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Author Topic: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients  (Read 11340 times)

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Offline Miss Philicia

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Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« on: January 28, 2010, 04:13:04 PM »
link

Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
With AIDS growing among seniors, decline in brain function a serious concern, researchers say.


TUESDAY, Jan. 26 (HealthDay News) -- Premature aging is striking the brains of people infected with the virus that causes AIDS, new research suggests.

It's not clear if the virus or the drugs that treat it -- or both -- are contributing to the aging. But one thing is clear: The blood flow in HIV patients is about the same as in those of uninfected people who are 15 to 20 years older.

"The graying of the AIDS patient community makes this infection's effects on the brain a significant source of concern," study author Dr. Beau Ances, an assistant professor of neurology at Washington University in St. Louis, said in a university news release.

"Patients are surviving into their senior years, and a number of them are coming forward to express concerns about problems they're having with memory and other cognitive functions," Ances said.

An estimated 14 percent to 18 percent of all AIDS patients in the United States are more than 50 years old, and older people face one of the highest rates of new infections. By 2015, people over the age of 50 may account for more than half of all AIDS patients.

In the study, researchers used MRI scans to study the blood flow in the brains of 26 HIV-infected people and 25 other people who weren't infected. The average age and education level of the participants were similar.
The researchers found reduced blood flow in the brains of younger HIV-infected patients who were infected recently, not just the older ones.

The study was released online in advance of publication in the Feb. 1 print issue of the Journal of Infectious Diseases.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2010, 09:24:41 PM »
Yes, this is what I fear the most. With the aging of the HIV pool this is probably going to be a definite issue.  :(

-Will
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Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
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Offline mecch

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2010, 09:52:03 PM »
Doesn't anyone have an electronic / athens login to get the real paper?  I'm off campus until the end of february.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2010, 09:55:08 PM »
Yes, this is what I fear the most. With the aging of the HIV pool this is probably going to be a definite issue.  :(

-Will

I'm just happy that in my 22nd year of infection they've begun to study this.  At least in three years when I morph into Terry Schiavo I'll at least know what's going on for a period of five minutes.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline veritas

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2010, 06:14:59 AM »


Here's the abstract (full paper needs to be purchased as I do not have access):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20047503?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=3

Although concerning, it is certainly not unheard of, we have all heard of Aids Dementia. Here is an abstract with respect to HIV and alchohol comorbidity:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16959813?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_SingleItemSupl.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=3&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed

If you want some unguaranteed insurance, try green tea (it won't hurt you and might help, it helped rats):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20064606?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=2

v


Offline minismom

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2010, 06:27:13 AM »
Mim's *only* 9 1/2 years into her infection, but her cognitive functions have crapped out in so many ways: memory (long-term, short-term, visual, and auditory), reasoning, learning new skills, muscle function, coordination, and the list goes on.  Unfortunatly, we'll never have a base-line of what she was (could have been / would have been) without her infection.  

It seems like studies could be done using the cognitive functions / blood flow of LTNP.  These folks have never been on medication so it would reason that if their cognition is also impaired, then it must be from the virus.  If not, then the meds would be more to blame.  If they are impaired, but not to the same degree, then we'd be looking at a combination of virus and meds.  

It is interesting that the article notes reduced blood flow in "young" pozzies and not just the older populus.  It's not clear, however, if they are referring to "young" in age or "young" in infection?  Also, what is "young"?  It does beg the need of more than just blood tests when it comes to HIV.  Baseline cognitive testing and MRI scans (and DEXA scans) along with annual or bi-annual repeats certainly need to be done.  I'd like to also see a shift from treating the virus to treating the person.  

I wonder why there's been such an influx of articles about this subject lately.

Mum
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Offline freewillie99

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2010, 07:13:30 AM »
It's well known that regular cardiovascular exercise increases blood flow to the brain.  Think of a spinning class as insurance against going loopy.
Beware Romanians bearing strange gifts

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2010, 09:52:54 AM »
Green tea and jogging will do the trick, folks.  Nothing to see here, let's just move along.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2010, 10:06:14 AM »
It's well known that regular cardiovascular exercise increases blood flow to the brain.  Think of a spinning class as insurance against going loopy.

