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Author Topic: Experienced Bottom with first time scenario  (Read 5308 times)

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Offline LanceMcDowellRN

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Experienced Bottom with first time scenario
« on: February 11, 2010, 12:27:46 PM »
Greetings:

A profound website! I am eager to look around for educational purposes, but as a gay man in the medical field, I also have a few questions of my own which have hindered me in the past from enjoying (safe) sex.

1. There seems to be extreme opposition on the issue of pre-cum and its infectiousness. Where does this website stand as far as deeming pre-cum as “infectious” or “not?” As a bottom, I often like to engage in frottage with my sexual partners. More often than not, the men I meet are anonymous, so the chances are likely that I have interacted with numerous HIV positive men. I frequently grind my anus against a man’s penis and – in time – feel pre-cum on my anus. Given that I do not have sores/cuts/etc. on or around my anus, where do I stand as far as HIV transmission is concerned? Some guys like to push the head of their penis on my anus -- it doesn't go in. Again, risky or not?

2. Secondly, an Infectious Diseases nurse told me recently that HIV is actually difficult to contract, even as a bottom receiving semen in their anus. Granted, no one should willingly engage in such risky behavior and attempt to dodge the bullet, per se, but an explanation of the dynamics involved in HIV transmission (inside the anus) would be greatly appreciated. (What is required for HIV transmission to take place, cells it infects, etc.) I can imagine this question has been asked before. If I need to be directed to previous posts to avoid having you retype old answers, please direct me.

Thank you, kindly, for your help.

 LM

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Several Legit Medical Transmission Questions
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2010, 12:47:23 PM »
Hi Lance,

To begin, the only confirmed risks for the sexual transmission of HIV are unprotected vaginal and anal intercourse. All other activities are risky theoretically, but in the real world of HIV we know that if you consistently use condoms for intercourse you will be well protected.

The nurse you spoke with is correct that HIV is not easy to contract because it is a fragile virus. BUT, and this is a big BUT, receptive unprotected anal (or vaginal) intercourse is the highest level sexual risk for HIV. Both the anus and the vagina provide the perfect setting for transmission of HIV. You can have as much anal intercourse as you like but whoever is the insertive partner needs always to be wearing a condom. To fail to do that consistently is to put your health and your life at risk. It's as stark and as simple as that.

No matter what spin you put on frottage including griding your butt against another guy's penis is not a risk for transmission. However a guy inserting the head of his penis absolutely IS a risk so you need to avoid doing that unprotected.

Although we're glad to be able to provide information I can't help wondering how you could have gone through RN training and not been given these basics about HIV transmission. This is all information that is essential and one would think would be covered in healthcare training as a matter of standard procedure.

« Last Edit: February 11, 2010, 12:51:46 PM by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline Ann

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Re: Several Legit Medical Transmission Questions
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2010, 01:06:56 PM »
Lance,

1. Frottage is not a risk for hiv infection regardless of the presence or absence of precum. What IS risky is penetration without a condom. As long as you're not being penetrated, you are not at risk. Successful hiv transmission occurs INSIDE the body, as in unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse. Hiv is very fragile and once outside the body, small changes in temperature, and pH and moisture levels all quickly damage the virus and render it unable to infect.

2. Hiv can only infect a very few, very specific types of cells. These are the dendritic cells and CD4 cells. As you may be aware, the intestines will contain dendritic cells. If there is damage to the rectum, this will increase the risk. (and this is why lube is important - aside from preventing condom breakage, it also guards against friction damage)

As I said above, hiv is a very fragile virus. The small environmental changes I spoke of above will damage the surface of the virus and this surface must be intact and undamaged in order for it to latch onto the receptors on the relevant cells and successfully inject its genetic material inside the target cell.

You also have to realise that hiv isn't just fragile, it's also quite weak or inefficient in that it is constantly mutating. A large percentage of virus circulating in a positive person at any one time isn't viable enough to be transmitted because it's missing one protein or another.  You need a fairly high concentration of viable hiv in order to become infected - and that hiv has to find its way to one of the target cells. A lot of people don't realise that hiv can't infect just any old cell.

As Andy says, use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple! Read through all three condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use them with confidence.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline LanceMcDowellRN

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Re: Several Legit Medical Transmission Questions
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2010, 10:43:10 AM »
Andy/Ann: Thank you for your detailed replies.

Andy – to answer your question, RN training does cover HIV/AIDS, but goes more in depth in treatment as a medical professional, not in relation to HIV transmission and safe sex practices. Also, as you may be well aware, there is conflicting information on the Internet, so “teaching” about HIV is always done so very conservatively. With respect to the wonderful, informative websites out there, they tend to place great hysteria on HIV transmission and creating unnecessary fear in people’s minds.

