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Author Topic: Questions - My MIND IS GOING CRAZY  (Read 9161 times)

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Offline Snoopy808

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Questions - My MIND IS GOING CRAZY
« on: August 07, 2009, 02:19:03 AM »
Questions for all experts lately.

I understand fingering isn't a risk if the skin is intact. I read on the CDC site that any "break in the skin" is a risk. Why is everyone saying no risk. Help elaborate on this issue. Knowing that no one has ever gotten it is not convincing - they say it's still a theorectical risk???????? It seems to make sense to me - a wound + infectious fluids/blood = risk? NO? Why not?

1) Are there biological reasons why fingering with a bleeding wound is not risk? If so, please advise?

2) Hypothetically, if accidentally punctured my finger with a paper clip and immediately fingered a girl - would that be a risk?

3) Does it matter how big the cut would need to be? Why?

Some questions I can't seem to find an answer to.

You help will be appreciated experts.

Offline Ann

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Re: Questions - My MIND IS GOING CRAZY
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2009, 07:03:59 AM »
Snoopy,

The CDC employs a CYA (Cover Your Ass) policy. They'll tell you just about anything is a theoretical risk. Getting hit by a meteorite when you walk outside your house is also a theoretical risk, but do you worry that it's going to happen? No.

We're not the CDC. We're real people who know hiv transmission inside and out - and we also deal with hiv every day of our lives. We don't give you CYA, we give you TRD (The Real Deal).

Hiv can only infect a very few, very specific cell types and these cell types are NOT found in the upper layers of skin that might be exposed with a superficial cut on your finger. What's a superficial cut? Did you need stitches? No? Then it's a superficial cut.

Also, cuts start to heal immediately (the human body is a wonderful machine) from the inside out. Unless you're fingering someone with a finger that has just that moment been cut to the BONE and requires stitches, then you're worrying over nothing. (and why on earth would you be putting a serious cut like that into someone else's body?)  My ex-partner (hiv negative) works in the building trade. He constantly had small cuts on his fingers. He's hiv negative to this day.

Jab your finger with a paperclip before fingering someone all you want and you won't become infected with hiv that way. If you want to become hiv positive, you're going to have to try harder than that. If you want hiv, the best way to go about it is to find an hiv positive male and have unprotected RECEPTIVE anal intercourse. Even then, you're not guaranteed infection, but it's a pretty safe bet.

If you came across a car accident and tried to help the deeply cut, heavily bleeding occupant, but earned yourself a deep cut while trying to get to them, and they were hiv positive and you got huge amounts of their blood into the DEEP cut you just that moment sustained, then, yes, you MIGHT have something to worry about.

I've given you the long version, out of the kindness of my heart. Now do me a favour and don't go on and on about this NO RISK fingering scenario. If you do, you will be quickly given a time out. Make sure you read the posting guidelines found in our Welcome Thread. And thank you for your cooperation.

Ann
« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 07:06:10 AM by Ann »
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Snoopy808

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Re: Questions - My MIND IS GOING CRAZY
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2009, 09:26:11 AM »
Ann,
Thank you for your kindness of answering and giving a detailed explanation. Just a couple of more points I'm wondering about.

1) If a FRESH finger wound does not have the cells that the virus needs, why don't our doctors tell us that?
(I fingered a girl who's status was unknown, didn't notice any cuts or pain or blood, but one night I began thinking about it, then I became worried about "what if" I did have cuts and didn't notice them, went to the doctor and got a duo test at 18 days which was negative, doctor advised no further tested needed, and told me a cut would need be deep enough to penetrate the bloodstream, but he didn't mention anything about the finger wound not having the necessary cells)

2) In the paper clip scenario I gave, if the wound came into contact with menstrual blood and not vaginal fluids or both, would your assessment change?

3) In the accident scenario you gave, why would it then be a concern? It's just hard to believe whether the cut was small or big, once there is a "mixing" of blood, a risk is there.

4) You recommend any further testing? Can I continue my intimate relationship with my wife?

Last concerns, Ann, please address.


Offline Ann

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Re: Questions - My MIND IS GOING CRAZY
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2009, 10:30:30 AM »
Snoopy,

1 - Who knows. Maybe the doctor didn't know, maybe he wanted to keep it simple. What he told you, however, was true. He probably only tested you for your own peace of mind and to rule out an hiv infection acquired BEFORE your fingering incident. He's also correct in saying you do not need further testing. You do NOT have hiv.

