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Author Topic: Universal healthcare in US  (Read 16316 times)

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Offline pinkadam

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Universal healthcare in US
« on: August 15, 2009, 12:39:44 PM »
Hello Friends

I would like your opinion on Obama's Universal health care. How does it impact people like us(HIV).I see all these town hall debates where people are furious about this health care bill.
Does this bill impact particular race ?  I see protestors to be predominantly white.

I am not trying to offend any one. This is just for opinion. Please refrain from posting arrogant comments

Thx
Pink

Offline Cliff

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2009, 12:52:31 PM »
I'm a bit out of the loop and wouldn't mind some specifics on the bill.  But a plan that extends health coverage to people who currently don't have access to quality health care, would be a step in the right direction.  Starting to address the spirilaing health costs rather than continuing to ignore it, also seems to be a step in the right direction.

The health care debate does make (at times) headlines here (UK), especially when UK politicians say something about the NHS that Republicans then take and use for political purposes. 

Offline Giblarry

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2009, 01:05:59 PM »
Hello Friends

I would like your opinion on Obama's Universal health care. How does it impact people like us(HIV).I see all these town hall debates where people are furious about this health care bill.
Does this bill impact particular race ?  I see protestors to be predominantly white.

I am not trying to offend any one. This is just for opinion. Please refrain from posting arrogant comments

Thx
Pink

You pose very good questions, Pink.  

All the yelling and screaming is exactly what you and I are experiencing - confusion and fear.  I think there is a point to that, though I'd like to see everyone calm down and discuss this rationally.  In our slave heritage society, no minority dares speak like fat white people.  That could be life threatening.  

The problem, as I see it, is that the final bill doesn't exist.  Rather, it's several bills and each of them seem to owe their souls to special interests.  No one, not even the president, knows what the final bill will look like.

I believe, however, that this health care reform will initially hurt HIVers and elders.  My hope is that it will level out over time.  We'll see.  And, yes, there is racial disparity in our present health care system, which skews in favor of whites/hetero's and against minorities.  

Single payer, like they have in the UK, is the best answer, I think.  The hype that their system is dysfunctional is just that - hype.  I have many British friends.  They may bitch about NHS, but they love it and take umbrage if anyone else bitches about it.  In general, a NHS would be the 'fairest to the most' system, that would include us, elders and racial minorities.  Though it might add some taxation, it would still be less expensive than the current, insurance company dominated, system we now don't enjoy.  

Gib

Offline sharkdiver

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2009, 01:25:11 PM »
What you are seeing is a lot media hype.


Offline bocker3

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2009, 01:46:05 PM »
It's difficult to give opinions on a bill that doesn't exist in final form, so I won't.  Rather, I'll say that everyone needs to be realistic in their expectations.  If anyone thinks that we will stay where we are, they are mistaken -- but if anyone thinks that we are going to have a bill that gets coverage for every single American and/or a single payer system, they are mistaken. 
Ultimately, I think health care reform is going to be a long, incremental process.  I suspect that we should be able to see the following in this first pass:
- an end to pre-existing condition clauses
- some plan (don't ask me what -- I don't know yet) that will allow folks to purchase insurance who don't have the ability to do so thru an employer and can't afford an individual policy.

In my opinion, if this is all that gets passed in the first go around -- it's a giant step in the right direction.

Would I like us to get to the "end state" immediately -- sure, but it ain't gonna happen.  We all have to be realistic and look for middle ground -- the far right and far left agendas are simply unacceptable at this point in time (and maybe ever).

That is my 2 cents.

Mike
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Offline bear60

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2009, 01:50:16 PM »
Its time for universal health care...NOW
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Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2009, 01:59:19 PM »
There are conservative organizations such as FreedomWorks, with their own agenda, that are mobilizing the protesters at the Town Halls. They are basically rounding up people who hate Obama no matter what he does as well as others who they are feeding lies and misinformation to (such as saying that health care reform will include "death panels" where the government decides when you should die, etc.) These people are being organized, given "talking points" and then literally bussed in to the Town Hall meetings. These disruptions are keeping other individuals out who may want to participate with legitimate questions.  

