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Author Topic: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?  (Read 4518 times)

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Offline TheRoof

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Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« on: November 15, 2009, 07:51:43 PM »
A few weeks ago I kissed another guy, and I would disclose (Or not do anything at all like bj or anal) if it came to that.

So a few weeks ago I kissed a guy, but did not disclose my status.

My question is: If you're just going to make out with the guy and nothing else. Is it important to always disclose? Obviously if things got more serious then I would of course bring it up.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2009, 09:56:24 PM by TheRoof »

Offline LBpozguy

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2009, 09:05:01 PM »
With as many people that have read this thread, I am surprised that no one has responded. Anyway, As the "educated" pozzies that we are, we know that by kissing, we are not going to spread the virus. But deep down, for myself, I, so far, have disclosed to everyone that I have done anything with including kissing.  And yes prior to doing it.  :)   I for one don't want anyone coming back to me and telling me I didn't disclose. So I have always been upfront when it comes to having contact with someone. 
Feb 08 neg
Sept 08 - First poz test
Sept 08 CD4 558 (% unk) VL 11000
Dec 08 CD4 480 (29%) VL less than 700
Mar 09 CD4 370  VL 25000
June 09 CD4 425 VL 68000
Aug 09 Started Atripla
Sept 09 CD4 639 VL 100
Nov 09  CD4 716 (35%) VL Undet!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jan 10 CD4 685 VL UND

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2009, 09:08:44 PM »
Wow.  Are you folks going to start disclosing when you shake hands too?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline TheRoof

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2009, 09:14:20 PM »
With as many people that have read this thread, I am surprised that no one has responded. Anyway, As the "educated" pozzies that we are, we know that by kissing, we are not going to spread the virus. But deep down, for myself, I, so far, have disclosed to everyone that I have done anything with including kissing.  And yes prior to doing it.  :)   I for one don't want anyone coming back to me and telling me I didn't disclose. So I have always been upfront when it comes to having contact with someone. 

That's actually my opinion about it. I don't want anyone coming back to me (if they somehow found out) saying "Why Didn't I disclose before I kissed them".''

Offline fearless

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2009, 09:18:54 PM »
Your kidding me aren't you. It's absolutley ridicolous, and totally unecessary for such disclosoure.
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline fearless

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2009, 09:20:02 PM »
Oh, and my response if somebody came back saying "why didn't you disclose before kissing" - BECAUSE IT IS NONE OF YOUR F'ING BUSINESS
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline Silence_X

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2009, 09:21:51 PM »
I had an experience where I made out with a man and then i disclosed my status because we were going to have sex and he didn't want to be after my disclosure.  He asked me at promply after that why hadn't i said something before i kissed him.  It never really occured to me to disclose before a kiss but i suppose he may have felt exposed even then. 
I personally won't be disclosing before a kiss but it's a personal choice. 

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2009, 09:24:10 PM »
Your kidding me aren't you. It's absolutley ridicolous, and totally unecessary for such disclosoure.
Welcome to AIDSmeds.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2009, 09:31:57 PM »
Oh, and my response if somebody came back saying "why didn't you disclose before kissing" - BECAUSE IT IS NONE OF YOUR F'ING BUSINESS

Mine would be "Why didn't you disclose that garlic you ate earlier? That's what is truly lethal."


Offline TheRoof

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2009, 09:46:38 PM »
I had an experience where I made out with a man and then i disclosed my status because we were going to have sex and he didn't want to be after my disclosure.  He asked me at promply after that why hadn't i said something before i kissed him.  It never really occured to me to disclose before a kiss but i suppose he may have felt exposed even then. 
I personally won't be disclosing before a kiss but it's a personal choice. 

See this is basically what I think about. As LBpozguy said. I mean "usually" you don't need to disclose before kissing right? Or should it be an obligation to do it like having sex?

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2009, 09:58:35 PM »
I don't think there is any official book of etiquette. I would say if you are going to feel guilty or bad that you didn't disclose before kissing then you should disclose for your own peace of mind. I personally wouldn't disclose because there is no chance of infection and if they freak out that is their problem. As Miss P. pointed out, are you going to disclose when you shake hands or hug? This isn't the early 80s and people should know better.

