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Author Topic: The Rub  (Read 4115 times)

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Offline MilesRules

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The Rub
« on: October 13, 2009, 05:00:25 AM »
I'm a hetero male and just visited a female prostitute in Las Vegas.  I told her that I was not interested in intercourse, just some form of touching / mutual masturbation.  So I was a little surprised when she got on top of me and started rubbing her vagina against my penis.  At the same time I was trying to push the head forward so it did not come in contact directly, thus it was mainly her rubbing on the shaft, although I think she started closer to the head.  I did not notice or feel any penetration, but the grinding was pretty intense and went on for a minute or two. I should have stopped sooner but I guess I got caught up in the moment.  Any thoughts on the risk?  I've heard low risk to no risk, but of course "low risk" can start to mess with your mind... 

Thank you.   

Offline Ann

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Re: The Rub
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2009, 07:29:38 AM »
Miles,

The rubbing you describe is called frottage, and frottage is NOT a risk for hiv infection.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline MilesRules

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Re: The Rub
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2009, 08:00:37 AM »
Thanks Ann. 

Kind of freaked me out, thinking about the vaginal fluids, etc.  It's not like I was exactly watching what was really going on down there.  A lot of things come to mind - fluids defying gravity, entering my urethra, etc. 

I do, however, happen to know pretty well when I'm having intercourse and that was not it - so no worries, eh?  Really?

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: The Rub
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2009, 08:33:57 AM »
Yes, REALLY. No cause for any concern for HIV transmission. Period.
Andy Velez

Offline MilesRules

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  • Posts: 13
Re: The Rub
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2009, 08:38:06 PM »
Thanks Andy.  I'll try to let it go - lot of "what ifs" at the moment. 
« Last Edit: October 13, 2009, 08:46:15 PM by MilesRules »

Offline MilesRules

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Re: The Rub
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2009, 08:54:41 AM »
Any logic in the fact that the woman I was with was quite small and petite and therefore her cervical fluids may be closer to the vaginal opening, meaning potentially more risky? 

Offline Ann

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Re: The Rub
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2009, 09:06:01 AM »
Miles,

No, you're really stretching there. There's no logic in that whatsoever.

You didn't have a risk. Get on with your life.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline MilesRules

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Re: The Rub
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2009, 05:18:30 PM »
so is it true that even if she was rubbing right on the head without my entering her (actual intercourse), there is no way for any transmission from her to me?  i was kind of surprised that she was doing it, as i thought at the time it seemed just as risky for her as it was for me and that she should know better.  perhaps she does. 

i know i'm probably getting on your nerves at this point - this paul e guy has me kind of freaked, to be perfectly honest. no doubt i should not be following his situation to closely, however one of his earlier scenarios included frottage as a possible means of infection. 

thanks again. 

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: The Rub
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2009, 05:41:17 PM »
How many times and ways do you have to be told that you didn't do anything that put you at risk?

Actually the only risk that you have here is getting yourself a Time Out if you continue to return again over this totally non-risk incident. If there was even the slightest doubt about what you have reported and any risk, we would have told you.

Cheers.
Andy Velez

Offline MilesRules

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Re: The Rub
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2009, 12:11:49 AM »
Thanks Andy.  Someone told me the woman that I saw was reported to be HIV positive - not making this up - it's what I was told, however I realize that it's hearsay.  How does anyone really know unless they are with the person when they are testing positive?   

If she is, does that change my risk in any way? 

Offline Ann

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Re: The Rub
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2009, 03:48:15 AM »
Miles,

When we give risk assessments, we assume the other person is hiv positive. So no, nothing you've added changes our assessment that you had no risk.

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through all three condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

ALTHOUGH YOU DO NOT NEED TO TEST OVER THIS FROTTAGE INCIDENT, anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

And by the way, if you read the Welcome Thread before posting like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:

Quote

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.


Please consider yourself warned.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline MilesRules

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Re: The Rub
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2009, 02:59:06 PM »
OK, thank you Ann, Andy.  You seem very confident and I'll take your advice to heart and move on. 

All the best. 

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: The Rub
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2009, 03:21:53 PM »
Moving on is a good plan on your part. 
Andy Velez

Offline MilesRules

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Re: The Rub
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2009, 01:54:36 PM »
I've been trying to put this behind me - honestly.  I have come back here a few times to read about risk and learn a little more.  Unfortunately, I read something today in the "tested positive" area that was pretty disturbing about a guy that claims he only had protected vaginal sex and oral three times in his life and ended up hiv positive.  I understand that this information can in no way be substantiated and there is certainly a possibility that the poster is leaving something out, but it sure does go against a lot of the advice here.  Can anyone explain this? 

