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Author Topic: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???  (Read 16235 times)

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Offline poz_hiv_bruh

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Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« on: October 07, 2009, 08:59:56 AM »
So I've been upfront when meeting someone new that I'm HIV+ and up until recently, I haven't had any issues.  Well recently I told this guy I was and he told SEVERAL people about my status and it's starting to spread like wild fire!  So many people don't disclose thier status which I always thought was wrong, but now I'm start to actually understand why they don't.

How can people expect you to be upfront if they are going to be so malicious about your status?
« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 09:13:37 AM by poz_hiv_bruh »

Offline BlueMoon

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2009, 12:23:27 PM »
What you did was right.  What the other guy did was wrong.
...................VL.....CD4.....%
-----------------------------------------
08/10-- ......<40.....290.....42
05/10-- ......<48.....290.....46
02/10-- ......<48.....481.....44
10/09-- ......<48.....277.....46
07/09-- ......<48.....300.....38
05/09-- ........51.....449.....39
03/09-- Added Isentress
02/09-- ........65.....299.....34
11/08-- ........62.....242.....40
08/08-- ........66.....212.....29
05/08-- ......202.....217.....27
03/08-- ....5210.....187.....21
02/08-- Began Truvada/Reyataz/Norvir
12/07-- 273,000.....157.....22
11/07-- 229,000.....209.....22
10/07-- Diagnosis

It's a complex world.

Offline melloyellow

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2009, 02:10:25 PM »
I feel the same way as you. I wouldn't feel right having sex with someone if I don't tell them that
I am HIV+. They will have decide if they want to have sex with me or not.

The person is a ass hole..

Offline Queen Tokelove

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2009, 03:15:11 PM »
Yeah, I feel your pain but mine was worse, it was my own family putting my status out there.
Started Atripla/Ziagen on 9/13/07.
10/31/07 CD4-265 VL- undetectable
2/6/08 CD4- 401 VL- undetectable
5/7/08 CD4- 705 VL- undetectable
6/4/08 CD4- 775 VL- undetectable
8/6/08 CD4- 805 VL- undetectable
11/13/08 CD4- 774 VL--undetectable
2/4/09  CD4- 484  VL- 18,000 (2 months off meds)
3/3/09---Starting Back on Meds---
4/27/09 CD4- 664 VL-- undetectable
6/17/09 CD4- 438 VL- 439
8/09 CD4- 404 VL- 1,600
01-22-10-- CD4- 525 VL- 59,000
Cherish the simple things life has to offer

The Royal Blog

Offline madbrain

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2009, 03:23:24 PM »
Yeah, I feel your pain but mine was worse, it was my own family putting my status out there.

My father also told everyone on his side of the family about it after I broke the news to him, which was about a month after my diagnosis, and over the phone, since we live about 6000 miles apart. I was somewhat surprised that he would do that.
I never confronted him about it. I'm not sure that it would have been easier for me to disclose it individually to the rest of the family, which I would have done anyway, in time.
I don't think it was anything malicious on his part, rather, he just didn't know how to cope with this news alone.
My mother on the other hand kept her mouth shut. I recently disclosed to her sister during a trip to France last month.

Offline madbrain

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2009, 03:33:42 PM »
So I've been upfront when meeting someone new that I'm HIV+ and up until recently, I haven't had any issues.  Well recently I told this guy I was and he told SEVERAL people about my status and it's starting to spread like wild fire!  So many people don't disclose thier status which I always thought was wrong, but now I'm start to actually understand why they don't.

How can people expect you to be upfront if they are going to be so malicious about your status?

Sorry about the previous thread digression about family disclosure. You did the right thing in disclosing your status to this guy. What he did after that was not under your control. Realize that information wants to be free and you can't control it. Disclosure is not something you can take back, as you found out. I think the answer is not to be ashamed of your status. If someone else has a problem with it, well, it's really their problem, not yours.

Offline AlanBama

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2009, 03:41:46 PM »
I think it's best to disclose, not only for the other person, but for your own protection.  All these fools whose ads say "will bareback with neg bottoms" -- pu-lease.  You know they're probably poz, or for sure going to end up that way.  You just don't want them to be able to accuse YOU of getting them there.
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline next2u

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2009, 01:32:40 AM »
that guy was a ginormous asshole.

back to your question. disclosure is up to you. while i admire your policy i dont believe that disclosure is necessary in all situations.

best,
d
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2009, 01:42:46 AM »



   
Disclosure is not something you can take back, as you found out. I think the answer is not to be ashamed of your status. If someone else has a problem with it, well, it's really their problem, not yours.


  So true!!!   
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline dtwpuck

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2009, 06:34:23 AM »
That guy is an asshole.  But, one of the suckiest things about being poz is that you are both morally and legally obligated to disclose your status to anyone with whom you have sex.  This includes safe sex. 

It sucks, but it's the way it is.  The only way I know how to deal with it is to take control of the information yourself.  Rather than letting it be gossip, let it be just one more fact about you.  A lot of poz people, rightly so, have a lot of anxiety about stigma, rejection, etc etc etc.  These things are going to happen.   

Remember, other people are always going to talk about you.  Realize that you will never be able to control it.  But, you can control how YOU tell people.    Yes, you are going to be rejected.  And, yes, it will hurt sometimes.  There is no magic way to grow a thicker skin or an "I don't give a fuck" attitude.  But, somewhere, inside, you're going to need to either figure out a way to do it, or stick with doing other poz guys, or just hide and be unhappy.  The word always gets out.  It's going to be the same story.  It's always going to hurt in the same way.  And the rules are always the same. 

Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Offline dixieman

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2009, 01:57:53 PM »
Hey ... you did the right thing in telling a potential sex partner... and this person is a Jackass... I know a person who was going around telling everyone elses buisness about a hookup they had about their status of being hiv+ in town... This person thought I would be shocked but, all I said was... are you their doctor and asked if this man who was hiv+ was cute? and since he did not want to trick with him could he give me his number!  Well that floored this queen... I told the gossip at least he was man enough he had a disease ... oh and have youve been checked? or are you just going by prayer everytime you pick up a trick... Damn... I never did get the number... figures?

Offline mecch

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2009, 02:17:22 PM »
Of course you do not in all situations. Depends on several factors.

Sorry to offer the contrary opinion, or to open this to a old argument.
Please check YOUR state's laws as to disclosure of HIV status before a sex act.
Also, check YOUR state's laws about HIV transmission.

If there are no laws saying you have to disclose, then you do not have to disclose.  If you transmit, it might be a crime, sometimes if you disclose, sometimes if you dont.

Those who say you are morally obliged to disclose, based on what code of morals, please?

Its a good idea to disclose.  Maybe its your moral code, so stick to it.

The guy who spread the news was a jerk.

On the other hand, lets take a "hook up" just for sex.  Or a place where people meet for sex, not cocktails and a potential boyfriend.  Sex club. Park, etc.

In my book, if you are having safe sex in such as situation, you are not obliged to disclose. On the other hand, if a guy asks you, even in such a situation, in my book, I would disclose, since you were asked. Or, just say, "none of your business" and stop having sex with the person, or don't start.  Leaves them in doubt - and you have confirmed nothing.

Disclosing in the above sex situations seems even less "morally" obligatory if you are on HAART and undetectable.   But, this may, or may not, be LEGALLY advisable, so check it out where you live, or screw around.

Voila. can of worms.

« Last Edit: October 08, 2009, 02:20:18 PM by mecch »
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline dtwpuck

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2009, 05:45:53 PM »
Prompted by Mecch's post.  I just did some research.  Interestingly, in most states, unauthorized disclosure of HIV status is also illegal.  Telling another person that someone is poz is often something that can be the subject of a lawsuit.  It is not limited to just healthcare providers.   I didn't know that.

However, if there is a state that doesn't have an hiv disclosure law, I haven't found it yet.   (I've only checked 14)  I can't find any comprehensive list.  But it does seem that the most draconian ones are Florida, Michigan and Texas.    To date, there have been approximately 300 cases in the US ranging from misdemeanor to manslaughter.  There's quite a range.    Although, I haven't found one yet where the law states that it is ok not to disclose.  Many states don't have an hiv specific law, but rather just a law that includes willful exposure to a communicable disease being considered assault at best, and attempted murder at worst.

I suppose stating that it is a moral obligation could be a gray area where two reasonable people could disagree.   Although it strikes me as wishful thinking that it would be OK not to tell a sex partner all of the information.    I certainly would not want to be caught in the situation where an infection occured as the result of non-disclosure.   It's just not that important to get off.  And, it's just not that difficult to find people who are ok with poz partners, especially when you're talking about casual sex. 

so, poz-bruh.... maybe you live in a state where you can sue.  Good luck with that.
Meech... thanks for pointing out that it's not so unilateral, at least in the US.  I doubt that wilful non-disclosure would go unpunished, though, if tested in any US state.



Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Offline mecch

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2009, 05:57:23 PM »
Prompted by Mecch's post.  I just did some research.  Interestingly, in most states, unauthorized disclosure of HIV status is also illegal.  Telling another person that someone is poz is often something that can be the subject of a lawsuit.  It is not limited to just healthcare providers.   I didn't know that.

However, if there is a state that doesn't have an hiv disclosure law, I haven't found it yet.   (I've only checked 14)  I can't find any comprehensive list.  But it does seem that the most draconian ones are Florida, Michigan and Texas.    To date, there have been approximately 300 cases in the US ranging from misdemeanor to manslaughter.  There's quite a range.    Although, I haven't found one yet where the law states that it is ok not to disclose.  Many states don't have an hiv specific law, but rather just a law that includes willful exposure to a communicable disease being considered assault at best, and attempted murder at worst.

I suppose stating that it is a moral obligation could be a gray area where two reasonable people could disagree.   Although it strikes me as wishful thinking that it would be OK not to tell a sex partner all of the information.    I certainly would not want to be caught in the situation where an infection occured as the result of non-disclosure.   It's just not that important to get off.  And, it's just not that difficult to find people who are ok with poz partners, especially when you're talking about casual sex.  

so, poz-bruh.... maybe you live in a state where you can sue.  Good luck with that.
Meech... thanks for pointing out that it's not so unilateral, at least in the US.  I doubt that wilful non-disclosure would go unpunished, though, if tested in any US state.

Your survey is extremely incomplete. The best method is to check with a local AIDS service organisation or gay rights group or health department.  New York State law is extremely imprecise.  IF there has never been a prosecution in NYS for sex without disclosure, why would it be legally prohibited now?  I think there are states where transmission is the big no no. In other states, non disclosure itself is a no no.
From the law, as written, to enforcement is another matter to consider.

I am not an expert.

I don't even live in the USA, but I am a citizen.

In 25 years of fun and games, I can count on one hand the number of guys who have spontaneously disclosed in a sex only situation.

If you personally think it is wrong to not disclose, go ahead and stick to your principals.  But there may not be a legal imperative depending on what country or state you live in. Also, increasingly, depending on whether you are undetectable or not.  Sorry, that is the messy reality.

ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline dtwpuck

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2009, 07:27:08 PM »
Mecch, I completely agree that the reality is messy.  Truthfully, I can't say I really can remember that many people disclosing to me before I disclosed the them.  But, that had a lot to do with the fact that I've always been very public about my status.  So, for me it's skewed.   But, at least during the years that I was a complete whore, I never really had that much difficulty.   Men are pigs. 

Anyway, some states don't have hiv specific laws but a long history of treating hiv as a lethal weapon.  So the list at thebody.com is a bit misleading.  Although, otherwise your postings are extremely informative.  Thanks for posting.   It sounds like Mass is the place to live. 

I still stand by my assertion that it is wrong to disclose.  I just can't find any moral justification for not doing so.   Ethics are, ultimately, subjective.   There are many good, reasonable people who disagree with me.
Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Offline Basquo

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2009, 09:22:48 PM »
But it does seem that the most draconian ones are Florida, Michigan and Texas.   

Texas has "draconian" laws regarding disclosure? Do tell!  Granted, you can get 30+ years for spitting on someone if you're HIV+, but I don't think there's anything on the books for consensual or trick sex until there's actual transmission.  Please correct me if I'm wrong. 

Don't forget that Texas' unpublished state motto is "Don't Fuck Up, Or We'll Kill You. Really."

It doesn't fit on a standard license plate.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2009, 10:45:15 PM »

Don't forget that Texas' unpublished state motto is "Don't Fuck Up, Or We'll Kill You. Really."


And if we DO kill you and you're really innocent, then the Republican governor will cover that up!
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline AndyArrow

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2009, 01:43:35 AM »
I think a better law would require people to disclose if they are a total prat before having sex ... it's a bitch to find these things out afterwards.
It is not the arrival that matters.  It is the journey along the way. -- Michel Montaigne

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2009, 03:32:23 AM »
  I used to feel one way about this.  It took a while, but I have to admit seeing some of the struggles some go through here with trying to meet someone without being judged up front seems to be quite a nightmare.  I think it is up to the person and what they choose to do,  The one thing I do hope that if one is positive they choose to use protection during sexual encounters,  Other than that it is a personal preference whether to disclose or not.

  The only thing I use my morals for is when I buckle my seat belt... wait a second that's just self preservation...  What the hell are morals anyways.....  I think I'm more of an ethical kind of guy ;)  Like not cheatin on my wife and changing diapers and stuff.  But wait those are commandments and duties and stuff.  Man I forgot where I was going with this......  stiff frazzled from work, some poor lady turned onto some train tracks and got stuck on a bridge....  Instead of calling 911 she called roadside assistance and got me.  

  Sorry for the rant...  can't stand to hear a woman cry!  
  Sorry for the hijack also... I had a point but lost it in my need to share.  

  Only tip I have is just be careful who you disclose to because you don't know what some of these crazies will do.

  Thomass
« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 03:34:41 AM by skeebo1969 »
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline TheRoof

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2009, 02:13:02 PM »
Hmm.  Very interesting.

This wouldn't apply to me, as I practice celibacy. Lol



But I always wondered this. Insightful.

Offline ruralguy

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2009, 03:45:56 PM »
From MECCH:  "On the other hand, lets take a "hook up" just for sex.  Or a place where people meet for sex, not cocktails and a potential boyfriend.  Sex club. Park, etc.

In my mind, if you are having safe sex in such a situation, you are not obliged to disclose. On the other hand, if a guy asks you, even in such a situation, in my book, I would disclose, since you were asked. Or, just say, "none of your business" and stop having sex with the person, or don't start.  Leaves them in doubt - and you have confirmed nothing."

My thoughts:

In a sex club or similar situation, if you are undectable, on HAART, play safely (always) then I don't think you need to disclose.  People in such places generally behave as if everyone else is poz and if you run into someone who doesn't, don't play with them.  Untested pos people (I saw a number suggesting 25% of pos people don't get tested?) are far more dangerous.

Going into the same situation, not undectable and seeking unsafe sex is clearly problematic.

Just my view.


[/quote]
tested positive June 19, 2009
7/3/09 vrl 9000 cd4 - 300
8/14/09 cd4 - 350, 20%
started Atripla 9/14/09
10/5/09 vrl undetectable, WOW so fast!
12/28/09 vrl undetectable, CD4 - 615  27% cholesterol down, kidney function normal
4/26/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-600, kidney and liver numbers normal
9/9/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-685
1/3/11 vrl undetectable, CD4-700
all 2011 and Jan 2012 visits vrl undetectable CD4 ranged from 715-645
5/7/2012  vrl undetectable, CD4-615, all liver, kidney, lipids, heart functions, etc normal


On Atripla:  "Your mileage may vary"

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2009, 04:10:29 PM »

My thoughts:

In a sex club or similar situation, if you are undectable, on HAART, play safely (always) then I don't think you need to disclose.  People in such places generally behave as if everyone else is poz and if you run into someone who doesn't, don't play with them.  Untested pos people (I saw a number suggesting 25% of pos people don't get tested?) are far more dangerous.

Going into the same situation, not undectable and seeking unsafe sex is clearly problematic.


How about a one night stand from a bar/nightclub pick up that you take back home to your place (i.e. non-sex club hook up) -- all other precautions as you described remain the same (i.e. on HAART, specifically suppressed viral load I guess, and of course using a condom)
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline TheRoof

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2009, 04:23:36 PM »
Not sure if right or not. even if you are on HAART.


Do HIV drugs eliminate the HIV from the semen? Because I heard that there isn't really a reduction.

Offline denb45

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2009, 05:09:21 PM »
I believe in full disclosure about my HIV+ status, always has been my rule, if someone doesn't like it, there are certainly other HIV+ people out there who do  ::)
« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 05:11:30 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline ruralguy

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2009, 05:23:35 PM »
Well I've not yet confronted an anon situation so I don't know how I would really act.  But I've been wondering about it so this thread is useful

I guess I think taking someone home is beyond anon, so I think disclosure is needed. Agreed? If you think you might want to get more connected to somone, disclosure is needed.

