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Author Topic: Very Confused  (Read 5963 times)

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Offline aaronclark

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Very Confused
« on: July 05, 2009, 11:05:01 PM »
Hello guy!
   I am not yet 100% positive since my viral load and cd count are not yet out. My 2nd WB would be considered indeterminate in some countries and my third WB (I do not know which bands are present) is positive in some countries. So, I am waiting for my viral load. I had hep B and yellow fever vaccination in Feb, I am hoping that there's interaction there.
   i am so confused because of different info I have read.
   1. Can u get it from licking a guy's penis after he has cum and the cum is on his penis (so it is in touch with the environment)?
   2. If I have it, I got it in Brazil and most likely from anal intercourse. I think those people (4-some) gave it to me on purpose. I want to file a report, but I am not in Brazil any more. How do I go about doing this?
   3. I was told that even if I find a positive partner that I can get "reinfected" so I have to use a condom all the time, is this true?
   4. If I am positive, will I definately get AIDS if 1. I do not take meds? 2. if I take meds?
   5. When should I start taking meds?
Really hope to get your replies soon. Thanks.

Offline Ann

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Re: Very Confused
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2009, 04:38:43 AM »
Aaron,

No, you're not going to end up positive from licking some guy's penis. However, unprotected anal intercourse IS a risk.

If you've been confirmed as hiv positive, you should be posting in the "I Just Tested Poz" forum, not here. Your other concerns will not be addressed in this forum - please clarify.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline aaronclark

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Re: Very Confused
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2009, 06:48:35 AM »
But I might not be completely positive yet. I still have hope.
In Brazil, I am not positive, but in some countries, I am. This is because they have different requirements for the Western Blot results.
I hate this disease!!!!!!!

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Very Confused
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2009, 07:52:35 AM »
What part of you didn't have a risk is it you don't understand? Move on..

Offline aaronclark

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Re: Very Confused
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2009, 07:54:47 AM »
The doctors said I am positive and I had unprotected anal intercourse.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Very Confused
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2009, 07:57:24 AM »
Unless you have a positive antibody test and it's been confirmed then you are not positive.

Offline aaronclark

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Re: Very Confused
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2009, 08:02:28 AM »
positive elisa and western blot. but no viral load results yet.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Very Confused
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2009, 08:16:21 AM »
Then you need to be posting in "I just tested positive" forum.

Offline aaronclark

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Re: Very Confused
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2009, 08:18:52 AM »
like I said, it is not yet 100% since i do no have have my viral load yet.

Offline Ann

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Re: Very Confused
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2009, 08:24:52 AM »
Aaron,

Generally, if you got a positive WB, you're positive. How long after your risky incident did you test?

If your doctor has taken more blood for CD4 and VL results, it sounds to me that your doctor thinks your poz. When will you have the results of your latest bloodwork?

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline aaronclark

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Re: Very Confused
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2009, 09:20:12 AM »
Hi Ann,
   You said generally when one test positive on WB then it is positive. Since you said generally, when does this not apply?
   i had my risky incident on April 10. I  felt ill on May 2. I was hospitalized the following week. That is also when the brazilian doctors got 2 blood tests for HIV. They also got blood test for others. For "others" I had high transanimase levels, which is not an HIV symptom, but other symptoms are, which are also symptoms of other regular diseases. The first blood test came out postive for chemiluminescence, but negative for WB. The second blood sample came out positive for chemiluminescence but indeterminate for WB (according to Brazilian standards). The blood samples were taken 3 days apart, but the tests were done much later (after about 1-2 weeks after blood drawing). Then I had another screening done when I left Brazil since the Brazilian doctor emailed me about the results of the second blood sample, which I did not expect. That screening came out positive. The urine test that followed was indeterminate. The blood test followed came out positive for elisa and WB according to the standards here which is at least 3 specific bands. I do not know how many bands they actually saw. They got blood samples for viral load and CD4 count, but I have not seen the results yet, maybe next monday. I know that in the UK they don't even do WB because it is very inaccurate or something.
    What now?
Aaron

Offline Ann

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Re: Very Confused
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2009, 09:30:54 AM »
Aaron,

I said "generally" because you were talking about being positive in one country and not or indeterminate in another country.


The blood test followed came out positive for elisa and WB according to the standards here which is at least 3 specific bands.


That means you are hiv positive. Sorry.