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: The Rub
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2009, 04:11:29 PM »
Miles, there really isn't anything more for us to say about your non-risk incident. As long as you keep searching on the web to find material to feed your worst (and unfounded) fears you're going to find plenty to bother yourself with. It still won't change the basic facts of your incident which was one in which you were not at risk for HIV transmission.

I'm going to give you that 28 Time Out which Ann warned you was coming. Don't make the mistake of creating a new name to get around the time out, because we'll spot that and it will get you permanently banned from the site.

Stop with the drama and the trouble searching and just get on with your life. Happily HIV is not at this point an issue for you.
Andy Velez

Offline MilesRules

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  • Posts: 13
Re: The Rub
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2009, 10:40:16 AM »
One last question in relation to the above - is having genital herpes an increased risk for transmission in this case?  I was not having an outbreak, but heard that even without one there is an increased risk for HIV transmission. 

Meanwhile, I had an Oraquick test at 7 weeks which was negative. It was not only for this incident as I know it was too soon, just to check my status. 

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: The Rub
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2009, 11:03:02 AM »
There is a greater vulnerability to HIV transmission DURING a herpes outbreak. Otherwise not.

Your negative at 7 weeks is a virtual guarantee that you will continue to test negative.
Andy Velez

Offline MilesRules

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  • Posts: 13
Re: The Rub
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2009, 11:04:31 AM »
Increased transmission via Herpes including activities like frottage?
« Last Edit: December 18, 2009, 11:09:57 AM by MilesRules »

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: The Rub
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2009, 11:28:01 AM »
Miles,

Frottage is not a risk for hiv infection and genital herpes do not change that fact.

Your seven week negative result is not going to change as you did not have a risk for hiv infection.

Keep coming back over this NO RISK incident and you'll be given another time out.

Please consider yourself warned!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline MilesRules

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  • Posts: 13
Re: The Rub
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2009, 11:25:12 PM »
Ann, Andy - thanks very much for your time and insight.  I'll certainly not be coming back to you with this issue anymore.  

All the best.

Offline MilesRules

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Scratched Bug Bites
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2011, 08:38:43 PM »
Hi - I've been working in Asia and had visited a prostitute last night.  We did not have penetrative sex, only mainly me fingering her and her giving me a handjob.  A few days before that I had been bitten pretty badly by mosquitos on one leg and had been scratching the bites during my sexual encounter, and after looked at them closely and a few of them had been opened up.  I'm not sure but I may have been using the same hand that I was using to finger her to scratch my leg and may have transferred some of her vaginal fluids into the open bites.  Please assess the risk.  Thanks.   

Offline RapidRod

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Re: The Rub
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2011, 08:45:50 PM »
You never had a risk. HIV is unable to reproduce outside its living host (unlike many bacteria or fungi, which may do so under suitable conditions), except under laboratory conditions; therefore, it does not spread or maintain infectiousness outside its host.

Offline MilesRules

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  • Posts: 13
Re: The Rub
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2011, 09:32:30 PM »
Thanks Rod.  Not sure what you mean by laboratory conditions.  At some point HIV must be able to reproduce outside of it's host, because it is a communicable disease from one person to another (?). 


Offline Andy Velez

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Re: The Rub
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2011, 10:15:32 PM »
Under laboratory conditions is in reference when HIV is purposefully cultured for scientific purposes.

Keep things simple. It does not apply to you.
Andy Velez

Offline Ann

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Re: The Rub
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2011, 07:06:29 AM »
Miles,

Hiv is a fragile, difficult to transmit virus that is primarily transmitted INSIDE the human body, as in unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse where the virus never leaves the confines of the two bodies.

Once outside the body, small changes in temperature, and pH and moisture levels all quickly damage the virus and render it unable to infect.

This is why some vaginal fluid getting on your leg and/or mosquito bites is not going to infect you, not even if you were scratching the hell out of the bites with the same fingers you fingered with.

Please go back and re-read reply #10 in this thread. That's all you need to know in order to remain hiv negative - and the same advice in that reply applies to your new situation. You do NOT need to test over this incident.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!!!

Read through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use them with confidence.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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