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Author Topic: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!  (Read 14331 times)

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Offline TheFuturesEnd

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  • Posts: 11
I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« on: November 12, 2009, 12:09:19 PM »
TO ALL THE POSITIVE PEOPLE ON HERE THAT HOLD THE FOLLOWING BELIEFS:
1. It is ok to not disclose your positive HIV status to a sexual partner.
2. Oral sex doesn't transfer the HIV virus so as long as that is all were doing its ok.
3. If a possible partner doesn't ask about your HIV status before a sexual encounter, then its ok to engage in that sexual act without disclosure.
4. People that do not ask someones status get what they get. Period.
5. They didn't ask to use a condom so we didn't, even though I knew I was POZ.

So, if you agree then you are DISGUSTING DISGUSTING DISGUSTING!.

If you are POZ and have had sex, even ORAL sex, with someone without specifically saying "Hey- by the way, I have HIV," then you WILL BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY!!!!

.... but that's IF there is a god.

Well, if anyone on here agrees with any of those statements then be forewarned, as a newly positive diagnosis, it will be my life mission to have laws passed that make it VERY easy to press charges for and to convict someone of attempted murder for non-disclosure of their status. (This doesn't include people who didn't know they were HIV+ when they infected someone). Furthermore, I want the jail sentence to be at least 15 years in jail!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im sure most of you are soooo pissed off and will claim that that will only make people less likely to get tested. SORRY BUT YOU ARE WRONG. People need a really rude awakening. This is an epidemic. It ruins innocent lives. There is no reason for this to be happening anymore. 20 year old BRILLIANT college kids are having their lives destroyed because of this.

Look at it this way: More people will get tested if there are severe punishments for infecting someone with a deadly disease by not telling a sexual partner they are HIV+. It will raise awareness. It will make people proactive.

Another REMARK... TO THE PEOPLE IN THESE BLOGS THAT SAY THEY ARE SURE ORAL SEX HAS NO RISK.... YOU SHOULD BE PUT IN JAIL(and will be once my laws are passed) FOR THE REST OF UR PATHETIC LIVES FOR SPREADING FALSE INFORMATION THAT WILL EVENTUALLY LEAD TO SOMEONE CONTRACTING HIV AND DIEING.

Google "Risk of HIV transmission through oral sex" and read a scholarly (scientist written) paper on oral HIV transmission. If you don't understand what it says, then you have NO RIGHT GIVING ADVICE. If you do understand it, then you will see that oral sex is VERY risky. If you say "not as risky as everything else besides kissing," then SHUT UP. Your logic has no basis in reality. Is your view its not as risky compared to Anal Sex? If so that MAY be true BUT is NO EXCUSE to engage in the act if you know you are positive.

An example: "In a 1996-1999 study of MSM with a recent diagnosis of HIV infection, it was found that 7.8% of subjects (eight of 102) were probably infected through receptive oral sex." Link Below:
(((((((http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/epiu-aepi/epi_update_may_04/13-eng.php))))))))))

That is real TRUTH. Let me say again, I will make it a reality for a newly infected person to press charges on a HIV+ person that infected them, if they want, and if the POZ person knew they were HIV+ when they engaged in the sex act. STOP RUINING PEOPLES LIVES BECAUSE SOMEONE RUINED YOURS.

Where are peopels' morals these days? WHERE WHERE WHERE??? Please, anyone, please bring them back!

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2009, 01:13:00 PM »
Please get some counseling/therapy quickly.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Ann

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2009, 01:16:26 PM »
TFE,

The one study you cite, aside from being old and outdated, was based on notoriously unreliable patient report, not a properly conducted cohort study with controls in place.

Since that study was published, there have been three long-term studies of couples where one is positive and one is negative. In the couples who used condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, but no barrier for oral activities, not one of the negative partners became infected with hiv. Not one.

The ONLY type of oral sex that is even a theoretical risk is GIVING a blowjob. If it happens this way at all, it's rare. If you feel you were infected this way, then that's unfortunate, but don't take it out on the rest of us who are positive.

And if you think further criminalisation of hiv is not going to drive hiv even further into the closet and stop people from testing, then it is YOU who is in for a rude awakening.



So, if you agree then you are DISGUSTING DISGUSTING DISGUSTING!.

If you are POZ and have had sex, even ORAL sex, with someone without specifically saying "Hey- by the way, I have HIV," then you WILL BURN IN HELL FOR ETERNITY!!!!


And speaking of which, I hope to never see you telling people on this forum they can burn in hell again - or that they are "disgusting". That's flame-bait pure and simple and flame-bait is not permitted on these forums. Make sure you read the posting guidelines found in the Living With forum's Welcome Thread. And yes, this is an official warning. Please don't do it again - or you WILL be given a time out.

And to the rest of you who read this thread, please don't rise to the OP's flame-bait. By all means present any arguments you may have, but unlike him, do so in a respectful and calm manner. Back and forth flame-baiting or name-calling will not be tolerated in this (or any other) thread and time outs will be given if this warning is not heeded.

Thank you everyone, for your cooperation.

Ann


edited for warning clarity
« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 01:20:35 PM by Ann »
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline carousel

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2009, 01:31:21 PM »
Welcome to the forums.


Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2009, 04:13:31 PM »
So are you HIV+ or just here to throw rocks at the lepers?

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2009, 04:26:00 PM »


  I think you took a wrong turn on your interent explorer there buddy.  We don't pass no laws here and we definitely have learned how to be immune to bullshit.  If you wanna talk about what angers you then vent.. 

 
Welcome to the forums.

  Carousel beat me to it, but I am almost certain his welcome comes from the exact place mine comes from. 
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline ruralguy

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2009, 04:35:45 PM »
You might look up some current info to reduce your fear and anger.  Here are two suggestions:

Joel Gallant's website is a good one.  He is a world class expert on HIV.  The link below explains there are no documented cases where an HIV+ person on Meds has transmitted the virus to a negative person.  People not on meds do transfer the virus. See below:

http://www.hopkins-hivguide.org/q_a/patient/recent_questions/undetectable_viral_load_.html?contentInstanceId=506420&siteId=7151 

Gallant, in reponse to another question, does not even recommend PEP in the case of accidental exposure in a discordant couple when the + person is undetectable.   
 See:  http://www.hopkins-hivguide.org/q_a/patient/recent_questions/pre-ejacualation_risk_-_undetectable.html?contentInstanceId=502561&siteId=7151

There are also great tutorials on this site and on thebody.com    I feel your anger but your views are based on old knowledge and you'll appreciate how much things have changed if you seek some more currrent info.
tested positive June 19, 2009
7/3/09 vrl 9000 cd4 - 300
8/14/09 cd4 - 350, 20%
started Atripla 9/14/09
10/5/09 vrl undetectable, WOW so fast!
12/28/09 vrl undetectable, CD4 - 615  27% cholesterol down, kidney function normal
4/26/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-600, kidney and liver numbers normal
9/9/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-685
1/3/11 vrl undetectable, CD4-700
all 2011 and Jan 2012 visits vrl undetectable CD4 ranged from 715-645
5/7/2012  vrl undetectable, CD4-615, all liver, kidney, lipids, heart functions, etc normal


On Atripla:  "Your mileage may vary"

Offline leese43

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  • Posts: 257
Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2009, 04:38:22 PM »
You might do better speaking to your doctor rather than googling information that's over 10 years old.... or if you google far enough back you'll have us all in jail for sharing the same toilet seat.
Oct 04 - Neg
Aug 05 - infected
Oct 05 - cd4 780, vl 60k
Apr 08 - cd4 430, vl 243
Jul 08 - cd4 550, vl 896
Nov 08 - cd4 730, vl 1.8k
May 09 - cd4 590, vl 1.5k
Sep 09 - cd4 460 vl 34k
Dec 09 - cd4 470 vl 42k
April 10 - cd4 430 vl 88.5k
July 10 - cd4 330 vl 118k
Aug 10 - started reyataz/truvada/norvir
Aug 10 - cd4 380 vl 4k (12 days after starting meds :))
Sep 10 - cd4 520 vl 1.5k
Oct 10 - cd4 590 vl 44
Jan 11 -cd4 610 vl <40 cd4% 50
May 11 - cd4 780 vl UD

Offline Forevergreen

  • Member
  • Posts: 14
Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2009, 05:48:14 PM »
i know how you feel. i felt the same way you did when i found out i was poz, but the fact is that we all have to accept responsibility for our own actions. if you participated in unprotected sex (oral or anal), then you have to accept responsibility for that. i'm not saying that it's ok for people to not disclose their status, but it's YOUR responsibility to protect yourself. blaming someone isn't going to change the fact that you are now positive. instead, use all that valuable energy towards encouraging other poz people to feel secure enough to have the courage to disclose their status or volunteer in aids education to make people more aware of what can happen to them. use your personal experience to empower yourself. scaring people with prison sentences isn't going to change people's behavior or undo what happened to you. in fact, it's more likely that it will discourage even more people from disclosing their status or getting tested because they fear ridicule.

things will get easier....i promise. :)


Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2009, 08:22:14 PM »

So are you HIV+ or just here to throw rocks at the lepers?


