Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
E-newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr MySpace
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
April 18, 2014, 05:33:15 AM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 620133
  • Total Topics: 46724
  • Online Today: 216
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: I sincerely hope I have not created a tragedy by infecting the person I love.  (Read 4178 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Rjane

  • Member
  • Posts: 154
some of you know my wife and I have been wanting to get pregnant. My wife is negative. After 8 months of my blood work showing undetectable, we tried, without condoms as per the Swiss Study, to get pregnant. The first time we tried was june 8th.

I got a cold and a sore throat a few weeks later and I think my wife caught it. Her glands swellled up for a day and then went back down. I was afraid that i infected her but after talking with a few of you, especially the ever-wodnerful Ann, I calmed down.

Early last week we tried to get pregnant again. Over the weekend my wife has been complaining of inexplicable tiredness. I thought I was mortified when she told me her glands swelled! Her complaints of being "utterly tired for no good reason," really scare the heck out of me.

If she has contracted HIV from me, well, I cant imagine that!. Everyone PLEASE cross your fingers for me and say your prayers.

Robert.


« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 07:35:42 AM by Rjane »

Offline Inchlingblue

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,119
  • Chad Ochocinco PETA Ad
Re: I sincerely hope I have not created a tragedy.
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2009, 05:47:42 PM »
Hopefully she is still negative but based on what you are describing, I highly recommend that in the future you proceed using sperm washing. Also, there is nothing wrong with adopting, there are so many children who need loving homes.

Wishing you all the best. Keep us posted.

Offline Rjane

  • Member
  • Posts: 154
Inchling
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2009, 05:52:28 PM »
Hopefully she is still negative but based on what you are describing, I highly recommend that in the future you proceed using sperm washing. Also, there is nothing wrong with adopting, there are so many children who need loving homes.

Wishing you all the best. Keep us posted.

It could all be coincidence, or not, but I am really nervous about this. Its probably my fears getting the best of me. The tiredness thing scares me though. When I was first exposed to HIV one of the main symptoms was an awful awful tiredness. How soon can we test for HIV?

Offline Cliff

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,645
Re: I sincerely hope I have not created a tragedy.
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2009, 05:59:30 PM »
Why are you so scared?  Doesn't she take HIV meds while you are trying to prevent transmission?  Are you confirmed undetectable?  I'm sure your doctor will be able to provide some guidance (calm your fears) for you during this difficult  period.

Offline Rjane

  • Member
  • Posts: 154
meds
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2009, 06:04:42 PM »
Why are you so scared?  Doesn't she take HIV meds while you are trying to prevent transmission?  Are you confirmed undetectable?  I'm sure your doctor will be able to provide some guidance (calm your fears) for you during this difficult  period.

no she didnt take meds while we tried.

Offline Cliff

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,645
Re: I sincerely hope I have not created a tragedy.
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2009, 06:10:20 PM »
oh, well I'm no expert in this area...so no more comment on the approach.  However if every little cold or swollen gland is causing you anxiety, then maybe you don't completely buy into this approach as being low (acceptable) risk.  A conversation with your doctor may be a good start. 

Offline sdguyloveslife

  • Member
  • Posts: 134
Re: I sincerely hope I have not created a tragedy.
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2009, 06:14:08 PM »
Hi Robert,

I'm so sorry to hear about your unfortunate circumstances with your wife.  I really hope that it's just a cold and a false alarm. 

When I got tested, I went to a facility that tests via Nucleic Acid Testing (NAT), which measures HIV RNA in your blood.  This method of testing allows you to test within 7 days of suspected exposure to HIV.  I had my results within 3 days of the blood draw.  Perhaps you can find a facility that offers this type of test in your area? 

The only caution that I'm sure you already know is that whether your wife tests using NAT tomorrow, or tests in 3 months via ELISA - while it may take some of the agony off the waiting, it doesn't change the outcome. 

I will keep you and your wife in my thoughts and prayers.  Please let us know how it all works out. 

