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Author Topic: Low t-cell and healthy?  (Read 22653 times)

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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #50 on: January 16, 2010, 12:56:52 PM »
I did not make this post for advice. Thank you again.

So why did you do it in the first place?
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Grasshopper

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2010, 01:28:58 PM »
Hello all, these forums are INVALUABLE for me.  I don't know what I would do without you guys.  I have a question though.  As you can see from my signature, my t-cells are low and my viral load is high.  I know that will change if I started taking meds.  Are there others on this forum that have low CD4's and no meds who are living healthy lives?  I have no OI's and I am the picture of health. 

1) his question is: " Are there others on this forum that have low CD4's and no meds who are living healthy lives? "   => He wants to get in touch with others in similair position.

2) his vision on this disease: "my t-cells are low and my viral load is high.  I know that will change if I started taking meds.  => He is not an AIDS denialist, but for reasons not clearly disclosed has chosen not to start meds. While I may disagree with this, at least I have the decency to RESPECT his choice...and so should all of you !


Why this collective urge to start a feeding frenzy ?  Give the guy a break !
« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 01:53:42 PM by Grasshopper »

Offline Etay1207

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #52 on: January 16, 2010, 01:50:32 PM »
Thank you, Grasshopper!!!!!!
POZ since 1999
1/07 tcells: 530 vl: 72,922 7/07 tcells: 542 vl: 26,577
9/08 tcells: 339 vl: 56,120  7/09 tcells: 267 vl: 663,160
11/09 tcells: 71 vl: 498,670 2/10 tcells: 52 vl: 322,000
 no meds and feeling great!

Offline leatherman

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #53 on: January 16, 2010, 01:54:26 PM »
Why this collective urge to start a feeding frenzy ?  Give the guy a break !
perhaps you too should read the Lesson about "When to start meds" so you'll understand the danger zone that Etay is in with counts like he has.

I have written my posts because all of my friends and partners that have died from AIDS, all had counts very similar to the ones Etay has. I very nearly died with counts like that a few times, and only because of the meds I am here today. Etay is very much in a "danger zone" and seems to be denying the science that says he should start meds (well, that he's past the point of starting meds) to stay alive. Though he's not in denial about having HIV, as illustrated by him continuing to have labs done, he does seem to be in denial about taking the meds.

Our "feeding frenzy" as you call it, is because we'd really hate to have to add the name "Etay" to the list of those whom this disease has killed off.


I see that you're back online (sat 1:52 1/16) Etay and really hope that you can get some time to answer some of the questions that we've raised about your choice to not start meds. Thanking people who vaguely give you support doesn't really help the rest of us to understand why you are making the choice that you are. As I mentioned before, you should be able to see that your current choice flies in the face of science and logic. Our "advice", though perhaps unwanted by you, is only given in the spirit to keep your from harm's way or from death as many of us have seen happen more times than we care to remember. Best wishes!
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Grasshopper

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #54 on: January 16, 2010, 03:28:20 PM »
perhaps you too should read the Lesson about "When to start meds" so you'll understand the danger zone that Etay is in with counts like he has.

If only you had taken the time to read up on me, you wouldn't have  stuck your foot in your mouth with that remark.

Have you been hospitalized as many times as I ? Have you had your lab results read CD4 0 (zero!) and VL hovering between 2 and 3 million for 2 years ? Have you ever had to empty a syringe  with Pentobarbital in an IV to euthanize your dying partner because the doc chickend out at the last moment ?.......guess not.....so don't even think that you can teach me anything about this shitty disease.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 03:31:56 PM by Grasshopper »

Offline Ann

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #55 on: January 16, 2010, 03:31:08 PM »

1) his question is: " Are there others on this forum that have low CD4's and no meds who are living healthy lives? "   => He wants to get in touch with others in similair position.


He's not going to find many, as most people with numbers like his don't survive very long without meds. That's what we've been trying to tell him.

His actions seem less like an informed choice and more like a delusional idea that he's somehow immune to OIs even though all the scientific evidence we've collected in the past 30 years tells us he's going to succumb sooner or later, regardless of how he feels today.

To go along with his delusion is to enable him in his unhealthy actions.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #56 on: January 16, 2010, 03:31:15 PM »
An observation about whether the OP asked for/should receive advice.

The very act of opening a thread invites response. That's the purpose of message boards. People may not appreciate the responses they receive, the unvarnished truth rarely being welcome, but like it or not that's how these things work.

Moreover a forum such as this one is advice oriented. That's why people come here, so it's not surprising that many who have responded in this thread have done so with advice. Gratuitous or otherwise.

Opening a thread here and then saying "I wasn't asking for advice" in the face of the responses is a bit like tapping another one's foot under the stall wall and then objecting to what gets poked through the glory-hole.

Or somesuch,

MtD

Offline PeteNYNJ

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #57 on: January 16, 2010, 03:41:18 PM »
Again, what is your reasoning for not taking meds?  Have you spoken with you doctor about when/if you are going to start meds.

Maybe if you explained your decisions that seem delusional to most of us, you wouldn't be met with so much hostility?

