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Author Topic: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?  (Read 16764 times)

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Offline Forevergreen

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  • Posts: 14
do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« on: November 12, 2009, 05:12:03 PM »
i've started to get involved with this guy (also poz) and we're getting to the point of sex. i'm a bottom, he's more top. in the past, i've decided not to let poz guys top me unprotected b/c both of my doctors discouraged me from it. they both told me that there is evidence of people picking up other strains of HIV and it causing problems with their treatment. my numbers are good and i dont want to jeopordize my health, but i dont like using condoms and i cant really see myself in an intimate relationship having safe sex all the time.

what would you do? do any of you have any experience with this? have you had any discussions with your doctor about it?

Offline ad2san

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2009, 06:11:44 PM »
Hi,

Ii never talk with my doc about this. I kind of think it is not his business. I am poz, my partner is neg (MSM).
I practice safe sex with my partner (since 6 years almost). We are not safe 2 or 3 times a year ... due to excitement and spontaneity. I think this is hard to manage since it ends up with some guilt feeling. We both know the risks ... so we manage it.

Cheers
Feb   2009 CD4 358 VL 2000 16%
May  2009 CD4 305 VL 3069  14% <---- Started TVD+ATZ/r
Jul  2009 CD4 512 VL <50   18%
Jul 2010 CD4 418 VL <50 24%                     
Switched to Kivexa (Epzicom) + Norvir + Reyataz (due to sleep problem)
Aug 2010 CD4 606 VL <50 25%
Jul 2011 CD4 494 UD 23%
Switched to Kivexa (Epzicom) + Viramune XR (due to kidney problems)
January 2012 CD4 564 UD 31%
October 2012 CD4 684 UD 29%
January 2013 CD4 594 UD 26%
Switched to Kivexa (Epzicom) + Isentress due to BIG increase GammaGT
Feb 2013 CD4 699 UD 28%
May 2013 CD4 385 UD 28%
July 2013 CD4 CD4 636 UD 25%
Oct 2013 CD4 588 UD 39%
Aug 2014 CD4 639 UD 25%

Offline AboutToStart

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  • Posts: 134
Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2009, 08:07:46 PM »
From a pure medical point of view of course your doctor is correct.. however there's more to life than pure medical concerns.. you should find your own balance.. Perhaps you guyz can check your virus strain and if you both have the same one(s) and you both take meds and undetecable then the risk is really low.. just a thought..

Offline David_CA

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2009, 08:58:01 PM »
No, I don't, and I've never met a HIV+ guy that practices safe sex (and I've 'met' plenty)!
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline ByTheBay

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2009, 10:09:47 PM »
My doctor reminded me at my last appointment (this week) "Do not have any unsafe sex. You are at risk for picking up a cross resistant strain".  Given my current numbers and struggle with HIV to date, I am taking his advice.  Not sure how this applies in general, but that was his advice to me on the subject.
3/12/2009 Tested Negative
5/22/2009 Tested Negative
9/17/2009 Tested Positive
9/25/2009 CD4 53  (10%) VL 57,305
9/28/2009 CD4 62  (7% )  VL: 57,305
10/3/2009 Started Truvada/Norvir/Prezista/ Septra/Bactrim and Rifabutin
11/02/2009  CD4  67 (15%) VL: 626
12/21/2009  CD4  56 (10%) VL: Undetectable
03/22/2010  CD4  46 (10%)  VL: Undetectable
06/23/2010 CD4 61 (13%) VL: Undetectable

Offline Forevergreen

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2009, 11:11:48 PM »
it seems like most doctors recommend not having unsafe sex to prevent reinfection, but most poz guys i know dont use protection and don't seem to have any problems with it. i wondering how common/likely reinfection really is.

Offline sharkdiver

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2009, 11:16:27 PM »
There have been many threads on this subject...you can do a search ya know

Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2009, 11:20:46 PM »
There have been many threads on this subject...you can do a search ya know

Maybe someone will come along and post a link. I am too lazy to do it about now.
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

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Offline ThomasHopper

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2009, 11:25:55 PM »
No, I don't, and I've never met a HIV+ guy that practices safe sex (and I've 'met' plenty)!
[/quote

Well, I got positive from receiving oral sex and have never had any anal sex.  So, there are a few of us out here for whatever reason that ended up with the virus from activities normally deemed safe by the statistics. 

So now you've met someone positive who practices safe sex. :)

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2009, 11:29:10 PM »
i wondering how common/likely reinfection really is.

Not very/hardly at all if both have undetectable viral loads for something like the previous 6 months to a year, can't recall from all the previous threads.

Most doctors are conservative and would ideally rather not deal with their patients having incessant bouts of anal warts, gonorrhea, anal syphilis, etc. which is really what condom use in between pozzies helps to lessen.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline next2u

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2009, 01:45:29 AM »
miss p hits it on the head as usual.

i dont have safe sex with others. i have not run into the individual who has the superstrain or who has been cross infected. she/he is the spook everyone talks about but noone really seems to know.

best,
d
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2009, 02:38:41 AM »


  I always practice safe sex ... safely in my room with my wife with the doors locked, however she never wears condoms and I don't either!
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Ann

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2009, 09:01:24 AM »
There have only been a handful of instances of reinfection and in all cases, the original infection the person was dealing with was less than one year old. That's a handful  of cases out of all the hundreds of thousands who are positive (and in developed countries where something like this is likely to be caught).

I'm in a poz/poz relationship and we never use condoms. It has not caused problems for either one of us.

However, I will say this - you two should both get checked for other  STIs before you bareback with each other. Although you don't need to worry about hiv, there are still other STIs out there and some of them - like syphilis - can be harder to treat when you're poz.

As long as neither one of you has another STI, and as long as neither one of you is very newly positive, then I wouldn't worry about it if I were you.

Poz on poz rocks! ;D

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline David_CA

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2009, 10:07:36 AM »
No, I don't, and I've never met a HIV+ guy that practices safe sex (and I've 'met' plenty)!
[/quote

Well, I got positive from receiving oral sex and have never had any anal sex.  So, there are a few of us out here for whatever reason that ended up with the virus from activities normally deemed safe by the statistics.  

So now you've met someone positive who practices safe sex. :)
Not really.  I put 'met' in quotes because I mean that I've had sex with them, not met them online.   ;)
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2009, 01:06:23 PM »
There was an article on a sister site this week that said Swiss study found many HIV+ (10%) men have anal chlamydia and don't know it. It's treatable.  
I guess if this is a dating boyfriend thing you can have a honest conversation and make a reasonable choice.
I have a friend who regularly goes on sex holidays in Berlin where its so easy to BB as much as you want.  He says he has had positive syphilis tests twice in two years.  But he takes the precaution to get tested for all these STD's after his holidays.  
Personally my sex life has been extremely sporadic and limited since seroconversion and one reason is because I can't establish my principles on this.
 
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Nestor

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2009, 02:22:49 PM »
For my doctor the main problem would be the risk of Hepatitis C, which, she says, is transmissible through bb sex.  That is not an easily solved or cured problem.  Is this true?  Is there much danger of getting Hep C through unprotected sex? 
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2009, 03:23:42 PM »
Is there much danger of getting Hep C through unprotected sex? 

Yeah, if you like to get fisted a lot.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline TheRoof

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2009, 06:03:54 PM »
This is what makes me nervous. Myself I can see myself dating another POZ guy in the future. I pretty much think to myself that it's a must to have protection involved, as I don't feel like taking risks, especially since I already got this "risk". It's a personal decision.

I' do see that a lot of POZ guys practice condom less sex. Just from like websites, etc.  If you're a bottom. I heard that there is an 8:1 ratio risk. A bottom is 8 more times likely to get an STD through BB sex then the top. Because of the blood vessel canals.

