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Author Topic: Shall we do something to help re-allocate the funding for following research?  (Read 7538 times)

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Offline hahaha

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Saw in Poz.com news today
***********
Calif. University Awarded $17M to Study Link Between HIV and Meth

The National Institute on Drug Abuse has awarded $17 million to University of California in San Diegoís (UCSD) School of Medicine to study the link between methamphetamine use and HIV/AIDS, City News Service reports.
***************
I think this is a waste (or mis-allocation) of money.  While someone campaign for a 350,000 phase I clinical trial for a therapeutic vaccine, Calf uni just award this HUGE money to some "link" that has much less contribution to the world!!

There are so many therapeutic med/vaccine that needs money for study and for trial, which, if any one of them be successful, HIVer (now or future) will be much benefit from it.   and USD 17M is just like a timely rain for the thurst.  Whereas the link between HIV and Meth, even we found the link, so what? People who take meth still take meth, unless they can come to a conclusion that "taking meth will cure AIDS"? 

I hope we may start a campaign for a re-direction or re-allocation to use that money.  The money shall award for HIV's future, not for HIV's past. 

Does anybody agree with me?  Shall we do something?
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Offline marius68

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hahaha,

I'm in!! Thanks for the excellent finding. It's a huge waste indeed. Just remember that Dr. Sudhir Paul needs 2.5 million for example!! I wish we could start a campain not only in this case but in many others, for example by raising awareness of possible therapies that are being ignored, e.g. Dr. Yamamoto's and Dr. Savarino's.

This is an absolute scandal. No doubts reform of research practices and regulation of the pharmaceutical industry is more important than anything else.




Offline mecch

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seems like a waste of money so why did intelligent professors agree to this.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Inchlingblue

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I agree it's a total waste.

It's obvious that there's a link between meth use and increased chances of getting HIV (duh!) and if they want to find out more specifically what the damage is to the body and the brain this should not be a top priority for the allocation of precious research dollars (plus this has already been studied).

At the very least it would be good to leave comments with one's opinions at the end of the article. I guess also to write a letter to the entity that awarded the money, the National Institute on Drug Abuse.

Offline leatherman

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do like I'm doing to today and email/call all these contacts to voice your opinion/opposition

the news coverage about this grant
http://www.10news.com/news/21899896/detail.html
10News Investigations Feedback
http://www.10news.com/news/178917/detail.html

the govt agency passing out the grant
National Institute on Drug Abuse
information@nida.nih.gov or call 301-443-1124

the college receiving the grant
University of California, San Diego's School of Medicine
http://som.ucsd.edu/

the doctor who applied for the grant
Dr. Igor Grant
http://www.ucsd.edu/directory/faculty_staff?entry=igor%20grant
http://grant.hivresearch.ucsd.edu/
9500 Gilman Drive # 0680
La Jolla, CA 92093-0680
(858)534-3652
igrant@ucsd.edu

Assistant
Braunschweig, Felicia
(858)534-3652
froston@ucsd.edu
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Miss Philicia

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Does anybody agree with me?  Shall we do something?

Uh, sweetheart, don't you live in Taiwan or something?  Your "we" doesn't actually mean "you" then does it?  And why, in the first place, should you care what the National Institute of Drug Abuse does with their funding?

Additionally, maybe you don't have this issue in Taiwan, but there is a huge problem with meth and new HIV infections in the US.  The news article, which you creatively failed to fully quote, clearly states that in San Diego where this money will go, a incredibly large one-third of newly diagnosed HIV+ individuals have a meth problem.