Offline leatherman

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #58 on: January 16, 2010, 03:51:13 PM »
Excuse me for a quick highjack Etay. Someone here thinks that they are special and needs to be put in their place.

guess not.....so don't even think that you can teach me anything about this shitty disease.
Au contraire mon amie. IF you had read up about ME you wouldn't have written such a foolish sounding post. I've had cd4 counts at 5, 7, 12, 56, 64 with viral loads not quite a million (875,000; 740,000, 680,000). I've put 8 of my 11 cocker spaniels to sleep to sleep. (ah the joys of being friends with a vet) I cared for, not one but TWO, dying partners in my home (14 yrs apart) and yes it was me that administered the pain meds, thank you very much. (Jim didn't even die two years ago and I lost the car and our home because of his passing) I've lived with an avg 176 tcells for 17 yrs and have only been undetectable for 1.5 yr of all that time. There have been times I went off meds because the side effects were so horrendous, and I ended up in the hospital twice and nearly died. I've gone without meds because I couldn't afford them and because with all the resistance issues there literally wasn't anything for me to take. Sometimes I just had to pray I didn't die until something came onto the market.

Want me to start naming off the name of my friends that died from AIDS in the last 20 yrs? Quite of few of them waited until they "felt sick" and they didn't make it. Are you on meds? What prompted you to take them if you are? Don't you think Etay should follow the same medical advice? Obviously by your answer you seemed to imply that Etay should continue to not follow his own doctor's advice (see his past posts) and that we shouldn't point out the fallacy of his logic to not start treatment - that's why I suggested perhaps you needed to learn more.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #59 on: January 16, 2010, 03:58:51 PM »


   In all my time here at AM and living with this virus, I think this is the first time I've seen a person share his numbers, which indicate a trainwreck going on in his body and they not give any form of reason why they are not on meds.  No fear, nothing, just plain : I live a "good, clean life" and I am the "picture of health".

  Hope he made it to work today.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline mecch

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #60 on: January 16, 2010, 04:58:23 PM »
Denial is a defense mechanism postulated by Sigmund Freud, in which a person is faced with a fact that is too uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence. [1] The subject may use:

    * simple denial - deny the reality of the unpleasant fact altogether
    * minimisation - admit the fact but deny its seriousness, or
    * projection - admit both the fact and seriousness but deny responsibility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial

Asking this OP for his Doctor's opinion, and his own explanation - but getting no response to either.  This is denial.  The OP admits the HIV but denies the consequences of the current state of affairs.  (Stock-and-trade of the HIV denialists, by the way.)

Want to talk IRONY, instead?  The thread is called "Living with HIV".

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline PeteNYNJ

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #61 on: January 16, 2010, 04:58:49 PM »
Quote
In all my time here at AM and living with this virus, I think this is the first time I've seen a person share his numbers, which indicate a trainwreck going on in his body and they not give any form of reason why they are not on meds.  No fear, nothing, just plain : I live a "good, clean life" and I am the "picture of health".Hope he made it to work today.

Amen, Skeebo.  Also, he seems to only respond to those who somewhat agree with his decisions.  This makes me think that maybe this is someone playing around with us. 

Either way, your numbers suck so take your meds or prepare for some lengthy hospital stay which will be expensive even if you have insurance.

 Also, since you say you live in NJ, you might want do a little research as to what hospital is your better option for care.  Hackensack, Holy Name, Englewood, Robert Wood Johnson are all great hospitals.  I would stay away from Palisades General (a dump) or any of the hospitals not near a bigger city since they will have limited access to understanding HIV OI and how to treat them.  I mean you wouldn't want to sit around a ER with PCP waiting for a bed.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 05:02:53 PM by PeteNYNJ »

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #62 on: January 16, 2010, 05:19:24 PM »
...

 Also, since you say you live in NJ, you might want do a little research as to what hospital is your better option for care.  Hackensack, Holy Name, Englewood, Robert Wood Johnson are all great hospitals.  I would stay away from Palisades General (a dump) or any of the hospitals not near a bigger city since they will have limited access to understanding HIV OI and how to treat them.  I mean you wouldn't want to sit around a ER with PCP waiting for a bed.

Etay

I'm sorry if you found our replies felt hostile.  Honestly, I think we've been trying to be helpful.  And  you said the forums are invalauble to you ... so is there some other way we can help you prepare for the possibility that things will go more the way most of us expect.  Are you looking for info more like that in Pete's post (quoted above)? 

I'm in NJ too, but on the other side of the state from Pete, and there are people in Philly, New York and sometimes South Jersey.  So, if we can help you prepare somehow (for the contingency of illness) PM or tell us a little more about where you live and what we can do to help.

A
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline newt

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #63 on: January 16, 2010, 05:33:05 PM »
This thread makes me really sad, n think, WTF? the fight was for what?

Wind the clock back 15 years, I know (or knew) people who did AZT monotherapy, some are alive, some dead. The ones who didn't do triple combo are all dead.

It is a person's inalienable right to decide how their HIV is treated. Yes I believe this.

It is also without question that at CD4 count of around 70 without treatment the risk of AIDS or death in the next 6 months is 25-40%. This is a statistical fact. Clearly, don't necessarily apply to an individual, but this is the odds. Who wants to play these odds?

