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Author Topic: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?  (Read 35678 times)

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Offline fivecantonas

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African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« on: August 11, 2006, 06:23:12 PM »
Firstly may I say after plucking up the courage to post on this forum I find it inspiring to read some of the stories on here and how brave people are. Not only that but the time a lot of you guys give to users on this forum is to be highly praised !!

I am sure this story is typical but I was wondering if anyone could give me realistic chances of HIV infection after a scare seven weeks ago. I went to the World Cup in the summer with friends in Stuttgart. After a very drunken night I ended up in a brothel in the red light district of the city,
unfortunately my so called friends had left me.

I remember being in a room with a sex worker putting a condom on me and I remember oral sex, I also remember a very brief session of penetrative vaginal sex then she left the room, (lets say five to ten minutes - tops - ALL PROTECTED)

This is where things become a little bit hazy....

I removed the condom and discarded it and she came back with a bottle of champagne we drank it together and there was a lot of fumbling masturbation, further brief oral sex, (ALL UNPROTECTCED). For the life of me I cannot remember further vaginal sex, if there was again we are talking a matter of minutes, (UNPROTECTED) but so much of this part of the night is a blur !! I did not ejaculate and must have came to my senses soon after as I remember hurriedly getting dressed and literally running out of the brothel.

The lady was South African but spoke fluent GERMAN so presume she had resided there for some time. I selfishly went back the next day but apparently she only worked weekends, I spoke to one of her co-workers who said I had nothing to worry about and she was married with three children, (not sure of the relevance of this) and clean, but the fact she told me they always use condoms and I know I received unprotected oral sex leads me to believe they often say this to clients regardless.

Since the incident my testing has been as follows:

1) Full STD screening 10 days after contact, (NEGATIVE)
2) 30 day HIV DUO P24 and HIV 1+2 COMBO TEST Fourth Generation UK Private Clinic, (NEGATIVE)
3) 47 day HIV DUO P24 and HIV 1+2 COMBO TEST Fourth Generation UK Private Clinic, (NEGATIVE)

My doctor tells me that my chances of HIV infection where less than 1% to start even if there was brief vaginal sex and the lady was HIV+ and that with the testing I had received I should move on with my life - he also added 1) at six weeks modern tests are more than 99% accurate and 2) He had never seen a patient testing postive after six weeks of the same exposure since they introduced this test several years ago, coupled with the four week test and the STD screening this should be considered conclusive, and finally 3) I could completely stop worrying about the oral sex regardless of any other events.

In terms of symptoms I have had very few, except what I think must be anxiety driven, i.e. diarrhea / grumbling stomach / sweats / chest pain / sore throat and many sleepless nights, however they all seem to come and go depending on my state of mind.

I have not discussed with my wife as I fear it could destroy our relationship, but today she started with back pain and slight fever - I think I may have passed something on.

Do you think I am being ridiculous? Is my Doctor a complete optimist?, I find it hard to believe that there would only ever be a 1% chance of transmission when you hear of the epidemic in Africa and so many new cases in industrialised countries. I live in the UK and they stipulate three month window period, so why does my doc tell me at six weeks everything is fine?

I am close to tears most days worrying about going for a further test, i.e. 10 / 12 weeks and the fact I could have infected my wife.

Thanks in advance for any responses...(sorry for the novel like post)






« Last Edit: August 11, 2006, 06:28:49 PM by fivecantonas »

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2006, 06:44:47 PM »
Five,

First up let me say that HIV is not an easy virus to transmit. Particularly from female to male. There is absolutely no risk to you from the unprotected oral sex you had. HIV is not transmitted that way.

Since you can't recall if you had unprotected vaginal sex (though it seems unlikely given that the sex worker put a condom on you at the start -- why would she change half way through?) you're right to have a test. Your 47 day result is an excellent indicator of a negative results at the 12-13 week mark.

Sexually active people should have a full STD screen at least twice a year. A full screen includes an HIV antibody test. You should know that there are other STD's, such as chlamydia and gonorrhoea which are far more prevalent and contagious than HIV.

I would encourage you to read our glorious Welcome Thread to learn more about how HIV is and is not transmitted.

Regards,

MtD

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2006, 06:57:26 PM »
Hi there...

Thanks for the lightning quick response, I did read all the welcome notes and the main reason I continued to post a thread was I could not understand how my doctor has come to the assumptions he has?

If a test at four weeks and six weeks is considered conclusive, why the 12 week window period? I do not understand where he has come to the 99% figure, also I have read so many stories of people contracting HIV through one single sexual act I also find it hard to acknowledge 1% per vaginal sexual act being a realistic figure - I have no problem in being told the truth about my situation, but felt that due to it being a private clinic they just wanted my money and that was that....

I have a test schduled with a GUM clinic in Manchester, (England) at the 10 week point to try and ease some of my anxiety, but I think this could be a tough three weeks....

Still very worried about the true transmission risks?


Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2006, 07:10:19 PM »
If a test at four weeks and six weeks is considered conclusive, why the 12 week window period? I do not understand where he has come to the 99% figure, also I have read so many stories of people contracting HIV through one single sexual act I also find it hard to acknowledge 1% per vaginal sexual act being a realistic figure - I have no problem in being told the truth about my situation, but felt that due to it being a private clinic they just wanted my money and that was that....

Five,

Test results at 4-6 weeks are not considered conclusive. Some rare cases take up to 12-13 weeks to test positive. We work with this window to period so that everyone is included. HIV/AIDS is so serious 99% is just not good enough.

In fact don't worry about numbers like 99% or the like. With reference to individual cases, such as yours they're meaningless. I fully expect (as does your doctor) that you will test negative at the 12 week mark.

Indeed rather than fretting about percentages and window periods, you might want to think about the sorts of behaviours that lead you to situations like this one. Drinking and casual sex are not a good mix, as you have learned.

Regards,

MtD

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2006, 07:22:56 PM »
Thanks for your encouraging words I am of the same opinion that looking at the 1% is meaningless, hope you do not mind answering a few other questions niggling in my mind?

1) Would you advise protected sex with my partner until this point?

2) Do you think I should skip the 10 week test and just re-scheulde at 12 week, i.e. does 10 weeks decrease my chances even further?

3) I read today that in America some experts belive 6 months to be the only real conclusive negative result, I really do not think I could go on with the stress and anxiety I am feeling for 6 months.

Anyway I am off to try and catch some zzzzz's its 12.20am in England and tomorrow I go on holiday for two weeks to France, although I fear it may not be the most enjoyable time of my life.

best regards, Five.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2006, 08:09:01 PM »
1) Would you advise protected sex with my partner until this point?

Yes. Even though I am confident that you will test negative at 12 weeks, I can't be 100% sure and neither can you. HIV/AIDS is nothing to guess about.

2) Do you think I should skip the 10 week test and just re-scheulde at 12 week, i.e. does 10 weeks decrease my chances even further?

Again yes. The window period in the UK is 12 weeks and that's when you should test. A 10 week negative is all but conclusive, but we need to stick with the scientifically established window period.