He claims to be poz:


...as a newly positive diagnosis, it will be my life mission...


You know, newly diagnosed and still full of all that anger and still blaming everyone but himself for his own infection. Hopefully he'll calm down in time so he can help himself stay healthy.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline max123

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  • Carpe Diem
Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2009, 08:29:03 PM »
hi future.

sorry to hear about what you are experiencing.

has your hiv been confirmed by a western blot?

max

1/86 - 6/08 (annually): neg elisa
7/09: pos elisa/pos wb
8/09: cd4 560, cd4% 35, vl 13,050
12/09: cd4 568, cd4% 33, vl 2,690
4/10: cd4 557, cd4% 29.3, vl 6,440
7/10: cd4 562, cd4% 29.6, vl 3,780

Offline pos2007

  • Member
  • Posts: 116
Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2009, 09:12:57 PM »
  You need to  learn  that  no-one ever asks  to  be  infected.  Not  the person  that  infected  you  and   obviously  not  yourself. 30% of  the  people  that  are infected   don't  even  know  it. Sometimes Shit  just  happens.  Some  people  get  hit  by  lightning,  some   people  hit  by  a train,  some people  get  HIV. Life  is  just a gamble and  the  roulete wheel starts  spinning  the day you crawl  out  of  the  womb. :o  More  importantly,  it  takes  2  to  tango.  Universal safe sex  education and  learning  to  forgive  will do  you  and  the world a whole  lot  of  good.  :) Please post again when  you  need guidance  to  help  you  with the  issues of dealing  with  HIV.  We are all in the   same  boat and are glad  to  help  when  we  can.
Diagnosed  CD4 138 VL. 38,000
Partner Diagnosed CD4 <20  VL.  488,000

Offline Rev. Moon

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  • Smart ass faggot ©
Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2009, 10:35:47 PM »
Good grief.  Have come here for support or to play victim, judge, and jury?

At any rate... welcome aboard.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline tokyodecadence

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  • A one room disco.
Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2009, 10:56:52 PM »
Wow. I can certainly say that when I found out that I was positive, my first instincts were definitely not to go around telling other positive people that they are going to burn in hell, nor that I was going to waste my time "passing laws that make it VERY easy to press charges on someone who's positive", or telling people that they were "disgusting disgusting disgusting".

Why? Well, I suppose that I decided to take the grown-up approach for my actions. I was in a monogamous relationship for over a year, with one of the 30% of people who was positive and didn't know it. That really doesn't matter, because there could have still been measures taken to protect myself, on MY part. The way that you're going on makes it seem like you had some one night stand that went south. I think that the only person you're angry at is yourself. What if the person who infected you didn't know that they were positive? I suppose this rigmarole of judgment and slander would be irrelevant then, right? It's easy to spew general hate when you have no one to blame. WE didn't make you positive.

I'm sorry that you're taking this so negatively. But I also agree with a previous comment, you need therapy. LOTS of it. And no necessarily because of this post, but if this is how you're behaving now, without speaking to someone about it, where do you think you'll end up in a year? In five?
[.Fodão.]

Offline max123

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2009, 06:23:29 AM »
great points, tokyo.
1/86 - 6/08 (annually): neg elisa
7/09: pos elisa/pos wb
8/09: cd4 560, cd4% 35, vl 13,050
12/09: cd4 568, cd4% 33, vl 2,690
4/10: cd4 557, cd4% 29.3, vl 6,440
7/10: cd4 562, cd4% 29.6, vl 3,780

Offline Dachshund

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2009, 09:19:59 AM »
In your initial post on this subject you claim to have slept with four women after you knew you were infected.

That leads me to Problem #5. I am heterosexual... and have slept with 4 girls since I believe I had AHI.

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=29580.0

Offline Ann

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2009, 09:30:18 AM »
In your initial post on this subject you claim to have slept with four women after you knew you were infected.

That leads me to Problem #5. I am heterosexual... and have slept with 4 girls since I believe I had AHI.

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=29580.0

No, actually, he claims he didn't know. You have to read problems 4 and 6 to see what I mean.


Problem #4 is that I had to be hospitalized last summer because  of an unknown viral infection. After obsessing over all of this bullshit for the last 4 days I would say that I was hospitalized for AHI (Accute HIV Infection). If you aren't familiar with the term its because even most doctors are not. I am so disgusted. After reading the material on that and comparing my CBC to that of others that had AHI I can say with 95% certainty that that is what I had. The doctors missed it completely missed it- they knew I had a viral infection but DID NOT CARE to do more tests and figure out what was really wrong. I have contacted a lawyer and will be pursuing malpractice on the grounds of misdiagnosis that has decreased my outlook for survival and quality of life and the fact that I have exposed others to HIV.

That leads me to Problem #5. I am heterosexual... and have slept with 4 girls since I believe I had AHI. I feel that I cannot tell them because they would ruin my life socially and legally. I didn't expose them intentionally but I do not think that would stop them. 2 of them hate me and would tell everyone I know and I just can't be the kid on campus with HIV.

Also, the immense guilt that I am feeling because I unknowingly exposed them to HIV is making me sooooo sick inside that it is overtaking me. I feel like I am going to end up like the character in the movie with Christian Bale called 'THE MACHINIST." That problem number #6.


Of course, he doesn't seem to realise that this is how many new infection occur. It would seem he would rather assume that most new infections are a result of people deliberately lying about or hiding their poz status (after all, pozzies are all nasty, villainous people) - hence his demands for criminalisation. He doesn't see how this is so very counterproductive, as more people will be willing to remain ignorant as to their hiv status so they don't run the risk of being thrown in jail.

When it comes to one's hiv status, ignorance is NOT bliss.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2009, 09:38:01 AM »
TFE,

I was thinking about this yesterday when I posted, but didn't say anything. Now that Doxie has brought your original thread up, I'll say it.

Have you told those four women yet? Because if you haven't, then the tirade you went on in this thread seems pretty hypocritical. I sure hope you've let them know they need to test. If you haven't, how does that make you any better than a positive person who doesn't disclose before sex, despite using condoms? If you haven't told them, what you're doing (or more to the point, NOT doing...) is far worse.

Mind you, I don't really expect you to come back with any replies. You didn't bother to acknowledge any of the replies you got in your other thread, despite five people taking the time - and caring enough - to try to help you.

Ann

Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline max123

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2009, 09:27:33 PM »
excellent post ann... i myself share the very same concerns and sentiments.

this fella's m.o. seems to be that ANYBODY who exposes/transmits hiv to someone should be criminally liable. however, given his own claim of having exposed at least 4 girls, the op stated:

problem #5 (in his original post):
I feel that I cannot tell them because they would ruin my life socially and legally. I didn't expose them intentionally but I do not think that would stop them. 2 of them hate me and would tell everyone

sharply contrasting his venemous second post. can this get anymore convoluted?

additionally and unless i've missed something, we still don't know if his was even a confirmed diagnosis.

max
1/86 - 6/08 (annually): neg elisa
7/09: pos elisa/pos wb
8/09: cd4 560, cd4% 35, vl 13,050
12/09: cd4 568, cd4% 33, vl 2,690
4/10: cd4 557, cd4% 29.3, vl 6,440
7/10: cd4 562, cd4% 29.6, vl 3,780

Offline emeraldize

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2009, 10:31:45 PM »
"I feel that I cannot tell them because they would ruin my life socially and legally. I didn't expose them intentionally but I do not think that would stop them. 2 of them hate me and would tell everyone "

If you feel you cannot tell them, for whatever reason, then at least enlist the health department nearest you so they can contact these women as soon as possible.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2009, 01:37:35 AM »
I'm going to over-look your vicious and child-like post.  I think you probably aren't in your right mind after learning such devastating news.  I hope you're not always like this.  I didn't know I was poz until last december.  I've had to had it for 8 yrs, because that is the last time I had a possible exposure.  I let some guy poke his dick around my ass and it went in a little.  I guess that is how I got it. 

