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Author Topic: Propolis as a possible remedy to fight Aids?  (Read 8032 times)

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Offline Sayang

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Propolis as a possible remedy to fight Aids?
« on: August 03, 2009, 12:37:27 PM »
Hi all.  My close friend is recently diagnosed to carry HIV.  He does not need any special medication at the moment though his VL seems to be pretty high.  We are trying hard to adjust his living habits and hope the efforts could help contain the HIV virus and keep him strong for many years to come.

I recently read about the benefits of propolis for cancers and decided to do a search on propolis and HIV.  There seems to be many encouraging primitive studies on the propolis and HIV but there is no conclusive study to prove propolis' effectiveness.

I was wondering if anyone in the community tried propolis and feel its positive benefits?

Are there any food or supplements in your opinion deserve a closer look?  I believe in eating right to strengthen body.  And I really hope I could introduce interesting, nutritious and delicious food with medicinal benefits to him. 

Thank you to all in advance.

Offline GNYC09

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Re: Propolis as a possible remedy to fight Aids?
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2009, 06:57:08 PM »
Your friend is lucky to have somebody like you who is concerned about his/her health  :)  Do you happen to know how high is your friend's viral load?  Unfortunately, if your friend's viral load is 10,000+, the virus is likely damaging the immune system.  Source.  Do you know what is your friend's CD4 count?

I don't know about propolis but there is some research that shows that meditation slows the progression of HIV (probably by lowering stress).  Source.  You may also want to search on the boards on selenium, which is said to help lower hiv levels.  Good luck.

Offline Sayang

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Re: Propolis as a possible remedy to fight Aids?
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2009, 12:28:24 PM »
Thanks for the compliments..   :)  Honestly, I do not know how else I can help him, except to give him encouragement, hugs and help him to make adjustments to his lifestyle.

His VL is high at 270,000 but CD4 around 650.  Maybe that is why the doc didnt ask him to start medication?

I will do research on Selenium later.

How does one achieve VL undetectable?  Is medication the only way?

Offline GNYC09

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Re: Propolis as a possible remedy to fight Aids?
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2009, 05:52:52 PM »
hugs go a long way...

Unfortunately, I've only heard of people reaching "undetectable" through meds...

Offline madbrain

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Re: Propolis as a possible remedy to fight Aids?
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2009, 05:46:20 PM »
hugs go a long way...

Unfortunately, I've only heard of people reaching "undetectable" through meds...

There are of course people that are natural controllers. But they probably never have a very high VL in the first place to go down from, except perhaps during the early acute infection period.

Offline mecch

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Re: Propolis as a possible remedy to fight Aids?
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2009, 07:13:19 PM »
Your friend will not reach undetectable viral loads through any amount of good nutrition, holistic medicine, sprituality, etc.  Short of a miracle, that is.  Your friend can reach undetectable viral loads with HAART.
All the good food, love etc etc is still very important of course!
Here is a link that I find has lots of good information about HAART, nutritional supplements, holistic therapies etc etc.:  Its Canadian and really well done:

http://www.catie.ca/eng/Publications/PublicationsIndex.shtml

and

http://www.catie.ca/supple-e.nsf
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Sayang

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Re: Propolis as a possible remedy to fight Aids?
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2009, 08:37:36 AM »
Madbrain,

your VL seems very well-controlled even though not on HAART.  How did you manage that?

Mecch,

the Canadian website is very comprehensive and useful.  I will spend the next two days on it.  Thank you so much.

Offline sharkdiver

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Re: Propolis as a possible remedy to fight Aids?
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2009, 10:06:03 AM »
I think the best advice would be having him be monitored by his doctor, there is nothing magic going on. You might want to read up in the lessons provided by the website or even check out the Someone I Care about has HIV forum.

Offline madbrain

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Re: Propolis as a possible remedy to fight Aids?
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2009, 06:49:28 PM »
Sayang,

Madbrain,

your VL seems very well-controlled even though not on HAART.  How did you manage that?

I appear to be a natural HIV controller. Basically I have good genes. I don't think it's anything I did in particular to control the VL. I'm in several medical studies on HIV controllers about that.