3) I read today that in America some experts belive 6 months to be the only real conclusive negative result, I really do not think I could go on with the stress and anxiety I am feeling for 6 months.

Such experts are incorrect. You don't have to wait 6 months. Even the extraordinarily conservative American Centres for Disease Control (CDC) state the window period is 13 weeks. In the UK, Australia and other nations it's 12 weeks. Since you're testing in the UK go with the window period there.

Anyway I am off to try and catch some zzzzz's its 12.20am in England and tomorrow I go on holiday for two weeks to France, although I fear it may not be the most enjoyable time of my life.


Enjoy your holiday and don't fret too much.

Regards,

MtD

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2006, 02:59:18 AM »
MTD:

Forgot to ask are any of my symtoms ARS related?

Thanks, Five.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2006, 03:17:37 AM »
Five,

You need to understand that symptoms mean bugger all when it comes to diagnosing HIV. The symptoms of ARS are really non-specific. I mean just about anything can cause a fever, right?

What is important when we discuss HIV transmission is risk behaviours and anti-body testing. If you've engaged in a behaviour which has been shown to transmit HIV, then you should test. Such behaviours are:

Unprotected anal sex;
Unprotected vaginal sex;
Sharing contaminated injecting equipment.

You seem like a fairly sensible sort of chap, so take my advice and don't go for a stroll down Symptom Street. That way madness lies. Go and enjoy your holiday.

Regards,

MtD

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2006, 05:59:31 AM »
five,

I think your doctor sounds like he is very much clued up on hiv testing. With the type of tests you have had done, you are more likely to play for England yourself in the next World Cup and score a hat trick in every single game you play than you are to go on to test positive after this incident.

I've never seen someone test negative at six weeks and go on to test positive either, just like your doctor.

However, until the official window period here in the UK changes, you would be wise to go to your local GUM clinic and test one more time at twelve weeks - just so there are no lingering doubts in your mind. Don't bother going private, the local GUM will test for free and confidentially too.

While you're here, there are a few more things I want to make sure you are aware of. You need to protect yourself against hiv no matter who you are with or where you are. Hiv is on the rise in the heterosexual community in the UK - I should know, I'm one of the statistics. I live on the Isle of Man and never thought I needed to worry about hiv and I was dead wrong.

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL STIs together. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with a sexually transmitted infection.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results. Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Use condoms and avoid hiv infection - no matter who you are with. It really is that simple!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2006, 06:16:05 AM »
Ann:

Firstly thanks for your response, really appreciated. The service you guys provide here is better than in most clinics - the amount of conflicting information out there from counsellors / GP's is truly extraordinary. It seems that the real experts are the people who have contracted HIV, so maybe there is a career path out there for you?

You state you have never seen someone test positive after six weeks, do you work in a clinic, or is it just something you have not heard of?

On the contrary do you know of people who have tested positive in six weeks? I asked my Dr. but he said he could not disclose this information, which I did find strange as he was happy to tell me the opposite...

best regards, Five.


Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2006, 06:24:24 AM »
Five,

I mean that in the five+ years I've been a member of these forums, I've never seen someone in this section of the forum test negative at six weeks and go on to test positive after. And yes, we have had people through here who did have a risk who tested positive at or before six weeks. The people who write in to this forum and test positive are in the minority. Hiv is a fragile, difficult to transmit virus, but that is no reason to not protect yourself because difficult does not mean impossible.

Too many people don't test after unprotected intercoure and I'd say the majority of people discover their hiv status only after they've been positive for a while. This is one of the reasons why routine screening is so important. Not only can the person who does test positive get the medical attention they need, but it will also cut down on onward transmissions. Most people who test positive ensure their virus stops with them.

Keep using those condoms, no matter if you're with a sex worker or the girl next door, and you'll be just fine.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2006, 06:29:44 AM »
Thanks Ann, sorry to ask such direct questions, but feel it may benefit other users to know this information as well as myself.

Sorry also wanted to say I have read all the information you have directed me towards and 100% agree. Problem I am finding is a lot of the people who post here cannot see past their pending results - most are likely to put themselves back in this situation in several months time, or maybe even sooner!

Instead they should be concentrating on what they can do in the future to avoid this happening again. For me I have stopped drinking heavily and cut down on the amount I smoke - I know that when I drink heavily I have a tendancy to act in a different manner and often experience memory loss of the night before - I have asked myself if I ever want to go through this worry again and the answer is simple - NO.

I am hoping my negative test at 12 weeks will be the icing on the cake, sorry for the pun but I always believe a positive can come out of a negative situation.

regards, Five.

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2006, 06:35:12 AM »
Five,

It's good to hear that you've learned so much from this incident. The best thanks you can give to us for the service we provide here is to educate your mates on the importance of condom use and hiv prevention. Make sure your family members know - especially any teens or young adults. Far too many heterosexuals think they don't need to worry about hiv and it just isn't true.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2006, 09:37:34 AM »
Ann:

I did not see the playing for England comment earlier, (very amusing) just wondered did you base this on my experience / the tests I have had, or a combination of both?

regards, Five.

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2006, 10:52:08 AM »
Five,

I based my answer on your experience, plus the timing and types of test used. Also, the vast majority of people who have actually been infected will seroconvert and test positive by six weeks, with the average time to seroconversion being only 22 days. Your last test was at nearly seven weeks and I do not expect the results to change.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2006, 04:44:42 PM »
Hi Ann:

Just returned from holidays and did not have the greatest time first few days were OK, but then I developed stiff neck / sore throat / white coated tongue and strange lines on the inside of my mouth, not ulcers, more like raised skin.

I have convinced myself that these must be ARS symptoms, despite (1) it being eight weeks since exposure and (2) numerous people on this forum stating symptoms are not an indicator of HIV.

I have not cancelled my 10 week test yet, do you think it is a waste of time as I think it might be the only way to ease my anxiety?

Before I went on holiday I felt at ease with myself and was planning on discussing what happened with my wife, I am now back in the state of running to the toilet every time I have eaten, (which in itself is proving difficult due to worry) and not sleeping.

Thanks in advance for your reply...

Offline RapidRod

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2006, 04:52:16 PM »
Symptoms or the lack of symptoms are NOT a way to diagnosis HIV infections or ARS. Only by being tested at 12 weeks in the UK will give you a conclusive test.

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2006, 05:10:03 PM »
Thanks for the reply RapidRod, do you agree with the sentiments expressed by Ann earlier in this thread that my risk is very low and with the tests I have taken to date my anxiety levels are unwarranted?

Offline Morgan

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2006, 06:43:12 PM »
Five,

Yes.  Listen to Ann.  She's the Man! (so to speak).  :D  You can take her advice to the bank.

Morgan
Morgan Landers

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2006, 06:47:45 PM »
Damn, I wish I could take it to the bank too, I'm a bit skint!
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Morgan

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2006, 06:52:31 PM »
If it only paid by the answer.... 8)
Morgan Landers

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2006, 07:34:01 PM »
Sorry guys to question your advice, anxiety is such a crazy state of mind, all logic seems to go out of the window...as an accountant by trade you would think I would be able to accept the laws of probability?