We all have to take responsibility for our actions.  I guess you're dealing with it by going after others.  I've been dealing with it with depression and anxiety.  You cannot get HIV from someone giving you oral sex.  And, the CDC's website even says giving oral sex is virtually an impossible way of transmission--unless you have mouth sores or gum issues.  But, you are right that HIVers should disclose their status when their is penetration of any kind.  I can tell you my partner is negative.  Over the last 8 yrs, we've probably had sex hundreds of times.  He's always top and performed oral sex on me.  He didn't catch it.  Obviously, we take more precautions now. 

You need to tell your sexual partners to get tested.  If you don't want to do this using your name, send them an announomous letter or e-mail.  They need to know.  YOU ARE THE MOST INFECTIOUS RIGHT AFTER INFECTION!!!  MOST VIRAL LOADS AFTER INFECTION CAN BE IN THE MILLIONS. 

I joined this site to learn all I can about HIV, so I can move on with my life and live.  I didn't join it to be talked to in such an evil manner.  I don't think anyone on this site would be the kind of person who would purposely not tell someone their status.  Those kind of people probably wouldn't be interested in a site like this.  They are probably living in denial and just ignoring their virus. 

There are already laws on the books about not disclosing HIV status.  These laws get tricky.  I had a poz friend tell me he and a guy were just jacking off together.  The other guy, all of a sudden, jumped up and jumped on his dick.  He must have been loose for it to go in so easily.  Should my friend be put in prison?  All he planned to do was just jack off together.  He was actually so upset by what the guy did.  He never thought that could happen. 

Anyway, I hope you stop blaming others.  If you had unprotected sex, then it is on you.  I sometimes go to gay hook-up web-sites to look at pix.  I am so disappointed at the number of guys who want to bareback.  Then there are the ones who say "You be HIV neg".  They are really going to believe some stranger??  So stupid!  Plus, the person probably wouldn't know they had HIV.  And, if someone isn't concerned about your HIV status (even after you tell them) then they are probably poz.  I mean those who still want to have bareback sex even after you tell them.   

Offline haoleboyterry

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2009, 07:45:04 AM »
Hello.First I would like to say that I completely agree with what you have said. I am hiv+ and found out about my status in the spring of2006. This devastated me when I found out,I like mostother infected people felt that my life was over with,a death sentance if you will.I was going through some rough times drinking alot to forget the pain of how my ex treated me,so I was the mle equivalent of a female whore,things woul have been bad enough if I was sexually active in 1 state but I was active in 3 states and will never know who infected me,for some strange reason it would make me feel somwhat better knowing that whoever she was than infected me did so withot knowing about her status instead of doing so maliousally would make me feel better.I made a promise to yself and god that this disease will die with me,I am extremely creful not to infect others.Not all of us with a hiv+ status are bad people,some of us are caring ,god fearing  and upstanding members of our communiies.Since me findig out about my status have gone and enrolled as a full time student at the University of Hawaii,studying for my associates in computer science.I was bitter at first when i found out i had hiv but after awhile of rational thinking it finally sank in that I will never know who gave it to me and hiv made my life screwed up enough and that I was'nt going to just rollover and die.I have a consious and  heart so please do not make everyone with a positive status out o be some type of ogreI have famiy like you, children and a educatinal goal to obtain Ihave since moved out of being bitter and now I do everything that I possibly can do to educate others wht it is like dealing withIV. Istudy all credible sources of information that I can find regarding hiv/aids and rymy best to pass this information on to others so that there wll be that much less ignorance in this world when it comes to pandemics of this type.I believe that  I am almost comfortable enough to join the local hiv clinic that goes to local schools teaching our youth fact from fiction when it comes to something as serious as hiv.So to clarify one thing though I feel just as strongly as you do about punnishing those who have no regard for everyones health and lives,they should be held accountable for their actions and there is aspecial place i hell for those that do'nt give a damn.Thank you for listening while I vented some,I merely wanted to point out that there is alot of good people that do have respect for other peoples lives instead of rekless abandonment.I thank you for your time and hope your goals of punishing those who do pass it on with no remorse whatsoever hey should be held accountable to the fullest eten of the law.

                                             Mahalo Nui Loa
                                                 Terry.

Offline mecch

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2009, 08:12:08 AM »
Its normal to be angry.
If you are the brilliant young college student referred to you in your rant, you'd realize that it is a rant and you've got to get a hold of yourself.  Listen here - it's sh*tty that you got it but manageable for the future and actually you don't have much choice but to continue on your normal plans.
So try to carve some energy out of that anger to go back to being a college student and make that a big success because frankly a mind and youth is a terrible thing to waste, as you say.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Dachshund

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2009, 08:22:21 AM »
so I was the mle equivalent of a female whore,things woul have been bad enough if I was sexually active in 1 state but I was active in 3 states and will never know who infected me.

Or who you infected while you were "whoring" around. It's just mind-boggling the rationale.

Offline RobertFL

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2009, 03:45:02 PM »
Just an advice... grow up boy! You are part of a generation who grew knowing more than others about STD's.

Have a good day!

Robert

Offline TheRoof

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2009, 06:44:21 PM »
Hey. A few weeks ago I kissed a guy on the mouth. We just did one kiss. Though I didn't disclose my HIV status. Does that mean I am going to go to jail?





































::sarcasm:: but really if there was a law (which would never pass IMO). Would you have to disclose before kissing too? In your opinion.

Offline anniebc

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2009, 09:48:07 PM »
Sadly I think Ann is right and this guy is not coming back..he seems to be here to cause, or is trying to cause a flame war, personally I think most of us have been here long enough to know how it works..I think it's best we ignore this thread, or until he comes back with some other ridiculous post~~sigh~~

Hugs
Jan
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline beau1200

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2009, 02:29:48 AM »
WOW!  that much anger can't be good for your health.  Seriously, you should take care of yourself physically and mentally. 

Offline TheFuturesEnd

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2009, 10:18:36 AM »
ok apparently i am a mean bitter child.

I always use condoms... But they are known to break.

I always as ask if the person im sleeping with has been tested for anything... Always got the answer of "yes and I am clean." (someone lied)

its crazy cause I have been proactive in my sexual health since 16... NEVER HAD ONE STD EVER!!!

I wouldn't knowingly risk someones health. (The girls I slept with after I MAY have been infected have NOT been told... but I DID NOT KNOW at the time) (used condoms with all so probably didnt infect them if I had it at the time.)

I have anger problems... (humm... last thing i can possibly deal with)

used to enjoy life... (nothing has a point anymore)

Don't like to offend people... But shit happens right?

Starting to be inclined to think this is a whole gov. conspiracy to kill people.

In conclusion... I am scared and lashed out a little. (who would really do what I said I was gna do?)

Truth... I have thought about suicide every day for 2 months... maybe more? Cant keep track of time very well these days.... Have missed 4 appointments in a row for this HIV thing. I think its cause I got super offended by all the medical people insinuating I must be gay if I have HIV... If i am shocked and disgusted by anything in life its that THAT type of thinking exists... ESPECIALLY in MED professionals. (dont take this as i hate gay people. dont have anything against them. i believe in 100% equal rights for all including marriage)

Sucks because I feel like everyone looks at me different but knwone knows so why would they?

I sit in my room ready to go where I am supposed to... but find excuses to procrastinate and miss all things Im supposed to do...

SO. guess im here for help. so i guess i should say "i really need it before i go play in traffic."
« Last Edit: November 16, 2009, 10:21:45 AM by TheFuturesEnd »

Offline TheRoof

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2009, 10:44:52 AM »
/\
/\

How did you get HIV? From another man? or a woman. It's not very clear if you stated that or not. Did you get it from another woman?

When I was diagnosed last year, my doctor gave me semi-good advice. I explained to her my whole story. She said "Since I'm so young, there will be a cure in my lifetime most likely in the next 25 years" She was probably saying that to make me feel better of course. As no one knows, though doctors usually can't really say that in the first place.

