This is why parents need to talk about it.   


Offline Ann

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2010, 06:49:04 AM »

I know when I was 17, 18, and even 20, I felt someone with HIV would tell me if they knew.  Or, I thought I could tell they had it.  I know at that age I thought all people with HIV were very thin and sick looking. 


You'd be surprised how many people think this way. And it's not just younger people either. We see this mindset all the time in the Am I forum. ALL THE TIME.

Here's some common comments over there:

He/she LOOKED CLEAN.

He/she LOOKED HEALTHY.

He/she would have TOLD ME if he/she had hiv.

And you see it all the time on hook-up sites. DDF, UB2. People who put stuff like that on their profiles think they've covered their bases and I rather doubt they bother to enquire further. And how many of them only THINK they're hiv free?

Recently, someone responded to one of Peter Staley's blogs with these words of wisdom:

""Stated" HIV status means nothing; everyone should be practising safer sex (most importantly meaning not bottoming raw) and not taking a trick's "word for it". Words don't protect you, safer sex does. In that case, your trick can be poz or neg."

This works for poz people as well as neg people. You don't necessarily have to disclose in these anonymous situations, but you DO have to use condoms. Condom usage when you don't know the other person's hiv status is NON-NEGOTIABLE.

Sen, I know you stated in your first post that you didn't want the safer sex lecture, but it goes hand in hand with the subject matter. I don't understand how you thought it could be avoided. It's like ignoring the elephant in the middle of the room while standing smack dab in the middle of the elephant's manure.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline sensual1973

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2010, 09:20:35 AM »
I think your behavoir is outragoeus  and disgraceful  you and anyone hiv pos has a duty to mankind and society to try and stop the spread of this virus i just cant believe anybody could be so immature and irresponsible .

if you have nothing good to say then dont instead of praising yourself and sounding like an id**t,you obviously are not contributing to my main question rather than advertising you moral codes which you should keep for yourself,and i dont want  YOU to tell ME how to behave/think.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things i can not change.

Offline tommy246

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2010, 09:57:25 AM »
if you have nothing good to say then dont instead of praising yourself and sounding like an id**t,you obviously are not contributing to my main question rather than advertising you moral codes which you should keep for yourself,and i dont want  YOU to tell ME how to behave/think.
Im not praising myself merely stating my opinion which i stand by 100% wether you like it or not the truth hurts sometimes.
jan 06 neg
dec 08 pos cd4 505 ,16%, 1,500vl
april 09 cd4 635 ,16%,60,000
july 09 ,cd4 545,17%,80,000
aug 09,hosptal 18days pneumonia cd190,225,000,15%
1 week later cd4 415 20%
nov 09 cd4 591 ,vl 59,000,14%,started atripla
dec 09  cd4 787, vl 266, 16%
march 2010  cd4 720 vl non detectable -20  20%
june 2010  cd4  680, 21%, ND

Offline tommy246

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2010, 09:59:41 AM »
You'd be surprised how many people think this way. And it's not just younger people either. We see this mindset all the time in the Am I forum. ALL THE TIME.

Here's some common comments over there:

He/she LOOKED CLEAN.

He/she LOOKED HEALTHY.

He/she would have TOLD ME if he/she had hiv.

And you see it all the time on hook-up sites. DDF, UB2. People who put stuff like that on their profiles think they've covered their bases and I rather doubt they bother to enquire further. And how many of them only THINK they're hiv free?

Recently, someone responded to one of Peter Staley's blogs with these words of wisdom:

""Stated" HIV status means nothing; everyone should be practising safer sex (most importantly meaning not bottoming raw) and not taking a trick's "word for it". Words don't protect you, safer sex does. In that case, your trick can be poz or neg."

This works for poz people as well as neg people. You don't necessarily have to disclose in these anonymous situations, but you DO have to use condoms. Condom usage when you don't know the other person's hiv status is NON-NEGOTIABLE.

Sen, I know you stated in your first post that you didn't want the safer sex lecture, but it goes hand in hand with the subject matter. I don't understand how you thought it could be avoided. It's like ignoring the elephant in the middle of the room while standing smack dab in the middle of the elephant's manure.

