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Poll

Are you religious?

Yes, I'm religious, I believe and practise one of the traditional major faiths
7 (24.1%)
I'm spiritual, not religious
12 (41.4%)
I'm agnostic
4 (13.8%)
No, I'm an atheist
6 (20.7%)

Total Members Voted: 29

Author Topic: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?  (Read 4378 times)

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Offline lydgate

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Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« on: August 19, 2006, 07:34:41 PM »
Just curious again; partly because I read so many responses to tense or bad news which go, You're in my prayers tonight.

Jay
Her finely-touched spirit had still its fine issues, though they were not widely visible. Her full nature, like that river of which Cyrus broke the strength, spent itself in channels which had no great name on the earth. But the effect of her being on those around her was incalculably diffusive: for the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and me as they might have been, is half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited tombs.

George Eliot, Middlemarch, final paragraph

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2006, 08:03:42 PM »
I don't pray per se, but I do meditate.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2006, 08:22:34 PM »
Miltant atheist here.

MtD

Offline lydgate

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2006, 08:25:50 PM »
I grew up in a religious family. That is: my grandparents both believed and practised, my parents believed (believe) but practised (practise) in a desultory way, my brother and I neither believe nor practise. I remember the moment of my de-conversion, at the age of eight, pretty vividly: visiting the temple with granny, I remember thinking, This is silly!
Her finely-touched spirit had still its fine issues, though they were not widely visible. Her full nature, like that river of which Cyrus broke the strength, spent itself in channels which had no great name on the earth. But the effect of her being on those around her was incalculably diffusive: for the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and me as they might have been, is half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited tombs.

George Eliot, Middlemarch, final paragraph

Offline Teresa

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2006, 12:23:51 AM »
Practicing Christian here!

I pray for everyone here at the forums!

Hugs
Teresa
Hubby HIV+ 5/5/06
CD4:320
  %: 26.7
 VL: <20
Atripla (started it 8/24/06)
 

Offline DanielMark

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2006, 04:54:31 AM »
I cannot deny my spiritual life is one of the reasons I'm still alive and healthy after 18 years (it'll be 19 next month) living with HIV.

What I find amusing is how afraid people are of a force that can be such an ally in our troubled world.

Of course I can also understand  the ways "religions" warp the world doesn't make the idea of God look very appealing.

Daniel
MEDS: REYATAZ & KIVEXA (SINCE AUG 2008)

MAY 2000 LAB RESULTS: CD4 678
VL STILL UNDETECTABLE

DIAGNOSED IN 1988

Offline CalvinC

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2006, 07:56:05 AM »
Likely Jay, you have a spiritual life; you just don't recognize it in a traditional or institutional way. And yes, it is key to regaining calm and a stress-free life.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2006, 08:30:32 AM »
Religion is the opiate of the people.

Offline Ann

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2006, 09:16:03 AM »
Hmm...

Just wondering if this thread should have been called "Idol curiosity"?
 
:D

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2006, 10:24:15 AM »
I don't pray. But when I write sometimes, it's like prayer, or meditation. It's that whacked-out attempt to find order in chaos, even if I have to make it up from scratch. It's trying to locate, or touch, or manufacture if I have to, some connection with the incessant hum of the universe.

I did say it was whacked out.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Sae

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2006, 10:47:04 AM »
I was raised Catholic, very staunch Catholic....or do I mean to say it was rammed down my throat (not literally).  My parents remain Catholic enthusiasts and live their lives through the Church, with the Church and for the Church.

I've wavered;  at times I think its ok....if that's what they need to handle life....I'm good with that, but other times that's a slippery slope.  I'm not good with it when they obtain their approval/forgiveness from the Church and therefore 'God', when it really should be addressed or apologized to the human in question.  I'm not good with their judgmental attitudes and I'm really not good with how they handle those parts of life, which do not fit the Catholic view.  Maybe its them, but I think their over the top Catholicism is a large part of it.

That's not me so I've digressed.

My ex-husband had no faith, it was a problem because there was no flexibility on his part for anyone's beliefs.  Now, the boyfriend has the same background as me and it makes a difference to me, a positive difference.  I disagree with much of the Catholic dogma but for whatever reason I think my faith in 'whatever' has improved. Having a common background between us helps.

Sae.
Meh.

Offline ademas

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2006, 10:52:23 AM »
I suppose I'm agnostic, but I'm even on the fence with that.

For some reason, the "I'm not religious--I'm spiritual" thing doesn't sit well with me.  I suppose I don't understand it.

I do meditate, and I've been to some wonderful workshops and lectures that could be described as spiritual or religious in nature, and they have helped me cope with difficult situations over the years.  I always feel it's more of a biofeedback thing, though, rather than anything religious or spiritual.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2006, 11:12:23 AM »
Ok Atheists,

The cock sucker open minded "spiritual" types are winning this. Let's get to work and we're gonna rub out the Iowa based Cow-worshipper who started this thread.

