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Author Topic: Is Obama homophobic?  (Read 10397 times)

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Offline a2z

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  • Posts: 198
Is Obama homophobic?
« on: July 25, 2009, 10:15:43 PM »
Probably some 2 + 2 = 5 math, but it might make for an interesting topic.

From what I understand Prop 8 passed in California because a large number of black voters turned out.  I don't particularly get this... are the black voters who turned out largely Baptist or another religion.  Are there other cultural issues I am not aware of?

And does Obama share some of these cultural issues, or at least, is he sensitive to a larger voting block who has these issues.

I generally don't like to stereotype a large group of people, but sometimes there is truth in stereotypes, even if its a nugget. Just wondering if this is why Obama is dragging his feet on some issues.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 10:27:55 PM by a2z »
Dates are blood draw dates:
9/4/14: CD4 948, 37.9%, VL 150
5/23/14: CD4 895 --.-% VL UD - Truvada/Isentress
09/21/09: CD4 898 27.0% VL 120 - back on track, same meds.High level enzymes, but less so
06/15/09: CD4 478 21.8% VL 1150 - high liver enzymes... looks like I may not be resistant
05/22/09: Fixed insurance, resumed medicine
04/17/09: Ran out of medicine, could not resolve insurance problems
04/01/09: CD4 773 28% VL 120 - high liver enzymes
12/01/08: CD4 514 23% VL 630
10/17/08 started Reyataz, Norvir and Truvada. -- possibly minor neuropathy, but otherwise okay.
9/10/08: CD4 345 17%, VL > 78K
8/18/08: CD4 312 18%, VL > 60K (considering meds)
12/19/07: CD4 550 28% VL > 100K (no meds yet)
Diagnosed 10/23/07

Offline madbrain

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2009, 10:36:53 PM »
Probably some 2 + 2 = 5 math, but it might make for an interesting topic.

From what I understand Prop 8 passed in California because a large number of black voters turned out.

Actually, this has been debunked.

http://www.freedomtomarry.org/press_center/prop_8_study_debunks_myths.php

Offline a2z

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  • Posts: 198
Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2009, 11:00:24 PM »
It "Sort of" debunks it...emphasis mine.

African-American and Latino support for Proposition 8 not significantly higher when religious attendance is factored out


That last part is key.

So does Obama's religious background give him a reason to be homophobic and is he worried about offending a large voting bloc by giving in on DOMA, Don't Ask Don't Tell and other things.
Dates are blood draw dates:
9/4/14: CD4 948, 37.9%, VL 150
5/23/14: CD4 895 --.-% VL UD - Truvada/Isentress
09/21/09: CD4 898 27.0% VL 120 - back on track, same meds.High level enzymes, but less so
06/15/09: CD4 478 21.8% VL 1150 - high liver enzymes... looks like I may not be resistant
05/22/09: Fixed insurance, resumed medicine
04/17/09: Ran out of medicine, could not resolve insurance problems
04/01/09: CD4 773 28% VL 120 - high liver enzymes
12/01/08: CD4 514 23% VL 630
10/17/08 started Reyataz, Norvir and Truvada. -- possibly minor neuropathy, but otherwise okay.
9/10/08: CD4 345 17%, VL > 78K
8/18/08: CD4 312 18%, VL > 60K (considering meds)
12/19/07: CD4 550 28% VL > 100K (no meds yet)
Diagnosed 10/23/07

Offline madbrain

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    • My personal site
Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2009, 11:20:05 PM »
It "Sort of" debunks it...emphasis mine.

African-American and Latino support for Proposition 8 not significantly higher when religious attendance is factored out


That last part is key.

Read the actual study. In particular page 4.

Here it is - sorry about the formatting:
Table 1. The Vote on Proposition 8
(% of
voters)
% voting ďYesĒ
on Proposition 8
Total 52
Sex
(46%) Men 54
(54%) Women 49
Age
(17%) 18‐29 45
(21%) 30‐44 48
(38%) 45‐64 47
(23%) 65 + 67
Race/Ethnicity
(68%) White 49
(7%) African American 58
(14%) Latino/Hispanic 59
(7%) Asian 48
Attendance of Religious Services
(45%) weekly 70
(12%) monthly 48
(14%) holidays and special occasions 44
(29%) hardly ever 30
Party Identification
(45%) Democratic 30
(18%) Independent 53
(34%) Republican 81
Political Ideology
(37%) Liberal 22
(27%) Moderate 51
(36%) Conservative 82
Have Lesbian/Gay Family or Friends
(26%) No 60
(74%) Yes 49

If you really want to split people by ethnicity, notice that Latinos voted for prop 8 by 59%, and represent 14% of the voters. african-americans voted for prop 8 by 58%, but are only 7%. I didn't hear any big outcry about the latino vote on prop 8. But I think it's silly to want to divide people that way.

Quote
So does Obama's religious background give him a reason to be homophobic and is he worried about offending a large voting bloc by giving in on DOMA, Don't Ask Don't Tell and other things.

I doubt very much that it's his religious background. Back when he ran for state senator, Obama actually supported same-sex marriage. His position changed for the worse when he decided to run for president. Unless he changed religion somehow in between, it can't be his religious background dictating that. Obama is just a calculating politician.

Offline a2z

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2009, 11:26:38 PM »
But I think it's silly to want to divide people that way.

It's silly to divide people by and large this way... BUT... with the exception that your background may have some influence on how you think.  I'm looking for evidence or lack of that here.   