These are not legitimate grassroots protests from individuals who have real questions, these are organized events from conservative anti-Obama groups that have their own political agenda, not in the best interest of the public at large.

Bottom line: the protests at the Town Hall events are not to be taken seriously nor should they reflect in any way, for or against, on any proposed health care reform.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2009, 02:33:02 PM by Inchlingblue »

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2009, 02:25:29 PM »


These are not legitimate grassroots protests from individuals who have real questions, these are organized events from conservative anti-Obama groups that have their own political agenda, not in the best interest of the public at large.

Bottom line: the protests at the Town Hall events are not to be taken seriously nor should they reflect in any way, for or against, on any proposed health care reform.

  I hate to say it, but in my opinion you are right. What we have right now is definitely not working and it kind of pisses me off when I see people yelling at each other on the news like a bunch of kids on the playground fighting over a swing.  There is only one way we will find out if it works and that would be to implement it.....  I have private health insurance and even with that my family and I are sinking in debt just over our regular checkups and doctor visits.  I don't know how much universal health care will help my situation but I am still open to anything that is a change from what we have now.
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Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2009, 02:31:33 PM »
At one of the Town Hall events a couple of weeks ago one of the "protesters" was injured and he has no health insurance! He was then seeking donations to help pay for his doctor & hospital bills. This from someone against health reform!

Also recently an editorial opposing health care reform said: People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the UK, where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless.

This makes no sense since Stephen Hawking IS in the UK and has received excellent life-saving health care FOR FREE in the UK.

Hawking had to put out a statement: I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the NHS. I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived.


LINK:

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/posted/archive/2009/08/12/stephen-hawking-defends-british-health-care-system-against-u-s-conservatives.aspx
« Last Edit: August 15, 2009, 04:08:48 PM by Inchlingblue »

Offline mecch

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2009, 03:05:44 PM »
Rachel Maddow says the conservative anger you see in the media about health care is a combination of ignorance, anger, stupidity - it is displaced fear and anger from people frustrated about a lot of things.
You are correct that it is a sea of white faces on either side of the issue.
I do think that perhaps there is racism involved in those being against universal care. They keep bringing up the question about covering immigrants, and also children of illegal aliens, etc. etc. 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline GNYC09

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2009, 03:41:44 PM »
I am pro-universal healthcare in the U.S.  And I think that those against it--many of whom say they don't want to shoulder somebody else's bills--should be equally as passionate about fighting obesity, well-person checkups, exercising, etc in the U.S.  That would be a great way to reduce healthcare costs and improve quality of life in the U.S.

(p.s.= I have had private insurance most of my life but was hospitalized and uninsured at one point in between jobs.  I had to hire an attorney and he told me that hospitals charge the uninsured at least 3x more than they accept from the insured).
« Last Edit: August 15, 2009, 03:44:52 PM by GNYC09 »

Offline PeteNYNJ

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2009, 05:36:09 PM »
I will have to say, I am a fan of NHS.  I have had to use emergency services offered by NHS, once in London and once in Virgin Gorda (BVI).  In Virgin Gorda I tripped while carrying a bunch of bottles from the beach and one severed my forearm leaving a huge gash.  I was rushed to the clinic, received stitches and painkillers and sent on my way.  I didn't have to pay a dime.   

In London, I was assaulted and hit in the head with a beer bottle causing a gash over my eye requiring stitches.  I received stitches after a bit of a wait but my injury wasn't life threatening.  Again, no bill.

If this happened to someone visiting from outside the US while in the US, the bill would have been quite large.  You would also have to wait.  I have waited hours in American ERs and I have excellent insurance. 

It is time for some kind of reform where every citizen could receive affordable insurance provided by the govt if they want/need it.  I don't think the conversation ever mentions taking away the option for those who want to keep private insurance from doing so. 

Just my two cents

Pete

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2009, 06:08:08 PM »
  I had to hire an attorney and he told me that hospitals charge the uninsured at least 3x more than they accept from the insured).

Oh yeah...I know someone who was hospitalized for three days and the bill was $15,000. but the hospital charged his insurance $3,000. If he had not had insurance he would have been billed $15k not $3k. Huge difference.