They DO do the WB in the UK. I know, I'm in the UK and they followed up my positive antibody test with a WB.

I'm moving this thread into the "I Just Tested Poz" forum.

Ann


Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline aaronclark

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Re: Very Confused
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2009, 09:42:26 AM »
Hi Ann,
     How come I read somehwere that they don't do WB in the UK any more? When did they do WB to you?
     I know that it is more conforting to know that there are more HIV pos people, but what now for me?

Aaron

Offline Ann

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Re: Very Confused
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2009, 09:59:51 AM »

   2. If I have it, I got it in Brazil and most likely from anal intercourse. I think those people (4-some) gave it to me on purpose. I want to file a report, but I am not in Brazil any more. How do I go about doing this?
   3. I was told that even if I find a positive partner that I can get "reinfected" so I have to use a condom all the time, is this true?
   4. If I am positive, will I definately get AIDS if 1. I do not take meds? 2. if I take meds?
   5. When should I start taking meds?
Really hope to get your replies soon. Thanks.

Aaron,

To answer some of your original questions...

2 - Was the unprotected anal sex you had consensual or were you raped? If you were a willing participant, why report it? It was your responsibility to make sure condoms were being used if you didn't want to end up with hiv or some other STI. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's the reality of the situation. To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with hiv or an STI.

3 - Not necessarily. Many people do not use condoms with other poz people. However, the few cases of reinfection that have been reported have occurred in people who were newly infected with their first infection. You'd probably be wise to use condoms even with other pozzies for at least the first year. There are many threads here that discuss the poz on poz barebacking issue.

4 - Unless you turn out to be an elite controller, yes, you will progress to aids if you don't take the meds when you need to. That could be years yet. If you take the meds when they become necessary, you're very unlikely to ever progress to aids.

5 - You should start taking meds when your numbers indicate the need. We have lessons on the subjects of Treatment Questions, and Things You Should Know Before Treatment, and another you should read is The Blood Tests You'll Need.

Some people prefer to start right away when the infection is caught in the primary acute stage (like where you're at now) and others wait until their numbers indicate the need. You don't HAVE to start now though, you can wait if you prefer. I've been poz for twelve years and I still don't need meds. You might be able to go a long time without the meds too.

Hi Ann,
     How come I read somehwere that they don't do WB in the UK any more? When did they do WB to you?
     I know that it is more conforting to know that there are more HIV pos people, but what now for me?

Aaron

I don't know why or where you read what you read, but as far as I know, they still do WB in the UK. I tested poz in 2001, but I know of people diagnosed here since then and they all had a WB as well.

All you can do right now is wait on your first blood results and doctor appointment. Well, that and read the lessons on this site, along with the forums. Don't feel like you have to learn everything all at once though, you've got plenty of time. It's going to be a rollercoaster ride of emotions for you for a while, but it does get better in time. We've all been there and understand what you'll be going through.

Sorry about your diagnosis, but hang in there - you WILL be ok.

Ann


edited to fix a busted link
« Last Edit: July 06, 2009, 10:06:20 AM by Ann »
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline aaronclark

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Re: Very Confused
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2009, 11:04:25 AM »
Thanks Ann. I am confused as to whether to take the meds now or later.
i will copy and paste some of my communications with one of the moderators to answer your questions and other stuff that might be of interest.

Person X:
 
You had some questions on the forums well i have some answers for you.
1. No
2. I wouldn't file a report unless you confirm you have it.
3.Yeah its better to always ware protection unless your partner has same type of hiv.
4. Read the information on poz website for all these answers
5. When your cd4 count is under <350
 
So let me ask you this what make you think you have it? And what makes you think those 4 guys gave it to you? What happened? Its not kool to purposly infect others so we might file a report.. Let me know.

Me:

Thanks for your response.
     1. So that narrows down to 1 group of people - the 4-some group.
     2. I should find out next Monday.
     3. But for oral sex, it is OK not to, right? Can u swallow?
     4. Ok. Let's me try to find them.
     5. OK.
    