Ann – I am grateful that you explained the dynamics of HIV transmission inside the body. Yes, I am aware of the dendrite cells. When you mentioned, “You need a fairly high concentration of viable HIV in order to become infected - and that HIV has to find its way to one of the target cells,” is this in regards to SEMEN being deposited into the anus/vagina?

Kind regards,

LM

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Several Legit Medical Transmission Questions
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2010, 11:00:57 AM »
It has a lot to do with the school you attend and the participation of the class in how much detail is taught in class.

Offline Ann

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Re: Several Legit Medical Transmission Questions
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2010, 11:04:04 AM »
Lance,

Yes, you can say that quote is in reference to semen being deposited into a anus or vagina, but it also applies in a more general way. You need a high concentration of viable virus reaching target cells no matter where the target cell resides in the body or in what bodily fluid the hiv is present.

I know what you mean about how hiv is taught to medical practitioners. I attended the hiv awareness course offered at my local hospital's nurse education center. The information on hiv transmission the instructor offered was terribly out-of-date and very non-technical. Of course I updated her and was able to use the education center's library and printer to supply her with recent studies.

Disturbingly, the session where an OB/GYN doc came in to discuss treatments available for hiv positive women was also woefully out of date. I updated him too. ;D

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline LanceMcDowellRN

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Re: Several Legit Medical Transmission Questions
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2010, 03:51:13 PM »
Ann,

"You need a high concentration of viable virus reaching target cells no matter where the target cell resides in the body or in what bodily fluid the hiv is present."

Since HIV can only be injected/attached to a specific cell (dendrite), what happens in cases where a healthcare worker is stuck with an HIV-infected needle...or when an IV drug user shoots residual blood into their veins? What is the HIV virus looking for IN THE BLOOD to latch onto?

Thanks.

Offline Ann

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Re: Several Legit Medical Transmission Questions
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2010, 02:45:35 AM »
Lance,

In the bloodstream, hiv latches onto CD4 cells, which are a subset of leukocytes (T-lymphocytes). I did mention CD4 cells in my previous post. As a nurse, I thought you would have heard of them. CD4 cells are also commonly called T-cells, as they are in our Lessons section on this website.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline LanceMcDowellRN

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Re: Oral Exposure
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2010, 12:42:44 PM »
Ann – I have been reading up on other encounters with other people’s sexual experiences. I recently met a guy who, during foreplay, was pushing the head of his dick/penis very hard on my anus. Granted, there was no lube and penis’ don’t suddenly wall in without lube, so I don’t believe even the head of his penis penetrated me. However, I did want to ask you a few questions regarding this gentlemen’s encounter (dipping).

As we discussed on my original thread, the internet is pouring with scare tactics regarding HIV transmission. I was surprised to read your quote in this guy’s thread: “dipping is, although it's very much on the low end of the scale. While I would absolutely NOT expect you to test positive over this brief dipping experience…”

Even if pre-cum was involved, is it safe to say that as a general rule of thumb, pre-cum is not a sufficient quantity of the HIV virus to cause transmission? Obviously, you/the website/whoever wouldn’t actively encourage people to engage in dipping – and I understand that – but as a rule of thumb, why is this a less-risky activity? I have many HIV+ positive friends, and the one consistent variable in their HIV contraction stories is semen deposited into their anus.

Offline Ann

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Re: Several Legit Medical Transmission Questions
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2010, 12:57:18 PM »
Lance,

I removed your post from someone else's thread and merged it with your original thread. You are not permitted to post in other people's threads. Your original thread is where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep all your additional thoughts or questions in one thread. It doesn't matter how long it has been since you last posted in your thread or if the subject matter is different.

If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.

Please also read through the Welcome Thread so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.





Dipping is brief penetration and it does not sound as though you were penetrated. It sounds more like rough frottage to me and frottage is NOT a risk for hiv infection. As long as no penetration took place, you had no risk.

Please re-read your entire thread.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline LanceMcDowellRN

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Re: Several Legit Medical Transmission Questions
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2010, 11:10:16 PM »
The Western blot technique is used as the confirmatory test for a positive ELISA result because it provides a better specificity. How does this technique perform better specificity?

Offline Ann

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Re: Several Legit Medical Transmission Questions
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2010, 08:21:30 AM »
Lance,

You can read a simple explanation here, and you can read a more scientifically detailed explanation here. You can take mini online lessons on hiv antibody and WB testing here.

Happy reading.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline LanceMcDowellRN

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Re: Several Legit Medical Transmission Questions
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2010, 10:15:44 PM »
Had a brief encounter this evening with a guy. He performed oral sex on me. I have a healing ingrown hair that was on my penis. Would his saliva getting into the wound put me at risk since HIV has been isolated in saliva?

