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Author Topic: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???  (Read 14591 times)

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Offline poz_hiv_bruh

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Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« on: October 07, 2009, 08:59:56 AM »
So I've been upfront when meeting someone new that I'm HIV+ and up until recently, I haven't had any issues.  Well recently I told this guy I was and he told SEVERAL people about my status and it's starting to spread like wild fire!  So many people don't disclose thier status which I always thought was wrong, but now I'm start to actually understand why they don't.

How can people expect you to be upfront if they are going to be so malicious about your status?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 09:13:37 AM by poz_hiv_bruh »

Offline BlueMoon

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2009, 12:23:27 PM »
What you did was right.  What the other guy did was wrong.
...................VL.....CD4.....%
-----------------------------------------
08/10-- ......<40.....290.....42
05/10-- ......<48.....290.....46
02/10-- ......<48.....481.....44
10/09-- ......<48.....277.....46
07/09-- ......<48.....300.....38
05/09-- ........51.....449.....39
03/09-- Added Isentress
02/09-- ........65.....299.....34
11/08-- ........62.....242.....40
08/08-- ........66.....212.....29
05/08-- ......202.....217.....27
03/08-- ....5210.....187.....21
02/08-- Began Truvada/Reyataz/Norvir
12/07-- 273,000.....157.....22
11/07-- 229,000.....209.....22
10/07-- Diagnosis

It's a complex world.

Offline melloyellow

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2009, 02:10:25 PM »
I feel the same way as you. I wouldn't feel right having sex with someone if I don't tell them that
I am HIV+. They will have decide if they want to have sex with me or not.

The person is a ass hole..

Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2009, 03:15:11 PM »
Yeah, I feel your pain but mine was worse, it was my own family putting my status out there.
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline madbrain

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2009, 03:23:24 PM »
Yeah, I feel your pain but mine was worse, it was my own family putting my status out there.

My father also told everyone on his side of the family about it after I broke the news to him, which was about a month after my diagnosis, and over the phone, since we live about 6000 miles apart. I was somewhat surprised that he would do that.
I never confronted him about it. I'm not sure that it would have been easier for me to disclose it individually to the rest of the family, which I would have done anyway, in time.
I don't think it was anything malicious on his part, rather, he just didn't know how to cope with this news alone.
My mother on the other hand kept her mouth shut. I recently disclosed to her sister during a trip to France last month.

Offline madbrain

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2009, 03:33:42 PM »
So I've been upfront when meeting someone new that I'm HIV+ and up until recently, I haven't had any issues.  Well recently I told this guy I was and he told SEVERAL people about my status and it's starting to spread like wild fire!  So many people don't disclose thier status which I always thought was wrong, but now I'm start to actually understand why they don't.

How can people expect you to be upfront if they are going to be so malicious about your status?

Sorry about the previous thread digression about family disclosure. You did the right thing in disclosing your status to this guy. What he did after that was not under your control. Realize that information wants to be free and you can't control it. Disclosure is not something you can take back, as you found out. I think the answer is not to be ashamed of your status. If someone else has a problem with it, well, it's really their problem, not yours.

Offline AlanBama

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2009, 03:41:46 PM »
I think it's best to disclose, not only for the other person, but for your own protection.  All these fools whose ads say "will bareback with neg bottoms" -- pu-lease.  You know they're probably poz, or for sure going to end up that way.  You just don't want them to be able to accuse YOU of getting them there.
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline next2u

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2009, 01:32:40 AM »
that guy was a ginormous asshole.

back to your question. disclosure is up to you. while i admire your policy i dont believe that disclosure is necessary in all situations.

best,
d
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2009, 01:42:46 AM »



   
Disclosure is not something you can take back, as you found out. I think the answer is not to be ashamed of your status. If someone else has a problem with it, well, it's really their problem, not yours.


  So true!!!   
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline dtwpuck

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2009, 06:34:23 AM »
That guy is an asshole.  But, one of the suckiest things about being poz is that you are both morally and legally obligated to disclose your status to anyone with whom you have sex.  This includes safe sex. 

It sucks, but it's the way it is.  The only way I know how to deal with it is to take control of the information yourself.  Rather than letting it be gossip, let it be just one more fact about you.  A lot of poz people, rightly so, have a lot of anxiety about stigma, rejection, etc etc etc.  These things are going to happen.   

Remember, other people are always going to talk about you.  Realize that you will never be able to control it.  But, you can control how YOU tell people.    Yes, you are going to be rejected.  And, yes, it will hurt sometimes.  There is no magic way to grow a thicker skin or an "I don't give a fuck" attitude.  But, somewhere, inside, you're going to need to either figure out a way to do it, or stick with doing other poz guys, or just hide and be unhappy.  The word always gets out.  It's going to be the same story.  It's always going to hurt in the same way.  And the rules are always the same. 

Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Offline dixieman

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2009, 01:57:53 PM »
Hey ... you did the right thing in telling a potential sex partner... and this person is a Jackass... I know a person who was going around telling everyone elses buisness about a hookup they had about their status of being hiv+ in town... This person thought I would be shocked but, all I said was... are you their doctor and asked if this man who was hiv+ was cute? and since he did not want to trick with him could he give me his number!  Well that floored this queen... I told the gossip at least he was man enough he had a disease ... oh and have youve been checked? or are you just going by prayer everytime you pick up a trick... Damn... I never did get the number... figures?

Offline mecch

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2009, 02:17:22 PM »
Of course you do not in all situations. Depends on several factors.

Sorry to offer the contrary opinion, or to open this to a old argument.
Please check YOUR state's laws as to disclosure of HIV status before a sex act.
Also, check YOUR state's laws about HIV transmission.

If there are no laws saying you have to disclose, then you do not have to disclose.  If you transmit, it might be a crime, sometimes if you disclose, sometimes if you dont.

Those who say you are morally obliged to disclose, based on what code of morals, please?

Its a good idea to disclose.  Maybe its your moral code, so stick to it.

The guy who spread the news was a jerk.

On the other hand, lets take a "hook up" just for sex.  Or a place where people meet for sex, not cocktails and a potential boyfriend.  Sex club. Park, etc.

In my book, if you are having safe sex in such as situation, you are not obliged to disclose. On the other hand, if a guy asks you, even in such a situation, in my book, I would disclose, since you were asked. Or, just say, "none of your business" and stop having sex with the person, or don't start.  Leaves them in doubt - and you have confirmed nothing.

Disclosing in the above sex situations seems even less "morally" obligatory if you are on HAART and undetectable.   But, this may, or may not, be LEGALLY advisable, so check it out where you live, or screw around.

Voila. can of worms.

« Last Edit: October 08, 2009, 02:20:18 PM by mecch »
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline dtwpuck

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2009, 05:45:53 PM »
Prompted by Mecch's post.  I just did some research.  Interestingly, in most states, unauthorized disclosure of HIV status is also illegal.  Telling another person that someone is poz is often something that can be the subject of a lawsuit.  It is not limited to just healthcare providers.   I didn't know that.

However, if there is a state that doesn't have an hiv disclosure law, I haven't found it yet.   (I've only checked 14)  I can't find any comprehensive list.  But it does seem that the most draconian ones are Florida, Michigan and Texas.    To date, there have been approximately 300 cases in the US ranging from misdemeanor to manslaughter.  There's quite a range.    Although, I haven't found one yet where the law states that it is ok not to disclose.  Many states don't have an hiv specific law, but rather just a law that includes willful exposure to a communicable disease being considered assault at best, and attempted murder at worst.

I suppose stating that it is a moral obligation could be a gray area where two reasonable people could disagree.   Although it strikes me as wishful thinking that it would be OK not to tell a sex partner all of the information.    I certainly would not want to be caught in the situation where an infection occured as the result of non-disclosure.   It's just not that important to get off.  And, it's just not that difficult to find people who are ok with poz partners, especially when you're talking about casual sex. 

so, poz-bruh.... maybe you live in a state where you can sue.  Good luck with that.
Meech... thanks for pointing out that it's not so unilateral, at least in the US.  I doubt that wilful non-disclosure would go unpunished, though, if tested in any US state.



Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Offline mecch

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2009, 05:57:23 PM »
Prompted by Mecch's post.  I just did some research.  Interestingly, in most states, unauthorized disclosure of HIV status is also illegal.  Telling another person that someone is poz is often something that can be the subject of a lawsuit.  It is not limited to just healthcare providers.   I didn't know that.

However, if there is a state that doesn't have an hiv disclosure law, I haven't found it yet.   (I've only checked 14)  I can't find any comprehensive list.  But it does seem that the most draconian ones are Florida, Michigan and Texas.    To date, there have been approximately 300 cases in the US ranging from misdemeanor to manslaughter.  There's quite a range.    Although, I haven't found one yet where the law states that it is ok not to disclose.  Many states don't have an hiv specific law, but rather just a law that includes willful exposure to a communicable disease being considered assault at best, and attempted murder at worst.

I suppose stating that it is a moral obligation could be a gray area where two reasonable people could disagree.   Although it strikes me as wishful thinking that it would be OK not to tell a sex partner all of the information.    I certainly would not want to be caught in the situation where an infection occured as the result of non-disclosure.   It's just not that important to get off.  And, it's just not that difficult to find people who are ok with poz partners, especially when you're talking about casual sex.  

so, poz-bruh.... maybe you live in a state where you can sue.  Good luck with that.
Meech... thanks for pointing out that it's not so unilateral, at least in the US.  I doubt that wilful non-disclosure would go unpunished, though, if tested in any US state.