To this time I still think about that. I understand she used my Youth As A Factor of Prediction of what will happen in the next 25 years. If I was 35 I doubt she would have said that.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2009, 10:50:05 AM by TheRoof »

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2009, 10:53:46 AM »

I always as ask if the person im sleeping with has been tested for anything... Always got the answer of "yes and I am clean." (someone lied)

...

I wouldn't knowingly risk someones health. (The girls I slept with after I MAY have been infected have NOT been told... but I DID NOT KNOW at the time)

I hope you realize the inconsistency of those two statements, and how it's not very fair to apply one standard to yourself and now allow that same possibility to others.  Perhaps if you did this you'd not be your current "angry" and "bitter" self, and you could move on with your life and your medical treatment.

Are you seeing a therapist about any of this and/or going to a real life support group?  If not, why not?
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline max123

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2009, 03:30:20 PM »
hi future.

glad 2 see you're back.

setting the record straight:

1) has your hiv been confirmed by a western blot? if not, your 'tentative' diagnosis may represent a false positive. if you have been blot confirmed, yeah, it sucks, but missing 4 appointments isn't helping you. the reality is that you have to want to take an active role in your health...it's not going to happen osmotically or by sitting there feeling sorry for yourself.

2) have you contacted your school's academic counselor about retro dropping the semester?

3) have you gotten any psychological counseling to help you deal with this?

4) have you notified the dept of health in your area and initiated anonymous notification to your past partners?

that said, yes condoms do on occasion break...but unless they are old & dried out (they do have expiration dates) serial breakage is unlikely to have happened. unfortunately and circumstance dependent, it can potentially only take that one time.

lastly, contemplating suicide is a needless act...all you need to do to help yourself, if it's help that you truly want, is pick up the phone...so do it. call your local health department or aso and get an emergency appointment with a case manager. they will lead the way for you. good luck.

max
1/86 - 6/08 (annually): neg elisa
7/09: pos elisa/pos wb
8/09: cd4 560, cd4% 35, vl 13,050
12/09: cd4 568, cd4% 33, vl 2,690
4/10: cd4 557, cd4% 29.3, vl 6,440
7/10: cd4 562, cd4% 29.6, vl 3,780

Offline ThomasHopper

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2009, 11:15:12 PM »
While I don't agree with the angry tone of the original poster, one thing he/she is saying is definitely true:  HIV can be passed by oral sex and unfortunately I'm living proof of it.  I've never had anal sex, ever.  Never used drugs or needles, never even have given oral sex.  The only sexual activity I've done is receive oral and I found out in late September that I'm positive.  Obviously I was shocked and surprised.

My doc, who is an HIV expert in our area, explained in detail how the virus can be transferred from simple, "safe" oral sex.  All it takes is a tiny micro bit of blood and a microscopic break in the mucous membrane of the head of the penis for the virus to transmit.  Alot of documentation says HIV is very difficuilt to transmit, but in reality it's very easy to transmit in oral sex even if there is an unoticeable break or tear.  And according to the doc, it's especially easy to transmit if there is alot of up and down motion inside the giver's mouth.

Just some food for thought.  I wouldn't have in a million years thought I could be positive based on my limited sexual history of "low risk" messing around, but here I am.  I hope anyone who is positive thinks about this before not disclosing your status to someone because it's "only" oral sex. 

Offline sharkdiver

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2009, 12:22:57 AM »
oh dear

Offline Joe K

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2009, 01:56:18 PM »
Hello Future,

I am so sorry to hear that you are having such a hard time right now and I understand how it can seem, that your world is crashing down on you, because, in a way, it is. Becoming poz forces you to rearrange your life, but you will survive this and hopefully I can help. Let me start by saying that you need some help, to start adjusting to being poz and that there is no shame in seeking help, when we are overwhelmed. I know how you feel, I once posted a blog piece describing my depression, which lead me to put a loaded gun into my mouth and contemplate, pulling the trigger and just be done with it all.

You mention playing in traffic, but what I see is an honest attempt to address your issues. I do not believe you can do this, without some professional guidance. As hard as it is, you must overcome your aversion to doctors and grow a tougher skin, so that you don't care what they think about you, as long as they treat your disease. I agree that it is unfair for anyone to assume anything about you, but I ask that you consider: why do you care what others think? This is all tied into the feelings you are experiencing, which I assume you find very troubling and are somewhat uncertain at what you can do, to help yourself.

The place to start is getting the proper medical care. Quick making excuses for not going to the doctor and understand, that if left untreated, HIV WILL KILL YOU. If you plan to die tomorrow, then fine, but then you would not be here, reading these words. Yes your life has changed and not for the good, however, only you can decide on how you will address your issues. I encourage you to channel your anger in figting your HIV, while working on those issues that are most important to you. This is one time in your life when you need to be selfish and you must find whatever support you need, from wherever you can.

The reason I share all of this, is so you understand, that there are many of us here, who share your same issues. I have suffered from depression for 40 years and I somewhat control it, through therapy and medication. I'm not saying you have depression, but you do have some mental issues, that you need to discuss with a psychiatrist. It is time for you to decide on whether you are going to learn how to adapt, or let some stinking virus dictate how you live. I know you can do this, with the right help, because I have been doing it for 25 years.

It's your life and I encourage you to reclaim that life and I promise, if you work at adjusting, there will come a day, when being poz will just be another facet of your life. You can do this and if there is anything I can do to help, please ask.

One last thought. I am disappointed by the number of posts, that attacked the OP, regardless of the negative nature of the initial post. This person came here for help, not to have their words picked apart, but even worse, was how most posts, offered no empathy or understanding. This saddens me greatly.

Offline TheFuturesEnd

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2009, 05:00:31 PM »
Hey. A few weeks ago I kissed a guy on the mouth. We just did one kiss. Though I didn't disclose my HIV status. Does that mean I am going to go to jail?

:sarcasm:: but really if there was a law (which would never pass IMO). Would you have to disclose before kissing too? In your opinion.


ANSWER: if it was a kiss on the cheek... then no! but if it was what is termed ' deep kissing' which, though statistically low, still does have a chance of passing hiv to someone. if you are passing body fluids then you need to tell the person. and the title of it was 'im so pissed off.' its obvious a law like that would never pass and I would have to make friends with social-conservatives...(shivers down my spine).

 so it was more of a "split personality" rant... kinda like your sarcasm. I guess I will point out my non-serious yet still angry rant next time i post... like you so graciously pointed out the use of sarcasm in your reply to my posting. (and yes, that was sarcasm)<-- and so is what is in the brackets ;)

Even though its an extremely low statistic chance, how would you feel if you got HIV from an innocent kiss. If the person likes you then they will take that minuscule risk if you tell them. My problem is I will probably be celibate forever since I don't think I will ever find a sero-neg person I like/trust enough to tell... maybe im afraid of their willing levels to risk their whole life for me. But then, life may surprise me.

Have a good day,
T.f's.E.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2009, 06:14:33 PM by TheFuturesEnd »

Offline TheFuturesEnd

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2009, 05:51:55 PM »
TFE,

The one study you cite, aside from being old and outdated, was based on notoriously unreliable patient report, not a properly conducted cohort study with controls in place.

Since that study was published, there have been three long-term studies of couples where one is positive and one is negative. In the couples who used condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, but no barrier for oral activities, not one of the negative partners became infected with hiv. Not one.

The ONLY type of oral sex that is even a theoretical risk is GIVING a blowjob. If it happens this way at all, it's rare. If you feel you were infected this way, then that's unfortunate, but don't take it out on the rest of us who are positive.

And if you think further criminalisation of hiv is not going to drive hiv even further into the closet and stop people from testing, then it is YOU who is in for a rude awakening.


And speaking of which, I hope to never see you telling people on this forum they can burn in hell again - or that they are "disgusting". That's flame-bait pure and simple and flame-bait is not permitted on these forums. Make sure you read the posting guidelines found in the Living With forum's Welcome Thread. And yes, this is an official warning. Please don't do it again - or you WILL be given a time out.

And to the rest of you who read this thread, please don't rise to the OP's flame-bait. By all means present any arguments you may have, but unlike him, do so in a respectful and calm manner. Back and forth flame-baiting or name-calling will not be tolerated in this (or any other) thread and time outs will be given if this warning is not heeded.

Thank you everyone, for your cooperation.

