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Author Topic: Worried before, just need some steady evidence if possible  (Read 5640 times)

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Offline panic88m

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Worried before, just need some steady evidence if possible
« on: November 07, 2009, 09:29:29 AM »
Hi, anyone that can help.

 Recently I gave oral sex to a male I met randomly, I had been chewing gum and bit my cheek a short while before...There was only pre-ejac involved and it didnt last a huge amount of time. My concern is that this may have got into the wound. Obviously this is a huge concern to me and the prospect of having to wait twelve weeks for any test to be conclusive petrifies me....Please discuss with me how high this risk is, PLEASE!

Thanks....

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2009, 10:20:09 AM »
There has never been a confirmed case of transmission through giving oral, despite the various reports of people having been infected in that manner.

Your saliva has over a dozen elements and proteins which are very effective in preventing the transmission of viable HIV, IF it is present.

Further, there are longterm ongoing studies of sero-discordant couples, both gay and straight, who have had lots of mutually unprotected oral sex and only protected vaginal and anal intercourse. To date not a single sero-negative partner has become infected.

The only reason for you to get tested is if you feel you need the inevitable negative result to let go of this concern.
Andy Velez

Offline panic88m

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2009, 10:05:26 PM »
That has reassured me somewhat so thankyou! I am however wondering if those involved ever had any higher risk factors than just oral. Whether they have had oral ulcers or cuts in their mouth during those oral activities...If they have done and still not been infected that is even more reassuring, do you know whether that has been a factor?

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2009, 08:37:41 AM »
Under careful examination often intravenous drug use may have been involved and/or forgetfulness because of heavy drinking or other drug use at the time or embaressment about what was actually done sexually, among other risk factors.  
Andy Velez

Offline panic88m

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2009, 06:06:41 PM »
thankyou, i think you misunderstood me though....i meant that out of the sero discordant couples did they factor into these studies things such as cuts in mouths or ulcers...or were they advised to cease oral if these were present. Im jst trying to paint a bigger picture....

Offline Ann

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2009, 09:23:31 AM »
panic,

To my knowledge, the only thing people in the serodiscordant studies were advised to do was to use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse. After all, that's all a person needs to do in order to remain hiv negative.

It's time you painted a bigger picture of getting on with your life.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline panic88m

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2009, 11:22:47 AM »
Ann,

 Its not to scrutinise whats been said I was asking more because surely its more about educating people than anything else! Thanks for your reply and I'm glad you'd assess my risk the same...

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2009, 03:02:19 PM »
Yes, and now you can get on with your life.
Andy Velez

Offline panic88m

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2009, 02:31:12 PM »
are glands that are up due to ars painful...i know ur advice wouldnt be telling me im fine if such advice could result in repercussions on urself its just these glands are newly up and im concerned its ars....thanks.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2009, 04:34:53 PM »
Swollen lymph nodes are in no way an HIV specific happening. They occur for all sorts of reasons. It's very important that you not squeeze and otherwise bother them as they are sensitive to the touch. If they persist you should discuss them with your doctor.

In your case there is no reason to believe they have anything to do with ARS. NONE.
Andy Velez

Offline panic88m

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2009, 08:37:34 AM »
i have a red rash and spot on my penis and under the foreskin now....what sti is this like, its painfree! But is not normal.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2009, 09:41:40 AM »
Discuss your rash with your doctor. You're getting on to a very slippery slope by (mis)interpreting everything that happens to your body as ANOTHER SIGN! of HIV.

Andy Velez

Offline panic88m

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2009, 12:34:36 PM »
yes but what im asking is does ars rash or any other symptom of hiv cause this dark red spotting and red raw yet pain free rash on the head of my penis and on the shaft....?? Also...i have cauliflower looking spotting on the very back of my tongue, im worried that you may have been wrong about me having no risk to hiv....

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2009, 12:36:16 PM »
The rash associated with ARS appears on the trunk of the body and sometimes arms, not on the penis.