Your survey is extremely incomplete. The best method is to check with a local AIDS service organisation or gay rights group or health department.  New York State law is extremely imprecise.  IF there has never been a prosecution in NYS for sex without disclosure, why would it be legally prohibited now?  I think there are states where transmission is the big no no. In other states, non disclosure itself is a no no.
From the law, as written, to enforcement is another matter to consider.

I am not an expert.

I don't even live in the USA, but I am a citizen.

In 25 years of fun and games, I can count on one hand the number of guys who have spontaneously disclosed in a sex only situation.

If you personally think it is wrong to not disclose, go ahead and stick to your principals.  But there may not be a legal imperative depending on what country or state you live in. Also, increasingly, depending on whether you are undetectable or not.  Sorry, that is the messy reality.

ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline dtwpuck

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2009, 07:27:08 PM »
Mecch, I completely agree that the reality is messy.  Truthfully, I can't say I really can remember that many people disclosing to me before I disclosed the them.  But, that had a lot to do with the fact that I've always been very public about my status.  So, for me it's skewed.   But, at least during the years that I was a complete whore, I never really had that much difficulty.   Men are pigs. 

Anyway, some states don't have hiv specific laws but a long history of treating hiv as a lethal weapon.  So the list at thebody.com is a bit misleading.  Although, otherwise your postings are extremely informative.  Thanks for posting.   It sounds like Mass is the place to live. 

I still stand by my assertion that it is wrong to disclose.  I just can't find any moral justification for not doing so.   Ethics are, ultimately, subjective.   There are many good, reasonable people who disagree with me.
Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Offline Basquo

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2009, 09:22:48 PM »
But it does seem that the most draconian ones are Florida, Michigan and Texas.   

Texas has "draconian" laws regarding disclosure? Do tell!  Granted, you can get 30+ years for spitting on someone if you're HIV+, but I don't think there's anything on the books for consensual or trick sex until there's actual transmission.  Please correct me if I'm wrong. 

Don't forget that Texas' unpublished state motto is "Don't Fuck Up, Or We'll Kill You. Really."

It doesn't fit on a standard license plate.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2009, 10:45:15 PM »

Don't forget that Texas' unpublished state motto is "Don't Fuck Up, Or We'll Kill You. Really."


And if we DO kill you and you're really innocent, then the Republican governor will cover that up!
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline AndyArrow

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2009, 01:43:35 AM »
I think a better law would require people to disclose if they are a total prat before having sex ... it's a bitch to find these things out afterwards.
It is not the arrival that matters.  It is the journey along the way. -- Michel Montaigne

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2009, 03:32:23 AM »
  I used to feel one way about this.  It took a while, but I have to admit seeing some of the struggles some go through here with trying to meet someone without being judged up front seems to be quite a nightmare.  I think it is up to the person and what they choose to do,  The one thing I do hope that if one is positive they choose to use protection during sexual encounters,  Other than that it is a personal preference whether to disclose or not.

  The only thing I use my morals for is when I buckle my seat belt... wait a second that's just self preservation...  What the hell are morals anyways.....  I think I'm more of an ethical kind of guy ;)  Like not cheatin on my wife and changing diapers and stuff.  But wait those are commandments and duties and stuff.  Man I forgot where I was going with this......  stiff frazzled from work, some poor lady turned onto some train tracks and got stuck on a bridge....  Instead of calling 911 she called roadside assistance and got me.  

  Sorry for the rant...  can't stand to hear a woman cry!  
  Sorry for the hijack also... I had a point but lost it in my need to share.  

  Only tip I have is just be careful who you disclose to because you don't know what some of these crazies will do.

  Thomass
« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 03:34:41 AM by skeebo1969 »
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline TheRoof

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2009, 02:13:02 PM »
Hmm.  Very interesting.

This wouldn't apply to me, as I practice celibacy. Lol



But I always wondered this. Insightful.

Offline ruralguy

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2009, 03:45:56 PM »
From MECCH:  "On the other hand, lets take a "hook up" just for sex.  Or a place where people meet for sex, not cocktails and a potential boyfriend.  Sex club. Park, etc.

In my mind, if you are having safe sex in such a situation, you are not obliged to disclose. On the other hand, if a guy asks you, even in such a situation, in my book, I would disclose, since you were asked. Or, just say, "none of your business" and stop having sex with the person, or don't start.  Leaves them in doubt - and you have confirmed nothing."

My thoughts:

In a sex club or similar situation, if you are undectable, on HAART, play safely (always) then I don't think you need to disclose.  People in such places generally behave as if everyone else is poz and if you run into someone who doesn't, don't play with them.  Untested pos people (I saw a number suggesting 25% of pos people don't get tested?) are far more dangerous.

Going into the same situation, not undectable and seeking unsafe sex is clearly problematic.

Just my view.


