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Author Topic: Go get her Barney... !  (Read 12546 times)

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Offline RapidRod

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  • Posts: 15,288
Re: Go get her Barney... !
« Reply #50 on: August 24, 2009, 02:51:18 PM »
Quote
I keep waiting for all Americans, including you to be part of the solution, not a part of the problem.
Americans don't want a bill that is rushed through that has not been read by the legislators that don't even know what is in the 1000+ page House bill. I guess that it is to much to ask for them to read the bill? Joe how many changes has been made to the bill this month alone? Obama has back tracked on his statements on the public option. At first he wouldn't sigh a bill without it and now he's stating it's insignificant. Which is it?

Offline physicsguy

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  • Posts: 59
Re: Go get her Barney... !
« Reply #51 on: August 24, 2009, 03:30:20 PM »
Quote
Maybe you could explain how it went from Universal Healthcare with a public option policy to "affordable" heathcare.
A monumentally stupid attempt at dealing with a group of people who want things to remain exactly the same yet lie and say they want reform?

Offline Joe K

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Re: Go get her Barney... !
« Reply #52 on: August 24, 2009, 03:46:06 PM »
I'm not going to exchange sound bites and yes Congress should read its own bill, but at some point, we have to do something and all the opposition supports is we do nothing. No piece of legislation has ever been written that does not need revisions, so why can't we support a framework approach or any approach?

It's getting to be like trying to teach a pig to fly, it won't work and it annoys the pig.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 04:00:01 PM by killfoile »

Offline bocker3

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  • Posts: 3,422
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: Go get her Barney... !
« Reply #53 on: August 24, 2009, 04:28:23 PM »
Does your incremental change include the fifty million of us that have no health insurance? You're naive to think that even incremental change is possible when one side is intractable in it's efforts to stonewall, which in effect will defeat any meaningful healthcare policy. Obama campaigned on healthcare, and the American people overwhelmingly elected Democrats to get healthcare done this year.

It's not MY incremental change (get snarky with others, but I, for one, don't appreciate your penchant for taking meaning out of context sweetheart) -- I'm being a realist here.  While I would love to see us leap from where we are to a Single Payer system, it simply isn't going to happen.  If we stand pat to an all or nothing position -- then we guarantee us getting NOTHING.
The incremental change should be meaningful and help to insure those without, but any progress will still be progress.
And I don't think that people elected Democrats (or Obama) simply on healthcare -- I think it was to remove us all from the horror of the previous 8 years.  Obama would have won even if he had never mentioned healthcare.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
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Current Labs
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Offline Assurbanipal

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  • Taking a forums break, still see PM's
Re: Go get her Barney... !
« Reply #54 on: August 24, 2009, 04:54:13 PM »
Americans don't want a bill that is rushed through that has not been read by the legislators that don't even know what is in the 1000+ page House bill. I guess that it is to much to ask for them to read the bill? Joe how many changes has been made to the bill this month alone? Obama has back tracked on his statements on the public option. At first he wouldn't sigh a bill without it and now he's stating it's insignificant. Which is it?



Rapidrod

I don't know whether you are genuinely uninformed or actively

spreading misinformation, but you have repeatedly

 given the impression that the information on the Bill

is not available or that it is too big to read.

Yes, the Bill is 1,017 pages.

But it is printed on one side of the page,

doublespaced

in approximately this size font.

And it is freely available on the web at www.thomas.gov

in a version where you can easily link to each section.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3200:

There is also a one page summary.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:HR03200:@@@D&summ2=m&

And it was introduced over a month ago.

Most Congressmen have a full time staffer working on the

 issue. If yours is not capable of forming a

reasoned opinion by now, get a new one.

But spare us the argument that it is not available
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Online Miss Philicia

  • Member
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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Go get her Barney... !
« Reply #55 on: August 24, 2009, 05:01:18 PM »
lollerz
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Go get her Barney... !
« Reply #56 on: August 24, 2009, 05:34:24 PM »
So they had their chance and now it is time for Democrats to simply steamroll right over them and pass legislation, that has a public option and the teeth to start taming health care costs. Anybody who would argue against affordable health care for ALL AMERICANS is anything but, a real American.