Yes, an inalienable right, I believe.

Loads of people died who could be walking the green hills in the sunshine now. This makes me sad.

However, some changed their mind n didn't die. This gives me hope.

I reckon the answer to the original question is probably NO.

I don't like to wear glasses but I like to read. I don't wanna take meds, but I wanna see the kids row up n graduate. It's not really about me anymore.

- matt


Now playing: Bodywserve (Warren C remix), M-Gee & Mica Paris

Edited for spelling
« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 05:54:27 PM by newt »
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline Ann

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #64 on: January 16, 2010, 05:37:35 PM »

 Also, since you say you live in NJ, you might want do a little research as to what hospital is your better option for care.


Has hospice care (end of life care) become commonplace in the States yet like it is here in the UK? Because if it is, he should probably look into which are the better hospices in NJ as well.

Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #65 on: January 16, 2010, 06:04:41 PM »
LOL, I think Etay might be a provocateur, like that woman who claimed she gave HIV to 500 people because she was bitter that a cure had not yet been found. It turns out she's negative and wanted to raise awareness. Which she did, apparently many more people than usual went in to get tested in Detroit, where she is from.

LINK:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-us-hiv-hoax,0,418979.story

(this thread is getting more and more macabre, I don't know whether to laugh or cry)
« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 06:06:30 PM by Inchlingblue »

Offline tokyodecadence

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #66 on: January 16, 2010, 10:56:06 PM »
I think the website crashed like an hour ago, I tried to respond, and got a time out error:/

In any case, being some one who is young and newly diagnosed, I would *never* believe anything like this to be factual. Especially since you've said that your doctors and everyone around you have been telling you about the dangers of what you're doing. I've been on meds for a year (omg actually this week, I just realized that), and I feel great, my life's going great, and most importantly, I have great numbers. I have a FANTASTIC team of people at my doctor's office, and I would never simply reject their advice because "I feel fine". There was nothing wrong with me what so ever when I began taking my medicine, and my numbers weren't low. I am extremely involved in *every* decision made about my health, and do extensive research on my medication and supplements, but your health care professionals are just that, professionals. And to not even entertain the prospect of beginning a regime simply because you're not currently sick is not only ridiculous, it's just plain stupid.


But I do, however, completely respect your decision. But these kinds of decisions are never based on logic. Having a healthy life style is a plus in your favor, but that's not going to save you. I sincerely hope that this course of action works out for you.

I should also mention that I sincerely hope that people in my position (young and newly poz) don't take this thread in any way, shape or form seriously. I don't know about any one else here, but I've got a ton more schooling ahead of me, and I certainly don't want to leave graduate school and step onto a death bed. :p It is completely with in your right to deny treatment. But ignoring the advice of trained professionals and people who have been in the EXACT same position that you are currently in is invariably asking to die. Period.


One more thing: You keep claiming that you've never been sick, but yet in your video, you tell two stories about how you caught a horrible flu, and also had a parasitic infection. I guess those incidents, in combination with your terrible numbers, don't mean much either.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 10:57:54 PM by toykoDecadence »
[.Fodão.]

Offline Dennis

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #67 on: January 16, 2010, 11:00:02 PM »
I would imagine there is a way for many of you to get your point across without the scare tactics.

It's one thing to point out the facts and statistics, or tell your personal story and allow etay to make an informed decision on his own. It's quite another to suggest someone start looking into hospice care or hoping they made it to work today simply because he refuses to take your advise and see it YOUR way immediately.

I think your points can be made and will be more helpful in the longterm without the morbid remarks.
 
Lets not forget that I went 11 or so years before I made the personal decision to go on meds. Despite the recommendations of doctors, family, friends, I waited until I got down to below 10 tcells and wound up in hospital with PCP before that decision was made for me. One small reason I waited was because I also felt and looked fine (hint..hint).

The decision of if and when to go on meds is a decision we all ultimately had or have to make at some point. Some of us just happen to make that decision sooner rather than later. And ultimately, we all have to live with the consequences of our decisions.

Is he pulling our leg, as some of suspect? I don't know. I personally don't see any reason to be suspicious. All I currently see is someone with a different outlook or point of view than many here are used to.

Offline PeteNYNJ

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #68 on: January 16, 2010, 11:07:48 PM »
Dennis, do you advise people to wait until they have 10 tcells and get PCP before starting meds because they feel fine?   Do you think the guidelines given by the medical community are just to be ignored?

I have asked WHY would you wait so long to go on meds?  Why chance getting sick, especially since it has been proven time and time again that the lower your Tcells are, the more horrible life threatening diseases you are at risk for acquiring? 

Maybe if he gave any kind of rationale besides "I feel fine" people would be more prone to understand what he is going through. 

Offline tokyodecadence

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #69 on: January 16, 2010, 11:15:46 PM »
I would imagine there is a way for many of you to get your point across without the scare tactics.

No, actually, there isn't. Why? Because HIV is a scary thing, even while on meds, and with good numbers. I'd be scared sh*tless if my numbers began to dip below 100, let alone 71. I wouldn't so much as call them "scare tactics", as they're more cold, hard facts.