Oh yea, that will do the trick.  I prefer to just let my hair grow long and heavy...  I think it pulls all the blood to my scalp.  On it's way to the scalp it passes by the brain.  I'm still a crazy bastard though..
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2010, 11:17:12 AM »
Green tea and jogging will do the trick, folks.  Nothing to see here, let's just move along.

What about poppers? They increase bloodflow to the brain. Maybe we need to increase their intake in our diets.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2010, 11:25:11 AM »
What about poppers? They increase bloodflow to the brain. Maybe we need to increase their intake in our diets.

That would definitely explain why I'm still so sharp in my thinking, but I doubt I'll be getting requests for what brand I use as is currently the case in the the thread about black walnuts.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2010, 11:31:42 AM »
That would definitely explain why I'm still so sharp in my thinking, but I doubt I'll be getting requests for what brand I use as is currently the case in the the thread about black walnuts.

I'd venture to say you are a Jungle Juice type of patient.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2010, 11:44:16 AM »
I'd venture to say you are a Jungle Juice type of patient.

Nope.  I snag imported stuff from Fort Troff.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"


Offline freewillie99

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2010, 01:16:20 PM »
Oh yea, that will do the trick.  I prefer to just let my hair grow long and heavy...  I think it pulls all the blood to my scalp.  On it's way to the scalp it passes by the brain.  I'm still a crazy bastard though..

Heh...based on that response I'm guessing that you've already achieved loopy status, skeebo.  Keep sitting your fat ass on the sofa and chain smoking those unfiltered.  That's the ticket.
Beware Romanians bearing strange gifts

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2010, 01:52:29 PM »
I might take Green Tea if I could stomach the stuff.  I gag at the smell of it.

Offline veritas

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2010, 01:57:12 PM »

Hellraiser,

Have you ever tried it with honey and a little half and half? It makes it easier to take.

v


Offline leatherman

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2010, 02:38:15 PM »
I might take Green Tea if I could stomach the stuff.  I gag at the smell of it.
I'm with you on this one.  ;)

Green tea, liver and brussel sprouts are the only drink/food items that leatherman never ingests. Yuck! Since I'll never have enough hair for dreds, I'll just up my popper usage and hope that helps keep my noggin working longer. :D LOL
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Oh my friends, my friends forgive me
That I live and you are gone.
There's a grief that can't be spoken.
There's a pain goes on and on.
Empty chairs at empty tables
Where my friends will meet no more.

"Empty Chairs at Empty Tables" from Les Miserables

Offline elf

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2010, 12:32:45 AM »
Go eat some fish  ;D :)
Let's have a Kiki!

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2010, 02:20:06 AM »
Go eat some fish  ;D :)

I also hate the taste of fish.  It's just so fishy.  Surely I eat something that's good for me right?  Brocolli? Pecans?  Any fruit that isn't a melon?

Offline John2038

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2010, 10:28:17 AM »
Assuming no drugs interactions, nasty side effects and so, wondering if the viagra or the vinpocetine could contribute to improve our brain condition.

Offline Nestor

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2010, 10:36:59 AM »
I agree with Minismom:

Quote
It seems like studies could be done using the cognitive functions / blood flow of LTNP.  These folks have never been on medication so it would reason that if their cognition is also impaired, then it must be from the virus.  If not, then the meds would be more to blame.  If they are impaired, but not to the same degree, then we'd be looking at a combination of virus and meds.  

This sounds like something that would be worth doing.  

But actually, that New York Magazine article that caused such heated discussion here a while back already had a few interesting things to say on the topic:

At first, it says:

"Researchers are convinced that bone loss, perhaps more clearly than the other conditions, is a direct side effect of the medications, while the brain issues are more likely to be related to HIV itself."

But then it seems to take that back:

"For the problems with dementia, most researchers blame HIV itself, which it turns out can continue replicating in, and damaging, the brain despite being controlled in the bloodstream.....