2 - No, the presence of menstrual blood - or any other type of blood - does not change my risk assessment.

3 - We've been through this. For there to be any risk, there would have to be exposure to the correct type of cells and the exposure would have to be fairly drastic. We're talking copious amounts of blood, not little drops from superficial cuts. We're talking major physical trauma.

Even in this sort of situation, transmission is only a possibility, not a guarantee. Hiv is a very fragile virus that needs very specific criteria to be met before it can be transmitted. It is primarily transmitted during unprotected intercourse, where the virus never leaves the confines of the two bodies. Transmission in other settings, such as in the hypothetical accident scenario, is rare in the extreme. It is also not transmitted from blood or other bodily secretions found on objects or surfaces in the environment.

4 - No, you certainly do not need further testing over a fingering incident. Yes, you can go have sex with your wife. You do NOT have hiv!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Snoopy808

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Re: Questions - My MIND IS GOING CRAZY
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2009, 12:58:33 PM »
Ann, once again thanks for you reply. My mind is really settling down.
I know you're not a therapist but please here me out.

1) MY STORY: I'm 26 and recently got married to a beautiful girl and we've have yet had sex unprotectedly, just weren't to become parents. Outside of that and before I met her, my sex life was a far cry from "active". I had protected vaginal/oral sex with a girl I do not know of her status (one night stand). But during that, condom remain intact until I pulled out and the condom fell off (I wasn't fully erect). The problem was it was dark and I couldn't tell. I try reinserting my penis in but barely tipped her opening and she told me to stop because my condom fell off. We stopped after that. I was also involved in multiple fingering events when I attended strip clubs. I never thought much of it until one day my buddy brought up HIV with me and said "you never know". After that, I freaked out. 9 months had already passed since the one night stand and I got tested (duo-antibody). The week of waiting for results was hell. Finally, the results came back and it was NEGATIVE. I was so happy and thought I could close a chapter in my life. However, the next day, I was pondering about my results and realized that 17 days prior to getting tested I was at a strip club with a friend and messed around with a dancer. I never deeped fingered her but I did rubbed the outside of her vagina, clitoris, or urethal opening - but the finger was never inside the vaginal cavity. Nonetheless, wetness was felt. Then I thought, I'm a painter and always have cuts on my hands and fingers. I also bite my nails and get cracked skin on fingers at times (sometimes to a point where I see blood in them and they hurt when I wash my hands). THAT'S WHEN I LOST IT. I went to see my doctor and he told me I was fine and didn't need additional testing and that cuts would need to penetrate the bloodstream. But I couldn't let go. I THINK THE KEY HERE IS: WHAT IF. I honestly don't recall any pain or blood or cuts that night on my hands. But the idea of WHAT IFs started kicking in. What if I had mircroscopic cuts that were bleeding? What if infectious fluids bled into the gaps I MIGHT have? Etc, etc. I talked to my brother and he said I was dumb and that I'm IMAGINING scenarios. And that I should use some coomon sense that even if I had a cut, it wouldn't penetrate the bloodstream and that cuts bleed out and in, etc. He suggested cuts were very different from injecting drugs into the bloodstream. But I didn't buy it and thats when I started all this online search. I have a good feeling that I did not have any cuts that night, and this is really just anxiety and a guilt trip. The thought of going back to the doctor after a few weeks for additional testing for this fingering incident and waiting another week for results is devasting to me and I don't want to do it. Nonetheless, my wife has been talking about having kids lately - and I want to too. Can I absolutely move on without any further doubt and without any further testing? I've never done drugs or had sex unprotectedly.
AND THANK YOU FOR LISTENING.

Two more points I need you help to address:

2) Are there other factors (environmental, biological) that make fingering (even with a fresh cut) not a risk? I hear about cuts bleeding out and not in. I read somewhere that even in fingering with a cut, virus is dead once isolated from the blood stream - but how is that when you have a cut and are physically in her? I also read fingering is considered outside the host? And that fingers carry oxygen? No idea what those mean. Any details on these factors would help.

3) Regarding FRESH cuts, how do you determine if its deep enough or not to penetrate the bloodstream. My brother suggested that even with a superficial cut where there is blood - it is just superficial blood vessels exposed and nothing close to the bloodstream. Any validity on that? I couldn't find an answer anywhere about that.