Ann


edited for warning clarity

Hi Mod, Ann,

I am sorry that you feel personally attacked by my posting. I was simply sharing a TRUE fact, that getting oral sex (mouth on penis) is a risk and my personal moral belief that if a POZ person thinks that giving someone oral sex without telling the person they are POZ is moral, then they are wrong.

I do believe that I got HIV from receiving oral sex. For you to claim that this is statistically impossible and or on the basis of faulty information, then I think I will report you to the site owner. You cannot, in good conscious, spread false information that "The ONLY type of oral sex that is even a theoretical risk is GIVING a blowjob. If it happens this way at all, it's rare." You use of 'if' it happens would lead someone that has little or no information on HIV to believe oral sex is without risk.

My anger was not directed at anyone on here, but rather the person (who I think knew they were POZ when giving me oral sex) I believe infected me. I am posting on here and standing up for my belief that risking exposure to a person that doesn't know you are POZ is immoral.

I did look at the forum rules and don't know what rule you are referring to. The only one I think it may be is:
     "Offences that may result in a warning and/or TO include abusive language, personal attacks, threats, and   
     starting threads or posting comments that are designed to provoke an angry response - a practice known   
     as flame-baiting"

You say that is flame baiting. I do not agree. That was not a fact-less opinion. It was a scientifically grounded morality check. I think that anyone else that has been infected through sex with a POZ person, who did not let them know they were POZ, would feel the same exact way. I feel like someone has murdered me intentionally due to the fact that people promote the notion that oral sex is not a transmission risk. ITS NOT TRUE!

Please clear this up for me. I did not direct that at anyone. If anyone would take offense to it, it would be someone that intentionally exposed someone to HIV without informing them that they were POZ. I do not see how that is wrong. It is wrong for the person to do that.

I will apologize for saying "burn in hell." I will also implying that that idea is 'disgusting' to many people including myself. I am an agnostic so I do not subscribe to the notion of hell... It was a poor choice of words on my part, picked in the heat of the moment. Disgusting was a harsh judgment to pass, but only meant as a reflection on my own situation.

Below are 3 links to VERY credible organizations that support my claim of oral sex being a danger for transmission, and a rebuttal to your position. I am game to have an adult conversation and free exchange of ideas... I tried to pick the most current articles available for you.

1. http://www.thebody.com/content/prev/art17166.html----> that is via body.com and originally the CDC.
2. http://www.aidsmap.com/cms1044877.asp ----> that is from aidsmap.com
3. http://www.aidsmap.com/en/news/8C50587D-7487-4440-BCFD-3AF7C9EE92C3.asp -----> another body.com article from a British study

So, oral sex HIV transmission accounts for 3% of all infections. It increases when the receiving partner is uncircumcised, which I am. I fell into a very small and unlucky 3% risk group. But the risk was there!

Also, I feel that your comment "it's rare. If you feel you were infected this way, then that's unfortunate, but don't take it out on the rest of us who are positive," was a personal attack on me. Unfortunate. Thanks I knew that. Also, the way you say IF YOU FEEL, as if its an absurd notion on my part. I know my sexual behavior and am 99% sure that was my mode of transmission.

The CDC says: "The latest estimates indicate that at the end of 2003, HIV prevalence— the total number of persons with HIV—was roughly 1 million (estimated range between 1,039,000–1,185,000)." This means that of 1 million people, 30,000 people were infected by oral sex. I feel obligated to point out that that number is neither rare, not unfortunate. I do not think the other 29,999 people infected through oral sex feel that way either.

I should state that my view on the HIV epidemic is that we, as a society, are not doing enough to stop transmission of this virus. If like you say, criminalizing HIV will make it worse, than lets at least make an effort to stress to everyone out there that "any type of sexual behavior is unsafe if you or your partner do not know your HIV status, even sex with a condom is a risk if that condom breaks." I do not honestly believe that criminalizing people will help, but spreading inaccurate information is dangerous. (And no I did not say criminal)

I am a casualty of being too comfortable with getting a 'blowjob,' not in a million years would I have though this would happen to me. But it did, and now I feel it is my duty to make sure no more young college aged kids like me get too comfortable with casual sex and get infected by such an innocent act.

I write this in hopes of clarifying my opinions in a respectful and intelligent manner; and with the hope my account doesn't get 'timed out' for expressing a valid concern and scientific fact.

Thanks, T.f's.E.

Offline TheFuturesEnd

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2009, 06:07:49 PM »
/\
/\

How did you get HIV? From another man? or a woman. It's not very clear if you stated that or not. Did you get it from another woman?

When I was diagnosed last year, my doctor gave me semi-good advice. I explained to her my whole story. She said "Since I'm so young, there will be a cure in my lifetime most likely in the next 25 years" She was probably saying that to make me feel better of course. As no one knows, though doctors usually can't really say that in the first place.

To this time I still think about that. I understand she used my Youth As A Factor of Prediction of what will happen in the next 25 years. If I was 35 I doubt she would have said that.

I received my HIV from a woman (I am a guy). I know there will be a sure in my lifetime from a lot of research I have been looking at... There have been an enormous amount of breakthroughs in understanding how the HIV virus actually works and what it actually does. With this new information, a cure is inevitable.

The doctor that I have was very skeptical of any information from research that I had asked her about (including the man in Germany that was recently cured of HIV because of a bone marrow transplant he received for leukemia which was from a person with the known mutation that protects your white blood cells from HIV). I understand that they feel if they give people hope they could get sued...

[link to German guy topic: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1858843,00.html]
Interesting article because the DR. at the mayo clinic does not even want to hint at a little hope in that story. Who knows, with cloning and stem cell research, replicating bone marrow in mass with this mutation could be a possible avenue for cure, but will it ever get funding for investigation? Doubt it... sadly :(

I think its almost a problem in the US where doctors are so beholden  to insurance companies and the pharma. industry that they are being prevented from innovation, which is why America because so great in the first place...

Another kinda unrelated thing... The counselor, who specializes in patients with HIV, leveled to me that the only information she has on HIV is from the pharma companies(after I asked her too many questions she didn't understand apparently). I am NOT a denialist but I think I am pointing out that in my experience, the healthcare people that are in 'this' don't seem to understand it was well as they should.

Thanks for reminding me to keep my perspective on the brighter side of things!

Offline TheFuturesEnd

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2009, 06:45:10 PM »
No, actually, he claims he didn't know. You have to read problems 4 and 6 to see what I mean.

Of course, he doesn't seem to realise that this is how many new infection occur. It would seem he would rather assume that most new infections are a result of people deliberately lying about or hiding their poz status (after all, pozzies are all nasty, villainous people) - hence his demands for criminalisation. He doesn't see how this is so very counterproductive, as more people will be willing to remain ignorant as to their hiv status so they don't run the risk of being thrown in jail.

When it comes to one's hiv status, ignorance is NOT bliss.

Ann

Hello again Mod, Ann,

Sorry it took me so long to reply... your comments felt a little bit like a personal attack on me.

1. You said "No, actually, he claims he didn't know."
         -Are you implying that I did know and intentionally exposed those 4 girls to HIV? I am a good person. To me, doing something like that is equatable to that old saying "chinese execution by 1000 cuts" or something like that. The point is I would never kill ANYONE. I do not believe in the death penalty. I feel that if I am even tangibly responsible for a death, I am still responsible. So back to the saying,(my opinion) to intentionally give someone HIV through non-disclosure of status, is like killing someone but in the most slow and painful way possible. I would never be able to live knowing I did it on purpose. That was a really low blow. Took me a while to work some courage up to reply.

2. Next you say "Of course, he doesn't seem to realise that this is how many new infection occur. It would seem he would rather assume that most new infections are a result of people deliberately lying about or hiding their poz status (after all, pozzies are all nasty, villainous people) - hence his demands for criminalisation."
      -Wow, what is going on? None of the girls I slept with were nasty and at the risk of some bragging (lol) I am definitely not nasty haha. I don't think that at all. I never said I think all 'pozzies' are villainous. That line of thinking, on my part, came from reading posts in the threads, during one of my many sleepless nights, and seeing a reoccurring implication in SOME posts: that it is ok to practice "safe" sex without disclosure; i.e. oral sex. You even claimed that this was a very safe mode of sexual contact and statistically insignificant. From my reply to your earlier post, and the links I shared with you, you should now be fully aware of the fact that 3% of HIV infections are through 'oral sex to a penis."
         -And yes, thanks, I do realize that a decent percent of new infection are from people who didn't know they were infected. This isn't because people think they might have it or are afraid to get it, but probably due to the fact that people are in the mind set that HIV is in the distant past.