But in many cases of dementia, there are no signs of viral activity around the brain, suggesting other factors may be at play. At the Manhattan HIV Brain Bank at Mount Sinai, researchers have dissected the skull contents of 250 volunteers who agreed to a series of psychological interviews and neurological exams, then promised to hand over their brains at death.... According to Dr. Susan Morgello, who directs the lab, most people who showed signs of dementia while alive do not have evidence of HIV in their autopsied brain. What they do have in common, she says, is evidence of persistent inflammation, which alone could account for the cognitive damage.

But Morgello is investigating something thatís both more surprising and less so: The inflammation might be caused as much by the patientís emotional and psychiatric burden as the virusís pathological course. ďWe have screamingly high rates of major depressive disorders, substance abuse and dependency, and post-traumatic-stress disorder...."



The vicious circle, for me at least, is that having HIV is in itself depressing!  And if someone already felt depressed before getting HIV (which is the case, I think, with many of us) getting HIV didn't exactly help reduce the depression.  

With all this, I think actively looking into anything that might have an anit-inflammatory or anti-depressant effect, such as the suggestions here about green tea or exercise, is a very reasonable thing to be doing.  

As someone who has loved green tea for most of my life, may I ask the haters of green tea a question?  Precisely what green teas have you tried?  Is it possible that they were just not very good ones, or weren't prepared properly?  


« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 10:38:49 AM by Nestor »
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
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Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2010, 10:38:14 AM »
I also hate the taste of fish.  It's just so fishy.  

That means what you're eating isn't very fresh, or you're choosing overly oily
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2010, 10:42:28 AM »
Hellraiser,

Have you ever tried it with honey and a little half and half? It makes it easier to take.

v



Clear the brain and clog the arteries.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2010, 10:48:07 AM »
Heh...based on that response I'm guessing that you've already achieved loopy status, skeebo.  Keep sitting your fat ass on the sofa and chain smoking those unfiltered.  That's the ticket.

Guessing, assuming, which ever your wrong...  It's OK though, go pump some iron!
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.


Offline veritas

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2010, 10:53:49 AM »


"Clear the brain and clog the arteries"


Not if you exercise !

Offline freewillie99

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2010, 11:11:39 AM »
Guessing, assuming, which ever your wrong...  It's OK though, go pump some iron!

lol...puff, puff...

Thanks for the suggestion.  Spoken like a true couch potato.  Although "pumping iron" is beneficial, particularly for one's bone density as we age, currently I prefer my regimen of yoga, spinning, and pilates.  Throw in some daily green tea and fish oil, and I'm doing what I can to keep inflammation at bay.
Beware Romanians bearing strange gifts

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2010, 11:17:07 AM »
lol...puff, puff...

Thanks for the suggestion.  Spoken like a true couch potato.  Although "pumping iron" is beneficial, particularly for one's bone density as we age, currently I prefer my regimen of yoga, spinning, and pilates.  Throw in some daily green tea and fish oil, and I'm doing what I can to keep inflammation at bay.

You know I just browsed over your eloquent posting history since you joined the forums.  Perhaps getting off the roids and going natural will serve you better, you seem a bit testy there.   In the mean time, go pick your next fight... who will it be?
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline freewillie99

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2010, 11:19:17 AM »
You know I just browsed over your eloquent posting history since you joined the forums.  Perhaps getting off the roids and going natural will serve you better, you seem a bit testy there.   In the mean time, go pick your next fight... who will it be?

LOL...how lovely.  Guess I just don't tolerate morons too well.  Congrats for making the grade!
Beware Romanians bearing strange gifts

Offline leatherman

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2010, 11:24:24 AM »
may I ask the haters of green tea a question?  Precisely what green teas have you tried?  Is it possible that they were just not very good ones, or weren't prepared properly?
As a good ol' Southern boy, tea should be dark and have at least a cup and a half of sugar per gallon to be acceptable to drink. ;) I tried green tea from several bottled drink manufacturers, tried it when friends made it, tried it at a couple of restaurants and tried making it at home. If it's not so weak as to have no more flavor than water, then it just tastes bitter or kinda rank, IMO. For disclosure purposes, I should mention that I have been drinking at least a 2-liter bottle of Coca-Cola a day for the last 28 years. ;D

In the mean time, go pick your next fight... who will it be?
hey Skee, whaddayouknow? I didn't think this thread was gonna go all freaky. what's with willy that he thinks you're fat? that's just weird man.  :D  ;D LOL never boring around here is it?
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Oh my friends, my friends forgive me
That I live and you are gone.
There's a grief that can't be spoken.
There's a pain goes on and on.
Empty chairs at empty tables
Where my friends will meet no more.