I think it's because the insurance companies are big clients of the hospitals and they can negotiate prices but it should not be legal.

That's one thing that's not brought up enough. When you hear about uninsured people going bankrupt owing, say, $100k to a hospital; if they had insurance the insurance would probably be billed one-third, if that.

Offline bocker3

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2009, 06:58:53 PM »
I think it's because the insurance companies are big clients of the hospitals and they can negotiate prices but it should not be legal.

Then I guess the gov't shouldn't set reimbursement rates either, like it does for Medicare?

While I agree that charging the uninsured more than the insured seems crazy -- making negotiating illegal isn't likely to lower costs across the board, now is it??  My guess is that the insurance companies can demand lower prices because they are able to "guarantee" a large number of patients to the hospital -- or drug store, etc.
Again, I'm not defending the practice, only pointing out that making it illegal will likely have consequences that you don't really want either.

Mike
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Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2009, 08:08:16 PM »
There is no final bill yet, but there are bills in the House and general agreement on a number of principles that will help people with HIV.

These include:
- insurers would have to cover all people who applied whether or not they had an existing  health problem.  And they would have to charge people of similar ages similar rates.  This would be very helpful to people with HIV that currently have coverage with an employer and feel "locked into" their current job.  It would also give better options to people with HIV who lose a job

- coverage would be expanded to try to reach all citizens, with subsidies for lower income people.  It is likely this will be done through an expansion of Medicaid, although there will be some debate over how much of the price tag for the subsidies gets picked up by the States vs. the federal government (the federal government and the States share the cost of Medicaid).  This will be particularly valuable  to lower income gay men, since Medicaid does not currently require that low income single adults be covered by each State.  (And under DOMA, same sex marriages are not recognized)

But there are risks for us as well, particularly in figuring out how programs like Ryan White and ADAP will fit into the new system.  We saw this before when prescription drugs were added to Medicare and it screwed up ADAP access for some people.  We need our activist organizations such as NAPWA to monitor and model how existing programs will fit into the new whole to avoid problems like the Medicare Part D/ADAP mess as the bills take shape. 

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Offline mecch

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2009, 08:18:43 PM »
Basically, who is going to tell the doctors, insurance companies, drug companies, medical industry, they will from now on make less money?  Everyone thinks it is so f*cking complex and it isn't.
Anyway, I think ANY attention to the problem is good, and even if there is a sucky "reform", it will be better than nothing. Which is what many Americans get now.  And if they trash the pre-existing condition bullcrap, and the process where they research your history when you get really sick, and then cancel your policy. 

Basically, nobody wants to tell the richest Americans that enough is enough. Banking. Medical. Whatever.

Maybe America is too exceptional, and can never reform and be a proper 1st world country giving ALL its citizens the full benefits of being so rich, per capita.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline pinkadam

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2009, 10:58:44 PM »
Healthcare system in this country is full of flaws.

I never understand why hospitals, Doctors and Pharma companies charge so much money from the people with no insurance. Why not everybody pays the same ???? Why are they making it a business

Every time my insurance company sends me EOB (Explanation of benefits) after my Drs. visit i always be surprised. Total bill will be around 1000 USD but they only paid 100USD to the doctor. So basically insurance company is saying they saved me 900USD.
Same goes with prescription medication. When i try to buy it directly from pharmacy the price will be in the sky. I am sure insurance company is not paying the same what we will be charged in the retail market.

System is so messed up and they are always looking for suckers.I heard several stories how people became poor just because of hospital bills.

I hate to blame Health insurance companies as they are not real culprits. I feel the culprits are Hospitals and Pharma companies.

Sorry for my rants !!!!!




Offline RapidRod

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2009, 11:36:34 AM »
Basically, who is going to tell the doctors, insurance companies, drug companies, medical industry, they will from now on make less money?  Everyone thinks it is so f*cking complex and it isn't.
Anyway, I think ANY attention to the problem is good, and even if there is a sucky "reform", it will be better than nothing. Which is what many Americans get now.  And if they trash the pre-existing condition bullcrap, and the process where they research your history when you get really sick, and then cancel your policy. 

Basically, nobody wants to tell the richest Americans that enough is enough. Banking. Medical. Whatever.