Though any risk is risk. Of course. Though it makes sense that the bottom or the top would have higher risk/lower risk outcomes. etc.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2009, 06:15:25 PM by TheRoof »

Offline Scotian

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2009, 07:16:57 PM »
I have no intention of engaging in unprotected sex. I'm sure part of  that comes from just being  a year and a half out from diagnosis. My emotional/physical health has returned ---and I want to keep it that way. I'm less worried about 'super strains' of HIV than Hep C  or HPV ( see http://www.cdc.gov/STD/HPV/STDFact-HPV.htm)   As has been said over and over on this site--everyone is different--we make our choices and live with the consequences. Today, I'm not willing to take the risk.

Offline Nestor

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2009, 07:36:04 PM »
Quote
Is there much danger of getting Hep C through unprotected sex? 


Yeah, if you like to get fisted a lot.

Is that because it requires the presence of blood?  But surely there may be cuts even without fisting? I would like to know what the chances are of getting Hep C from sex.   

As for the other STDs mentioned below:

Quote
Most doctors are conservative and would ideally rather not deal with their patients having incessant bouts of anal warts, gonorrhea, anal syphilis, etc. which is really what condom use in between pozzies helps to lessen.

I too would prefer not to have frequent bouts of any of those things!  HIV is enough.  But I am wondering--how great is the danger?  Those who say:

Quote
No, I don't, and I've never met a HIV+ guy that practices safe sex (and I've 'met' plenty)!

Do these guys whom you've 'met' have "incessant bouts of anal warts, gonorrhea, anal syphilis, etc."? 

Quote
I have a friend who regularly goes on sex holidays in Berlin where its so easy to BB as much as you want.  He says he has had positive syphilis tests twice in two years.  But he takes the precaution to get tested for all these STD's after his holidays. 

This suggests that the danger is real enough.  Syphilis twice in two years?  Is that typical of someone having bb sex?  Does he consider it 'no big deal' or a price worth paying?

 What do others here think?

Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline madbrain

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2009, 07:39:23 PM »
Most of the poz guys I have met insist on bb sex or no sex at all ! I really don't get that part. The other STDs are quite nasty. I normally walk away in that type of situation when a guy asks me for bb or nothing. In august, I made a big mistake and topped one guy bb at a bathhouse. A month later I had some very nasty syphilis symptoms. I won't get into the details, but it was much worse than anything HIV has ever done to me. Fortunately, I didn't get hep C. The syphilis was treated in late september, and I'm no longer contagious. And my bf who hardly ever has sex with me did not contract it, fortunately. Though he still had the penicilin shots preventively in case his test was a false negative and he was still in the incubation period. The lady at the health dept told me the syphilis will be in my system forever. My doctor will monitor my RPR for the next 2 years to check how low it goes.
The syphilis doesn't appear to have affected my HIV progression. In fact, I got my highest tcell count ever recorded 2 weeks after being treated for it. My viral load went up but is still very low.

I have also contracted other STDs in the past (chlamydia, gonorrhea) but it was through oral, not bb sex. They are not fun either, but fortunately those can be cleared up completely fairly easily if caught in time. Unfortunately, those other bugs are much easier to transmit than HIV. And good luck getting someone to have oral with condoms. I bought flavored condoms, but there aren't many takers for them.

You already know that you can't take someone at their word that they don't have HIV. Why would it be any different for any other STD status ? Unfortunately, even STD test results don't mean a whole lot, since each STD has an incubation period, and many people are carriers of them but don't have symptoms. If you are going to have unprotected sex of any kind with multiple partners, even oral sex, the only thing you can do is get tested regularly for those other STDs. Say at least every 4-6 months, or earlier if you have symptoms. But eventually you are going to catch something else. Just hope it's not hep C or syphilis because those are the nastiest.

Offline brian davis

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2009, 08:28:03 PM »
Hey well my wife and i are BOTH longterm survivors with HIV and we know the risks and have simply decided not to use condoms. Its a judgement call that one should be fully educated on before making a decision. This probably isnt very helpful but its what  ihad to add.

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2009, 08:46:47 PM »
Most of the poz guys I have met insist on bb sex or no sex at all !

I'm surprised by that. It's like someone offering you a cookie and then you turn it down because it is not chocolate chip.  Hello! it's a free cookie!!!

Offline TheRoof

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2009, 09:17:18 PM »
I'm surprised by that. It's like someone offering you a cookie and then you turn it down because it is not chocolate chip.  Hello! it's a free cookie!!!

Usually a Top who likes BB might say. Sex feels better w/o a condom. Obviously. Idk... personally the bottom might be more at risk for an STD (again) then the top. Risk is still risk, but some activity is riskier then others. Like Bareback Bottoming.

So if I do start dating a Poz Guy I pray he doesn't pressure me into going BB eventually. Which I think might happen anyway.  :-[


Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2009, 09:18:23 PM »
Well duh, of course you're going to get STD's barebacking in a bath house.  That's like Homosexuality 101.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline madbrain

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2009, 09:37:11 PM »
Well duh, of course you're going to get STD's barebacking in a bath house.  That's like Homosexuality 101.

Thanks for the helpful comments MissP, you really added a lot of value to the discussion.

I don't think the bathhouses are any worse than bars or hooking up online when it comes to the risk for contracting STDs. I had never visited a bathhouse before I got HIV or chlamydia. I only started going to bathhouses post HIV,  when my disclosure made it more difficult to meet guys outside.

Offline Nestor

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2009, 09:41:30 PM »
Quote
If you are going to have unprotected sex of any kind with multiple partners, even oral sex, the only thing you can do is get tested regularly for those other STDs. Say at least every 4-6 months, or earlier if you have symptoms. But eventually you are going to catch something else. Just hope it's not hep C or syphilis because those are the nastiest.

Do we not automatically get tested for these things every time we get our "labs" (why don't they just call them blood tests?) done every four months?  I know every time I see my doctor one of the things she says is "you don't have any other STDs".  She doesn't recite what the STDs are which I don't have.  One time I specifically asked if I had Herpes and she said I hadn't been tested for it, so I know I'm not being tested for everything. 
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2009, 10:47:56 PM »
Do we not automatically get tested for these things every time we get our "labs" (why don't they just call them blood tests?) done every four months?  I know every time I see my doctor one of the things she says is "you don't have any other STDs".  She doesn't recite what the STDs are which I don't have.  One time I specifically asked if I had Herpes and she said I hadn't been tested for it, so I know I'm not being tested for everything. 

I don't believe that these tests are done every time, Nestor.  Some of them are very specific and probably would require additional blood samples to be drawn.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline David_CA

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2009, 10:48:26 PM »
I'll respond to this, since I'm the one that you quoted:
Quote
Quote
No, I don't, and I've never met a HIV+ guy that practices safe sex (and I've 'met' plenty)!

and your response
Quote
Do these guys whom you've 'met' have "incessant bouts of anal warts, gonorrhea, anal syphilis, etc."?
Let me say that, and I absolutely do not mean this to be mean, this is one of the most ignorant sounding things I've ever been asked on these forums!  No, of course they don't, and neither do I.  In fact, besides HIV, I've only been (mis)diagnosed once with syphilis.  It's funny to me... so many guys here say they'd never have unprotected sex, but that really does not 'match' the reality that I (and every HIV+ gay guy I can think of) know.

Is that because it requires the presence of blood?  But surely there may be cuts even without fisting? I would like to know what the chances are of getting Hep C from sex.  

As for the other STDs mentioned below:

I too would prefer not to have frequent bouts of any of those things!  HIV is enough.  But I am wondering--how great is the danger?  Those who say:

Do these guys whom you've 'met' have "incessant bouts of anal warts, gonorrhea, anal syphilis, etc."?  