I feel like I have already abused the service you provide here, I will post results of my ten week test for other users to reference, until then promise no other anxiety driven questions, (well until 12 week test anyway).

Apologies again, Five.

P.S. Just wondering is there anything I could do to help with the great work you guys provide, I have found it truly inspirational !!

Offline Morgan

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2006, 07:40:16 PM »
Five,

Yes.  Make a donation to your local ASO.  They are always in need of funding.

Morgan
Morgan Landers

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2006, 08:05:29 PM »
five,

Giving money is good, but making sure your friends and loved ones are clued up on hiv facts is priceless. For me, the best thank you anyone can give us is to carry on our work in your own social circles and families. Too many teens (and adults!) aren't being taught how to protect themselves against hiv - abstinence only works if they're never tempted. Condoms work regardless.

Knowledge is power and knowing how to protect yourself against hiv infection makes for powerful, healthy people. Spread the word.

Use condoms and avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple.

Ann
« Last Edit: August 21, 2006, 08:07:13 PM by Ann »
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2006, 11:59:17 AM »
Anyone?

I came aross an article today stating that HIV-1 subset O often produced false negatives and most HIV tests could not detect this subset, does anyone know anything about this?

Reason I ask is that my exposure was with a women originating from Cameroon, (now living in Europe) which I believe is the only region this subset has been found.

In my previous post promised no more anxiety driven questions, but feel this warrants a post...


Offline jkinatl2

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2006, 12:05:49 PM »
The information in that article (I am familiar with it) is several years out of date. Current ELISA tests are considered reliable, even concerning subtypes like O and N which have only been found in a handful of people globally.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2006, 12:10:42 PM »
Thanks jkinatl2, couple of other quick questions:

1) I take it a fourth generation HIV DUO combo test is considered as current?

2) if the answer to the the above is YES, when you say reliable do you mean the test would pick up these subtypes?

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2006, 12:17:45 PM »
Actually, ANY generation of test is considered current and definitive at 13 weeks. The generations of tests are NOT on a sliding scale of reliability. Such a thing would be highly unethical. At this point, the tests are simply being tweaked to slowly but surely lower that testing window. But financial considerations dictate that first gen testing remains prominent, especially in underdeveloped places.

And yes, testing picks up these subtypes.

But holy cow, given that we have identified less than two hundred people who carry subtype O among the millions and millions of confirmed HIV cases, any single human's chances of getting infected wityh that subtype, even if they live in Cameroon and consider themselves an unproteced sex party favor, is so vanishingly small as to boggle the mind.

seriously. Intellectually, at this point you are aware you are grasping at straws. Communicating that to your emotional center, in my opinion, should be your next challenge.



"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2006, 02:36:03 PM »
Ann:

I know you have a lot of experience with UK tests, can you confirm that they test for subtype O a local aids helpline in UK did not think they do due to a rare chance of anyone having contact with this subtype?

This is more than worrying in my situation which was with a woman from Africa, (Cameroon) as you know from my previous posts...I am starting to doubt the validaity of any of the tests I have had.

Offline fred

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2006, 02:09:11 AM »
If you tested at freedomhealth you would have had the COBAS COMBI assay conducted at The Doctors Laboratory in London.

Sean at freedomhealth sent me this, from the assays datasheet, in response to a question about the assays sensitivity;

1) Does the data sheet explicitly state 99.8% sensitivity at 28 days ?

A) It reads "Of 1509 samples from HIV infected patients in different stages of the disease and infected with HIV-group M, O and HIV-2, 1509  were found to be repeatedly reactive. The sensitivity ...in this study was 100%. The lower confidence limit was 99.8%

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2006, 05:26:23 AM »
five,

You can bet that the tests used in the UK pick up any and every strain of hiv going - including the ones from Africa. We have a huge amount of African immigrants here in the UK.

Here's something else to consider - the obscure strains are more difficult to transmit. That's why they remain obscure.

Trust your test. And STOP looking up studies on the internet unless you make certain they are UP TO DATE and not something old and discredited -  and that you fully understand how to read and evaluate scientific studies.

Ann


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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2006, 06:32:01 AM »
Thanks Ann, (+ Fred)

I have just returned from my 10 week test and get my results @ 4.00pm, (UK time today) I will update my thread later this evening for reference.

It was my councilor who suggested this test due to me being out of the country for a few weeks, so this is what she called my penultimate test and only reason she has agreed to do it was due to anxiety - she has said if it comes back positvie today it will be a first, we shall wait and see...


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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2006, 04:30:12 PM »
Unforunately there was a problem today at the GUM clinic and no blood tests could be processed, I need to go back tomorrow to collect my results - will post then...

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2006, 01:11:04 PM »
Ann / other experts:

I got my latest test result today, again negative for HIV I and HIV II plus Antigen P24 not detected - this test was at nine weeks five days, (I know you are going to tell me to re-test at 12 weeks) but just wanted to know if this would decrease my chances even further than playing for England in the next World Cup?

At the GUM clinic my counsellor told me I could move on with my life and the 12 week test was only needed so that I could have unprotected sex with my wife with a 0% chance of passing on an infection if I had one; must admit this statement has kind of worried me...

Do you have any comments?


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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2006, 02:26:50 PM »
five,

The GUM counselor was practicing the fine art of CYA (cover your ass) with perhaps a dash of scare-tactic thrown in to ensure your return at twelve weeks.  The official window period here in the UK is twelve weeks.

As you were hazy about all the details and you believe there was a chance of unprotected intercourse, then you should test for closure. Am I expecting the result to change? No. Not at all. I'm sure you can appreciate that we also stick by official window periods.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2006, 02:34:26 PM »
Ann is, not that she needs like likes of ME to say it, spot-on, as always.

The fine art of CYA is something that always make me sorta cross my eyes and bite my tongue. usually in that order.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2006, 03:51:51 PM »
Thanks guys, never looked at it that way, at the end of the day she has a job to do !!

Ann would you consider it prudent to still use the World Cup comment you made earlier, (in light of your last post) to be honest its been kind of a message I have been telling myself everytime I feel anxious, i.e. I tell myself I have little to no chance of playing for England - so my HIV status is similar...

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2006, 04:09:35 PM »
Five,

You've got more chance of scoring a hat-trick in the World Cup.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2006, 07:32:30 PM »
Thanks Ann although it would be a dream to score a hatrick in the next World Cup, I think I can live without it....

best regards, Five.

P.S. Just realised my timing was slightly out my test today was actually nine weeks and one day - presume this is irrelevant anyway?

Have a great Bank Holiday Weekend !!

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2006, 03:09:56 PM »
Ann:

Does my inaccurate post earlier change your previous comments in anyway, i.e. my last test was at nine weeks, NOT nine weeks five days since the EXACT date of my exposure as I had previously posted.

Thanks, Five.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2006, 03:28:19 PM by fivecantonas »

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #40 on: August 28, 2006, 04:00:40 AM »
Five,

It does not change a thing I've said so far.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2006, 07:32:13 AM »
Hi Ann / anyone:

An update to my exposure;

I have started to develop a line of small pimples, (not sure if they are blisters) around the bottom of the head of my penis - they pretty much go all the way around, local GUM clinic suspect herpes, but I am awaiting results and they could not be conclusive either way at this point.