Maybe America is too exceptional, and can never reform and be a proper 1st world country giving ALL its citizens the full benefits of being so rich, per capita.
It's not conplex? You read it. http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.txt.pdf

Offline randym431

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2009, 12:10:02 PM »
This answer is very simple.

First of all...
 Just the elimination of "pre existing condition denial",
as is the practice now with company/private insurance, would be a huge
advancement. As you can guess, insurance companies love healthy people and hate sick people.
They love their premiums coming in, but rather keep those payouts limited to
CEO's and stock holders. And in building their fancy high rise glass and gold buildings.

Second…
All those white people at the rally’s get all their news from Fox News, the Rush Limbaugh's and the Sarah Palin's. That’s all they do, tune the TV and radio to these right wing nut job shows and take it in as their bible. Ronald Reagan made them fear government. Fox news made them fear Obama. And then toss in the mix total off the wall crap from Rush and Sarah, and you have the formula for outraged white folks, ...once again... ranting and voting against their own best interest.
It is truly the sad part of America.

And too, with the republicans loss of power in the last elections, republicans
have turned this from a “just” debate on healthcare reform, to simply trying
to take down the Obama administration.
Republicans feel, and believe, that if they can kill reform, they can gain power
back. That is the whole ballgame, for them.
They care not about you or healthcare. Why should they? The congress already
Has their government healthcare plans. And Rush Limbaugh signed his last radio contract
For 20 million salary. Rush owns a home on the Florida coast. Rush will never need
Affordable healthcare.

This is not about you. It is all about scoring points, and killing reform to gain
Power. And the press, naturally, is not helping bringing people the truths.
All CNN and the networks are, are extensions of tabloid news.
And within all this insanity, the citizens lose. The status quo continues.
And insurance companies, like CIGNA, use their existing death panels
To denial healthcare to the sick, and protect their profits.

What I don’t get is why a lot of these opponents and companies are
Not tossed in jail as traitors to the US government. Because that is just what they are.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2009, 01:19:46 PM »
Excuse me. How can you blame it on anyone when you have both sides of the isle going against the bill. You have just as many dems as you do reps against it.

Offline mecch

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2009, 03:27:30 PM »
RapidRod,
The bill may be complex, but the intent is not.  Obama published a pretty simple objective today in the NYT.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/opinion/16obama.html?_r=1&ref=global-home

Notice it is no longer Health Care Reform but Health Insurance Reform.

He's pragmatic, that's for sure!  Hope we all get something.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2009, 04:36:11 PM »
RapidRod,
The bill may be complex, but the intent is not.  Obama published a pretty simple objective today in the NYT.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/16/opinion/16obama.html?_r=1&ref=global-home

Notice it is no longer Health Care Reform but Health Insurance Reform.

He's pragmatic, that's for sure!  Hope we all get something.
Notice he had to try to change it because he's lost his backing. He's not changing a thing. He does not have the executive powers to change anything. It's both Houses of Congress that write the bills.

Offline newt

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2009, 05:31:17 PM »
I find this an interesting debate

Setting aside the "socialist/commie" commentaries that have been flying around, it's a question of economics. Healthcare is expensive and a command economy, much like having a decent army etc. I watch with interest to see if it's winnable.

In the end its a moral and economic question.

Do you want ill, dying people on the streets of your cities? Do you want to defend the nation against slow, painful deaths of its citizens? Is that American? What does the "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" bit in the Constition mean?

The economics is compelling really. The UK spends half what the US does per person but has better health outcomes. Okay my tax bill is HUGE but my care is free if I need it. As is my defence.

Okay, the "hotel services" and privacy in the UK health system are crap, but we don't have people wandering around, I mean people who worked n paid out, with treatable conditions for the most part.

I wonder how much State authorities pay out for emergency care when paying for routine chronic care would be cheaper?

Plus the US needs to get the pharma and healthcare providers priucing under control. We have and they still turn a decent profit.

I reckon it's an impossible national reform tho (as a distant observer), and therefore slides the second term...I hope not. Not so much loss of the second term, but no universal access to healthcare. It may be unwinnable at a national level. But state by state, perhaps it is. 