Perhaps instead of complaining about US drug policy you should get out in the HIV community Taipei and advocate for what you want.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline leatherman

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sample email:

According to recent reporting by  San Diego News Channel 10 (http://www.10news.com/news/21899896/detail.html), UCSD has been awarded a $17 million grant from the NIDA to study the link between meth and HIV. This is a gross waste of the preceious research dollars that America could and should be spending to develop better treatment for HIV, or even an actual cure. While I can understand that meth abuse may be a problem in the San Diego area (UCSD says more than a third of those newly infected with HIV have used meth), in the national, or even global, view of the HIV epidemic that is not the case. This is quite a lot of money being spent to study, not even to help alleviate or solve, an issue which could be better addressed by solving the meth problem itself in San Diego. Thousands of people in America have HIV, have never used or abused meth, and are desperately waiting on less toxic medications or an actual cure to be found which this money could be spent.

I kindly request that you reconsider this misuse, this waste of such a large amount of money that is needed by real research looking to help the most Americans possible in their daily struggle with HIV/AIDS. Along with contacting you about this situation, I will be contacting all of my local Congressmen and the Congressmen from California to ask that they look into this gross missappropriation of tax-payer dollars that will produce nothing to actually benefit any citizens, except those researching this topic.





PS i'm also going to request this topic be moved over to activism
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


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Offline John2038

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Cumulative Adult/Adolescent HIV Cases by Race/Ethnicity in the San Diego County Through 12/31/08:
3847

HIV Cases by IDU
Male: 146
Female: 90

Source


17 mio USD for 236 people  uh uh (but this study will benefit to any meth users)
Now I guess that in this study, the researchers are interested in determining how meth may be amplifying the effects of HIV (I might be wrong).

Source

If so, this mecanism might be interesting to know, to maybe help to design new drugs.

Note
No matter from where someone is coming from, he/she must have the right to express his/her point of view here about any american research. It's at least compliant with the rules of this forum.

Offline Inchlingblue

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 The news article, which you creatively failed to fully quote, clearly states that in San Diego where this money will go, a incredibly large one-third of newly diagnosed HIV+ individuals have a meth problem.

I noticed that bit in the article about one-third of recently-infected people in San Diego had used meth and can't see how this factoid is relevant. That statistic is probably the same or comparable to new cases in most big cities. It's not like this money is being used to help curb meth use in San Diego (or anywhere else for that matter).

I fail to see a connection with this research and the fact that it's being conducted in San Diego. They will purportedly be looking at the combined effects of HIV and meth on the CNS, this is something that not only has been studied in the past, but the results of which will be the same whether we're talking San Diego or Timbuktu.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Look, this funding IMO is important.  Considering how many people come into their HIV treatment with either pre-existing meth issues or current ones, doctors need to know how meth use effects cognitive issues combined with the cognitive issues one sees in non-meth using HIV patients, which as far as I can tell is what this is as it is establishing the Translational Methamphetamine AIDS Research Center, and Dr. Grant is already the director of the HIV Neurobehavioral Research Center. 

Frankly though I'm personally not a meth user, nor have I ever had a meth addiction in the past, I think not only could this be valuable to the HUGE amount of meth/HIV combination type patients, but also open doors to cognitive impairments that they are now seeing in long term survivor types.  I would also assume that the location of San Diego is useful because of the high number of meth users that can enroll in these studies. 

So no, I don't find this to be a wasteful use of money and I do not plan on joining in on the outrage.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline leatherman

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doctors need to know how meth use effects cognitive issues combined with the cognitive issues one sees in non-meth using HIV patients,
two questions:
1) how many HIV poz individuals are meth users? If that group is a large subset of the HIV poz population then I could understand the need for a study. You say that subset is "huge". However, if we're talking only a few percentage points, then I can't see that it matters $17 million dollars worth. Even if all of the US had numbers like SD where 1/3 were meth users, I don't think a study like this would be worth it - not for the other 2/3 anyway

2) why would knowing the combination of effects really matter? I'm sure that there's a study** out there already that shows that meth is detrimental to normal cognitive abilities ergo it's detrimental to people with HIV too. Viola! Now that I've answered this question (by using the value of other dollars already spent that produced a report telling about meth cognitive effects), they can spend this $17 mill to find the other part of your equation - how HIV effects cognitive issues. That would be more applicable to more HIV patients (and less backwards than your suggestion of finding out about HIV cognitive issues through looking at drug-users first) and would have saved us a lot of conflict in that thread back a while ago about HIV and cognitive/ageing effects.