Ann
Excellent post Ann i agree with you 100% .
jan 06 neg
dec 08 pos cd4 505 ,16%, 1,500vl
april 09 cd4 635 ,16%,60,000
july 09 ,cd4 545,17%,80,000
aug 09,hosptal 18days pneumonia cd190,225,000,15%
1 week later cd4 415 20%
nov 09 cd4 591 ,vl 59,000,14%,started atripla
dec 09  cd4 787, vl 266, 16%
march 2010  cd4 720 vl non detectable -20  20%
june 2010  cd4  680, 21%, ND

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2010, 10:01:19 AM »

Recently, someone responded to one of Peter Staley's blogs with these words of wisdom:

""Stated" HIV status means nothing; everyone should be practising safer sex (most importantly meaning not bottoming raw) and not taking a trick's "word for it". Words don't protect you, safer sex does. In that case, your trick can be poz or neg."


These are not words of wisdom if it only specifies that people should not be bottoming raw. Topping raw can still get you HIV, especially if there are other STDs in the mix such as herpes. I got HIV from a "total top," (my ex-partner) who happened to be screwing raw on the side with highly promiscuous bottoms, which is how he got it. He, as a top, also thought he was immune, which is how he got it and gave it to me, thank you very much. We had an open relationship as far as sex on the side but not as far as condom-less sex on the side. I feel like a total idiot for thinking that the raw sex he and I were having was "special." To quote Plan 9 From Outer Space, "Stupid, stupid, stupid."

One of several reasons I assumed he would not have HIV was the fact that he was a total top. I was also not aware he was screwing raw so indiscriminately. This mentality that tops don't get HIV or are unlikely to get it is bullshit, a lesson I learned the hard way. Who do you think "total bottoms" are getting HIV from? Their big ol' dildoes? Sometimes from versatile guys and sometimes, yes, believe it or not, from total tops.

Maybe when this double-standard where gay men think only bottoms can get HIV disappears will rates of infection begin to go down.

Another lesson is I should never have become involved with a total top, I'm not even a total bottom. But I "fell in love," yuch!@  

"'Bitter,' party of one."  ;)
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 10:24:53 AM by Inchlingblue »

Offline Ann

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2010, 10:12:07 AM »

These are not words of wisdom if it only specifies that people should not be bottoming raw. Topping raw can still get you HIV, especially if there are other STDs in the mix such as herpes.


It does not "only" specify that people should not be bottoming raw. Read it again. He states that everyone  should be practising safer sex. He then goes on to add that it is even more important for bottoms and this is true. Bottoms are statistically more likely to be infected not only with hiv, but with other STIs as well. Same goes for women. It's just the science and mechanics of hiv and STI transmission.

Any top who thinks that they aren't included in the word everyone is just fooling himself. Just because a bottom is more likely  to end up with an STI or hiv doesn't mean that a top is immune.

Ann
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 10:14:08 AM by Ann »
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2010, 10:16:17 AM »
It does not "only" specifically state that people should not be bottoming raw. Read it again. He states that everyone  should be practising safer sex. He then goes on to add that it is even more important for bottoms and this is true. Bottoms are statistically more likely to be infected not only with hiv, but with other STIs as well. Same goes for women. It's just the science and mechanics of hiv and STI transmission. Any top who thinks that they aren't included in the word everyone is just fooling himself.

Ann

Dearest Ann, there is absolutely no reason to add "(most importantly meaning not bottoming raw)" to the statement. It dilutes the message and is potentially dangerous. It also doesn't make sense. If it's saying not to bottom raw is the most important thing to consider that implies that it's not "as important" not to top raw but anyone who is topping raw will be doing it with someone on bottom! 

Do you have anything to back up your statement that bottoms are statistically more likely to be infected with other STDs?

Total tops can and do get HIV, period. There should not be the mistaken mentality that they don't. That thinking is dangerous and leads to more infections.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 10:29:51 AM by Inchlingblue »

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2010, 10:33:33 AM »
Oh girl, how do you know he was a "total top"?  Because he told you?  Yeah, like that's really reliable unless you were there when he was totally topping.  It's just as lame as believing people when they say they're negative.  Proves nothing... just words.

There are tons... TONS of queens out there who think saying they're a "total top" gets them to the front of the line.  "Total" is an overly big word.  I might claim to be a "total bottom" but the truth is I was generally in top mode at least twice a year -- not enough to claim to be very versatile, but enough to loosey goosey with words to a partner.  It's all bullshit when it comes to HIV transmission in my book.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2010, 10:41:44 AM »
Oh girl, how do you know he was a "total top"?  Because he told you?  Yeah, like that's really reliable unless you were there when he was totally topping.  It's just as lame as believing people when they say they're negative.  Proves nothing... just words.

There are tons... TONS of queens out there who think saying they're a "total top" gets them to the front of the line.  "Total" is an overly big word.  I might claim to be a "total bottom" but the truth is I was generally in top mode at least twice a year -- not enough to claim to be very versatile, but enough to loosey goosey with words to a partner.  It's all bullshit when it comes to HIV transmission in my book.

