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Author Topic: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster  (Read 14649 times)

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Offline edfu

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Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« on: November 02, 2009, 05:53:00 PM »
"New York" magazine has just this week published a major article, by noted gay journalist David France, "Another Kind of AIDS Crisis."  It includes photos and a video.  It is so important and frightening that I felt it deserved its own thread rather than adding it to my earlier one on the Project Inform forum.  It is essential reading for anyone interested in this topic.
 
http://nymag.com/health/features/61740/
« Last Edit: November 02, 2009, 06:07:02 PM by edfu »
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline Miss Philicia

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Offline BT65

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2009, 06:27:53 PM »
I sent the link to my doctor.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline edfu

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2009, 07:06:50 PM »
I'm sorry for the double posting; I didn't think to check the "Living With" forum first to see if someone had posted the "New York" article there.  Normally I would ask the moderators to combine the posts.  However, I think my initial instincts are correct.  I saw in the replies to the article on the "New York" site itself--and now, sadly, in the AIDSmeds "Living With" thread--that those who are not LTS are denigrating and pooh-poohing the article as sensationalist, incorrect, etc.  I propose that the article link remain on this "LTS" thread, where it can be safe from such negative attacks from those who are not experiencing what the article describes. 

This is yet further proof that the reasoning behind the establishment of the LTS forum was sound.   
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline Ann

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2009, 07:15:51 PM »
edfu, I totally agree that this thread should be left where it is.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline edfu

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2009, 07:21:59 PM »
Thanks, Ann.  Great minds think alike.   ;)
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2009, 07:32:48 PM »
I saw in the replies to the article on the "New York" site itself--and now, sadly, in the AIDSmeds "Living With" thread--that those who are not LTS are denigrating and pooh-poohing the article as sensationalist, incorrect, etc.

That's because they're retards, my dear.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline AndyArrow

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2009, 12:04:26 AM »
Thanks for posting the link in this section as I have gotten away from reading the Living With section because of comments like those posted there.
It is not the arrival that matters.  It is the journey along the way. -- Michel Montaigne

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2009, 06:36:33 AM »
That's because they're retards, my dear.

You hit a nerve dear. ;D

Offline OneTampa

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2009, 07:50:45 AM »
Thank you for your gavel down decision as I also agree that the article belongs at the LTS section of the boards. 
"He is my oldest child. The shy and retiring one over there with the Haitian headdress serving pescaŪto frito."

Offline bear60

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2009, 09:55:09 AM »
I asked Kurt to watch the video with me and after seeing it I asked him " Do you think this is a pretty good portrayal of people who have been on HIV  meds for 20 (plus) years?" His response: "yes"  He then said that during one of his doctor visits his primary physician jokingly said to him "Well what do you expect, we've been poisoning you for 20 years".

Joel
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Offline sharkdiver

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2009, 10:13:54 AM »
I just read the post "over there" and all I can say right now is

I am so grateful for you guys here. 



Offline Jeff G

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2009, 10:34:12 AM »
Once again this forum has proved itself a great value to me . Thank goodness doctors are finally addressing and we are discussing what I have been suspecting all along as LTS .

The articles about LTS with post traumatic syndrome and unexplained pain and suffering make me feel less alone and validates some of what I have been through .

I can understand why some here would not want face what some here already know . It could be something scary for some to digest .

Offline lforsyth

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2009, 02:19:09 PM »
I was diagnosed in 1986, put on meds in 1997.  My Doctor is arranging for me to have a bone mass xray. Today my Dentist informed me that my periodontal problems are also HIV related and that is why the specialist has taken charge of my cleanings.  I had to loose 8 bottom teeth 6 years ago and the specialist was in charge of the post's.  There seems to be a lot of problems related to HIV even if the immune system is considered normal and the virus is under control.  But how much is the Virus and how much is long term affects of the meds?