What will be the end result of this study anyway? Are they going to figure out a way for people to use meth plus have HIV and not have cognitive issues?  ::) In a world of limited resources, it just seems wasteful to spend such money to study a problem benefiting so few. But wait, what benefits? This study would at best only prove HIV and meth screw up cognitive thinking. I would be happier seeing the $17 mill spent to get people off meth and then it wouldn't matter what the effects of the combination of issues was. It just seems more prudent to find out how HIV effects normal people first than finding out how it effects the few also affected by their drug abuse issues.

-------------------------------
**Since I was arguing that the subset of affected individuals was too small to prioritize that highly, I needed to find out what % of HIV poz are meth users to answer my first question. I did find an estimate that 50% of meth users are HIV+. But that still doesn't tell me how large the subset of HIVpoz people are that are also meth users.

Before I could look any further, I was surprised to find that the very questions in this proposed SD study have already been done. :o (the 2nd link when I googled "hiv positive and meth users") I pulled a quote out but check out this whole article. It's chock full of the results of studies already done. So this would just be $17 million WASTED in San Diego to study something that has already been studied, after all.

"The Impact of Crystal Methamphetamine Use on HIV-Positive Individuals"
(http://www.thebody.com/content/treat/art52243.html)
Quote
In a comparison of the interactive effects of methamphetamine use and HIV infection, Rippeth et al. (2004) examined the interactive effects of methamphetamine use and HIV infection on cognitive functioning.28 The data demonstrated that rates of impairment to global neuropsychological functions were highest among HIV-positive methamphetamine users (58%), followed by HIV-negative methamphetamine users (40%), HIV-positive non-methamphetamine users (38%), and were lowest among HIV-negative, non-methamphetamine users (18%), indicating the synergy between HIV infection and abuse of the drug.

Rippeth, J. D. et al. "Methamphetamine dependence increases risk of neuropsychological impairment in HIV infected persons." Journal of the International Neuropsychological Society, 10, 1-14. (2004).

Langford, D. et al. "Patterns of selective neuronal damage in methamphetamine-user AIDS patients." Journal of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndromes, 34(5), 467-474. 2003).
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Miss Philicia

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two questions:
1) how many HIV poz individuals are meth users? If that group is a large subset of the HIV poz population then I could understand the need for a study. You say that subset is "huge". However, if we're talking only a few percentage points, then I can't see that it matters $17 million dollars worth. Even if all of the US had numbers like SD where 1/3 were meth users, I don't think a study like this would be worth it - not for the other 2/3 anyway

Wow, by that logic I guess we should defund programs that look into the black female demographic/infections.  Sorry honey, but by any measure 33% is huge as a block of patients.  Maybe you should try and not allow your own personal situation to color your thinking.  I'm rather surprised and aghast at this comment.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Inchlingblue

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There is already a good body of knowledge about the effects  of HIV and meth on the CNS. Even if one could argue that there's more to learn, I find it difficult to justify dollars allocated to this when there are 300 (and counting) people on ADAP waiting lists. These are people getting sicker and in some cases even dying (in 2009!) because they have no access to HIV meds. That's what I'm outraged by.

If everything else were hunky-dory in terms of HIV treatment and care and there was money lying around to look further into the effects of meth and HIV on the CNS, then by all means, knock yourself out. But we're far from there yet.

I know it's not as easy as taking this $17 million and allocating it to ADAPs instead, I wish it were.

