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Author Topic: Probiotics increasing CD4 count?  (Read 4590 times)

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Offline pozzitive

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Probiotics increasing CD4 count?
« on: November 04, 2009, 07:34:08 PM »
Does anyone know or have tried anything like this?

This is what I found online:
http://nybc.wordpress.com/2007/09/25/probiotics-bifidus-in-hiv-kids-boosts-cd4-count/

http://www.thebody.com/content/art52570.html

Anyway I started taking a daily dose of PROBIOTICS a while ago and I am curious to see my next lab results.
Has anyone tried this?

POZ since 2000 \ Truvada and Viramune

"I can be changed by what happens to me. but I refuse to be reduced by it.”

deuxlapin@gmail.com

Offline Nestor

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Re: Probiotics increasing CD4 count?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2009, 08:13:34 PM »
I eat yoghurt regularly, as well as other lactic acid-containing things such as fermented vegetables (I make my own kimchi), miso and so forth.   I have no idea if it's doing anything for my t-cells; it isn't with that idea in mind that I eat them.

  I often think I should "test" these things by eating lots of one thing before one blood test, and lots of something else before another, but there would be no way to control for so many other possible influences and simply for normal fluctuation. 
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: Probiotics increasing CD4 count?
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2009, 11:14:41 PM »
I have been taking probiotics for years, even before I was poz. I think it's very important, there are several studies that support this. I also think fiber is very important as far as having a healthy gut.

Offline pozzitive

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Re: Probiotics increasing CD4 count?
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2009, 02:03:40 AM »
Sounds good, I do believe that a healthy gut is a MUST!
POZ since 2000 \ Truvada and Viramune

"I can be changed by what happens to me. but I refuse to be reduced by it.”

deuxlapin@gmail.com

Offline AndyArrow

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Re: Probiotics increasing CD4 count?
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2009, 02:45:32 AM »
I eat yogurt & take a probiotic daily.

My HIV doc didn't have a strong opinion either way -- waiting for more studies.

However because I have GERD/Erosive Esophagitis & Gastroparesis my GI doc said probiotics were a MUST.  Make sure that you taking ones that pass through the stomach and are activated in the small intestine to recieve the most from them.
It is not the arrival that matters.  It is the journey along the way. -- Michel Montaigne

Offline Tempeboy

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Re: Probiotics increasing CD4 count?
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2009, 03:28:31 AM »
Cool thread,

There's mounting evidence from research - supporting what many have been saying for years.

Recent research shows clearly that most CD4's are lost in the gut - where most of our lymphatic system lives.  The mechanism is related directly to HIV and the imbalance in flora and function that the virus and treatments are known to cause.

Bovine colostrum is also being tested.  This was presented at ICAAC -  http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/2009icr/icaac/docs/092209_d.html

The saccharides (sugars) can be found in a prebiotic, the organisms in a probiotic and there are a few supplements that contain both as well as bovine colostrum.  Only draw back is if you are lactose intolerant - if you are the bovine colostrum can cause gas.

Roughly roundabout somewhere in the eighteenth or nineteenth century, Sodomite begat Homosexual out of moral, medical and legal models, bequeathing him Identity, who inbred with Nuclear Family and Industrialism to spawn Homophobia.

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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Probiotics increasing CD4 count?
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2009, 10:13:54 AM »
My lab numbers would indicate that a lack of probiotics increases CD4 count.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline PozBrian

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Re: Probiotics increasing CD4 count?
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2009, 09:00:48 PM »
I've been eating a probiotic yoghurt every day for about the last tow months after a fight with clostridium. No increase in my CD4's yet. However, I will say a normal poo is one of life's under-rated pleasures. You don't always appreciated it until you've had a bout with serious diarrhea.

Hmm wonder what Freud would say about that.  :D
3/8 CD4: 495, 31%, VL UD
2/1 CD4: 564, 20%.VL UD, switching to Issentress & truvada
10/11 CD4: 446, 29%, VL UD
7/11 CD4: 873, 35%, VL UD
4/11 CD4: 573, 34% VL 0
12/10 CD4: 405, 30% VL UD
9/10 CD4: 416, 31% VL UD
5/10 CD4: 393, 29% VL: UD
02/10 CD4: 423, 37% VL: UD
11/09 CD4: 379, 25% VL: UNDETECTABLE!!
10/09 CD4: 245, 25% VL: 87
9/09 CD4: 246, 24% VL: 49!
8/09 CD4: 277, 26% VL: 115
7/09 CD4: 346, 24% VL: 221
6/09 started Atripla
5/09 CD4: 326, 16%  VL:125000
4/09 HIV +, CD4: 397, 16%  VL:195000, PPD reactive