And, no, Roof, Haart does not eliminate risk but greatly reduces it...in any event you must play safe or forget it, disclosure or not.



tested positive June 19, 2009
7/3/09 vrl 9000 cd4 - 300
8/14/09 cd4 - 350, 20%
started Atripla 9/14/09
10/5/09 vrl undetectable, WOW so fast!
12/28/09 vrl undetectable, CD4 - 615  27% cholesterol down, kidney function normal
4/26/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-600, kidney and liver numbers normal
9/9/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-685
1/3/11 vrl undetectable, CD4-700
all 2011 and Jan 2012 visits vrl undetectable CD4 ranged from 715-645
5/7/2012  vrl undetectable, CD4-615, all liver, kidney, lipids, heart functions, etc normal


On Atripla:  "Your mileage may vary"

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2009, 05:34:26 PM »

I guess I think taking someone home is beyond anon, so I think disclosure is needed. Agreed? If you think you might want to get more connected to somone, disclosure is needed.

You can cycle through 50 men in NYC (meaning met at bar, take home for a one-nighter) before you find one you actually want to endure through a 2 hour date.  Trust me on that.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline weasel

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2009, 06:59:43 PM »
You can cycle through 50 men in NYC (meaning met at bar, take home for a one-nighter) before you find one you actually want to endure through a 2 hour date.  Trust me on that.

     Yes  Miss Philicia  this IS  true  :o

        ROTFLMAO !

    I think everyone should disclose , period !

    I know people have big ugly mouths  and have nothing better to do than spread  crap

   around ,  I know they THINK  it makes them the better person .

    The last time i was in Las Vegas the bartender told me " Don't worry ALL these men are HIV POZ "

    I was shocked !  But now  that I have  grown into my new role of a POZ  man  I  just

    go with the flow ! 

    You can only be hurt if you allow them to hurt you !

                                       be well , be safe

                                                               Carl
" Live and let Live "

Offline ruralguy

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2009, 08:17:25 PM »
To many here I am sure this is an old, maybe tired, subject.  But I appreciate the different points of view.
Thanks.
tested positive June 19, 2009
7/3/09 vrl 9000 cd4 - 300
8/14/09 cd4 - 350, 20%
started Atripla 9/14/09
10/5/09 vrl undetectable, WOW so fast!
12/28/09 vrl undetectable, CD4 - 615  27% cholesterol down, kidney function normal
4/26/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-600, kidney and liver numbers normal
9/9/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-685
1/3/11 vrl undetectable, CD4-700
all 2011 and Jan 2012 visits vrl undetectable CD4 ranged from 715-645
5/7/2012  vrl undetectable, CD4-615, all liver, kidney, lipids, heart functions, etc normal


On Atripla:  "Your mileage may vary"

Offline mecch

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2009, 08:58:13 PM »
How about a one night stand from a bar/nightclub pick up that you take back home to your place (i.e. non-sex club hook up) -- all other precautions as you described remain the same (i.e. on HAART, specifically suppressed viral load I guess, and of course using a condom)

Hmm. If one has sex with the intention its just sex and not relationship material, in the above situation, no obligation to disclose. 
This could backfire if he turns into prince charming and you have to disclose a few humps down the road.  But, if he rejects you then, its the same result, he wasn't for you. You might be hurt, however.

Long term f*ck buddy also poses an interesting question.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline denb45

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2009, 09:14:36 PM »
You can cycle through 50 men in NYC (meaning met at bar, take home for a one-nighter) before you find one you actually want to endure through a 2 hour date.  Trust me on that.

Yes, but, I always loved a good Brooklyn accent, it makes me weak in the knees...... :o
« Last Edit: October 10, 2009, 09:17:29 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2009, 09:34:37 PM »
Yes, but, I always loved a good Brooklyn accent, it makes me weak in the knees...... :o

Well, don't look at me Beatrice.  I grew up in DC and sound like Truman Capote.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline mecch

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2009, 09:46:45 PM »
Miss P, what you say about NYC male quality is terrible news. What has happened to the Big Apple.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline denb45

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #33 on: October 10, 2009, 10:37:07 PM »
Well, don't look at me Beatrice.  I grew up in DC and sound like Truman Capote.

Then you don't have Brooklyn accent....... :-*
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline PeteNYNJ

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2009, 10:54:46 PM »
I think Philly is using NYC as an example, the same could be said about any city that I have ever been to.

I think the choice to disclose is a personal decision.  There is no right or wrong answer.  If you do, be prepared for some stigma from some people and also some gossip.  If you don't, be prepared for the repercussions if people you sleep with do find out you are positive.  

I choose to disclose upfront because I feel it gives me some kind of power over my status.  I don't worry so much of infecting anyone because I only have safe sex now.  I understand if people don't want to have sex with me because of it, I try not to take it personally.  I think most people are pretty cool about the whole situation, in most cases it isn't the first time they have heard this news from a potential romance.  

Offline daysleeper

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2009, 04:52:21 AM »
Of course you have to tell your partners.

Ask yourself, as a negative guy, would you want to be told? And how would you feel finding out after the fact that you hadn't been told?

Right. So tell them.

Offline WildcatCC

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2009, 01:57:11 PM »
YOU - great guy for disclosing.
HIM - HUGE asshole for disclosing. Or maybe not ..

Something similar happened to me. I disclosed my status to a friend (non-sexual) who proceeded to tell many others. It was not his right to do so and yes, I sure was pissed.

Then about a month later, another friend asked me to lunch. We landed on the subject of "asshole friend" and he confided in me that our mutual friend disclosed to him that I was poz. He told me this because he recently found out he was poz and needed someone he could talk too. I was glad to help.

So a bad situation turned into a positive one - so to speak.  :D
Apr  08 - Diagnosed
Apr  08  cd4 8, vl 150k
Meds: Prezista/Norvir/Truvada
June 08 cd4 250, vl 1600
Aug  08 cd4 275, vl 450
Meds: Atripla
Nov  08  cd4  386, vl 255
Jan   09  cd4  415, vl 2100 (spike?)
Feb   09  cd4 460, vl 212
May   09  cd4 515, vl 1200
Aug   09  cd4 717, vl 1535 % 23
Sept  09  cd4 535  vl 1710 % 18
Oct   09  genotype shows mutation. Discussing w/ ID Doc
Nov  09   cd4 480  vl 650   % 19
Dec  09 genotype slight mutation to Epivir and Retrovir
Jan 10   cd4 508 vl 250 (21%)  low vitamin d - on supplement 2000 iu/day
Mar 15 Change to Isentress and Truvada
May 5 cd4 498 vl 1485
June 16 cd4 550 vl undect!!!! (finally dammit)

Offline Ann

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2009, 11:26:32 AM »
I had a somewhat similar experience to Wildcat. In 2004/05 I was working as a substance abuse counsellor. We shared a building with an alcohol support agency. I was out about my status to both agencies.

One of the women who worked for the alcohol agency was very excited to hear about my status - because she had a positive client. This client and I live in the same small town, so she was sure I'd know the client. I reminded her she could not legally or ethically tell me this person's identity. Wow, was she disappointed. I did give her some reading materials to pass on to this person, and offered that she was free to disclose MY status to her client and if the client wanted to talk, I was more than happy to give my time and support.

Well, her client never made any further appointments. Over a period of about six weeks, the alcohol counsellor dropped ever increasingly specific hints as to her positive client's identity. I talked to her supervisor and she was told to stop, but she didn't. I'd actually put my hands over my ears and walk out of the room when she'd start hint-dropping, but eventually I heard enough and knew her client's identity. I had known this person for years, as it turned out, and we've always been on friendly terms, but not what you'd call close.

I told her supervisor about the illegal disclosure, but no disciplinary action was ever taken. I probably should have gone to the relevant governmental board, but was advised by my own supervisor to "not rock the boat". I was struggling at the time with fatigue issues (largely due to going back to work too soon after my hep C treatment) and I really didn't have the energy to do what needed to be done without the support of my colleagues, so I had to drop the issue.

Anyway, I sat on the information for a few years, all the while knowing this person was very isolated and closeted regarding hiv infection. I agonised over how to reach out to this person without this person freaking out. Finally, on World Aids Day 2007, I bit the bullet and rang the client up to ask if I could drop in for coffee and a catch-up. It was absolutely the right thing to do. The client told me of the desire to talk to me about it for years (as most of you know, my status is no secret) but couldn't gather the courage to do so.

We are very close friends now and my only regret is that I didn't reach out sooner. I informed my friend how I found out, but my friend, although very angry at the counsellor at first, decided to not take any action. My friend decided that the eventual outcome was more important.

And I never realised until I wrote this story out just how hard it is to discuss a third party without giving anything about them away, such as gender.  :o ;D My friend has very good reasons for remaining closeted, no other people are being put in danger of infection through the non-disclosure, and I wouldn't dream of putting any information anywhere that might lead to identification.