This suggests that the danger is real enough.  Syphilis twice in two years?  Is that typical of someone having bb sex?  Does he consider it 'no big deal' or a price worth paying?

 What do others here think?


« Last Edit: November 15, 2009, 10:51:24 PM by David_NC »
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
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Offline madbrain

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2009, 12:30:23 AM »
I'm surprised by that. It's like someone offering you a cookie and then you turn it down because it is not chocolate chip.  Hello! it's a free cookie!!!

As far as I can tell, most of the poz guys who disclose their status publicly are looking for BB . It's very apparent if you look at, say craigslist ads. It seems to be the main reason for their disclosure. It takes a lot to convince one to play safe, and usually can't be done in my experience. Most of the other 90% of poz guys just don't disclose. Who knows if they are playing safe or not. It has happened a few times that guys disclosed to me that they were poz only after I did, in the hope of playing bb. Yes, bb definitely feels better in the moment. But the consequences can be difficult and long-lasting unfortunately.

Offline mecch

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2009, 12:35:51 AM »
A month later I had some very nasty syphilis symptoms. I won't get into the details, but it was much worse than anything HIV has ever done to me. Fortunately, I didn't get hep C. The syphilis was treated in late september, and I'm no longer contagious. ..... The lady at the health dept told me the syphilis will be in my system forever.

Hmm I didn't know syphilis is forever....  And why would you have worried about having got Hep C from a f*ck, since it is blood borne?
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Nestor

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2009, 12:39:52 AM »
Quote
"Do these guys whom you've 'met' have "incessant bouts of anal warts, gonorrhea, anal syphilis, etc."?

"Let me say that, and I absolutely do not mean this to be mean, this is one of the most ignorant sounding things I've ever been asked on these forums!  No, of course they don't, and neither do I.


I'm awfully sorry if I've offended you, but just how is my question ignorant-sounding?  In fact, how can a question be ignorant?  I am trying to ascertain fact here.  How great, in fact, is the risk of various STDs?  Miss Philicia said that the reason doctors don't want their patients having unsafe sex is that they do not want those patients having "frequent bouts of syphilis etc. etc."  My own doctor's attitude is quite typical of the sort of thing Miss P describes.  The logical question (or at least the question which, in my ignorance, appears logical to me) is: are the fears of those doctors well-founded or not?  Are those doctors being worry-warts or are they being realistic? 

This is a question of burning relevance for many of us here.  Because if the danger of syphilis etc. is really minimal, then we've been decieved by our over-cautious doctors, and we shall curse them when we realise that we wasted the best years of our lives with condoms when we should have been flinging caution to the wind and gathering rose-buds while we may and so forth.  But if on the other hand our doctors are right, then when we wake up with corpuscles on some intimate parts of our anatomy or are having warts cryogenically frozen off of others, we shall not have very kind thoughts, at that moment, for those who led us down the primrose path with the idea that it was all no big deal and that our doctors were all just fuddy-duddies. 

I thought the point of a thread like this is for us to learn answers to such questions by considering each others' experiences. 

To help us answer that question, we've already had one person in this discussion who mentions someone who got syphilis twice in two years.  Madbrain has also mentioned his experiences which suggest that the point of view of the doctors whom Miss P mentions is reasonable rather than unreasonable. 

Since you had mentioned that neither you nor the plenty of poz guys whom you'd met practiced safe sex, I thought it was reasonable to wonder what light your experience shed on the qustion.  Thank you for answering.  I'm extremely happy to learn that your experience and that of your friends has proven those doctors wrong. 

But--to return to our starting point--where was the ignorance in my question?  Does it lie in the fact that bb sex is universally known to be really harmless, and that every non-ignorant person recognises the fact, and only fools listen to those silly doctors?  Your use of the word "of course" suggests that, but the experiences of others who have commented here suggests otherwise. 
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline mecch

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2009, 12:45:18 AM »
Dear, I don't think anyone says BB is without risk.
Maybe those who bb and never got STDS have great immunity, or negotiate and know their partners and reduce their risk through honest communication, or are lucky.
Go sleaze around London, Paris or New York bb hot spots, with no communication with your partners, and you can see the obvious risks, can't you?
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline madbrain

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2009, 12:46:30 AM »
Do we not automatically get tested for these things every time we get our "labs" (why don't they just call them blood tests?) done every four months?  I know every time I see my doctor one of the things she says is "you don't have any other STDs".  She doesn't recite what the STDs are which I don't have.  One time I specifically asked if I had Herpes and she said I hadn't been tested for it, so I know I'm not being tested for everything.  

I don't actually, I have to ask specifically to get tested for other things. STD tests are not automatic every 3 months at Kaiser. Only the VL/CD4 are.

And maybe we don't call them blood tests because some of the tests are actually urine tests or (sigh) swabs.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2009, 12:48:37 AM by madbrain »

Offline Nestor

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2009, 12:53:00 AM »
Quote
And why would you have worried about having got Hep C from a f*ck, since it is blood borne?

I have asked the same question in this very thread.  My doctor told me that I could get Hep C from unprotected anal sex.  I then looked at the literature on Hep C in the waiting room at the clinic, and it only talked about drug use as a risk; when I mentioned this to my doctor she said that that literature needed to be updated, and that Hep C has been transmitted through sex.

I have asked, in this thread, whether or not what she said was true.  Miss Philicia replied with the suggestion that only fisting carried that risk, and I asked why;  as of now that is where the conversation stands.  

Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline madbrain

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2009, 12:55:06 AM »
Hmm I didn't know syphilis is forever....  And why would you have worried about having got Hep C from a f*ck, since it is blood borne?

Hep C is still sexually transmissible, even though it's not a common route. My HIV doc didn't question ordering the test.
Wikipedia says this about hep C transmission through sex :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatitis_C

Sexual exposure

"Sexual transmission of HCV is considered to be rare. Studies show the risk of sexual transmission in heterosexual, monogamous relationships is extremely rare or even null.[17][18] The CDC does not recommend the use of condoms between long-term monogamous discordant couples (where one partner is positive and the other is negative).[19] However, because of the high prevalence of hepatitis C, this small risk may translate into a non-trivial number of cases transmitted by sexual routes. Vaginal penetrative sex is believed to have a lower risk of transmission than sexual practices that involve higher levels of trauma to anogenital mucosa (anal penetrative sex, fisting, use of sex toys).[20]"
« Last Edit: November 16, 2009, 01:02:21 AM by madbrain »

Offline Nestor

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2009, 01:02:30 AM »
Madbrain,

My tests have included a urine test only once in four years.  They take five vials of blood, and every time I see my doctor she 1) tells me about CD4 and VL, 2) talks about my blood sugar and cholesterol, and 3)announces that I have no other STDs or hepatitis.  I've never asked specifically which STDs they are that I don't have, except for the one time when I asked about herpes and she said that they didn't test for that.  But she has to be talking about something!  

This reminds me of one of my earliest visits to that clinic.  Being new to HIV and not really knowing what my "numbers" trajectory would be, I was rather nervous about the whole thing.  Someone came into the waiting room and called out a Christian name which happens to be mine.  I dutifully followed him into a room where a doctor who was not my doctor was waiting.  This doctor looked at me with a compassionate look and said solemnly: "So, you've tested postiive for HIV and several other STDs...."  I felt faint and saw spots in front of my eyes, I trembled--for about a second.  Then I realised that the way in which he had said it was not at all the way he would have said it to someone to whom the information was new; he spoke as if he were mentioning facts well known to his interlocutor, and he was surprised when he saw me look surprised by what he had said.  It turned out that I was one of two people with the same given name in the clinic, and they had gotten the wrong one!   Perhaps that's an argument against excessive informality in the public sphere? 
« Last Edit: November 16, 2009, 01:05:42 AM by Nestor »
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline madbrain

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2009, 01:06:11 AM »
Hey well my wife and i are BOTH longterm survivors with HIV and we know the risks and have simply decided not to use condoms. Its a judgement call that one should be fully educated on before making a decision. This probably isnt very helpful but its what  ihad to add.