[/quote]
tested positive June 19, 2009
7/3/09 vrl 9000 cd4 - 300
8/14/09 cd4 - 350, 20%
started Atripla 9/14/09
10/5/09 vrl undetectable, WOW so fast!
12/28/09 vrl undetectable, CD4 - 615  27% cholesterol down, kidney function normal
4/26/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-600, kidney and liver numbers normal
9/9/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-685
1/3/11 vrl undetectable, CD4-700
all 2011 and Jan 2012 visits vrl undetectable CD4 ranged from 715-645
5/7/2012  vrl undetectable, CD4-615, all liver, kidney, lipids, heart functions, etc normal


On Atripla:  "Your mileage may vary"

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2009, 04:10:29 PM »

My thoughts:

In a sex club or similar situation, if you are undectable, on HAART, play safely (always) then I don't think you need to disclose.  People in such places generally behave as if everyone else is poz and if you run into someone who doesn't, don't play with them.  Untested pos people (I saw a number suggesting 25% of pos people don't get tested?) are far more dangerous.

Going into the same situation, not undectable and seeking unsafe sex is clearly problematic.


How about a one night stand from a bar/nightclub pick up that you take back home to your place (i.e. non-sex club hook up) -- all other precautions as you described remain the same (i.e. on HAART, specifically suppressed viral load I guess, and of course using a condom)
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline TheRoof

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2009, 04:23:36 PM »
Not sure if right or not. even if you are on HAART.


Do HIV drugs eliminate the HIV from the semen? Because I heard that there isn't really a reduction.

Offline denb45

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2009, 05:09:21 PM »
I believe in full disclosure about my HIV+ status, always has been my rule, if someone doesn't like it, there are certainly other HIV+ people out there who do  ::)
« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 05:11:30 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline ruralguy

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2009, 05:23:35 PM »
Well I've not yet confronted an anon situation so I don't know how I would really act.  But I've been wondering about it so this thread is useful

I guess I think taking someone home is beyond anon, so I think disclosure is needed. Agreed? If you think you might want to get more connected to somone, disclosure is needed.

And, no, Roof, Haart does not eliminate risk but greatly reduces it...in any event you must play safe or forget it, disclosure or not.



tested positive June 19, 2009
7/3/09 vrl 9000 cd4 - 300
8/14/09 cd4 - 350, 20%
started Atripla 9/14/09
10/5/09 vrl undetectable, WOW so fast!
12/28/09 vrl undetectable, CD4 - 615  27% cholesterol down, kidney function normal
4/26/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-600, kidney and liver numbers normal
9/9/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-685
1/3/11 vrl undetectable, CD4-700
all 2011 and Jan 2012 visits vrl undetectable CD4 ranged from 715-645
5/7/2012  vrl undetectable, CD4-615, all liver, kidney, lipids, heart functions, etc normal


On Atripla:  "Your mileage may vary"

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2009, 05:34:26 PM »

I guess I think taking someone home is beyond anon, so I think disclosure is needed. Agreed? If you think you might want to get more connected to somone, disclosure is needed.

You can cycle through 50 men in NYC (meaning met at bar, take home for a one-nighter) before you find one you actually want to endure through a 2 hour date.  Trust me on that.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline weasel

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2009, 06:59:43 PM »
You can cycle through 50 men in NYC (meaning met at bar, take home for a one-nighter) before you find one you actually want to endure through a 2 hour date.  Trust me on that.

     Yes  Miss Philicia  this IS  true  :o

        ROTFLMAO !

    I think everyone should disclose , period !

    I know people have big ugly mouths  and have nothing better to do than spread  crap

   around ,  I know they THINK  it makes them the better person .

    The last time i was in Las Vegas the bartender told me " Don't worry ALL these men are HIV POZ "

    I was shocked !  But now  that I have  grown into my new role of a POZ  man  I  just

    go with the flow ! 

    You can only be hurt if you allow them to hurt you !

                                       be well , be safe

                                                               Carl
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Offline ruralguy

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2009, 08:17:25 PM »
To many here I am sure this is an old, maybe tired, subject.  But I appreciate the different points of view.
Thanks.
tested positive June 19, 2009
7/3/09 vrl 9000 cd4 - 300
8/14/09 cd4 - 350, 20%
started Atripla 9/14/09
10/5/09 vrl undetectable, WOW so fast!
12/28/09 vrl undetectable, CD4 - 615  27% cholesterol down, kidney function normal
4/26/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-600, kidney and liver numbers normal
9/9/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-685
1/3/11 vrl undetectable, CD4-700
all 2011 and Jan 2012 visits vrl undetectable CD4 ranged from 715-645
5/7/2012  vrl undetectable, CD4-615, all liver, kidney, lipids, heart functions, etc normal


On Atripla:  "Your mileage may vary"

Offline mecch

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2009, 08:58:13 PM »
How about a one night stand from a bar/nightclub pick up that you take back home to your place (i.e. non-sex club hook up) -- all other precautions as you described remain the same (i.e. on HAART, specifically suppressed viral load I guess, and of course using a condom)

Hmm. If one has sex with the intention its just sex and not relationship material, in the above situation, no obligation to disclose. 
This could backfire if he turns into prince charming and you have to disclose a few humps down the road.  But, if he rejects you then, its the same result, he wasn't for you. You might be hurt, however.