Ann

Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline a2z

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2009, 12:13:12 PM »
I had a somewhat similar experience to Wildcat...

This is a great story, thanks for sharing it.

I've been very fortunate so far.  I've chosen for a number of reasons to keep my status private, particularly from my friends who know that I'm gay and used to be very sexually active.  While I made my choices, after 10 years of well-meaning "Be safe", I really just wanted to turn around and punch a few of these people.... it started to feel like a lecture rather than well-wishing.

The sexual non-disclosure is a separate issue.   I do not see how one can NOT tell a potential partner you are infected, even if there are consequences to you.  I can understand why someone wouldn't want to. 

I've mitigated the disclosure risk by simply having sex a lot more with my right hand, and occasionally the left hand for variety.  It's not a very satisfying answer for many people, but for where I am in my life, it actually works out very well.  If I met someone I liked, I would feel no need to disclose until sex was imminent. 

Dates are blood draw dates:
9/4/14: CD4 948, 37.9%, VL 150
5/23/14: CD4 895 --.-% VL UD - Truvada/Isentress
09/21/09: CD4 898 27.0% VL 120 - back on track, same meds.High level enzymes, but less so
06/15/09: CD4 478 21.8% VL 1150 - high liver enzymes... looks like I may not be resistant
05/22/09: Fixed insurance, resumed medicine
04/17/09: Ran out of medicine, could not resolve insurance problems
04/01/09: CD4 773 28% VL 120 - high liver enzymes
12/01/08: CD4 514 23% VL 630
10/17/08 started Reyataz, Norvir and Truvada. -- possibly minor neuropathy, but otherwise okay.
9/10/08: CD4 345 17%, VL > 78K
8/18/08: CD4 312 18%, VL > 60K (considering meds)
12/19/07: CD4 550 28% VL > 100K (no meds yet)
Diagnosed 10/23/07

Offline pos2007

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #39 on: October 14, 2009, 02:30:19 PM »
You must  disclose both  legally and for  your  own clear  conscience.  The unfortunate circumstance  you had  with  the loser  bum  that  couldn't  keep  his  yap  shut  was  no more  than an evil action that  is part  of  the  reason  that  hell  is  so  nearly  full to  capacity that  some  of  us  may  get  to  go  to  heaven soley due  to  lack  of  space  in  hell.   Living  in a  small gossipy Missouri  town where everyone  knows  if  you  pass gas before you even  get  back  to  the  house,   I can  understand  your  frustrations.  Here  in Missouri  you can  easily  get 25  years  to  the  death  penalty  >:( for  non  disclosure. (  just  read an  article  about  it  a few days  ago after I  got  out  of  the  hospital) .  In  Iowa  you can go to  prison for  non  disclosure before  kissing.  WTF???? ??? It  is  a very  screwed  up  bigotted world  we  live  in.  It  is  our  job  not  to be  the  screw  up.   I  know  it  is  hard  to  tolerate.  Many have  even suggested that you  must  protect  yourself  by  getting  that  disclosure  in writing  and  even  witnessed  due  to  the  number  of  cases  where  the  person   lies  and says  you  didn't disclose  resulting  in  criminal  prosecution  you  have  no  way  to  otherwise  defend.  (you say-he  says).   From  what  I  have  read,   the  courts  usually  side  on the side  of  the  accuser.  I  would  further suggest  that  such  written disclosure also  state  that  if  the  person  you  disclose  to   blabs,    that you  will  pursue every  legal  means  available  to   see  that  they  lose  everything  including  both  balls. The  laws against  us are very one  sided. No  other  disease  has  this  stigma  or  level  of  penalties.   You  can  spread Hepatitas A,B,C,  or Papillomaviras 24 hours/7/365 days  per  year  w/o  penalty .  Even  people  with  those infections  should  disclose to give  you  the  option  of  saying  yes/ no/ lets be extra careful.  We  live  in a society  of  hateful  people looking  for  drama. Use  this as a learning experience. You  may also talk to  your  case  manager  if  you  have  one  worth  having  and  ask  them  to  talk  to  the  A  hole   to  explain  how  uncool  he  has behaved. I  would  also tell  others  you  are  comfortable  with  what  a  jerk  this  guy  is.   Over  time  the loser  bum scumbag  jerk   will   only  be  having  sex  with  the 4  fingers  of  his  right  hand  because  everyone who doesn't want  to  be  talked about will  avoid  him. I  am sorry  you   had to  go  through  this,  but appreciate  you  sharing so  that  others  may  learn  from  it. There is a wealth  of  advise available  here  from  people  who  care.  Good Luck!! :)
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 02:45:07 PM by pos2007 »
Diagnosed  CD4 138 VL. 38,000
Partner Diagnosed CD4 <20  VL.  488,000

Offline pos2007

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #40 on: October 14, 2009, 09:24:11 PM »
In a sex club or similar situation, if you are undectable, on HAART, play safely (always) then I don't think you need to disclose.
In a anon situation, like a sex club for example:
- if you are on meds
- if you are undetectable
- if you take playing safe seriously (specifically use a condom for anal sex)
- and you have no expectation of any relationship
Then the risk of any transmission is nil



ruralguy,  some HIV  meds  do  not  pass  the  brain  barrier  OR  THE  GENITAL  barriers   to  kill  the  virus. I  take  Atripla.  Unfortunately  it is one  of  those  drugs.   I  have <48   (undetectable )   blood  viral  load,  but  it  was  still  there  in  full  force in  my  ejaculate ( at  least  before  the  prostatectomy  when   there  was  still  such  stuff).   You still  need  to  use  protection  even  if you are undetectable  .  Condoms are  not  infallable.  Even  undetectable doesn't  mean  it's  not  there.  The virus  is  there. It  is  just  in too   low  of a quantity  for  the test to find  more  than 48 copies in  the sample.  It only took  one cell  of  the nasty  little  bugger  to  infect you.  One is  all  it  will take to infect  someone else.  The laws  stills says  you  must  inform  and everyone  should  have  the  option  to  decline  or  give informed  consent.  Yes, if  you are  undetectable,   the  chances are less than   if  you  pump  someone full  of 50,000  copies,  but  the chance still exists. USE PROTECTION.  HEP A,B,C,  drug resistant  HIV,  herpes,   other STD's  can go TWO  ways.  It  is  not  a one way street.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 09:18:23 PM by pos2007 »
Diagnosed  CD4 138 VL. 38,000
Partner Diagnosed CD4 <20  VL.  488,000

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #41 on: October 14, 2009, 09:31:29 PM »
I don't see in ruralguy's post(s) where he stated that he was barebacking.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline ruralguy

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #42 on: October 15, 2009, 09:35:46 AM »
I would never bareback with anyone....period...whether you inform them of your status or not, it is simply not something a poz person can do anymore.  That is is how poz people become poz and that is over.

Here is what I was suggesting:

In a anon situation, like a sex club for example:
- if you are on meds
- if you are undetectable
- if you take playing safe seriously (specifically use a condom for anal sex)
- and you have no expectation of any relationship
Then the risk of any transmission is nil. Then I suggest you don't need to tell your partner.  Furthermore, if you run into someone who does not play safe you are obligated to leave that situation and find someone else to play with.

Lastly it is certainly true that in doing this you run the risk of picking up some other STD but it is very unlikely to be hiv.  It is also true that there are legal issues in some places and not others.  And if you have any expectation of getting to know someone as a sex partner, lover, or just as a friend you need to tell them pretty soon or it is unlikely to be a successful relationship of any sort.

Responsible people in such an anon situation assume everyone is poz and that is how they stay safe.  I suggest poz people on meds and undetectable are probably some of the safest people to play with in such a situation as their health is regularly tracked.  Untested, untreated poz people are the worst, and they will be there too, so you have to protect yourself.

I haven't found myself in a situation like this and I think this forums are a good place to discuss it.  I read so much lasting fear of and withdrawl from sex here that it makes me wonder if it isn't so over-the-top as to be unhealthy.  A decent sex life is part of being a healthy person.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2009, 09:26:50 AM by ruralguy »
tested positive June 19, 2009
7/3/09 vrl 9000 cd4 - 300
8/14/09 cd4 - 350, 20%
started Atripla 9/14/09
10/5/09 vrl undetectable, WOW so fast!
12/28/09 vrl undetectable, CD4 - 615  27% cholesterol down, kidney function normal
4/26/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-600, kidney and liver numbers normal
9/9/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-685
1/3/11 vrl undetectable, CD4-700
all 2011 and Jan 2012 visits vrl undetectable CD4 ranged from 715-645
5/7/2012  vrl undetectable, CD4-615, all liver, kidney, lipids, heart functions, etc normal


On Atripla:  "Your mileage may vary"

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2009, 09:52:42 AM »
I read so much lasting fear of and withdrawl from sex here that it makes me wonder if it isn't so over-the-top as to be unhealthy.  A decent sex life is part of being a healthy person.

