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Author Topic: 9/11 conspiracy theories  (Read 7214 times)

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Offline DingoBoi

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9/11 conspiracy theories
« on: June 01, 2006, 08:12:04 AM »
So, i've been youtubing again and came across a 2part hour long documentaryish type film of the world trade center attacks. 

part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp3FzSoMUYo&search=wtc%20loose
part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBhnXztBVsE&search=wtc%20loose

I know conspiracy theories are popular and such, but this seemed a well thought out description of the events that day that contradict official stories.

I do not wish to start anything by this, especially by those who may have lost loved ones, but I was wondering your takes on this?   I must say, that I have to question my media derived beliefs because I never heard most of this, but it appears to be factual, though I certainly say, skewed to support their conclusions.... and I can't say those conclusions are unjustified based upon what we already know about our (lack of) leadership in the presidency.




Offline jack

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2006, 08:38:05 AM »
am watching it now. It is very obvious that the flash they say occurred before theplanes hit the building didnt happen that way. Every flash happens when the plane hits not before.
Facts we do know. The CIA discovered in mid 90s that muslim arabs were taking flying lessons. They were unable to share this info with fbi because of Gorelicks Wall. Gorelick was also on the BOD of Fannie Mae, the largest financial disaster and looting in US History. Thats another story.
We also know that the same group tried to blow up the wtc in 90s.
We know that Terry Mcnichols spent a month in the phillipines in a room next to the room of Ramsi Yousef the first WTC bomber. The bomb that blew up in OKC is identical to the WTC bomb.
I am sure everyone remembers the third suspect of middle east origin that authorities were looking for in the first 48 hours after okc. This is the real coverup. Clinton blamed okc on right wing radio talk shows? Now that is funny. It was easier for willy to blame OKC on right wing americans than on terrorists.
So now we blame 911 on Bush? GEEZ. I will continue to listen to this.

Offline Lwood

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2006, 08:46:48 AM »
ya, it was the smoking man from Xfiles the whole time....and he rode away on an aligator through the New York Sewer system and financed it all with a horde of Nazi Gold that he got from Jimmy Hoffa.
Aside from Star Trek Conventions and gatherings of Furries, YouTube is probablly the only place that stuff like this gets watched. They just de bunked the last internet conspiracy theory about the plane that hit the Pentagon, this one is even more ridiculous. " ya, lets strap a missile to the plane and fire it a nanosecond before we plow into the building, because a 737 going 300 miles per hour and loaded with 50,000 pounds of jet fuel just might not quite do enough damage"      Puff.. Puff.... PASS !!!

If you want to see a Good Youtube 9-11 video try this one....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN_sgUd5m_4  it gives me a chubby every time. :P
"Fortunately, I Keep My T Cells Numbered For Just Such An Emergency"
  -Either Foghorn Leghorn or Johnny Cash

Offline jack

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2006, 09:33:13 AM »
just watched the whole thing. Sorta of reminds me of Flight 800 twa. Many say they saw a missile hit the plane. When investigators found traces of explosives from a missile or bomb,they were told the plane was used as training plane for bomb teams. That and the plane that crashed right after 911 are two I always wonder about.
I just dont know why any American would blow up the WTC. And what happened to all the orignal planes and their passengers?
We do know that an al quaeda operative working for the City of New York stole bluebrints for wtc several months before 911.
Sounds like a real bad 24 episode.

Offline Lwood

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2006, 10:45:52 AM »
There are plenty of 9-11 conspracies that I do agree with, and wonder about like the intelligence or lack thereof pre 9-11,  the possible links with the Oklahoma City bombing, the links with Saudi Arabia and the mysterious deaths of the Saudi Royal Family members shortly after Sept.11, as well as the weird lack of terrorism since Sept 11, Id like to think that our own "Men In Black"  have managed to snuff all of the terrorists lurking in the shadows, but I just can't believe it. In the movie 'Munich'  ( which I think Jack will like )  it was mentioned that the US had essentially paid off the PLO in order to avoid terrorism against Americans following the Munich Olympics , also in September BTW, and it makes me sick to think that something similar may have gone down following Sept. 11, possibly with Saudis acting as the bag men, and taking their payment by Jacking us Long Hard and Deep on oil prices....
Now THERE'S  a  nasty conspiracy theory for ya...

Lwood
who really liked the 'Lone Gunmen' untill they were cancelled by the cokeheads at the CIA....and knows where to get those tablets that you can disolve in water to make synthetic fuel too...
"Fortunately, I Keep My T Cells Numbered For Just Such An Emergency"
  -Either Foghorn Leghorn or Johnny Cash

Offline Lisa

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2006, 10:51:13 AM »
LOL @ puff  puff  pass.....

After all......what's a bombing without a bunch of fun folklore to pass on to the next generation? ::)
No Fear  No Shame  No Stigma
Happiness is not getting what you want, but wanting what you have.

Offline jack

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  • fomerly the loser known as Jake
Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2006, 10:58:16 AM »
lwood, I have watched Munich twice. I thought it was pretty good,nice body count. How strange was it when they shot that babe in Amsterdam. I have heard the book is better, but that is always the case unless its a Grisham novel.
I still think the main reason for rising oil prices other than dwindling supply is the cheap US dollar, but who knows what kind of side deals are made at the highest levels. I remember Kerry saying that Bush had some deal with the Saudis to keep oil prices down. That sure hasnt worked real well.
On one hand we think W is a moron, and he sure speaks like one, and then the same people want to give him credit for the most nefarious and genius of conspiracies.

