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Author Topic: Will two AMGs Divide Us?  (Read 6100 times)

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Offline Dennis

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  • Posts: 781
Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« on: October 11, 2009, 09:26:37 AM »
To get an idea of how many people will not be attending an AMG in Europe due to the gathering in Vegas, I ask the following question.

How many from the U.S. have decided not to attend AMG London ONLY because there will be a gathering in Vegas.

Again...If you could afford to attend AMG London, you have decided not to. You would prefer to go to a gathering in Vegas.

Also, let us know if you plan on trying to attend both gatherings, whether you are from Europe or North America.

Offline Wagner

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2009, 10:11:22 AM »
Perhaps a better question would be:  How many have made the decision not to go to London because of the expense?

A statement that holds no validity anymore.  With effort, London can be as cheap or as expensive as you would like.

Offline Dennis

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2009, 10:25:17 AM »
I think by reading posts in other threads, it has been stated on more than one occassion that expense is already an issue for most coming from the U.S. So why would I ask a question I already know the answer to?

Plain and simple...most cannot afford a trip to Europe,which they have already stated. I think they know their own finances better than you or I.

Perhaps a better question would be:  How many have made the decision not to go to London because of the expense?

A statement that holds no validity anymore.  With effort, London can be as cheap or as expensive as you would like.

Offline bocker3

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2009, 10:58:28 AM »
Perhaps a better question would be:  How many have made the decision not to go to London because of the expense?

A statement that holds no validity anymore.  With effort, London can be as cheap or as expensive as you would like.

So, where are you located -- North America or Europe?  Why do you have your panties tied into such a knot over this?

You know how many came to Boston from Europe this year?  ZERO.  Why?  I'm guessing a combination of finances and the US HIV ban.  Rather than have no chance of attending a gathering in 2010, there are a number of folks who want to put one together in the US -- this should be applauded.  AIDSmeds is a SUPPORT forum.

Maybe a better question to ask is:  How many who voted for London, intend on attending London?  and/or How many who voted for London now plan on attending Vegas instead?  While we are at it -- How many who did NOT vote for London, plan on attending London?

I'll tell you, depending on final details, I intend to attend BOTH.

Mike
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 11:00:46 AM by bocker3 »
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Offline GNYC09

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2009, 11:06:47 AM »
I would like to attend both if possible.  It really depends on when they're held more than anything else.

As for the statement that London being as cheap or as expensive as you'd like - I've been to both London and Vegas (frequently) and, no, London has not ever been cheaper than Vegas (and I'm not only referring to accommodations).  The only exception is when the U.S. Dollar is stronger than the British Pound - and how often does that happen?

Online mecch

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2009, 11:12:37 AM »
London is expensive but only if you do yuppie stuff.  Hotel will be expensive, but not more than New York. Ethnic restaurants are cheap.
Did it ever occur to anyone to have an AMG in a small town?? With good sports or beautiful nature, etc.  Maybe I'll propose, next year.  Off season beach town in Florida for example.   Little progressive towns all over the map. Etc.  Or maybe we could get a corporate sponsor and go to the Vineyard or PTown in season.
I've really had some of my best conversations away from big-city distractions.  Hiking or making communal dinners, or sitting around a barbecue.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline leatherman

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2009, 12:35:49 PM »
as a dirt poor American who's been living on barely $500 a month disability payments for the last three years, personally, I always get a kick out of watching the bickering that goes on about these AM gathering. :D Such silliness. But more to your question, don't you realize that AMGs have already divided up the members in these forums?

It took every dime I had for two months (and money contributions from some of my family members) to get me moved back home from Cleveland to SC now that my partner Jim is dead and buried. I was too poor to even keep our home and have come home to live with my mom. I bring up Jim because it was through loving contributions from people right here in these forums that I even had the money to pay for Jim's cremation and retrieve his ashes. :o Without that help, not to mention all the advice, support and comfort from members :-*, I guess Jim would still be sitting in a box on a shelf at the crematorium until either money fell from heaven for me to pay off the bill or until they decided to throw him out in the trash since no one picked up his remains. :'(