I always have gotten the impression that Obama is homophobic.  Period.  (I know McCain is, although he did publically support a Tucson senator for coming out while admitting he didn't agree with the lifestyle.)   I want to understand why, or at least have some debate on it. 

While I mentioned prop 8, your focus is now on it.... let's move past and talk about Obama.
 
Dates are blood draw dates:
9/4/14: CD4 948, 37.9%, VL 150
5/23/14: CD4 895 --.-% VL UD - Truvada/Isentress
09/21/09: CD4 898 27.0% VL 120 - back on track, same meds.High level enzymes, but less so
06/15/09: CD4 478 21.8% VL 1150 - high liver enzymes... looks like I may not be resistant
05/22/09: Fixed insurance, resumed medicine
04/17/09: Ran out of medicine, could not resolve insurance problems
04/01/09: CD4 773 28% VL 120 - high liver enzymes
12/01/08: CD4 514 23% VL 630
10/17/08 started Reyataz, Norvir and Truvada. -- possibly minor neuropathy, but otherwise okay.
9/10/08: CD4 345 17%, VL > 78K
8/18/08: CD4 312 18%, VL > 60K (considering meds)
12/19/07: CD4 550 28% VL > 100K (no meds yet)
Diagnosed 10/23/07

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2009, 11:32:50 PM »

I always have gotten the impression that Obama is homophobic.  Period.

No, it sounds more like you're looking to make him out to be homophobic.  Period.  And you seem to be doing it just because he's black.

Frankly you sound a bit racist to me.  Period.

Let me know when Hillary or John McCain go in a black church and/or an NAACP meeting and discuss gay issues.  Thanks.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline a2z

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2009, 11:35:57 PM »
You've always been wonderfully simplistic Philicia.  For someone who likes to start controversy you seem to get a little upset when someone else does.

To be a little more constructive... why don't you give me evidence to the contrary on Obama instead of just attacking the post??

No, it sounds more like you're looking to make him out to be homophobic.  Period.  And you seem to be doing it just because he's black.

Frankly you sound a bit racist to me.  Period.

Let me know when Hillary or John McCain go in a black church and/or an NAACP meeting and discuss gay issues.  Thanks.
Dates are blood draw dates:
9/4/14: CD4 948, 37.9%, VL 150
5/23/14: CD4 895 --.-% VL UD - Truvada/Isentress
09/21/09: CD4 898 27.0% VL 120 - back on track, same meds.High level enzymes, but less so
06/15/09: CD4 478 21.8% VL 1150 - high liver enzymes... looks like I may not be resistant
05/22/09: Fixed insurance, resumed medicine
04/17/09: Ran out of medicine, could not resolve insurance problems
04/01/09: CD4 773 28% VL 120 - high liver enzymes
12/01/08: CD4 514 23% VL 630
10/17/08 started Reyataz, Norvir and Truvada. -- possibly minor neuropathy, but otherwise okay.
9/10/08: CD4 345 17%, VL > 78K
8/18/08: CD4 312 18%, VL > 60K (considering meds)
12/19/07: CD4 550 28% VL > 100K (no meds yet)
Diagnosed 10/23/07

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2009, 11:37:19 PM »
Excellent rebuttal.

I suppose as evidence it could be that he was for gay marriage (running just in Hyde park as a state legislator) before he was against it (running nationally)?

That's called political waffling/opportunism, not homophobia.

Any more wise questions?

(and you still didn't let me know if Hillary is homophobic too, but hey, she's white!)
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 11:41:27 PM by Miss Philicia »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline a2z

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  • Posts: 198
Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2009, 11:45:27 PM »
BTW, NAACP... if you are implying they are NOT racist...that's funny.  Look at what NAACP stands for. (When they change their name to the National Association for the Equality of All People, I'll listen.)

I'm very disappointed in Obama because I expected change, and I want to know what he's afraid of.  Why aren't we a priority for him?

Dates are blood draw dates:
9/4/14: CD4 948, 37.9%, VL 150
5/23/14: CD4 895 --.-% VL UD - Truvada/Isentress
09/21/09: CD4 898 27.0% VL 120 - back on track, same meds.High level enzymes, but less so
06/15/09: CD4 478 21.8% VL 1150 - high liver enzymes... looks like I may not be resistant
05/22/09: Fixed insurance, resumed medicine
04/17/09: Ran out of medicine, could not resolve insurance problems
04/01/09: CD4 773 28% VL 120 - high liver enzymes
12/01/08: CD4 514 23% VL 630
10/17/08 started Reyataz, Norvir and Truvada. -- possibly minor neuropathy, but otherwise okay.
9/10/08: CD4 345 17%, VL > 78K
8/18/08: CD4 312 18%, VL > 60K (considering meds)
12/19/07: CD4 550 28% VL > 100K (no meds yet)
Diagnosed 10/23/07

Offline GNYC09

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  • Posts: 702
Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2009, 11:45:43 PM »
I have to admit I see Miss Philicia's logic much more than I see yours.  If Obama was so homophobic, why would he say during numerous speeches (including recently at the NAACP) that anti-gay discrimination has no place in the U.S.?  Just because Obama isn't passing gay-friendly legislation at the speed you'd like doesn't mean he's "dragging his feet" or "homophobic".  For Chrissakes, he's got a recesssion, two wars, a potentially nuclear Iran and North Korea to deal with...

Offline a2z

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  • Posts: 198
Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2009, 11:47:12 PM »
I have to admit I see Miss Philicia's logic much more than I see yours.


 If Obama was so homophobic, why would he say during numerous speeches (including recently at the NAACP) that anti-gay discrimination has no place in the U.S.?