Hang in there,
--Richard

Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

Offline Rjane

  • Member
  • Posts: 154
HI Richard
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2009, 06:17:21 PM »
Hi Robert,

I'm so sorry to hear about your unfortunate circumstances with your wife.  I really hope that it's just a cold and a false alarm.  

When I got tested, I went to a facility that tests via Nucleic Acid Testing (NAT), which measures HIV RNA in your blood.  This method of testing allows you to test within 7 days of suspected exposure to HIV.  I had my results within 3 days of the blood draw.  Perhaps you can find a facility that offers this type of test in your area?  

The only caution that I'm sure you already know is that whether your wife tests using NAT tomorrow, or tests in 3 months via ELISA - while it may take some of the agony off the waiting, it doesn't change the outcome.  

I will keep you and your wife in my thoughts and prayers.  Please let us know how it all works out.  

Hang in there,
--Richard



We live in a big citywhere there are a ton of places that can give you same day results.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 07:32:07 AM by Rjane »

Offline AndyArrow

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,196
Re: I sincerely hope I have not created a tragedy.
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2009, 06:18:49 PM »
This is really a subject that I know very little about but I just wanted you to know that I am thinking about you and your wife.  

I'll be sending positive thoughts your way and hope that both your wife stays negative and that you have a beautiful bundle of joy soon!

Hugs,
AA
It is not the arrival that matters.  It is the journey along the way. -- Michel Montaigne

Offline Rjane

  • Member
  • Posts: 154
Cliff
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2009, 06:20:00 PM »
oh, well I'm no expert in this area...so no more comment on the approach.  However if every little cold or swollen gland is causing you anxiety, then maybe you don't completely buy into this approach as being low (acceptable) risk.  A conversation with your doctor may be a good start. 

Cliff, I do believe the findings of the Swiss Study, I am and have always been a worry wart. I dont think its helpful to analyze what I may or may not buy into, that is not the issue. The Swiss study didnt say that there was no chance of transmission, just that it was very very rare that the negative person was infected during their studies. So if i did buy into the swiss study, which I did, it means that I could transmit the virus, but that there was a very slim chance.

Offline sdguyloveslife

  • Member
  • Posts: 134
Re: I sincerely hope I have not created a tragedy.
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2009, 06:32:38 PM »
I hope I'm not confusing you with the type of testing I'm talking about. 

I would imagine you can find a place that does this in the LA area, but I cannot promise that.  I live in San Diego and tested at UCSD which is one of the few places in the country that is even using this method of testing for HIV diagnostic purposes - and even at the University, there is one specific clinic that has a research grant to even offer this type of testing. 

Yes, I know that in LA there are plenty of testing facilities that offer same day results - or even 20 minute results - but those tests are typically measuring antibodies to HIV.  The Nucleic Acid Test (NAT) measures copies of HIV RNA (the genetic material/code inside of the actual virus).  Please realize that this is NOT a "standard" HIV test.  It's not commonly used (yet?) in HIV clinics, but it is a test commonly used by blood banks.  It is also very unlikely that you will be able to get "same day" results of this method of testing, even in LA. 

If you can't find a place in LA that does it and decide you want to take the ride to San Diego, PM me and I can give you the contact info for the research facility that is doing this type of test. 


Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

Offline Rjane

  • Member
  • Posts: 154
Thanks Sd
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2009, 07:03:07 PM »
I hope I'm not confusing you with the type of testing I'm talking about.  

I would imagine you can find a place that does this in the LA area, but I cannot promise that.  I live in San Diego and tested at UCSD which is one of the few places in the country that is even using this method of testing for HIV diagnostic purposes - and even at the University, there is one specific clinic that has a research grant to even offer this type of testing.  

Yes, I know that in LA there are plenty of testing facilities that offer same day results - or even 20 minute results - but those tests are typically measuring antibodies to HIV.  The Nucleic Acid Test (NAT) measures copies of HIV RNA (the genetic material/code inside of the actual virus).  Please realize that this is NOT a "standard" HIV test.  It's not commonly used (yet?) in HIV clinics, but it is a test commonly used by blood banks.  It is also very unlikely that you will be able to get "same day" results of this method of testing, even in LA.  

