Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
E-newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr MySpace
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
September 15, 2014, 08:55:14 PM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 638879
  • Total Topics: 48501
  • Online Today: 282
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?  (Read 4635 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,782
  • Smart ass faggot ©
Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« on: August 21, 2009, 02:52:46 PM »
I keep seeing and reading a lot about this athlete.  I wonder what the final outcome will be.  If Semenya is indeed a female she deserves one serious apology.



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/david_epstein/08/21/semenya/index.html?eref=sihpT1#
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline Cliff

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,645
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2009, 03:07:25 PM »
I assume she is who she says she is..can't just say cause she's manly that she must be a man.  Has the IAAF not seen some of the women competing in shot put?

But perhaps a clue is in her name!

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2009, 03:18:36 PM »

But perhaps a clue is in her name!


Like a boy named Sue?
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline megasept

  • Member
  • Posts: 478
  • Steven here...
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2009, 03:37:24 PM »
I assume she is who she says she is..can't just say cause she's manly that she must be a man.  Has the IAAF not seen some of the women competing in shot put?

But perhaps a clue is in her name!

Caster may be among the <1% (higher rate evident among Bantu; anyone, why is that?) that are somewhat ambiguous sexually. Gender is not only determined by physical appearance (genitalia), but genetic factors.

South Africa's ANC says the investigation is racist. Other S African commentators have made more thoughtful statements.

What's sad is 1) Whatever she is, Caster was born this way, so this is not a MtF taking unfair advantage of gender segregation in high-level athletic competition 2) She is a gifted athlete with a great attitude. 3) If she's banned entirely from competing as a female, on the balance, that would seem unfair 3) There are others like her. 4) She's probably not doping with testosterone like the (victimized) female athletes of the old GDR (East Germany).

Probably a whole new set of rules/formulas need to be written, but maybe that would INCLUDE athletes like her and EXCLUDE MtF gender-reassigned individuals, or folks "doping" with hormones/steroids, etc.

The alternative is for men and women to compete together, and I don't see many advocates of that.

If Caster sets a new world record, some other female athlete will beat it soon enough. Some folks have longer legs, but a few short athletes race faster anyway.

We aren't yet ready socially, for what science reveals. The chasm may increase.

8)  -megasept


« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 03:39:35 PM by megasept »

Offline GSOgymrat

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,022
  • HIV+ since 1993. INTJ
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2009, 04:10:09 PM »
Why can't they just do a genetic test?

Offline Merlin

  • Member
  • Posts: 642
  • As My WILL, So MOTE It Be !
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2009, 06:45:54 PM »
She looks all woman to me.  :)
Have seen some ladies before with similar masculine features but somehow you can sense they are women. 8)
I'll leave Hatred to those not strong enough to Love.

                            +++

Believe & The Power Of The Mind Transforms.
Make It Happen...

                            +++

I blame them for nothing.
I forgive them for everything.

---->> Mary J. Blige on dysfuctional parents

Offline Cliff

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,645
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2009, 07:14:43 PM »
Like a boy named Sue?
Well, more like girl named SEMENya.  Bad joke.   ;D
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 07:26:51 PM by Cliff »

Offline Cliff

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,645
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2009, 07:26:01 PM »
Why can't they just do a genetic test?
They have, but the results take a while and they aren't certain even when those results are returned.

From what the IAAF have said they need experts to judge the results of anatomy, physiology, chromosomal makeup and genetic composition of the athlete.  This isn't a clear cut area, apparently.  The outcome is based on a decision by a panel not one particular test.

Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,782
  • Smart ass faggot ©
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2009, 07:29:05 PM »
Update, Caster got a make-over and now she is all lady-like.  See below.



Embattled track star Caster Semenya gets new coach, new look

"Gender-tested South African star Caster Semenya gets a makeover for a magazine photo shoot. "
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline GSOgymrat

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,022
  • HIV+ since 1993. INTJ
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2009, 11:53:29 PM »
Isn't it magical how a makeover can solve almost any problem!

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,650
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2009, 10:27:51 PM »
Genetic test. Maybe she is ambiguous. 

If she is ambiguous, then the sports committees can decide what to do generally in such situations.
There are reasons sports competitions are split for the genders.  Maybe we want to change that, or not, who knows. 

If sports stays with the status quo (most competitions remins split by gender) - and she is ambiguous, I vote sorry for her, its not fair to other women.