That's the problem...he's SAYING it...he's not DOING it.  Actions speak louder than words. Action now.
Dates are blood draw dates:
9/4/14: CD4 948, 37.9%, VL 150
5/23/14: CD4 895 --.-% VL UD - Truvada/Isentress
09/21/09: CD4 898 27.0% VL 120 - back on track, same meds.High level enzymes, but less so
06/15/09: CD4 478 21.8% VL 1150 - high liver enzymes... looks like I may not be resistant
05/22/09: Fixed insurance, resumed medicine
04/17/09: Ran out of medicine, could not resolve insurance problems
04/01/09: CD4 773 28% VL 120 - high liver enzymes
12/01/08: CD4 514 23% VL 630
10/17/08 started Reyataz, Norvir and Truvada. -- possibly minor neuropathy, but otherwise okay.
9/10/08: CD4 345 17%, VL > 78K
8/18/08: CD4 312 18%, VL > 60K (considering meds)
12/19/07: CD4 550 28% VL > 100K (no meds yet)
Diagnosed 10/23/07

Offline GNYC09

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  • Posts: 702
Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2009, 11:47:52 PM »
I'd love to hear where you got the idea that the NAACP is a homophobic organization when their chair has stated "Gay Rights are Civil Rights"...please, educate me  :-*

Offline Mouse

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2009, 11:48:32 PM »
You've always been wonderfully simplistic Philicia.  For someone who likes to start controversy you seem to get a little upset when someone else does.

To be a little more constructive... why don't you give me evidence to the contrary on Obama instead of just attacking the post??


Er, so are you trying to start controversy, because that seems kind of counterproductive to a real discussion.

And anyway, if you're REALLY trying to pin all of these problems on black people then you should be prepared for a shitstorm, nevermind people getting "a little upset". How you can even come to the conclusion you've come to is absolutely beyond me. Simplistic indeed.


Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2009, 11:49:31 PM »
 
BTW, NAACP... if you are implying they are NOT racist...that's funny.  Look at what NAACP stands for. (When they change their name to the National Association for the Equality of All People, I'll listen.)


I'd expect no other type of commentary about the NAACP from a Republican like yourself.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline a2z

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  • Posts: 198
Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2009, 11:50:50 PM »
I'd love to hear where you got the idea that the NAACP is a homophobic organization when their chair has stated "Gay Rights are Civil Rights"...please, educate me  :-*

I never said they were homophobic.  I said racist... and their title implies that. 
Dates are blood draw dates:
9/4/14: CD4 948, 37.9%, VL 150
5/23/14: CD4 895 --.-% VL UD - Truvada/Isentress
09/21/09: CD4 898 27.0% VL 120 - back on track, same meds.High level enzymes, but less so
06/15/09: CD4 478 21.8% VL 1150 - high liver enzymes... looks like I may not be resistant
05/22/09: Fixed insurance, resumed medicine
04/17/09: Ran out of medicine, could not resolve insurance problems
04/01/09: CD4 773 28% VL 120 - high liver enzymes
12/01/08: CD4 514 23% VL 630
10/17/08 started Reyataz, Norvir and Truvada. -- possibly minor neuropathy, but otherwise okay.
9/10/08: CD4 345 17%, VL > 78K
8/18/08: CD4 312 18%, VL > 60K (considering meds)
12/19/07: CD4 550 28% VL > 100K (no meds yet)
Diagnosed 10/23/07

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2009, 11:52:34 PM »
jebus... talk about simplistic
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2009, 11:52:43 PM »
I hate the word homophobic. Obama doesn't have a panic attack when he meets gay people.

It is obvious Obama is not against gay people but he is only going to stick his neck out so far. He's not stupid.

Offline a2z

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  • Posts: 198
Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2009, 11:55:26 PM »
Er, so are you trying to start controversy, because that seems kind of counterproductive to a real discussion.

And anyway, if you're REALLY trying to pin all of these problems on black people then you should be prepared for a shitstorm, nevermind people getting "a little upset". How you can even come to the conclusion you've come to is absolutely beyond me. Simplistic indeed.



Yes, I am trying to start controversy a little bit for a change.  

Notice I didn't blame anything on black people...I asked... and I love the fact that people are reading into it instead of reading what I actually said.  That's what I was hoping to get to with the Prop 8 thing... it wasn't the fact they were black, it was the fact they were RELIGIOUS.

But the fact Obama hasn't made some of this legislation a priority is a massive disappointment for me.  I know he has shitloads going on, and so far has been rather ineffective in my view. But the fact he hasn't seemed to make progress on ANY of them I think opens the door to a valid question.  Is he homophobic?  Or does he simply think we'll sit down and roll over because we won't vote for a Palin?
 

Dates are blood draw dates:
9/4/14: CD4 948, 37.9%, VL 150
5/23/14: CD4 895 --.-% VL UD - Truvada/Isentress
09/21/09: CD4 898 27.0% VL 120 - back on track, same meds.High level enzymes, but less so
06/15/09: CD4 478 21.8% VL 1150 - high liver enzymes... looks like I may not be resistant
05/22/09: Fixed insurance, resumed medicine
04/17/09: Ran out of medicine, could not resolve insurance problems
04/01/09: CD4 773 28% VL 120 - high liver enzymes
12/01/08: CD4 514 23% VL 630
10/17/08 started Reyataz, Norvir and Truvada. -- possibly minor neuropathy, but otherwise okay.
9/10/08: CD4 345 17%, VL > 78K
8/18/08: CD4 312 18%, VL > 60K (considering meds)
12/19/07: CD4 550 28% VL > 100K (no meds yet)
Diagnosed 10/23/07

Offline a2z

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  • Posts: 198
Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2009, 11:56:00 PM »
I hate the word homophobic. Obama doesn't have a panic attack when he meets gay people.