You got that one right.

Actually, short term celibacy is theoretically OK but only if one doesn't lose interest in sex, meaning specifically you still whack off daily (preferably with really raunchy German porn).  It's when you lose all interest in things sexual that it's indicative of depression.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline loop78

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #44 on: October 15, 2009, 12:59:47 PM »
In my opinion, our duty is to play safe. Using condoms correctly basically means transmission cannot happen.

Disclosure falls in another different category altogether. If you disclose, more power to you: it's a sign of strong character, contributes to fighting stigma and may be even better for you in the long run. It's a personal decision, a supererogatory act, not a duty.

I believe the opposite is lopsided and counterproductive.

We are all equally responsible for taking care of our health. It's not lack of disclosure what allows transmission, it's unsafe sex. We did not end up in this forum because someone (who might know he or she was poz or not) didn't say "hey, by the way, I'm hiv positive" while unzipping his/her fly, we did because we had sex without taking the appropriate measures to prevent transmission from happening. There is not such a thing as safe serosorting between neggies, precisely because being negative is just a supposition.

As long as neggies keep placing the emphasis in disclosure instead of doing it in safe sex as a personal responsibility, the number of pozzies will keep growing. When it's us, the positive, the ones who treat disclosure as if we were talking about a sacred duty, I can't help but wonder whether we are still dwelling on why we weren't told: blame and what if, what if, what if... It's time to move on.  ;)

And don't get me started with criminalization...  ;D

PS: FYI, I'm all for disclosing myself, but because it's my choice, not because I believe I should be obliged to.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 01:05:50 PM by loop78 »

Offline denb45

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #45 on: October 15, 2009, 02:07:42 PM »
You cannot assume everyone in this forum got HIV due to unprotected sex, some of us may have gotten it thur Blood transfusions, dirty needles, bad surgical equipment, believe it or not that still happens...you simply cannot say everyone in this forum who is POZ+ got it due to unprotected sex, that's a little unfair.......::)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 02:09:30 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline loop78

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #46 on: October 15, 2009, 02:27:51 PM »
I would say it's innacurate, not unfair. It's not like any type of transmission is the fairest of them all ;)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 02:29:59 PM by loop78 »

Offline ruralguy

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #47 on: October 15, 2009, 03:17:31 PM »
You cannot assume everyone in this forum got HIV due to unprotected sex, some of us may have gotten it thur Blood transfusions, dirty needles, bad surgical equipment, believe it or not that still happens...you simply cannot say everyone in this forum who is POZ+ got it due to unprotected sex, that's a little unfair.......::)

good point...I didn't mean to offend.

In my opinion, our duty is to play safe. Using condoms correctly basically means transmission cannot happen.

yep, 100% agree

tested positive June 19, 2009
7/3/09 vrl 9000 cd4 - 300
8/14/09 cd4 - 350, 20%
started Atripla 9/14/09
10/5/09 vrl undetectable, WOW so fast!
12/28/09 vrl undetectable, CD4 - 615  27% cholesterol down, kidney function normal
4/26/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-600, kidney and liver numbers normal
9/9/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-685
1/3/11 vrl undetectable, CD4-700
all 2011 and Jan 2012 visits vrl undetectable CD4 ranged from 715-645
5/7/2012  vrl undetectable, CD4-615, all liver, kidney, lipids, heart functions, etc normal


On Atripla:  "Your mileage may vary"

Offline Ann

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #48 on: October 15, 2009, 03:27:57 PM »

supererogatory


Cool word, Loop, thanks for using it. I had to look it up, something I rarely have to do because I'm such a word-nerd (armchair etymologist). ;D

I agree with what you said as well. Non-disclosure doesn't cause transmission, unsafe sex does.

Personally, I always disclose too, and yes, I also view it as a personal choice, not something that's obligatory. I've even used disclosure as a handy way to get rid of some schmuck in the pub who thinks he's god's gift and won't take a simple "no thank you" for an answer. It's usually jerks who are like that and jerks usually run a mile when they hear those magic "I'm hiv positive" words. :D Works like a charm. Disclosure is a very good asshole screening mechanism.

Ann

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #49 on: October 15, 2009, 03:39:19 PM »
I've even used disclosure as a handy way to get rid of some schmuck in the pub who thinks he's god's gift and won't take a simple "no thank you" for an answer.

Doesn't always work with homos I'm afraid.  If they're clingy types it can even backfire.  They think it makes you more desperate, in need of "mothering" and thus an even easier catch.  Then you have to try three times as hard to shake the toilet paper off of your shoe.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Ann

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #50 on: October 15, 2009, 04:03:33 PM »
Doesn't always work with homos I'm afraid.  If they're clingy types it can even backfire.  They think it makes you more desperate, in need of "mothering" and thus an even easier catch.  Then you have to try three times as hard to shake the toilet paper off of your shoe.

Oh dear, I can just imagine it! :-\  It backfired on me once, I have to admit. I think it made me seem even more of a challenge and a chance to hone his PC credentials. You know, so he could say something along the lines of "I've got no problem with pozzies, I even shagged one once!"

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline pos2007

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #51 on: October 15, 2009, 09:36:12 PM »
 i  want  to  clarify,  if  you  go  back  and read  the posts,  you  will see  that  ruralguy has  stated  several  times  he  uses  protection and  recommends  protection.  The  point  I  was  trying to  make is  that undectable  does  not  mean  you are unable to  transmit  virus.   Virus  transmission  is  possible  ,  even  below   quantifiable  detection  numbers. If  the  chance  were  nil  at  undetectable,  then  we  could   could quit taking our  meds at  that  point  w/o   having  viral  rebound  and  declare  ourselves  cured;   but  that  is  just  not  the  way  it  works.   I  also  want  to  tell him  that  no  offense  is  taken by those  of  us  that were infected by   blood transfusions and I appreciate your saying  what  you  said.  I  am just  trying  to  debate  the  subject  based  on  the  laws  and  facts and  in  no  way  want  to  judge  or  accuse  anyone.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 09:38:36 PM by pos2007 »
Diagnosed  CD4 138 VL. 38,000
Partner Diagnosed CD4 <20  VL.  488,000

Offline mecch

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #52 on: October 16, 2009, 12:20:01 PM »
i  want  to  clarify,  if  you  go  back  and read  the posts,  you  will see  that  ruralguy has  stated  several  times  he  uses  protection and  recommends  protection.  The  point  I  was  trying to  make is  that undectable  does  not  mean  you are unable to  transmit  virus.   Virus  transmission  is  possible  ,  even  below   quantifiable  detection  numbers. If  the  chance  were  nil  at  undetectable,  then  we  could   could quit taking our  meds at  that  point  w/o   having  viral  rebound  and  declare  ourselves  cured;   but  that  is  just  not  the  way  it  works.   I  also  want  to  tell him  that  no  offense  is  taken by those  of  us  that were infected by   blood transfusions and I appreciate your saying  what  you  said.  I  am just  trying  to  debate  the  subject  based  on  the  laws  and  facts and  in  no  way  want  to  judge  or  accuse  anyone.

This is gobblygook.  Undectable is considered non-transmissable by increasing numbers of scientists. Its controversial and hasn't impacted safe sex guidelines NOR criminal transmission and criminal non disclosure laws. 

And yes, you gotta KEEP taking your HAART to stay there. 
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #53 on: October 16, 2009, 12:27:34 PM »
This is a global forum. There are nations in the world where non disclosure is not a crime.
There are states in the US where you are not obliged to disclose HIV status.

This thread is filled with sloppy confusion of criminal transmission and criminal non disclosure.

There are many good reasons to disclose to any partner.  If you aren't willing to check the laws in your locale, then avoiding a crime may not be one of the reasons to disclose, if there is no law requiring you to do so.

ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #54 on: October 16, 2009, 12:43:42 PM »
This is a global forum. There are nations in the world where non disclosure is not a crime.
There are states in the US where you are not obliged to disclose HIV status.


The golden rule is pretty universal though.


Rephrased in this context:  Would you have rather been told by someone who knew they were Poz about their status before you were sexually active with them? 

Implementing is a bitch though.  What is "sexually active"?  Do you have to read the mind of the other person for a definition?  That's at the core of your question, and there's no easy answer except about who you are and who you aspire to be.
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #55 on: October 16, 2009, 01:17:39 PM »
The golden rule is pretty universal though.