If you can't find a place in LA that does it and decide you want to take the ride to San Diego, PM me and I can give you the contact info for the research facility that is doing this type of test.  




We have a place in mind. I suppose we will go at some point this week.   


« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 07:32:43 AM by Rjane »

Offline Sheri

  • Member
  • Posts: 32
Rjane,

Is it possible that she's pregnant, and that could be the source of her extreme fatigue?

Offline sdguyloveslife

  • Member
  • Posts: 134
Re: Thanks Sd
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2009, 09:33:56 PM »
Its as if we are afraid of the possibilities.


Don't be afraid of the possibility that your wife is still HIV negative - because that's still a significant one too! 

Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong.

Online mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 10,720
  • red pill? or blue pill?
RE:  previous thread on pretty much the same topic - your anxiety about this unprotected sex:

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=27602.msg340578#msg340578

I don't get you.  You seemed to stubbornly insist on the safety of what you are doing in the above thread.  But also admitted your great anxiety.

Now again, the enormous anxiety.

My opinion, as you know, is what's the point of all this unnecessary drama if there are safer ways to do this?
Why not just wash the sperm? Or, why not just have your wife take HAART when you have the unprotected sex?

If you are really so sure of the safety of what you are doing, then go to a therapist or shrink and get some anti-anxiety medicine and chill out. 

You seem to be going in two opposite directions simultaneously.

Best of luck


“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Rjane

  • Member
  • Posts: 154
meech
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2009, 07:19:13 AM »
RE:  previous thread on pretty much the same topic - your anxiety about this unprotected sex:

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=27602.msg340578#msg340578

I don't get you.  You seemed to stubbornly insist on the safety of what you are doing in the above thread.  But also admitted your great anxiety.

Now again, the enormous anxiety.

My opinion, as you know, is what's the point of all this unnecessary drama if there are safer ways to do this?
Why not just wash the sperm? Or, why not just have your wife take HAART when you have the unprotected sex?

If you are really so sure of the safety of what you are doing, then go to a therapist or shrink and get some anti-anxiety medicine and chill out. 

You seem to be going in two opposite directions simultaneously.

Best of luck




thanks for responding. I appreciate your concern! :-)

Offline Rjane

  • Member
  • Posts: 154
Sheri
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2009, 07:21:40 AM »
Rjane,

Is it possible that she's pregnant, and that could be the source of her extreme fatigue?

I sure hope so, but the first time we tried was early June and she got her period later that month. Early June was her first exposure.

The latest exposure and attempt to get pregnant, because the fertile home testing kit said she was fertile,  was only last Monday, and she started feeling super tired only 4 days later. That makes me think that maybe the early June exposure may have led to.....

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,921
This all doesn't add up to me. If you're melting down in the bathroom and wondering how long you need to wait before testing your wife for HIV and are concerned you have infected her. Well, to be honest it doesn't sound like you're emotionally ready. Worrying about going off the deep end is probably not the best time to try and conceive.

Offline Rjane

  • Member
  • Posts: 154
Daschund
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2009, 07:25:17 AM »
This all doesn't add up to me. If you're melting down in the bathroom and wondering how long you need to wait before testing your wife for HIV and are concerned you have infected her. Well, to be honest it doesn't sound like you're emotionally ready. Worrying about going off the deep end is probably not the best time to try and conceive.