Miss P: Is that Rick Donovan?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 03:03:58 PM by Inchlingblue »

Offline leatherman

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but by any measure 33% is huge as a block of patients....I'm rather surprised and aghast at this comment.
in allocating LIMITED research dollars (no resources in this world are unlimited, exception imagination)
33% of the HIV population out of the total population IS a very small demographic to be studied.
It's just the math without any coloring by my situation. ;)

(by the way, in your example, being black and female are genetic traits and not issues that could be cured. If all the meth addictions were cured, this study's results would be worthless in the long run. If all HIV was cured, this study's results would again be worthless.)

so we'll just have to agree to disagree. ;) I believe that curing all HIV infections (or curing meth addiction) is more important, than spending even more money to find out if meth-heads are more screwed up when they have HIV in conjuction to their addiction.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Miss Philicia

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Yes, that's Rick.

Of course the ADAP stuff is outrageous, but that's a red herring for this thread.  I'll remind my fellow readers that the OP of this thread is so fixated on therapeutic vaccines that he once advocated testing them on mainland Chinese peasants.  And reading his post seems to be of the mind of "meth users -- fuck them!  they're filthy drug addicts so who gives a shit what happens to them?"  Not to mention it's eternally annoying that non-US taxpayers complain about how the US uses its taxes.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline tash08

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I agree with you to a degree hahaha, further researching meth use and hiv is still very important but so is hiv research for example Dr. Paul Sudhir's abzyme vaccine was considered too novel to be funded. I mean all we can do is fight for more funding for causes that we care about, and not look at someone else. In the past, Paul had won NIH grants easily, but by last summer he was running up against resistance from peer reviewers who found his ideas for an AIDS vaccine "too novel," which is to say too out-there. In other words be an activist, write your lawmakers, government, send out letters, protest, stay involved!

« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 09:41:56 PM by tash08 »
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Offline hahaha

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Uh, sweetheart, don't you live in Taiwan or something?  Your "we" doesn't actually mean "you" then does it?  And why, in the first place, should you care what the National Institute of Drug Abuse does with their funding?

Additionally, maybe you don't have this issue in Taiwan, but there is a huge problem with meth and new HIV infections in the US.  The news article, which you creatively failed to fully quote, clearly states that in San Diego where this money will go, a incredibly large one-third of newly diagnosed HIV+ individuals have a meth problem.

Perhaps instead of complaining about US drug policy you should get out in the HIV community Taipei and advocate for what you want.
Darling Missy,
1. Yes, I am from Taiwan, but I thought Poz.com is not only for American, and, if there is any chance that such things happen in Taiwan, I will use all my effort to fight for it, too.
2. As a HIVer, no matter the research fund for HIV happen anywhere, I will still hope it can be fund for therapeutic.  Why do I care?  If US has the "Cure", it can pass to all over the world, Why shall I NOT care?
3.Meth + HIV is an issue, I know, I am not blind and I AM aware of it.  But if HIV get cure, would it be also possilbe that Meth + HIV turn into only Meth + issue?  That also reduce the risk, isn't it?
4.And darling, for your last comment, stop barking, do something constructive. 
Aug 9, 2006 Get infected in Japan #$%^*
Oct 2006 CD4 239
Nov 2006 CD4 299 VL 60,000
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Jan 07, CD4 400

Offline hahaha

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Yes, that's Rick.

Of course the ADAP stuff is outrageous, but that's a red herring for this thread.  I'll remind my fellow readers that the OP of this thread is so fixated on therapeutic vaccines that he once advocated testing them on mainland Chinese peasants.  And reading his post seems to be of the mind of "meth users -- fuck them!  they're filthy drug addicts so who gives a shit what happens to them?"  Not to mention it's eternally annoying that non-US taxpayers complain about how the US uses its taxes.
Darling Missy, it is me again.
1.I do raise the issue of "clinical trial, why not chinese peasant?" issue, but do remember, that I raise it under the pre-condition they don't even have a chance to get medical.  I raise the point (may not correct) to see if 1. poor people have chance to get high quality med care (with an exchage of risk, of course) 2. expedite the clinical trial. From my point of view, it may be arguable, but practicable and welcome for debate.
2.I don't say "meth user,-- fuck them", I say, what is the research can lead us to?  What will be the conclusion made?  Will the conclusion make HIV research go better?  Money, just like all the resource, it is very limited, and, if you are an HIVer (or if you are also Meth taker), Kindly let me know your priority for spending such money. 
3. I am not fighting with you for your ugly words.  It is not my style darling, and I suggest debate on the subject, but not person.  It doesn't matter you like me or not (I don't like you anyway).  It does matter if you can not create something reasonable and constructive. 
Aug 9, 2006 Get infected in Japan #$%^*
Oct 2006 CD4 239
Nov 2006 CD4 299 VL 60,000
Dec 1, Sustiva, Ziagan and 3TC
Jan 07, CD4 400