IF, the big if, she is ambiguous, she has evey right to define herself as she wishes but competition is another matter. 

What with all the gender transitioning these days, these questions are never easy and general rules are hard to come by.  Institutions make their own.  I think transexuals of both genders are acceptable at all-women's colleges these days.  Don't know if they can compete interscholastically, however.  And so on and so on. 

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Dale Parker

  • Member
  • Posts: 266
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2009, 12:46:54 AM »
There is a report on MSN.foxsports.com that a Sydney Australia newspaper says she has both male and female sex organs.  The IAAF has the gender report but has not read it yet and has declined to comment at this time.
Apr 09  CD4 21, CD4/CD8 ratio 0 VL 500,000+
July 09 CD4 158, CD4/CD812% VL 750
Oct 09 CD4 157 CD4/CD8 14% VL UD
Feb 10 CD4 197, CD4/CD8 11% VL UD
May 10  CD4 252 CD4/CD8 12% VL UD
Aug 10 CD4 211 VL UD
Nov 10 CD4 272 CD4/CD8 0.138 VL UD

Offline HollyStar

  • Member
  • Posts: 344
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2009, 01:09:29 AM »
http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/10051660/Report:-Semenya-has-male,-female-sex-organs?GT1=39002

I just feel sad for her, that such personal information is now out the there for the entire world to see. I'll be curious to see if she will be allowed to compete anymore.

There is a comment area in the link above and I was dumb founded by some of the ignorant and cruel comments. Some people!
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 01:15:02 AM by HollyStar »
Diagnosed  July 28th 2003

'I don't want to get to the end of my life and find that I just lived the length of it. I want to have lived the width of it as well.' -Diande Ackerman

'Why not go out on a limb? Isn't that where the fruit is?' -Frank Scully

'If your ship doesn't come, swim out to it.' - Jonathan Winters

Offline next2u

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,762
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2009, 01:11:52 AM »
yeah, that report is coming out in a number of news sites and wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_Semenya

where are our intersexed/ts people? i dunno how i feel about this one. i mean, shit, it's not like she knew. i understand the logic behind stripping her of her medal, but i dont agree with it.

midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline next2u

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,762
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2009, 01:19:09 AM »
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?

definitely woman - she has identifies as female.
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline GNYC09

  • Member
  • Posts: 702
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2009, 08:30:14 AM »
Fox isn't known for having the most open-minded or sophisticated readership.  The nasty comments are what I'd expect to read/see on one of Rupert Murdoch's properties.

Offline David_CA

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,246
  • Joined: March 2006
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2009, 08:58:20 AM »
yeah, that report is coming out in a number of news sites and wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_Semenya

where are our intersexed/ts people? i dunno how i feel about this one. i mean, shit, it's not like she knew. i understand the logic behind stripping her of her medal, but i dont agree with it.

From what I understand, they're not planning on stripping her of her medal.  If this is the case, then why the big to-do?  A quote on the wikipedia page listed above mentions a "..."rare medical condition" giving her an unfair competitive advantage".  Sun Ming Ming had excess growth hormone (hence his 7'9" height) due to a pituitary tumor.  He had the tumor removed, as the growth hormone was causing other issues that would effect his performance.  Should he not be allowed to play basketball?  Certainly a pituitary tumor would be classified as a 'rare medical condition' which gave an unfair advantage.

(edited for a damned typo)
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 01:45:18 PM by David_NC »
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,650
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2009, 01:23:01 PM »
i mean, shit, it's not like she knew.

Could you clarify this please. She didn't know what? That she is hermaphrodite?  That's hard to believe, given that she is a world class athelete and been surrounded by sports physicians.

That she didn't understand the controversy that would stick to her participation in gender specific competitive sports?  Again, please. If she didn't know, her trainers certainly did.

She made a decision to pursue a career in competitive sports and has a right to her day in "sports" court, or whatever may be the governing body - she has a right to argue for participation as a female, male, or whatever. 

But to expect it to be a non issue is ridiculous.  Better it is forced and sports comes to term with intersex.

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline megasept

  • Member
  • Posts: 478
  • Steven here...
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2009, 03:06:17 PM »
Could you clarify this please. She didn't know what? That she is hermaphrodite?  That's hard to believe, given that she is a world class athelete and been surrounded by sports physicians...Better it is forced and sports comes to term with intersex.

