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Author Topic: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate  (Read 9524 times)

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Offline clayface

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Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« on: October 01, 2009, 02:52:28 PM »
Hi everybody, first of all thanks for the chance you give people to place questions and fears, what you do is really helpful.
My history is the following: I'm an argentinian gay guy, 26 years old, being in a relationship for about 5 years. We used to have threesomes very usually, always protected sex, but we gave oral sex to a lot of boys without using condom.
My boyfriend (also 26) started having some serious liver pain, so he went to his doctor, who prescribed a few tests, including hiv. The results were back, and the doctor says there were something wrong with some values in is hematogram test. The ELISA test was negative, but the doctor said that their lab didn't have the latest version of that test, so she prescribed another ELISA, a 4th generation one, done in some other place.
According to this, my boyfriend had an ELISA 4th generation, and the result was "UNDEFINED". They also did a confirmation one, and it was algo "UNDEFINED". a few doctors and health professionals talked with him, and tell him that there is a high chance (they said something about a 99%) that he is infected, and that this is propably a recent infection, because of the little amount of antibodies the test revealed. The western blot confirmation will be in a week or so.
Of course, i decided to have the test myself, i had my last one on January and it was negative. This morning i had my ELISA 4th generation, and the results will be for tomorrow afternoon. At this point, i'm pretty sure we're both positives (i'm bottom and we do not use protection when having sex between us). We love each other and we will face this together, at least for now. Actually, the threesomes we used to do was a way for us to be honest with each other having the chance to have sex with other people, and assuming the risks as a couple. We never cheated on each other, and we both believe this.
I'm a little bit confused about the undefined type of result. Because what i think is, if you have in your blood even a little bit of hiv antibodies, i would say you are infected, so there would be no reason for that undefined result.
Could anybody honestly tell us if there is any hope that my boyfriend coul not be infected? Seems like after all it is possible to get the virus by giving unprotected oral sex. Of course we stoped having sex since we suspected there could be something wrong.
I'll keep you posted about our final results, and I want if possible to be in touch with you guys and also help if there is something that i can do on this forum. Thank you so much for your time.

Offline Ann

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Re: My boyfriend got n undefined result in his ELISA 4th generation test
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2009, 03:03:59 PM »
Clay,

By "undefined", I assume you mean "indeterminate", which is the more usual term. Sometimes when a person tests very early on in a new infection, an indeterminate result happens. This is because not enough antibodies have yet formed. An indeterminate which is actually a positive will generally turn fully positive within a week or so.

Indeterminates are very commonly false. So yes, there is a good chance that your partner's result is false. Various things like underlying autoimmune disease can cause this, as well as pregnancy, or a faulty or mis-handled test.

He should have another antibody test in about a week, followed by a Western Blot if he gets another indeterminate or positive result. If he gets a negative result, which is possible, he will need no further testing at this time.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline clayface

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Re: My boyfriend got n undefined result in his ELISA 4th generation test
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2009, 04:29:46 PM »
Clay,

By "undefined", I assume you mean "indeterminate", which is the more usual term. Sometimes when a person tests very early on in a new infection, an indeterminate result happens. This is because not enough antibodies have yet formed. An indeterminate which is actually a positive will generally turn fully positive within a week or so.

Indeterminates are very commonly false. So yes, there is a good chance that your partner's result is false. Various things like underlying autoimmune disease can cause this, as well as pregnancy, or a faulty or mis-handled test.

He should have another antibody test in about a week, followed by a Western Blot if he gets another indeterminate or positive result. If he gets a negative result, which is possible, he will need no further testing at this time.

Ann

Ann, thanks for your answer. you've given me a little hope. The reason i'm so negative about it, is because of what the health providers said to my boyfriend, they didn't even give a little chance that this could be some kind of false positive, due to another affection. They just said that the 4th generation of the ELISA test is so specific that it only reacts when hiv antibodies are actually found, so they just told that he's already infected and only the western blot confirmation is needed to fully accept that fact. I promise to post here my results tomorrow, and my boyfriends' when we have those. Thanks again.