Long term f*ck buddy also poses an interesting question.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline denb45

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2009, 09:14:36 PM »
You can cycle through 50 men in NYC (meaning met at bar, take home for a one-nighter) before you find one you actually want to endure through a 2 hour date.  Trust me on that.

Yes, but, I always loved a good Brooklyn accent, it makes me weak in the knees...... :o
« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 09:17:29 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2009, 09:34:37 PM »
Yes, but, I always loved a good Brooklyn accent, it makes me weak in the knees...... :o

Well, don't look at me Beatrice.  I grew up in DC and sound like Truman Capote.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline mecch

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2009, 09:46:45 PM »
Miss P, what you say about NYC male quality is terrible news. What has happened to the Big Apple.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline denb45

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2009, 10:37:07 PM »
Well, don't look at me Beatrice.  I grew up in DC and sound like Truman Capote.

Then you don't have Brooklyn accent....... :-*
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline PeteNYNJ

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2009, 10:54:46 PM »
I think Philly is using NYC as an example, the same could be said about any city that I have ever been to.

I think the choice to disclose is a personal decision.  There is no right or wrong answer.  If you do, be prepared for some stigma from some people and also some gossip.  If you don't, be prepared for the repercussions if people you sleep with do find out you are positive.  

I choose to disclose upfront because I feel it gives me some kind of power over my status.  I don't worry so much of infecting anyone because I only have safe sex now.  I understand if people don't want to have sex with me because of it, I try not to take it personally.  I think most people are pretty cool about the whole situation, in most cases it isn't the first time they have heard this news from a potential romance.  

Offline daysleeper

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2009, 04:52:21 AM »
Of course you have to tell your partners.

Ask yourself, as a negative guy, would you want to be told? And how would you feel finding out after the fact that you hadn't been told?

Right. So tell them.

Offline WildcatCC

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2009, 01:57:11 PM »
YOU - great guy for disclosing.
HIM - HUGE asshole for disclosing. Or maybe not ..

Something similar happened to me. I disclosed my status to a friend (non-sexual) who proceeded to tell many others. It was not his right to do so and yes, I sure was pissed.

Then about a month later, another friend asked me to lunch. We landed on the subject of "asshole friend" and he confided in me that our mutual friend disclosed to him that I was poz. He told me this because he recently found out he was poz and needed someone he could talk too. I was glad to help.

So a bad situation turned into a positive one - so to speak.  :D
Apr  08 - Diagnosed
Apr  08  cd4 8, vl 150k
Meds: Prezista/Norvir/Truvada
June 08 cd4 250, vl 1600
Aug  08 cd4 275, vl 450
Meds: Atripla
Nov  08  cd4  386, vl 255
Jan   09  cd4  415, vl 2100 (spike?)
Feb   09  cd4 460, vl 212
May   09  cd4 515, vl 1200
Aug   09  cd4 717, vl 1535 % 23
Sept  09  cd4 535  vl 1710 % 18
Oct   09  genotype shows mutation. Discussing w/ ID Doc
Nov  09   cd4 480  vl 650   % 19
Dec  09 genotype slight mutation to Epivir and Retrovir
Jan 10   cd4 508 vl 250 (21%)  low vitamin d - on supplement 2000 iu/day
Mar 15 Change to Isentress and Truvada
May 5 cd4 498 vl 1485
June 16 cd4 550 vl undect!!!! (finally dammit)

Offline Ann

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2009, 11:26:32 AM »
I had a somewhat similar experience to Wildcat. In 2004/05 I was working as a substance abuse counsellor. We shared a building with an alcohol support agency. I was out about my status to both agencies.

One of the women who worked for the alcohol agency was very excited to hear about my status - because she had a positive client. This client and I live in the same small town, so she was sure I'd know the client. I reminded her she could not legally or ethically tell me this person's identity. Wow, was she disappointed. I did give her some reading materials to pass on to this person, and offered that she was free to disclose MY status to her client and if the client wanted to talk, I was more than happy to give my time and support.

Well, her client never made any further appointments. Over a period of about six weeks, the alcohol counsellor dropped ever increasingly specific hints as to her positive client's identity. I talked to her supervisor and she was told to stop, but she didn't. I'd actually put my hands over my ears and walk out of the room when she'd start hint-dropping, but eventually I heard enough and knew her client's identity. I had known this person for years, as it turned out, and we've always been on friendly terms, but not what you'd call close.