But you are right Dennis, if or when to start meds is a completely personal decision. But for him to sit here and paint some rosy picture of not starting meds because he feels fine and has yet to be hospitalized is a ridiculous generalization. That's like saying that there's no such thing as world hunger because you have a pack of top ramen in your cabinet. His not taking meds is totally fine, but his touting his numbers like he's some super hero with the power to have AIDS and not get sick is not. He is going to get sick at some point. It's just a matter of when. You yourself of proof of this.
[.Fodão.]

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #70 on: January 16, 2010, 11:17:51 PM »
Dennis,

      Fact of the matter is he posted in a public forum.  He is going to get responses of varying opinions.  You may slap him on the back and say great job, leatherman may think he's in for trouble, and then you have my simple take calling bullshit.   To say we are wrong for not being more open to his decisions or suggesting him to seek a comfotable mattress to die on would be equally as wrong as us telling you not to coax the guy in his ill fated decisions.  We respect your open mind concerning this issue just like you can respect us... the right wing and simple minded. ;)

     I still got that pocket calculator by the way, those 70 Cd4's are not far off your 10.


   Since he's in Jersey we can call him The Real Situation!!
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Dennis

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #71 on: January 16, 2010, 11:28:09 PM »
Pete, no I don't advise or suggest others do what I did (I mentioned that in my first reply here). That's also why I tried to be subtle with my hint in my post above.  However, the decisions I made for myself worked for ME (luckily).

And I honestly believe if I followed the "guidelines" that were preached to me in the early 90's I wouldn't be doing as well as I am today. Of course, things are much differenttoday. But then again, that's why they are called guidelines. I don't want to hijack etays thread with a story about my decisions though.

I just think we can respect his current decision (although it differs from many here) and disseminate the information to help him and others reading this thread make and informed decision without the morbid comments.


Dennis, do you advise people to wait until they have 10 tcells and get PCP before starting meds because they feel fine?   Do you think the guidelines given by the medical community are just to be ignored?

I have asked WHY would you wait so long to go on meds?  Why chance getting sick, especially since it has been proven time and time again that the lower your Tcells are, the more horrible life threatening diseases you are at risk for acquiring? 

Maybe if he gave any kind of rationale besides "I feel fine" people would be more prone to understand what he is going through. 

Offline leatherman

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #72 on: January 16, 2010, 11:35:44 PM »
It's quite another to suggest someone start looking into hospice care or hoping they made it to work today
hey, that's nothing different than I told some of my friends in the mid 90s. I'd get them here to confirm that I offered that advice, but since they didn't listen to me, or the instructions from their doctors, they're all dead and can't confirm anything. I mean when you personally see that (low counts end in death) happen hundreds of times, I just can't assume that Etay is going to be the special one to not end up in the grave.

You and me are some of the lucky ones (with the counts we've reached and not taking meds) but think of all the people we know who weren't lucky and aren't here. Are you going to guarantee that Etay is going to be a "lucky one" too, or would you suggest that he get on meds - just like you and I are on meds.

Lets not forget that I went 11 or so years before I made the personal decision to go on meds. Despite the recommendations of doctors, family, friends, I waited until I got down to below 10 tcells and wound up in hospital with PCP before that decision was made for me. One small reason I waited was because I also felt and looked fine (hint..hint).

The decision of if and when to go on meds is a decision we all ultimately had or have to make at some point.
according to your story, you did NOT make the decision. You foolishly waited because you felt fine until you ended up in the hospital and meds were forced on you to keep you alive. You said it right there in your own words. Your story is the perfect argument for showing Etay why he should be on meds. Obviously Etay is probably going to have to learn the lesson the hard way too - just like you did. Hopefully he won't end up dead like countless others just as foolish as you and Etay.

I just think we can respect his current decision (although it differs from many here)
no i don't have to respect a stupid personal decision that goes against the truth of proven medical scientific data and facts.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Dennis

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #73 on: January 16, 2010, 11:38:25 PM »
Dennis,

      Fact of the matter is he posted in a public forum.  He is going to get responses of varying opinions.  You may slap him on the back and say great job, leatherman may think he's in for trouble, and then you have my simple take calling bullshit.   To say we are wrong for not being more open to his decisions or suggesting him to seek a comfotable mattress to die on would be equally as wrong as us telling you not to coax the guy in his ill fated decisions.  We respect your open mind concerning this issue just like you can respect us... the right wing and simple minded. ;)

     I still got that pocket calculator by the way, those 70 Cd4's are not far off your 10.


   Since he's in Jersey we can call him The Real Situation!!

Hey, to each his own. Obviously, based by the lack of replies you all have received, the scare tactics, morbid remarks, and accusations ain't working. So do you keep going down that road or do you try a different approach in order to get your point across and make him realize the urgency?