Offline GNYC09

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Quote
4.And darling, for your last comment, stop barking, do something constructive.  

3. I am not fighting with you for your ugly words.  It is not my style darling, and I suggest debate on the subject, but not person.  It doesn't matter you like me or not (I don't like you anyway).  It does matter if you can not create something reasonable and constructive.  

You're funny - you're doing exactly what you're complaining about.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 12:34:21 AM by GNYC09 »

Offline John2038

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Maybe realted to the French proverb:
The dogs bark, the caravan goes by.

 ??? ???

Offline Miss Philicia

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You're funny - you're doing exactly what you're complaining about.

Hypocrisy is a dime a dozen 'round these parts.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Assurbanipal

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Ummmm...

This is not money allocated for HIV research that has been diverted.

Instead it is a use of funds that Congress allocated for the National Institute for Drug Abuse.

If anything it represents an expansion of money into HIV-related research.


If you are going to write NIDA to suggest they should spend their Congressional allocation studying things that are someone else's issue you will (and should) have zero luck.

If you are writing Congress to suggest an expansion of research dollars for HIV funding to test additional strategies that currently do not pass peer review study panels but have good press releases ....well, at least you could be clear about it.



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Offline Miss Philicia

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This is not money allocated for HIV research that has been diverted.

Instead it is a use of funds that Congress allocated for the National Institute for Drug Abuse.

If anything it represents an expansion of money into HIV-related research.


If you are going to write NIDA to suggest they should spend their Congressional allocation studying things that are someone else's issue you will (and should) have zero luck.

If you are writing Congress to suggest an expansion of research dollars for HIV funding to test additional strategies that currently do not pass peer review study panels but have good press releases ....well, at least you could be clear about it.





Yeah, that was running through my mind too yesterday and why I didn't understand the reactions here.  Complaining that this should go for ADAP is like saying that funds for Blackwater fees should go for ADAP.  It might be desirable on some level but it's not how it works.

But then this entire thread was replete with odd reasoning.

"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Ann

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Cumulative Adult/Adolescent HIV Cases by Race/Ethnicity in the San Diego County Through 12/31/08:
3847

HIV Cases by IDU
Male: 146
Female: 90

Source


17 mio USD for 236 people  uh uh (but this study will benefit to any meth users)
Now I guess that in this study, the researchers are interested in determining how meth may be amplifying the effects of HIV (I might be wrong).

Source

If so, this mecanism might be interesting to know, to maybe help to design new drugs.

Note
No matter from where someone is coming from, he/she must have the right to express his/her point of view here about any american research. It's at least compliant with the rules of this forum.


What makes you so sure that all the new meth/hiv cases in SD are all due to injecting the drug? That's just silly. Meth is also smoked, snorted and sometimes used like a suppository. The main reason meth and hiv are linked is because it's well known that meth use often leads people to engage in sexual risk-taking, such as unprotected anal intercourse. Injection, perhaps, but not the type you're thinking of.

And yes, Mr Urban is absolutely correct; this is not money being taken from other areas of hiv research, it's drug-abuse research money and as he also says, this actually represents an increase in hiv research.

And one thing people seem to have not noticed is this sentence taken from the POZ article:

Researchers said chronic meth use might produce an inflammatory response in the brain, making users more susceptible to HIV.