"Empty Chairs at Empty Tables" from Les Miserables

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2010, 11:25:40 AM »
LOL...how lovely.  Guess I just don't tolerate morons too well.  Congrats for making the grade!

LOL... yes how lovely it is.   Glad I joined the ranks with all the others. ;D  
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2010, 11:27:21 AM »
hey Skee, whaddayouknow? I didn't think this thread was gonna go all freaky. what's with willy that he thinks you're fat? that's just weird man.  :D  ;D LOL never boring around here is it?

LMAO yes, especially when I think my avatar clearly shows my beautiful chest and my trim waistline!!
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline veritas

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2010, 11:33:20 AM »

Nestor,

Informative post !

Inflamation is certainly one of the many problems, being HIV+.

I enjoy green tea, also, at least two cups /day.

v

Offline Nestor

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2010, 12:11:51 PM »

Why did the conversation take the turn it did?  Why have so many conversations here taken the turns they have?  I'd like to do a bit of analysis, because this sort of acrimony seems to surface a lot, and to vitiate otherwise enlightening conversations:

FreeWillie said:

Quote
It's well known that regular cardiovascular exercise increases blood flow to the brain.  Think of a spinning class as insurance against going loopy.

The first reply he recieved was:

Quote
Green tea and jogging will do the trick, folks.  Nothing to see here, let's just move along.

The very next reply was:

Quote
Oh yea, that will do the trick.  I prefer to just let my hair grow long and heavy...  I think it pulls all the blood to my scalp.  On it's way to the scalp it passes by the brain.  I'm still a crazy bastard though..

Now, all of this can come very close to sounding like sarcasm--even like mockery or ridicule.  I'm sure that they were intended to be merely good-natured, but they ran the risk of sounding otherwise.  Nobody suggested that green tea or exercise would be a magic solution or that there was "nothing more" to talk about.  If the suggestion sounded so comical to you, what else would you have us do?  The choices are 1. To become medical researchers ourselves and devote the rest of our lives to finding a cure (noble but not exactly possible for everyone) 2. To do nothing and gather roses while we may (which may not be a bad idea at all, but I doubt highly that people who take that solution are involved in these forums) 3. To make despairing noises, and 4. To look into and talk about small things that we can do that just might help mitigate the effects of problems such as the one that the OP brought before us in this thread.  That last option is called "lighting a candle rather than cursing the darkness."  I do not understand why it is often met with sarcasm or even ridicule. 

I am sure that the comments which led the conversation to degenerate were meant in good fun but it can be frustrating to post something serious and intended to be helpful and to be met immediately with something of that sort--especially when the levity is not mixed with anything in the way of a more thoughtful response. 

As an example, a few months ago someone posted saying that he was really tired every afternoon.  He said he drank starbucks coffee every day and it didn't help.  I posted a comment wondering whether life without caffeine might improve things.  I talked about my own problems with afternoon tiredness, discussed whether napping was a good idea, talked about sugar, msg, and the good and bad aspects of caffeine; finally I suggested trying life without caffeine and seeing what it would do.  One person wrote something similar to what I suggested about caffeine.  After that there was not a single serious response either from the OP or from any other person complaining about afternoon fatigue.  Instead there was just an orgy of one-liners about how they loved Starbucks so much they could kiss the coworker who brought it to them, and how it went well with M&Ms, and then a lot of talk about codeine and other things, analagous to the digression on poppers in this conversation here.  (It is telling that the same people who were reveling in their love for caffeine, candy, and various medicines were the same ones who had been complaining about exhaustion!) Not a single meaningful reply to my statement about caffeine (ironic that I should mention it here, in the same thread in which I'm talking about my love for green tea!) I was left scratching my head--why had I bothered to take the time and energy to post some serious thoughts on the question, only to have the conversation take such an unserious turn? 