I'm expected to put in 10 hour days at work and I'm just not up to it.  I was born with lazy eye and have permanent double vision so I'm pretty tired after eight hours as a systems analyst anyway.

I also loose my train of thought during the day and have other problems that have increased over the years. So I'm not surprised by the article.

Thank you for posting.
Tested POZ in 1986, knew there was something wrong in 1985. 04/2010 CD4: 975 Viral Load undetectable. Prezista, Norvir, Truvada, Acyclovir, Plavix, Lisinopril, Metoprolol and a bedtime snack of Lipitor (YUM)

Offline BT65

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2009, 05:36:52 AM »
I have dentures, osteoporosis, and avascular necrosis in both my knees, which has resulted in total loss of cartilage in both, and diabetes.  I feel pretty old every time I stand up.  I've been + for 20 years, diagnosed with Aids for 15, and on meds for like 15 or 16.  So I'm assuming the maladies are a combination of both (being + and long term use of meds).
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 05:38:39 AM by BT65 »
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline Ann

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2009, 12:09:20 PM »
~sigh~

We've had a complaint or two that this thread is nothing more than "flamebait by post-count". I don't agree.

The ONLY comment that MIGHT be interpreted as flamebait was Miss P's "retard" comment. When I read that, I assumed he was speaking of the people who commented on the magazine article, on the magazine's site.

Miss P, if you were also referring to some people who commented in the other thread on this subject, then consider yourself warned. Don't do it again, naughty girl. I don't want to have to give you a time out over something as petty as this.

People, if you can't handle acerbic comments from our loveable but sometimes crotchety Long Term Survivors, then DON'T READ THEIR FORUM. This is why we gave them their own space where they can bitch and moan to their hearts content without non-LTSers becoming offended - or causing offence.

Gee guys, try to not hurt the sensitive feelings around this place. ::)

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Moffie65

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2009, 12:21:46 PM »
Geez, talk about accentuating the obvious.

I don't give a damn what NY magazine says, for years, just like most of you, I have known for sure that either the HIV or the treatments have been fuckiing with my body and aging.  Isn't it interesting that now that the muffle that has been sitting on science's mouths over the last 8 years has been removed; we are now starting to find the truth about not only HIV but many more things that have been clouded by insanity.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline pozatude

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2009, 12:47:40 PM »
  Thanks so much for posting the link to this story!  When I try to explain this "phenom" to my health care providers, family and friends, they just dont seem to understand.  The idea that I am going through issues that my parents and their generation is going through, I just get blank looks.  I think they feel any complaining about HIV treatment side effects is ridiculous considering the alternative.  When I have talked to my Doctor about this, he just blew it off to depression and sent me for a psych consult . . . I dont have to tell you guys how that goes over.  Anyway, now I have something to back up what I am saying.  Thanks again, and this post definantly belongs in this forum.
jdi
"Live, Laugh, Love"

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2009, 12:51:23 PM »
Well, uh actually the article does raise the issue of depression possibly causing inflammation long term which can result in other issues, but that's not all clear yet.  I found it particularly interesting.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline leatherman

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2009, 01:11:53 PM »
The idea that I am going through issues that my parents and their generation is going through, I just get blank looks.
when I was trying to explain to my family just this past week how I feel 87 instead of 47, everyone laughed, poo-pooed me, and countered with how "old" they were feeling too. ::)

However when I explained that just like my 92 yr old grandmother that I have lost my spouse, been in the hospital more, see the doctors more, and take more meds than anyone else in the family, I see a glimmer of understanding. ;) When I add that unlike my grandmother I've lost twice as many spouses, been in the hospital three times as much, and have taken meds over 3 times the amount of yrs that "Nana" has, well, I think it scares the hell outta them. :o

I just moved back to the Carolinas a few months ago after 23 years, and not only have I had to tell the whole "grisly" tale of my life (over and over and over) to every case worker, nurse, health dpt agent, and doctor imaginable; but I've been trying to educate my family too. Up until I got here in early Sept., all my "stories" from OH (like having PCP, taking 32 pills a day, burying two partners) were just that to them, "stories". It was a "nice" coincidence that these reports came out this week, so that I could use those to educate my family some about the results of what living with AIDS for 17 years is like.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2009, 01:13:14 PM »
~sigh~

We've had a complaint or two that this thread is nothing more than "flamebait by post-count". I don't agree.