I told her supervisor about the illegal disclosure, but no disciplinary action was ever taken. I probably should have gone to the relevant governmental board, but was advised by my own supervisor to "not rock the boat". I was struggling at the time with fatigue issues (largely due to going back to work too soon after my hep C treatment) and I really didn't have the energy to do what needed to be done without the support of my colleagues, so I had to drop the issue.

Anyway, I sat on the information for a few years, all the while knowing this person was very isolated and closeted regarding hiv infection. I agonised over how to reach out to this person without this person freaking out. Finally, on World Aids Day 2007, I bit the bullet and rang the client up to ask if I could drop in for coffee and a catch-up. It was absolutely the right thing to do. The client told me of the desire to talk to me about it for years (as most of you know, my status is no secret) but couldn't gather the courage to do so.

We are very close friends now and my only regret is that I didn't reach out sooner. I informed my friend how I found out, but my friend, although very angry at the counsellor at first, decided to not take any action. My friend decided that the eventual outcome was more important.

And I never realised until I wrote this story out just how hard it is to discuss a third party without giving anything about them away, such as gender.  :o ;D My friend has very good reasons for remaining closeted, no other people are being put in danger of infection through the non-disclosure, and I wouldn't dream of putting any information anywhere that might lead to identification.

Ann

Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline a2z

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2009, 12:13:12 PM »
I had a somewhat similar experience to Wildcat...

This is a great story, thanks for sharing it.

I've been very fortunate so far.  I've chosen for a number of reasons to keep my status private, particularly from my friends who know that I'm gay and used to be very sexually active.  While I made my choices, after 10 years of well-meaning "Be safe", I really just wanted to turn around and punch a few of these people.... it started to feel like a lecture rather than well-wishing.

The sexual non-disclosure is a separate issue.   I do not see how one can NOT tell a potential partner you are infected, even if there are consequences to you.  I can understand why someone wouldn't want to. 

I've mitigated the disclosure risk by simply having sex a lot more with my right hand, and occasionally the left hand for variety.  It's not a very satisfying answer for many people, but for where I am in my life, it actually works out very well.  If I met someone I liked, I would feel no need to disclose until sex was imminent. 

Dates are blood draw dates:
09/21/09: CD 898 27.0% VL 120 - back on track, same meds.High level enzymes, but less so
06/15/09: CD4 478 21.8% VL 1150 - high liver enzymes... looks like I may not be resistant
05/22/09: Fixed insurance, resumed medicine
04/17/09: Ran out of medicine, could not resolve insurance problems
04/01/09: CD4 773 28% VL 120 - high liver enzymes
12/01/08: CD4 514 23% VL 630
10/17/08 started Reyataz, Norvir and Truvada. -- possibly minor neuropathy, but otherwise okay.
9/10/08: CD4 345 17%, VL > 78K
8/18/08: CD4 312 18%, VL > 60K (considering meds)
12/19/07: CD4 550 28% VL > 100K (no meds yet)
Diagnosed 10/23/07

Offline pos2007

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2009, 02:30:19 PM »
You must  disclose both  legally and for  your  own clear  conscience.  The unfortunate circumstance  you had  with  the loser  bum  that  couldn't  keep  his  yap  shut  was  no more  than an evil action that  is part  of  the  reason  that  hell  is  so  nearly  full to  capacity that  some  of  us  may  get  to  go  to  heaven soley due  to  lack  of  space  in  hell.   Living  in a  small gossipy Missouri  town where everyone  knows  if  you  pass gas before you even  get  back  to  the  house,   I can  understand  your  frustrations.  Here  in Missouri  you can  easily  get 25  years  to  the  death  penalty  >:( for  non  disclosure. (  just  read an  article  about  it  a few days  ago after I  got  out  of  the  hospital) .  In  Iowa  you can go to  prison for  non  disclosure before  kissing.  WTF???? ??? It  is  a very  screwed  up  bigotted world  we  live  in.  It  is  our  job  not  to be  the  screw  up.   I  know  it  is  hard  to  tolerate.  Many have  even suggested that you  must  protect  yourself  by  getting  that  disclosure  in writing  and  even  witnessed  due  to  the  number  of  cases  where  the  person   lies  and says  you  didn't disclose  resulting  in  criminal  prosecution  you  have  no  way  to  otherwise  defend.  (you say-he  says).   From  what  I  have  read,   the  courts  usually  side  on the side  of  the  accuser.  I  would  further suggest  that  such  written disclosure also  state  that  if  the  person  you  disclose  to   blabs,    that you  will  pursue every  legal  means  available  to   see  that  they  lose  everything  including  both  balls. The  laws against  us are very one  sided. No  other  disease  has  this  stigma  or  level  of  penalties.   You  can  spread Hepatitas A,B,C,  or Papillomaviras 24 hours/7/365 days  per  year  w/o  penalty .  Even  people  with  those infections  should  disclose to give  you  the  option  of  saying  yes/ no/ lets be extra careful.  We  live  in a society  of  hateful  people looking  for  drama. Use  this as a learning experience. You  may also talk to  your  case  manager  if  you  have  one  worth  having  and  ask  them  to  talk  to  the  A  hole   to  explain  how  uncool  he  has behaved. I  would  also tell  others  you  are  comfortable  with  what  a  jerk  this  guy  is.   Over  time  the loser  bum scumbag  jerk   will   only  be  having  sex  with  the 4  fingers  of  his  right  hand  because  everyone who doesn't want  to  be  talked about will  avoid  him. I  am sorry  you   had to  go  through  this,  but appreciate  you  sharing so  that  others  may  learn  from  it. There is a wealth  of  advise available  here  from  people  who  care.  Good Luck!! :)
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 02:45:07 PM by pos2007 »
Diagnosed  CD4 138 VL. 38,000
Partner Diagnosed CD4 <20  VL.  488,000