Thanks for your comments and your support! Much appreciated! :-)

My wife and I had a conversation about it yesterday, and I am doing much better. In the end, regardless of what happens, we have each other, our families and will be fine! We are financially stable, I am undetectable for 9 months with 1,000 t-cells and everything works to the good; i firmly believe that. Everyone has their moments, and yesterday I had mine. Having a rough moment doesnt disqualify a person from having a child! :-)
« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 07:33:55 AM by Rjane »

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 27,947
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
R,

"Inexplicable" tiredness can have hundreds of causes - including early pregnancy. Four days after a possible exposure is too soon to have symptoms of hiv infection, but not necessarily symptoms of pregnancy. Test for both and hope for the best. It's highly unlikely you've infected her - but possible you've impregnated her. Good luck.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Rjane

  • Member
  • Posts: 154
To Ann
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2009, 08:06:50 AM »
R,

"Inexplicable" tiredness can have hundreds of causes - including early pregnancy. Four days after a possible exposure is too soon to have symptoms of hiv infection, but not necessarily symptoms of pregnancy. Test for both and hope for the best. It's highly unlikely you've infected her - but possible you've impregnated her. Good luck.

Ann


Before I joined this forum I lurked for many years. During that time I have observed you moderate, inform, and assist. I have to tell you Ann, you have one of the most beautiful spirits I have ever encountered. You are an incredibly positive and uplifting person, and I appreciate your support. I pray all of your days are happy and joy-filled, and that you get back all the love you send out, and more!

Sincerely,

Robert, a person deeply indebted to you. :-)

Offline havetohavefaith

  • Member
  • Posts: 20
Hi Rjane,

Not sure if you remember but we are going through the same thing right now. I also have faith in the study, but still you cant help but have the "what if" thoughts in the back of your mind. I will continue to pray that your wife remains Negative and that she is Pregnant this month.

Last month was our first attempt as well , with negative result.


Wishing you all the best.

Keep us posted :)

~Julie

Husband diagnosed 3/30/08
on Atripla
 8/07/09 Vl undetectable/ CD4 304

Offline Rjane

  • Member
  • Posts: 154
thanks so much julie....and
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2009, 09:28:42 AM »
Hi Rjane,

Not sure if you remember but we are going through the same thing right now. I also have faith in the study, but still you cant help but have the "what if" thoughts in the back of your mind. I will continue to pray that your wife remains Negative and that she is Pregnant this month.

Last month was our first attempt as well , with negative result.


Wishing you all the best.

Keep us posted :)

~Julie



 Thanks for the reminder. Also, are you using PEP or PrEP? Who is + and who is -?

Offline havetohavefaith

  • Member
  • Posts: 20
He is + I'am the Negative one. We did not use pep last month, however we just moved 9 states away and will have access to new and I feel even better Dr.s than we had back in Mass, he has an apt coming up and we are going to ask about it.


Again good luck

~Julie
Husband diagnosed 3/30/08
on Atripla
 8/07/09 Vl undetectable/ CD4 304

Offline Inchlingblue

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,119
  • Chad Ochocinco PETA Ad
I came across an article relevant to this thread.

Increased risk of HIV transmission in serodiscordant couples wishing to conceive

LINK:

http://www.aidsmap.com/en/news/51FA51B5-E610-4E16-B19B-3A26B6CBA16B.asp

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 27,947
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
I came across an article relevant to this thread.

Increased risk of HIV transmission in serodiscordant couples wishing to conceive

LINK:

http://www.aidsmap.com/en/news/51FA51B5-E610-4E16-B19B-3A26B6CBA16B.asp

This study was conducted in Kenya and there is no data (as far as I can see) as to whether any, or how many, of the couples where transmission occured were on ART. I suspect that most of them were not on ART and I wish the article was more clear on this point.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Inchlingblue

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,119
  • Chad Ochocinco PETA Ad
This study was conducted in Kenya and there is no data (as far as I can see) as to whether any, or how many, of the couples where transmission occured were on ART. I suspect that most of them were not on ART and I wish the article was more clear on this point.

Ann

I totally agree. They don't seem to come out and say it either way whether these people were on ART (which is irksome), but I guess we can presume they weren't since the article goes on to say,

"Antiretroviral treatment may also reduce the risk of transmission when it is fully suppressive, and some clinics, particularly in Switzerland and the United Kingdom, have already begun counselling couples about how to time unprotected intercourse in order to maximise the potential for conception once undetectable viral load has been achieved on treatment.They may also offer antiretroviral drugs to the uninfected partner as pre- and post-exposure prophylaxis, an approach to managing conception that would be feasible and affordable in settings where it is possible to measure viral load and provide results promptly."