It is obvious Obama is not against gay people but he is only going to stick his neck out so far. He's not stupid.

Fair enough on the homophobic part.  Sorta like throwing the word racist around :) (Note, I'm not accusing you of doing that GSO Gym Rat.)
Dates are blood draw dates:
9/4/14: CD4 948, 37.9%, VL 150
5/23/14: CD4 895 --.-% VL UD - Truvada/Isentress
09/21/09: CD4 898 27.0% VL 120 - back on track, same meds.High level enzymes, but less so
06/15/09: CD4 478 21.8% VL 1150 - high liver enzymes... looks like I may not be resistant
05/22/09: Fixed insurance, resumed medicine
04/17/09: Ran out of medicine, could not resolve insurance problems
04/01/09: CD4 773 28% VL 120 - high liver enzymes
12/01/08: CD4 514 23% VL 630
10/17/08 started Reyataz, Norvir and Truvada. -- possibly minor neuropathy, but otherwise okay.
9/10/08: CD4 345 17%, VL > 78K
8/18/08: CD4 312 18%, VL > 60K (considering meds)
12/19/07: CD4 550 28% VL > 100K (no meds yet)
Diagnosed 10/23/07

Offline Mouse

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  • Om nom nom.
Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2009, 11:58:57 PM »
Yes, I am trying to start controversy a little bit for a change.  

Notice I didn't blame anything on black people...I asked... and I love the fact that people are reading into it instead of reading what I actually said.  That's what I was hoping to get to with the Prop 8 thing... it wasn't the fact they were black, it was the fact they were RELIGIOUS.

But the fact Obama hasn't made some of this legislation a priority is a massive disappointment for me.  I know he has shitloads going on, and so far has been rather ineffective in my view. But the fact he hasn't seemed to make progress on ANY of them I think opens the door to a valid question.  Is he homophobic?  Or does he simply think we'll sit down and roll over because we won't vote for a Palin?
 



Then why would you even bring black people into the discussion? If it's a religion issue, then it's an issue with a religion, not a race. I'm sensing some kind of agenda here lol~~~~.

I really don't think that when the country is in as much shit as it is in right now that gay issues are going to be a priority. Honestly I'd rather be able to find a job when I graduate from college rather than be able to marry my boyfriend right now. Maybe some people disagree with that. I don't care.


Edit: And how about instead of *trying* to start controversy, you actually initiate intelligent discussion with facts and non-hysterical ideas, kthx.

Offline ademas

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2009, 12:06:48 AM »
I think there are more pressing things for Obama to focus on at the moment, and that require perhaps more of his political capital, and I don't say that lightly.

I also think he sees the writing on the wall.  The generations of voters coming forth are more and more in favor of gay marriage and equality, and states are passing legislation (albeit slowly...)  The writiing's on the wall.  It is happening.  Two steps forward, one step backwards, perhaps--but it is happening. 

Offline a2z

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  • Posts: 198
Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2009, 12:08:27 AM »
Then why would you even bring black people into the discussion? If it's a religion issue, then it's an issue with a religion, not a race. I'm sensing some kind of agenda here lol~~~~.

So why did Prop 8 get blamed on the black population instead of the religious population.... that sounds like racism on the part of the news media to me.

In other words, I was asking...is there something cultural here I didn't know about or was it what I really suspected in the first place?

But this country is so PC.... that if you even ask the question, you must be a racist.  Simplistic thinking at best.


I really don't think that when the country is in as much shit as it is in right now that gay issues are going to be a priority.


I care.  I care a lot.  It's great that you don't.



Edit: And how about instead of *trying* to start controversy, you actually initiate intelligent discussion with facts and non-hysterical ideas, kthx.

Ah, but I was trying to do that too...except for two people, everyone else (to date) gets a fail.

Honestly I'd rather be able to find a job when I graduate from college rather than be able to marry my boyfriend right now.

Yeah but he's failing at that too.  But yes, I agree survival is more important.  Obama has been one big disappointment so far.

Dates are blood draw dates:
9/4/14: CD4 948, 37.9%, VL 150
5/23/14: CD4 895 --.-% VL UD - Truvada/Isentress
09/21/09: CD4 898 27.0% VL 120 - back on track, same meds.High level enzymes, but less so
06/15/09: CD4 478 21.8% VL 1150 - high liver enzymes... looks like I may not be resistant
05/22/09: Fixed insurance, resumed medicine
04/17/09: Ran out of medicine, could not resolve insurance problems
04/01/09: CD4 773 28% VL 120 - high liver enzymes
12/01/08: CD4 514 23% VL 630
10/17/08 started Reyataz, Norvir and Truvada. -- possibly minor neuropathy, but otherwise okay.
9/10/08: CD4 345 17%, VL > 78K
8/18/08: CD4 312 18%, VL > 60K (considering meds)
12/19/07: CD4 550 28% VL > 100K (no meds yet)
Diagnosed 10/23/07

Offline a2z

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  • Posts: 198
Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2009, 12:12:37 AM »
I think there are more pressing things for Obama to focus on at the moment, and that require perhaps more of his political capital, and I don't say that lightly.

I also think he sees the writing on the wall.  The generations of voters coming forth are more and more in favor of gay marriage and equality, and states are passing legislation (albeit slowly...)  The writiing's on the wall.  It is happening.  Two steps forward, one step backwards, perhaps--but it is happening. 