My point is that it's fine to mix banter and humor with serious discussion--God knows we need some humour--but when that's all the response made to a serious statement that had been intended to be helpful, it is unsurprising that the person who originally made the statement will take affront. 



Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline Nestor

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2010, 12:44:05 PM »



Veritas,

When I first saw your suggestion about adding half and half to green tea, my first response--I actually started posting it--was to say "That's a sacrilege!"  Then I realised the degree to which my idea of green tea was still influenced by Japanese opinions: like all people who got their tea-drinking habits from the Han Chinese, the Japanese have traditionally regarded milk with horror.  (Ironically, today in Japan it is popular to have "Matcha au lait"--strong green tea with milk and sugar).  But I picked up my tea-drinking habits from traditional Japanese friends twenty years ago and have hardly changed them. 

Yet, all around the western periphery of China, among Manchus, Mongols, Tibetans, etc--tea is drunk with milk.  In Tibet the staple drink is green tea with salt and yak-butter.  I tasted it expecting something bizarre and was surprised to find it vaguely familiar.  After a few minutes I realized what it tasted like: a cream of vegetable soup! 

The Chinese until the Tang dynasty liked to drink tea with orange peels, onions, ginger, salt, and all sorts of other stuff in it; in the Tang a kind of purism set in--"don't add anything, that's vulgar, appreciate the taste in itself"--and has lasted to this day, with the exception of various floral additions like jasmine and the orange blossoms which suggested our Earl Grey.

So cream or milk is not a sacrilege or even a bad idea, although I wouldn't add them to any really good quality tea, just as I would not take really good quality wine and mix it with anything in a cocktail. 

Leatherman,

Now we're even, since I feel about Coca-Cola the way you do about liver and green tea, which are things I love. (I also used to hate brussels sprouts, and I still don't love them, but I finally figured out that if they are neither undercooked (as they usually are in modern restaurants) nor over-cooked (as they used to be) and if they are cooked with a lot of bacon and onions and garlic and butter and broth(no purism here!  I think most vegetables are better with bacon and onions and garlic and butter and broth) I quite like them. 

George Orwell wrote an article about tea in which he said basically the same thing you say: green tea is bad because it is not black tea, and tea is supposed to be black.  (He did, however, hate the idea of sugar in tea: he felt that once one added sugar there was no further flavor of tea.)  If you ever have a chance to try a good green Tie Guan Yin, or one of the "greener" Taiwanese oolongs, or a really nice Japanes Sencha, I would recommend it.  But I can understand how you feel.  Lately I've come to like quite spicy food, and sometimes "normal" food will taste dull to me by comparison.  I can easily see that after coca-cola or black tea, green tea will taste "like water" by comparison. 

One more thing--from your photographs you look rather thin--how is it that you can drink two gallons of coca-cola every day and remain thin, while I drink mainly water and green tea and can never lose those last 20 pounds?  I guess it must be all that bacon I cook with the vegetables.....
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline Nestor

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2010, 12:46:52 PM »

Back to the topic at hand (sorry for the long digression!)

Is there a relationship between blood flow and inflammation?
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2010, 01:44:40 PM »
That means what you're eating isn't very fresh, or you're choosing overly oily

This might be true I actually went to a high end restaurant once and ordered fish it was much better than I expected and without the fishy taste.  The texture wasn't completely awful either.  :D

Offline freewillie99

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2010, 01:47:25 PM »
This might be true I actually went to a high end restaurant once and ordered fish it was much better than I expected and without the fishy taste.  The texture wasn't completely awful either.  :D

Ever had a double Fillet 'o Fish from the Golden Arches?  Fish at it's finest!
Beware Romanians bearing strange gifts

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2010, 01:51:56 PM »
LOL no thank you!  Anyway to try and un derail this thread.  I've definitely felt like my hands and feet just aren't getting the circulation they're used to.  I don't blame the virus but my recent inactivity due to the virus.  I've just not been up to the task of going to the gym recently.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2010, 02:13:53 PM »
I still think poppers help.  I'm not sure why everyone is so dismissive about this idea.  It borders on rudeness, frankly.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Nestor

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2010, 02:14:27 PM »
Quote
my hands and feet just aren't getting the circulation they're used to.