-I think the mods on here should not facilitate potentially deadly false/misleading information like that. It could be more dangerous that an AIDS Denialist. Though, there are no research articles on that subject. (New research topic for my statistics class maybe???).

3. Finally you stated that "He doesn't see how this is so very counterproductive, as more people will be willing to remain ignorant as to their hiv status so they don't run the risk of being thrown in jail."
            -How is that counter productive? Your line of reasoning implies that people would not get tested, so 
                  they may continue to have sex, and never know if they are healthy.
            -I do not buy that for a second. REMEMBER, I said that if someone INTENTIONALLY  exposes               
                  someone... that they should go to jail--- You are basically saying that if the person does know
                  they are POZ they would still go around exposing people without consent. There would be no risk of
                  being thrown in jail unless you exposed someone to the virus (after knowing you had HIV) and NOT
                  DISCLOSING that fact.
            -The only people that would have to worry are people that go around being extremely dangerous to the 
                  health of other people.
            -Maybe are are, generation wise, too far apart to see eye to eye on this matter. At the rate college kids 
                   have sex these days, if they heard that there was a law about that, they would all run to get     
                   tested. I think its obvious that people love sex, so to ensure they can have more sex, they will go 
                   get tested. The reason people people my age don't get tested is because they this the HIV thing is
                   over and done with. Or, like me, thought that they were not engageing in risky behavior and were 
                    taking precautions.
            -The Main Point here for me is that the only precaution you can take when it comes to protecting 
                   yourself against HIV is demanding, of yourself and sex partners, proof of status before engaging in 
                   sex.

Thank, T.f's.E.

Offline TheFuturesEnd

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2009, 07:12:21 PM »
TFE,

I was thinking about this yesterday when I posted, but didn't say anything. Now that Doxie has brought your original thread up, I'll say it.

Have you told those four women yet? Because if you haven't, then the tirade you went on in this thread seems pretty hypocritical. I sure hope you've let them know they need to test. If you haven't, how does that make you any better than a positive person who doesn't disclose before sex, despite using condoms? If you haven't told them, what you're doing (or more to the point, NOT doing...) is far worse.

Mind you, I don't really expect you to come back with any replies. You didn't bother to acknowledge any of the replies you got in your other thread, despite five people taking the time - and caring enough - to try to help you.

Ann




Hello yet again MOD, ANN,

Every time I read your posts I keep getting the feeling that you are personally attacking me! Why? Did I touch too close to home for you? Did you infect someone intentionally?

YOU say "Have you told those four women yet? Because if you haven't, then the tirade you went on in this thread seems pretty hypocritical. I sure hope you've let them know they need to test. If you haven't, how does that make you any better than a positive person who doesn't disclose before sex, despite using condoms? If you haven't told them, what you're doing (or more to the point, NOT doing...) is far worse."
           -These are some broad conclusion to draw based on the little info provided. The first thing a new POZ person I going to do it tell the people he has slept with, because he is going through a lot in his mind. I doubt the last thing you read or even cared to discuss is the reply to this thread in which I said I think about suicide. Thanks for the vote for life LOLOL. Anyways, I have used that annonymous Health Department Notification system after much hesitation.
           -I think you have been on these forums a while. Are you usually so rude to a 22 year old who just had his whole life turned upside down and stomped on a few times? I wouldn't be surprised. Thanks for the moral check, But it turns out that it was not needed after all.
           -I will be writing POZ an official letter to complain about your position as a Moderator because you keep putting these misleading notions out there that probably lead to new infections.

---You say "how does that make you any better than a positive person who doesn't disclose before sex, despite using condoms? If you haven't told them, what you're doing (or more to the point, NOT doing...) is far worse."
             -----IS THAT MEANT TO BE A FUNNY JOKE? ITS DEFINITELY NOT. HOW IS THAT WORSE. I NEVER KNEW I HAD IT. YES I WAITED A MONTH, BUT THE DAMAGE HAD BEEN DONE MONTHS AND MONTHS AGO.

-----HOW DARE PERSONALLY ATTACK ME IN SUCH A FASHION. WHAT YOU ARE DOING NOW IS FLAME BAITING!

------YOU HAVE THE AUDACITY TO INSINUATE THAT A POZ PERSON HAVING SEX (WITH A CONDOM) AND NO DISCLOSURE IS BETTER THAN ME CONTEMPLATING TELLING GIRLS (THAT I REALLY LIKED) THAT I MAY HAVE SENTENCED THEM TO DEATH???? IT TAKES A WHILE TO PUT THAT INTO A NICE LITTLE SENTENCE. JUDGING BY YOUR ATTACKS ON ME AND COLDNESS, I DOUBT YOU WOULD HAVE TROUBLE TELLING SOMEONE YOU JUST SENTENCED THEM TO DEATH.

-----ITS THE OTHER WAY AROUND, DEAR ANN, WHAT IF THAT POZ PERSON'S CONDOM BROKE DURING SEX AND HE DID NOT NOTICE FOR A FEW MINUTES. MAYBE HE EVEN ACCIDENTALLY EJACULATES IN THE PARTNER.
            ---------IS HE GOING TO TELL THE PERSON THAT HE NOW FACTUALLY EXPOSED TO HIV WITH 100% CERTAINTY THAT HE EXPOSED THEM??? (KEEP IN MIND THAT HE HAS ALREADY LIED TO THEM BY NOT DISCLOSING HIS POZ STATUS).
            --------I AM SURE THE CHANCE OF A POZ PERSON PUTTING THAT MUCH RISK ON A PERSON THAT DOESN'T KNOW, TELLING THEM THAT HE IS POZ WHEN HE REALLY DID EXPOSE THEM IS SLIM TO NONE.
          -----I BET THAT I COULD PROVE THAT STATISTICALLY.

Anyways, thanks for that really nasty hypothetical on me. I know my morals are decent  and respectful of my fellow human beings. You should ask yourself that same question. To me, your mentality is the classical instance of a victim becoming the victimize.
        ----"Well, that person did it to me. MY TURN." I am sorry for you.


My final thought on what you said "Mind you, I don't really expect you to come back with any replies. You didn't bother to acknowledge any of the replies you got in your other thread, despite five people taking the time - and caring enough - to try to help you."
         -----------Are you the MOD of the Forum of the Gestapo out for the blood of people who do not agree with you? Those comments were very helpful. BUT YOURS ARE NOT ARE ARE VERY UNWELCOME. GROW UP, BECAUSE YOU DON'T SEEM TO ACT THE AGE YOU LOOK, AND DEFINITIVELY DO NOT ACT APPROPRIATE TO THE MOD TITLE YOU POSSESS.
        ---------YOUR COMMENTS HURT ME AND PROBABLY TOOK ME A LITTLE CLOSER TO SUICIDE THE OTHER NIGHT. DO YOU KNOW HOW GUILTY I FELT ABOUT EXPOSING THOSE 4 GIRLS TO HIV? THE REASON I WANTED TO KILL MYSELF IF BECAUSE I DID NOT, AND STILL DO NOT, KNOW HOW I WILL DEAL WITH MY GUILT IF ONE OF THEM TESTS POSITIVE. I DON'T FEEL LIKE I CAN BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT.

IT WAS UNINTENTIONAL. A HORRIBLE MISTAKE. I WOULD GIVE MY LIFE FOR THEM IF THEY WERE TO TEST  POZ. HONESTLY.

Offline anniebc

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2009, 07:31:10 PM »

Hello yet again MOD, ANN,

Every time I read your posts I keep getting the feeling that you are personally attacking me! Why? Did I touch too close to home for you? Did you infect someone intentionally?