Right. Gender-integrated competition is not viable.

Many people defy absolute male or female medical classification. But few have been classified as hermaphrodites. Social taboo?

Wiki is closer to fact than Fox News, but not the Holy Grail.

Caster could expect controversy, like POZ who speak out, and a few hundred million other misfits worldwide. She has my full support (even if some of her supporters go off the deep end).
 
8) -megasept
 
PS For all its failings, post-Apartheid South Africa has one hell of a constitution, protecting all its citizens.

« Last Edit: September 11, 2009, 03:08:49 PM by megasept »

Offline Cliff

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,645
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2009, 06:46:00 PM »
I'm with you, David.  I don't think it's so black and white as some are making it out to be.  I don't know her and so I think it's a bit unfair to suggest she should have known she was a hermaphrodite.  Who knows what she knew or believed?  Cut her some slack.  This has got to be a terrible and embarrassing time for her not to mention the way the IAAF handled it was pitiful.

Anywho, I think most top athletes have some sort of unfair genetic advantage.  Michael Phelps and Usain Bolt are freaks of nature!  Ban 'em, I say.  OK, maybe not Michael but at least ban Usain.  I'm so damn tired of Jamaicans winning everything in a sport that used to be dominated by Americans. 

From what I understand, they're not planning on stripping her of her medal.  If this is the case, then why the big to-do?  A quote on the wikipedia page listed above mentions a "..."rare medical condition" giving her an unfair competitive advantage".  Sun Ming Ming had excess growth hormone (hence his 7'9" height) due to a pituitary tumor.  He had the tumor removed, as the growth hormone was causing other issues that would effect his performance.  Should he not be allowed to play basketball?  Certainly a pituitary tumor would be classified as a 'rare medical condition' which gave an unfair advantage.

(edited for a damned typo)

Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,782
  • Smart ass faggot ©
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2009, 06:55:04 PM »
Update below from Sports Illustrated.  I can tell that this whole debacle is going to take a major psychological and professional toll on this poor girl.   As noted in the article, I seriously doubt that she knew about "internal male organs." How would anyone even imagine that unless determined by a doctor?  People are being quite cruel out there.  In my opinion she should not be stripped of any wins; I cannot see how "internal male organs" would have given her any edge.  Not like one's penis is of any use while running track.


Semenya withdraws from event amid firestorm of anger

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/more/09/11/semenya.withdraws.outrage/index.html

excerpt:

Quote

The South African Press Association quotes her coach, Michael Seme, as saying she will not take part in the 4,000 meters at the national cross country championships in Pretoria on Saturday.

He had said earlier this week that Semenya would run.

Asked Friday why she withdrew, Seme said she was "not feeling well."

Gender tests on Semenya determined she has internal male sexual organs, Australian newspapers reported Friday, triggering new outrage from South Africa and her father, who called her critics "crazy" and "sick."

The International Association of Athletics Federations, which ordered the testing, refused to confirm or deny the reports in the Sydney Daily Telegraph and the Sydney Morning Herald that Semenya is a hermaphrodite with no ovaries and internal testes that produce large amounts of testosterone.

The IAAF said it is reviewing the test results on the 18-year-old runner and will not issue a final decision until November.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/more/09/11/semenya.withdraws.outrage/index.html#ixzz0QqEIKIQH
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline GNYC09

  • Member
  • Posts: 702
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2009, 07:02:20 PM »
Although I completely support Semenya and feel bad over what she must be going through now (shame, humiliation, possibly being prevented from ever competing again), I can't imagine s/he didn't know s/he was intersexed.  S/he's never menstruated and sports orgs test their players annually for drugs and hormones (testosterone).  I would venture to say the South African sports committee is more at fault than Semenya.  Hopefully her current struggle helps to raise awareness about the intersexed (they were revered as sacred by many traditional cultures btw).

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,650
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2009, 09:49:40 AM »
Yup I agree with you GNYC09.  She knew. But so what. That's not the issue. 

If she feels like the fight, she should push the envelope. If not, that's her choice.  It would be interesting to push the envelope cause then we can throw in lots of questions - such as doping.  Remember the Eastern Bloc women swimmers?!  Artificially induced advantage. Unfair. So, is a natural but extremely rare advantage OK?

Yes Michael Phelps is a freak of nature. 