The ONLY comment that MIGHT be interpreted as flamebait was Miss P's "retard" comment. When I read that, I assumed he was speaking of the people who commented on the magazine article, on the magazine's site.

Miss P, if you were also referring to some people who commented in the other thread on this subject, then consider yourself warned. Don't do it again, naughty girl. I don't want to have to give you a time out over something as petty as this.

People, if you can't handle acerbic comments from our loveable but sometimes crotchety Long Term Survivors, then DON'T READ THEIR FORUM. This is why we gave them their own space where they can bitch and moan to their hearts content without non-LTSers becoming offended - or causing offence.

Gee guys, try to not hurt the sensitive feelings around this place. ::)

Ann

They will be crotchety  too when they get to that bone-weary point of living with AIDS for a couple of decades. Hopefully they will never have to endure the emotional scarring of losing so many they loved. The spectre of your own death emphasised in "maybe this could be the final OI" over and over again. No treatment, no hope, no nothing. Every day suffocated under the black cloud of AIDS. Live in constant fear for twenty years and then get back to me.

Even after that you rarely hear a LTS say why me? We know why and we move foward with dignity, black humor, and an understanding of what our LTS sisters and brothers endured and continue to endure. For all we continue to go through as we age with this disease we present more of a positive attitude than any other group that populates the forums. We took our heads out of our asses a long time ago.

We didn't need to read the article, we live it.

I just wanted to add that it's a shame that a disgruntled member can get a semi-warning issued over an innocuous comment or word. I imagine this is probably more score settling from someone who broke the rules repeatidly by posting in LTS and has their own agenda. God, such delicate flowers.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 01:15:15 PM by Dachshund »

Offline Ann

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2009, 01:53:44 PM »

I just wanted to add that it's a shame that a disgruntled member can get a semi-warning issued over an innocuous comment or word. I imagine this is probably more score settling from someone who broke the rules repeatidly by posting in LTS and has their own agenda. God, such delicate flowers.


No, to set the record straight, it wasn't who you're thinking of. I won't say who it was, but it wasn't that one.

And it was a sarcastic warning at best. As I said earlier, to me it read like he was talking more about the people on the other website. If the comments there are anything like what comments about hiv/aids are like on most other public forums, the comment was well deserved.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2009, 02:03:38 PM »
Of course my earlier comment was squarely aimed at the on line respondents on the NYmag.com web site.  I, for one, would never refer to a fellow AIDSmeds poster as a "retard" -- that would be name calling, and as a member in long standing of this august web forum I know what the rules are.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Ann

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2009, 02:21:26 PM »
Of course my earlier comment was squarely aimed at the on line respondents on the NYmag.com web site.  I, for one, would never refer to a fellow AIDSmeds poster as a "retard" -- that would be name calling, and as a member in long standing of this august web forum I know what the rules are.

Thank you for the clarification, Miss P. It's what I figured, knowing you, and knowing how hiv/aids articles on other websites can draw some of the most asinine commentary. I never for a moment thought you were referring to anyone on this website.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline anniebc

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2009, 11:40:50 PM »

Even after that you rarely hear a LTS say why me? We know why and we move foward with dignity, black humor, and an understanding of what our LTS sisters and brothers endured and continue to endure. For all we continue to go through as we age with this disease we present more of a positive attitude than any other group that populates the forums. We took our heads out of our asses a long time ago.

We didn't need to read the article, we live it.

Thank you Hal....the very reason I have so much respect for you and other LTS's.