Can you imagine how wonderful it would be to be able to actually, in person, meet those people who donated their money and support to me, so that I could hug them and tell them just how much their help meant to me and my sanity? :-*  :-* Yet, as I mentioned in that voting thread, if AMG isn't held somewhere close enough for me then I won't be able to attend - because I'm just that poor! (Oh and since I'm not near Cleveland anymore, I'd like to change my vote to Charlotte NC  :D ;D)

That's what happens when you have to close up your pet store, your partner dies from AIDS and then you get hospitalized and nearly die from AIDS by 34 yrs old. You become horribly poor and sometimes wonder where food will come from or how to keep the power on. (Much less an internet connection to use to even be chatting in these forums ;) ) What I wouldn't give to have a life that even allowed me the luxury of considering whether a trip to London or Vegas would be possible. HA! I already gave up my cars, two homes, and two lovers but my life and finances keep going down and not up with every year that (Thankfully!) I get older. Yet there are still thousands and thousands more people with HIV and AIDS that are living in poverty even worse than my situation.

Will this annual AMG argument divide us up? No more than these forums are already divided by the AMGs into the small group that can afford to attend such a gathering and the vast majority that doesn't even consider such a luxury as traveling to other continents since housing, food, and med costs are more important in their life.

I wish you all well on wherever an AMG is held, and also hope that one day it'll be held close enough to me that I might be able to attend. ;) :D Until then I just wish that someone would start posting a damn thread here with pictures every year. It gets talked and talked about for months, yet most of the pictures and memories are kept tight under wraps hordered away and never shared with the rest of us. Why supposedly Jim was going to be mentioned in the memorial at this past event (I was told that my Randy was several years ago) yet I've never seen a single picture from this past event, and only a handful from any of the previous AMGs.

Now that's how the AMG (and AIDS itself) already divides us up. ;) and that's why I sadly chuckle at the bickering. It's such a sad shame to argue over such a wonderful privelege of having AIDS not destroy your life, your health and your finances so much that you can even contemplate traveling out of your own city. I'll trade my problems with your problems of which city to travel to any day. ;)

loving you all, :-* and wishing and hoping that one day we could ALL meet one another,
mikie
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline weasel

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2009, 03:22:55 PM »
I do NOT   fly !

  I have  been to   Italy  , Spain    and  France   etc.

   I no longer can endure  the long flights !

  Nor  can  I afford  the money  to do so !

  I would rather get to go to  Las Vegas  and still be able to HELP  Someone else to  go also !

   TWO  EVENTS WILL NOT SPLIT  AIDS MED  APPART !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


                                 My two Cents

                                                         Carl
" Live and let Live "

Offline Robert

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2009, 06:29:51 PM »

Depending on the time of year, I'm planning to go to London.  Jun, Jul, Aug is expensive ($1279+ from SFO).  Oct. is $878.  A significant difference. 

If we decide on the summer months, then I'll have to think twice. (I'll be turning to Cliff for my drink chits.)

I am not going to Las Vegas regardless of what happens in London. 

robert
..........

Offline Dennis

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2009, 08:37:18 PM »
So far noone has stated that they have ruled out attending AMG in London simply because there will be a competing event in Las Vegas.

Just saying...

Offline David_CA

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2009, 09:50:25 PM »
Perhaps a better question would be:  How many have made the decision not to go to London because of the expense?

A statement that holds no validity anymore.  With effort, London can be as cheap or as expensive as you would like.

What are you talking about?  Where can I get a nice hotel room in London for less than $50 a night?  Can I fly there for less than $250 r/t taxes, etc included?  It would be more accurate to say that for those who live in the UK or Europe, London can be affordable.  It is ludicrous to say that it can be "... as cheap or as expensive as you would like."

London is expensive but only if you do yuppie stuff.  Hotel will be expensive, but not more than New York. Ethnic restaurants are cheap.
Did it ever occur to anyone to have an AMG in a small town?? With good sports or beautiful nature, etc.  Maybe I'll propose, next year.  Off season beach town in Florida for example.   Little progressive towns all over the map. Etc.  Or maybe we could get a corporate sponsor and go to the Vineyard or PTown in season.