Yes, in fact, many great runners and athletes generally are genetically extremely symmetrical.

Look, you have to draw the line somewhere, even if it is arbitrary, if you want to keep sex separated sports. If I were a standard issue "woman" runner, I would feel gypped losing to Semenya.  I wouldn't hold it against her personally, it just would seem unfair.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline GNYC09

  • Member
  • Posts: 702
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2009, 11:21:54 AM »
I'm all for pushing the envelope but maybe she should be competing in the men's races instead of the women's?  Who's to say?

Offline David_CA

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,246
  • Joined: March 2006
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2009, 12:19:23 PM »
Since she has internal testicles and testosterone, wouldn't it have shown up if she'd been tested for hormones in the past (as indicated in this thread)?  Perhaps they only test for synthetic testosterone.
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline megasept

  • Member
  • Posts: 478
  • Steven here...
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2009, 03:57:56 PM »
Since she has internal testicles and testosterone, wouldn't it have shown up if she'd been tested for hormones in the past (as indicated in this thread)?  Perhaps they only test for synthetic testosterone.

Since all males and females have both testosterone and estrogen, what exactly would "show up" other than a slightly different ratio?
 
8) megasept

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,650
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2009, 03:11:09 PM »
I have never seen a woman runner with her body before and i competed in uni and see the Athletissima in Lausanne every year. 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline next2u

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,762
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2009, 08:54:57 PM »
google female abs and go to images. you'll see some buff weight lifting ladies. i have seen abs and arms on a chic like that before.
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline the trebmeister

  • Member
  • Posts: 98
  • Fame is fleeting ... obscurity is forever.
    • daddy, you bastard
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2009, 10:35:51 PM »
that humans still hold contests to decide anything other than ephemera amazes me.  it's ALL ephemera regardless but who cares?  she can have 3 undescended testicles and 15 udders for all i care.  why hound the poor being because she doesn't fit the "average?"  i don't care if she's racing with men, women, dogs, or horses -- all that matters is who wins, isn't it?  that's the bottom line even by darwinian standards.

i know in the late 20th century those dirty commies supposedly changed plumbing and altered hormonal outputs to achieve olympic advantages but, again, who gives a shit?  it's all simply games.  if you don't win one try harder next time. 
Your friends may say that I’m a stranger
My face they’ll never see no more
There is but one promise that’s given
I’ll sail on God’s golden shore

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,650
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2009, 09:07:27 AM »
google female abs and go to images. you'll see some buff weight lifting ladies. i have seen abs and arms on a chic like that before.
I have never seen a RUNNER.  yeah weightlifters, but we sort of assume they are on drugs, though that may not always be the case.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline megasept

  • Member
  • Posts: 478
  • Steven here...
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2009, 06:39:29 PM »
I have never seen a RUNNER.  yeah weightlifters, but we sort of assume they are on drugs, though that may not always be the case.

World-class sprinters are WEIGHT LIFTERS (resistance training) because running alone will not build massive shoulders, arms, and lats. The bodies changed when the notion that "being top-heavy" was an impediment to quick times. Drugs aren't required, but lots of hard work is.

 8)  -megasept (who only runs a block at a time).



Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,650
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2009, 06:50:53 AM »
Sorry, no bodies like hers at Athletissima and they are world class.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Angel-Ronnie

  • Member
  • Posts: 434
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2009, 01:56:46 AM »
If it had to be a man... with internal ovaries and vagina but he has a dick on the outside would the controversy be the same??? will society treat him like they do Caster? the 18 year old has withdrawn from society here in South Africa... all over every country she is being slandered but if it had to be a man who is more woman then it wouldn't have made the headlines... society will say it is a woman caught in a mans body..... just a thought though.....
Bide the Wiccan law ye must,
In perfect love and perfect trust
Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill
An' ye harm none, do what ye will.

What ye send forth comes back to thee,
so ever mind the Law of three,
follow this with mind and heart,
Merry ye meet, and merry ye part.

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,650
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2009, 02:47:20 AM »
I dont think anyone is slandering her in this column, at least.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline GNYC09

  • Member
  • Posts: 702
Re: Caster Semenya - Man or Woman?
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2009, 07:49:50 PM »
Hey, I found a web page called "Show Caster you care," which a South African paper has created.  Click here to visit the site if interested.

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.