By posting a link to the article I wasn't implying an exact comparison to Rjane's situation (I should have made that clear); I'm just of the school of thought that knowledge is power and if I were in his shoes I'd want to read everything on the subject I could get my hands on in order to make the most informed decision.

It seems doctors in Switzerland and the UK are more willing to stick their necks out and advise on best times to conceive etc., I'm under the impression MDs in the US shy away from anything other than sperm washing, maybe for fear of lawsuits?
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 07:00:33 PM by Inchlingblue »

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 27,947
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
My overall impression was that the couples in the study weren't on ART, but I'd hate to make that assumption.

A couple (where the poz person was u/d for the required six months etc) could do their own research into techniques used in fertility - such as charts to figure out when the woman is the most fertile. I'm sure this is what is being referenced to above ("how to time unprotected intercourse"). I've already given Rjane links to that type of information, so they're don't have to have unprotected in a hit-and-miss style. Whether or not they've looked into this, I don't know as he never acknowledged the links. (as you say, knowledge is power)

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Rjane

  • Member
  • Posts: 154
to Ann and Inchling
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2009, 08:55:47 PM »
My overall impression was that the couples in the study weren't on ART, but I'd hate to make that assumption.

A couple (where the poz person was u/d for the required six months etc) could do their own research into techniques used in fertility - such as charts to figure out when the woman is the most fertile. I'm sure this is what is being referenced to above ("how to time unprotected intercourse"). I've already given Rjane links to that type of information, so they're don't have to have unprotected in a hit-and-miss style. Whether or not they've looked into this, I don't know as he never acknowledged the links. (as you say, knowledge is power)

Ann


I've seen all the info you posted prior to you posting the links. I was so busy doing more research that I didnt get a chance to answer this. Thanks for your help.

Offline dingowarrior

  • Member
  • Posts: 191
Rjane,
I know what your going threw ,as many know I have been thru the same. It took my wife and I 4 attempts to get pregnant. She always had a  HIV test after we tried. So you guys might want to consider that.
I know when we tried,and any little thing that she felt,whether it be a headache to a simple sneeze,I'd go into panic mode.However,try and not to let her see you get that way. Reassure her that all is OK,causing her any type of stress while you are trying to conceive is not good for her.Stress is the last thing you need her to go threw at a time your trying.
Keep your head up, and be strong and I'm sure all is OK.It may just be a coincidence after all..I 've said it many times,this disease many times does more to ones psyche than anything else.

dingowarrior

Offline hotpuppy

  • Member
  • Posts: 555
Re: HI Richard
« Reply #30 on: August 03, 2009, 01:35:46 AM »
We live in a big citywhere there are a ton of places that can give you same day results.

RNA testing is able to detect the virus much sooner then antibody testing.  I hope for both of you that the only thing you were able to transmit is sperm that helps you conceive of a child. 

Have faith in what you are doing.  It's probably stressful for both of you and that can make her tired.  In the event that the RNA test comes up positive you can react to it sooner and get on treatment right away.  A variety of studies have suggested that very early interdiction can pay profound dividends in fighting HIV.  The problem is that most of us don't find out until 90 days into the infection when the virus has established a foothold.

Best of luck and remember that there are no accidents, only experiences that make us stronger in the eyes of God.  You can face and overcome the challenges or have them bite you in the ass when you run from them.  You are very luck to have a wife who trusts you and who is willing to be there for you. 

It's probably not a bad idea to have a what if discussion and make sure that you know what you would both do if by chance she became infected.  It could be something like sex or it could be a blood exposure from something like you cutting yourself in the kitchen.  In either instance it is better to have a sane and rational conversation about the risks and consequences.  It clears the way to reaffirm your committment and love for each other.
Don't obsess over the wrong things.  Life isn't about your numbers, it isn't about this forum, it isn't about someone's opinion.  It's about getting out there and enjoying it.   I am a person with HIV - not the other way around.

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.