Offline clayface

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Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2009, 05:46:38 PM »
Hi everybody. I posted yesterday on the "just test poz" section, because that was what the doctors told my boyfriend (you can read the full story there, by the title "my boyfriend got an undetermined result in ELISA 4th generation test").
I'm writing here now because no infection was fully confirmed yet, and as I talked with kind Ann yesterday, I just got my results from the lab, and the ELISA dated 10/01 is not reactive (i know it means i have not developed the antibodies yet, but there is still risk). I had sex with my boyfriend without using condom and being bottom last time on 09/23, and that was our last intercourse.
As I related yesterday, he started having serious liver pain, so he was prescribed to test for HIV, and he got an INDETERMINATE result, on both, the first ELISA and the confirmation one. The doctors told him that it was 99.5% probable that he is infected. They sent the blood test to a Capital City for a Western Blot and the results will be back in one week.
So, i was wondering if there is something I could do to confirm my state, or the only chance is to just  wait a few months and then do another ELISA. Of course, I'm also very concerned about my boyfriend too, his all-life doctor told him when he started with this liven pain and by seing an hematogram test, that a lots of values were wrong, and he could be having hiv, Lupus or another autoinmune disease.
I was wondering if you could give me some light on this, what would be the best thing to do in a situation like this one, because maybe my boyfriend is actually negative, and we are losing time that could be spent trying to fight whatever it's he has.
Thank you so much, and I'm here if there is something I can do for anybody else here in this forum.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2009, 06:10:12 PM »
Let's keep this as simple as possible. If your bf tests negative then his doctor needs to find out what is causing his symptoms. There is nothing HIV specific about anything you are reporting. And we can't diagnose anything in this setting.

As for yourself, if you haven't had a clearly unequivocal negative or positive result, at 13 weeks past the most recent unprotected incident, then you ought to have western blot done.

Wishing you good luck with getting this straightened out and testing negative.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2009, 06:22:54 PM by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline clayface

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2009, 06:55:48 PM »
Let's keep this as simple as possible. If your bf tests negative then his doctor needs to find out what is causing his symptoms. There is nothing HIV specific about anything you are reporting. And we can't diagnose anything in this setting.

As for yourself, if you haven't had a clearly unequivocal negative or positive result, at 13 weeks past the most recent unprotected incident, then you ought to have western blot done.

Wishing you good luck with getting this straightened out and testing negative.

Thanks Andy, I was wondering if taking PEP could do any good at 10 days from our last unprotected incident. Maybe it's even not recommended, because my bf haven't had a fully positive yet... just wondering...

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2009, 07:13:12 PM »
nPEP has to be started within 72 hours of possible exposure with a person known to be HIV positive.

Offline Ann

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2009, 06:59:38 AM »
Clay,

I didn't realise you'd originally posted in the I Just Tested Poz forum. Until either of you has been definitely confirmed as positive, the Am I Infected forum is the only forum you should be posting in. Sorry for the confusion. I usually work off the "all unread" page - that's why I didn't notice where you'd posted.

You can ask your boyfriend's doctor why tests for lupus etc aren't being done in the meantime. It seems rather presumptuous for them to be assuming hiv infection when he hasn't had a firm positive result. As I said to you before, autoimmune illnesses can and do cause false positive hiv antibody tests.

You're just going to have to hang tight and wait for confirmatory results. Be proactive and urge your doctors to investigate other illnesses. It's all you can do at this point.

As for you, the vast majority of people who have actually been infected will seroconvert and test positive by six weeks, with the average time to seroconversion being only 22 days. From what you've written so far, I do honestly expect your bf to ultimately test hiv negative - and you too.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline clayface

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2009, 03:26:28 PM »
Thank you very much Ann and Andy. My bf and I will go to his doctor on monday in order to start will all the other tests needed. As for me i'm a little bit in peace with myself right now, for my negative result. I would also like to note how surprising can be the feeling of autopreservation, because, even if I can sound so selfish (and i also felt a little guilt about this), from the moment I was aware of our situation, all i wanted to do was saving my own ass (sorry for the expression), at least on the first place (and i repeat, I will be with my boyfriend no matter what, but i just wanted to post the first feeling i had with this, along with so many others). Of course, i will repeat the test within a few weeks, because i know there is nothing sure yet, and in the meantime, neither will or want to have any kind of sexual activity... and of course will suport my bf to try to get this straight once and for all.
I have been reading a lot of posts and it's really incredible how a person can freak out and start obsessing and believing to be really infected, when actually has never done a single thing that could led to such infection. And also i have noted that you guys are very patient with such people.
All I can say to everyone else is to take the protection needed when having sex, and try to live their lifes as good as they can, because you never now when it's going to be over, and hiv as nothing to do with it. Also it could be very nice to encourage people to practise a lot of sexual activities that can be as pleasing as sex itself, without involving any kind of risks (i think we need to rediscover the pleasure of kissing and mutual masturbation, for example).
I'll keep in touch and post again when I have anything new about our situations. Thank you so much again, and sorry if my English can be a little bit rough sometimes... my native language is Spanish!