     To answer your questions. Because WB says I have it. The 2 guys plus 1 girl must have been the ones who gave it to me because of timeline. If indeed the symptoms I had last May was because of HIV, and it is not possible to get it from lick someone's penis after he came, then the 4 some was the only possible risk and the symptoms appeared 3 weeks after the 4-some.
     I was in Brazil at that time. I was the only foreigner in the club and one of the guys picked me out and we went to the "dark room". Other locals wanted to join us, but they stopped them and said that something about for foreigners only (my Portuguese is not good, but I can understand a little), after that the 4 of us went to a motel. I ended up really with the guy that I did not like, he sucked me, licked me. While he was licking me, I fell asleep (from alcohol) then he started fucking me (I did not feel it, but saw it when I woke up), but by the time I woke up he was cumming inside of me without a condom, which pissed me off. Anyway, it was too late for me to do anything. One of the guys asked the other guy about him coming inside of me, but I did not understasnd what they were saying. After that, the 3 were still fucking, but at the end the guy who lured me did not cum, which I found strange since we were in the motel for a long time. After that, they allowed me to take pictures of them fucking. The next day, we exchange emails through text, but did not contact each other, until after I was informed by the Brazilian doctor through email (I had already left Brazil by then) that I might be possitive (I was indeterminate according to their standards, for the 2nd blood test.) I emailed that guy many times, but he never responded, which makes me even more suspicious. I did not tell him the reason for my email, but I think they were waiting to see if they "scored".
    Before we went to the motel, he was asking some questions that could be a little suspicious. Maybe it was the pattern of the questions.
   How do we file a report when they are in Brazil? I have the guy's number (and I know that the cellphone SIM card have to be registered in Brazil, but they could have gotten a stolen one). I also have their pcitures. I do not know if these will help.
Aaron.

Person X:
You cannot catch hiv from licking or swallowing sperm/cum even from an infected hiv+ person. The only way is by intercourse without protection. He came in your ass? Is that the only unsafe act you were involved in that night besides the licking of cum? I'm sorry to hear this but i myself had made some stupid mistakes while under influence of alchole too. But it does seem he did it without your consent.
 
So now after he came inside you he had unprotected sex with the other two? I wonder if maybe he was the only one infected or the girl was too? Theres really no telling. You have his phone number and picture? I would think you would have to goback to the country and file a complaint in the nearest police station where it occured.
 
Hey im just currious what were your symtoms like. You say 3 weeks after infection.
 
I would say practice safe sex from now on so no one else has to have this happen to them. The guy probaly feels guilty now maybe not if hes an asshole. Was he drunk too?


No, they were not drunk. I was the only one.
    Does it mean that I will eventually have AIDS unless I am a controller?
   Yes, he came in my ass and that was the only unsafe sex act. I hate that guy. i don't even like him. Actually, he bottomed for the other guy and the other guy topped the girl too. The girl and the guy who came in me were actually cousins, I was told just before we left the motel, which made me grossed out.
   My symptomps were fever (upto 39oC, doctor said upto 40, but I do not recall that). I was also on fever reducer the day before 39oC, so it could have been higher. Muscle and or joint pains, sweating, rash (but it looked like the rash on the picture in wiki regarding typhoid fever http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoid_fever), headache, tiredness, diarrhea then constipation, which led to hemorrhoids, which led to anal abscess (right now). No mouth soars or soar throat, no abdominal pain. My eosinophils was 0. But I also had high levels of transaminase (which has nothing to do with HIV), so we thought it was some sort of hepatitis. (It was not Hep A-C as they tested negetive, it was not syphillis either). But now I read that high transaminase levels can be due to Typhoi fever. i did take a traditional medicine for typhoid fever just the day before hospitalization and I was told that that traditional med is 1 time cure it medicine. It was just actually a vegetable and salt. They did not find anything in my blood and urine. The stool sample - only E. coli.
    The doctors did not find swollen glands, but I did a few weeks ago (so I think). I still have dizziness like i am on a boat, but it is getting better (after taking coffee). I told the doctors about this dizziness, they think it may be anxiety though. Currently I still have a fungal infection on my face. I got it when I went to the hospital in Brazil, maybe from not washing my face since I was so tired. I have been given a topical med, it has been a week since i used it, but it has not completely disappeared. But I have had this type of infection several years back, buit it did not last this long although then it was recurrent. Oh yes, infection disappeared after I left Brazil after using some high strength cortisone cream, but it cam back with a vengance after my second hospitalization. (I have had 3 so far since the second one, they did not find the anal abscess). I have had redness around my nose though for over a decade now. Don't know. don't know.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2009, 11:10:03 AM by aaronclark »

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: Very Confused
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2009, 07:50:14 PM »
  3. I was told that even if I find a positive partner that I can get "reinfected" so I have to use a condom all the time, is this true?
  