Just a wee reminder to all of us who are not LTS (and yes I'm one of them) we have 16 forums to post in the LTS have 1, so lets stay out and leave them in peace.

Hugs
Jan :-*
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Offline TimmyT

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2009, 07:48:08 PM »
Yes I must add the NY Mag article only adds to what I have already known about this virus after living with it for 20 years. I began to wake up to reality of all of this a couple of years ago when I fractured my foot. My Endocrinologist, on a separate and unrelated visit, heard about the break looked at me strange and said I should not be breaking bones at my age. Ha. He immediately did a bone density exam and found I had low bone density. So now I have more in common with Sally Field than I could have ever imagined. Sally and me we do Yoga together pop bone pills with Martini's, talk about hot men incessantly. Still trying to get the b***h to put me in a commercial so I can make a few extra bucks.

Seriously, what saddened me was the case of the Dr from the article who went to law school and a was a couple of weeks away from graduating. Sad. It hit home with me because I am studying to take the LSAT and I'm thinking of applying to law school. Great will law school stress and this damned virus short circuit my brain enough to leave me permanently disabled in my mid forties???  ???
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 06:55:04 PM by TimmyT »

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2009, 08:12:21 PM »
My most recent wake up call was when I was reminded by a member here on the forums I had sent multiple pm messages about the same subject to her . I was really flustered by it and had no memory of doing so . Tomorrow I see a specialest about painful swollen joints and muscles , all this at 47 yrs old . Makes me think if I still could LOL . 

Offline pozatude

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2009, 12:23:12 PM »
So now I have more in common with Sally Field than I could ever imagined.

Dont forget how much we like you . . . we really really like you!    :D
jdi
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Offline MWCLTonline

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2009, 06:05:31 PM »
Quote from: MWCLTonline on Today at 03:45:52 pm
 I agree with Ann and have discussed same w/ my local HIV/AIDS Care Coordinators & prevention & education folks.  I also think that we as a CommUNITY should talk about, be unified & identified by the whole HIVe rather than a NAPWA...  After all; we all have one but not necessarily the other!


I want to agree with max123 as well and offer these 2cents:

" What the public really loathes in homosexuality
is not the thing itself but having to think about it" -E. M. Forster

This is equally, if not more, true in regards to the current status of HIV/AIDS in America.  I am speaking as one who has been a participant in and experienced the full history of the disease.  I also speak as a pre-Stonewall baby boomer (born 1955) that has experienced the whole gamut of anti-gay sentiments; from discrimination, verbal assaults, harassment and a gay-bashing to discrimination and familial indifference and abandonment.  One of my mentors, Oprah Winfrey, espouses that "Forgiveness is giving up the hope that the past can be different".  A concept that I've tried to embrace as a way of healing my anger and self. However, I find that I can not embrace "Forgive and Forget" and I refuse to yield to the outside forces that expect it of me.  Likewise, I refuse to abandon my mission to keep reminding us of these past mistakes in order to keep them from being repeated in the future.

Eleanor Roosevelt is attributed to saying:

  "You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every
     experience in which you really stop to look fear in the
     face...The danger lies in refusing to face the fear, in not
     daring to come to grips with it...You must make yourself
     succeed every time. You must do the thing you think you
     cannot do."

and

"Beautiful young people are accidents of nature,
But beautiful old people are works of art.
Learn from the mistakes of others.
You can't live long enough to make them all yourself."
 
One of the bones that this old dog can't let go of is the way gays have been regarded, treated and raised in America.  While I can acknowledge that folks may have done the best they could or knew how to do; I can no longer restrain myself from saying that while that may have been true, it just wasn't good enough.
 