My take on this is that they may learn more about hiv transmission, which may in turn lead to improved prevention methods. It's all good.

Ann
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HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Inchlingblue

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Even if they were to corroborate all the many things that are already known about HIV and meth in the brain and the CNS it would not make even one person on meth stop using it.

I have seen people in the throes of a meth addiction (as I'm sure others on here have as well). The dangers of meth are legion and, as I've stated before, already researched very thoroughly.

If you present these facts to someone with a meth addiction they'd likely get a big laugh out of it and proceed to light up the pipe. Finding out even more about how meth can damage your body and how it can damage your body moreso if you have HIV (duh!), will not stop anyone addicted to meth from doing meth.

Maybe NIDA could have used these monies to fund stays in reputable treatment centers for those suffering from a meth addiction and for giving those who have meth and HIV access to the proper medications. Finding out even more than what's already known is not the wisest way to use this money at this point in time when funds are so limited.

LINKS:

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/162/8/1461

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/pmc/articles/PMC2408407/

http://ajp.amjpathol.org/cgi/content/abstract/ajpath.2008.070971v1

http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/downloads/pdf/public/dohmhnews3-03.pdf

http://www.thebody.com/content/whatis/art1167.html

Etc., etc., etc . . .

Offline Miss Philicia

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Inchling sweetiedarling, you're making a huge assumption that the goal with this research is to get people to stop doing meth.  I'm not reading it that way.  I did some googling around yesterday because the OP left out the poz.com link and I recall seeing some wording that lead me to believe that your assumption is off base.  However, I'm too lazy right now to go digging in my browser history file.
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Offline Inchlingblue

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Inchling sweetiedarling, you're making a huge assumption that the goal with this research is to get people to stop doing meth.  I'm not reading it that way.  I did some googling around yesterday because the OP left out the poz.com link and I recall seeing some wording that lead me to believe that your assumption is off base.  However, I'm too lazy right now to go digging in my browser history file.

Of course the goal of this research is not to get people to stop using meth, what I'm saying is it should be, then maybe there'd be more of a point to it. What's the point of finding out more information about the dangers of meth and HIV on the CNS? It will not help those suffering from a meth addiction.

What is the goal of this research? It seems pointless to me when (I'll repeat) much is already known about this subject and knowing more will not do anyone any immediate good and it's questionable whether there'll be any long-term benefits either.

Offline John2038

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And one thing people seem to have not noticed is this sentence taken from the POZ article:

Researchers said chronic meth use might produce an inflammatory response in the brain, making users more susceptible to HIV.

That was exactly my point  ;D

Offline Ann

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What is the goal of this research?


Well, like I said above, it looks to me like one of the goals will be to find out if meth actually plays a mechanical/biological role in the body - as opposed to behaviourally - in hiv transmission. Like I said, we may learn more about transmission (on a cellular level) and that may in turn lead to improved methods of prevention. I'm thinking something along the lines of like what they're trying to do with microbicides.


Researchers said chronic meth use might produce an inflammatory response in the brain, making users more susceptible to HIV.

Other things besides meth could be causing an inflammatory response in people and if this response does indeed make one more susceptible to infection, wouldn't that be a good thing to know?

Let's not forget that this money isn't meant to fund one study - it's meant to create a research center, where more than one study can be done.

The university said the money would help establish the Translational Methamphetamine AIDS Research Center. For five years, UCSD researchers will receive more than $3 million annually to examine the combined effects of methamphetamine and HIV on the central nervous system.

This says to me that they're not going to look at just one aspect of the interplay between meth and hiv, but several. Of course I could be wrong, this is just what I'm getting from the article.

Ann
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Offline Inchlingblue

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Other things besides meth could be causing an inflammatory response in people and if this response does indeed make one more susceptible to infection, wouldn't that be a good thing to know?
 