New York wasn't a choice to vote on, so that's a bit irrelevant.  It has occurred to many of us to have an AMG in a small town.  It was never pursued due to logistics (and other reasons). 

So far noone has stated that they have ruled out attending AMG in London simply because there will be a competing event in Las Vegas.

Just saying...

No, Dennis, we (David, Bonnie, and I) are not ruling out London because of Las Vegas.  We ruled out London due to cost.

One thing that I find ironic is that some folks voted for London and say they are planning on attending.  Some of these same people mention having financial troubles.  Sure, they are entitled to a vote, but it seems a bit odd to vote for the most expensive destination when they 1) really have no intention of going  2) voted to be contrary  3) exaggerated when they discussed their financial situation previously  4) plan on relying on a grant (which seems to be a bit inconsiderate considering their choice) or  5) are not being realistic and are choosing where they'd like to go without thinking about whether or not they'll be able to at all.

For the record, I suggested more than once that some of those in other locations (Europe mainly) pursue organizing a gathering in addition to AMG.  None of those who complained about not having one outside of North America put forth any effort to do so.  Several members have suggested having two AMG's for years.  No, having two AMG's (or one AMG and another 'gathering' of whatever name it's given) won't divide us, as some fear.  I think it'll do just the opposite.  It'll enable more folks to attend a gathering of other HIV+ people.  It will keep up interest for an AMG wherever it's held. 

   
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline AndyArrow

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2009, 02:59:27 PM »
London is my favourite (spelling nod to the Brits) in the world, but I voted for Chicago, then New Orleans  >:( due to expense.  At this point depending on timing and other logistics Vegas might be a possibility but on a fixed income London is out of the question.

My point being is that I think the answer to your question Dennis is no one!  I wait to be proven wrong.  :D
It is not the arrival that matters.  It is the journey along the way. -- Michel Montaigne

Offline Wagner

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2009, 03:14:57 AM »
What are you talking about?  Where can I get a nice hotel room in London for less than $50 a night?  Can I fly there for less than $250 r/t taxes, etc included?  It would be more accurate to say that for those who live in the UK or Europe, London can be affordable.  It is ludicrous to say that it can be "... as cheap or as expensive as you would like."

Where can you get a 'nice' hotel room anywhere for less than $50??  I suppose that's a subjective question however.

Have you looked at charter flights that fly between NYC and LHR for example? 

Have you noticed the strength of the dollar against the pound? 

And as for being 'ludicrous' there are millions over here that live on £60/week.  It isn't easy I grant you but restaurants are numerous, museums/galleries are FREE and walking becomes a pleasure for it's on the streets where London comes alive.  You need to get out more

New York wasn't a choice to vote on, so that's a bit irrelevant.  It has occurred to many of us to have an AMG in a small town.  It was never pursued due to logistics (and other reasons). 

No, Dennis, we (David, Bonnie, and I) are not ruling out London because of Las Vegas.  We ruled out London due to cost.

One thing that I find ironic is that some folks voted for London and say they are planning on attending.  Some of these same people mention having financial troubles.  Sure, they are entitled to a vote, but it seems a bit odd to vote for the most expensive destination when they 1) really have no intention of going  2) voted to be contrary  3) exaggerated when they discussed their financial situation previously  4) plan on relying on a grant (which seems to be a bit inconsiderate considering their choice) or  5) are not being realistic and are choosing where they'd like to go without thinking about whether or not they'll be able to at all.

For the record, I suggested more than once that some of those in other locations (Europe mainly) pursue organizing a gathering in addition to AMG.  None of those who complained about not having one outside of North America put forth any effort to do so.  Several members have suggested having two AMG's for years.  No, having two AMG's (or one AMG and another 'gathering' of whatever name it's given) won't divide us, as some fear.  I think it'll do just the opposite.  It'll enable more folks to attend a gathering of other HIV+ people.  It will keep up interest for an AMG wherever it's held. 

   

Offline David_CA

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2009, 03:44:19 PM »
Where can you get a 'nice' hotel room anywhere for less than $50??  I suppose that's a subjective question however.

Have you looked at charter flights that fly between NYC and LHR for example?