I was reminded of this after reading part 3 of a series about the local appearance of Judy Shepard in the Greater Cincinnati GLBT News, where she talked about her sons coming out:
 
"Matt was 18 when he came out to me, over the phone...  And my reply was, Oh what took you so long to tell me?  And there was this pause on the other end and he said, Oh well, how did you know before I knew? and my reply to that was, Oh well, they tell me it is a mom thing.
Thank God I questioned, because it gave me time, about 10 years, to educate myself about what his life could be like should he be Gay.  At that period of time there was not much positive literature...  I knew that should he be gay his potential for becoming a victim would grow expediently.  I educated myself as much as I could...  So, I was preparing myself for Matt to come out to me and was not surprised when he did but was surprised it took so long for him to come out to himself...
Make A Difference, Be Involved!
I'm glad for PFLAG, Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays, a gift from God to the community, a counseling group, a support group, a wonderful collection of people with warm, loving arms for parents who are trying to understand their children, for children who no longer have the loving arms of their parents..."

This in turn reminded me of the words written by a dear friend in an article in her church's newsletter for World AIDS Day 1994:
 
"...Both families have been touched by the same devastating disease - AIDS.  The families and churches have handled it very differently.  The prejudice which has torn Mike's family in two has been based on his sexual orientation and not his soul or heart.  Mike is just as valuable to God as Susan was but the people to which God entrusted their lives have treated them very differently..."

Matthew Shepard was lucky enough to have been born in (1976) the post-Stonewall enlightened era,  21 years after I.  His parents didn't buy into all the crap, but instead prepared and educated themselves with the aim of being unconditionally supportive and loving.  What a difference an era makes!!! 


"What are you doing the rest of your Life...?" I've always felt, especially since being diagnosed in '91, that the least I can or should do would be to share my experiences in such a way that having done so would make it easier, better, less scary for those who may follow me...

 Hhmm...  What a difference these last 18 years have made!  I may have made my peace, arrangements, payments and directives for my departure but I have long passed the span of time in which it was thought to have occurred!  WTF: Now it appears that I have options to consider other than HIV/AIDS and a longer term to plan for.

Y'All take Good Care...,
Michael
http://mwcltonline.spaces.live.com
"HIV is something you live with every day for the rest of your life. You may never die of It, but you will always die with it..."

Offline Theyer

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #29 on: November 09, 2009, 08:21:45 AM »
This has been discussed at my clinic Chelsea & Westminster kobler London amongst LTS for a very long time and I distantly remember a research nurse adding that the Drug Companies are just loving AID's all the off "off shoot,s" But you could guarantee the DC would not be adding the facts to the marketing?advertising. However given the fear off aging in society the truth might make a few people avoid it or maybe not. ventvent ventvent.
theyer
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Offline aztecan

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2009, 01:02:46 AM »
Having 24 years with HIV, I think I started seeing some of the aging type things a few years ago.

Of course, it could have been earlier. I tend to forget.

But one of the more troubling things, outside of trying to deal with arthritic hands, knees, back and feet, is a seeming loss of balance.

I have to correct my stance sometimes to make sure I don't fall. When we were in Mexico City in 08, I did fall. I was standing there one minute, flat on my back the next - and I hadn't been drinking yet.

As Moffie said, some of these issues have been a topic of discussion here for a long time.

Oh, and Hal, regarding
Quote
They will be crotchety  too when they get to that bone-weary point of living with AIDS for a couple of decades. Hopefully they will never have to endure the emotional scarring of losing so many they loved. The spectre of your own death emphasised in "maybe this could be the final OI" over and over again. No treatment, no hope, no nothing. Every day suffocated under the black cloud of AIDS. Live in constant fear for twenty years and then get back to me.

Even after that you rarely hear a LTS say why me? We know why and we move forward with dignity, black humor, and an understanding of what our LTS sisters and brothers endured and continue to endure. For all we continue to go through as we age with this disease we present more of a positive attitude than any other group that populates the forums. We took our heads out of our asses a long time ago.

We didn't need to read the article, we live it.