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline pinkadam

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2009, 06:30:21 PM »
Health care is necessary for every one and it is every citizens duty to pay for it. Why not Govt tax every individual like the way they tax us for sales tax , income tax. There should be healthcare tax and be done with it.


Offline RapidRod

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2009, 07:12:22 PM »
Health care is necessary for every one and it is every citizens duty to pay for it. Why not Govt tax every individual like the way they tax us for sales tax , income tax. There should be healthcare tax and be done with it.


Social Security is broke. Medicare is broke and Medicaid is broke. Let's fix what is broke first.

Offline bobino

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2009, 09:08:30 PM »
Social Security is broke. Medicare is broke and Medicaid is broke. Let's fix what is broke first.

Actually, Social Security is not broke.  According to current projections, funds available to pay anticipated benefits will not be sufficient to meet 100% of promised benefits in the year 2042.  That does not mean that if you are a Social Security beneficiary in 2042 that you won't get some benefits.  It means that, unless action is taken to correct the problem before then, you won't get all of your promised benefits.  Since Social Security is funded through a payroll tax, it cannot technically go broke so long as that tax is collected. 

Obviously, to ensure that there is no shortfall, some source of additional revenue will have to be found or benefits will have to be curtailed.  Much could be done simply by repealing Bush's tax cuts and returning tax rates to where they were before 1986.  The country can fund Social Security and Medicare.  It's just a question of political will.  Countries that are far less wealthy than ours manage to have both universal health care and financial assistance for the elderly so that they don't live in poverty.  We can certainly do the same.
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Offline bufguy

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2009, 10:21:34 PM »
First of all the federal government has been raiding the SSI contributions for federal spending.

Second I think it is unconsionable that the US is the ONLY developed country without guaranteed health insurance. It should be a right not a priveledge.

Dick Armey, former house majority leader and a huge opponent of healrth care reform was on Meet the Press and stated that Medicare and Social Security should be optional. These are the lunatics leading the opposition. The average right wing, blue collar citizen would be destitute without SSI and Medicare......They are just plain stupid sheep being led to slaughter.
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Offline gregftl

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2009, 12:45:40 AM »
All those screamers at the town halls are just posers for the health care industry and the extreme right wing nut jobs. They showed on CNN a week ago the script these people were given to follow when they went to the town halls and how to disrupt them.

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2009, 12:47:17 AM »
You have just as many dems as you do reps against it.

LOL  What?

Can you be more specific? Maybe back this up with more information because as far as I know that statement is not correct.

There are some moderate Democrats not on board but not "just as many" as there are Republicans noton board.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 12:56:05 AM by Inchlingblue »

Offline Tempeboy

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2009, 02:25:02 AM »
As an outside observer I find this conversation interesting (with respect).

Are insurance companies in the US also legally able to own stakes in hospitals or pharmaceutical companies?  If so are they obliged to declare - and would co-ownership represent a conflict of interest?
Could this account for the discrepencies in fees and charges?
Roughly roundabout somewhere in the eighteenth or nineteenth century, Sodomite begat Homosexual out of moral, medical and legal models, bequeathing him Identity, who inbred with Nuclear Family and Industrialism to spawn Homophobia.

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Offline Tempeboy

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2009, 02:31:26 AM »
I find this an interesting debate

The economics is compelling really. The UK spends half what the US does per person but has better health outcomes. Okay my tax bill is HUGE but my care is free if I need it.

- matt


Good point Matt,

How much income tax does the average person pay in the UK?  In Australia it's about 30cents in the dollar - but all health care and meds are free (small copayment) - and so are many other things.  Health outcomes are pretty good here also - and a healthy population is a happier population that has more opportunities for work and education (also heavily subsidised).

We also have the option of going private - and people can choose to take out insurance - which is tax deductable.
Roughly roundabout somewhere in the eighteenth or nineteenth century, Sodomite begat Homosexual out of moral, medical and legal models, bequeathing him Identity, who inbred with Nuclear Family and Industrialism to spawn Homophobia.