Rephrased in this context:  Would you have rather been told by someone who knew they were Poz about their status before you were sexually active with them?

If I'd used a condom this question would have been rendered irrelevant, so I don't really understand this line of reasoning.  It's also amplified as irrelevant by the large multitudes that are infected by have never tested, which means you never actually have knowledge about what a partner has or doesn't have.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #56 on: October 16, 2009, 01:20:00 PM »

This thread is filled with sloppy confusion of criminal transmission and criminal non disclosure.


Mix that with self-anointed moralism and some psychological projection about their barebacking years of yore and you get a very nasty stew.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline mecch

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #57 on: October 16, 2009, 01:30:39 PM »
Merely responding to those in this thread who keep insisting you have to disclose by law.
It may not be the case.

As to "would you want the person to disclose to you?"
wake up man, smell the reality -- the answer of this old pro is that for more than two decades I followed safe sex rules with strangers and there were many many times it never mattered to me enough to ask and I probably neither wanted to or needed to know. It was assumed a percentage were positive. Period.

But, I'll give you this - when ASKED, there is no defense for lying then screwing.  I have been lied to and bitterly resented those people for the lie.  Including long-term partners.  Especially those.  And despite it being safe sex.

If you are positive, and someone asked you if you are positive, and you don't want to answer, then you can lie, but then you can't screw. You have to walk away.  Have to make up a excuse, like Marsha Brady, "something suddenly came up", and not screw.   Or you tell the truth and the potential partner gets to decide.  

If you are in the middle of the act, and some silly stranger asks if you are positive, well, if you are having safe sex, why not just say yeah brother and deal with the consequences.  Even then, if you feel like you might be in danger, I guess you can say "wow, you know how to spoil a hot moment" and zip up and leave without confirming or denying.

I've never been in an unsafe situation where the question came up.



ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #58 on: October 16, 2009, 01:35:14 PM »
If you live in one of those states where there are laws requiring disclosure of HIV, in any sex act, then none of this chat implies.  Always disclose, and while you are at it, get it in writing that you disclosed, cause it could come down to your word against the other.... All for nuthin. I'd move. Or get a partner, stay faithful, and get it in writing.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #59 on: October 16, 2009, 03:00:18 PM »
If I'd used a condom this question would have been rendered irrelevant, so I don't really understand this line of reasoning.  It's also amplified as irrelevant by the large multitudes that are infected by have never tested, which means you never actually have knowledge about what a partner has or doesn't have.

It's only irrelevant if you define the issue solely  in terms of transmission.  The OP is clearly struggling with expectations of people he meets.  

Your suggestion is that those expectations of disclosure do not matter if there is no risk of transmission.  But if one is dealing with people's expectations you may have to go beyond "no risk of transmission" to treat them as they wish to be treated.  Course the golden rule doesn't say you have to go so far as they would expect  -- and to meet some people's expectations you would need to wear a flashing HIV+ sign in every dark bar -- but you do need to get comfortable with what you would want to know in their situation.

Perhaps, Miss P, you have decided that the only time you would want to know would be if there was no condom.  That's great, but you are not the OP.  To feel good about this Bruh is probably going to need to think through what he would have liked, when he was on the other side of the question.  

It's probably situational -- a different answer in the bar from the sex club from the restaurant. 

Frankly the sex club is one of the easiest -- sdcabincrew nailed it (in one sense or another  :) ) in this thread.  http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=10999.msg137218#msg137218




edited to finish post

« Last Edit: October 16, 2009, 03:04:15 PM by Assurbanipal »
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #60 on: October 16, 2009, 03:20:04 PM »
Uh, no dear -- in that last post of yours that I quoted you were replying to meech.  The OP hasn't ventured in his own thread now for over a week.  Perhaps I misunderstood the context of what you were saying.

By the way, I disagree with thinking sdcabincrew "nailed it".  If I'm going to bareback with a partner, and definitely as the top, I need to know if they're positive or negative.  I'm not going to see some drunk/high guy that's not thinking clearly.  If others here are comfortable doing this then, well, I'm not sure what to say.  I'm not even sure if I want to read the rest of his post there.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2009, 03:57:50 PM by Miss Philicia »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline ruralguy

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #61 on: October 16, 2009, 03:35:38 PM »
Frankly the sex club is one of the easiest -- sdcabincrew nailed it (in one sense or another  :) ) in this thread.  http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=10999.msg137218#msg137218


Thanks for this Assurbanipal ....it is a long and interesting thread covering much of the same ground


tested positive June 19, 2009
7/3/09 vrl 9000 cd4 - 300
8/14/09 cd4 - 350, 20%
started Atripla 9/14/09
10/5/09 vrl undetectable, WOW so fast!
12/28/09 vrl undetectable, CD4 - 615  27% cholesterol down, kidney function normal
4/26/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-600, kidney and liver numbers normal
9/9/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-685
1/3/11 vrl undetectable, CD4-700
all 2011 and Jan 2012 visits vrl undetectable CD4 ranged from 715-645
5/7/2012  vrl undetectable, CD4-615, all liver, kidney, lipids, heart functions, etc normal


On Atripla:  "Your mileage may vary"

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #62 on: October 16, 2009, 06:00:12 PM »
Uh, no dear -- in that last post of yours that I quoted you were replying to meech.  The OP hasn't ventured in his own thread now for over a week.  Perhaps I misunderstood the context of what you were saying.

By the way, I disagree with thinking sdcabincrew "nailed it".  If I'm going to bareback with a partner, and definitely as the top, I need to know if they're positive or negative.  I'm not going to see some drunk/high guy that's not thinking clearly.  If others here are comfortable doing this then, well, I'm not sure what to say.  I'm not even sure if I want to read the rest of his post there.

Quoted mecch, replied to OP in context of mecch quote.  But ... whatever ... excess precision and all that .... :-*

Did I link to the wrong post in that long thread?  The point was that Sdcabincrew had found a way to disclose in a sex club setting (using language both memorable and concise).  And also I thought folks who were replying here that had not seen that thread might find it germane (and fun),
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline komnaes

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #63 on: October 17, 2009, 12:29:48 AM »
I don't see how one can interpret the OP was talking about expectations of others. He simply relayed his frustration of disclosing too readily, only to find out the person he disclosed to does not respect his privacy one bit. What does that get to do with expectation of whether potential dates and sexual partners would want to be be with one of us?
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline sensual1973

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #64 on: October 17, 2009, 02:53:48 AM »
to me this is a burden and a confusing subject.as much as i would like to tell and get it out of the way and feel that i have been honest as much as am worried that the other person will go spreading my hiv status to others who dont have the right to know.I only play safe and most of the guys i meet are for a one night stands.On the other hand,when i try to hook up with poz guys they all seem to want it unprotected :-( , i really feel isolated at times.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things i can not change.

Offline Ann

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #65 on: October 17, 2009, 03:35:46 AM »
I don't see how one can interpret the OP was talking about expectations of others. He simply relayed his frustration of disclosing too readily, only to find out the person he disclosed to does not respect his privacy one bit. What does that get to do with expectation of whether potential dates and sexual partners would want to be be with one of us?

I don't think anyone was really misinterpreting the OP, it's just that any time we pozzies discuss the issue of disclosure, all this other stuff is going to come into the discussion because it's all part and parcel. It's all related. It's a huge, difficult subject.

Some here think the constant discussions on disclosure are beating a dead horse, but we're all in different places on our journey with hiv and I like to think (hope?) that the more we talk these things through, the more people are going to personally benefit and take a few more steps forward, instead of backward, on their journey. Some of us are already through the woods of disclosure, some of us are in the thick of it, and some are on the path just outside the forest and petrified of entering.

Maybe we could call it the Yellow Brick Road of Disclosure. You're going to meet a witch or two on the way, and run into some scary trees and monkeys, but you're also going to meet some good friends too. In the end, hopefully you'll get to the Emerald City and from there, home. Of which there's no place like. ;)

And just because I can, I'd like to trot out my old chestnut - "the more we hide, the more we HAVE to hide."

Just my 2p.

Ann
« Last Edit: October 17, 2009, 03:41:01 AM by Ann »
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline komnaes

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #66 on: October 17, 2009, 03:54:37 AM »
Nice pre-emptive catch Ann... hence my admiration.  :D

Shaun, who's mellow at home and listening to Pletnev playing Debussy on a Sat afternoon...
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline debsd222

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #67 on: October 17, 2009, 12:49:42 PM »
Of course you do not in all situations. Depends on several factors.