That's probably OK if you are in a monogamous relationship. The OP asked partners, plural. That's a different situation.

Offline madbrain

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2009, 01:13:04 AM »
Madbrain,

My tests have included a urine test only once in four years.  They take five vials of blood, and every time I see my doctor she 1) tells me about CD4 and VL, 2) talks about my blood sugar and cholesterol, and 3)announces that I have no other STDs or hepatitis.  I've never asked specifically which STDs they are that I don't have, except for the one time when I asked about herpes and she said that they didn't test for that.  But she has to be talking about something!  

It sounds like your clinic has a more stringent protocol for tests.
Kaiser uses urine tests for chlamydia and gonorrhea, and/or swabs, which can be painful.
The syphilis is checked for through blood tests.

Quote
This reminds me of one of my earliest visits to that clinic.  Being new to HIV and not really knowing what my "numbers" trajectory would be, I was rather nervous about the whole thing.  Someone came into the waiting room and called out a Christian name which happens to be mine.  I dutifully followed him into a room where a doctor who was not my doctor was waiting.  This doctor looked at me with a compassionate look and said solemnly: "So, you've tested postiive for HIV and several other STDs...."  I felt faint and saw spots in front of my eyes, I trembled--for about a second.  Then I realised that the way in which he had said it was not at all the way he would have said it to someone to whom the information was new; he spoke as if he were mentioning facts well known to his interlocutor, and he was surprised when he saw me look surprised by what he had said.  It turned out that I was one of two people with the same given name in the clinic, and they had gotten the wrong one!   Perhaps that's an argument against excessive informality in the public sphere? 

Sorry to hear about that experience. It sounds like a rather awful way to learn about your HIV status. Though, to be honest, I don't think there is a good one.

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2009, 01:27:24 AM »
It takes a lot to convince one to play safe, and usually can't be done in my experience.

So guys kick you out of bed when you want to use a condom? Having been sexually active in the 80's this is like Bizarro World to me.

Offline Nestor

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2009, 01:50:26 AM »
Madbrain,

I should have been more clear.  That was not (thankfully) the way I learned I had HIV, although the way I did learn was not much better.  I knew I had HIV, and this was probably my third time finding out the results of a set of labs, but as far as I knew (and in fact) I had no other STDs, so that hearing a doctor who was a total stranger tell me without preface that I had tested positive for "several" STDs besides HIV was the shock. 

GSO,  it has happened to me.  There is a poz guy I've chatted with online several times.  He seems quite attractive from his pictures and he was very eager to meet me and have condomless sex.  I said it all sounded great but I would want a condom.  No, he said.  Sex with a condom just wasn't interesting to him.  He then painted a pornographic picture of how great it would be without a condom, and urged me to try it.  It was as a result of that online encounter that I asked my doctor about unsafe sex and she said what she did about Hep C, and reading the descriptions of Hep C I concluded that it wasn't worth it.  When I met my online "friend" again I asked him whether he was worried about such things and he said "I don't want to live forever; I want to enjoy my life."  I replied that it wasn't really a question of living forever or even of length of life, but rather of quality of life.  I would find life somewhat less enjoyable if it involved a lot of being treated for STDs, especially on top of HIV.  I think the conversation--and our online "relationship", ended there.  Ironically, I've had great relations with various negative men, always with condoms, and I don't they diminish the experience at all.  In fact if I did have bb sex I would probably spend the time worrying about whether I was going to infect him or whether he was going to infect me, and that worrying would diminish the pleasure somewhat more than a condom would. 
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2009, 02:14:13 AM »
Just to be clear I don't have issue with HIV+ people who want to have sex without condoms and I don't think aside from other STDs there are significant dangers. I'm just very surprised all these guys refuse to have sex with condoms.

Offline madbrain

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2009, 02:48:54 AM »
So guys kick you out of bed when you want to use a condom? Having been sexually active in the 80's this is like Bizarro World to me.

Not exactly like that. But they tell me not to come over when I say I don't bb, after I already have their address or other contact info, ie. far enough into the hookup process that I know things would go differently if I did bb. I only get that kind of reaction from the self-identified poz guys. The neg guys, or at least those that self-identify as neg, are happy to use condoms. Obviously they are not all really neg.

Speaking of bizarro. I even ran into one guy online who listed his status as poz. This was on adam4adam. he said he played safe with negs, but bb with poz only. Sure enough, after he saw my poz status in my profile there, he asked me for bb. And when I declined he didn't want to play at all. I asked him to just pretend that I was neg, so we could use condoms. But that was too much for him.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2009, 02:54:25 AM by madbrain »

Offline leese43

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2009, 03:02:12 AM »
This thread reminded me of a mail I received on a dating site a month back:

him - i see you have herpes genital too! mmmm ! do you have many outbreaks? (as i cant use condom) xx

me - You don't beat around the bush do you! Who said anything about sex yet??  But as you asked, yes I got 2 for the price of 1.. I don't have outbreaks often, i'm on Valtrax which surpresses it but i think this is a non-starter anyway cos i definately wouldn't go without a condom until i knew the guy very well..

I never heard from him again!! lol
Oct 04 - Neg
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July 10 - cd4 330 vl 118k
Aug 10 - started reyataz/truvada/norvir
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Offline skeebo1969

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2009, 07:34:36 AM »
This thread reminded me of a mail I received on a dating site a month back:

him - i see you have herpes genital too! mmmm ! do you have many outbreaks? (as i cant use condom) xx

me - You don't beat around the bush do you! Who said anything about sex yet??  But as you asked, yes I got 2 for the price of 1.. I don't have outbreaks often, i'm on Valtrax which surpresses it but i think this is a non-starter anyway cos i definately wouldn't go without a condom until i knew the guy very well..

I never heard from him again!! lol

There's still hope for the heterosexual male yet!  Sheeesh, he's probably that guy who complains on some forum how he's such a great guy but can't find Mrs. Perfect because he's positive.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline David_CA

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #45 on: November 16, 2009, 08:34:43 AM »
Don't worry; you didn't really offend me... I did chuckle, though!  By extension, having 'met' these guys (had sex), you would be asking me if I've had those"incessant bouts of anal warts, gonorrhea, anal syphilis, etc." that Miss P mentioned.  The answer would be no, I have not.  I ask for a complete STD test every other set of labs... so far, so good. 

While I don't think that the Dr's are wrong, do they see the full picture?  Until a patient has another STD, the logical assumption from a Dr would be that he was practicing safe sex (assuming he was having sex with multiple partners).  Also, do you think most people are going to tell their Dr if they are out having BB sex with multiple partners?  I'm sure some do, but I know for a fact that some (most?) don't.






I'm awfully sorry if I've offended you, but just how is my question ignorant-sounding?  In fact, how can a question be ignorant?  I am trying to ascertain fact here.  How great, in fact, is the risk of various STDs?  Miss Philicia said that the reason doctors don't want their patients having unsafe sex is that they do not want those patients having "frequent bouts of syphilis etc. etc."  My own doctor's attitude is quite typical of the sort of thing Miss P describes.  The logical question (or at least the question which, in my ignorance, appears logical to me) is: are the fears of those doctors well-founded or not?  Are those doctors being worry-warts or are they being realistic? 

This is a question of burning relevance for many of us here.  Because if the danger of syphilis etc. is really minimal, then we've been decieved by our over-cautious doctors, and we shall curse them when we realise that we wasted the best years of our lives with condoms when we should have been flinging caution to the wind and gathering rose-buds while we may and so forth.  But if on the other hand our doctors are right, then when we wake up with corpuscles on some intimate parts of our anatomy or are having warts cryogenically frozen off of others, we shall not have very kind thoughts, at that moment, for those who led us down the primrose path with the idea that it was all no big deal and that our doctors were all just fuddy-duddies. 