If they come back positive does this increase my chances of HIV infection - I know prior to this experience I did not have hepres and have read that ant STD largely increases the transmission risk !

Leading on from the above does this make any difference to my nine week test?

Thanks in advance...

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2006, 07:51:24 AM »
Five,

Herpes would only increase your risk if you had an outbreak at a time when you had unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse. A herpes diagnosis will NOT change a thing about an hiv test taken at any time.

Please try to keep in mind that you only remember having protected intercourse during your encounter. The idea that you also had unprotected is pure speculation on your part.

I'm fully expecting you to continue testing negative.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2006, 07:56:20 AM »
All but the very smallest number of those who are going to seroconvert will do so within 4-6 weeks after an exposure to the HIV virus. The average time to seroconversion is 22 days.

So with that 9 week negative in hand, like Ann I too expect you to continue to test negative, the possibility of herpes notwithstanding. And as Ann has reminded you, you're not even certain you had unprotected intercourse!

Your head has been working overtime about this incident, mixing the issue of it having been an African sex worker and now a herpes possibility to scare you some more. Despite that your test result points with no little certainty towards your continuing to test negative. Guilt is a whole other matter and can be a potent factor in feeding fears and anxiety. You're a dog like the rest of us and you went straying. You can't undo that. So see it clearly, take a breath and let it go.

I expect you will get another negative test result shortly and then hopefully you will be wise enough to get on with your life.

Cheers,  
Andy Velez

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2006, 08:05:49 AM »
Thanks for the quick reply guys, (as ever)

1) Can I have caught herpes from receiving unprotected oral sex?

2) If YES to the above am I likely to have infected my wife through her giving me oral sex?
« Last Edit: August 29, 2006, 08:07:58 AM by fivecantonas »

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #45 on: August 29, 2006, 08:13:47 AM »
Five,

Herpes can be a puzzle. The thing is, a person can harbour the herpes virus for years and never have an outbreak. Then, along comes some stress or a bout of 'flu and whammo, you suddenly get an outbreak. (This is why, when herpes appears on the lips, they are known as cold sores. A cold or 'flu can bring on an outbreak.)

You'll probably never know when or how you got herpes. Although it can be possible, as long as your wife has not gone down on you while you had an active outbreak, then you most likely have not passed it on to her.

And just so you know, herpes is VERY contagious. If you or anyone in your household has an outbreak, it's best to not share towels during this time. This goes for oral herpes or genital herpes, and you can also spread it around to different areas of your own body. Keep it clean and dry and don't touch. If you use acyclovir cream on the blisters, make sure you wash your hands afterwards.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #46 on: August 29, 2006, 08:16:48 AM »
And by the way Five,

Although herpes is very contagious, it is totally possible to keep it to yourself. I've had it since I was nineteen (25 years) and I've never transmitted it to anyone. Follow basic hygiene rules and you'll be fine.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #47 on: August 29, 2006, 08:44:18 AM »
Ann:

Is there a chance that this line of pimples / blisters could not be associated to herpes? To be honest they have been there for several days and do not appear to be going any bigger or bursting, very confusing.

Thanks, Five.

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #48 on: August 29, 2006, 08:51:44 AM »
Five,

You know I can't diagnose you! I will say this though - if they feel kinda tingly/itchy, it's probably herpes. They can take a while to break open sometimes without necessarily getting bigger and when they do, they usually hurt like hell, especially if touched or rubbed by fabric. But saying all that, it could be anything. If you get to a doc asap when they do break open, the area can be swabbed and a diagnosis reached.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #49 on: August 29, 2006, 08:56:11 AM »
And another by the way... (I'm having one of those days...)

Herpes usually looks much more like a blister than a pimple. The fluid inside is clear and the outer edge of the blister is usually red. If what you are seeing looks more like a pimple/whitehead, chances are it's not herpes at all but blocked pores. Check back with your doc.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #50 on: August 29, 2006, 09:20:40 AM »
I have made another appointment at local GUM clinic, (next week) I examined myself this morning and from what I can see they look more like blisters, must be around x50 in a line all around penis head...A VERY WORRIED FIVE...

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #51 on: August 29, 2006, 09:24:22 AM »
Forgot to add they are very small, i.e. pin head size...

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #52 on: August 29, 2006, 09:56:25 AM »
Ann / anyone who knows of this condition?

I called back my GUM clinic as I realised I did not give the all the details on my first call, i.e. more than x50 of these small cyst like pimples in a two / three ringed line around the head of my penis, (between shaft and tip) and they have said much more likely to be "pearly penile papules" now I am more than confused? (I am still keeping the test next Monday to make sure). Nurse said it would be a horrendous case of herpes to have so many blisters and not very likely.

Is this an STD or something anyone has heard of? I am sure this post may be of use to other forum users if they have similar symptoms...

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #53 on: August 29, 2006, 11:18:11 AM »
Five,

Look mate, I'm sure you know how to use a search engine as well as I do. Don't you think if it were an STD, the nurse would have said? None of this has anything to do with hiv anyway.

The bottom line as far as this forum is concerned is that you are unlikely going to test anything other than hiv negative when you get your conclusive result. Until then, your time would be better spent doing something constructive and interesting, rather than inspecting your penis every chance you get. OK?

Now go do something that doesn't involve the computer or hiv internet sites.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #54 on: September 04, 2006, 10:45:02 AM »
Quick update to my thread, second set of STD clinic tests came back today all NEGATIVE, (this is at ten weeks post exposure) - my conclusive HIV test has been booked for the 18th September I will give a final update then...

Ann thanks for all your advice and support to date, (also the other experts who have posted on my thread)


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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #55 on: September 04, 2006, 12:01:54 PM »
No surprise with that happy test result. I certainly expect more of the same when you do the 13 week test.

Cheers,
Andy Velez

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #56 on: September 05, 2006, 06:04:26 AM »
Andy:

I read someones thread, (realise this is not supposed to be common practice) that claims to have been infected by unprotected oral, as I 100% know I received unprtoected oral from a sex worker should I re-evaluate my risk?

Thanks in advance, Five.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #57 on: September 05, 2006, 06:47:19 AM »
You don't need to re-evaluate your risk, no matter what is said in other forums.

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #58 on: September 06, 2006, 05:13:42 AM »
Experts?

If you are familiar with my thread you will know I have a "conclusive test" scheduled at 12 weeks post exposure, like most WW I have done my own research as well and have become confused regarding the window period - the day after my final test I go on holiday and I am hoping this is the start to a new chapter in my life.

In the two posts below one from the CDC and one from the "Welcome Thread" the percentage figures do not state 100% conclusively at the three month stage.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/qa9.htm, (97% in three months)
http://www.aidsmeds.com/lessons/HIVtests.htm, (99% in three months)

Can anyone advise? 3 out of a 100 and 1 out of a 100 is not exactly conclusive I am now thinking maybe I should wait for another couple of months and re-schedule a test then?