Offline LBpozguy

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2009, 10:31:22 PM »
I don't think there is any official book of etiquette. I would say if you are going to feel guilty or bad that you didn't disclose before kissing then you should disclose for your own peace of mind. I personally wouldn't disclose because there is no chance of infection and if they freak out that is their problem. As Miss P. pointed out, are you going to disclose when you shake hands or hug? This isn't the early 80s and people should know better.

Hey GSO, Miss Philicia and Fearless......... Certainly we are not going to disclose just to hug or shake a hand. That would be just silly. However, some people get freaked out when ANY bodily fluid is exchanged. YES, I know, passing HIV through a kiss isn't going to happen. But there are still people out there that are not as educated about HIV as most of the people on here. And quite frankly I would rather know how they are going to react upfront and sooner rather than down the road after investing any amount of time with them  and before we are getting more intimate. Basically it comes down to personal preference and level of comfort. To each his own!
Feb 08 neg
Sept 08 - First poz test
Sept 08 CD4 558 (% unk) VL 11000
Dec 08 CD4 480 (29%) VL less than 700
Mar 09 CD4 370  VL 25000
June 09 CD4 425 VL 68000
Aug 09 Started Atripla
Sept 09 CD4 639 VL 100
Nov 09  CD4 716 (35%) VL Undet!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jan 10 CD4 685 VL UND

Offline mecch

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2009, 12:38:47 AM »
Should I disclose if I give the guy the up and down and lock in on his butt or crotch?  With my hungry gaze, that is.  HIV+ death rays perhaps.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2009, 12:49:24 AM by mecch »
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline justaguy

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2009, 12:44:02 AM »
My rule of thumb so far has been that if I can be arrested for it, I will disclose.  Has any poz person been arrested for kissing yet?  I've kissed a few guys since my diagnosis and didn't disclose and didn't feel guilty either.
Estimated infection: 3/2008
Tested HIV positive: 3/31/2009
CD4 136/unknown %/VL 150,000: 4/6/2009
Started Atripla 4/17/2009
CD4 255/19%/VL 409 5/27/2009
CD4 247/??/VL 161 6/27/2009
CD4 257/21%/VL 60 7/22/2009
CD4 352/22%/VL Undetectable 10/21/2009
CD4 490/27%/VL Undetectable 2/15/2010
CD4 397/?/VL Undetectable 7/2/2010

Offline mecch

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2009, 12:48:41 AM »
Well HIV+ spitting is a crime in some states in the USA, so why not kissing as well...
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2009, 12:55:27 AM »
Because spitting on someone is usually (not always) an aggressive act and consensual kissing isn't.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2009, 07:39:36 AM »
Well HIV+ spitting is a crime in some states in the USA, so why not kissing as well...

Spitting on someone whether positive or not will get you thrown in jail in most states, however when it is done by someone who is postive they change it from simple assault to attempted murder or something along those lines. ::)
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2009, 07:45:52 AM »
Should I disclose if I give the guy the up and down and lock in on his butt or crotch?  With my hungry gaze, that is.  HIV+ death rays perhaps.

Only if he's under age...

In a hypothetical situation let's say...  If I was kissing someone I definitely need to disclose CUZ WE HEADED TO THE BEDROOM IN ANY SECOND....  my kisses are so good the panties just melt away for some reason.  My wife hates this, she had to go restock the panty drawer this past weekend.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline girlychic

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2009, 08:12:25 AM »
it depends. if you're just making out, and have no intention of taking it any further, EVER, then no need to disclose, imo. no one's business.
BUT you also said, "if we planned on taking it further, then obviously, I'd disclose," which makes me wonder, why prolong the inevitable? if there's a chance you could end up as something more w/this person, why are you waiting to disclose? is it because you are afraid they will reject you at first, but you're hoping that, with time, if they get to know you, they'll overlook it? b/c that could be viewed as somewhat manipulative. you don't want this person to feel tricked.
this is coming from an HIV-negative chic, who'd probably wanna know beforehand. once you disclosed, I wouldn't wanna have sex with you. (I realize you're gay so you wouldn't want me anyway, lol, but if I were with a straight man I wouldn't want to have sex with him if he told me that). I wouldn't hate you for it, though, we could still be friends and all that, and if I liked you, I'd wanna be there for ya, regardless. but you might wanna ask yourself why you're not upfront in the 1st place. b/c if the relationship amounts to anything more, you're only pro-longing the inevitable.