Offline pozzitive

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Re: Probiotics increasing CD4 count?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2009, 09:42:11 PM »
When you have diarrhea do you still take probiotics though?
POZ since 2000 \ Truvada and Viramune

"I can be changed by what happens to me. but I refuse to be reduced by it.”

deuxlapin@gmail.com

Offline Ann

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Re: Probiotics increasing CD4 count?
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2009, 12:54:54 PM »
Probiotic have never put a dent in my hiv-related diarrhea. I tried them and gave them a good few months.  Wish they did something for me, but the only difference I noticed was in my wallet. :-\

Well, that's not altogether true. When I have to take antibiotics, I also take probiotics and it helps with the antibiotic-related thrush. Otherwise, I see no difference. Your probiotic mileage may differ.

Ann
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Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: Probiotics increasing CD4 count?
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2009, 08:19:34 PM »
Probiotic have never put a dent in my hiv-related diarrhea. I tried them and gave them a good few months.  Wish they did something for me, but the only difference I noticed was in my wallet. :-\

Well, that's not altogether true. When I have to take antibiotics, I also take probiotics and it helps with the antibiotic-related thrush. Otherwise, I see no difference. Your probiotic mileage may differ.

Ann

Seeing no visible difference, in terms of diarrhea improvement, doesn't mean there are not many benefits happening "inside" that are just not easy to quantify.

The following is a list of some of the known benefits of probiotics:

Hydrocarbons are broken down by probiotic bacteria which means the food is being split into its most basic elements. This allows almost total absorption through the digestive system. In this way probiotics dramatically increase overall nutrition and enhance rapid cellular growth and development.

The intestinal tract is cleaned by probiotics. They go under the layer of crud on the intestinal walls, attach themselves and dislodge the accumulated decay. This waste is then flushed out naturally.

Probiotics also produce many important enzymes and increase the availability of vitamins and nutrients, especially Vitamin B, Vitamin K, lactase, fatty acids and calcium.


Continued. . .

LINK:

http://www.upwardquest.com/probiotics-benefits.html

Offline pozzitive

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Re: Probiotics increasing CD4 count?
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2009, 01:35:31 AM »
I do get bloated and with a lot of gas, is that common?
POZ since 2000 \ Truvada and Viramune

"I can be changed by what happens to me. but I refuse to be reduced by it.”

deuxlapin@gmail.com

Offline madbrain

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Re: Probiotics increasing CD4 count?
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2009, 06:10:42 AM »
Does anyone know or have tried anything like this?

This is what I found online:
http://nybc.wordpress.com/2007/09/25/probiotics-bifidus-in-hiv-kids-boosts-cd4-count/

http://www.thebody.com/content/art52570.html

Anyway I started taking a daily dose of PROBIOTICS a while ago and I am curious to see my next lab results.
Has anyone tried this?




I have tried various probiotics since the summer of 2007. The one I take currently is acidophilus, which is one my doctor likes, and it's also fairly inexpensive compared to many proprietary probiotics.

The specific one I take is NOW acidophilus 3 billion stabilized (that means no refrigeration needed). It's 3 billion CFU per tablets. I take 2 a day. At that dose it's less than $5 a month.
http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Acidophilus-Three-Billion-Stabilized-180-Tablets/383?at=0

I can't tell how much effect it has specifically on my labs, but I can't complain about my CD4 counts.

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: Probiotics increasing CD4 count?
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2009, 09:57:13 AM »
There are several varieties of good bacteria, acidophilus is one of them. I've read that depending on the variety, they colonize different parts of the intestinal tract so that in order to cover the whole thing it's best to get a fuller spectrum. Vitamin Shoppe has a product called Ultimate 10 Probiotic which has 10 different varieties. It doesn't need to be refrigerated and it's not that expensive.

These products don't need to be taken every single day, especially if one has dairy as part of one's diet. I take mine every other day or so. Ultimate 10 costs $19.99 for 100 capsules, which is not bad, especially if not taken every day.

I also occasionally give it to my dogs.

LINK:

http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/en/browse/sku_detail.jsp?id=VS-2164

Online Dachshund

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Re: Probiotics increasing CD4 count?
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2009, 10:23:30 AM »
When I first started on HAART I washed my meds down with vodka. My CD4 count skyrocketed. I suggest Grey Goose, but please consult your doctor first.

Offline BassMan

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Re: Probiotics increasing CD4 count?
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2009, 11:36:41 AM »
When I first started on HAART I washed my meds down with vodka. My CD4 count skyrocketed. I suggest Grey Goose, but please consult your doctor first.