I do take a lot of nutritional supplements, and they have helped me in some areas like fatigue, but I'm not sure if they have helped lower my VL, and anyway, I never had a problem with a high VL to begin with.

Offline Sayang

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Re: Propolis as a possible remedy to fight Aids?
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2009, 09:35:41 AM »
Dear all
I want to report a good piece of news.  My friend started on propolis for less than 2 months and in his recent test, his CD4 increased by almost 300!  I am not sure if there is anything wrong wif the results or is it only a fleet of happiness, but nonetheless, we are very encouraged by the good results and he would continue wif his regime of taking 10 drops of propolis in the day and night.  His next test willl check on both CD4 and VL.  I hope the results will be as encouraging, if not MORE encouraging. 

Offline sharkdiver

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Re: Propolis as a possible remedy to fight Aids?
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2009, 10:46:31 AM »
Sayang

the increase in CD4 probably has more to do with acute infection and the numbers leveling out, than some herbal remedy.

Offline confidentIwillbeOK

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Re: Propolis as a possible remedy to fight Aids?
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2009, 01:14:26 PM »
Found a link about propolis from the Journal of Ethnopharmacology:

www.entomology.umn.edu/Faculty/spivak/JEthnopharmacology.pdf

Conclusions:
In conclusion, the results of these in vitro studies suggest that propolis has potent antiviral activity against X4 and R5 HIV-1 variants in the major cell types that are infected by this virus in vivo. Our studies with CD4+ lymphocytes suggest that propolis from several geographic regions has similar activity and that propolis operates, at least in part, as a viral entry inhibitor. Also, our results suggest it is unlikely that propolis will antagonize the anti-HIV-1 activity of RTIs such as AZT or PIs such as indinavir. The antiretroviral compo- nent(s) of propolis, a natural product which contains over 180 constituents (Burdock, 1998), is unknown. However, flavonoids (Wang et al., 1998; Critchfield et al., 1996; Xu et al., 2000), moronic acid derivatives (Ito et al., 2001) and caffeic acid (Burke et al., 1995), all of which are found in propolis, have been demonstrated by several research groups to possess anti-HIV-1 activity. The widespread use of propolis as a herbal remedy for almost three millennia and the results of toxicology studies in rodents (Burdock, 1998) suggest that propolis is relatively safe. Nonetheless, the absence of reports on either efficacy or safety of propolis in the treatment of HIV-1 infection coupled with recent evidence of adverse interactions of other natural products on the bioavailability of PIs (Piscitelli et al., 2000, 2002) mandate that before propolis is considered for clinical use that safety and pharmacokinetic studies be carried out in HIV-1-infected patients receiving standard antiretroviral agents.

Offline Peacock

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Re: Propolis as a possible remedy to fight Aids?
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2009, 03:17:09 AM »
I tried all sorts of herbal concoctions and vitamins when I was diagnosed with Hiv, but despite all the efforts my viral load still rose and Cd4 dropped. The only saving grace was Nevirapine and Combivir generics -'chemical medication' to which I am eternally grateful.
I still use Vitamins and enjoy treating myself with herbs -but its with the realistic view that it may help keep me healthy-but it wont kill the Hiv.
Treating myself with herbs and stuff did wonders for my mental health and kept me optimistic and always hopeful that I could beat the virus with herbs, and keeping a positive state of mind is as important as taking the meds.
So, take the herbs and vitamins because even though they dont appear have a direct affect on the virus itself (well-not with me) They had a direct affect on my mental health and keeping a positive outlook is Important and a Great way to assist the fight against the Hiv.
By the way- when I had mouth sores- I placed drops of PROPOLIS liquid on an earbud and dabbed the sores. It worked wonders by numbing the sore and healed really quickly. Herbs and vits definatly do have a positive impact on my living conditions. ;)
Peacock,Steve
Diagnosed 07/01/2002
Started Haart- 25/11/04 Cd4: 205 VL: 76'500
                      19/12/08 Cd4: 623 VL: UD
      26/03/12 Cd4: 497 Cd4%: 30.10 VL: UD
Combivir and Nevirapine(200mg) x1 of each-Am & pm
Not changed Meds since starting on HAART
Green Tea,Multivit,Selenium ACE,Folic acid,Vit C,Aciclovir 200mg 5x per day for 3 days-(ONLY when I have Shingles!)
100 percent adherence-with the help of a wristwatch!