Miss P, I KNEW you were going to say that, lol. Seriously, this guy really is and has been a total top all his life. He has a "thing" about anyone getting anywhere near his butt. I know there are people who claim to be total tops and aren't but this one really is.

The thing is some of the guys he was fucking raw were big party bottoms, the kind who binge and take load after load. These individuals are much more likely to have other STDs, such as herpes, and this facilitates transmission.

Things were starting to go south between us and I happen to see his text messages one day and saw one from such a guy, saying how hot it was to feel my ex's cum inside him and how he loves it when he breeds him, etc. No judgments here, but if you are having that kind of sex, you are likely to have HIV and if you fuck someone raw who is having that kind of sex you are also likely to get HIV. It would have been nice if, considering these kinds of extra-curricular activities, he had at least put on a condom when he came home to me. Too much for me to ask for I guess.

But your point that the distinctions as to who considers themselves "total" tops or bottoms versus versatile, is important. The fact that there is such fluidity with it all is precisely why it's so meaningless to make a statement such as the "(most importantly meaning not bottoming raw)." 

To avoid HIV and other STDs condoms should always be used in any situation where a person does not absolutely know their partner's status, whether we're talking tops or bottoms or whatever.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 10:49:03 AM by Inchlingblue »

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2010, 10:56:18 AM »

The thing is some of the guys he was fucking raw were big party bottoms, the kind who binge and take load after load. These individuals are much more likely to have other STDs, such as herpes, and this facilitates transmission.

Oh, Miss Tina was in the house now was she?  That explains everything.  She makes total tops into total bottoms -- unless you're now going to swear up and down that your ex didn't do Tina while the party pig bottoms were doing it.  I've been around the block enough times in Manhattan to know that's another big yarn -- he was probably at Lou Maletta's up in the private manager's office sling and getting passed around by five German men.  All bets are off now.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #43 on: February 21, 2010, 11:13:57 AM »
Oh, Miss Tina was in the house now was she?  That explains everything.  She makes total tops into total bottoms -- unless you're now going to swear up and down that your ex didn't do Tina while the party pig bottoms were doing it.  I've been around the block enough times in Manhattan to know that's another big yarn -- he was probably at Lou Maletta's up in the private manager's office sling and getting passed around by five German men.  All bets are off now.


Miss Tina might have been in the house with some of the bottoms he was fucking but my ex does not drink or smoke or do any kind of drugs. I always did notice he was attracted to big fucked up party bottoms, though. I had a friend who was like that, this guy, a top, would actually have meth on hand to give to other guys so they could become voracious bottoms but he never did any himself. Look, there's something to be said for a voracious bottom, it can be a real turn on to have sex with one.
 
I wish he had been on meth, that would have been a red flag for me. This guy (my ex) goes to bed no later than 10 PM every night, is up at around 6 AM to work. He does not even have a glass of wine, no smoking, no nothing. He also buys condoms in bulk and he did use them sometimes, just not all the time. Unfortunately for me he had a weak spot for sometimes raw fucking party bottoms. The point is: not everyone who has sex with someone on meth is on meth themselves.

 
« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 07:09:40 PM by Inchlingblue »

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #44 on: February 21, 2010, 11:34:31 AM »
If you say so sweetheart.  Sounds like a story only a 14 year old would buy, but then I guess I've long realized that the combination of drugs and sex includes a lot of fibbing.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #45 on: February 21, 2010, 11:38:16 AM »
If you say so sweetheart.  Sounds like a story only a 14 year old would buy, but then I guess I've long realized that the combination of drugs and sex includes a lot of fibbing.

It must be so nice to think one knows it all. Hail, oh Great One. ;)

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #46 on: February 21, 2010, 11:40:10 AM »
Inch and Philly, could you guys at least get into a swimsuit and wrestle this out in some jello?  It'd be a lot more interesting in that format.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #47 on: February 21, 2010, 11:49:48 AM »




    Deleted because I'm going to stay outta of it.  Apologies!
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 12:02:07 PM by skeebo1969 »
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Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2010, 12:03:07 PM »
This thread, to quote Michael Kors, is a total train wreck (ingredients: bareback sex, lies, disclosure, STDs, stigma, moral high horse riding, guilt, and jello).
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline leatherman

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2010, 12:48:23 PM »
This thread, to quote Michael Kors, is a total train wreck (ingredients: bareback sex, lies, disclosure, STDs, stigma, moral high horse riding, guilt, and jello).
mmmmmm jello  ;D
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Offline denb45

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2010, 01:45:28 PM »
Just an addition to the screening stuff:

If you find yourself with syphilis, be aware the "usual dose" of penicillin may not be enough to take care of it. HIV and Syphilis go together like turkey and gravy.