Same here---my hands are fine but my feet are always freezing! But to be fair, I think that's always been the case, and was even when I was a child, so I probably can't blame HIV for that.  But between that and the headaches I periodically have, it's pretty scary to read things like this about decreased blood flow and make the connection.  

For this reason I've been trying yoga--one of the main effects of yoga is supposed to be increased circulation.  All those inversions--shoulder-stands, head-stands--are supposed to cause blood to flow in the opposite direction from normal and therefore bring fresh blood to places where it is needed, and every pose is described as "increasing blood flow" to some particular organ or region of the body.  

I have no idea how much this helps, if at alll, but I suppose it can't hurt!  Except the ego, that is: what I'm able to do generally falls so far short of the poses described in the book....

A sauna is also said to have the effect of improving circulation.  Again, no idea if it works, but it isn't a bad thing to try!  
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline Nestor

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2010, 02:21:30 PM »
I've always hated the smell of poppers.  Some men whom I like a lot use poppers during sex, and so I try not to say anything bad about them.  But one friend always looks really, really scary just after using poppers: his face turns purple!  That certainly doesn't make me want to try it!

Wikipedia's page on poppers says:

Quote
Acute intake of poppers may cause asphyxia, arrhythmias, cardiovascular depression, carbon monoxide poisoning, hepatorenal toxicity, methemoglobinemia, neurologic dysfunction, mucosal, pulmonary, skin irritation and facial dermatitis. With chronic use neurological damage may occur.

I don't know what kind of use qualifies as "chronic" or how great the chances of these things are, but I don't want to find out the hard way.  
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 02:24:29 PM by Nestor »
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2010, 03:04:28 PM »
But one friend always looks really, really scary just after using poppers: his face turns purple! 

Well there you go.  It's obviously an effect of increased blood circulation to the noggin'.  He'll have the last laugh when you're afflicted with AIDS dementia.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2010, 03:09:19 PM »
LOL, Miss Philicia has done extensive EXTENSIVE research into poppers therapy.  Don't doubt the expert.

Offline veritas

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2010, 03:12:00 PM »

Nestor,

You asked: " Is there a relationship between blood flow and inflammation?".

Yes there is. Acute inflamation:

http://courses.washington.edu/conj/inflammation/acuteinflam.htm

Here's another:

http://my.clevelandclinic.org/symptoms/Inflammation/hic_Inflammation_What_You_Need_To_Know.aspx

Not fun !

v

Offline veritas

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2010, 03:23:32 PM »

Here you go Miss P,

Everything you wanted to know about poppers in Homo-Health:

http://www.homohealth.org/mens_program/sexualhealth/poppers.htm

" Nitrates improve blood flow through blocked arteries", but........
v

Offline Nestor

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #47 on: January 30, 2010, 03:26:09 PM »
Thanks Veritas!

But now I'm doubly confused.  According to those articles, increased blood flow to the brain is a feature of inflammation.  Yet the whole premise of this conversation is that blood flow is something we want, and something that HIV+ people don't get enough of.  Whereas, in many other discussions, it is inflammation that is the enemy.  

How can decreased blood flow and inflammation both be characteristics of the same condition?  

Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline veritas

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #48 on: January 30, 2010, 03:55:50 PM »

Nestor,

Inflamation is a protective effect to remove the injured stimuli. However, blood proteins are needed to heal the wound. Without the appropriate blood flow, the wound would never heal, thus, increased blood flow is desireable. The sooner the blood gets there in the appropriate amount, the better we heal.
The inflamation is a signal to the blood to "come on down". (the relationship).

v

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: Premature Aging of the Brain Seen in HIV Patients
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2010, 01:55:09 AM »
LOL...how lovely.  Guess I just don't tolerate morons too well.  Congrats for making the grade!

Was there any need for name calling and personal attacks?  You have been previously warned by Ann on how you behave around this sandbox.

Dearest Nestor, since I was the first one to bring up the subject of amyl nitrites I ask for your forgiveness.

So the bottom line is that to remain alert and avoid dementia we need to include different food groups.  The menu includes fish with back walnuts, wash it down with lots of green tea and then snort a few poppers.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

 


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