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2009, 04:47:39 PM »
We don't have any problem here with autopreservation. I'm glad you tested negative. Keep it that way by always using condoms in the future.

Hopefully your bf will test negative as well. Fingers crossed. Keep us posted.

Cheers.
Andy Velez

Offline clayface

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2009, 07:41:39 PM »
Hi there. I would like to learn about something. I was having a few doubts about viral load. the frist would be if there is a direct relationship between amout of viral load and risk of infection, the second is when does a hiv+ person have the highest viral load? and the begining of the infection when no medication is taken and this would led to the statement that the virus is replicating itself faster and without boundaries? Or once some time has passed and this way we could think that the medication is used precisely to slow the replication of the virus?
Because i read that some people test positive with a high amount of viral load, even being sure that they were infected just a few months ago, a some others detect the infection with also a high amount of viral load but five or six years before the moment of the seroconversion. I think i just answered myself.... it depends on each person, right? Thanks again.

Offline Ann

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2009, 06:52:36 AM »
Clay,

Yes, it does to an extent depend on the individual. However, it is very common for a newly infected person to have a very high viral load during the first six month to a year. Some people can then go years and years with a fairly low viral load, while others see their viral load go high in less time.

Try to not worry too much about this stuff until you know one way or the other if either one of you is infected. I know, easier said than done, but do your best.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline clayface

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2009, 03:00:06 PM »
Hi guys... it's me again. My boyfriend went to her doctor, and we have nothing new... he's got orders to repeat all the tests again with an infectologist, but even his personal doctor keep on insisting it's hiv for sure... don't know what else to do. This situation is complicating our existence, it's the uncertanties that are killing us... we have discussions everywhere, both of us are not in any kind of good mod since all of this started.
I know it's going to take another week with his new prescriptions... so, i wanted to now if there is any test that could be done to define once and for all our status. I read there are a few more expensive and specific tests that could even detect if there is a little bit of viral load in your blood. Could you please enlight me into that direction?
The other thing is, i forgot to ask you what does the "CLIA" method is indeed? because in my negative test from last friday i see that in the "method" field it says "CLIA". I was wondering if it is ELISA 4th generation anyway, and if it is a reliable test and not one of those rapid ones... (because they gave me my results just one day after).
Thank you very much and hope to hear from you soon.

Offline Ann

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2009, 07:47:44 AM »
Clay,

The only tests that can confirm hiv infection are the antibody test, followed by a Western Blot. The "more specific" test you refer to would be an RNA PCR test, but even with this test, a person is not considered hiv positive until they've had the antibody and Western Blot confirmation. Sorry, but there are no short cuts.

The only "CLIA" I know of refers to Clinical Laboratory Improvement Amendments. However, I can tell you that rapid hiv tests are reliable and most of the ones available on the world-wide market place are fourth generation. The generation doesn't matter all that much anyway.

I know it's difficult, but try to get on with your lives while you wait for the test results. Fretting over them isn't going to change the outcome.

Keep us posted.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline clayface

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2009, 05:39:55 PM »
Hi again. Thanks for the answer.
My boyfriend finally got a team of professionals decided to treat his case. They are 3, an inmunologist, an infectologist and a gastroenterologist. They were a little more optimistic than the other ones, and he is going to start with a few test tomorrow morning. The inmunologist thinks it's not HIV, however, and three of them think it's a chance, and we're wainting for the western blot confirmation that is arriving on the 13rd. The infectologist sujested i could try some kind of antigen p24 test (hope you can give me some knowledge on this). He also said that this test is known for giving false positives, so it's really up to me if i want to do it to. I was wondering if a negative result on this test is more reliable that an ELISA's negative. I already consulted about it and it's not an expensive test (more expensive than the elisa but still afordable for me). Could you suggest what could be better to to? Should I take this test or just wait for my bf westernblot and in a month take another ELISA? Hope to hear form you soon. Thanks.