Thanks, Five.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2006, 05:18:39 AM by fivecantonas »

Offline fred

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #59 on: September 06, 2006, 05:39:24 AM »
Sent you a PM

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #60 on: September 06, 2006, 05:52:51 AM »
Fred,

Please tell me you're not giving advice by PM . . .

MtD

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #61 on: September 06, 2006, 06:06:14 AM »
Matt,

No not really advice.... I just said that...

if you guys didn't believe in three months you wouldn't use it as guidance and neither would;

the Terence Higgins Trust
the National Health Service
the British Association For Sexual Health & HIV

And if the guideline were found to be flawed it would have been highighted by now, given that this has been the guideline for the past 10 years in the UK and has not been found wanting.

Both Five & I are in the UK

It's not advice, it's support.

I am hardly equipped to advise...I can't even advise myself  :-\
« Last Edit: September 06, 2006, 06:11:57 AM by fred »

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #62 on: September 06, 2006, 06:16:04 AM »
That's cool Fred. It's generally better that advice/support is given publicly. That way we can be sure everyone's singing off the same page. ;)

MtD

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #63 on: September 06, 2006, 06:17:08 AM »
OK.

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #64 on: September 07, 2006, 05:43:56 AM »
Matty:

Do you support these statements?

Only reason I ask is that I get an 11 week result today and counselor has told me if its negative I can cancel my twelve week test in light of four tests now @ 4 / 7 / 9 / 11 weeks all testing for HIVI/HIVII/P24 Antigen after a single exposure with an unknown status sex worker.

Infact he has said I can look forward to unprotected sex again with my wife this evening !!

regards, Five.

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #65 on: September 07, 2006, 07:15:57 AM »
Five,

I support your doctor's statements and I'm quite sure Matty does too.

You need to keep in mind that you only remember protected intercourse. You're only thinking there MIGHT have been unprotected later on in your evening. To be honest, I really doubt the woman would have allowed this to happen. After all, she (as the receptive partner) would be MUCH more at risk than you during unprotected intercourse. I really think you've been worrying yourself over a no-risk incident.

It's time to accept that you did not become infected with hiv.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #66 on: September 07, 2006, 08:36:55 AM »
As Ann says, I am in complete agreement with your doctor Five.

MtD
(Who has no doubt Five's doctor will be relieved to hear it) ;D

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #67 on: September 07, 2006, 11:55:41 AM »
Ann / Matty:

Firstly thanks for all your support to date, (I donated 100 to my local AIDS centre today - Body Postive who I know do an excellent job of supporting people with HIV - volunteers like yourselves - they have also helped me during this stressful time).

I will of course take all your advice and share it with my friends as I think so many people are still mis-educated on HIV + STD transmission.

Now on to my case:

Just collected my results, 11 WEEK HIVI/HIVII/P24 ANTIGEN TEST.....NEGATIVE !! Doctor has kept me penciled in for the 18th, (which would be 12 WEEKS three days since my risk) but he has asked I give it some thought as others would benefit from my appointment and they are very stretched at the moment.

Considering my exposure and four 4th Gen tests to date:

1) Do you think I can take this current test as 100%, or would you keep the appointment on the 18th September?
2) If YES to the above is it safe to have unprotected sex with my wife again?

best regards, Five.





Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #68 on: September 07, 2006, 12:37:30 PM »
Five,

Yes (you're negative) and yes!

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #69 on: September 08, 2006, 04:30:59 AM »
Ann / Experts:

I made a pact that once I got past 11 weeks I would go the doctors and explain my symptoms to make sure I had no other illness that was causing my sore throat, stiff neck, white tongue etc. Looks like I have a viral infection and have been prescribed one week course of antibiotics to clear it up...

Would a viral infection delay a positive result ?
Can I still be 100% certain with my negative result - unfortunately GP was not sure !

Thanks, Five.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2006, 04:34:06 AM by fivecantonas »

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #70 on: September 08, 2006, 04:55:01 AM »
Five,

A viral infection will not delay seroconversion.

Antibiotics do absolutely nothing for a viral infection and if you infection IS viral, you're wasting your time taking them. Antibiotics only work on bacterial infections.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #71 on: September 08, 2006, 08:56:03 AM »
Thanks Ann, doc said I may have some bacterial infection, so anti-biotics where just to make sure this would clear up if there was...

To be honest these days I think its par for the course, weeks worth of AB's and on your way !

Anyway either way all I wanted to know was that my 11 week negative can be accepted regardless of other infections.

Held off on the unportected sex with the misses last night - I think I need a few days to let my last results sink in.

Cheers, Five.





Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #72 on: September 10, 2006, 05:47:43 AM »
Ann:

I have not plucked up the courage to cancel my 12 week test and need to decide tomorrow.....do you see any point in keeping the appointment?

Its just that my last test was at 75 days and I know that the official window period is 12 weeks in UK, (84 days). Is this more of a safety net or is there still a possibility that I could test positive if I go for the test at 84 days?

Thanks, Five.

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #73 on: September 10, 2006, 05:54:59 AM »
five,

You only need that twelve week test if it is the only way you can let this thing go.

You don't have hiv.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #74 on: September 10, 2006, 02:09:12 PM »
Ann:

As always thanks for taking the time to ease an anxiety driven soul, (I do realise that this is not the purpose of this forum). This was some further advice I received recently, do you agree with the principal?

I suspect that one of the things worrying you is that you believe one of the following;

a) your body is not producing any antibodies
b) your body is not producing sufficient antibodies to detect on a test

You do realise don't you that the 4th Gen test checks for P24 antigen as well and, that if your body was slow, or non-existent, in producing antibodies, the level of viral replication would be through the roof, which would mean massive amounts of p24 protein in the blood. So even though the Ab part of the test would be negative, the Ag part would be positive, particularly at 11 weeks !

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #75 on: September 11, 2006, 03:19:35 AM »
Can any of the experts help with this queston?

Thanks, Five.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #76 on: September 11, 2006, 03:56:02 AM »
Five,

This is getting silly. You don't have HIV, something that we've told you on numerous occasions. It's time for you to move on and get some help from a mental health professional with this stuff.

MtD

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #77 on: September 11, 2006, 05:26:42 AM »
Matty:

I appreciate your time and responses and I realise I may need to discuss this further with a mental health professional, but what confuses me is that I have been told I am negative @ 11 weeks, when window period here in UK is 12? Also from the start of my posts here all the experts have said you MUST confirm with a test at 12 weeks.

I think I will keep my 12 week test next week and post the results so all other readers can see the outcome.

regards, Five.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2006, 05:45:18 AM by fivecantonas »

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #78 on: September 11, 2006, 06:07:18 AM »
Five,

Fine, test at 12 weeks. An 11 week test is really a case of all but. The issue in this case is not the window period. It's that you don't have HIV. Therefore whether you test at 11, 12, or 3000 weeks the result will be the same.

Negative.

But don't take my word for it kid, allow me to quote Goderator Ann, to wit:

You don't have hiv.

I've been giving advice here for a while now and I've seen cases like yours before. You'll collect your 12 week negative and then you'll start fretting because in America "the window period is 13 weeks!" and you'll start wondering if you should test again.