;D

MtD

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2006, 11:17:32 AM »
mmm. Cow.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2006, 11:22:22 AM »
Well fuck, I tried.

This place was so much more fun before the "poz.com" people turned up.  ;D

Just sayin'

MtD
(Who knows that smileys........................... blah blah blah)

Offline jack

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2006, 11:25:18 AM »
I am your basic pick and choose Catholic.  Ever notice the similarity of a nuns wardrobe and that of women of certain middle east countries that practice a religion I will not mention so I wont be accused of anything? And why cant a woman become a priest? Why are all these religions run by guys with rules to keep the women as second class citizens? Cause if you give a woman an inch she will want 10. Just kidding.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2006, 11:29:51 AM »
.....I'm spiritual not religious... Episcopalians are Catholics who just can't cut it...Sunnis are piss-poor Muslims...Hindus don't eat cows, but the true believer drinks their own piss... Evangelicals think the earth is six thousand years old...

C'mon spiritualists...you are ducking the question. Do you or don't you? You won't go to heaven gazing at your navel.


 ???

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2006, 11:38:03 AM »
All spiritualists are cowards. I'd rather spend my last hours on earth with a satanist than an American.

MtD

Offline Sae

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2006, 12:25:09 PM »
Matty said cocksucker.
LMAO!

Sae
(who said 'fuck off' in church once and is surely going to hell)
Meh.

Offline ademas

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2006, 12:45:14 PM »
To my credit, I gave my first blowjob at the age of 15 in the t-room of a mormon church.
xox

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2006, 12:47:57 PM »
To my credit, I gave my first blowjob at the age of 15 in the t-room of a mormon church.
xox


.....atta girl!!!! ;)

Offline jack

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2006, 12:57:41 PM »
Now we are getting somewhere. This will surely lead to a thread on when and where everyone performed their first BJ.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2006, 01:00:28 PM »
Odd, I don't vividly remember the performance. The rehearsals, however, were unforgetable :)

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline penguin

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2006, 01:12:05 PM »
nada, zip, in terms of religious belief.

i do believe in people, actual here-on-earth people, with their own strength and light and potential for change.

I am, as I once attempted to explain to a room full of N.A. groupies, my own Higher Power  :)

Kate




Offline penguin

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2006, 01:21:18 PM »
*note to self* when asked if you want to review posts made while you've been typing...SAY YES...  :)


Offline CalvinC

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2006, 02:12:57 PM »
I was raised Catholic, very staunch Catholic....or do I mean to say it was rammed down my throat (not literally).  My parents remain Catholic enthusiasts and live their lives through the Church, with the Church and for the Church.
Sae.

Someone once told me that the Catholic Church makes a home in you, all that ritual and repetition. And it's true; it will never leave me, though I try to leave it. When I diagnosed, I went to Church a few times and found it immensely comforting. Being able to say all the layman parts by heart was an opiate, sure, but I'll take comfort where I can find it.

Offline MoltenStorm

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2006, 02:37:27 PM »
Religion is man's futile attempt to reach the Divine. Faith is the Divine's way of reaching man.

Religion does its job very effectively. It controls the mindless masses who would rather follow than think for themselves. The only problem is that those mindless masses are still allowed the right to vote.

Satanism is still a religion, MtD. It is merely the opposite of spirituality in that they focus on the pleasures of the body rather than bettering the soul/spirit.

I'm probably what one would call a Gnostic.

Molten
(Who researched Satanism, and still owns a copy of the Satanic Bible)

(Disclaimer: Referring to Organized Religion as an insitution, not individual practitioners)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2006, 02:40:37 PM by MoltenStorm »
"Love is always patient and kind. It is never jealous. Love is never boastful nor conceited. It is never rude or selfish. It does not take offense and is not resentful. Love takes no pleasure in other people's sins, but delights in the truth. It is always ready to excuse, to trust, to hope, and to endure whatever comes." - 1 Corinthians 13:4-7, adaptation in A Walk To Remember

CD4: 555 / 29% / Undetectable - 7 Nov 2006
CD4: 555 / 29% / Undetectable - 5 Feb 2007

Offline jack

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2006, 02:51:50 PM »
so people who believe in God shouldn't be allowed to vote? All people who believe in God are mindless? Must be nice to be in such an intelligent minority.

Should we allow people who don't pay taxes to vote? What about people who are on the govt tit? Why should they be able to vote? They are just gonna vote to increase their benefits.

Who is more mindless, a person who gets HIV or someone who because of their religious beliefs doesn't partake in the sexual practices that leads to hiv infection?As an infected hiv leper, I have to say I am a dumb MFer for getting this virus.