I thought the point of a thread like this is for us to learn answers to such questions by considering each others' experiences. 

To help us answer that question, we've already had one person in this discussion who mentions someone who got syphilis twice in two years.  Madbrain has also mentioned his experiences which suggest that the point of view of the doctors whom Miss P mentions is reasonable rather than unreasonable. 

Since you had mentioned that neither you nor the plenty of poz guys whom you'd met practiced safe sex, I thought it was reasonable to wonder what light your experience shed on the qustion.  Thank you for answering.  I'm extremely happy to learn that your experience and that of your friends has proven those doctors wrong. 

But--to return to our starting point--where was the ignorance in my question?  Does it lie in the fact that bb sex is universally known to be really harmless, and that every non-ignorant person recognises the fact, and only fools listen to those silly doctors?  Your use of the word "of course" suggests that, but the experiences of others who have commented here suggests otherwise. 
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
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05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
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Offline elf

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #46 on: November 16, 2009, 02:32:49 PM »
I haven't practiced any sex since my diagnosis.  :)
Let's have a Kiki!

Offline newt

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #47 on: November 16, 2009, 05:09:12 PM »
Personally, if you know someone well enough to have discussed their mother, fucking without condoms is okay. Sure, there is a risk they's a tramp but there's antibiotics, so get tested regular like n make sure you have their mother's phone number.

Life is too short to worry about reinfection with HIV with people you really like, I mean, people dink n drive n get on the same roads as you and you don;t know who they are from Adam. - matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline next2u

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #48 on: November 16, 2009, 10:24:46 PM »
on the hep c note...
as someone who picked up all the other shit after (you've seen my other threads) except for hep c this is what my experience has taught me.

stds happen, frequently.
as a pozzie, stds happen between other pozzies, frequently.
my dr, and society at large, wants me to stop having sex so they can sleep better at night.

my dr also told me that hep c is not primarily transmitted through unprotected poz on poz sex. my person an i discussed fhis and have decided not to use condoms.

i dont know how long ive had hep c
i dont think i got it sexually.
ive been pierced a number of times and they werent always by professionals.


my hep c is barely active (?). we weren't able to get enough of the hcv from my blood to do any tests after my last draw (and i drink like a sailor in and out of rehab).


i do not practice safe sex with other poz partners. i practiced safe sex up until 2 years ago. play at your own risk. men lie. and men do not know. and a lot of men do not want to know. (insert women if necessarY)
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline GNYC09

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #49 on: November 16, 2009, 10:39:29 PM »
stds happen, frequently.
...including crabs! eek.  :o

Offline Ann

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #50 on: November 17, 2009, 11:07:58 AM »


make sure you have their mother's phone number.



LOL... "If you give me an STI, I'm gonna ring yer mum and tell on you!"


...including crabs! eek.  :o


Tiny livestock, as my step-sister calls them. ;D

On a more serious note, although hep C is not generally considered a sexually transmitted infection, there is growing evidence that hiv positive men who have sex with men are more susceptible to the sexual transmission of hep C.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/705383

http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/hiv_hcv_co_inf/2009/090109_a.html

http://www.natap.org/2009/CROI/croi_62.htm

It's worth noting that this study took place in Europe and so far, there is no evidence that the same is happening in the States. However, that may be because the phenomenon has not yet been looked at in depth in the States.

If you're barebacking with people other than a monogamous partner, it's worth keeping in mind and testing regularly - at least annually - for hcv. Anyone who is hiv positive should be regularly screened for hcv anyway.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #51 on: November 17, 2009, 11:22:21 AM »

It's worth noting that this study took place in Europe and so far, there is no evidence that the same is happening in the States. However, that may be because the phenomenon has not yet been looked at in depth in the States.

There were a few reports of groupings in NYC, but I think it's a bit early to draw much of a conclusion.  Like any of these things where you have to do interviews of sexual practices with people that infected, I'm often left wondering about how reliable it is.  But we'll see. 

Of course, as always the worriers will seize on this as a reason to wrap their entire body in cellophane.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #52 on: November 17, 2009, 11:41:28 AM »
Of course, as always the worriers will seize on this as a reason to wrap their entire body in cellophane.
And duct tape?
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
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Offline Ann

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #53 on: November 17, 2009, 11:43:06 AM »
And duct tape?

Ah yes, don't forget the duct tape!
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline next2u

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #54 on: November 17, 2009, 11:56:52 AM »
i got tested for hep c after a recent bout of gonorrhea. as far as we can tell it was my first test for hep c.

getting tested is definitely recommended. if the dr hadn't thought the worst of me (he assumed i picked it up with the gonorrhea during some fun at the beginning of the year) i would have never known.

it's fucked the way the shit came to light but im happy to know.
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
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Offline Ann

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #55 on: November 17, 2009, 12:17:01 PM »
D, earlier in this thread you said:


my hep c is barely active (?). we weren't able to get enough of the hcv from my blood to do any tests after my last draw


It could be that you've cleared the virus on your own (around 20% of people infected with hcv will). You should get another hvc VL sometime in the New Year. If you're undetectable, chances are good this is the case with you. If you were not completely undetectable when the last hcv VL was taken, it could be that it was a new infection that your body was in the process of clearing. You should be having a hcv VL taken no less than once a year anyway, until such time as you've been undetectable for a few years, either through your own body clearing it or through treatment.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline TheRoof

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #56 on: November 17, 2009, 01:46:20 PM »
My doctor was telling me after I got diagnosed with HIV is that I shouldn't worry about it so much. She said "If you had Hepatitis C" you would have more issues with it. (Not quite sure what she meant)

She even said that Hep C people wish they had HIV rather then Hep C. So I wonder what causes more symptoms. Basically my good friend who is in medical also said that Hepatitis C is usually more bothersome to deal with then HIV.  Anyone heard of that.

Offline rmgjunk

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #57 on: November 17, 2009, 05:05:11 PM »
She even said that Hep C people wish they had HIV rather then Hep C. So I wonder what causes more symptoms. Basically my good friend who is in medical also said that Hepatitis C is usually more bothersome to deal with then HIV.  Anyone heard of that.

I'm not sure about the desease's symtoms, I've read/heard its even more "silent" then HIV.  But my doctor told be the treatment is a bitch.  Some type of interferon that has severe side effects, including psychological/psychiatric effects that make sustiva look good.
14-Sep-2009 Tested positive
Last labs: VL <47, CD4 441/29%
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Offline sensual1973

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #58 on: November 17, 2009, 06:38:38 PM »
Before my recovery i would bb with poz guys coz i was off my face most of the time,but gladly i didnt get any STDs.Now am sober,i wouldnt bb with a poz unles in a relation.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things i can not change.

Offline blondbeauty

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #59 on: November 17, 2009, 07:00:15 PM »
I have had a few poz partners after diagnosis that were being treated for HIV and had no other STD. We have practiced unprotected sex. None of us has had a rebound in viral load or any other health problem. With occasional partners I always have protected sex which did not prevent me from catching gonorrhea once.
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Offline newt

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #60 on: November 17, 2009, 07:09:43 PM »
Quote
"If you give me an STI, I'm gonna ring yer mum and tell on you!"

Yes, this seems to work  ;D Especially with crabs, who knows who will stay next.

On the hep C, see this LATEST report on Aidsmap

Blood rather than semen mode of HCV transmission in HIV-positive gay men
http://www.aidsmap.com/en/news/A09A01F6-5833-4BF5-8F26-639CA03C18C4.asp

I am glad to see Dr Sanjay Bhagani, top UK hep C doc saying many infections could probably be attributed to injecting drug use rather than sex. I have been advocating this position for 2 years.