Also, He fingered me. I can't recall if he tried to finger me AFTER he came. Would a small amount of semen on his fingers going into my anus be a risk? Pre-cum?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Several Legit Medical Transmission Questions
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2010, 10:24:42 PM »
Oral sex is not a risk. Saliva is not infectious and doesn't transmit HIV. Saliva has over a dozen different enzymes and proteins that inhibits HIV transmission.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Several Legit Medical Transmission Questions
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2010, 08:26:41 AM »
It doesn't matter what details you throw into the mix about receiving oral. No guy has ever been confrimed to have been infected through that  very common sexual act and you aren't going to make history by becoming the first.

Ditto for fingering no matter what variations you add on.

Neither of those are risks for HIV transmission.
Andy Velez

Offline Ann

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Re: Several Legit Medical Transmission Questions
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2010, 08:46:30 AM »
Lance,

What gives? You're allegedly a nurse. You've been coming here for several months and you've been asked to read the lessons. You've been given more detailed information on the cellular level than we give those whom we assume to be lay-persons. You've been given in-depth information on testing on websites where there is an awful lot of scientific information on hiv.

And yet you come back here to ask if saliva is infectious? Good lord man, the fact that saliva is NOT infectious isn't even in the "HIV101" course, it's it's in the "An Introduction to HIV" course.

As you've been repeatedly told, sexually speaking, the ONLY true risks are UNPROTECTED anal or vaginal intercourse.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE!!!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline LanceMcDowellRN

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Experienced Bottom with first time scenario
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2011, 11:00:22 AM »
I had protected sex with a guy of unknown status two nights ago. I’m normally very diligent at grabbing the penis after he withdraws and holding onto it and personally like to remove it so I can attest to it being intact. At the time, there didn’t seem to be any noticeable issues with the condom.

When I got home, I went to the bathroom to get rid of the lube/water that had built up (during douching prior to sex) and had egg-white/cream-colored snotty, mucus-looking stuff coming out of my ass. It looked so much like semen. I absolutely freaked. I texted the guy and asked if the condom had broken and maybe I had not been aware of it. He denied it broke. Now, I am sick with worry.

I’m an experienced bottom and have never seen this type of discharge before. Normally, it’s simply lube that comes out. I did some research on intestinal flora/mucus and there are some articles that claim intestinal flora is white. I’m wondering if my heavy-handed douching dislodged some flora and moved it downstream to my rectum prior to sex, and coincidentally, it came out after sex.

Given the timing (right after sex), you can imagine my worry.

1. Is white discharge/flora a common thing after anal sex?

Does anyone have any other advice or possible explanations that I maybe haven’t thought of?

Offline Ann

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Re: Experienced Bottom with first time scenario
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2011, 03:01:19 PM »
Lance,

I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep all your additional thoughts or questions in one thread. It doesn't matter how long it has been since you last posted in your thread or if the subject matter is different.

If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.

Please also read through the Welcome Thread so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.  You've been told this before, so try to remember in future.





I couldn't possibly tell you want came out of your ass - I wasn't there. If you're that worried about it, test at six weeks. You should be testing regularly anyway. To be honest, it sounds to me like you're worrying over nothing. It was probably just lube mixed with your own rectal mucus.

Here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.

To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann

Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline LanceMcDowellRN

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Re: Experienced Bottom with first time scenario
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2011, 11:40:51 AM »
Ann,

I've been wanting to gain some clarification on this comment you made several threads ago...

"...it's also quite weak or inefficient in that it is constantly mutating. A large percentage of virus circulating in a positive person at any one time isn't viable enough to be transmitted because it's missing one protein or another"

Can you explain to me what you mean, exactly, about the large percentage of blood isn't viable enough to transmit.

Thank you.

Offline Ann

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Re: Experienced Bottom with first time scenario
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2011, 11:52:23 AM »
Lance,

Are you really an RN as you claim? Because if you are, I don't know how you managed to qualify as your reading comprehension skills seem to be non-existent. I don't know how to make what was said any plainer.

Hiv is a virus that constantly mutates. Many of the mutations are missing various proteins. When some proteins are missing, the virus cannot infect. Got it?

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline LanceMcDowellRN

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Re: Experienced Bottom with first time scenario
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2011, 09:38:58 PM »
I’m done using this website. I’m sick and tired of being insulted by people who CLAIM to be Educators. Yes, I’m an RN. Insulting remarks like that are just unnecessary, Ann, and what’s more, if you’re not happy or have a short fuse working in this line of work – CHANGE CAREERS!!!!

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Experienced Bottom with first time scenario
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2011, 09:46:05 PM »
Good, then move along. There are other websites out there.

Offline Ann

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Re: Experienced Bottom with first time scenario
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2011, 09:52:10 AM »
Lance,

Bye-bye!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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