And again, and again, and again.

Do yourself and everyone else a favour. See a mental health professional. Prove me wrong.

MtD

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #79 on: September 11, 2006, 07:45:19 AM »
Five,

Personally, I've never seen a poster in this forum who went on to test positive after having a negative result at six weeks. You've tested with state of the art tests, including the p24, and if you were infected, you would have tested positive by now.

You had protected intercourse. This is not a risk for hiv infection. The only unprotected intercourse you had with the sex worker is simply a product of your fevered imagination.

You do not have hiv. Test at twelve weeks if you need to for your own peace of mind to see that final negative result. Accept the results and then please, give your GUM clinic a break and stop wasting their resources. OK? You're hiv negative, really you are.

And by the way, you're earning yourself time-out points. Just sayin...

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #80 on: September 12, 2006, 03:07:09 PM »
Sorry Ann / MTD after all the help you have given me last thing I want to do is waste your time and get your back-up...

I do not have the courage to cancel my 12 week test, (despite your re-assurance) I will post the results for the other users - then I am done with testing and reading internet forums - WELL RESULT PENDING !

Thanks again, FIVE.  ;)

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #81 on: September 15, 2006, 11:28:10 AM »
Hi Ann:

I just got NEGATIVE 12 week result, (this test was rapid test for HIV I/II) I think I can finally put this exposure behind me...

regards, Five.

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #82 on: September 15, 2006, 11:47:43 AM »
No, really? You're joking! Whoda thunk it?

Five,

You are conclusively negative. Keep using those condoms and you will stay that way. Come back here and start questioning your negative results and I'll swim over to Old Blighty and kick some arse.

Now go play some footie or something - it's a beautiful day out and we won't have too many of those left this year.

Use condoms and avoid hiv infection. It REALLY is that simple!

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #83 on: September 15, 2006, 12:13:11 PM »

Thanks Ann, bl*ody nurse at the clinic told me to use condoms with my wife for the next three months though just to be sure !!

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #84 on: September 15, 2006, 07:39:15 PM »
Experts:

Is this woman for real telling me to use condoms with my wife for the next three months?

Thanks in advance, Five.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #85 on: September 15, 2006, 07:46:23 PM »
Now what did she post? Does it say anywhere for you to use a condom with your wife? What she said is, if you are still going to continue with cheating on your wife then make sure you use a condom.

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #86 on: September 15, 2006, 07:49:36 PM »
Rod:

You misunderstand I am talking about the nurse at the clinic, it was her who advised me to be safe with for my wife for the next three months and return for a FINAL test...I have never seen the same nurse / doctor twice and they al tell you diferent things, the only consistent information I have received is from this site.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #87 on: September 15, 2006, 07:52:25 PM »
How long you been here? What is the time frame of a conclusive test? I'm sure you know the answer. YOU'RE NEGATIVE ....PERIOD!!!!!!!!

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #88 on: September 16, 2006, 08:12:02 AM »
Ann:

I realise this post is likely to result in a time out, but might not be a bad thing for me anyway !!

Do you agree with Rod that this nurse has given me outdated information, I so want to throw away the boxes of condoms I have stacked up in our bedroom...

I never intend to cheat on my wife again so from your advice to me I do not need to be using them after this incident any longer?

regards, Five.

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #89 on: September 16, 2006, 08:28:49 AM »
Five,

Nurses are human too and sometimes they allow their own feelings to come into what they do and say in their job. I strongly suspect this is what happened here. There was no reason for her to say that other than these two possibilities: One, she is misinformed. Two, she wants to make you sweat because you cheated on your wife.

Take your pick.

Whatever the reason for her comment, there is no basis for it in scientific fact. You are hiv negative and therefore you cannot infect your wife. Just make sure you use condoms if you stray again.

You are hiv negative. It's time you moved on with your life.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #90 on: September 16, 2006, 03:15:57 PM »
Ann, (+ all the other experts who have been kind enough to give me the benefit of their advice)

I have decided enough is enough I need to except my negative status and the fact that the Window Period in the UK has been clearly defined as 12 weeks for the last ten years has to be taken into context.

Everyone here tells me my test is conclusive, so does my doctor and also the THT, (respected hotline in the UK).

I would like to apologise for my ridiculous anxiety and hope others can take solice from my thread?

If I do seroconvert at 6 months / 12 months then I am a first in the UK since new testing was introduced, and from what I now know I am sure that I really do have more chance of playing for England in the World Cup !! I also aim to prove Matty wrong by taking NO more tests !!

The fact that I am surfing this forum on a Saturday night while my wife is out with her friends is enough to tell me I need to move on...

If anyone has any final comments please feel free to post?

TTFN, Five.  ;)
« Last Edit: September 16, 2006, 03:17:30 PM by fivecantonas »

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #91 on: September 18, 2006, 01:41:57 PM »
** FOR ALL OTHER UK WW USING RAPID TESTS **

I received my 12 week NEGATIVE last week Friday 15th September but the clinic could not answer some of my questions relating to 'Rapid Testing' and sub-types - so they kindly requested the manufacturer to post me some details...

I received an information pack today from the Canadian Laboratory, (bio-lytical) who manufacture and supply all the Rapid Tests used in the UK, which details an independent report from the FDA stating that at 3 months the rapid test is considered as accurate as an ELISA test for detecting ALL HIVI sub-types, (including O) and HIVII.

"Although the test cannot differentiate between HIVI/HIVII its not important, if its reactive your positive, if its non-reactive your NEGATIVE"

"any positive test will however need to be followed up by standard ELISA testing"

These are not my personal opinions, and I hope the moderators do not mind me posting this information, but I found it good to know.

Hope this helps someone out there....

http://www.biolytical.com/

regards, Five.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2006, 03:29:38 PM by fivecantonas »

Offline RapidRod

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #92 on: September 18, 2006, 05:01:40 PM »
You said that if a positive test it needs to be confirmed by a standard ELISA test. I didn't see that at all. We aready confirm a positive ELISA test with a Western Blot test.

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #93 on: September 18, 2006, 05:47:11 PM »
Rod:

Hope I have not caused any confusion, main point I wanted to share with other readers was that these tests cover ALL sub-types and both HIV strains...

The documentation basically says that a positive test means that follow-up further blood tests are needed, but with a negative you are "good to go"

Thanks, Five.

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #94 on: September 18, 2006, 06:34:19 PM »
Five,

You are hiv negative. It's time for you to move on with your life.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #95 on: September 20, 2006, 01:04:28 PM »
Ann:

Turns out there is a slight twist in the tale, the guy who I went to the World Cup with confirmed to me today that I did have UNPROTECTED SEX on the night in question all be it brief, he claims he did not want to tell me until I was confirmed NEGATIVE - he thought he was doing me a favour as he knows what a stress head I am normally...as you can imagine we have had a bit of a fall out...

Does this change the validity of my results in any way, as I know some people often compare ACTUAL risk with results?

Should I test again in a few weeks to be well over the three month mark? When I phoned the GUM clinic today they said this does change things slightly and they have agreed to book me a test @ 15 weeks !