Do yourself a big favor and go to a doctor and get your situation properly diagnosed. It's NOT HIV.
Andy Velez

Offline panic88m

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2009, 01:19:17 PM »
im going saturday to a gum clinic...is six days too early for ars anyway? If he had another sti that i have acquired does my risk of hiv from the same episode increase....i was told by gum clinic to call and talk to the terrence higgins trust who told me there have been confirmed cases of hiv through oral sex, why do u say there isnt....?

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2009, 01:24:11 PM »
This isn't a debating society here. I've given you our opinion about what you have reported.

We can't diagnose your rash or anything else in this setting.

If the person you were with had other STDs as well as HIV, that doesn't increase the risk of transmission of HIV to you. If you already had an active STD, that would affect your immune system and increase your vulnerability to HIV during unsafe sex. But that was not your circumstance as you have described it. 

As for what you are insisting was a risk, we have a disagreement. Go ahead and get tested if you need the inevitable negative result to put your mind at ease.
Andy Velez

Offline panic88m

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2009, 01:38:26 PM »
i havent insisted anything, however terrence higgins have insisted ur being dishonest, you clearly ignored that part of my question as well. Ur playing with peoples lives if thats the case. Goodbye

Offline Ann

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2009, 01:47:44 PM »
Panic,

While there have been patient reports of people being infected this way, there's never been a proven, documented case. What we mean by documented is where there has been an investigation into the genotype of the virus transmitted and checked against the person from whom the virus allegedly originated. This has never happened, despite it being checked for and despite blowjobs being one of the most common forms of sexual activity. Transmission HAS been proven this way for intercourse. Over and over and over again.

Whoever you spoke to at THT may be assuming that because a case of patient report was written up in a journal, that it was documented, but this is not the proper meaning of a case being documented.

You need to show the rash on your penis to a doctor. Syphilis lesions are painless and syphilis is MUCH more easily transmitted than hiv. We cannot diagnose you and neither can you. Get yourself checked out.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline panic88m

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2009, 03:54:27 AM »
I now have what looks like oral hairy leukoplakia on my tongue at the side...this is an early sign of hiv infection isnt it...! Nothing I can find for it points to anything but early hiv infection....

Offline Ann

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2009, 07:47:59 AM »
panic,

STOP self-diagnosing. Unless you've been diagnosed with OHL by a doctor or dentist, I don't want to hear about it. If you keep micro-examining your body, you're going to find all sorts of things that you never noticed before and your mind is going to attribute it to hiv. This is nonsense.

You can fret all you like about this, but it's not going to change our risk assessment. You can go test for peace of mind if you want to, but don't be surprised by your negative result. As a sexually active adult, you should be testing for ALL STIs - not just hiv - regularly anyway.

I do NOT expect you to test positive over this blowjob incident.

By the way, have you gotten that painless rash on your penis checked out yet? As I said earlier, syphilis lesions/rash are painless. You really need to get that looked at and be tested for syphilis.

Ann
« Last Edit: November 14, 2009, 07:50:01 AM by Ann »
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline panic88m

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2009, 08:01:32 AM »
I went to the STD clinic today...Doctor reckoned that due to how quickly the redness and rash on the penis subsided that it could be soap related...as for my tongue, he didnt know what it was but reckoned "pretty much..." not leukoplakia or thrush....So I dont know what to think of that. I am aware of the need to check for STD's, and I do...Hiv is the one that scares me and this is a HIV forum hence the questions about HIV....

Offline Ann

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2009, 08:05:56 AM »
panic,

I'm glad you got your penis checked out.

As for hiv, we've given your our assessment.

Just make sure you're using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple! Make sure you read all three condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use them with confidence.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline panic88m

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2009, 08:08:51 AM »
So you can honestly say you have never known of one person who got hiv through oral sex with pre cum?

Offline Ann

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2009, 08:17:28 AM »
pan,

I've known people who claimed it, but I've never know a case where it was proven. These people have had other risks but decided it was the oral that did it. That doesn't make it true.

Why don't you go test at six weeks after this incident and collect your negative result? A six week negative is highly unlikely to change.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline panic88m

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2009, 01:07:39 PM »
fingers crossed it is negative then!