Perhaps you should upgrade your pocket calculator in for a scientific calculator to get the answer to that last question ;)

Offline leatherman

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #74 on: January 16, 2010, 11:55:50 PM »
Hey, to each his own. Obviously, based by the lack of replies you all have received, the scare tactics, morbid remarks, and accusations ain't working.
sometimes it takes the truth a while to sink in. ;)

I didn't demand, or expect, that Etay would change his behavior immediately. In my part of the world it's Sat and he couldn't do much about it anyway - unless those prescriptions his doctor wrote out (that he never filled) haven't expired yet. ;) I don't mind keeping up on the "scare tactics" until Etay changes his way or until he ends up dying. I would do the same for anyone trying to commit suicide - which is what Etay is doing in a long round-about way.

And Etay, I do hope that you realize by now that what you thought was "hostility" was simply our respect for perserving life and keeping you from making a terrible mistake that will probably lead to your death in the near future. To me, you don't look like the "face of AIDS", you look like a man that has stepped into the middle of oncoming traffic and I'm desperately trying to persuade you to step back onto the curb and save your life.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline anniebc

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #75 on: January 17, 2010, 12:01:00 AM »
Oh dear, when are you guys going to learn..73 post and only 8 from the OP and in 7 of them all he had to say was "thank you for agreeing with me"..the whole thing is bullshit and you guys fell for it, and before too long you will all be arguing between yourselves and will be at each others throat while the OP sits back and has good old laugh at your expence..

If he has a death wish and doesn't want to take his meds..that's down to him..I think it's time to put this thread to bed and let him get his fun somewhere else.

OP...1
Members..0

Jan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline Dennis

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #76 on: January 17, 2010, 12:01:38 AM »
according to your story, you did NOT make the decision. You foolishly waited because you felt fine until you ended up in the hospital and meds were forced on you to keep you alive. You said it right there in your own words. Your story is the perfect argument for showing Etay why he should be on meds. Obviously Etay is probably going to have to learn the lesson the hard way too - just like you did. Hopefully he won't end up dead like countless others just as foolish as you and Etay.

Can't argue with you too much here. However, HIV meds weren't forced on me in the hospital. I was in from December 24 through January 5th. I didn't actually begin taking meds for HIV until February. But you are correct, the PCP had much to do with my decision.

You'll also notice I put a little hint...hint after my brief synopsis to get across what waiting until a low tcell count can do despite how you feel.

Again, I don't suggest he put off going on meds. I do respect his decision; one only which he can make.

Can you imagine if the AidsMeds lessons were written like some of the "advise" being dished out here.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #77 on: January 17, 2010, 12:02:00 AM »
Perhaps you should upgrade your pocket calculator in for a scientific calculator to get the answer to that last question ;)

I'm just thanking God that I ain't the one sporting the Terminator glasses..  LMAO!  Look folks, they block the bullshit equally as well as the sun!
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 12:04:46 AM by skeebo1969 »
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #78 on: January 17, 2010, 12:28:07 AM »
I believe if you watch Etay's video in the other thread you will get a better understanding of where he is coming from and why he is not taking HIV medications. I don't agree with his decision not to be on medication but I think I understand the place he is in.

Offline Dennis

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #79 on: January 17, 2010, 12:30:36 AM »
I'm just thanking God that I ain't the one sporting the Terminator glasses..  LMAO!  Look folks, they block the bullshit equally as well as the sun!

LOL! You live in S. Florida. With the amount of bullshit down here you do what you can to repell. You got your trusty calculator. I got my glasses.

Honestly though. Would a bullshitter go as far as plastering his face across YouTube and identifying as the "face of AIDS?" Pretty ballsy I think for someone who is presumed to be pulling a fast one over on us.

When I view the video I see someone who is not fully educated in regards to HIV/AIDS and UNDOUBTEDLY scared on the inside, despite what he says.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 12:38:24 AM by Dennis »

Offline tokyodecadence

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #80 on: January 17, 2010, 12:41:59 AM »
Honestly though. Would a bullshitter go as far as plastering his face across YouTube and identifying as the "face of AIDS?" Pretty ballsy I think for someone who is presumed to be pulling a fast one over on us.

When I view the video I see someone who is uneducated in regards to HIV/AIDS and UNDOUBTEDLY scared on the inside, despite what he says.

Agreed.
[.Fodão.]

Offline Moffie65

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #81 on: January 17, 2010, 11:22:42 AM »
Why is there such hostility? .......................... Why are we allowing my choice to not take HIV medication to cause a disturance between our correspondence with each other?

Because I have seen walking dead men, like you, far too often, and have buried 205 of them.  

Etay, you confess to be living a wholesome and "clean" life, yet you cannot, or will not understand that your heart is far from "wholesome".   Otherwise you wouldn't be so nasty to those here who have the "actual heart" to respond to your insanity, and do so with such unconditional love for you.  

I see and know you are trying to make a point, and to sustain your own ethos, at the same time, making those of us who have lived this life, both the way you are and otherwise, seem so trite.  I know many people who lived like you are and wore your shoes.  Unfortunately I cannot and will not point you to them because they are already on the other side.  DEAD!!!!

If you are not capable of seeing that those of us who have responded to try to steer you in the direction of life, and still think you are THE ONE ON THE PLANET that can conquer this bug with a “clean life”, then there is no hope for you, and you will soon succumb to this bug, which will with all certainty, kill you.