Well said.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline joejoe1972

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2009, 01:55:19 PM »
Having just watched that almost self portrayal of a video just now, it scared the hell out of me. I to wondered why I was going threw the same problems as my very young mother(56). I was 19 when I got this disease, I will be 38 in Feb. I get more crap from older friends, when I say I'm feeling old. But I do, I had shingles at the same time as my grandmother last year.If it is getting this bad when I'm 38, whats going to happen when I start getting older and into the" normal problems" of just aging?

JoeJoe
Hiv+ since 1991, AIDS since 2001

Offline AlanBama

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2009, 03:43:10 PM »
Not sure how I missed this...guess I haven't been involved too much lately.   It is a full-time job for me nowadays to just keep myself going every day.   I fall into bed very exhausted at the end of the day.

AIDS has taken a very high toll from me over the past 23 years.

The reason for the negative comments from the one-pill-a-day'ers, is called DENIAL and FEAR.   They are afraid they might one day end up looking like I do, so it's easier to just deny it than face it.

I was asked to participate in a "focus group" concerning Alabama ADAP recently; in the discussions we had, the newly diagnosed seemed to be just as content and happy as a lark, getting their monthly one bottle of meds.

Those of us at the table who were 20+ years had a slightly different take on it....we know those drugs come at a very high cost, both literally and in the physical toll they take on us; we also know they came along way too late for so many of our loved ones.   Young folks sometimes have no idea how many deaths have occurred, in order for them to have the medical care they now enjoy.

I'm not wording this very well -- my mental fog and confusion, as usual.   I am very easily distracted these days, and have to write notes about everything.   I have an eye appt. tomorrow and I am afraid I may forget that by the time it rolls around....   My psychiatrist seems to think that all my problems are the result of the physical manifestations of depression....I think it's more than that.  Many years of taking toxic meds, etc.

Love and happy holidays to all my fellow LTSers.

Alan
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline joejoe1972

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2009, 05:49:28 PM »
I think you worded it very well. The newbies do not understand and cannot understand what it was like having an average of 25 friends die a year. That's just my friends, god knows how many with all of our friends gone. The newbies don't get what these drugs will do to them eventually, until they go threw it themselves. I wish I only had one bottle of pills, I have thirteen not including vitamins and herbs. This is our lot in life and all we can do is live to the best of our abilities.

JoeJoe
Hiv+ since 1991, AIDS since 2001

Offline BT65

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2009, 06:56:31 PM »
I am very easily distracted these days, and have to write notes about everything.   I have an eye appt. tomorrow and I am afraid I may forget that by the time it rolls around....   
Love and happy holidays to all my fellow LTSers.

Alan

Alan, you just described what I go through to a "T."  I write down notes a week in advance, and then every day, and I have to look at them throughout the day to remember what I have to do.  I'm so glad I'm not the only one. 

Happy holidays to you as well, my friend :-*
  Betty
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline joejoe1972

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2009, 07:12:16 PM »
You are not, I too have to right down everything. I often forget the post I was responding to. I have tablets all over the place and my appointment calender, which might as well be my bible as much as i have to follow what it says. For I cannot remember by myself self anymore. Its truly a terrible thing when we lose the ability to trust ourselves to get done what we have to get done.

JoeJoe
Hiv+ since 1991, AIDS since 2001

Offline aztecan

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2009, 09:57:36 AM »
I have a day planner, one of the old fashioned kind that you write appointments, etc., into.

It is my bible and my life buoy .

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline AlanBama

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2009, 01:03:20 PM »
My daytimer goes everywhere with me; to every appt., so I can write notes, etc.   Don't know what I'd do without it.   Partner and I are the only two people carrying one around at our clinic; kind of surprises me, you'd think more people would have one.   But I am still amazed at the number of people who don't keep a weekly pill box, so what do I know?  LOL

Hugs,

Alan
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline joejoe1972

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2009, 01:21:03 PM »
definitely have pill box and planner, don't know what I would do without either...LOL

Best Wishes,
JoeJOE
Hiv+ since 1991, AIDS since 2001

Offline leatherman

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2009, 02:13:46 PM »
My daytimer goes everywhere with me; to every appt., so I can write notes, etc.   Don't know what I'd do without it. 
I come from a family of list-makers, so maybe I haven't noticed anything because I've been making lists to remind me of everything since I was a kid. My Mom's dayplanner has been and forever shall be as important to her as if it were the actual holy word of god. LOL My life isn't so busy that I need a planner but I hardly ever go a day without a To-Do list ready.