This said, I think the Q of hep C transmission in gay men is unsettled. I personally do not think unprotected fucking is enough in itself based on research to date, unless it's a technically inept n bloody shag. But the jury, strictly speaking, is still out.

And yes, I would rather have HIV than hep C, even tho there is a chance of a cure with the latter.

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #61 on: November 17, 2009, 07:16:34 PM »
Thanks for that link.  Never share rolled paper money and/or straws when snorting coke!

edit: whoa, 50% of those boys reported receptive fisting... ah yes, they're Germans.  That explains everything. (and is why I joked about Hep C and fisting earlier in this thread)
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 07:26:16 PM by Miss Philicia »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline BlueMoon

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #62 on: November 17, 2009, 07:18:28 PM »
I've barebacked with other poz guys because I'm only mildly concerned about HIV superinfection.

However, it seems there's always a price to be paid for the good things in life.  I just scheduled an appointment today for a lumbar puncture to check for neurosyphilis.   :(

Apparently a low CD4 count heightens the risk of 'regular' syphilis getting into the brain.   ::)
...................VL.....CD4.....%
-----------------------------------------
08/10-- ......<40.....290.....42
05/10-- ......<48.....290.....46
02/10-- ......<48.....481.....44
10/09-- ......<48.....277.....46
07/09-- ......<48.....300.....38
05/09-- ........51.....449.....39
03/09-- Added Isentress
02/09-- ........65.....299.....34
11/08-- ........62.....242.....40
08/08-- ........66.....212.....29
05/08-- ......202.....217.....27
03/08-- ....5210.....187.....21
02/08-- Began Truvada/Reyataz/Norvir
12/07-- 273,000.....157.....22
11/07-- 229,000.....209.....22
10/07-- Diagnosis

It's a complex world.

Offline newt

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #63 on: November 17, 2009, 07:25:21 PM »
Yer, I live in a town where syphilis is "rife" - the blokes I shag, we all get tested ultra regular and around the same time (we have syncronised, yikes) and compare notes, unusual but the way to go -- odd to come to the realisation you live in a petri dish in the age of civil partnerships. Condoms, alas, not hugely protective of syphilis, very bad for poz folk to get this, depletes CD4 count. - matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline madbrain

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #64 on: November 17, 2009, 10:39:40 PM »
I have had a few poz partners after diagnosis that were being treated for HIV and had no other STD. We have practiced unprotected sex. None of us has had a rebound in viral load or any other health problem. With occasional partners I always have protected sex which did not prevent me from catching gonorrhea once.

Did you use condoms for oral too ? Gonorrhea is easy to transmit that way.
http://std.about.com/od/riskfactorsforstds/a/oralsexsafesex.htm
So is syphilis :(

Offline madbrain

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #65 on: November 17, 2009, 10:40:47 PM »
Condoms, alas, not hugely protective of syphilis, very bad for poz folk to get this, depletes CD4 count. - matt[/font]

Unless you use condoms for oral too. But it's very tough to convince anyone to do it.

Offline edfu

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #66 on: November 18, 2009, 12:31:36 AM »
Thanks, Ann, for posting the links about how gay HIV+ men may be "more susceptible to the sexual transmission of hep C," and thanks, matt, for pointing out that "hep C transmission in gay men is unsettled," and that "the jury...is still out."  

I wanted to post those links myself, but being an old fart and a coward, I refrained from from being the first to do so.  I just knew I would be accused of wrapping my "entire body in cellophane."  Of course, I do admit that I go through 1,000,000 cubic feet of Saran Wrap a week, but that's neither here nor there.  No one would care one way or the other.  

Whoa, Nellie, bar the door:  I just cannot understand--what with hep C, syphilis, gonorrhea, etc.--why the use of a condom is so destructive to "intimacy" in these parlous times.  Of course, I fully understand why the issue has generally failed in safer-sex regimens for those who are HIV- or do not know.  This is an issue that can be debated ad nauseam, but if someone is already HIV+, why would someone do something that could be extremely deleterious to one's health?  Why would one take the chance of acquiring an additional virus that might result in cirrhosis of the liver, liver failure, and the need for a liver transplant?

What is the difference between sero-sorting withough taking safer-sex precautions and refusing to take HAART?    
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 03:39:57 AM by edfu »
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Offline komnaes

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #67 on: November 18, 2009, 01:57:24 AM »
... make sure you have their mother's phone number.

Not gonna work for some of us though.. I mean I hope mind would just say, "yeah, so? I have HIV too. Big deal." (Well no of course she's never going to respond this well)
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline Cliff

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #68 on: November 18, 2009, 03:49:24 AM »
Whoa, Nellie, bar the door:  I just cannot understand--what with hep C, syphilis, gonorrhea, etc.--why the use of a condom is so destructive to "intimacy" in these parlous times.  Of course, I fully understand why the issue has generally failed in safer-sex regimens for those who are HIV- or do not know.  This is an issue that can be debated ad nauseam, but if someone is already HIV+, why would someone do something that could be extremely deleterious to one's health?  Why would one take the chance of acquiring an additional virus that might result in cirrhosis of the liver, liver failure, and the need for a liver transplant?

What is the difference between sero-sorting withough taking safer-sex precautions and refusing to take HAART?    
Are these really parlous times?  Don't seem like it to me.

I don't think issues with safer-sex/condom usage somehow magically disappear once you become positive. 

I do think you're overstating the risk of HCV transmission via sex, which as far as I can interpretate (both from personal data and this bash  of unbiased data above that you reference) is that it unconnected with bloodless sex/drugs.

And, there is a huge difference between sero-sorting sans condoms and refusing to take HAART.

Offline edfu

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #69 on: November 18, 2009, 04:23:15 AM »
"Parlous," according to Webster:  "full of danger or risk; hazardous."

In reference to hep C:  It has not yet been firmly established that it is NOT transmitted through unprotected anal sex having nothing to do with fisting (which is indeed a recognized transmission factor, along with intravenous drug-taking).  If the level of hep C in the semen of the insertive HIV+ partner is high, why it wouldn't it be as dangerous, if not more so, as semen from an insertive HIV+ partner with detectable viral load to an HIV- partner?       
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline Cliff

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #70 on: November 18, 2009, 05:03:10 AM »
I am familiar with the word, thanks.  Just think it's an exaggeration of the world we live in and the risk that exist.

Quote
If the level of hep C in the semen of the insertive HIV+ partner is high, why it wouldn't it be as dangerous, if not more so, as semen from an insertive HIV+ partner with detectable viral load to an HIV- partner?
Is this a genuine question or are you making an assumption that HCV must be easily transmitted via "normal" sex? 

From what I gather (reading the above) links and general discussion on HCV, that while HCV can be found in semen, it's not conclusive whether exchange of semen transmits HCV.  If it were easily transmitted, wouldn't there be a lot more co-infected people?  Wouldn't HCV be much more common?

Offline carousel

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #71 on: November 18, 2009, 05:21:46 AM »
Getting HCV certainly made me reevaluate my views on having protected sex, or indeed any sex at all.

I don't know about all the science, but my own experience is that I got it somehow during sex.  It certainly wasn't from having a fist or fists up my jacksie, it's just not my thing. 

Offline edfu

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #72 on: November 18, 2009, 05:38:17 AM »
it's not conclusive whether exchange of semen transmits HCV.  


Thanks, that's exactly what I'm stating and where the scientific evidence is at.  Proof and opinion are divided.  

If it were easily transmitted, wouldn't there be a lot more co-infected people?  Wouldn't HCV be much more common?