Offline Ann

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2009, 09:19:45 AM »
it depends. if you're just making out, and have no intention of taking it any further, EVER, then no need to disclose, imo. no one's business.
BUT you also said, "if we planned on taking it further, then obviously, I'd disclose," which makes me wonder, why prolong the inevitable? if there's a chance you could end up as something more w/this person, why are you waiting to disclose? is it because you are afraid they will reject you at first, but you're hoping that, with time, if they get to know you, they'll overlook it? b/c that could be viewed as somewhat manipulative. you don't want this person to feel tricked.
this is coming from an HIV-negative chic, who'd probably wanna know beforehand. once you disclosed, I wouldn't wanna have sex with you. (I realize you're gay so you wouldn't want me anyway, lol, but if I were with a straight man I wouldn't want to have sex with him if he told me that). I wouldn't hate you for it, though, we could still be friends and all that, and if I liked you, I'd wanna be there for ya, regardless. but you might wanna ask yourself why you're not upfront in the 1st place. b/c if the relationship amounts to anything more, you're only pro-longing the inevitable.

Girly, as an "hiv negative chick", you should not be posting in any forum here with the exceptions of the "Off Topic" and "Am I Infected" forums - or the "Someone I Care About Has Hiv" forum if you have a friend or loved one who is hiv positive.

If you continue to post in forums where you are not permitted to post, you run the risk of being given a Time Out or possibly even banned from the forums completely.

Read the Welcome Threads in Living or Am I Infected to understand our posting guidelines.

Please consider yourself warned!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline TheRoof

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2009, 01:46:43 PM »
it depends. if you're just making out, and have no intention of taking it any further, EVER, then no need to disclose, imo. no one's business.
BUT you also said, "if we planned on taking it further, then obviously, I'd disclose," which makes me wonder, why prolong the inevitable? if there's a chance you could end up as something more w/this person, why are you waiting to disclose? is it because you are afraid they will reject you at first, but you're hoping that, with time, if they get to know you, they'll overlook it? b/c that could be viewed as somewhat manipulative. you don't want this person to feel tricked.
this is coming from an HIV-negative chic, who'd probably wanna know beforehand. once you disclosed, I wouldn't wanna have sex with you. (I realize you're gay so you wouldn't want me anyway, lol, but if I were with a straight man I wouldn't want to have sex with him if he told me that). I wouldn't hate you for it, though, we could still be friends and all that, and if I liked you, I'd wanna be there for ya, regardless. but you might wanna ask yourself why you're not upfront in the 1st place. b/c if the relationship amounts to anything more, you're only pro-longing the inevitable.

Why is it manipulative. You have no factual basis of what you're saying. I already have a therapist, thank you.  ::) Who has a PhD in Psychology.  If you start seeing someone and suddenly on the first date spill out all your deepest darkest secrets. (From just a kiss) Is ANY person straight or not going to accept you? When you meet people for the first time they are not interested in your problems at first. Because they have their own problems to worry about it.

It's not manipulative. Manipulative is when you try to control the other person or their feelings. Look it up.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2009, 01:49:55 PM by TheRoof »

Offline Ann

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2009, 02:06:45 PM »
Roof,

I wouldn't worry about what girly has to say on the subject. She hasn't taken one step in our shoes, nevermind walked a mile. That's why we keep neggies out of here - they haven't a clue in most cases.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline girlychic

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2009, 02:08:32 PM »
Why is it manipulative. You have no factual basis of what you're saying. I already have a therapist, thank you.  ::) Who has a PhD in Psychology.  If you start seeing someone and suddenly on the first date spill out all your deepest darkest secrets. (From just a kiss) Is ANY person straight or not going to accept you? When you meet people for the first time they are not interested in your problems at first. Because they have their own problems to worry about it.

It's not manipulative. Manipulative is when you try to control the other person or their feelings. Look it up.

well, I'm told by Ann that I can't post here b/c apparently this section is reserved only for those w/AIDS/HIV, so I can't reply. But I will have you know I am against any kind of laws forcing ppl to disclose b/c I believe everyone should be responsible for their own actions and if they are that worried, don't engage in risky sex. I just think it may be better for you in the long run, b/c regardless if you view it as manipulative or not, someone who doesn't have it may react that way. you never know. I do think it's good that you feel a need to disclose, though, because many ppl don't.

have a nice day.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2009, 02:20:16 PM »
bye
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Ann

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2009, 02:36:59 PM »
girly,

Post one more time in a forum meant only for hiv positive people and you will be banned.