Offline panic88m

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2009, 07:38:28 AM »
Hey,

I guess you guys are probably getting very f***** off with me now but I do just want to ask. i've accepted my exposure was low risk and that time needs to pass but how quickly would oral complaints take place...this white on the edge of my tongue is only recent and I'm scared. I know i was negative before as I had been tested. how quickly could ARS symptoms show and is it likely that I'd just have one, i.e. the thrush if thats what it is. Oral leukoplakia isn't an ARS thing is it, its after a longer period of time. I'm trying to stop worrying and put things into perspective

Offline Ann

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2009, 07:44:53 AM »
Pan,

Symptoms, or even the lack of symptoms, mean nothing where hiv is concerned. We do not discuss symptoms here - you should be discussing them with your doctor or dentist.


If you read the Welcome Thread before posting like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:

Quote

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.


Please consider yourself warned!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline panic88m

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2009, 08:15:51 AM »
I've read you responding for other people about symptoms im asking a pattern they follow....Im not saying it does or doesnt mean im positive im interested in understanding what the symptoms are though. As in, if you had a rash, would you have other associated symptoms? etc...or can they be singular...from examples of people that have been confirmed positive not just think they are....?

Offline Ann

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Re: Oral risk
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2009, 08:35:33 AM »
Pan,

If you've read my answers to others, then why are you asking the same question? The answer isn't going to change.

I'm giving you that time out you've been warned about. Do not attempt to create a new account to get around your time out because if you do, you will be permanently banned.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline panic88m

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Worried before, just need some steady evidence if possible
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2010, 02:26:22 PM »
Hey,

Have had huge anxiety (admittedly irrationally...) over HIV in the past and my actions recently have sent me back into this whirl wind...

I met a stranger 2 weeks and we mutually masturbated each other, for quite a while, he did this with my foreskin peeled back which was obviously uncomfortable after a while and felt a bit brutal so i asked him to be more gentle...which he was, As i was about to cum he decided to suck me off. Couldnt really have been for more than 15-30 seconds in reality, he didnt really spit or swallow he took it in his mouth and sucked me for a couple of seconds laters and then stopped, i cleaned myself up as best as i could and im really worried that not cleaning up completely allowed hiv to stay active under my foreskin, with a potential route in with how rough he was whilst masturbating me.

I really don't need to test over him sucking me off for a short time with regards to hiv do i? Even with how rough he was with my penis beforehand....I think the head of my penis seems quite resilliant but now i have a fairly proportionate red rash which i think is likely to be from friction...Would you say this puts me at risk of hiv? If so, what is the reason as to why and why is advice in different places contridictory, as in, reported cases, no documented...? Why weren't they followed up if they potentially happened....??

The not so generic question, and hopefully a silly one. I have a filthy habit of biting my nails...TUT! the night before in bed i bit my thumb nail that slight bit too low...you know when it hurts? I cant say it bled, but it hurt so guessing the trauma was a cut under the nail. Whilst masturbating him when we met that morning he pre-came..i was playing with the head of his penis under  his foreskin where the pre-cum was, with that thumb. 4-5 hours after biting the nail off...Now im pretty sure this question is silly but please tell me! Is it possible his pre-cum would be enough to infect me through such a tiny wound that i've not noticed bleed but it just painful to use for certain tasks and also with the use of alcohol gel, hence the need to stop biting nails. After we finished we chatted for a while about lifestyles a bit more and he seems to get around far more than he initially suggested, fine, lifestyle choice and our session today was mild its just getting me back into my state of panic. Does pre-cum and superficial, not fresh wounds really allow a realistic route for transmission.

I would be really grateful for some support here however trivial or misinformed it may seem (i sort of know the answers im just not listening to my brain being rational.) This will hopefully stop me panicking and put things in perspective. Obviously testing for anxiety might be good but is there any clinical reason to from this, i know im negative before it and i dont want to get to the point of obsessing about the date i can test when its not necessary, like I have done here before. Thanks

Offline Ann

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Re: Worried before, just need some steady evidence if possible
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2010, 03:06:41 PM »
Pan,

I've merged your new thread into your original thread - where you should post all your additional thoughts or questions. It helps us to help you when you keep all your additional thoughts or questions in one thread. It doesn't matter how long it has been since you last posted in your thread or if the subject matter is different.