Thank you -- that's the best answer I've seen.  It was implied with -- and I'm paraphrasing -- Obama is not stupid.  But you said it spectacularly.

So to get him to act.... it needs to cost him politically to not act, right?

I'm merely asking the question before people accuse me of a Presidential conspiracy.

Dates are blood draw dates:
9/4/14: CD4 948, 37.9%, VL 150
5/23/14: CD4 895 --.-% VL UD - Truvada/Isentress
09/21/09: CD4 898 27.0% VL 120 - back on track, same meds.High level enzymes, but less so
06/15/09: CD4 478 21.8% VL 1150 - high liver enzymes... looks like I may not be resistant
05/22/09: Fixed insurance, resumed medicine
04/17/09: Ran out of medicine, could not resolve insurance problems
04/01/09: CD4 773 28% VL 120 - high liver enzymes
12/01/08: CD4 514 23% VL 630
10/17/08 started Reyataz, Norvir and Truvada. -- possibly minor neuropathy, but otherwise okay.
9/10/08: CD4 345 17%, VL > 78K
8/18/08: CD4 312 18%, VL > 60K (considering meds)
12/19/07: CD4 550 28% VL > 100K (no meds yet)
Diagnosed 10/23/07

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2009, 12:15:19 AM »
It's already been pointed out to you that he was pro-gay marriage in the 90's running in Hyde Park. 
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline ademas

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2009, 12:20:28 AM »
Sorry.  I've lost your logic.

Criticize away.  It's apparent that this has nothing to do with the issues you mention, and everything to do with partisanship. 

Offline a2z

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2009, 12:22:49 AM »
Sorry.  I've lost your logic.

Criticize away.  It's apparent that this has nothing to do with the issues you mention, and everything to do with partisanship. 

Nothing to criticize.... I'm a little confused.

I'm just saying is this what we have to do to get him to act?

To me, it's a bigger priority than everything except the economy.
Dates are blood draw dates:
9/4/14: CD4 948, 37.9%, VL 150
5/23/14: CD4 895 --.-% VL UD - Truvada/Isentress
09/21/09: CD4 898 27.0% VL 120 - back on track, same meds.High level enzymes, but less so
06/15/09: CD4 478 21.8% VL 1150 - high liver enzymes... looks like I may not be resistant
05/22/09: Fixed insurance, resumed medicine
04/17/09: Ran out of medicine, could not resolve insurance problems
04/01/09: CD4 773 28% VL 120 - high liver enzymes
12/01/08: CD4 514 23% VL 630
10/17/08 started Reyataz, Norvir and Truvada. -- possibly minor neuropathy, but otherwise okay.
9/10/08: CD4 345 17%, VL > 78K
8/18/08: CD4 312 18%, VL > 60K (considering meds)
12/19/07: CD4 550 28% VL > 100K (no meds yet)
Diagnosed 10/23/07

Offline anniebc

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2009, 12:25:33 AM »
Good grief the man has only been in office for 8 months, he's has furniture and wardrobes to reorganise, give him time.. ;)

But seriously guys please continue to debate and discuss, but I know from past experience when the words Homophobia, racism and religion start to get banded about things tend to get a little out of hand, please don't let that happen here..just a wee gentle reminder to keep it civil...OK?

Hugs
Jan :-*
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Offline tokyodecadence

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2009, 01:06:12 AM »
I agree with the statement above about the job situation. Healthcare and the down-and-out economy are much more of a priority for the nation as A WHOLE than gay marriage. He's got 3.5 years, give it time. Republicans are so quick to whine (OMG Obama's in office and nothing's changed, NOW WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK OF HIM!?!?!?!?!?). It happens with EVERY issue that's going on. Come back in a few years and gripe about action if nothing's been done by then.



And if you REALLY want to get specific, if Obama didn't have anything in the works, what exactly do you call the lift on the HIV ban? I'd have to say that as the president, he'd a have slight sway on that little caveat going through.
http://immigrationequality.org/blog/?cat=31 <---more info on the ban being lifted and Obama's support.


Give it time. That doesn't mean to say that you should just sit around *waiting* for things to happen, as the article clearly states:
“Clearly, time is on our side but we’re going to have to fight even harder to reach the finish line.”
[.Fod„o.]

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2009, 04:25:40 AM »
Obama Pro Gay marriage? That's a joke. He is Pro Civil Union and he's stated it many times. His beliefs is that marriage is between one male and one female.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2009, 04:33:11 AM »



  2+2=5

  Only Michelle would really know.  Why don't you just ask her?
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Offline madbrain

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #30 on: July 26, 2009, 07:21:06 AM »
Notice I didn't blame anything on black people...I asked.

You sure did. Look at at what you wrote in opening this topic. You made a statement that black people were responsible for the passing of prop 8. The only thing you then questioned was these people's religion, not their responsibility in voting for prop 8.


From what I understand Prop 8 passed in California because a large number of black voters turned out.  I don't particularly get this... are the black voters who turned out largely Baptist or another religion.  Are there other cultural issues I am not aware of?

Offline madbrain

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #31 on: July 26, 2009, 07:35:15 AM »
It's silly to divide people by and large this way... BUT... with the exception that your background may have some influence on how you think.  I'm looking for evidence or lack of that here.   

No, you are just trying to make generalizations about black people, and that's racist. We all have our own individuality, and don't you forget that, regardless of what statistics say. Statistics may work when talking about a large group, but if what you really want to talk is a single man, our President, then statistics really don't apply.