It may take multiple shots and, if it goes too long without resolving, standard of care is to have a lumbar puncture to ascertain whether syphilis has infiltrated the central nervous system. No, I am not talking years here. HIV helps syphilis do its thing much more quickly. I have known people who developed neurosyphilis within a year.

If the lumbar puncture reveals the presence of syphilis in the spinal fluid, it would mean a week of hospital food and IV antibiotics.

This is not something with which to play around.

HUGS,

Mark


Mark is right, here in New Mexico syphilis is a VERY BIG PROBLEM, me and my otherhalf went thur this 2 yrs. ago, when he wanted a 3rd sex partner, turns out, he out syphilis, but , I was lucky and didn't  ???
after being on a IV-drip for 14 days, and then getting 2 bicilin-shots in the ass, he wasn't a very happy camper, I even had to get the 2 shots, just as a pre-caution, and they HURT like hell, my otherhalf was also very lucky he didn't become HIV+ form that.....  :-X Ann is spot on as well, if you don't have safe sex, then you are the one, that can get STI's and God knows what else  ???
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 01:51:15 PM by denb45 »
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Offline sensual1973

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #51 on: February 21, 2010, 02:57:47 PM »
one thing i learned from this post is : never post in "living with hiv". the thread gets hijacked,morals get involved,people preaching,bla bla bla ... it is not worth it,i should have called my GP instead wouldnt have taken more than 5 minutes,here 2 pages of posts dealing with what YOU think,not what "I" was asking about.what a shame !!!
God grant me the serenity to accept the things i can not change.

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2010, 03:04:05 PM »
I think we feel for you, but as someone who is hiv+ you should know not to sleep with someone without using protection.  I feel for you, I really do.  I had the horrible nightsweats and the inability to sleep where I would wake up and my sheets were soaked, so I'd be doing laundry at 3am and then unable to get back to sleep because I felt so miserable.  The others just want to make sure you know never to do what you did again not only because of what you could give to someone else, but because of what they could give to you.

You told us the details and you get both sides of it.  Surely you know that with any group of people opinions are going to differ.  Realize that the admonishment in these posts is an attempt to protect you from hurting yourself again.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2010, 03:10:10 PM »
one thing i learned from this post is : never post in "living with hiv". the thread gets hijacked,morals get involved,people preaching,bla bla bla ... it is not worth it,i should have called my GP instead wouldnt have taken more than 5 minutes,here 2 pages of posts dealing with what YOU think,not what "I" was asking about.what a shame !!!

Well, we're all just horribly heartbroken that you've not enjoyed your time in the Real World outside of the circle jerk commonly known as the Research News forum.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline denb45

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2010, 03:13:11 PM »
one thing i learned from this post is : never post in "living with hiv". the thread gets hijacked,morals get involved,people preaching,bla bla bla ... it is not worth it,i should have called my GP instead wouldnt have taken more than 5 minutes,here 2 pages of posts dealing with what YOU think,not what "I" was asking about.what a shame !!!

What did U expect  ::) I hope U do call ur GP, you may not have anything at all, opinions are not  8)
perhaps you can learn something form this  ;D
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Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2010, 03:15:54 PM »
one thing i learned from this post is : never post in "living with hiv". the thread gets hijacked,morals get involved,people preaching,bla bla bla ... it is not worth it,i should have called my GP instead wouldnt have taken more than 5 minutes,here 2 pages of posts dealing with what YOU think,not what "I" was asking about.what a shame !!!

Oh boo hoo, you're breakin' my heart.

Listen bub, you got the advice you asked for. However the "DON'T JUDGE ME" crap doesn't hold in these here parts.

You wanna share the details of your tedious sexual transactions in steam houses? Cool, but you can't dictate what responses you might receive.

MtD

Offline tokyodecadence

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Re: i really dont need this now !
« Reply #56 on: February 24, 2010, 08:25:04 PM »
rather then just toss out your judgment, throw your hands in the air and walk off...which is what you've done. 

Oh come on....but throwing my hands in the air and walking off is my FAVORITE thing to do! I sometimes do it for no reason, just because I love it.


"Oh my, your hair looks fantastic today!"

-*throws hands in the air and walks off*
[.Fod„o.]

 


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