Offline Ann

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2009, 08:36:34 PM »
Clay,

The p24 antigen test is often included in today's rapid tests. I've not heard of there being a problem with false positives. At the end of the day, there really is no replacement for a negative antibody test when done at the appropriate time. As I told you earlier today, there is no short cut when testing for hiv infection.

From all you've told us, I really do expect this to be a case of either test failure or an underlying, previously undiagnosed autoimmune illness. You are just going to have to bide your time and wait for the test results. I'm sorry I can't speed the process up for  you.

Hang in there.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline clayface

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2009, 12:21:24 PM »
Hi there.. it's me again. A little update of our situation. By recommendation of my bf's infectologist, I toke the ELISA again for HIV antibodies and also p24 antigen. Both results were negative, this being around 20 days from my last unprotected sexual intercourse with my bf.
We're expecting to receive his western blot on tuestday, so I'll make sure to keep you posted about this. In the meantime, my bf has started to develop somekind of lung pain, and has already taken r-ray in order to discuss all the results together on tuesday with his doctors.
The infectologist said I shouldn't be worried about myself with my results, she says I'm negative for sure... but I'll be taking the test again one month from now.
About the relationship itself, it's not good at all. My bf says that I treat him as if I was seeing the death itself everytime we meet, and I know he's somehow right about it. All of this came up with a confession that he made telling that he has sex just one time with someone else in the last three months. According to him, there was no oral, just protected penetration with him being top. It's all too hard for me, I feel I cannot believe him anymore, because I truly feel he has done that more than just one time. And he tells me that this is only an excuse to get rid of him, because I don't want to deal with him being sick.... whatever it's he has.
Thanks again for your time, hope to hear from you soon.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2009, 01:12:12 PM »
It's good to hear you've collected a negative, albeit not a finally conclusive one. But nevertheless each time you get a negative it's encouraging.

You have to think about what you want to have happen between you and your bf and how you envision the future together.

Are you two talking honestly and directly with each other? Doing that is what will help to maintain intimacy between the two of you during this very stressful time. 
Andy Velez

Offline clayface

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2009, 02:12:03 PM »
Sorry for being so insistent with this, but I would like to know the reaches of the hiv tests. I read that the antigen p24 only last for the three first week in the body of an infected person, which after that time starts to develop the antibodies. For example, considering my situation, and knowing that my last unproteced intercourse was 20 days ago, if the tests determine that i have neither the p24 antigen nor the antibodies, wouldn't it be meaning that i have good chances to not being infected? Which other situations should I be considering as possibilities? (I mean, what else could happen that can make both my test have a negative result at this point and eventually turn positive in the future?). I know i didn't even have a fully confirmed positive from my bf side, but anyway i would be very thankful if you please answer this question. Thanks again.

Offline clayface

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2009, 05:48:16 PM »
Hi everybody, it's me again.
I have a little update of the situation. My bf's WB has not yet arrived, we're having several problems with the institution which sent it, because they are having like a strike and it's something that started 3 weeks ago, they simply don't see people and don't give any result.... pathetic.
In the meantime, I asked my bf to do another elisa in a private lab, and today he got the results... it was Indeterminate again... It this common for an HIV infection? I mean, his first indeterminate was 3 weeks ago, and now he gets another Indeterminate. Wouldn't it be reactive by now? I have read that the indeterminate state only lasts for a week or so... then if it is an HIV infection it becomes a fully reactive result.
I didn't take any test again, I'm wating for a few more days to pass, I wanna take the next at 6 weeks, but so far at 3 weeks from my last unprotected intercourse with him I'm negative on both ELISA and p24.
Could you please give me an honest thought about all of this? It's getting really confusing.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2009, 10:02:10 AM »
The average time to seroconversion is 22 days. Your negative at 3 weeks is encouraging.

As Ann suggested, make a concerted effort to get productively busy with other things in your life. That will help the waiting time until your 6  weeks test to go faster than you may imagine is possible.

We're awaiting both of your results.

Cheers.
Andy Velez

Offline Ann

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2009, 10:42:03 AM »
Clay,

You're correct, an indeterminate result should have turned into a firm positive in three week's time if the person is indeed infected. The fact that your bf got another indeterminate points to the very real possibility of this being a false positive caused by an underlying condition.