Sorry to offer the contrary opinion, or to open this to a old argument.
Please check YOUR state's laws as to disclosure of HIV status before a sex act.
Also, check YOUR state's laws about HIV transmission.

If there are no laws saying you have to disclose, then you do not have to disclose.  If you transmit, it might be a crime, sometimes if you disclose, sometimes if you dont.

Those who say you are morally obliged to disclose, based on what code of morals, please?

Its a good idea to disclose.  Maybe its your moral code, so stick to it.

The guy who spread the news was a jerk.

On the other hand, lets take a "hook up" just for sex.  Or a place where people meet for sex, not cocktails and a potential boyfriend.  Sex club. Park, etc.

In my book, if you are having safe sex in such as situation, you are not obliged to disclose. On the other hand, if a guy asks you, even in such a situation, in my book, I would disclose, since you were asked. Or, just say, "none of your business" and stop having sex with the person, or don't start.  Leaves them in doubt - and you have confirmed nothing.

Disclosing in the above sex situations seems even less "morally" obligatory if you are on HAART and undetectable.   But, this may, or may not, be LEGALLY advisable, so check it out where you live, or screw around.

Voila. can of worms.


April 08 3 month bout w/ shingles, ongoing nerve pain
Dec 08 pos  cd4 200 %8  VL 18,000
Feb 09 started sustiva, truvada -allergic to sustiva, hospital 4 days.
March 09 started truvada, reyataz and norvir
March 09  cd4 279  % 12 VL 10,000
April 09 cd4 327  %12  VL 300
Aug 09 cd4 392  %16  Vl undetectable
Dec 09 hospital pneumonia 6 days
Dec 09 cd4 462  %20  VL undetectable
Mar 10 cd4 629 27% VL undetectable
July 9, 2010 cd4 505  21% VL undetectable
Oct 2010 cd4 689  22%  VL 64
Nov 2010  cd4689  22%  VL  UD
May 2013 cd4 759. 29%. VL. UD

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #68 on: October 17, 2009, 03:11:30 PM »
I don't think anyone was really misinterpreting the OP, it's just that any time we pozzies discuss the issue of disclosure, all this other stuff is going to come into the discussion because it's all part and parcel. It's all related. It's a huge, difficult subject.

Some here think the constant discussions on disclosure are beating a dead horse, but we're all in different places on our journey with hiv and I like to think (hope?) that the more we talk these things through, the more people are going to personally benefit and take a few more steps forward, instead of backward, on their journey. Some of us are already through the woods of disclosure, some of us are in the thick of it, and some are on the path just outside the forest and petrified of entering.

Maybe we could call it the Yellow Brick Road of Disclosure. You're going to meet a witch or two on the way, and run into some scary trees and monkeys, but you're also going to meet some good friends too. In the end, hopefully you'll get to the Emerald City and from there, home. Of which there's no place like. ;)

And just because I can, I'd like to trot out my old chestnut - "the more we hide, the more we HAVE to hide."

Just my 2p.

Ann

Damn Ann that is deeeep...  I like the Yellow Brick Road of Disclosure analogy......  A very positive outlook indeed.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline elf

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #69 on: October 18, 2009, 09:26:57 AM »
When I was HIV negative, I didn't really expect someone to tell me: Hey, I'm HIV positive.
Here in Europe most countries haven't criminalized a nondisclosure (Only Norway has).

After my being diagnosed, a counselor at the HIV clinic told me: you don't have to disclose but you have to use condoms...

I think I don't even have to disclose anything because I think that everyone knows about my status, with only 500 cases and only 1 HIV clinic in this country, everyone who saw me entering this clinic knows I'm HIV+, and information spread very quick in this tiny country Cr.oatia is (especially in the gay community that is much like ''National Enquirer'')

Furthermore, the only person I disclosed was the best friend of mine (a lesbian), but she ran away from me, and told everyone I know (and don't know) about my status.

Now, I live hiding.

So, having a sex with someone here is a big no no.

I've never been a ''sexual'' person, but more of a romantic one, so it's even more difficult...I do think (subjectivelly speaking) one should disclose if relationship is (going to be) involved, even tho' I do think one should not necessarily have to disclose in a ONS situation...


The moral of the story: I was sexually active from 1999-2008, 9 partners (3 of them were boyfriends), with the last partner a condom was not used: and I tested positive.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2009, 09:47:44 AM by elf »
I got GRID on GRInDr

Offline Suga

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #70 on: October 18, 2009, 09:15:31 PM »
I go throught the same thing! Now I have to be extra careful of whom I deal with at all. It is a hard task. And if someone ask me that I did not tell I tell them no. Not because I am trying to hide something but because I feel it is none of their business. >:(
So I've been upfront when meeting someone new that I'm HIV+ and up until recently, I haven't had any issues.  Well recently I told this guy I was and he told SEVERAL people about my status and it's starting to spread like wild fire!  So many people don't disclose thier status which I always thought was wrong, but now I'm start to actually understand why they don't.

How can people expect you to be upfront if they are going to be so malicious about your status?

Offline pos2007

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #71 on: October 18, 2009, 11:04:30 PM »
 I'll  put  it  this  way  when  you  say that   you are 100%  safe  using  a condom.   My  wife  and  I   have  both  heard about several kids  that  were  born  in  our  area;   their  parents  saying  they  weren't  planned,   the  condom   broke.   As I've  stated  here B4,   you  should  try  to  be careful,   but  sometimes  sht   just  happens. As  to  the  comment  if  you  are  undetectable  you  can't spread  the   virus:  Sweden   announced  that  last   winter;   a  month  later a study  came  out  that  disproved  the Swiss theory. Read  the  past  issues  of  Aids meds  and  POZ.  it   is  in  there.  Like  I  said,  it  often depends  on  what  meds  you  are on  and  if   the  meds   pass into your genitals (  prostate/ testicals/  cowpers glan/ seminal  vesicals).  Some  drugs  don't.  I'll  go  one step further.  Having AIDS  from  being  HIV  pos.  sucks. Been  there.  I  know.  I  would  not  wish  on  my enemies.  Anyone  that  is  willing   to "chance"  exposing   someone else  without  disclosing  w/o  giving  them   the  opportunity  to  decline  is  an  ass.  End  of  story.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2009, 11:17:53 PM by pos2007 »
Diagnosed  CD4 138 VL. 38,000
Partner Diagnosed CD4 <20  VL.  488,000

Offline edfu

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #72 on: October 19, 2009, 12:22:46 AM »
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline elf

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #73 on: October 19, 2009, 11:16:19 AM »
Even If HIV is detectable in semen, the risk of transmitting the virus from a HIV+ ''bottom'' person to a HIV- ''top'' person in MSM sex is very low if the condom is used.

In ideal world, everyone would disclose his/her HIV status with ease.
But the world is not ideal, here where I live most people have 1980/1 level of knowledge on HIV/AIDS, even the gay community (which is more HIV+ unfriendly than the str8 community):

http://www.aiha.com/en/ResourceLibrary/Publications/CommonHealth/pdf/2005%20-%20Spring/13%20Inaction%20in%20the%20Face%20of%20HIV%20Fosters%20Discrimination%20--%20Croatians%20Decide%20to%20Take%20Issue%20Head%20On.pdf
« Last Edit: October 19, 2009, 11:32:34 AM by elf »
I got GRID on GRInDr

Offline ruralguy

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #74 on: October 23, 2009, 05:42:23 PM »
I just read this on Gallant's John's Hopkins website - read what he says about
.....
Undetectable viral load

Joel E. Gallant, M.D., M.P.H.

Posted on Oct 20, 2009
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have read in this forum that there have been no known documented transmission of the HIV virus when undetectable. Is this true? Does pre-ejaculation carry the same risk as full ejaculating during intercourse or oral sex?