If you need help finding your thread when you come here, click on the "Show own posts" link under your name in the left-hand column of any forum page.

Please also read through the Welcome Thread so you can familiarize yourself with our Forum Posting Guidelines. Thank you for your cooperation.





Nothing you're concerned about was a risk for hiv infection. Mutual masturbation is not a risk no matter what details you want to throw in, including a rough handjob or bitten nails. NO RISK.

Getting a blowjob is also not a risk for hiv infection, no matter what details you want to throw in. Not only is saliva not infectious, but it also contains over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect.

If you insist on going on and on about this latest no concern of yours, you will quickly be given a second time out. No kidding. You've been coming here long enough now to know this stuff.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE!!!


Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline panic88m

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Re: Worried before, just need some steady evidence if possible
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2010, 03:15:53 PM »
I'm not letting myself run away like before and thanks for merging the posts, I didn't know how to.

Can you help me understand some stuff though? Saliva has HIV inhibiting factors I understand...Would this count with any blood or anything in the positive persons mouth? So if he were to have HIV his own saliva would make it inactive?

It may be insignificant but after how much I let myself run out of control last time, but,  why are there these reports of such things happening but them never being followed through to then be documented? Is it because health workers have disbelieved when someone discloses oral as their only risk or have they tried to prove this as a source and not been able to? This isn't thankfully anxiety driven, I am just really interested.

Thanks Ann, you were right last time, i'm pretty damn sure you will be right this time as many places don't even see insertive as a risk despite being conservative about the receptive partners risk! Cheers.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Worried before, just need some steady evidence if possible
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2010, 04:41:50 PM »
In the entire history of the epidemic there has yet to be a single confirmed case of transmission to guy through his receiving oral. It is safe to say you aren't going to make history by becoming the first. As for masturbation, no matter what details you throw in about it, there is absolutely no risk for transmission.

Your jumble of questions just denotes a lot of anxiety about details your mind is spinning about on and nothing based in HIV science. You are worrying needlessly. I'm going to reinforce what Ann has told you, namely that if you consistently use condoms for vaginal and anal intercourse you will be well protected against the sexual transmission of HIV.

You need to apply what has been said to you in the past to ongoing sexual experiences.

AND we're not about to indulge you in another lengthy round of exchanges over your latest non-risk incident. You will very quickly find yourself getting another Time Out.
Andy Velez

Offline panic88m

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Re: Worried before, just need some steady evidence if possible
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2010, 04:49:18 PM »
I understand it shan't go on for so long, I said that i get it in my last post but i dont think its anxiety that is making me ask the difference in it reported and being followed up to the point of being documented.

I will ask once more, probably re-wording what ive asked but no matter how brutal the friction was against the glans on my penis from the handjob, the oral still provides no risk? I will test because you already know what I'm like when i get this idea in my head but I really do take confidence from the advice you give me. I've learnt to listen since last time.

In a strange way, nice to hear from you both, and thanks for being here for us out of control mentalists!

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Worried before, just need some steady evidence if possible
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2010, 05:13:05 PM »
Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Worried before, just need some steady evidence if possible
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2010, 08:09:21 PM »
That's right, even with a "rough" handjob first, receiving oral is NOT a risk. Period. End of story.
Andy Velez

Offline panic88m

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Re: Worried before, just need some steady evidence if possible
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2010, 04:42:12 AM »
Cool, so the faint rash on my torso and my mild ish fever dont need to be sending me into panic which is encouraging. Fed up of panicking over nothing when I've not done anything to put myself at risk! Mind games suck!

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Worried before, just need some steady evidence if possible
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2010, 05:22:18 PM »
That's right. You are the one who is creating this needless drama.

And you are on the verge of a Time Out here. Cut is out and get on with your life.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 05:24:40 PM by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

 


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