Dean Kiley

Offline Cliff

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2009, 03:21:35 AM »
UK's lowest rate is 10%, middle rate is 20%, upper rate is 40%.  You pay national insurance on top of that, but I forget how much it is (maybe 7 or 8% or so).  The tax burden is higher than in the US (particularly since you don't as many deductions/exemptions), but it's not excessive by any means.  I think people exaggerate how low taxes are in the US and how high they are in the UK.

I have private health-care (employer pays for it), but I have never used it.  The NHS is great.  Whether or not health-care should be completely free at the point of service is up for debate.  But what shouldn't be is that everyone should have access to quality, affordable health-care (and those who don't have the means to pay for it should be subsidised).  

I can understand why some people (especially those with great employer-paid insurance schemes) are hesitant on health care reform.  What I don't understand is why anyone with government-paid health care is trying to kill universal health-care in the US.  It's as if you're saying that since you're sorted (at taxpayer's expense), you're perfectly willing to screw everyone else.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2009, 04:02:28 AM »
LOL  What?

Can you be more specific? Maybe back this up with more information because as far as I know that statement is not correct.

There are some moderate Democrats not on board but not "just as many" as there are Republicans noton board.
Had there been enough Dems to vote before the recess they would have voted a bill through that none of them have read. Just like the stimulus package. Remember the stimulous package that was to prevent the unemployment rate from going over 8%.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 04:07:13 AM by RapidRod »

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2009, 07:52:49 AM »
Excuse me. How can you blame it on anyone when you have both sides of the isle going against the bill. You have just as many dems as you do reps against it.

At this point, all that stands in the way of universal health care in America are the greed of the medical-industrial complex, the lies of the right-wing propaganda machine, and the gullibility of voters who believe those lies.

Offline LordBerners

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2009, 09:35:33 AM »
Social Security is broke. Medicare is broke and Medicaid is broke. Let's fix what is broke first.

Right-wing propaganda there, RR.  All those things are fine, but if by 'fix' you mean raise taxes to better fund them, then I wholeheartedly support it!

At this point, all that stands in the way of universal health care in America are the greed of the medical-industrial complex, the lies of the right-wing propaganda machine, and the gullibility of voters who believe those lies.

In other words, in surmountable odds, I'm afraid, Dachshund.  Don't hold your breath.  The medical mafia has had a firm control of this racket for generations, and I see no sign of it ending soon.
Please, just call me Berners.. or Baron.

Offline lforsyth

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2009, 09:45:57 AM »
I only hope that something happens.  My employer took away Insurance benefits for retired employees back in the late 90's before a merger with another company.  I just turned 60 and myself and others where I work are only staying around because we can't afford insurance at today's prices.  As an employee my copay is $10 and med's are $15 and $5 for generic.

It does seem like the medical and drug groups don't want to lose their power and the excess profit's they currently receive at the expense of the everyday joe who's paying the bill's.
Tested POZ in 1986, knew there was something wrong in 1985. 04/2010 CD4: 975 Viral Load undetectable. Prezista, Norvir, Truvada, Acyclovir, Plavix, Lisinopril, Metoprolol and a bedtime snack of Lipitor (YUM)

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2009, 10:02:49 AM »
Right-wing propaganda there, RR.  All those things are fine, but if by 'fix' you mean raise taxes to better fund them, then I wholeheartedly support it!

In other words, in surmountable odds, I'm afraid, Dachshund.  Don't hold your breath.  The medical mafia has had a firm control of this racket for generations, and I see no sign of it ending soon.
  It's will have to take a raise on everyone’s taxes to pay for the Healthcare Plan that has been purposed.

Offline LordBerners

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2009, 10:06:57 AM »
  It's will have to take a raise on everyone’s taxes to pay for the Healthcare Plan that has been purposed.

Sounds great to me (though that's unsurprising given my destitution).  But even for those of you who do have income to be taxed, surely no tax increase could be worse than trying to get health coverage 'privately' with hiv/aids?
Please, just call me Berners.. or Baron.

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2009, 10:55:27 AM »
Had there been enough Dems to vote before the recess they would have voted a bill through that none of them have read. Just like the stimulus package. Remember the stimulous package that was to prevent the unemployment rate from going over 8%.