Where do you want me to send flowers?  They will of course be plastic, because fresh ones are far more than I can afford for someone who so obviously desires death over living.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 11:24:59 AM by Moffie65 »
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline mecch

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #82 on: January 17, 2010, 12:02:33 PM »
Lets not forget that I went 11 or so years before I made the personal decision to go on meds. Despite the recommendations of doctors, family, friends, I waited until I got down to below 10 tcells and wound up in hospital with PCP before that decision was made for me. One small reason I waited was because I also felt and looked fine (hint..hint).

Feeling and looking fine is a pretty damn stupid reason when you have doctors telling you that you are not fine.  Its fine and dandy to do what you like, make your own decisions. 
However, the OP and you, as well, have the obligation in a public discussion to give full disclosure that you are aware that the entire history of this epidemic does not support your decisions as "good for health".
I think you have done so.
The OP has not.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline BM

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #83 on: January 17, 2010, 01:20:24 PM »
Why is there such hostility?  I highly doubt you would feel so strongly if I were smoking, not getting proper rest, or eating unhealthy. All of which will send you to an early grave. Why are we allowing my choice to not take HIV medication to cause a disturance between our correspondence with each other?
I felt absolutely fine right up till I found myself knocking on death's door. It really did come out of the blue (although I had no idea I was positive).

Most of the posters have either experienced first hand the effects of having such a dangerously low t-cell count or witnessed the effects in others. I think you're confusing hostility with a genuine concern for your wellbeing. With your numbers, not taking HIV medication represents a much greater threat to your health than any of smoking, not getting proper rest, or eating unhealthily.

Offline max123

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #84 on: January 17, 2010, 02:08:30 PM »
etay,

i had previously asked you why you were adverse to hiv meds, but haven't gotten a response yet. accordingly, i've since read some of your recent posts regarding this topic to get a better feel where you're coming from. i couldn't grasp whether you were simply unaware of the likely ramifications associated with your current numbers, whether you're an anti-drug kinda dude in general, whether you want to believe that you're a ltnp or whether you simply want to die. it's hard to guage things through the online medium due to the limited personal interaction thing.

in looking at your posts, two things that stood out to me were: 1) you acknowledged you were envious of another member's cd4 count in the 100's and 2) you said that you were more or less "waiting for a sign that you were sick." from that, i'm guessing that you're referring to a physiological cue of sorts. that's the confusing part for me, as you've already gotten that: your steadiliy declining cd4 and inclining vl counts. your keeping yourself in great shape is likely why you haven't "felt" physically sick, but it doesn't negate the fact that the virus is having it's way with you internally, which you reportedly haven't yet felt. this can be considered akin to a marathon runner, in top condition, not acknowledging that he/she is developing a degenerative & progressive cardiomyopathy despite diagnostic tests showing such, until that runner one day suddenly collapses on the track in full heart failure. whether or not that runner has lost so much heart muscle by this point and that he/she will respond to medical treatment is a crapshoot. if the runner does survive, what will that person's quality of life be like (?), as once that heart muscle is damaged & gone, it's gone forever. 'i'm hoping that you see the parallel here and don't get caught up on the clinical semantics of this example. it's simply a different way of looking at the same scenario.

your thread responders, in varied delivery styles, all express a single commonality: to provide you with education through experience & knowledge about how you can potentially raise your cd4s and avoid a crisis. that's the purpose of this type of forum, and remember, member posts are cumulative and what you say in one thread will carry over to another. rather than seeing their passionate commentaries as hostility, maybe appreciate the time that people have taken out of their lives to support you and give consideration to the common message they are all trying to send your way.

wishing you well.

max

(edited to include) ps: i just watched your vid. in it so you stated that you "embrace" having a 71 cd4. from the following quote, i thought that you felt oppositely:
Wow!    121 t-cells?  I'm envious!  Mine were 71 the last time I had labs done.  

and you didn't take meds to treat your parasitic infection? how was it eradicated... was it something self limiting like giardiasis?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 09:55:00 PM by max123 »
1/86 - 6/08 (annually): neg elisa
7/09: pos elisa/pos wb
8/09: cd4 560, cd4% 35, vl 13,050
12/09: cd4 568, cd4% 33, vl 2,690
4/10: cd4 557, cd4% 29.3, vl 6,440
7/10: cd4 562, cd4% 29.6, vl 3,780

Offline Dsd09

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #85 on: January 17, 2010, 02:20:51 PM »
Hey Etay

I just watched your video.

You mention being the picture of health, but other than your numbers telling you otherwise there's other signs there.

You're the same age as I am, and clean living as you say. But it's not normal for a clean living 29 year old to develop parasitic infections - that's got to be a serious warning sign.

And also, maybe its bad light or bad recording, maybe its the long 80 hour weeks or perhaps it's just even me, but your eyes are telling another story.

I wish you all the best
07/2009 - Diagnosis
08/2009 - CD4 354 / VL 4700
09/2009 - CD4 286 / VL 3200
10/2009 - CD4 249 / VL n/a - Started Truvada / Sustiva
12/2009 - CD4 318 / VL <40
01/2010 - CD4 316 / VL <40 - Switched Atripla
04/2010 - CD4 370 / VL <40
12/2010 - CD4 342 / VL <40

Offline BlueMoon

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #86 on: January 17, 2010, 02:42:58 PM »
Oh dear, when are you guys going to learn..73 post and only 8 from the OP and in 7 of them all he had to say was "thank you for agreeing with me"..the whole thing is bullshit and you guys fell for it, and before too long you will all be arguing between yourselves and will be at each others throat while the OP sits back and has good old laugh at your expence..