I have tried to avoid the OCD complex of list making and just ventured out to the grocery store a couple of times. My problem there, I found out, is not really forgetting what I wanted to pick up; but having a germ-o-phobia panic attack start to creep up on me (have you ever listened to all the sick coughing hacking sneezing people in the grocery store no matter what time of year?!?!) that forces me to leave the store without all my items. At least, I don't just drop all my items and go willy-nilly running out of the store like I did in the past. ::) :D

Partner and I are the only two people carrying one around at our clinic; kind of surprises me, you'd think more people would have one.
Because I changed states recently, I've taken to carrying a zippered folder with ALL my documents, ID, utility bills, voter registration etc (anything these social services might conceivable need to get me signed up and verified for services). But I've always gone to the doctors (and nearly everywhere else too) with a book to read and a list. My doctor list always has the meds I'm taken, my last counts, and any issues/questions I have for the doc. Sometimes talking with the doc, the conversation can go astray, but I never leave without consulting the list to make sure ALL my issues are addressed each visit.

However, I have noticed with every doctor that I've seen that they are surprised by the list - and usually comment that no one else comes with a list. That surprises me. Of course, I can keep that information (meds, counts, questions) in my head; but by at least looking prepared and looking like I mean business about my healthcare, all these doctors have seemed to treat me more professionally and seemed to be more concerned because I was concerned.

Before I left Oh, I even had my doctor trained to ask if we had discussed everything on my list before I left, without me even having to mention it.  ;)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline joejoe1972

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2009, 03:19:40 PM »
Wow Mikie I hadn't really noticed it but I too make lots of list, have my whole life. Its like second nature to me. I do not go to the grocery store without a list or I would be helpless at trying to remember everything. And that willy nilly feeling is omg so true, I have had to stop myself from screaming as someone to cover their mouths. Several times I have left without anything or just a couple of things on my list. Its nice to know I'm not crazy. My mom will not go to Wal-mart with me, as several times I have very much spoken my mind. I wasn't rude necessarily, but I spoke my mind.

Best Wishes,
JoeJoe
Hiv+ since 1991, AIDS since 2001

Offline AndyArrow

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #41 on: December 19, 2009, 12:15:57 AM »
For each month I print out a calendar and put it right on my computer desk so I'll see all the appointments whenever I'm on here or paying bills.  I always carry a pen and note pad to all my appts.

I also have taken to writing my gym locker combination on each month (and put a note in my cell phone with the locker combo too)  Fortunately, I haven't forgotten the locker combo yet ... which is probably a good thing because I probably couldn't remember how to find the note pad in the cell phone  ::)
It is not the arrival that matters.  It is the journey along the way. -- Michel Montaigne

Offline bear60

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #42 on: December 19, 2009, 10:55:36 AM »
One of the more recent methods of paying bills: online banking and bill paying ........sure is making my life easier.  I can see all the activity on my checking account and pay bills.  Other bills are automatically deducted each month: insurance (auto and home), and home equity loan payments, and something elase I think but.....I just dont remember what. lol


Joel
Poz Bear Type in Philadelphia

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #43 on: December 19, 2009, 11:40:18 AM »
 I use online banking and Yahoo calender is great for setting birthday and doctor appointment reminders .