Have you noticed the strength of the dollar against the pound?

And as for being 'ludicrous' there are millions over here that live on £60/week.  It isn't easy I grant you but restaurants are numerous, museums/galleries are FREE and walking becomes a pleasure for it's on the streets where London comes alive.  You need to get out more

A little mastery of forum posting would have made your post easier to read!  

As to where nice rooms can be had for less than $50, you obviously haven't been keeping up.  Vegas, baby!  Dennis and I have both posted links to very nice hotels both on the strip and downtown that have rooms for less than $50 per night.

People are living on £60 per week?  I'm sure they are, but are they staying in hotels and eating in restaurants every meal?  I think £60 would possibly cover a relatively cheap hotel room and a couple meals out for one day.  
« Last Edit: October 18, 2009, 04:15:50 PM by David_NC »
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Dennis

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2009, 04:15:00 PM »
And it's because of the fact that people are living on £60 per week that we have always recommended that those in Europe hold an AMG closer to home.

Likewise, there are many of our friends here in North American living on the equivalent of £60 per week in the U.S. So, while I'm sure they appreciate the generosity of free museum admissions and leisurly city strolls, I still don't think it is quite financially feasible to afford a European vacation; even on a chartered flight (if such a thing still exists).

If cost was NOT a major factor, I think we would have seen more of our European friends attend AMG the past 6 years.

A little master of forum posting would have made your post easier to read!  

As to where nice rooms can be had for less than $50, you obviously haven't been keeping up.  Vegas, baby!  Dennis and I have both posted links to very nice hotels both on the strip and downtown that have rooms for less than $50 per night.

People are living on £60 per week?  I'm sure they are, but are they staying in hotels and eating in restaurants every meal?  I think £60 would possibly cover a relatively cheap hotel room and a couple meals out for one day.  


Offline Dachshund

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2009, 04:36:41 PM »
The main complaint from our European brothers and sisters has always been HIV travel restrictions to the U.S. and not the cost. If I recall there was a decent amount of Europeans who made the trip to San Francisco. Just another straw man argument to justify two AMG's.

Offline Dennis

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2009, 04:50:17 PM »
The HIV ban is a dead arguement, in my opinion. Many of those same members who came to San Francisco in 2007 also came back and refuted any further involvement in a U.S based AMG due the HIV ban. So what made them stray away from their principles in 2007?

I also ask, where were our European friends the years AMG was held in Canada and Mexico City? No travel bans there! In fact, out of 6 AMGs, only 2 have been held in the U.S. And guess which AMG had the most attendance by Europeans? San Francisco.  Go figure!


The main complaint from our European brothers and sisters has always been HIV travel restrictions to the U.S. and not the cost. If I recall there was a decent amount of Europeans who made the trip to San Francisco. Just another straw man argument to justify two AMG's.

Offline David_CA

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2009, 04:58:27 PM »
The main complaint from our European brothers and sisters has always been HIV travel restrictions to the U.S. and not the cost. If I recall there was a decent amount of Europeans who made the trip to San Francisco. Just another straw man argument to justify two AMG's.

I believe there was one European in Montreal (with no HIV travel restriction).  There were four that attended in San Francisco, if I'm not mistaken.  I don't believe there were any in Mexico City (also with no HIV travel restriction) or Boston. 

I have always suggested that folks get together and have gathering where they, and as many others as possible, can attend.  I've been saying this since 2006 when we went to Montreal.  I've also suggested two AMG's - one in the US and one in Europe.  I believe that Herman organized a small gathering a couple of years ago (in Europe), but I don't recall the details.  I know there have been a couple here in the US, too. 

Honestly, I don't know how not having the budget for travel to Europe while one of us is unemployed relates to 'Just another straw man argument to justify two AMG's,' if at all.  I'll put it this way; if somebody wants to pay for us to attend the AMG in London, I'll go.  If not, I'll attend something that we put together ourselves in Vegas.  Believe me, I'd much rather go to London; I've always wanted to visit there and have been to Vegas five times in the past.
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline David_CA

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2009, 05:03:39 PM »
The HIV ban is a dead arguement, in my opinion. Many of those same members who came to San Francisco in 2007 also came back and refuted any further involvement in a U.S based AMG due the HIV ban. So what made them stray away from their principles in 2007?