Ann, it is already known that meth causes an inflammatory response in the brain! Do we need to spend more money to see whether or not this inflammation might increase the chances of getting HIV? Seriously.

With so much more needed in so many areas, I will continue to believe that $17 million for this research is unnecessary. We know enough about this topic to know what to do about it, i.e. research ways to get people to stop using meth or not to ever start using it.

Learning more about how much damage it does will not help anyone.

If anyone doubted that drug use can damage the brain, new studies using brain scans show methamphetamine abusers' brains have damage similar to dementia, as well as considerable brain inflammation.

LINKS:

http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?type=article&article_id=218392428

https://secure.hosting.vt.edu/www.vascular.sbes.vt.edu/Facilities/Animal%20Cells/HBMEC.pdf

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WFG-47GRVS0-Y&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1138391700&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=a47895fdb3a03f9356212fd41909e59e

Etc., etc., etc. . . .
« Last Edit: December 16, 2009, 01:14:22 PM by Inchlingblue »

Offline leatherman

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And yes, Mr Urban is absolutely correct; this is not money being taken from other areas of hiv research, it's drug-abuse research money and as he also says, this actually represents an increase in hiv research.
money is a limited resource . money spent on one research IS money that isn't spent on some other research.

look at it this way, if I spent less on HIV meds each month I could purchase more meth. If America spent less on wars, they could finance more road construction. it's all about bugeting limited resources. Spending $17 million to study how meth can make it easier for HIV to infect a body is $17 million not spent on some other project.

I believe that that "some other project" could be something that might be more productive to solving an HIV related issue for a larger number of HIV positive people. This study doesn't look to solve any issue. It doesn't help those meth users quit their habit, it's not going to solve an HIV related issue, and it is a duplication of studies already done.

My take on this is that they may learn more about hiv transmission, which may in turn lead to improved prevention methods.
how about don't do meth, and you won't get infected. ;)
I understand that they are looking to see if meth alters the body in some way to allow HIV to infect easier. So what is the final goal of this study? It's obviously not to cure any meth addictions nor is it to cure HIV. Is to to figure out how to take meth and NOT make it easier to HIV to infect? I just don't understand why studying to the effects of HIV on drug-users is worthy of so much money when the vast amount of infected people in the world are not meth-users.

you wrote this while I was typing up this post
Other things besides meth could be causing an inflammatory response in people and if this response does indeed make one more susceptible to infection, wouldn't that be a good thing to know?
LOL then let's get them to study those "other things besides meth" since it's those other things that are affecting much more of the HIV poz population.

I say cure all the meth addicts and none of this will matter.  ;D
People will still be getting infected; HIV poz people will still be living with the virus; and $17 million dollars will have been spent
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Offline leatherman

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Wow, by that logic I guess we should defund programs that look into the black female demographic/infections. 
I was thinking about this while I was baking up a batch of Chinese Almond cookies (I did a batch of cut out cookies that I iced last night. And, no Anne, we can't take this over to be a recipe thread LOL).

I would never complain about studies of something like mother-to-child transmission, though it would shed no light on HIV and my personal situation. Of course studies about M-to-C transmission had to take place because MORE hetero people in the world are infected and therefore that's a more reasonable issue to study. There just don't seem to enough meth-user/HIV-infected people in the world to justice another study (referred to in this thread) of such limited use.

Otherwise might I suggest a study on the interaction between HIV and Coke - as in Coca-Cola. :D Even thought I'm probably the only one around that drinks 2-liters a day, I'm sure there must be some way in which the Cola rush made me more susceptible (probably through some sort of system inflammation) to acquiring HIV.  :D ;D
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Offline bocker3

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I'm kind of shocked at this thread.

First -- there will ALWAYS be something that is deemed more worthy to spend research dollars on by someone.  I venture to guess that if you polled outside of POZ.COM, you'd get people who think more than enough (maybe even too much) money is being spent on HIV/AIDS when more people (in the US at any rate) are dying of cancer and heart disease.  Think about it -- you have folks right in this thread saying that money should be diverted from Drug Abuse research into HIV research (even though this has elements of both).