Offline Nestor

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  • What we love, we shall grow to resemble.
Re: Propolis as a possible remedy to fight Aids?
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2009, 08:31:53 PM »

Hi Madbrain,

I'm interested in this statement:

"I appear to be a natural HIV controller."

What exactly does this mean?  I have heard that the average person with HIV will have the virus for about ten years before progressing to AIDS.  I've had HIV for about five and a half years, and you've had it for about three years.  My CD4s have fluctuated between 825, I think, at the highest and 545 or so at the lowest.  My VL has tended to be low although not as much as yours.  Everything I've heard from my doctor suggests that this is normal.  What about your situation, after only three years, makes you appear to be a natural controller?  Is it the extremely low VL?
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline madbrain

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Re: Propolis as a possible remedy to fight Aids?
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2009, 01:42:01 AM »
Nestor,

Hi Madbrain,

I'm interested in this statement:

"I appear to be a natural HIV controller."

What exactly does this mean?  I have heard that the average person with HIV will have the virus for about ten years before progressing to AIDS.  I've had HIV for about five and a half years, and you've had it for about three years.  My CD4s have fluctuated between 825, I think, at the highest and 545 or so at the lowest.  My VL has tended to be low although not as much as yours.  Everything I've heard from my doctor suggests that this is normal.  What about your situation, after only three years, makes you appear to be a natural controller?  Is it the extremely low VL?

Actually the average is less than 10 years before progressing to AIDS for most people. The median survival time from infection is 9 to 11 years according to wikipedia. But the progression is gradual, not instant.

It sounds like we both have CD4 in the same range. The reason I am able to qualify for the research studies as an HIV controller is actually due to the low viral load. Scientists have been classifying controllers depending on that criteria. "Elite controllers" are people with undetectable VL without meds. In the international HIV controller study, there is a second group called "viremic controllers", who have less than 2000 VL, which has been the case for most of my tests.

I think you can see that there is also no increasing trend in my VL. I reached my lowest recorded VL of 275 on 7/10/2009, 2.5 years after infection.

There is also no downward trend in my CD4 count either -I reached my highest absolute CD4 count two weeks ago of 810, 3 years into my infection . Most people have some decline in CD4 over time.

So even though it's only been 3 years, I think those are pretty good signs that I am controlling the infection and not progressing like most people.

Offline Nestor

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  • What we love, we shall grow to resemble.
Re: Propolis as a possible remedy to fight Aids?
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2009, 03:56:35 PM »
Madbrain,

Thank you for the clarification.  Could you tell me how you and many others here get your stats printed at the bottom of your messages?  I can't seem to find the place that deals with it!
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline confidentIwillbeOK

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Re: Propolis as a possible remedy to fight Aids?
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2009, 06:44:57 PM »
Nestor, go to "Profile" and then  "Forum profile information" and edit the "Signature" section.


Offline Nestor

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  • What we love, we shall grow to resemble.
Re: Propolis as a possible remedy to fight Aids?
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2009, 08:22:38 PM »
Thanks, it worked!

« Last Edit: October 30, 2009, 08:33:48 PM by Nestor »
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline buffaloboy

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Re: Propolis as a possible remedy to fight Aids?
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2009, 08:23:32 PM »
I don't know if propolis is any good for HIV infection itself, but it definitely helped me to combat a staph infection where I shave. I took several courses of antibiotics which cleared it up, but as soon I stopped it would come back. When I applied the propolis topically, the infection started to clear up within days and, ironically, only began to re-appear when I started on combination therapy.

I did try drinking propolis in warm water as directed, in an attempt to give myself a boost, but it tasted so foul that I had to stop. Still, I would be interested to hear of any success stories using propolis as I do believe that it is quite a potent substance.

 


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