Quote
I always have gotten the impression that Obama is homophobic.  Period.  (I know McCain is, although he did publically support a Tucson senator for coming out while admitting he didn't agree with the lifestyle.)   I want to understand why, or at least have some debate on it. 

You can't have a debate without presenting any facts. What you have presented is just your opinion.

I have never gotten the impression that Obama was homophobic. Period.
There, did that help the debate any ?

Quote
While I mentioned prop 8, your focus is now on it.... let's move past and talk about Obama.

I'm not going to let you off that easy. You are the one who brought up prop 8, and that was largely irrelevant to the question of this topic. If you didn't want that discussed, you shouldn't have brought it up. If you want to further your point, try bringing up something that's actually relevant to that issue, like, say, referencing something Obama has said or done.

Offline madbrain

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #32 on: July 26, 2009, 07:44:27 AM »
BTW, NAACP... if you are implying they are NOT racist...that's funny.  Look at what NAACP stands for. (When they change their name to the National Association for the Equality of All People, I'll listen.)

Then I suggest you read their Mission statement .
http://www.naacp.org/about/mission/index.htm

"The mission of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People is to ensure the political, educational, social, and economic equality of rights of all persons and to eliminate racial hatred and racial discrimination."

From Webster's :

racist: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
or
racial prejudice or discrimination

NAACP exists to fight racism, not further it.

Offline madbrain

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #33 on: July 26, 2009, 07:47:03 AM »
I'd love to hear where you got the idea that the NAACP is a homophobic organization when their chair has stated "Gay Rights are Civil Rights"...please, educate me  :-*

Actually, he said nothing about NAACP being homophobic - he said they were racist ! They are neither, of course.

Offline madbrain

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #34 on: July 26, 2009, 07:57:40 AM »
Notice I didn't blame anything on black people...I asked... and I love the fact that people are reading into it instead of reading what I actually said.  That's what I was hoping to get to with the Prop 8 thing... it wasn't the fact they were black, it was the fact they were RELIGIOUS.

Sorry, not buying it. Black people are far from the only ones who are religious. And who do you think they got their religion from ? You mentioned black people specifically twice in your opening argument. You never mentioned religious people of any other ethnicity.

Quote
But the fact he hasn't seemed to make progress on ANY of them I think opens the door to a valid question.  Is he homophobic?

I don't think that's the question it leads to. There isn't any evidence that Obama is homophobic. That he hasn't yet been able to fullfill all his electoral promises on gay rights yet does not mean he is homophobic. Can you quote anything homophobic Obama has said ?

I am impatient about gay rights too, but IMO the right question to ask is "why hasn't Obama acted taken meaningful action on gay rights yet, and when will he ?".

Offline madbrain

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #35 on: July 26, 2009, 08:11:53 AM »
FYI, Webster's defines homophobia as :

irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals

I don't see how one can say that of Obama.

Fair enough on the homophobic part.

So, should we consider this topic closed, then ?

Offline madbrain

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2009, 08:33:58 AM »
Then why would you even bring black people into the discussion? If it's a religion issue, then it's an issue with a religion, not a race. I'm sensing some kind of agenda here lol~~~~.

Nicely stated.

Quote
I really don't think that when the country is in as much shit as it is in right now that gay issues are going to be a priority. Honestly I'd rather be able to find a job when I graduate from college rather than be able to marry my boyfriend right now. Maybe some people disagree with that. I don't care.

How about being able to do both ? Even if marrying your bf doesn't matter to you right now personally as much as finding a job, and understandably so, it matters a great deal to a lot of others who are older than you, some of whom have been waiting for a long time, and many others dying (among other things, of AIDS) before having the chance to get married, which opens the door of a host of federal & state benefits.

Offline madbrain

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #37 on: July 26, 2009, 08:38:25 AM »
Obama Pro Gay marriage? That's a joke.

No, it's not a joke . But it was 13 years ago, before DOMA.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0109/Obama_backed_samesex_marriage_in_1996.html

Offline madbrain

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2009, 08:46:21 AM »
And if you REALLY want to get specific, if Obama didn't have anything in the works, what exactly do you call the lift on the HIV ban?

Not in effect yet.

Bush had it in the works too, and was on record about repealing it as well, but his administration never followed through with updating their rules, even after Congress repealed the HIV travel ban last year.

I will celebrate when it's actually done.

Offline ademas

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2009, 11:45:58 AM »
Obama Pro Gay marriage? That's a joke. He is Pro Civil Union and he's stated it many times. His beliefs is that marriage is between one male and one female.

I know...isn't it horrible? 

It just makes me yearn for the good old days, when we were either completely ignored (Ronald Reagan) or actively beat down (Dubya and his brilliant idea to amend the constitution).

 ::)

Offline a2z

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2009, 11:58:12 AM »


I am impatient about gay rights too, but IMO the right question to ask is "why hasn't Obama acted taken meaningful action on gay rights yet, and when will he ?".

-

If I asked it that way, I guarantee you I would not have gotten answer other than "I don't know."
Dates are blood draw dates:
9/4/14: CD4 948, 37.9%, VL 150
5/23/14: CD4 895 --.-% VL UD - Truvada/Isentress
09/21/09: CD4 898 27.0% VL 120 - back on track, same meds.High level enzymes, but less so
06/15/09: CD4 478 21.8% VL 1150 - high liver enzymes... looks like I may not be resistant
05/22/09: Fixed insurance, resumed medicine
04/17/09: Ran out of medicine, could not resolve insurance problems
04/01/09: CD4 773 28% VL 120 - high liver enzymes
12/01/08: CD4 514 23% VL 630
10/17/08 started Reyataz, Norvir and Truvada. -- possibly minor neuropathy, but otherwise okay.
9/10/08: CD4 345 17%, VL > 78K
8/18/08: CD4 312 18%, VL > 60K (considering meds)
12/19/07: CD4 550 28% VL > 100K (no meds yet)
Diagnosed 10/23/07

Offline physicsguy

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2009, 12:25:53 PM »
So by some of the "logic" espoused in this thread, could we consider the Human Rights Campaign to be a heterophobic organization?