Well that's not the same as saying that there are "just as many" Democrats against it!@ Far from it.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2009, 11:12:06 AM »
Well that's not the same as saying that there are "just as many" Democrats against it!@ Far from it.
Now it wouldn't have passed would it? Murtha has just stated he doesn't see it coming up before a vote until next year.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/08/14/murtha-differs-from-obama-on-health-care-timeline/
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 11:16:53 AM by RapidRod »

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2009, 07:10:38 PM »
  It's will have to take a raise on everyone’s taxes to pay for the Healthcare Plan that has been purposed.

Wrong again. The only proposed tax hike would be on those making $250,000 or more. They would also pay for it by cutting waste and fraud in Medicaid. Watch your back. :D

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2009, 08:14:33 PM »
Wrong again. The only proposed tax hike would be on those making $250,000 or more. They would also pay for it by cutting waste and fraud in Medicaid. Watch your back. :D
The only proposed tax hike.   :D Keep dreaming. Watch my back?  :D I would go on ADAP like YOU...

Offline Joe K

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2009, 09:10:52 PM »
Until you get enough Americans to believe that health care is a right for all citizens, this crap will just keep happening.  I'm sitting on the sidelines in Canada and what is going on is very apparent from here.  The Democrats have a lofty goal, but rather than explain what their plan is, they have gone in all different directions, cutting deals here, dropping conditions adverse to some special interest group, etc.  Now they act surprised that so many people are against the plan, when there is no plan.  There doesn't even seem to be consensus that health care costs need to be controlled.  The Democrats better start explaining with some detail that the average citizen can understand and support.

Of course you still have the Republicans, who are so pissed they lost the election and they don't care what Obama wants to do, because all they care about is making him fail.  And the thought of some black man telling all those old fart white men what to do, scares the crap right out of them.  What a pathetic excuse for a political party.  But once again, the quest for greed will most probably doom our country to another decade or so of the same old bullshit.

Both parties should be ashamed that they have failed the American public so miserably.

Offline Ann

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2009, 10:24:51 PM »

I'm sitting on the sidelines in Canada....


Joe, just be thankful you are. I gave it up long ago. Remember the Serenity Prayer. I do, otherwise, I'd go nuts.

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Offline Dachshund

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #44 on: August 18, 2009, 06:18:46 AM »
The only proposed tax hike.   :D Keep dreaming. Watch my back?  :D I would go on ADAP like YOU...

Maybe you missed it because it didn't scroll across the bottom of Fox TV, but 95% of working Americans received a tax cut provided by the stimulus.

It's amazing that when you chime in on healthcare and how it's going to raise our taxes, you never disclose the healthcare coverage you're lucky enough to have. Government run, tax payer supported, Medicaid. The purest form of socialism America has to offer. Single payer coverage that I believe every tax paying American has a right to, including you. You would pledge allegiance to Marx and Lenin if you thought it would save your healthcare coverage. That's the irony of it all. Grumpy grannies and you shouting "Obama is a socialist, keep your hands off my Medicaid." I would think you guys would be burning your Medicaid cards in protest.

I guess you don't bother to read the healthcare/insurance horror stories posted around here. Maybe you do and you just don't care? At least when you post your narrow right wing philosophy about healthcare, do it with candor.


Until you drop out of Medicaid and seek healthcare through the private sector, the best you can offer on the healthcare debate is an apology or silence.

Offline randym431

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #45 on: August 18, 2009, 08:58:54 AM »
First:
Quote
It's will have to take a raise on everyone’s taxes to pay for the Healthcare Plan that has been purposed

Yes... with a single payer plan, 100% government, you'd pay taxes instead of premiums like we do now for employer insurance. And there would be no "opting out" for young workers that feel they don't need to take part in company insurance... That is... Until they end up in the ER, or worse.
And just who do you think pays for that? YOU and ME. How is that for a kick in the billfold.
If everyone took part in a government plan, where the government owned/ran the hospitals and clinics, all paid for thru taxes, we would each of us, pay a lot less than we do now per person for employer insurance..
And I kinda think THAT would solve a lot of the Medicare issues.
Like the government ran VA facilities.
Just try to take away the VA benefits from a vet... and see what happens.
But single payer is not in any pending healthcare bills. I wonder why?