YOU say "Have you told those four women yet? Because if you haven't, then the tirade you went on in this thread seems pretty hypocritical. I sure hope you've let them know they need to test. If you haven't, how does that make you any better than a positive person who doesn't disclose before sex, despite using condoms? If you haven't told them, what you're doing (or more to the point, NOT doing...) is far worI
           -These are some broad conclusion to draw based on the  little info provided. The first thing a new POZ person I going to do it tell the people he has slept with, because he is going through a lot in his mind. I doubt the last thing you read or even cared to discuss is the reply to this thread in which I said I think about suicide. Thanks for the vote for life LOLOL. Anyways, I have used that annonymous Health Department Notification system after much hesitation.
           -I think you have been on these forums a while. Are you usually so rude to a 22 year old who just had his whole life turned upside down and stomped on a few times? I wouldn't be surprised. Thanks for the moral check, But it turns out that it was not needed after all.
           -I will be writing POZ an official letter to complain about your position as a Moderator because you keep putting these misleading notions out there that probably lead to new infections.

---You say "how does that make you any better than a positive person who doesn't disclose before sex, despite using condoms? If you haven't told them, what you're doing (or more to the point, NOT doing...) is far worse."
             -----IS THAT MEANT TO BE A FUNNY JOKE? ITS DEFINITELY NOT. HOW IS THAT WORSE. I NEVER KNEW I HAD IT. YES I WAITED A MONTH, BUT THE DAMAGE HAD BEEN DONE MONTHS AND MONTHS AGO.

-----HOW DARE PERSONALLY ATTACK ME IN SUCH A FASHION. WHAT YOU ARE DOING NOW IS FLAME BAITING!

------YOU HAVE THE AUDACITY TO INSINUATE THAT A POZ PERSON HAVING SEX (WITH A CONDOM) AND NO DISCLOSURE IS BETTER THAN ME CONTEMPLATING TELLING GIRLS (THAT I REALLY LIKED) THAT I MAY HAVE SENTENCED THEM TO DEATH???? IT TAKES A WHILE TO PUT THAT INTO A NICE LITTLE SENTENCE. JUDGING BY YOUR ATTACKS ON ME AND COLDNESS, I DOUBT YOU WOULD HAVE TROUBLE TELLING SOMEONE YOU JUST SENTENCED THEM TO DEATH.

-----ITS THE OTHER WAY AROUND, DEAR ANN, WHAT IF THAT POZ PERSON'S CONDOM BROKE DURING SEX AND HE DID NOT NOTICE FOR A FEW MINUTES. MAYBE HE EVEN ACCIDENTALLY EJACULATES IN THE PARTNER.
            ---------IS HE GOING TO TELL THE PERSON THAT HE NOW FACTUALLY EXPOSED TO HIV WITH 100% CERTAINTY THAT HE EXPOSED THEM??? (KEEP IN MIND THAT HE HAS ALREADY LIED TO THEM BY NOT DISCLOSING HIS POZ STATUS).
            --------I AM SURE THE CHANCE OF A POZ PERSON PUTTING THAT MUCH RISK ON A PERSON THAT DOESN'T KNOW, TELLING THEM THAT HE IS POZ WHEN HE REALLY DID EXPOSE THEM IS SLIM TO NONE.
          -----I BET THAT I COULD PROVE THAT STATISTICALLY.

Anyways, thanks for that really nasty hypothetical on me. I know my morals are decent  and respectful of my fellow human beings. You should ask yourself that same question. To me, your mentality is the classical instance of a victim becoming the victimize.
        ----"Well, that person did it to me. MY TURN." I am sorry for you.


My final thought on what you said "Mind you, I don't really expect you to come back with any replies. You didn't bother to acknowledge any of the replies you got in your other thread, despite five people taking the time - and caring enough - to try to help you."
         -----------Are you the MOD of the Forum of the Gestapo out for the blood of people who do not agree with you? Those comments were very helpful. BUT YOURS ARE NOT ARE ARE VERY UNWELCOME. GROW UP, BECAUSE YOU DON'T SEEM TO ACT THE AGE YOU LOOK, AND DEFINITIVELY DO NOT ACT APPROPRIATE TO THE MOD TITLE YOU POSSESS.
        ---------YOUR COMMENTS HURT ME AND PROBABLY TOOK ME A LITTLE CLOSER TO SUICIDE THE OTHER NIGHT. DO YOU KNOW HOW GUILTY I FELT ABOUT EXPOSING THOSE 4 GIRLS TO HIV? THE REASON I WANTED TO KILL MYSELF IF BECAUSE I DID NOT, AND STILL DO NOT, KNOW HOW I WILL DEAL WITH MY GUILT IF ONE OF THEM TESTS POSITIVE. I DON'T FEEL LIKE I CAN BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT.

IT WAS UNINTENTIONAL. A HORRIBLE MISTAKE. I WOULD GIVE MY LIFE FOR THEM IF THEY WERE TO TEST  POZ. HONESTLY.


Ok you have stepped way over the line with this last post...please consider yourself warned..this is going to be your First and Last warning..how dare you condemn people to burn in hell for Eternity and them come back crying because someone said something you didn't like~~grow up .


Quote
Every time I read your posts I keep getting the feeling that you are personally attacking me! Why? Did I touch too close to home for you? Did you infect someone intentionally?

This alone deserves a time out as far as I'm concerned...but i will leave it to the others to make a decision on that.
Jan
« Last Edit: November 21, 2009, 07:33:35 PM by anniebc »
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline Sebastian1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 71
Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #41 on: November 21, 2009, 07:42:44 PM »
tfe-
reread the post from Ann and the others, they weren't personally attacking you, with the internet-it is sometimes hard to get what people are saying, but honestly I think you are misinterperating what people are saying.  Take a step back and read your post-they are angry, the post from Ann again.
By the way, HIV is not a death sentence, read up on the virus and the treatments and you will find that unlike so many people before, today people have access to care and treatment options that will keep them healthy for a life time--yeah it sucks that HIV exist and that you have it, but there is a lot of support out there, and I think if you accept it, even though it sucks, you can see life is worth living.  Telling the people that you may have exposed to it is not a death sentence for them,  but an act of kindness and compassion, so that they can choose to get tested and see where they are at with it, the earlier they know--the better it is for them either way.  
Sit back and reread your comments and everyone else's with an open mind and when you are not so angry and you will find compassionate people out there reaching their hand out to you.
You have every right to feel pissed, but not at anyone on here.  I think your anger is misdirected.  If you are relly suicidal--please get some help for that, learn to enjoy life.  

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2009, 10:12:59 AM »
The quantification we use at AIDSMEDS is based on three distinct and separate studies conducted over the course of two decades with serodiscordant couples. We do not rely on anecdotal evidence insofar as HIV transmission is concerned, especially not now, where the current state of the scientific and epidemiological art is as advanced as it is. With more people living longer and healthier lives, a large enough collection of serodiscordant couples has finally emerged to create blind studies where HIV transmission routes can be studied with scientific quantification.

Here are some of the  scientific findings.


No incident HIV infections among MSM who practice exclusively oral sex.
Int Conf AIDS 2004 Jul 11-16; 15:(abstract no. WePpC2072)??Balls JE, Evans JL, Dilley J, Osmond D, Shiboski S, Shiboski C, Klausner J, McFarland W, Greenspan D, Page-Shafer K?University of California, San Francisco, San Francisco, United States

Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update
J Campo1, MA Perea1, J del Romero2, J Cano1, V Hernando2, A Bascones1
Oral Diseases (2006) 12, 219–228

AIDS:  Volume 16(17)  22 November 2002  pp 2350-2352
Risk of HIV infection attributable to oral sex among men who have sex with men and in the population of men who have sex with men

Page-Shafer, Kimberlya,b; Shiboski, Caroline Hb; Osmond, Dennis Hc; Dilley, Jamesd; McFarland, Willie; Shiboski, Steve Cc; Klausner, Jeffrey De; Balls, Joycea; Greenspan, Deborahb; Greenspan

Page-Shafer K, Veugelers PJ, Moss AR, Strathdee S, Kaldor JM, van Griensven GJ. Sexual risk behavior and risk factors for HIV-1 seroconversion in homosexual men participating in the Tricontinental Seroconverter Study, 1982-1994 [published erratum appears in Am J Epidemiol 1997 15 Dec; 146(12):1076]. Am J Epidemiol 1997, 146:531-542.