I also ask, where were our European friends the years AMG was held in Canada and Mexico City? No travel bans there! In fact, out of 6 AMGs, only 2 have been held in the U.S. And guess which AMG had the most attendance by Europeans? San Francisco.  Go figure!

We had quite a nice amount to work with, in terms of grants, in San Francisco.  We were even able to assist a UK member to attend.  Of those who attended in SF from Europe, one wasn't on meds (somewhat lessens the 'risk' of US travel), one visits the US on a fairly regular basis, one never mentioned it being an issue, as I recall, and I don't remember the particulars of the fourth.  We actually did have one non-US and non-European attendee, but it didn't appear to be a big enough issue to keep this member away, either.
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
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05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
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Offline Dachshund

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2009, 05:07:04 PM »
The HIV ban is a dead arguement, in my opinion. Many of those same members who came to San Francisco in 2007 also came back and refuted any further involvement in a U.S based AMG due the HIV ban. So what made them stray away from their principles in 2007?

I also ask, where were our European friends the years AMG was held in Canada and Mexico City? No travel bans there! In fact, out of 6 AMGs, only 2 have been held in the U.S. And guess which AMG had the most attendance by Europeans? San Francisco.  Go figure!



You said it was cost, I said it was the travel ban to which you now seem to agree. Look people should be honest and quit making excuses. There was always going to be a North American AMG (which I think is fine) and there will always be a North American AMG as long as there is one. Londan AMG is moving ahead and I'm sure Vegas will too. Time to move on.

Offline Dennis

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2009, 05:18:44 PM »
No. I don't agree.

If the travel ban was the reason for people not attending an AMG in North America, then there would have been more in attendance in Montreal, Toronto, and Mexico City where there is no travel ban.

In fact, I think we had such a large European prescense in San Francisco because the grants committee did so well that year.

So lets look at this again. A U.S. based AMG had the largest European prescense, despite the HIV travel ban, during a year the Grants Committee raised the most money since a GC was formed. Hmmm? Makes you wonder. Are our friends from Europe NOT traveling to North America for AMG because of the travel ban or cost? I say cost.

We can argue this point until we're blue in the face. However, the statistics of past AMG attendance cannot be disputed.

You said it was cost, I said it was the travel ban to which you now seem to agree. Look people should be honest and quit making excuses. There was always going to be a North American AMG (which I think is fine) and there will always be a North American AMG as long as there is one. Londan AMG is moving ahead and I'm sure Vegas will too. Time to move on.

Offline Cliff

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2009, 05:27:29 PM »
With AMG being held in North America, it was never likely that it would have a large non-US following.  I'm sure geographic location, the US policy on HIV travel, cost and timing were all a factor to varying degrees.  

No matter where AMG is located (even if it's held in the US) someone, well actually a fair chunk of us, will be unable to attend.

AMG has always been pretty accommodating. When people complained about the US HIV travel ban, the event was held in Canada and Mexico. When people complained about it never being in the US, it was held in the US. Choices of hotels were always based on a reasonable amount participants could afford and the Grant Committee was established to help those who could not.  I don't think London will be any different. We will do our best to find reasonable accommodation and airfare. Do I expect the same proportion of US residents to Non-residents in London as was in previous location? Absolutely not. However, I would be disappointed if we couldn't convince a handful of previous attendees to make the trek overseas.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2009, 05:32:13 PM by Cliff »

Offline Dennis

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2009, 07:04:07 PM »
...I don't think London will be any different. We will do our best to find reasonable accommodation and airfare. Do I expect the same proportion of US residents to Non-residents in London as was in previous location? Absolutely not. However, I would be disappointed if we couldn't convince a handful of previous attendees to make the trek overseas.

Exactly! Therefore, a competing gathering in North America will not affect the attendance in London. Just as if there had been a competing event in Europe in years past, it would not have affected the North American AMGs.

The handfull of North Americans that do or do not make the trek to London next year is not going to make or break the attendance at AMG London or the Las Vegas gathering.