It's increasing.  Without any symptoms for years, no one knows for sure.  Do those who participate in BB activities test for hep C regularly?  
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 07:47:37 PM by edfu »
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline Cliff

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #73 on: November 18, 2009, 05:47:41 AM »
I don't know if it's consistent across all areas, but I think my clinic tests everyone, regardless of whether they consistently use condoms or not, once a year.  The battery of tests includes test for other STDs as well (along with measuring immunity to the other HVs).

Offline Ann

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #74 on: November 18, 2009, 11:41:32 AM »
My doctor was telling me after I got diagnosed with HIV is that I shouldn't worry about it so much. She said "If you had Hepatitis C" you would have more issues with it. (Not quite sure what she meant)

She even said that Hep C people wish they had HIV rather then Hep C. So I wonder what causes more symptoms. Basically my good friend who is in medical also said that Hepatitis C is usually more bothersome to deal with then HIV.  Anyone heard of that.

I'd rather have hep C. I have  had hep C. However, I wouldn't want hcv genotype 1b as this seems to be one of the most difficult to treat. I had genotype 3a and was treated in 2002-03 and as my hcv VL has been undetectable since around ten weeks into treatment, I've been declared cured. My last hcv VL was taken sometime earlier this year. More info about genotypes can be found here.

I had hep C for around 13 years before I became poz and I didn't have one single symptom of hep C until that time. After hiv seroconversion, I had all sorts of problems that couldn't be attributed to hiv but could be attributed to hcv. Coinfection with hiv is known to accelerate hcv progression in some people, and it did in me.

The treatment for hcv really sucks, but if it gets rid of it, it's worth it. Although nowdays they recommend treating genotype 3a for 24 weeks, I did it for 52 and if I had to do it all over again, I'd do a year again. My hiv-neg ex-husband also has genotype 3a and he only treated for 24 weeks and his virus came back on him. He refuses to try the treatment again. (wimp)


Some type of interferon that has severe side effects, including psychological/psychiatric effects that make sustiva look good.


The big difference between having side-effects from hiv meds and having side-effects from hcv meds is that you're only going to be on the hcv meds for a year. Knowing that, and knowing the meds were working, is what kept me taking them, regardless of side-effects. And let me tell you, the side-effects were pretty shitty. :o

The type of interferon is pegylated interferon alfa. Pegylated means that it's been formulated to stay in the system for longer. Before pegylated interferon, one had to inject three times a week. Pegylated interferon is injected once a week. Yes, that's right, you have to inject yourself. Interferon makes you feel like you have the flu. It's the same stuff your own body produces when you're ill and it's what triggers fevers and muscle aches etc. It's also produced by the body during hiv seroconversion - hence the ARS flu-like symptoms.

Interferon is a cytokine, a specific protein that is no stranger to the human body. In fact, the human body is constantly making interferon, and makes even greater amounts when trying to fight off an intruder, such as a virus. People experience this when suffering with the flu. When sick with the flu, the body makes extra interferon to defeat the virus causing the illness. The extra interferon causes symptoms such as fever, nausea, achy and sore muscles, joint pain and fatigue. This is called an antiviral effect. Interferon therapy is currently the gold standard in treatment for certain types of hepatitis B and C. source

The drug taken during hep C treatment that causes psychological side effects is Ribavirin.  There's a pretty good run-down of Ribavirin side-effects here, and I had them all except for nausea and vomiting and neutropenia. One side-effect they don't mention is the all-pervasive brainfog. I was lucky I could remember my own name some days, and ordinary things like chairs and tables became "thingies" and "whatsits". I call that year my black-hole year, because it's like a hazy, bad dream.


Wouldn't HCV be much more common?


Actually, there's around three times more people living with hep C than hiv. Even so, it's not thought to be normally sexually transmitted - although it does happen sometimes. It IS very easy to transmit (for example) in a medical setting where equipment hasn't been cleaned and sterilised properly. Unlike hiv, hcv can remain able to infect when outside the body and on environmental surfaces. This is why I refuse to go to a dentist who claims I have to have the last appointment of the day so that the equipment can be sterilised properly. Just like hiv, many people who have hcv don't know it. As I'm far more likely to get hep C from shoddily sterilised equipment than hiv, they can stuff their last appointment of the day. If a dentist can't be bothered to treat the equipment he uses on all people the same, I'll go elsewhere.

Ann
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 11:43:07 AM by Ann »
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #75 on: November 18, 2009, 11:53:48 AM »
Look, as far as I know there's a high prevalence of Hep C infection among non-injecting drug users, and knowing how many queens are out there snorting this and that every weekend and doing so in large groups where sharing of straws and pipes happens I think some of us here should probably be focusing on that phenomena instead of insisting folks are getting it from normal non-blood inducing anal sex.  I'd also think this accounts for much of the "clustering" of cases in large cities with large partying gay populations.

Why isn't this being mentioned here?  If you're going to party and snort things then do not share stuff.

Furthermore, keep in mind that when people are diagnosed with Hep C they're more likely to state that they had anal sex then they are to state they were using drugs (even if it didn't involve a needle) or engaged in fisting.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 11:58:06 AM by Miss Philicia »
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Offline Ann

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #76 on: November 18, 2009, 12:01:17 PM »
Well Miss P, I did mean to mention that in my last post above when I talked about hep C being able to be transmitted from objects in the environment, but  I forgot. Do I get a spanking? If not, why not?

It's true, it's true, it's true. Sharing straws or other snorting implements has been implicated in hep C transmission. I believe there's more evidence across the board to support this transmission vector than there is to support sexual transmission.

Happy now, Missy? ;D

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Ann

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #77 on: November 18, 2009, 12:04:42 PM »
Oh, and by the way, before anyone makes any erroneous assumptions about my hiv-neg ex-husband and I both having hep C, I didn't get it from sharing his willy, I got it from sharing his rig. OK?

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #78 on: November 18, 2009, 12:09:30 PM »
Well Miss P, I did mean to mention that in my last post above when I talked about hep C being able to be transmitted from objects in the environment, but  I forgot. Do I get a spanking? If not, why not?

It's true, it's true, it's true. Sharing straws or other snorting implements has been implicated in hep C transmission. I believe there's more evidence across the board to support this transmission vector than there is to support sexual transmission.

Happy now, Missy? ;D

Ann

Yeah, but my point here is that this board has so many gay guys on it and I dare say most of them have snorted at least coke once in their life (most of them have done it many more times than one) and they should know about not sharing a rolled up dollar bill or a cut off straw from Burger King.  But yet we've got these insistent types that seem to think Hep C is going to be magically solved with condom use.

But my larger point is that seeing how hardly anybody focused on this transmission route in this thread, and seeing as how evidently everyone is so worried about getting Hep C while infected simultaneously with HIV, then we look not very much further why people are getting Hep C in addition to HIV, even if they stopped using any drugs post-HIV diagnosis the Hep C from sharing straws might not show up for eons.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 12:13:15 PM by Miss Philicia »
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Offline Ann

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #79 on: November 18, 2009, 12:14:50 PM »

But yet we've got these insistent types that seem to think Hep C is going to be magically solved with condom use.


You're right, it's not. I've recommended to friends who like to engage in the occasional bit of nasal indulgence to carry their own straw. It doesn't really necessarily help to use your own rolled up paper money, because who knows who had it up their nose before you. Given the high rate of detectable cocaine on most currency, it's best to be prudent. I also recommend to said friends that they test for hep C occasionally. It's like hiv, I think everyone should be screened, but I guess that's just me.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Ann

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #80 on: November 18, 2009, 12:16:59 PM »

But my larger point is that seeing how hardly anybody focused on this transmission route in this thread,


Well, maybe because the subject of the thread is SEX.