Good luck getting that Western Blot test back. I can imagine this strike is very frustrating for you both.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline clayface

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2009, 05:30:42 PM »
Guys, you won't believe what happened now...

They decided to retest my bf with the antibodies test, the first one says CLIA and the second ELISA 4th generation.... both are reactive now.... does this take our hopes away?
Now another western blot has been prescribed, and we have to keep waiting. In the meantime, my bf has developed some fever.
Should you suggest I test again tomorrow? I don't know what else to do, i don't even want to think of it anymore.

Thanks again for your time.

Offline Ann

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2009, 06:14:27 PM »
Clay,

One thing hasn't changed - the fact that your bf will not be diagnosed as hiv positive until he's had a positive Western Blot as well. You can test tomorrow if you want, but even if you do test positive yourself, it still doesn't mean much until that result has been confirmed by a WB. The more you test, the bigger chance of getting a false positive.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline clayface

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2009, 05:40:29 PM »
Hi there. My bf had a new extraction, and a new western blot is going to be ready for thrusday. I'm planning to have a new test maybe tomorrow, will depend on how I feel about it when I wake up.
Just wanted to ask you about the risks of giving oral sex, i know it's a problematic subject by itself. Because both infectologics that attended my bf told him that there is indeed risk, a lower than by having unprotected vaginal or anal, but a risk anyway. I would like to know what is your opinion about this, and if there would be any diference if you give the oral just with your lips and tongue instead of going deeper to the throat (the infectologists pointed that there is a higher risk if the pennis get in contact with the tonsils and you are known for having tonsils infections or cuts and openings in your tonsils). Because honestly, in the last three months we've been just with 3 guys and there was just oral sex without cumming (and then my bf confesed me that he was with a guy just for a single time, and there was no oral, just protected anal). Will keep you posted when i have news. Thanks again.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2009, 05:48:20 PM »
There's been so much back and forth and all sorts of details. Ultimately it comes down to you and your bf getting tested and getting clear and conclusive results.

Although I can appreciate you wanting reassurance or clarity, throwing in more details for guessing about isn't going to give you that.

Good luck with the tests. We'll be waiting to hear further from you.
Andy Velez

Offline clayface

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2009, 06:12:28 PM »
Thanks Andy, I do honestly appreciate your answer. But I also noticed that there is somekind of resistance to accept the fact that there is actually risk of getting infected with hiv by giving oral sex. I know this is a complicated subject, but I also noticed that you don't have any problem with replying somebody that has asked 50 times believing to be infected when actually there has been no risk. By the other hand, I believe our situation to be more serious than those and my questions to be truly fundated, and eitherway, when I ask about giving oral sex or the reaches of the tests (the p24), there seemed that nobody was willing to answer that and quickly avoided the questions. Please don't take this the wrong way, you have been very kind since the day I first got in touch with you. I ask all of these questions because, as you stated, i need reassurance and clear facts about how hiv is contracted and hiv testing. Thanks again.

Offline Ann

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2009, 07:00:06 PM »
Clay,

I don't see anywhere that you asked any specific questions about the p24 test, so it's not really like anyone has been avoiding questions about it - there were no clear or specific questions to avoid. If you want to know about the individual tests used for hiv diagnostics, I suggest you read the Welcome Thread before posting like you're supposed to, and follow the Testing Lesson link found there. If you have specific questions concerning the p24 after you read the lesson, come back here to your thread and ask. But please, make sure your questions are obvious questions, so you don't think we're avoiding anything. We'll answer you to the best of our abilities.

As for giving oral, as long as you have good oral health, giving blowjobs isn't a risk. Not only does saliva contain over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect, but also the very few, very specific cell types that hiv is able to infect are not found in abundance in the mouth.

I agree with Andy that speculation and reassurances are not going to give you any concrete answers. Only your test results will. You're just going to have to hang in there another couple days. I'm not trying to be mean or dismissive in saying that, it's just the reality of the situation. The ONLY way to accurately know your hiv status is by going through the proper testing procedure and awaiting the results. It may not be easy, but it's the only way. I do realise that you've had to wait longer than normal, but that is due to circumstances outside the control of ANY of us. It's unfortunate, but, well, shit happens, eh? Good luck.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline clayface