Unfortunately, there are enough of us on each side of the pond experiencing this condition to warrant a gathering on each continent.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2009, 07:06:20 PM by Dennis »

Offline bocker3

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2009, 09:14:29 PM »
Hey guys,

Look, this thread had died and then a misanthrope came in and stirred it up again.  Let's not do another round here.

London is moving along -- there seems to be a fair amount of interest from the US.  Once some details are more nailed down (like time and hotel), we'll be better able to judge.  However, it is happening -- and so many from Europe who couldn't or didn't want to attend in North America will now get to experience this wonderful event.

For those that can't make London, Vegas will get pulled together in the near future.

For now, let's just stop this unwinnable back and forth.  It's pretty pointless and has nothing to do with the spirit of AMG.
Let's do what we need to make the London AMG successful and then take care of the Vegas event.

Hugs,
Mike
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Offline fearless

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2009, 09:56:46 PM »
Having stood back and just observed, the real issue is not who/who didn't attended which AMG for which reason.

The real issue is that a vote was taken and London was the chosen destination. However, instead of all the energy and resources being directed toward making London happen a lot of energy is being wasted undermining the AMG and bickering amongst yourselves.

Not everyone will be able to attend in London, that happens every year, but it should be the one and only AMG.

Those who wish to meet up elsewhere, closer to home, should at least have the common decency to give it a rest for a while and let the planning and work for London get well underway. Stop the petty arguments and stop trying to undermine it.
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline bocker3

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2009, 10:23:56 PM »
Those who wish to meet up elsewhere, closer to home, should at least have the common decency to give it a rest for a while and let the planning and work for London get well underway. Stop the petty arguments and stop trying to undermine it.

This is exactly what is happening -- London is moving along, quite well, I'd say. 

Personally, I wish a moderator would come and lock this thread down.  Nothing good has come or will come of it.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
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Offline Robert

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2009, 10:27:43 PM »

Quote
Look, this thread had died and then a misanthrope came in and stirred it up again.  Let's not do another round here.

Yeah I thought we put this to bed a long time ago.

Give it a rest, folks.  We're going to London~

robert

..........

Offline Dennis

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2009, 10:29:12 PM »
I really have to lol at this one. A certain few from Europe didn't seem to take your advice that you're giving here when AMG was voted for and held in North America. I clearly remember all the bickering for 2 or 3 years straight. Now that the tables are turned, we should all just step back and shut up?

Anyways, I believe it was one of your European counterparts that resurfaced the topic.

I managed to coordinate 3 AMGs amongst constant bickering from both Europeans and North Americans. Trust me, I'm sure this itty bitty thread isn't hindering any progress being made in the background. Nor will it affect the final outcome almost a year from now.

 
Having stood back and just observed, the real issue is not who/who didn't attended which AMG for which reason.

The real issue is that a vote was taken and London was the chosen destination. However, instead of all the energy and resources being directed toward making London happen a lot of energy is being wasted undermining the AMG and bickering amongst yourselves.

Not everyone will be able to attend in London, that happens every year, but it should be the one and only AMG.

Those who wish to meet up elsewhere, closer to home, should at least have the common decency to give it a rest for a while and let the planning and work for London get well underway. Stop the petty arguments and stop trying to undermine it.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2009, 10:58:01 PM »

I managed to coordinate 3 AMGs amongst constant bickering from both Europeans and North Americans. Trust me, I'm sure this itty bitty thread isn't hindering any progress being made in the background. Nor will it affect the final outcome almost a year from now.

You know when you think about it the reason is pretty simple.  It's not the people here, two AMG's, travel bans, hotel costs, or anything....  No, the real reason is this big body of water called the Atlantic Ocean...  well in Jan's case it would be the Indian Ocean or perhaps even the Pacific Ocean depending on where it's being held. 

Which ever event you attend I hope everyone has a great time.....


I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline anniebc

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Re: Will two AMGs Divide Us?
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2009, 11:13:33 PM »
Ok everyone I think it's time for a lock down so we can concentrate on the Official AMG..London.

Things seem to be moving along nicely now without this thread getting in the way, keep up the good work and lets get organised.

Hugs
Jan :-*
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