And would you please stop editing your posts while I'm responding to them? :D
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline next2u

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #81 on: November 18, 2009, 02:10:34 PM »
this thread is beginning to scare me. i was okay with my coinfection now i feel the need to reexamen the whole situation again.
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline elf

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #82 on: November 18, 2009, 03:28:58 PM »
For syphillis you can take Zitromax (1 pill a day for 3 days)...
But, restence to Zitromax is increasing, so make sure you
clean your body with antimalaric Doxycicline for 14 days every two months...  ;D
(if you have a very active sex life, that is)

HIV positive people are prone to fast progression of syphillis (3rd stage within  a week or two has been reported  :o),
so make sure take your antiS after date pills  ;D

As for HCV I'm scared of it.  :-\
It's one of the reasons I'm not having sex.
I don't need one more bug.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 03:32:08 PM by elf »
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Offline newt

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #83 on: November 18, 2009, 04:37:36 PM »
Quote
clean your body with antimalaric Doxycicline for 14 days every two months

Why? Doxycycline is a useful antibiotic and antimalarial and there's no reasons to take it if you don't have an infection

Quote
HIV positive people are prone to fast progression of syphilis

Perhaps. But there have been no prospective studies looking at this, just case reports of strange presentations. Is does seem likely the big S is more severe for people with HIV. But, worry, caution, yes fair enough, but not too much eh? It's not a common disease in general.

Perspective is important. Sex/intimacy is importantl. Life is risk v reward, and the rewards of intimate relationships and even sometimes a decent shag are valuable.

- matt

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Offline Ann

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #84 on: November 18, 2009, 09:17:47 PM »

this thread is beginning to scare me. i was okay with my coinfection now i feel the need to reexamen the whole situation again.


D, don't let it scare you. Just make sure you're using plenty of lube to avoid damaging the thin lining of the rectum, whether your lubing up a dick or a dildo - or a fist or a cucumber for that matter. It seems to me that it's damage during anal sex that facilitates hep C transmission more than anything else. That's why fisting has been implicated. It's not that transmission is necessarily happening during the act of fisting, but rather during regular sex after the rectum has been damaged by fisting. The lining of the rectum is quite thin - treat it with tender loving care.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #85 on: November 18, 2009, 09:27:06 PM »
D, don't let it scare you. Just make sure you're using plenty of lube to avoid damaging the thin lining of the rectum, whether your lubing up a dick or a dildo - or a fist or a cucumber for that matter. It seems to me that it's damage during anal sex that facilitates hep C transmission more than anything else. That's why fisting has been implicated. It's not that transmission is necessarily happening during the act of fisting, but rather during regular sex after the rectum has been damaged by fisting. The lining of the rectum is quite thin - treat it with tender loving care.

Ann

I don't think there's a problem with fisting with a proper latex glove.  Oh right... silly me.  I forgot how everyone here is allergic to latex (does that go for fists too?) ::rolls eyes::
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Ann

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #86 on: November 18, 2009, 09:31:09 PM »


I don't think there's a problem with fisting with a proper latex glove.  Oh right... silly me.  I forgot how everyone here is allergic to latex (does that go for fists too?) ::rolls eyes::


And latex gloves protect against rectal lining damage exactly how? Latex plus plenty of lube, yes, but not latex alone.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #87 on: November 18, 2009, 09:38:17 PM »
And latex gloves protect against rectal lining damage exactly how? Latex plus plenty of lube, yes, but not latex alone.

Ann

Yeah, I agree about lube but I'm sure you can bleed with a fist up your ass regardless (think fingernails).  You should always fist with a latex glove (as well as clip your nails and use poppers).

I used to date a Nigerian fisting top and his shoe size was 13 -- think how large that made his hands.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline max123

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #88 on: November 18, 2009, 09:52:41 PM »
I used to date a Nigerian fisting top and his shoe size was 13 -- think how large that made his hands.
...among other body parts i'm sure, miss p ;)
1/86 - 6/08 (annually): neg elisa
7/09: pos elisa/pos wb
8/09: cd4 560, cd4% 35, vl 13,050
12/09: cd4 568, cd4% 33, vl 2,690
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Offline decayingsinner

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #89 on: November 18, 2009, 10:11:41 PM »
Before my recovery i would bb with poz guys coz i was off my face most of the time,but gladly i didnt get any STDs.Now am sober,i wouldnt bb with a poz unles in a relation.

After reading this thread and bb with my man for six months now after two visits with my doctor, sure am glad I am in a committed relationship. I know myself and my partner, we only bb,  but we would never sleep with someone outside our relationship without bringing it up with the other.  Not to be blunt, but we have dumped many loads in each other and my levels have been better than ever recently.

Offline BT65

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #90 on: November 19, 2009, 06:51:27 PM »
Last time I was having "sexual relations," it was with another poz person, and we didn't use condoms.  Nothing happened HIV wise.  But of course, I did get the herps. :-\
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Online Jeff G

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #91 on: November 19, 2009, 07:10:46 PM »
 It may be a shock to some here but I hate condoms and will try anything to not wear one

I have found if my partner insist on a condom if I throw my intire body weight upon him and groan into his ear ... oh baby just let me stick it in a little bit and he will give in . It helps if I have bourbon and cigarettes on my breath . If that fails I just pinch the tip out of the condom and procede in my usual romantical way .

No shit ....when I was much younger this technique was tried on me ...the only ass he got was seeing mine walk out door . I must be freaky cuz they all like me .    
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 07:13:02 PM by jg1962 »

Offline Nestor

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #92 on: November 19, 2009, 07:24:18 PM »
Quote
If that fails I just pinch the tip out of the condom and procede in my usual romantical way .


I don't understand what you mean by "pinching the tip out of the condom."
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Online Jeff G

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #93 on: November 19, 2009, 08:05:38 PM »
I had a guy actually pinch the tip out of a condom . I know he did it because it was laying beside the bed ... if the condom had simply failed I don't think part of it would be in the floor by the bed .  

Offline madbrain

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #94 on: June 20, 2012, 10:22:33 PM »
The lady at the health dept told me the syphilis will be in my system forever. My doctor will monitor my RPR for the next 2 years to check how low it goes.

Looks like the lady at the health department was wrong.
I went to see my doc today for my latest labs. He said that there was nothing remarkable except for one thing :

My TREPONEMA PALLIDUM IGG + IGM syphilis test has gone non-reactive. This appears to mean that I no longer have syphilis.

The other syphilis test, RPR, was at 0 DILS for a while.
 
So I guess that is out of my system for good.

Now if the HIV would do the same.

Maybe I should get another HIV antibody test :)

Offline LiveWithIt

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #95 on: July 01, 2012, 03:07:29 AM »
If I was dating a guy that I really likes I would have safe sex if he wanted it, otherwise F that S.  Have there been many cases of people catching more than one strain of HIV?  If so I would think it would have sparked a new epidemic.  Most Poz guys don't use condoms. If they did they wouldn't have gotten HIV.  Plus I heard that exposing your system to other's HIV may strengthen your system.
Pray God you can cope
I know you have a little life in you yet.
I know you have a lot of strength left.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #96 on: July 01, 2012, 09:38:27 AM »
Plus I heard that exposing your system to other's HIV may strengthen your system.

Seriously girl, is that the new pick up line on manhunt these days? Should I go prop my ass up in the Bear Room at Club Body Center every day this week and attempt to measure the accuracy of this claim? I mean *hello* my HIV clinic is around the corner, it's not a stretch to have my lab work done.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline sshortguy1

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Re: do u practice safe sex with other poz partners?
« Reply #97 on: July 01, 2012, 09:55:24 AM »
not to mention hep b reinfection is  possible where i was with a friend that was reinfected 2 months after going to see the dr he was going down the path of being undetectable but the 3rd month the v/l shot back up to around 500,000 not to mention getting hep b as well , makes the job harder for the dr. as to strains as you mentioned my friend had to get a resistant test to see why the meds wasn't doing the job as the dr prescribed,  as a result he had resistants

 


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