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2009, 11:09:26 AM »
Hi there, just wanted to let you know that being today the ending of the six week first period, i just had another antibodies test, I will have the results tomorrow and I will let you know how it went. My bf also is going to have the results of his western blot tomorrow, so I guess some uncertainties will be over by tomorrow.
Just wanted to ask if antibiotics could interfere in my test results, because I'm having sinusitis and my doctor prescribed some Azithromycin for it, which I've been taking for the last two days. I have the right side of my neck with the swollen lymphatic glands and some sort of pain in the right ear, of course I can't help thinking it is related to hiv infection, but my doctor said I should relax because he thinks at least for now it's because the other infection.
That's all, just hope my phone doesn't right with an unknown caller because this lab uses to call when there's something wrong with a test.
Will post again as soon as I have news. Thanks for everything so far.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2009, 01:21:45 PM »
Antiobiotics won't affect the accuracy of your HIV test.

Good luck.
Andy Velez

Offline clayface

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2009, 04:54:22 PM »
Ann and Andy, finally I've got our results here. My ELISA test at 6 weeks is negative, you cannot imagine how happy I am... I know there is still some road ahead, but I also know it's a very encouraging result. Unfortunately, my bf's western blot was positive, 9 reactive bands against one non reactive. So... I think there is no doubt now about him. I had the hope he could also get a negative result, but I have to face the Truth now.
This is it for now, no more testing for me at least for a few months, you cannot imagine how stressed I am. Everytime you have to receive a result is the worst moment of your life. I deserve a rest.... and so do you, thanks for being always there, thanks for helping me clarify my doubts.
My last question is, even considering we're not having any kind of sexual contact now, should we keep an eye on something else in the daily life? for example, tooth brushes, razor blades... etc. Of course we don't share those, but I want to know if there is a chance of being infected with those elements in case one mistakenly uses the others'. Thanks again.

Offline Ann

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2009, 05:19:58 PM »
Clay,

There are plenty of serodiscordant (poz/neg) couples in the world and the only thing they do to protect the negative partner's negative hiv status is to use condoms for intercourse. And that's it.

As for sharing toothbrushes and razors, you shouldn't be doing that anyway, even if you were both negative. It's bad hygiene to share personal hygiene tools. However, that doesn't mean you have to keep your toothbrushes or razors from even touching each other, just don't share them.

There's something that I always tell people in this forum and it absolutely applies in your case: Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE!

And by the way, I do not expect your negative results to change.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2009, 06:03:32 PM »
That's great news about your negative test result. Just follow Ann's directions consistently and you'll stay HIV negative.

Cheers.
Andy Velez

Offline clayface

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2009, 06:44:06 PM »
Hi there, it's been a few weeks since the last time we spoke.
My bf and I are trying to keep our lifes going on together, and I just wanted to ask a few questions about the kind of sexual relationships we can have right now due his diagnosis. We didn't have any kind of penetration yet, just handjobs and he gave me oral once. I know for what i have been reading in this forum so far, that those should't be risk situations for me, but he wanted reassurance. I gave him handjob and he came on my hand, then i washed my hand right away. Being he the one infected is there any kind of risk if he gives me oral? Sorry for the details, but this is going to be helpful for both of us so we can continue sharing some intimacy. His CD4 and viral lodad will be ready for next week. I will post the results here as soon as I have those. If you want to move this topic to the "someone i care about" section there will be no problem. I have to test myself again in a few weeks to get my final 3 months result. Thanks again for your kind patience.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2009, 06:51:19 PM »
There is no risk to you if your bf gives you oral. No guy has ever been confirmed to have been infected in that manner and it's one of the most common of sexual activities.

Nor are the other activities you mentioned any risk.

All you guys need to to do is to consiistently use condoms for anal intercourse and you'll be ok.

Cheers.
Andy Velez

Offline clayface

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2009, 11:13:25 AM »
Hello there, it's been some time. My bf's results just came today: CD4: 505 (19%), VL: 10.330.
I am kind of surprised, I really thought they were going to be better.... anyway, I would like to know your opinion about them. He's having an appointment with his doctor on Wednesday, and they will decide what to do from now on. Does this kind of viral load exposes me to a higher risk if we have non risks sexual activities? It's really difficult to try to have some kind of sexual contact. Sorry for being so selfish and keep asking about myself, but I can't get pass the idea will eventually be also infected... if we have some sexual contact, it's then hard for me to sleep at night, I keep on thinking and dreaming about if there was something I shouldn't have done. do you honestly think my 6 week negative gives me a good chance of not being infected? I'm still waiting to repeat the test... Thank you very much again, and hope to hear from you soon.