As for Obama, I think it's pretty apparent to anyone with a functioning brain and access to videos of the president that he's a pro-gay-marriage, pro-UHC, faux-religious (I really hope he's lying about his religion) liberal who also happens to be politically savvy enough to realize that promoting those positions in a presidential race would ensure he never made it past the Iowa primaries.

Offline Joe K

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2009, 12:52:35 PM »
Probably some 2 + 2 = 5 math, but it might make for an interesting topic.

From what I understand Prop 8 passed in California because a large number of black voters turned out.  I don't particularly get this... are the black voters who turned out largely Baptist or another religion.  Are there other cultural issues I am not aware of?

And does Obama share some of these cultural issues, or at least, is he sensitive to a larger voting block who has these issues.

I generally don't like to stereotype a large group of people, but sometimes there is truth in stereotypes, even if its a nugget. Just wondering if this is why Obama is dragging his feet on some issues.

I'm quoting your OP and I am mystified on how you can draw any correlation between Prop 8, the role black voters may have played in its passage and how that somehow translates into President Obama being homophobic.  Talk about stereotyping people, you have done a remarkable job in just a few sentences.  My understanding of Prop 8's defeat, was partly because more black and Latino voters were drawn to the poles, by the choice of Obama as president and that many blacks and Latinos hold religious or cultural beliefs that do not support gay marriage.  I think it may be just that simple.  I do not know the actual vote counts, but if you did some research into the numbers, you may discover that because more black and Latinos voted, that may have been enough to defeat the proposition.

And for the sake of discussion, let me make a few assumptions.  Prop 8 was defeated because a greater number of minorities voted, many of whom do not support gay marriage.  Many of the minorities do not support gay marriage either because of religious or cultural beliefs.  With that said, what does Obama have to do with any of it?  Obama has clearly stated he does not support gay marriage, but he does support Civil Unions and equality for gays.  That hardly sounds homophobic to me.  Instead, it sounds like what millions of Americans think and if so, are they all homophobic as well?  People who hold negative views of gays, do so for a myriad of reasons.  Both religion and culture have a lot to do with that, but religion and culture are fluid concepts that ebb and flow with the political and societal winds.  

We know that because our history details many things, such as slavery, that America once believed to be just, that have been outlawed, as our culture and society matured.  Yet eliminating slavery, involved a radical divide in America and caused the Civil War, pitting the North against the South.  Thousands of brave Americans gave their life, for what they believed to be right and as is always the case, in situations like these, someone has to lose their side of the argument for society to advance.

We have seen it time and time again, whether it be Prohibition, Woman's Right to Vote, ABORTION or equal rights for gays, otherwise known as simply "equal rights" for gays.  It involves a great deal of debate and often involves legislation to correct the errors in our laws or customs.  Take the right of abortion.  It was granted through "Row vs. Wade" in 1973, but here we are in 2009 and millions of Americans want to strip that right from women.  I know why most want to do so, but that is irrelevant to me and any such discussion, because what you believe is what matters, not why you believe it.  Sadly, with our form of government that includes lobbyists, religious, political and cultural groups can influence how our Congress legislates matters.  

However, the one thing that Congress can never legislate is the will of the American people and I don't always mean a majority.  History has shown that when enough good people come together, anything is possible.  Women took to the streets to secure their right to vote, just as they did to secure their right to abortion.  Gays rioted at the Stonewall Inn, to begin securing our rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, just the way we are.  When AIDS hit, both gays and lesbians stood firm and demanded that the needs of the HIV community be met and in the ultimate example of waiting for change, here we are thirty years into the pandemic and we still have pozzies dying, for lack of medication because of ADAP waiting lists.  We can spend ONE TRILLION DOLLARS on a immoral war, but cannot find an extra 50 million dollars, to save the lives of our own citizens.  So you tell me, whose fault is that?

So now, back to Obama.  He has already stated that he supports gay rights and he does support gay marriage, it is just that he rather call it Civil Unions, but in the end, it would grant the same exact benefits to gays.  Maybe, we will have to wait and see.  In the meantime, Obama's State Department has granted partnership rights to diplomatic employees, with the exception of medical coverage.  Not perfect yet, but damn close.  He's also working to reverse the HIV limitations on visitors.  What exactly did Mr. Bush ever do FOR us, as opposed TO us?  Do you comprehend what Bush tried to do, in outlawing our very existence, with an amendment to the US Constitution?  And you call Obama homophobic?  You are kidding right?  I surely hope so.

You also seem to think that major shifts in culture or legislation can simply be willed into being.  I wish that was the case, but it is not.  Major change can take years or decades to achieve and rather than worrying about unimportant things, you might want to concentrate on how you can affect change, rather than always waiting for the other guy to do it.  If you think President Obama, should be doing more for gays, then tell him, not us.  Talk with your city, state and federal government about how you want YOUR equal rights as a gay man, because talk can only go so far.

If you want to discuss gay issues, rather than complaining that someone else is not securing your equal rights fast enough, fine.  However, when you start to throw around words like stereotyping, racist and homophobic, you become part of the problem, not part of the solution.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2009, 01:11:36 PM by killfoile »

Offline manchesteruk

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2009, 02:47:02 PM »
Probably some 2 + 2 = 5 math, but it might make for an interesting topic.