Funny you should say that, Dachshund. Over the years I've tried taking all sorts of stuff - probiotic drinks included - to try to boost my cd4 count; selenium, astragalus, coconut oil, green tea - you mention it! I have to say that I haven't really noticed any difference, my numbers usually hovering around the 600 mark. The only thing I have noticed that seems to make any difference at all is enjoying myself and having a stress-free time.

For example, in October I went on holiday to Gran Canaria for a week. I spent the days lounging by the pool, and spent the nights drinking (way too much) vodka and Red Bull, doing -ahem! - recreational substances, partying hard and staying up till dawn, eating all the wrong things and doing no exercise. By the end of the week I was exhausted. The day after I got home I was due my six-monthly blood draw. I was dreading the effect all that hedonism would have on my numbers. The result? My highest ever cd4 count of 888.

Go figure.

Carl,
Manchester, UK

PS: This information is provided for interest only and is not a recommendation ;-)

Edited for typos.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 11:45:26 AM by BassMan »
Diagnosed December 2002
CD4 810 VL 750,000

Started meds October 2004
CD4 405 VL >100,000

Latest Results: October 2009
CD4 888 38%, VL undetectable
on fosamprenavir/ritonavir & Truvada

VL undetectable since November 2005

Offline GNYC09

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Re: Probiotics increasing CD4 count?
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2009, 09:59:26 PM »
Quote
PS: This information is provided for interest only and is not a recommendation ;-)

Sorry, I'm taking it as a recommendation  ;)

Offline GNYC09

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Re: Probiotics increasing CD4 count?
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2009, 10:07:19 PM »
There are several varieties of good bacteria, acidophilus is one of them. I've read that depending on the variety, they colonize different parts of the intestinal tract so that in order to cover the whole thing it's best to get a fuller spectrum. Vitamin Shoppe has a product called Ultimate 10 Probiotic which has 10 different varieties. It doesn't need to be refrigerated and it's not that expensive.

I drink Kefir, which allegedly is more probiotic than yogurt, with different bacterial strains that colonize deeper in your intestinal tract and for a longer period of time.  It tastes like fizzy yogurt.  I recommend it.  It's very tasty!

Offline Nestor

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Re: Probiotics increasing CD4 count?
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2009, 10:13:44 PM »
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline LBpozguy

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Re: Probiotics increasing CD4 count?
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2009, 10:31:15 PM »
Vitamin Shoppe has a product called Ultimate 10 Probiotic which has 10 different varieties. It doesn't need to be refrigerated and it's not that expensive.

I just ordered some and I'll let ya know how it goes!!!

LB
Feb 08 neg
Sept 08 - First poz test
Sept 08 CD4 558 (% unk) VL 11000
Dec 08 CD4 480 (29%) VL less than 700
Mar 09 CD4 370  VL 25000
June 09 CD4 425 VL 68000
Aug 09 Started Atripla
Sept 09 CD4 639 VL 100
Nov 09  CD4 716 (35%) VL Undet!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jan 10 CD4 685 VL UND

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: Probiotics increasing CD4 count?
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2009, 11:40:04 PM »
From Nestor's link above:

  
With this in mind, Critchfield is helping recruit people with HIV for a small clinical trial to assess the effects of probiotics with added fiber.


Let's not forget the fiber, people. ;)

I just ordered some and I'll let ya know how it goes!!!

LB

Don't expect anything dramatic, you might not notice much. Plus, this is the kind of thing that could take take a while (probably weeks not days) for real benefits to kick in.

I've taken probiotics as well as fiber for a long time (since before the HIV) and I've never had any GI issues at all, even after starting meds.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 12:35:30 AM by Inchlingblue »

Offline Nestor

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Re: Probiotics increasing CD4 count?
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2009, 12:27:22 AM »
I'd like to point out that taking probiotics need not and in fact probably should not take the form of something that's specially packaged and sold as a probiotic.  Any traditional lacto-fermented dish, such as kimchi, saurkraut, traditional pickles, some chutneys, yogurt or kefir or some traditional drinks (beet kvass!) ought to have a lot of friendly bacteria in them.  However, with things like saurkraut and pickles it is important to distinguish between traditionally made ones, which are lacto-fermented and which have not been pasteurized, and modern mass-produced ones which have simply been soaked in vinegar and have no beneficial bacteria at all.  All people should have a certain amount of this stuff in their diet to facilitate digestion and someone who's had antibiotics should have a great deal. 

This article about something I care a lot about--the struggle to obtain real milk--is rather long, but in the middle there is a fascinating comparison between Dannon's "probiotics" and unpasteurized milk:

http://harpers.org/archive/2008/04/0081992
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

 


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