Here Here all for the steamroll! Enough is enough.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,975
Re: Go get her Barney... !
« Reply #57 on: August 24, 2009, 05:39:54 PM »
It's not MY incremental change (get snarky with others, but I, for one, don't appreciate your penchant for taking meaning out of context sweetheart) -- I'm being a realist here.  While I would love to see us leap from where we are to a Single Payer system, it simply isn't going to happen.  If we stand pat to an all or nothing position -- then we guarantee us getting NOTHING.
The incremental change should be meaningful and help to insure those without, but any progress will still be progress.
And I don't think that people elected Democrats (or Obama) simply on healthcare -- I think it was to remove us all from the horror of the previous 8 years.  Obama would have won even if he had never mentioned healthcare.

Mike


Oh poodle, piss on someone else's leg and tell them it's raining, because I could give a rat's patootie. I generally avoid your copy and paste postings like the plague. Sometimes it just can't be helped and I'm forced to snark your tired ass. Anywho, you must write something in context first before it can be taken out of context girlfriend. You're just another mushy, milquetoast, Lieberman-lite democrat defending the status quo. That ain't progress lulabell.

Offline Joe K

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  • Member
  • Posts: 3,810
  • 31 Years Poz
Re: Go get her Barney... !
« Reply #58 on: August 24, 2009, 05:45:31 PM »
I guess this can only happen in America. The Democrats, who have campaigned on health care reform, for decades, now have the chance to actually do something and the votes, so what are they waiting for? If this reform fails, it has little to do with Obama and everything to do with the Democrats and their inability to govern. Exactly why do they think they were voted into office? If they don't grow a pair and pass some meaningful legislation, then it might be time to scrap the two party system and try something else.

edited to add:

Mike, please stop getting stuck on words that have little meaning and instead concentrate on the ultimate goal. Whether you want to call it universal or affordable, it's all the same thing. Nobody has ever proposed that we change our system to a single payer, so why mention it. What we have is a uniquely American health care system, with too many vested interests in thwarting any meaningful change. If opponents offered concrete suggestions, rather than just saying no, we might actually develop a good plan. But when one side bargains in bad faith, what other option do you have?

Do you allow them to once again postpone reform, while letting the country go bankrupt from escalating medical costs? If that is what you want, then say so, because without significant reform, that is exactly what is going to happen. Offering the public option would bring the first real competition into a health care market than in over 40 states, is generally controlled by only two insurance companies. Now what kind of competition is that? The free markets of Reaganomics don't work for everything, especially health care and how long will it take until we learn?

If we don't do something now, when will we?
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 05:59:27 PM by killfoile »

Offline Moffie65

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,755
  • Living POZ since 1983
Re: Go get her Barney... !
« Reply #59 on: August 24, 2009, 06:15:14 PM »
Canada is looking increasingly like a good alternative to the United States of America modern madness that has followed 8 years of utter Theocracy.  Maybe Alberta.

Nothing good will come of this "Congressional Fight" that has literally nothing to do with us the citizens, and everything to do with padding the coffers of the politicians with medical money, to make an attempt next year to destroy the Democrat majority!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In the end, it is all bullshit, and we the HIV/AIDS population of the United States, have no hope whatsoever of living to see a real and caring health care system that WANTS to keep us alive.  If the people screaming at these out of control meetings were to be polled, we would come out on the bottom margin, somewhere on the edge of the paper.  They simply don't care about the poor, the sick, or those who have no money to pay for insurance.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline bocker3

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,422
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: Go get her Barney... !
« Reply #60 on: August 24, 2009, 06:47:13 PM »
Well, I'm going to remove myself from this one because, unfortunately, this thread (and others like it) are an example of why so little progress gets made.  Everyone is so wedded to his or her own position that they can not even imagine that the other side (or, god forbid, someone in the middle) has any point that could be valid.  And even worse...  are those that rather than make any valid points, simply stoop to name calling (hmmm, not unlike the woman who was the original subject of this thread).
So, while I share the same end point goal as most of you (Joe -- believe me, I'm not getting lost in semantics, I simply want to see SOME real progress happen, I'm tired of the status quo), I just see a different path that should be taken given the real world that we live in today.