If you are in a monogamous relationship with somebody else who is poz and you are both on meds and have undetectable viral loads, then it is probably fine not to use condoms.

The notion that it is fine to "serosort," i.e to have sex, especially anal sex, without condoms with others who are poz is, in my opinion, flirting with disaster.

Here is the latest finding of a particularly bad case of Hep C that is international in scope and "hitting HIV+ men hardest."

An Outbreak of Hep C Hits Gay, HIV-Positive Men Hardest

"Serosorting" -- i.e., only having unprotected sex with people who share your HIV status -- is not the same as having safer sex, experts warn. The latest warning against serosorting has just emerged: A recent study has confirmed that outbreaks of hepatitis C are happening among HIV-positive gay men in Europe and Australia. What may make this strain particularly dangerous is that it is often sexually transmitted and may not respond well to therapy. As a result, experts are recommending that all HIV-positive gay and bisexual men get annual tests for hep C. Of course, doing your best to use protection during sex is another important takeaway. (Article from Canadian AIDS Treatment Information Exchange)


LINK:

http://www.thebody.com/content/art52057.html

Offline Ann

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Re: Very Confused
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2009, 01:00:17 PM »

If you are in a monogamous relationship with somebody else who is poz and you are both on meds and have undetectable viral loads, then it is probably fine not to use condoms.


Not necessarily. I'm in a poz/poz relationship. He's on meds and undetectable, I'm NOT on meds (and so obviously have a VL) and we don't use condoms. Neither of us have resistance issues and it's not a problem.

I do agree that serosorting for casual sex probably isn't the best idea because you never know what other STIs they may have. Barebacking with someone you know intimately is a different matter.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: Very Confused
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2009, 01:28:08 PM »
There are just so many variables: is one on meds, does one have a viral load, is one only top, are they versatile, etc etc?

My partner is on meds and undetecable right now and I am not yet on meds and have a viral load. Before he started meds we had the same resistance profile but his is now of course different since he is on meds and has one or two new mutations that were not there before.

If he were to top me bareback even though he is now UD, it would concern me that there is still enough virus in the semen even if undetectable in the plasma that I may acquire his new strain (post meds) of the virus and it would change my whole resistance profile since I have not yet started meds. Or he could have a viral load blip or his therapy can fail before we catch it, etc.

I know this is probably unlikely but I don't think it's impossible. I would only be comfortable having bareback sex with him at this point only when we are both on meds and undetectable. It comes down to a personal choice after knowing all the risks and variables.

There's an interesting Q&A with Dr. Gallant about this here is his reply and the link below to the whole Q&A:

I agree that the risk is extremely low; I couldn't say whether it's comparable to the risk of flying in plane(depends on the airline, I guess! If the Swiss made that analogy, it's an unfortunate one in light of the infamous Swissair crash.) However, before you throw away the condoms, there are several things to consider: 1. There's a lot of bad stuff being passed around out there, including infections that can increase your risk of HIV transmission, such as syphilis and herpes. These infections can be prevented with condoms. 2. We know that you can have an undetectable viral load in your blood but a detectable viral load in semen or vaginal fluid, so it's still theoretically possible to transmit with an undetectable viral load. 3. Your viral load doesn't get measured every day, and people DO sometimes fail therapy. How can you be sure that your viral load is still undetectable today just because it was 3 months ago. I still believe in condoms for intercourse in most situations, especially when the positive partner is on top. In the case of a monogamous discordant couple who wants to consider unprotected sex, we talk about the risks, however small. There's no right or wrong answer--people have to make up their own minds about the amount of risk they're willing to accept.

LINK:

http://www.hopkins-hivguide.org/q_a/patient/hiv_transmission_and_prevention/swiss_statement_on_hiv_transmission.html?contentInstanceId=435487

« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 06:06:29 PM by Inchlingblue »

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: Very Confused
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2009, 02:18:50 PM »
Not to beat a dead horse but I was reading something else and came across this by chance:

Studies at CROI report finding HIV in semen despite undetectable HIV in blood.

HIV in semen may be infectious, in one semen sample with the highest HIV levels they examined it and found it to be contagious. Study authors say there is a risk for transmission, even if small, and public health messages should consider these findings. I think the Swiss statements rankled a number of researchers so they felt they had to do these studies


LINK:

http://www.natap.org/2009/CROI/croi_157.htm

 


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