This is your last warning on the subject.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2009, 03:39:16 PM »
it depends. if you're just making out, and have no intention of taking it any further, EVER, then no need to disclose, imo. no one's business.
BUT you also said, "if we planned on taking it further, then obviously, I'd disclose," which makes me wonder, why prolong the inevitable? if there's a chance you could end up as something more w/this person, why are you waiting to disclose? is it because you are afraid they will reject you at first, but you're hoping that, with time, if they get to know you, they'll overlook it? b/c that could be viewed as somewhat manipulative. you don't want this person to feel tricked.
this is coming from an HIV-negative chic, who'd probably wanna know beforehand. once you disclosed, I wouldn't wanna have sex with you. (I realize you're gay so you wouldn't want me anyway, lol, but if I were with a straight man I wouldn't want to have sex with him if he told me that). I wouldn't hate you for it, though, we could still be friends and all that, and if I liked you, I'd wanna be there for ya, regardless. but you might wanna ask yourself why you're not upfront in the 1st place. b/c if the relationship amounts to anything more, you're only pro-longing the inevitable.

Oh come on man, you shouldn't jinx yourself.  Talk like this will have Mr. Karma in your pants in no time!!
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline anniebc

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2009, 04:01:51 PM »

this is coming from an HIV-negative chic, who'd probably wanna know beforehand. once you disclosed, I wouldn't wanna have sex with you. (I realize you're gay so you wouldn't want me anyway, lol, but if I were with a straight man I wouldn't want to have sex with him if he told me that). I wouldn't hate you for it, though, we could still be friends and all that, and if I liked you,

Wow how special does this make you feel, she doesn't want to touch you but she wants to be your friend..what a sweetie...and they wonder why Stigma is still alive and kicking...jeez.

Jan
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Offline onemoretime

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2009, 08:13:14 AM »
Hell NO,  Hiv is transmit between blood to blood or semon to blood contact if i remember correctly.   Kissing does not allow those kind of contacts.     I believe HIV is hard to catch,  I stayed neg for 15 years even with high risk activity.  Unfortunately my luck ran out, but point is it was not easy to get.   I started to believe that possibly I had that "gene" that makes you not get it.   WRONG
08/04 diag 490 cd4 vl 50,000
10/25/05 436 50,513 hvb 1.1 billion
12/13/05 truvada sustiva
02/16/06 742 und, hpb 63,000
04/27/06 740 und hpb 60,000
01/05/07 458 und hvb und
03/08   470 undetectable still on atripla. Non smoking (chantex)
08/08 cd4 550 undetectable hiv, Hep B UND. Atripla
06/09  cd4 444, vl undetectable testo 130
09/09/09 CD4 687 46% UND  Testo 213 started androgel
10/12/09 cd4 682 46% und testo 597
01/12/10 cd4 842 48% und testo 434
041010 cd4 693  53% testo 492
100410 cd4 568 48% testo 523
012711 cd4 523 hcv 56 testo 596
083011 cd4 280 Hcv/HIV und
042912 cd4 158 hcv /hiv und, was on hep c for 11 months. do have ssdi filed and getting LTD
061912 cd4 151, bactrum, hep c and hiv und
071712 cd4 287 52% HIV HCV und
112012 cd4 520

Offline TheRoof

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2009, 10:11:47 PM »
Hell NO,  Hiv is transmit between blood to blood or semon to blood contact if i remember correctly.   Kissing does not allow those kind of contacts.     I believe HIV is hard to catch,  I stayed neg for 15 years even with high risk activity.  Unfortunately my luck ran out, but point is it was not easy to get.   I started to believe that possibly I had that "gene" that makes you not get it.   WRONG

Yeah. I heard that HIV is present in the saliva too. So that's why I was asking.

Offline MarcoPoz

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Re: Should One Disclose Before Kissing?
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2009, 09:40:48 AM »
It all really depends on your State's Disclosure laws and how you feel about breaking them.  In Michigan a kiss without an HIV disclosure (if you know you are HIV positive) would get you charged with a felony.  To paraphrase our law:  Any intrusion however slight by a body part or an object into the oral, anal and vaginal openings of another individual---is the definition of 'sex'.  Ergo, HIV status disclosure must occur prior to anything that meets this definition.

So yeah--in Michigan, if you don't want to do felony time, you have to disclose your HIV status (if known to be positive) before you kiss someone.

Welcome to OUR little version of hell.

 


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