Offline darkerpozz

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #44 on: December 27, 2009, 05:51:00 AM »
Hello, I am somewhat new to the forums but  had to SHOUT ' thank you' to edfu  that article was awesome in showing and verifying what has been going on with me, it is one of the first times I read through an article and mentallly stayed on point al the way through.  I almost feel brilliant again, but I don't know if I will remember tomorrow what I read today but at leas at I am smiling again

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2010, 10:22:24 AM »
This is too long to copy/paste here but it relates to this NY Magazine article so most of you will find it interesting:

HIV Treatment Bulletin Volume 10 Number 11-12 November/December 2009: Aging, HIV infection and the immune system
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline leatherman

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2010, 12:06:14 AM »
thanks for that link Miss P
Quote
Untreated HIV infection has an even greater effect; a young individual with AIDS typically will have lost almost all their naive T cells and 20-50% of their memory CD8 T cells will be HIV-specific.
Quote
Will earlier initiation of antiretroviral therapy prevent accelerated aging? Long term follow-up from studies such as ACTG 384 clearly show that earlier suppression of HIV is associated with an almost complete normalization of many potentially important immune parameters including the CD4/ CD8 T cell ratio, the ratio of naive T cells to memory T cells and levels of immune activation. [4] In contrast, among individuals initiating therapy at lower CD4 T cell counts, these parameters improve but do not come close to mirroring those of uninfected individuals even after seven or more of continuous HIV suppression. This may suggest that people who start treatment earlier will be at less risk for accelerated aging, but this has not yet been established.

so my early untreated HIV (in my 20s) that mostly destroyed my immune system (and became teh aids in my early 30s), along with only one year in the last 15 with my HIV suppressed is causing me to age faster? There you go kiddies. Don't be afraid to start those meds a lot earlier than before landing in the hospital with an OI ;)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline darkerpozz

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #47 on: January 10, 2010, 12:23:38 AM »
Just a note to say I also have those those amazing moments of no coordination as I rise up out of bed and stumbled and grab so as not to face plant and i know that it HIV related not early morning fuzz

Offline aztecan

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #48 on: January 10, 2010, 06:17:36 PM »
I found that paragraph quite illuminating as well, Leather.

Quote
Chronic pathogens (that are controlled rather than cleared) play a particularly important role because they place a persistent drain on immune system resources, as indicated by the way that memory T cell responses to CMV accumulate over time, such that 25-30% of CD8 T cells can be CMV-specific in an infected elderly person. Untreated HIV infection has an even greater effect; a young individual with AIDS typically will have lost almost all their naive T cells and 20-50% of their memory CD8 T cells will be HIV-specific. As shown recently in a study of the MACS cohort, a fast accumulation of senescent CD8 T cells lacking the CD28 molecule is associated with rapid progression from HIV infection to AIDS. [3]

Those eschewing meds to avoid side effects should also consider this.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline lforsyth

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Re: Why a Number of HIV Patients Are Aging Faster
« Reply #49 on: January 26, 2010, 11:39:08 AM »
Yes, aging faster, myself now in 24 years positive and turned 60 last July.  Other studies that got to me was 'Loss of bone mass' and 'Positive men likely to have artery clogging'.  Five years ago I had to lose 8 bottom teeth because of receding jaw bone.  Christmass Eve (2009) I had a heart attack and a stent was interted. Of course both may or may not be related to having HIV or my meds but it's a bit scary.

I joke with co-workers that 2009 was just too damned boring, besides I wasn't sure what I was going to have for Christmas dinner.  The hospital served Prime Rib.

I just started back to full work days this week but I was a little miffed that a manager mentioned calling me at home to research system problems in the evening after having worked a full day.  I told him I couldn't access the systems from home.

Here's hoping that 2010 is a good year.
Tested POZ in 1986, knew there was something wrong in 1985. 04/2010 CD4: 975 Viral Load undetectable. Prezista, Norvir, Truvada, Acyclovir, Plavix, Lisinopril, Metoprolol and a bedtime snack of Lipitor (YUM)

 


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