By the way I had first session of unprotected intercourse with my wife last night after convincing myself I was NEGATIVE !!

regards, Five - back to a ridiculous state of anxiety...
« Last Edit: September 20, 2006, 01:38:26 PM by fivecantonas »

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #96 on: September 20, 2006, 02:05:30 PM »
Five,

How on earth would this guy know? Sounds to me like someone is trying to wind you up.

Your three month test is still absolutely conclusive. Why wouldn't it be? Whoever told you that at the clinic needs to refresh their hiv testing knowledge.

You are hiv negative. Period. End of story.

You are headed for a time out if you continue to use this site to wring your hands over your conclusive hiv negative test result. Please consider yourself warned.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #97 on: September 23, 2006, 12:08:46 PM »
Ann:

I am on holiday in Malta and yesterday developed a really nasty rash on my side from my waist up to my armpit, maybe 10 - 20 red marks. I am so worried is there any chance whatsoever this could be the onset of ARS?

I have been having unprotected sex for several days with my wife and cannot get over the fact this might be the start of seroconversion illness.

Can you advise?

Thanks, Five.

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #98 on: September 23, 2006, 12:14:10 PM »
Five,

This is your absolute last time-out warning. You are hiv negative, conclusively so, no kidding. If you cannot accept your hiv negative status, then it's time to get some counseling over this hiv anxiety obsession of yours.

Your test results are conclusive. You ARE hiv negative.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #99 on: September 26, 2006, 06:24:57 AM »
Ann:

Thanks for the response, I appreciate I am testing your patience, but this rash has now progressed to both my legs and back and arms and I must have over 100 raised non-itchy bumps now on my body, I feel OK physically but mentally a mess.

Its not a case of not wanting to accept my negative status because I really want to, but this seems so co-incidental its making me put 2+2 together.

This morning my wife has woken up with the start of the same rash maybe 20 - 30 raised bumps, and here I am sneaking about MALTA to find an Internet Cafe....I keep trying to tell myself they must be bites or something but the local pharmacy even advised does not look like bites and the absence of itching would also strongly indicate against this...

Is there any chance whatsoever this could be start of ARS at 13 weeks post exposure?

regards, Five, (LOST IN MALTA)

Offline RapidRod

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #100 on: September 26, 2006, 06:31:48 AM »
Enough is enough, you are negative and it's time for you to move on down the road.

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #101 on: September 26, 2006, 06:45:34 AM »
Rod:

I could move on if my wife and I had not obtained this rash, (which has increased over the last two days) but to me its more than alarming...which I am sure you can understand?

regards, Five.

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #102 on: September 26, 2006, 06:49:33 AM »
Five,

Enough is enough already. You have reliably tested negative for hiv and this rash is nothing to do with hiv. Stop looking at everything through the lens of hiv. You don't have hiv.

I'm giving you that time out I warned you about. You will not be able to log in or post for four weeks, starting now. Do not create a new account to get around your time out, or you WILL be permanently banned.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline RapidRod

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #103 on: September 26, 2006, 06:52:24 AM »
After one hundred posts, I don't understand. You have more wrong than HIV and we just can't help you with it. You are negative. There is no more to discuss here. If you and your wife have a rash see a dermatologist. You won't get it cured here. We aren't that good, close but not quite.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #104 on: September 26, 2006, 07:10:07 AM »
Go to see your doctor about your rash. This is not an HIV situation. Ditto your wife. The rashes maybe related to each other or maybe not.

What is for sure is that it has nothing to do with HIV.

Are you listening?
Andy Velez

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #105 on: October 25, 2006, 05:40:41 AM »
To, all Experts who took the patience to reply to my postings, (and anyone else who has read my threads)

I have taken several positive steps since my time out, (which was definitely needed)

1. Admitted to my Mother and Father the whole incident, (I know they too have asked some questions of you)
2. Started to see a councillor, (diagnosed OCD, which I think I may have had for years)
3. Started and finished a six week course of anti-anxiety therapy, (unfortunately did include medication which had some side affects)
4. Admitted the whole incident to my wife, (we are working through this together and are planning to have a child ASAP)

I will not deny I tried everything to get my parents to pay for a private clinic to give me further testing, but they refused. My wife has all but forgiven me but we are going to the local GUM clinic tomorrow to clarify some questions she has.

We are both also taking one FINAL HIV test and collecting the results together. I know it will be NEGATIVE, but its kind of the only way to close this off now she knows and my therapist sees no wrong in what we are doing - I suspect the experts will think I am still mentally unstable?

I will post the NEGATIVE results that both myself and my wife will receive tomorrow, but STRESS we are not doing this out of my fear that I am HIV+. I now know and understand that SCIENTIFCALLY this is not possible.

To all the other worried wells, best advice I can give you after what I would nearly class as a mental breakdown, is only one person has the power to move on after such an incident - THATS YOU ! Its not easy to let go, but most things in life are never straight forward. All the medication and councilling in the world will not change that....

And before anyone asks YES I do still have some of the symptoms associated with ARS illness, but now understand they will resolve over time and its due to putting untold stress and anxiety on my body for over four months, or as my Dr. tells me 1/3 of a year - its quote a long time...

Good Luck to all, Simon, (no need to use five as a name to hide behind anymore)



« Last Edit: October 25, 2006, 05:53:40 AM by fivecantonas »

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #106 on: October 25, 2006, 07:34:08 AM »
Simon,

As long as you and your wife are having these tests done under the supervision of your therapist, I see no harm - as long as this allows you to finally put this all behind you.

The only thing that worries me about your post is the fact that you have decided to have a baby ASAP, as you put it. Having a baby is not the way to cure problems in your marriage. Having a newborn around the house is very stressful as is pregnancy itself - much of it good stress, but stress nonetheless. It would seem wiser to make sure your emotional issues are well in hand before you go adding more stress into the mix. I hope you discuss this with your therapist.

I don't expect to be seeing you around here again, except MAYBE to report your test results - but we already know they will both be negative.

Have a nice life...

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #107 on: October 25, 2006, 07:47:03 AM »
Ann:

Therapist will not be attending the clinic with us, but we BOTH go there straight after we get results tomorrow afternoon, know what you are saying about the baby scenario, but this has only been put on hold due to this incident - should not have used the terminology ASAP, our plans are to try in the New Year = New start and all that jazz.

Of-course there are times when I think about HIV and the night in question, but I can accept now they are irrational thoughts, just like when we all from time to time dream of winning the lottery.

Probably the worst thing to come out of this is my relationship with my best friend, its pretty much over due to the lies he span me through the time I waited to test NEGATIVE.

Oh should have mentioned I have been back at work for just over two weeks now and my relationship with my parents has never been better.

Thanks for the have a nice life comment.....YOU TO !!

best regards, Simon.

P.S. Results tomorrow will close this thread, (again on the advice from my therapist - I have to then print it out, read it once and we will shred it together - hope you do not mind - seems extreme, but she is a bit eccentric)

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #108 on: October 25, 2006, 07:55:45 AM »
Quote
Therapist will not be attending the clinic with us, but we BOTH go there straight after we get results tomorrow afternoon

Simon,

That's exactly what I meant by supervision, not that the therapist would attend the clinic with you.