Offline pos2007

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2009, 09:24:11 PM »
In a sex club or similar situation, if you are undectable, on HAART, play safely (always) then I don't think you need to disclose.
In a anon situation, like a sex club for example:
- if you are on meds
- if you are undetectable
- if you take playing safe seriously (specifically use a condom for anal sex)
- and you have no expectation of any relationship
Then the risk of any transmission is nil



ruralguy,  some HIV  meds  do  not  pass  the  brain  barrier  OR  THE  GENITAL  barriers   to  kill  the  virus. I  take  Atripla.  Unfortunately  it is one  of  those  drugs.   I  have <48   (undetectable )   blood  viral  load,  but  it  was  still  there  in  full  force in  my  ejaculate ( at  least  before  the  prostatectomy  when   there  was  still  such  stuff).   You still  need  to  use  protection  even  if you are undetectable  .  Condoms are  not  infallable.  Even  undetectable doesn't  mean  it's  not  there.  The virus  is  there. It  is  just  in too   low  of a quantity  for  the test to find  more  than 48 copies in  the sample.  It only took  one cell  of  the nasty  little  bugger  to  infect you.  One is  all  it  will take to infect  someone else.  The laws  stills says  you  must  inform  and everyone  should  have  the  option  to  decline  or  give informed  consent.  Yes, if  you are  undetectable,   the  chances are less than   if  you  pump  someone full  of 50,000  copies,  but  the chance still exists. USE PROTECTION.  HEP A,B,C,  drug resistant  HIV,  herpes,   other STD's  can go TWO  ways.  It  is  not  a one way street.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 09:18:23 PM by pos2007 »
Diagnosed  CD4 138 VL. 38,000
Partner Diagnosed CD4 <20  VL.  488,000

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2009, 09:31:29 PM »
I don't see in ruralguy's post(s) where he stated that he was barebacking.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline ruralguy

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #42 on: October 15, 2009, 09:35:46 AM »
I would never bareback with anyone....period...whether you inform them of your status or not, it is simply not something a poz person can do anymore.  That is is how poz people become poz and that is over.

Here is what I was suggesting:

In a anon situation, like a sex club for example:
- if you are on meds
- if you are undetectable
- if you take playing safe seriously (specifically use a condom for anal sex)
- and you have no expectation of any relationship
Then the risk of any transmission is nil. Then I suggest you don't need to tell your partner.  Furthermore, if you run into someone who does not play safe you are obligated to leave that situation and find someone else to play with.

Lastly it is certainly true that in doing this you run the risk of picking up some other STD but it is very unlikely to be hiv.  It is also true that there are legal issues in some places and not others.  And if you have any expectation of getting to know someone as a sex partner, lover, or just as a friend you need to tell them pretty soon or it is unlikely to be a successful relationship of any sort.

Responsible people in such an anon situation assume everyone is poz and that is how they stay safe.  I suggest poz people on meds and undetectable are probably some of the safest people to play with in such a situation as their health is regularly tracked.  Untested, untreated poz people are the worst, and they will be there too, so you have to protect yourself.

I haven't found myself in a situation like this and I think this forums are a good place to discuss it.  I read so much lasting fear of and withdrawl from sex here that it makes me wonder if it isn't so over-the-top as to be unhealthy.  A decent sex life is part of being a healthy person.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2009, 09:26:50 AM by ruralguy »
tested positive June 19, 2009
7/3/09 vrl 9000 cd4 - 300
8/14/09 cd4 - 350, 20%
started Atripla 9/14/09
10/5/09 vrl undetectable, WOW so fast!
12/28/09 vrl undetectable, CD4 - 615  27% cholesterol down, kidney function normal
4/26/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-600, kidney and liver numbers normal
9/9/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-685
1/3/11 vrl undetectable, CD4-700
all 2011 and Jan 2012 visits vrl undetectable CD4 ranged from 715-645
5/7/2012  vrl undetectable, CD4-615, all liver, kidney, lipids, heart functions, etc normal


On Atripla:  "Your mileage may vary"

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2009, 09:52:42 AM »
I read so much lasting fear of and withdrawl from sex here that it makes me wonder if it isn't so over-the-top as to be unhealthy.  A decent sex life is part of being a healthy person.