With that --

Ciao,
Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline Joe K

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  • 31 Years Poz
Re: Go get her Barney... !
« Reply #61 on: August 24, 2009, 07:28:33 PM »
Nobody said that government was pretty and the only argument I see here are those who are for reform, as opposed to those who are against it, without providing specifics or alternatives. I've heard a lot of good ideas from moderate Republicans, but that never gets mentioned. Instead you have death panels and pulling the plug on grandma. Yes it's a very hot topic, but it's a discussion that has been going on for over 50 years and still we have done nothing. Rather than walking away, this is the time when everyone should be bringing their ideas to the table. Unfortunately, our Congress seems unable to do this and there is more than enough blame to go around. However, placing blame won't get us anywhere, nor will shutting down debate, because all that will happen is nothing.

I am advocating for changes on how we deliver and pay for health care and if I knew the answers I'd share them, but at least I'm willing to listen to others, rather than dismissing them outright, because they have a different opinion. It frustrates me when people can only denigrate a system, even more so, when they don't participate it enacting some type of change.

Online Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,238
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Go get her Barney... !
« Reply #62 on: August 24, 2009, 08:35:49 PM »
LA Times

Lashed by liberals and threatened with more government regulation, the insurance industry nevertheless rallied its lobbying and grass-roots resources so successfully in the early stages of the healthcare overhaul deliberations that it is poised to reap a financial windfall.

The half-dozen leading overhaul proposals circulating in Congress would require all citizens to have health insurance, which would guarantee insurers tens of millions of new customers -- many of whom would get government subsidies to help pay the companies' premiums.

"It's a bonanza," said Robert Laszewski, a health insurance executive for 20 years who now tracks reform legislation as president of the consulting firm Health Policy and Strategy Associates Inc.

Some insurance company leaders continue to profess concern about the unpredictable course of President Obama's massive healthcare initiative, and they vigorously oppose elements of his agenda. But Laszewski said the industry's reaction to early negotiations boiled down to a single word: "Hallelujah!"
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline physicsguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 59
Re: Go get her Barney... !
« Reply #63 on: August 25, 2009, 01:53:51 AM »
Quote
But Laszewski said the industry's reaction to early negotiations boiled down to a single word: "Hallelujah!"
Of course that's their reaction, because it looks like the Democrats are weak enough that this will turn into yet another insurance industry giveaway.

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: Go get her Barney... !
« Reply #64 on: August 25, 2009, 08:53:41 AM »


Rapidrod

I don't know whether you are genuinely uninformed or actively

spreading misinformation, but you have repeatedly

 given the impression that the information on the Bill

is not available or that it is too big to read.

Yes, the Bill is 1,017 pages.

But it is printed on one side of the page,

doublespaced

in approximately this size font.

And it is freely available on the web at www.thomas.gov

in a version where you can easily link to each section.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3200:

There is also a one page summary.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:HR03200:@@@D&summ2=m&

And it was introduced over a month ago.

Most Congressmen have a full time staffer working on the

 issue. If yours is not capable of forming a

reasoned opinion by now, get a new one.

But spare us the argument that it is not available

ROFL you just keep believing that.

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,975
Re: Go get her Barney... !
« Reply #65 on: August 25, 2009, 10:24:58 AM »
Just for shits and giggles I called the office of my congressman, Steve Cohen and asked if he had read H.R. 3200. His chief of staff assured me that he had. I decided to see if the rest of the representatives from the great state of Tennessee had done the same. Took me less than one hour. Out of nine representatives only one would not confirm if they had read H.R. 3200 and that was Marsha Blackburn. All the rest said that they have and actually five asked if I had any particular questions about the bill they could try and answer for me.

Believe it or not it's very easy to contact your representative. They'll answer your email in a sec.

So out of nine representatives contacted, eight confirmed they read H.R 3200

Marsha Blackburn
Steve Cohen
Jim Cooper
Lincoln Davis
John Duncan
Bart Gordon
Paul Roe
John Tanner
Zach Wamp

Offline GSOgymrat

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,040
  • HIV+ since 1993. INTJ
Re: Go get her Barney... !
« Reply #66 on: August 25, 2009, 10:34:45 AM »
Good to know that your representatives have read it and that they are so accessible.

Online Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Go get her Barney... !
« Reply #67 on: August 25, 2009, 11:13:05 AM »
Out of nine representatives only one would not confirm if they had read H.R. 3200 and that was Marsha Blackburn.

considering that Marsha is one step of crazy away from Michelle Bachman this doesn't surprise me
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

 


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