I think your therapist's idea of shredding this thread is an excellent one. It can be amazing how much a simple - but symbolic - physical act like that can help bring closure to a situation. See if you can't take the shredded paper out into the car park and burn it as well. ;) As the advert says, "every little helps!"

I'll be glad when this thread is closed - I just might print, shred and burn too! :D

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #109 on: October 26, 2006, 06:41:23 PM »
Ann; all the other experts; + anyone who has followed my story

I want to give one last update in the hope it will help some others....

Its time for me to FINALLY move on, (and not before time) today I collected a NEGATIVE 4 month HIV test, (HIV1/HIV2/P24 4th Generation) unfortunately my wife chickened out at the last minute for her test, do I care = NO, did the nurse at the clinic care = NO!

Was I expecting the result to be anything other than NEGATIVE = NO, (well if I am being 100% truthful that pesky demon on my left shoulder was still hanging around but I kicked him into touch - please no-one think I am seeing things).

We also attended my final councilling session together, (hopefully anyway) this afternoon and took great pleasure in reading this thread together, laughing at my irrationality, realising that their are people out there who want to help others and also accepting in unison, that I am indeed HIV NEGATIVE!

We then printed out this mini novel, shredded it and placed it in the bin, my therapist says this is the well I was in and I am not going back there, if all this sounds crazy to anyone reading this, trust me I have thought the same and YES my therapist is one of those who makes you listen to whales mating and burns incense - but HEY IT WORKED - so who am I to criticise?

I have no more tablets to take and do not intend on seeking out a repeat perscription, my therapist says she has much more pressing cases than mine to deal with and I now realise my life needs to get back on track.

To all the other WW's I urge you all to take hold of this YOURSELF, only now do I realise how it must utterly P*SS the volunteers on this site off, who are HIV+ listening to us all moan about not believing we are HIV-, (something my wife pointed out to me the other day - it is SELFISH)

FINALLY at the risk of continually repeating myself I just want to say that I have been humbled by the work the people do on this site, (ESPECIALLY ANN) long may you continue to educate the ignorant and just plain stupid, (I refer to myself with this last statement)

Best Wishes to all, Simon.

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #110 on: October 26, 2006, 07:33:32 PM »
Simon,

Hopefully, you won't be back to read this post but just in case you do...

...I have a suggestion. Before you start on that baby, I think you owe your wife a holiday - even if it's just a romantic weekend in a swank hotel. You weren't really there with her in Malta - you were here on this forum. She deserves some quality time (and waiting on hand and foot wouldn't go amiss) with you after all this.

Have a good one. Bye!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #111 on: October 30, 2006, 04:15:32 AM »
Ann:

You are right, money is a bit tight at the moment, but rest assured in the coming months it will be top of my priority list !

Just so you are aware other reason I had the four month test was to ease my fears regarding the rash I had - the test being four weeks after the rash appeared - this was the final nail in the coffin so to speak and rightly or wrongly was something I just had to do.

Thanks again for all your help, Simon.


Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #112 on: November 02, 2006, 04:55:56 PM »
Ann + other experts:

I hope you do not mind me posting this information, (at the very minimum at least its in my thread  :) ) but feel it may help a lot of others in the UK. In my almost hallucinogenic anxious days I sent an e-mail and left several voice-mails for the testing laboratory that the NHS use in the North West of England.

Well today, (three weeks later) they called me back...

Anyway what I was told was something very new to me, maybe you guys are not aware of this either?

The technician told me that since 2001 it has been NHS preferred standard that ALL serum is tested using THREE different assays and a RAPID TEST KIT, this certainly applies to all North West GUM clinics and London based clinics, for the rest he could not be certain, but would be surprised if they are any different.

As well as the Window Period to consider, he said this is the main reason they will only test you once at three months, i.e. the cost would be to high otherwise.

They make sure they use the Top x3 rated ASSAYS at any given time and regularly receive reviews from an independent research group, he also provided me this link as I discussed my rash with him, (only because he asked and was interested in my testing legacy) that gives a review of one of the ASSAYS they currently used, (the Abbott).

I discussed primary acute infection and recognising anti-bodies he said "trust me as long as there was a few days gap from on-set of symptoms if they where HIV related the Abbot would pick them up without any question and this test was reliable at detecting HIV AB pretty much at Day 0".   

http://www.pasa.doh.gov.uk/evaluation/docs/pathology/MHRA_03132.pdf

Other thing to be aware of is that "Private Clinics" do not have any of the above policies, they pay for one ASSAY to be used - end of...

Point is that when I told him my testing history he could not believe it, he said in theory my blood has probably been tested about x30 times. Each different test with THREE different ASSAYS. I said why is this, is one not good enough, he said not at all, its just belt and braces these days and it gives us even further assurance of the results we provide back to our clinics, all tests are rated at ~99.5% accurate, so using three differrent kits on each serum pretty much gives us 100%.

By the way it was not some student I spoke to the gentleman was head of testing at Manchester MMRI and he only called me back due to me sounding so anxious on the phone - what a nice guy !

I suppose what I wanted to get across was: 1. Do not waste your money at private clinics / 2. Trust your test results the NHS are not using in house testing labs ran by students.

TTFN, Simon.


« Last Edit: November 02, 2006, 05:20:33 PM by fivecantonas »

Offline fivecantonas

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #113 on: November 11, 2006, 10:16:53 AM »
Experts:

I am really sorry to be still hanging around here and have to admit the past few weeks have been great for me, I have been having regular sex with my partner again I am back at work and I thought I had moved on from this incident, until yesterday !

I have had the flu for a couple of weeks, (which I have put down to the time of year and change in seasons) due to not being able to shift it I went to my GP yesterday, (he knows my full story and was the one who referred me to Physcologist and prescribed six week course of anti-depressants).

He told me to take a couple of days of work and rest, but the other advice he gave me was more than alarming, he said in light of my recent scare and that it also came to light that there was unprotected sex on the night in question, (which my GP did not know until yesterday) it would do no harm to have a repeat HIV test at the six month point to rule out all these other ailments.

I know the standard response is going to be "you are conclusively negative" and I do not intend to go back down the road of anxiety driven questions, but why would my GP be saying this now, after testing out to four months NEGATIVE, (in summary 4/6/8/10/12/14/18 weeks all 4th Gen. tests).

Thanks to whoever answers, Simon.


« Last Edit: November 11, 2006, 10:19:06 AM by fivecantonas »

Offline RapidRod

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #114 on: November 11, 2006, 10:45:41 AM »
You don't need another test period. You can test till the cows come home the results are not going to change.

Offline Ann

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Re: African Sex Worker, unprotected oral / possible vaginal ?
« Reply #115 on: November 11, 2006, 12:41:26 PM »
Simon,

Your GP obviously doesn't understand hiv testing and window periods. You are hiv negative. Period. End of story.

If you post again, you'll be getting a time out. I'm telling you now so you know what happened...

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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