Offline Ann

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2009, 11:39:36 AM »
Clay,

Yes, I honestly think your six week negative means you're going to confirm that negative result when you test at the end of the window period.

There's no reason why you two cannot have sex. Just make sure you're using condoms for intercourse and using them correctly. Have you read the condom and lube links in my signature line? A correctly used condom prevents hiv infection and is unlikely to break. His viral load does not matter if you are using condoms.

As for your questions about your partner's numbers, this isn't the appropriate forum in which to discuss them. You may repost them in the Someone I Care About Has HIV forum. All I will say here is that they are pretty good numbers for so early in infection and do not indicate the need for treatment at this time.

I do expect you to continue to test negative, provided you have been using condoms for any intercourse since you first discovered he may be poz. Keep using them and you won't have a problem. There are many poz/neg couples - and the negative partner remains negative through condom use.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline clayface

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2009, 01:14:55 PM »
Hi there, this is just to tell that my 13 weeks test came back negative. Thanks for all the support, it was really helpful, hope you finish this year with joy and my best wishes for you both, Ann and Andy.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2009, 04:12:58 PM »
That's happy news at long last. Just make sure  you guys consistently use condoms for anal intercourse and you will continue to be HIV negative.

Cheers.
Andy Velez

Offline clayface

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2010, 10:54:13 AM »
Ann, Andy, hello again. It's been some time. Things are starting to get better with my bf, everything seems to be chilling out as the days pass. We went to his infectologist and discussed about our sexual activities and what should be consider safe to do... he insisted that oral can be a risk, and recommended that my bf uses a condom if i want to give him oral sex... And for now we have been using condom even for oral.
I have been reading the lessons over and over, and i would like to quote this:

"There have been three case reports and a few studies suggesting that some people have been infected with HIV as a result of unprotected oral sex. However, these case reports and studies all involved men who were the receptive partners (the person doing the "sucking") during unprotected oral sex with another HIV-positive man"

They do affirm that there is a chance of getting infected by giving oral sex... but I read you guys have stated many times that there is risk only with unprotected vaginal and anal.
My question is what kind of injuries should be consider as dangerous speaking about oral health. For example, if I eat a sandwich and I get my gums irritated, that could be an effective way to get infected if i give him unprotected oral? I want to know all I can about this situation, because obviously i don't want to get infected, but also because i know that if i get infected my bf will have to carry not only with his situation but also with the guilt of have passed the virus to me, and i now that would be too much for him to handle. And my last question, he insists that he contracted the virus by giving unprotected oral to a man he knows to be positive... and I don't really know what to believe, the question is still the same... Is giving oral a risk? what is to be consider bad oral health in order to have the risk? Thanks for your time.

Offline clayface

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #40 on: January 21, 2010, 10:13:40 PM »
Hi there... didn't have any reply from you guys.... could you please give me some advice into this? thanks.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2010, 02:40:04 AM »
Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2010, 08:36:46 AM »
Our position here is that giving oral is a theoretical risk but that in the real world of HIV an infection  virtually never occuirs in that manner.

What are the potential risks? Really extremely poor oral care and a gaping, fresh wound in the mouth, the latter hardly being the circumstances during which you would be giving oral. It is possible that having cum in your mouth might increase the risk level.

Longterm studies of sero-discordant couples, both gay and straight, have involved lots of mutual and unprotected oral and only protected vaginal/anal intercourse. To date not a single sero-negative partner has become infected.   

So what does this mean for you? Could you become infected giving oral to your partner? Yes. Is it likely? Absolutely not. Giving oral to an HIV positive partner with an undetectable VL makes the risk even lower. Remember, your saliva has over a dozen proteins and elements which very effectively inhibit the transmission of viable HIV. Considering that oral sex is one of the most common of sexual activities we would have known long before today if it  is a serious risk.

What it comes down to is you and your partner have to decide what your comfort level is about this issue. We can't make that decision for you.
Andy Velez

Offline clayface

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Re: Testest negative but my boyfriend indeterminate
« Reply #43 on: January 22, 2010, 02:08:29 PM »
Thanks Andy... don't know why RapidRod reacted that way, I don't think I'm posting excessively, I just wanted information for a complicated subject and wanted to double check the information on "safer sex" section. Thanks again.

 


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