Offline lydgate

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2006, 03:09:30 PM »
Andrew: Well, if you make it true by definition that everyone has a spiritual side, but some people just don't recognize it, then yes, of course I'm "spiritual." But why should I grant you your premiss? Or, to put it differently, why is it hard to accept that I am a devout atheist (oxymoron intended) and deeply unspiritual? Jay
Her finely-touched spirit had still its fine issues, though they were not widely visible. Her full nature, like that river of which Cyrus broke the strength, spent itself in channels which had no great name on the earth. But the effect of her being on those around her was incalculably diffusive: for the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and me as they might have been, is half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited tombs.

George Eliot, Middlemarch, final paragraph

Offline ACinKC

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2006, 03:28:53 PM »
Time to go to church....



Im with matty on this one.  Although, I bet he MAY choose his last day differently if he met THIS American!  Who has been down under, but not as far as the "Lord of the Rings" territory!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2006, 08:51:36 PM »
oh please. can you say STEREOTYPE? not everyone who goes to church is part of a herd, just like not everyone with HIV is a homosexual male

Offline CalvinC

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2006, 08:53:56 PM »
Andrew: Well, if you make it true by definition that everyone has a spiritual side, but some people just don't recognize it, then yes, of course I'm "spiritual." But why should I grant you your premiss? Or, to put it differently, why is it hard to accept that I am a devout atheist (oxymoron intended) and deeply unspiritual? Jay

If you were deeply unspiritual, jay, I doubt you would be half the kind of wonderful person I think you are. One can be atheist and still be spiritual; it arises from the kind of emotional wherewithal that cannot be suffused by your keen intellectual engagement. Even aesthetic appreciation--in art, music, literature--might be thought of as spiritual, the fulfillment of that ineffable "something more."

Andrew

Offline Life

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2006, 09:04:53 PM »
Became a Christian after meeting MtD.....

Born and raised... Still going strong...

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2006, 09:21:11 PM »
I am uncomfortable with the notions of spirituality and religiosity. It always ends up asking me to subscrtibe to something. My notions of the universe, reality, and love and death are really personal, and really difficult to articulate. Dogma terrifies me, even though I see how it is a comfort. I have incense too, and sometimes I light it. Sometimes, I sit in the dark with music playing, and try and figure out what's sacred and what's not.

Sometimes I think I come close to something real, illuminating, vibrant. Sometimes I just sing to the music. Sometimes such contemplation just makes the world seem impossibly large and hostile, so I go and kiss my pets on the muzzle until they push me away with their paws. Sometimes I feel like nothing we do here matters, that we're just elemental particles whirling in some incomprehensible soup. And sometimes I actually feel really, really important, like I am here for a purpose and a reason.

I anthropomorphisize (spelling!) my pets, I know. I do the same to myself and the world as I comprehend it, I suspect. I don't have the hatred towards religion that a lot of folks have. Mainly because I am just as guilty of trying to create order from chaos, to find patterns and meanings in the most casual and inconsequential moments.

We seek some sort of connection. I think we all do.  Me, I feel like I am walking in the dark, with a three prong adapter in my hand, looking for some outlet in which it fits. Hoping, even occasionally believing, that there must be a fit... because if not, then why make this plug?

God/dess help me if I ever find that outlet. I fear the resulting light would certainly burn me right up.

« Last Edit: August 23, 2006, 09:23:17 PM by jkinatl2 »
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline lydgate

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2006, 10:13:29 PM »
One more quibble: the aesthetic, the moral, and the spiritual are separate categories for me (with blurry edges). I do not think that either creating art or appreciating it has to be a spiritual experience (though sometimes it can be). Some of the most refined aesthetes I've known -- in books and in real life -- have also been appalling human beings. Haven't we all read about the Nazi officers at Auschwitz or Birkenau who wept tears at the pathos of, say, a Schubert lied while hundreds of Jews were being shot and gassed -- while the band played on, as it were?

That having been said, what little I do know of holiness -- I prefer this word -- comes from some poetry and some music. Enough said.

Jay
(who's listening to Fidelio at full blast)
Her finely-touched spirit had still its fine issues, though they were not widely visible. Her full nature, like that river of which Cyrus broke the strength, spent itself in channels which had no great name on the earth. But the effect of her being on those around her was incalculably diffusive: for the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts; and that things are not so ill with you and me as they might have been, is half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life, and rest in unvisited tombs.

George Eliot, Middlemarch, final paragraph

Offline CalvinC

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2006, 10:20:38 PM »
Interesting, Jay, how often you make reference to "knowledge" in your sentences. What would happen if you removed that filter? ???

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Idle Curiosity part 2: Religious?
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2006, 11:13:19 PM »
Maybe there's a God Above, and all I ever learned from Love was
How to shoot at someone who outdrew you.

And it's not a cry you can hear at night
It's not somebody who's seen the light.

It's a cold and it's a broken Hallelujiah.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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