On Oct 21, 2009 Joel E. Gallant, M.D., M.P.H. replied:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe that is still true. The risk with pre-seminal fluid ("pre-cum") is lower, because boththe amount of HIV and the quantity of fluid are lower. However, there is HIV in preseminal fluid.

http://www.hopkins-hivguide.org/q_a/patient/recent_questions/undetectable_viral_load_.html?contentInstanceId=506420&siteId=7151
tested positive June 19, 2009
7/3/09 vrl 9000 cd4 - 300
8/14/09 cd4 - 350, 20%
started Atripla 9/14/09
10/5/09 vrl undetectable, WOW so fast!
12/28/09 vrl undetectable, CD4 - 615  27% cholesterol down, kidney function normal
4/26/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-600, kidney and liver numbers normal
9/9/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-685
1/3/11 vrl undetectable, CD4-700
all 2011 and Jan 2012 visits vrl undetectable CD4 ranged from 715-645
5/7/2012  vrl undetectable, CD4-615, all liver, kidney, lipids, heart functions, etc normal


On Atripla:  "Your mileage may vary"

Offline pos2007

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #75 on: October 23, 2009, 08:37:36 PM »
Please  use a condom.  I  know  condoms are  just about as  desirable as a garbage bag tied around  your  head,  but  think  about  it.  How  many  of  us  would  not  have Hiv now if someone somewhere  in  the  past   would   Have  put  a rubber  on  his  willie? Would  my  wife  have received  infected blood?   Maybe  not.  Would  I  have  contracted  the  HIV?  probably  not. If  you  have  no  regard for  yourself or your partners,  ??? please  have some regard  for  others so  they  can  give  you the same  mutual respect.  ;)
Diagnosed  CD4 138 VL. 38,000
Partner Diagnosed CD4 <20  VL.  488,000

Offline elf

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #76 on: October 23, 2009, 09:25:39 PM »
If I ever choose to have sex again, I will make sure the condom is used and no (condomless) oral sex is performed on me.  :)
I got GRID on GRInDr

Offline ruralguy

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #77 on: October 24, 2009, 09:02:01 AM »
No question about using condoms...of course one should.

Nonetheless the statement supported by Gallant that there has been "been no known documented transmission of the HIV virus when undetectable" is pretty incredible.  He is, after all, a world class expert and we are not.

Gallant, in reponse to another question, does not even recommend PEP in the case of accidental exposure in a discordant couple when the + person is undetectable.     See:  http://www.hopkins-hivguide.org/q_a/patient/recent_questions/pre-ejacualation_risk_-_undetectable.html?contentInstanceId=502561&siteId=7151

Please do not misunderstand....I agree condom use is always a must. 

But I also think people should get past some un-necessary fear of sexual relations after they are on treatment. 
tested positive June 19, 2009
7/3/09 vrl 9000 cd4 - 300
8/14/09 cd4 - 350, 20%
started Atripla 9/14/09
10/5/09 vrl undetectable, WOW so fast!
12/28/09 vrl undetectable, CD4 - 615  27% cholesterol down, kidney function normal
4/26/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-600, kidney and liver numbers normal
9/9/10 vrl undetectable, CD4-685
1/3/11 vrl undetectable, CD4-700
all 2011 and Jan 2012 visits vrl undetectable CD4 ranged from 715-645
5/7/2012  vrl undetectable, CD4-615, all liver, kidney, lipids, heart functions, etc normal


On Atripla:  "Your mileage may vary"

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #78 on: October 24, 2009, 10:50:35 AM »

But I also think people should get past some un-necessary fear of sexual relations after they are on treatment. 


You're not kidding! Some people here are so sex-negative. It's depressing.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline denb45

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #79 on: October 24, 2009, 11:47:28 AM »
You're not kidding! Some people here are so sex-negative. It's depressing.

Ann

Yes......Life does continue, even after yrs of treatment, it's never the end of one's sexual desire's wants and needs, at least I hope it isn't  ???
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline BlueMoon

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #80 on: October 24, 2009, 08:24:35 PM »
You're not kidding! Some people here are so sex-negative. It's depressing.

Ann

Regarding man to man sex at least, HIV is a minor hindrance at worst to an active sex life.  Nor is it necessary to 'settle' for sex only with other poz guys, although that is my personal preference.
...................VL.....CD4.....%
-----------------------------------------
08/10-- ......<40.....290.....42
05/10-- ......<48.....290.....46
02/10-- ......<48.....481.....44
10/09-- ......<48.....277.....46
07/09-- ......<48.....300.....38
05/09-- ........51.....449.....39
03/09-- Added Isentress
02/09-- ........65.....299.....34
11/08-- ........62.....242.....40
08/08-- ........66.....212.....29
05/08-- ......202.....217.....27
03/08-- ....5210.....187.....21
02/08-- Began Truvada/Reyataz/Norvir
12/07-- 273,000.....157.....22
11/07-- 229,000.....209.....22
10/07-- Diagnosis

It's a complex world.

Offline pos2007

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #81 on: October 24, 2009, 09:34:23 PM »
I read  this  whole  thread and  I  can't see where anyone  is  "sex negative"  I  see  where  unsafe sex  is  promoted  and  safe  sex  is  promoted and there is  fear of  having sex since being  diagnosed.  Personally  I  pray   the day comes when I can  have  sex  again   and  hope  all   the rest  of  you  can  get all  you  can take as  long as  you don't  put  yourself or  others at additional  risk.   having  been in  the  position  of  not  being  able  to  have  sex   due  to  complications  from  surgery years  ago and more recently from a prostatectomy,  I am  in  the  position  to  know  what  it  like  to  not    'get any'.  Very  depressing not  only  for  me , but  my  partner. And yes,   even  though  using a rubber sucks,  we did practice  safe sex  when  having sex became  possible again in  the  past to prevent  each  other   further  misery   from  exposure   to  differing mutations  of  the  HIV  and additional  HIV med  changes  even  though we orignally started  out  with  the  same mutations.  No sex- no.  ??? Safe sex - yes.  ;) Lots  of  safe sex-  yes,  yes ,  yes.  ;D ;D  Come on  people,  just  think  about  it,   you don't  go  out  and  shovel  snow  barefoot  and  only  wearing  a thong.  You  put  on  shoes,  coat  and   gloves to  protect  yourself from   frost  bite.  It  makes  the  same  sense  to  dress  your  little  buddy  for  protection  too.   Edit: 10/25/2009 I  usually  have  many edits because  I  can't  seem  to  get  my  fingers  and   brain  to  work  togetr to  correct spelling  and  words  in the  wrong  place.  It  has  been  called  to  my  attention  that there appears  to  be  no  posts promoting  unsafe  sex.  Either  that  has   been  edited  out in  the  many  edits I see  here or  I  am  answering  the  wrong  thread.  Either  way ,  having re-read this  entire  thread I see  that  there is at  least  the  question or implication  that  it  may  be  possible  to   not transmit  HIV if  your viral  load  is <48 which only  means  the amount  of  virus  in  yur  blood  is too  low  for  the  test  to detect. Sweden anounced earlier  this  year  that undectable  meant  that  it was  o.k.  to  have  unprotected  sex. A  month  later POZ  had an  article that  that  theory  had  been  disproved and  it  was not  safe to  have  unprotected  sex.  A  link  to  that article was  just  posted  in  another thread  the  other  day.  At any rate  this entire  thread  has digressed off topic.  The  guy  that went around  blabbing    is  still  an  ass. The ability  to  have  sez in  my  opinion  is partly responsible for aloowing  us  to keep  our mental  sanity.  The subconscious/conscious  fear  of  taking  risk can errode that bit of  sanity  over  time.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2009, 01:41:06 PM by pos2007 »
Diagnosed  CD4 138 VL. 38,000
Partner Diagnosed CD4 <20  VL.  488,000

Offline amonra23a

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #82 on: October 26, 2009, 03:37:33 PM »
was thinking maybe disclosure is the way to go for me.  I just meet a dude who is neg. im poz undetectable on HAART for a yr.  Any good tips on when the better time is to disclose?  Upfront and right away or after you think it might go somewhere.  Sex play, where is the line?  Any sex play safe?  First time having to disclose just a little guidance need.

Offline BlueMoon

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Re: Do I tell everyone I'm sexually active with, I'm Poz???
« Reply #83 on: October 26, 2009, 04:37:17 PM »
Amonra, what is 'safe' depends on who you ask.

What counts here is what he thinks is safe.  So if your goal is to establish a trusting relationship, you should disclose your condition before any sex.  Then you can work out between yourselves what you're both comfortable with.  

I don't have much to offer for how to go about it.  Probably an oblique reference in your conversation, such as an upcoming doctor's appointment, or time to take your pill(s), might be easiest.  I wonder how you know his HIV status, but he not yours.

Anyway, good luck!

Edit to add: Welcome to the forum.
...................VL.....CD4.....%
-----------------------------------------
08/10-- ......<40.....290.....42
05/10-- ......<48.....290.....46
02/10-- ......<48.....481.....44
10/09-- ......<48.....277.....46
07/09-- ......<48.....300.....38
05/09-- ........51.....449.....39
03/09-- Added Isentress
02/09-- ........65.....299.....34
11/08-- ........62.....242.....40
08/08-- ........66.....212.....29
05/08-- ......202.....217.....27
03/08-- ....5210.....187.....21
02/08-- Began Truvada/Reyataz/Norvir
12/07-- 273,000.....157.....22
11/07-- 229,000.....209.....22
10/07-- Diagnosis

It's a complex world.

 


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