From what I understand Prop 8 passed in California because a large number of black voters turned out.  I don't particularly get this... are the black voters who turned out largely Baptist or another religion.  Are there other cultural issues I am not aware of?

And does Obama share some of these cultural issues, or at least, is he sensitive to a larger voting block who has these issues.

I generally don't like to stereotype a large group of people, but sometimes there is truth in stereotypes, even if its a nugget. Just wondering if this is why Obama is dragging his feet on some issues.

 :o
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Offline randym431

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2009, 03:10:26 PM »
Can't resist this one...
First, I too believe black voters were probably the main cause prop 8 passed.
An education issue. I do not feel many black voters are quite "there" yet
when it comes to supporting gays. Especially black women.

Second, I was very surprised Jesse Jackson did not have more of an impact on black voters and their thinking on the issue.
I know Jesse Jackson is totally onboard with advancing gay rights issues.
But on this one, they either didnít pay attention to him, of he failed to make the impact.
Im not even sure of his role i.e. prop 8, black voter turnout, Obama, in CA pre election.
That is, how hard/often he was in CA for Obama and Jackson's linking the two issues:
Vote for Obama. Vote down prop 8. But again, as I remember there was a bit of a riff at one point between Jackson and Obama.

Third, I don't think I remember Obama, out in CA during the election, vocally asking voters to turn down prop 8 on election day... Like Jimmy Carter always did back when he was running and when CA had the other anti-gay prop concerning, was it, gay teachers??
If Obama made no mention of rejecting prop 8 during his speeches, then THAT is simply unforgivable. A presidential candidate has a HUGE impact, at that point, on a prop-issue on the ballot. If Obama said nothing, that is totally unforgivable. I would like to know if he ever did or did not comment on the prop 8 issue, when out in CA running for election.
Anyone know??

And lastÖ I truly worry and an VERY concerned with the US Supreme Court and the addition of judge Sonia Sotomayor. Most gay groups automatically put her in the ďsupport gay issuesĒ slot. Especially if same sex marriage comes before the court.
I would not totally count on her support just so fastÖ

But one huge advancement I am so glad to see on gay issues, like same sex marriage, is more and more senators that were pro civil unions, against marriage, are now changing their view and coming out for same sex marriage as the only real solution.
Iowa senator Tom Harkin for one. That is encouraging.

Offline Merlin

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2009, 04:24:43 PM »
But one huge advancement I am so glad to see on gay issues, like same sex marriage, is more and more senators that were pro civil unions, against marriage, are now changing their view and coming out for same sex marriage as the only real solution.
Iowa senator Tom Harkin for one. That is encouraging.

Not to mention another great human being, NY State Senator Tom Duane. :-*

Neither Obama nor Hilary are personally homophobic empirically. It's politics and getting votes. If flavor of the month gets you the winning count, there goes the budget. If one recalled watching Hilary on Ellen last year, it was pretty slick on how Hilary skirted around the issue of gay marriage when Ellen asked her point blank. It's like putting your head in the lion's mouth and pretend it's just a cat. Eventually, somebody's gonna get hurt real bad.  ;D

Give Obama time. It's way too easy to complain about starving when the main roast is just 8 mins into the cooking. Snack on some appetizers first will ya?  ::)
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Offline PeteNYNJ

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2009, 04:59:04 PM »
Black people responsible for prop 8?  Um...according the census, blacks make up 8.5% of the population of CA.  Prop 8 passed by about 5 percent.  So in order to "blame" blacks, you assume every one of them voted, and the vast majority of them voted to repeal prop 8?  hmmmm  sounds sketchy.  

Also, hasn't it be found that the VAST amount of money to repeal gay marriage in CA came from Mormons living out of state?  

Also, saying that the NAACP is racist because they are organized around the black experience is ridiculous.  Is the GMHC sexist because it was originally organized around the health crisis facing gay men?  

« Last Edit: July 26, 2009, 05:12:07 PM by PeteNYNJ »

Offline mjmel

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #47 on: July 26, 2009, 05:06:02 PM »
To original poster: Hell, I've been ' out ' since 1975 and been around the block a few times so that I don't frighten easily. I can tell you that in all this time, gays can be a frightening thing, now and again.
So if Obama is a bit homophobic I can't hardly blame the guy seeings he's not had to time to get comfy with it as I've had.

 ;)
Mike

Offline mecch

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2009, 05:08:17 PM »
obama homophobic? bah humbug.
he even lectured blacks at his NAACP speech about civil rights for homos.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Is Obama homophobic?
« Reply #49 on: July 26, 2009, 05:34:14 PM »

If Obama made no mention of rejecting prop 8 during his speeches, then THAT is simply unforgivable. A presidential candidate has a HUGE impact, at that point, on a prop-issue on the ballot. If Obama said nothing, that is totally unforgivable. I would like to know if he ever did or did not comment on the prop 8 issue, when out in CA running for election.
Anyone know??

From what I have read he didn't say a lot about Prop 8. This is what I have been able to find:

"I've stated my opposition to this. I think [Prop 8 is] unnecessary. I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. I am not in favor of gay marriage. But when you start playing around with constitutions, just to prohibit somebody who cares about another person, it just seems to me that's not what America's about. Usually, our constitutions expand liberties, they don't contract them." http://www.queerty.com/obama-prop-8-unnecessary-but-doesnt-believe-in-gay-marriage-20081103/

 


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