Studies which show the fallacy of relying on anecdotal evidence as opposed to carefully controlled study insofar as HIV transmission risk is concerned:

Jenicek M. "Clinical Case Reporting" in Evidence-Based Medicine. Oxford: Butterworth–Heinemann; 1999:117

Saltzman SP, Stoddard AM, McCusker J, Moon MW, Mayer KH. Reliability of self-reported sexual behavior risk factors for HIV infection in homosexual men. Public Health Rep. 1987 102(6):692–697.Nov–Dec;

Catania JA, Gibson DR, Chitwood DD, Coates TJ. Methodological problems in AIDS behavioral research: influences on measurement error and participation bias in studies of sexual behavior. Psychol Bull. 1990 Nov;108(3):339–362.

originally posted by jkinatl2

edited to fix broken link
« Last Edit: November 22, 2009, 10:35:39 AM by Ann »
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Ann

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2009, 10:24:37 AM »
And by the way, no, I have never intentionally - or unintentionally - infected anyone. I'm very open about my hiv status and have disclosed to every single person I've had sex with since I was diagnosed. One, who is negative, didn't want to bother with condoms but of course, I insisted on condoms. He complied. (He knows the man I was with before and after diagnosis remained negative despite a year and a half of not using condoms pre-diagnosis... and remained negative despite over eight years of blowjobs given by me, a poz woman; that's why he didn't want to bother with condoms. He didn't feel the risk was that great.) 

I also gave the names of the people I was with before diagnosis who may have been at risk - and I gave those names on the same day as I was given my Western Blot confirmation. The health department notified them of their need to test, and I also spoke to those people myself.

I hope you're feeling better - if you're still feeling suicidal, PLEASE talk to a trained therapist face-to-face.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline GNYC09

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #44 on: November 22, 2009, 05:05:13 PM »
TheFuturesEnd, seeing a therapist or joining a support group would be one of the best things you could do for yourself right now.  You should also re-read Killfoile's post and take it to heart. Good luck.

Offline Nestor

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  • Posts: 430
  • What we love, we shall grow to resemble.
Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2009, 07:20:46 PM »
TFE,

On the assumption that you are being honest here, and that the unpleasant things you have said spring from an understandable anger and disappointment, I have been wanting to write to you and offer some consolation and some encouragement.  At the same time, however, I have been hesitating to write to you.  For one thing, your emails have bordered on vicious, manipulative, and even hateful.  Secondly, you seem to be at a place where, when people talk to you and try to help you, you become more agitated rather than less.  Look at the trajectory so far: you started out in a rage, your next message was conciliatory, and then a string of messages grew more and more outrageous.  

Also, in the back of my mind I am wondering whether you are not, perhaps, making the whole thing up as a prank.  A few things give me the idea.  For example, you say:

Quote
None of the girls I slept with were nasty and at the risk of some bragging (lol) I am definitely not nasty haha. I don't think that at all.

Serious people do not say "haha" and "lol" at moments of supreme emotional crisis.  Anyhow, in case you are being honest, and in case this gets through the bubble of rage in which you seem to be envelopping yourself, I just wanted to say that this is neither the end of the world nor the end of your life.  I think it is fair to say that everyone in these forums has had happy experiences subsequent to diagnosis with HIV which he would not have had had he committed suicide at the moment of discovery.  

I recognise that you are speaking out of emotion rather than logic, and that your talk of disclosure laws is more a way of dealing with your own disappointment than of serious legislative proposal, but your logic eludes me entirely.  In your initial message and in one of your subsequent ones, you say that if there are laws that will send to jail people who, knowing that they have HIV, have sex without disclosing that fact, then everyone will run to get tested.  I think we would have to go back to the theatre of the absurd to find something that makes as little sense as this.  If knowing that I have HIV obliges me to disclose the fact to everyone, and therefore face a reduction in the number of possible sex partners, don't you think I would rather avoid getting tested?  Unless, of course, you wanted to add to your law that people who do not get tested and infect others still go to jail.

Please do not use threats of suicide as a form of emotional blackmail.  (As in telling Ann that something she said pushed you further towards suicide.)  It backfires in the end.  

I do not suggest therapy or counselling in many cases--there are many people for whom I'm not sure it is a good idea--but in your case I think the advice you were given in the very first response to your initial post was the best and you need to follow it.  To put it bluntly, you need help.  What you are doing now--assuming all of this is for real--is 1. feeding your rage, which is a very self-destructive thing to do--and 2. drumming into your own head a fatalistic view of having HIV.  I am amazed by the number of times you describe HIV as death, murder, killing, ruin, and destruction.  Have you taken a look around these forums?  Here you have a whole group of people who are neither dead nor destroyed.  

I understand that you are angry.  I can only imagine what it must be like to be 22 or whatever and find out what you have just found out.  But please do not take your anger out on your fellow HIVers here in these forums, and especially not on moderators who take the time to answer your questions.  As you move on in your life you may find these forums a helpful place, and it is not in your interest to make enemies of everyone here.  

Also, I suggest you put thoughts about the ethics of disclosure and the risk level of oral sex on the back burner for now.  They are important questions and you are going to need to deal with them but they are not priorities.  The priority is for you to deal with the fact that you have HIV.  You do not need to run to the doctor immediately but you do need to do so sooner or later.  The first priority is to deal with this destructive rage which seems to be eating away at you, and the second is to keep your studies going somehow.  I suspect that dwelling on questions such as "exposure laws" is a way of avoiding questions of practical necessity for yourself at this moment.  

Good luck.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2009, 07:22:30 PM by Nestor »
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline TheFuturesEnd

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #46 on: December 03, 2009, 07:32:56 PM »
TFE,
  The first priority is to deal with this destructive rage which seems to be eating away at you, and the second is to keep your studies going somehow.  I suspect that dwelling on questions such as "exposure laws" is a way of avoiding questions of practical necessity for yourself at this moment.  

Yea that's exactly what it was... I have become very obsessive over anything that lets me leave reality.

Tomorrow... Appointment to get the mutation/genotype results. I am sooo sick to my stomach right now thinking about it but I gotta go.

I am going to get an anti-depressant because I think I'm showing my depression in rage to others. I stare at myself in the mirror (1 1/2 hours) a lot and just don't feel like anyone is looking back at me.

I think this is the least amount of stuff I have ever posted haha. I just have nothing in me anymore.

But im trying to stay positive. Trying to get a C average. Trying to think that I don't have a super horrible genome/resistance/mutation becuase while this whole time i have known that this probably wont kill me... its like im 21, lost by best friend when he found out, have no money, insurance company sent me a weird letter a week ago, too much to think about so im gna stop there haha. Im learning.

I was gna ask everyone thats been keeping tabs on this thread for advice... would you say I am super depressed or having unheard of anxiety attacks? it come down to anti-depressant or xanax/klonipin... I just need something so I can enjoy myself again.

Offline Ann

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #47 on: December 04, 2009, 09:55:33 AM »
TFE,

Better living through chemistry, eh? I strongly urge you to seek out some face-to-face counselling. It's been proven through studies that one-on-one counselling has much better long term success in dealing with depression and anxiety disorders than medications alone do. Most universities have free or very low cost counselling services. Please check this out at your school. And don't fret about confidentiality - they are bound by the same confidentiality laws as any other health care provider. If they went around talking about their clients, they'd end up with no clients and loads of lawsuits.

And try to not worry so much about your upcoming genotype tests. It's very rare - pretty much unheard of - for a treatment naive individual such as yourself to have a "super horrible" resistance profile. Chances are definitely in your favour that you have no resistance at all. So hang in there!

Thanks for keeping us posted.

Ann



edited for suckie syntax
« Last Edit: December 04, 2009, 09:58:00 AM by Ann »
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline max123

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #48 on: December 04, 2009, 08:18:53 PM »
I was gna ask everyone thats been keeping tabs on this thread for advice... would you say I am super depressed or having unheard of anxiety attacks? it come down to anti-depressant or xanax/klonipin... I just need something so I can enjoy myself again.

future,

glad that you're making some headway and concentrating a little more on your future.

as has been suggested, get some counseling. only a trained professional would be the appropriate person to make a diagnosis, treatment recommendations, and suggest medications (if even necessary).

good luck with finals and hang in there.

max
1/86 - 6/08 (annually): neg elisa
7/09: pos elisa/pos wb
8/09: cd4 560, cd4% 35, vl 13,050
12/09: cd4 568, cd4% 33, vl 2,690
4/10: cd4 557, cd4% 29.3, vl 6,440
7/10: cd4 562, cd4% 29.6, vl 3,780

Offline Lakis

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Re: I am so pissed off!!!!!!!
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2009, 06:25:28 PM »
Hi vicious "TheFuture....."
Welcome to the Forums.
Need any Prozac??????????

 


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