You got that one right.

Actually, short term celibacy is theoretically OK but only if one doesn't lose interest in sex, meaning specifically you still whack off daily (preferably with really raunchy German porn).  It's when you lose all interest in things sexual that it's indicative of depression.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline loop78

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2009, 12:59:47 PM »
In my opinion, our duty is to play safe. Using condoms correctly basically means transmission cannot happen.

Disclosure falls in another different category altogether. If you disclose, more power to you: it's a sign of strong character, contributes to fighting stigma and may be even better for you in the long run. It's a personal decision, a supererogatory act, not a duty.

I believe the opposite is lopsided and counterproductive.

We are all equally responsible for taking care of our health. It's not lack of disclosure what allows transmission, it's unsafe sex. We did not end up in this forum because someone (who might know he or she was poz or not) didn't say "hey, by the way, I'm hiv positive" while unzipping his/her fly, we did because we had sex without taking the appropriate measures to prevent transmission from happening. There is not such a thing as safe serosorting between neggies, precisely because being negative is just a supposition.

As long as neggies keep placing the emphasis in disclosure instead of doing it in safe sex as a personal responsibility, the number of pozzies will keep growing. When it's us, the positive, the ones who treat disclosure as if we were talking about a sacred duty, I can't help but wonder whether we are still dwelling on why we weren't told: blame and what if, what if, what if... It's time to move on.  ;)

And don't get me started with criminalization...  ;D

PS: FYI, I'm all for disclosing myself, but because it's my choice, not because I believe I should be obliged to.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 01:05:50 PM by loop78 »

Offline denb45

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #45 on: October 15, 2009, 02:07:42 PM »
You cannot assume everyone in this forum got HIV due to unprotected sex, some of us may have gotten it thur Blood transfusions, dirty needles, bad surgical equipment, believe it or not that still happens...you simply cannot say everyone in this forum who is POZ+ got it due to unprotected sex, that's a little unfair.......::)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 02:09:30 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline loop78

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #46 on: October 15, 2009, 02:27:51 PM »
I would say it's innacurate, not unfair. It's not like any type of transmission is the fairest of them all ;)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 02:29:59 PM by loop78 »

Offline ruralguy

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #47 on: October 15, 2009, 03:17:31 PM »
You cannot assume everyone in this forum got HIV due to unprotected sex, some of us may have gotten it thur Blood transfusions, dirty needles, bad surgical equipment, believe it or not that still happens...you simply cannot say everyone in this forum who is POZ+ got it due to unprotected sex, that's a little unfair.......::)

good point...I didn't mean to offend.

In my opinion, our duty is to play safe. Using condoms correctly basically means transmission cannot happen.

yep, 100% agree

tested positive June 19, 2009
7/3/09 vrl 9000 cd4 - 300
8/14/09 cd4 - 350, 20%
started Atripla 9/14/09
10/5/09 vrl undetectable, WOW so fast!
12/28/09 vrl undetectable, CD4 - 615  27% cholesterol down, kidney function normal
4/26/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-600, kidney and liver numbers normal
9/9/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-685
1/3/11 vrl undetectable, CD4-700
all 2011 and Jan 2012 visits vrl undetectable CD4 ranged from 715-645
5/7/2012  vrl undetectable, CD4-615, all liver, kidney, lipids, heart functions, etc normal


On Atripla:  "Your mileage may vary"

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #48 on: October 15, 2009, 03:27:57 PM »

supererogatory


Cool word, Loop, thanks for using it. I had to look it up, something I rarely have to do because I'm such a word-nerd (armchair etymologist). ;D

I agree with what you said as well. Non-disclosure doesn't cause transmission, unsafe sex does.

Personally, I always disclose too, and yes, I also view it as a personal choice, not something that's obligatory. I've even used disclosure as a handy way to get rid of some schmuck in the pub who thinks he's god's gift and won't take a simple "no thank you" for an answer. It's usually jerks who are like that and jerks usually run a mile when they hear those magic "I'm hiv positive" words. :D Works like a charm. Disclosure is a very good asshole screening mechanism.

Ann

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #49 on: October 15, 2009, 03:39:19 PM »
I've even used disclosure as a handy way to get rid of some schmuck in the pub who thinks he's god's gift and won't take a simple "no thank you" for an answer.

Doesn't always work with homos I'm afraid.  If they're clingy types it can even backfire.  They think it makes you more desperate, in need of "mothering" and thus an even easier catch.  Then you have to try three times as hard to shake the toilet paper off of your shoe.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

 


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