If he has a death wish and doesn't want to take his meds..that's down to him..I think it's time to put this thread to bed and let him get his fun somewhere else.

OP...1
Members..0

Jan

 ;)
...................VL.....CD4.....%
-----------------------------------------
08/10-- ......<40.....290.....42
05/10-- ......<48.....290.....46
02/10-- ......<48.....481.....44
10/09-- ......<48.....277.....46
07/09-- ......<48.....300.....38
05/09-- ........51.....449.....39
03/09-- Added Isentress
02/09-- ........65.....299.....34
11/08-- ........62.....242.....40
08/08-- ........66.....212.....29
05/08-- ......202.....217.....27
03/08-- ....5210.....187.....21
02/08-- Began Truvada/Reyataz/Norvir
12/07-- 273,000.....157.....22
11/07-- 229,000.....209.....22
10/07-- Diagnosis

It's a complex world.

Offline mecch

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #87 on: January 17, 2010, 04:30:17 PM »
Bluemoon,
Watch the video, it does not seem like bullshit to me.
Otherwise I agree we are chatting amongst ourselves, Coffee Talk Linda Richman style.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Brad Pritt

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #88 on: January 17, 2010, 09:22:30 PM »
This Etay is a clear denialist. He has been jerking all over the (blocked organisation name) forum.

edited by Ann to remove a denialist website reference
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 08:53:21 AM by Ann »

Offline leatherman

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #89 on: January 17, 2010, 09:46:50 PM »
This Etay is a clear denialist. He has been jerking all over the (blocked organisation name) forum.
Ah! ;) Thank you for that information Brad.


edited by Ann to remove a denialist website reference
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 08:54:40 AM by Ann »
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #90 on: January 17, 2010, 10:10:26 PM »

  Proof is in the damn pudding :

 Maybe I shouldn't provide the link..  anyone wants to see just google his name and [blocked URL]exposed.


  Said it all along..
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 10:12:09 PM by skeebo1969 »
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline mecch

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #91 on: January 17, 2010, 11:52:32 PM »
Denial is a defense mechanism postulated by Sigmund Freud, in which a person is faced with a fact that is too uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence. [1] The subject may use:

    * simple denial - deny the reality of the unpleasant fact altogether
    * minimisation - admit the fact but deny its seriousness, or
    * projection - admit both the fact and seriousness but deny responsibility.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial

Asking this OP for his Doctor's opinion, and his own explanation - but getting no response to either.  This is denial.  The OP admits the HIV but denies the consequences of the current state of affairs.  (Stock-and-trade of the HIV denialists, by the way.)

Want to talk IRONY, instead?  The thread is called "Living with HIV".


I quote myself. 
OP is in denial about the consequences of HIV infection.  He may have something to say in HIV Denialist forums but I haven't read there.  So far in AIDSMEDS he has not in my opinion prosthelytized for a specifically HIV Denialist agenda.  He has, rather, embodied denial in the psychological sense.

I don't think OP has posted here to antagonize members.  I take it at face value that ETAY would like to believe and hear that he's gonna be fine from others.  That ETAY can't respond to contrary information is puzzling.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #92 on: January 18, 2010, 12:16:30 AM »
I guess I'll spell it out. He says his church is Pentecostal Holiness, aka "Holy Rollers". They believe in speaking in tongues and faith healing. He keeps track of his CD4 for the same reason some religious people handle snakes: God will keep him safe if he has faith. The worse his CD4 the greater evidence that he is not like the bad people who have HIV and need to take medications. He is an African-American male whose primary support is a conservative church that doesn't accept homosexuality. He makes it clear he doesn't want to identify with the drug addicts, promiscuous people and homosexuals. If he doesn't get sick he continues to be special and if he does get sick then part of him feels he deserves it.

Normally I would keep these opinions to myself but I am hoping Etay will read this, get pissed off and resume communication on the forum.

Offline tokyodecadence

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #93 on: January 18, 2010, 12:24:49 AM »
I guess I'll spell it out. He says his church is Pentecostal Holiness, aka "Holy Rollers".

Lawl.
[.Fodão.]

Offline mecch

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #94 on: January 18, 2010, 04:36:37 AM »
Yes gymrat, in a nut shell, I didn't dare say it myself.
And for this reason I do not feel that he qualifies as an AIDS denialist as we normally understand that label and there is NO reason to lock his threads here. 

Rather, OP's wall of denial must be torn down if he is to survive.

Best.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Etay1207

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #95 on: January 18, 2010, 09:34:20 AM »
Hello all, we really need to put a stop to this.  This going back and forth is really RIDICULOUS.