Second -- since when did the fact that something has already been researched mean we shouldn't do more?  Do you think that we already know all there is to know about HIV and Meth??  Seems unlikely as it is generally agreed that we don't know what we don't know.

What I'm seeing here is a bunch of folks who think that everything should revolve around their "special interests" and the rest be damned.

Mike
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Offline skeebo1969

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  Waste of money period.  It does not take a professor or a study to figure out people on drugs are  likely not to use protection.  Study of inflamation?!?!  We might as well study the effects of turning door knobs and HIV....  most of us turned a door knob to a bedroom before being infected.
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Offline Inchlingblue

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I'm kind of shocked at this thread.

What I'm seeing here is a bunch of folks who think that everything should revolve around their "special interests" and the rest be damned.

To say that this money would be better spent getting people off of ADAP waiting lists and/or for the treatment of those addicted to meth, oooh, how shocking@! Special interests, indeed.

Give me a Friggin break.

Offline skeebo1969

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To say that this money would be better spent getting people off of ADAP waiting lists and/or for the treatment of those addicted to meth, oooh, how shocking@! Special interests, indeed.

Give me a Friggin break.

LMAO!!

Atleast he didn't give his usual. "things like this are dangerous" routine... 
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Offline leatherman

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What I'm seeing here is a bunch of folks who think that everything should revolve around their "special interests" and the rest be damned.
what I'm seeing here is a bunch of folk arguing that money should be used to study those of special interest (meth-using pozzies) and the entire rest of the hiv population (millions of non-drug users) be damned

I could take some offense at your "special interests" comment, if you are including me in your "bunch of folks" group. What "special interests" are you referring to? I'm just an average guy with HIV who takes his meds and doesn't ignore good medical advice by contributing to the further decline of his health by taking meth. I have no "special interests" per se besides being infected via M2M sex (which is not the majority transmission mode). I'm just one of millions of average HIV poz people following doctors recommendations and trying to stay alive (I even quit smoking so my body and meds wouldn't have to work even harder to keep me alive) until a cure is found - which might never be found if time and resources are wasted studying a small group of self-destructive people infected with HIV who, against all doctor recommendations, are further ruining their health and excaberating their problems by taking meth.
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Offline bocker3

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what I'm seeing here is a bunch of folk arguing that money should be used to study those of special interest (meth-using pozzies) and the entire rest of the hiv population (millions of non-drug users) be damned

I could take some offense at your "special interests" comment, if you are including me in your "bunch of folks" group. What "special interests" are you referring to? I'm just an average guy with HIV who takes his meds and doesn't ignore good medical advice by contributing to the further decline of his health by taking meth. I have no "special interests" per se besides being infected via M2M sex (which is not the majority transmission mode). I'm just one of millions of average HIV poz people following doctors recommendations and trying to stay alive (I even quit smoking so my body and meds wouldn't have to work even harder to keep me alive) until a cure is found - which might never be found if time and resources are wasted studying a small group of self-destructive people infected with HIV who, against all doctor recommendations, are further ruining their health and excaberating their problems by taking meth.

Be offended, I don't care.

What I am referring to is that you are upset that money from an organization that deals with drug abuse is researching (shock!!!) drug abuse.  The fact that it includes HIV is making folks think that the money should only be used for HIV research. 
The sponsoring organization isn't in the HIV business -- it is in the Drug Abuse business.  This is why I said my "special interest" comment -- because of people wanting money to go from the organization's purpose to a purpose near and dear to them.  If that offends you, that's your problem, not mine.

Now, if it was amFAR, you would have a stronger case for being upset, but this is an organization about Drug Abuse.

Mike
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Offline bocker3

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LMAO!!

Atleast he didn't give his usual. "things like this are dangerous" routine... 

I wasn't aware that I had a "routine" -- thanks for being such a fan.
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