Boy...am I tired from typing.
Ann, one last time - please.
Thanks.
 

Offline Ann

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Re: Questions - My MIND IS GOING CRAZY
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2009, 02:22:21 PM »
Snoopy,

Look mate, you're taking a molehill and turning it into the entire range of the Himalayas.

Fingering is not a risk for hiv infection. Not one person has EVER been infected with hiv through fingering and you are NOT going to be the first. Fingering is one of the most common sexual activities and people do it with cuts on their fingers all the time. Yet NOBODY has EVER been infected this way. EVER.

You need to stop micro-analysing all this and just accept the fact that you haven't been at risk. If you cannot accept what we're telling you, go test again and collect your negative result. And/or get yourself into therapy so you can get to the bottom of your obsession with this despite repeated assurances from this website and your own doctor that you haven't been at risk.

Sexually speaking, the ONLY true risk is UNPROTECTED anal or vaginal intercourse. That's it!

If you read the Welcome Thread before posting like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:

Quote
Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

PLEASE CONSIDER YOURSELF WARNED!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Snoopy808

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Re: Questions - My MIND IS GOING CRAZY
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2009, 02:28:59 PM »
Ann,
Understood. I don't want to be a pest and keep posting. And I definitely don't want to get banned. This is a great website and very helpful.

But if you can, kindly elaborate on the last 2 questions I had. It would really put me to peace.

Nonetheless, Thanks again. You're the best.

Offline Snoopy808

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Re: Questions - My MIND IS GOING CRAZY
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2009, 03:19:48 PM »
Ann,
I'm really not trying to be a pain. Or overuse your kindness in any way, shape or form. And I understand that you're not obligated to reply and it is my priviledge to have your assessment. But if you can just answer the last two questions. No more follow ups from me. Please - Thanks.

- Waiting anxiously.

Offline Snoopy808

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Re: Questions - My MIND IS GOING CRAZY
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2009, 04:27:17 PM »
Ann,
Sorry, I know I really got to drop this but can you answer the last 2 questions for me. Or if someone is available - please.

And one more thing, since I didn't deep finger her (hence so cervix) and just rubbed/massaged her clitoris - would that even further a 0 risk event?

I know stupid question. I think anxiety is getting to me.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Questions - My MIND IS GOING CRAZY
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2009, 06:01:20 PM »
Re-read what Ann wrote to you.

Get it into your head: NO RISK. PERIOD.

You need to know you're on the verge of getting a 28 day Time Out. 
Andy Velez

Offline Snoopy808

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Re: Questions - My MIND IS GOING CRAZY
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2009, 08:43:58 PM »
Ann and Andy,
I got an email earlier saying my continuing questioning and pestering is an insult to you guys. By no means am I trying to that. It's probably the fact I was so scared for a few weeks and now that I've found you guys for help and received the no risk assessment - it's still kind of hard to "shake off".
Sorry. Deeply sorry.

The only remaining thing that is bugging me is with a superficial cut (not one that requires stiches), if exposed to infectious fluids - why couldn't the infectious fluids SWIM through the bloodstream? Just a little explanation please. Is it because superficial cuts (even though there is blood) does not lead to the bloodstream...
What's the difference between this and how drug users inject directly into their bloodstream?

I'm really sorry. I'm 26 and just don't know how this works.

Offline Ann

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Re: Questions - My MIND IS GOING CRAZY
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2009, 09:11:19 PM »
Snoopy,

Hiv doesn't SWIM. Get a grip already! I know you already have found the detailed explanation you're asking for when you were searching the forum earlier. You read at least one thread which contained a post by a member by the name of jkinalt and that post explained it all to you in excruciating detail. I know, because I was watching you.

Six minutes before you posted reply #10, you applied for a new account, presumably to try and get around your impending time out. I know you applied for a new account because guess what mate, I'm the gatekeeper. I'm the person who approves new accounts.  If you'd read the Welcome Thread like I asked you to do, you'd know that is an offence for which you can be permanently banned.

And that's just what I'm going to do. Not only are your needs far outside the scope of this forum, but you also have shown a blatant disregard of our rules.

I suggest you go get yourself a therapist before this hiv obsession of your completely takes over your life.

Just in case I haven't been clear enough, you are now permanently banned for attempting to create a new account, contrary to our very explicit forum rules.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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