Gymrat: I understand why you said what you did. I was raised Seventh-Day Adventist and came over into pentecostalism when I was a teenager.  SDA's and Pentecostals (I hope I don't offend anybody) do tend to be ONE WAY thinkers.  I am not that way AT ALL!  I would often get rebuked when I was in my early twenties for questing things that didn't make sense.  I am not a Jesus ONLY person.  I don't even believe in divine healing.  So this assumption that I'm waiting to get deathly ill for the Lord to heal me is absured!  I am openly gay.  I attend an openly gay christian church which worships in the pentecostal tradition.  So, I am OUT.  I'm out about my sexual orientation, I'm out about my HIV status, with me, what you see is what you get! 

Brad: of course I go on the dissident's forums.  I am not so arrogant to say that MY WAY is the only RIGHT WAY.  And I am not afraid to read and possibly learn from someone with opposing views as my own.  I am a left-brained thinker, so I don't respond well to fear and intimidation. (probably why I couldn't grasp the fire and brimstone messages of the traditional pentecostals).  Give me the FACTS and allow me to make my own decision.  I know very well the risk of having a low t-cell count, and I am MAN enough to live with my decision. 

I am in close contact with my doctor of 11 years. My nurse and I speak every month or so to update her on how I'm doing and to answer any questions I might have.  I go to a traditional doctor at an ID clinic here in NJ.

I see that most of you missed the point of my YouTube video.  Christians (again I hope I don't offend anybody) sometimes tend to push issues under the rug and wait for God to work them out.  There are alot of young people in the church who don't know who to go to.  Alot of them cannot come out about their HIV status because they must deal with the shame of pre-marital sex and then they will have to admit that not only had they "sinned", but were irresponsible and didn't use protection, and now they are dealing with "GOD'S WRATH".   That type of thinking is a strong-hold for many people.  The purpose of the video is to bring awareness that HIV is in the CHRISTIAN CHURCH! And that people in the church SHOULD feel comfortable to deal with their issues among their own peers and associates (especially those in the church who CLAIM to love everybody). 

As for why I'm not on medication for HIV.  That is a personal decision that I made.  I don't feel as if I have to explain myself to ANYBODY.  Alot of my friends are poz and most of them are on meds.  NEVER have I encouraged someone to stop their meds and be like me.  I celebrate with them when they reach UD just as I celebrate with many of you on this forum when you reach UD or your t-cells go up. 

POZ since 1999
1/07 tcells: 530 vl: 72,922 7/07 tcells: 542 vl: 26,577
9/08 tcells: 339 vl: 56,120  7/09 tcells: 267 vl: 663,160
11/09 tcells: 71 vl: 498,670 2/10 tcells: 52 vl: 322,000
 no meds and feeling great!

Offline Moffie65

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #96 on: January 18, 2010, 09:44:41 AM »
In Jesus' Name, Amen.

OK, Church is over, light em up if you got em.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline Etay1207

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #97 on: January 18, 2010, 10:12:54 AM »
One more thing I forgot to mention. The purpose of starting this thread is pretty much clear cut. I was looking for others with "bad" numbers who weren't on meds, and didn't have any OI's at the present time. I know a couple of you, like Ann, are not on meds, but her numbers are still good.  I know what type of forum this is so I wouldn't expect to find many.  In no way did I post for entertainment purposes as some of you have stated. One: my maturity level is too high for that; two: I just don't have that kind of time. I was not looking for advice. What could you possibly tell me that I haven't heard before? I read many of your stories on these forums and I appreciate you guys for telling your stories and being so open and vunerable.  I kind of see you guys as extended family and enjoy reading about your lives and experiences with this disease and experiences in life in general.  I hope to meet most of you at the gathering later this year.  I would love to see you guys face to face.
POZ since 1999
1/07 tcells: 530 vl: 72,922 7/07 tcells: 542 vl: 26,577
9/08 tcells: 339 vl: 56,120  7/09 tcells: 267 vl: 663,160
11/09 tcells: 71 vl: 498,670 2/10 tcells: 52 vl: 322,000
 no meds and feeling great!

Offline Moffie65

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #98 on: January 18, 2010, 10:40:08 AM »
I hope to meet most of you at the gathering later this year.  I would love to see you guys face to face.

Us too, but I need to caution you that traveling with a wheelchair is a pain in the butt.  Would you like me to throw my spare wheelchair in the trunk for you?  I will be taking my electric, but will have room for the folding manual model.

Cheers, hope to meet and pray with you then.  :)

P.S.  Sorry, forgot to warn you about the Shingles.  They are often the first sign of a failing immune system, but you have already had the parasitic infection, so watch out, the Shingles are on the way soon, especially if you let yourself get any stress in your life.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2010, 10:43:32 AM by Moffie65 »
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline komnaes

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Re: Low t-cell and healthy?
« Reply #99 on: January 18, 2010, 12:03:57 PM »
I attend an openly gay christian church which worships in the pentecostal tradition...  

A gay-friendly pentecostal church? Probably the most anti-gay church denomination of all? And in New Jersey? A state where some of the most vocally anti-gay christianist leaders are pentecostal, including a Democrat sen. called Ruben Diaz Sr, a pentecostal minister, who's the leading the opposition against gay marriage? I would really be very interested to find out more about this church you're attending .. I am sure it's truly exceptional.
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

 


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