And second... Dick Armey and his founded group do not want to make SS and Medicare optional...
They want to kill and destroy them totally.

Remember... SS, Medicare and VA are all government ran programs. They work very well.
It was Bush in his drug bill, that took away Medicare's ability to lower prices on drugs.
That is just one reason Medicare has issues. Thanks GW.

One more thing. CIGNA, BLUE CROSS and others have spent billions to fight reform.
A lot of this went to Senator Grassley, and the others, to pay them to kill reform.
When this is all over, and if healthcare reform fails or they remove the government
option, then what do you think CIGNA will do?
They are ALL going to raise premiums thru the roof like you have never seen,
to recoup their expenses to kill reform. And drop a huge number of their currently insured.  The plans are already on the table. It will soon come to the point where
few employed working will be able to afford employer insurance.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2009, 07:56:27 AM by randym431 »

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #46 on: August 18, 2009, 09:19:52 AM »
Maybe you missed it because it didn't scroll across the bottom of Fox TV, but 95% of working Americans received a tax cut provided by the stimulus.

It's amazing that when you chime in on healthcare and how it's going to raise our taxes, you never disclose the healthcare coverage you're lucky enough to have. Government run, tax payer supported, Medicaid. The purest form of socialism America has to offer. Single payer coverage that I believe every tax paying American has a right to, including you. You would pledge allegiance to Marx and Lenin if you thought it would save your healthcare coverage. That's the irony of it all. Grumpy grannies and you shouting "Obama is a socialist, keep your hands off my Medicaid." I would think you guys would be burning your Medicaid cards in protest.

I guess you don't bother to read the healthcare/insurance horror stories posted around here. Maybe you do and you just don't care? At least when you post your narrow right wing philosophy about healthcare, do it with candor.


Until you drop out of Medicaid and seek healthcare through the private sector, the best you can offer on the healthcare debate is an apology or silence.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #47 on: August 18, 2009, 09:30:44 AM »
Maybe you missed it because it didn't scroll across the bottom of Fox TV, but 95% of working Americans received a tax cut provided by the stimulus.

It's amazing that when you chime in on healthcare and how it's going to raise our taxes, you never disclose the healthcare coverage you're lucky enough to have. Government run, tax payer supported, Medicaid. The purest form of socialism America has to offer. Single payer coverage that I believe every tax paying American has a right to, including you. You would pledge allegiance to Marx and Lenin if you thought it would save your healthcare coverage. That's the irony of it all. Grumpy grannies and you shouting "Obama is a socialist, keep your hands off my Medicaid." I would think you guys would be burning your Medicaid cards in protest.

I guess you don't bother to read the healthcare/insurance horror stories posted around here. Maybe you do and you just don't care? At least when you post your narrow right wing philosophy about healthcare, do it with candor.


Until you drop out of Medicaid and seek healthcare through the private sector, the best you can offer on the healthcare debate is an apology or silence.
Like normal you speak and don't have any idea what you are talking about let alone anyone else's life on this forum. And for your information, that stimulus check you received was not TAX free. You have to declare it on your gross income or will you? :D

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #48 on: August 18, 2009, 09:42:27 AM »
Like normal you speak and don't have any idea what you are talking about let alone anyone else's life on this forum. And for your information, that stimulus check you received was not TAX free. You have to declare it on your gross income or will you? :D

Simple question. While bashing universal healthcare for others, do you receive government controlled, tax payer supported Medicaid? You're on record saying that you do.

Check your pay stub Rod and you'll see a payroll tax decrease.

Offline Denver Toad

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Re: Universal healthcare in US
« Reply #49 on: August 18, 2009, 09:44:35 AM »
Health care may not be a right, but it's the right thing to do.

The argument that "I don't want to pay for someone elses health care" is not only laughable, but utterly ignorant. The tremendous cost burden of covering the uninsured, underinsured, and the economic impact of medically-based bankruptcies is already being cost-shifted to the people who have insurance and who pay taxes. From an economics standpoint, this is by far THE most expensive and inefficient health care that money can buy, and to continue this extremely poor investment is what the conservatives want.

No wonder we are spending more per capita on health care, and getting less for it, than any other country on earth with that kind of mentality.
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