Offline jack

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  • fomerly the loser known as Jake
Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2006, 11:12:30 AM »
Dingo,what did you think of explosions in the building as it was falling? I wonder if those were real? It sure makes you wonder if someone planted explosives. Sure seems like someone else would have noticed this if it was real. 
I am pretty sure I saw a film recently of the plane going into the pentagon, and you could see the plane.
The best book I have read on 911 and events leading up to it is "1000yrs for Revenge" by Peter Lance. he has a new book out on some type of 911 coverup. I am going to buy it now.
http://www.peterlance.com/
http://www.writerswrite.com/journal/oct03/lance4.htm

Offline Iggy

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2006, 11:23:09 AM »
.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 10:06:26 PM by Iggy »

Offline brucewayne

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2006, 11:32:54 AM »
George Bush is a Tyrant, Terrorist, And Racist. Fuck Him!!!

Offline Lwood

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2006, 12:13:58 PM »
The theory that there were explosives planted in the WTC was pretty much shot to hell by a documentary called something like "Why The World Trade Center Fell" on either PBS or Discovery, that explained the engineering and architecture of the WTC and why it collapsed the way it did. The really heartbreaking part of the documentary was the interview with the Architect who designed the World Trade Center, and how he blamed himself for the collapse.


Another documentary that left my mouth agape was 'The Man Who Predicted 9-11'   about the FBI agent that had compiled a shitload of evidence that there was another attack being planned on the WTC and basicly got the brush off. He  eventually Quit the FBI and took a job as head of security for the World Trade Center where he was killed on Sept. 11.  That is seriously fucked up.

I read about 9-11 stories and rumors that had been confirmed, on Snopes, and this one really creeped me out...
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/hands.htm
"Fortunately, I Keep My T Cells Numbered For Just Such An Emergency"
  -Either Foghorn Leghorn or Johnny Cash

Offline Lwood

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2006, 01:41:42 PM »
As long as we're going there,   I took this on my first trip to New York.. :'(
They were testing the beacons, and it was  truly Ghostly and Ominous  with the low clouds that night.

"Fortunately, I Keep My T Cells Numbered For Just Such An Emergency"
  -Either Foghorn Leghorn or Johnny Cash

Offline fearless

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2006, 07:21:20 PM »
It's a load of bollocks Dingo.
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline DingoBoi

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2006, 07:31:21 PM »
as most conspiracy theories are... but it did raise some interesting points... not all i agreed with.

contradictions that really haven't been resolved, though there may certainly be explanations for them.   

I just started looking into this, so i may not be as up to date as many of you..... curiousity and all.... and a bit of free time... oooh, that's an evil thing.

I don't even watch the news or read the paper.... i don't really want to know.

i suppose it shows that even reasonable people can be swayed by misinformation or distortion of facts.

but there is still some doubt there... not everything adds up...so to speak....

i was kinda using this thread as a sounding board for opinions on this.... and you all pretty much confirmed my initial beleifs... but I suspect there is still much more that we don't know....


Offline Iggy

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2006, 10:29:53 AM »
.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 10:06:02 PM by Iggy »

Offline jack

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2006, 10:51:15 AM »
iggy, i thought it was very interesting and I also thought it was very interesting that there isnt a single post supporting the conspiracy.
I also thought it was interesting in tactics they used. They would tell viewer something he should be seeing that didnt match the video, such as the flash prior to planes crashing into buildings.
also late in the story they are reporting a mobile phone call from a passenger. Even though the text says" i see water and now I see buildings" the commentator(who was very creepy) read it as "i see building and now water" twice trying instill the impression that the planes were ditched in the ocean.
Maybe I missed it but did they ever explain who was responsible for the conspiracy or why? maybe I missed it.

to this day there are still people who think roosevelt let the japs destroy our navy and kill many citizens so  US could enter the war. Just silly.

Offline Lwood

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2006, 11:28:41 AM »
Something I read on Snopes.com puts alot of conspiracy theories in perspective, the Idea that some people will always lean tword outrageous conspiracies rather than the plain truth simply because they wont/cant deal with the cold hard reality.
 In this case that 19 religious fanatics for a variety of reasons decided to trade their lives in order to kill as many Americans as they could in a very large and Dramatic and Horrible way. Airline security in this country was and continues to be pathetic, The FBI,and CIA simply didn't do their jobs and Frankly, if they want to do it again they can and probablly will. Easier for some to believe in Mysterious remotely flown missile firing drones controled by Dr. Evil or the Legion of DOOM.
Alot of the shortcomings and screwups preceding during and following Sept 11 fall more into the category of 'Scandall' rather than Conspiracy. Like the way the Saudi  and Bin Laden Family  members were given special permission to fly chartered flights in the days following Sept 11 when the entire airline system was shut down. That ALONE should have gotten Bush impeached. but I digress,  The 'Documentary' in question is obviously  what Ive heard described as "A far stretch of a Willing Imagination"  Bullshit, in other words.  I could take grainy oddly lit TV newscamera footage from dozens of sources and probablly pick out an image of the Wicked Witch of the Middle East flying on a broomstick over Lower Manhattan with Ali Babba on a Flying Carpet in Hot Pursuit.
There are plenty of scandalls and screwups surrounding Sept.11, but the stuff in this film isn't either.
I think it would be a stretch to even classify it as a  'Mockumentary'
I gotta go, they're about to rerun Alien Autopsy on Fox...
"Fortunately, I Keep My T Cells Numbered For Just Such An Emergency"
  -Either Foghorn Leghorn or Johnny Cash

Offline sdcabincrew74

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2006, 12:35:04 PM »
I am more inclined to believe this video then what we were told by the state run new agencies in this country.  GW Bush is a terrorist, a liar, a fool, a war monger and a murderer.  I full believe he allowed those americans to be murdered to meet his hidden agenda.  I lost family, friends and co-workers that day and I FULLY believe our government had a hand in allowing that to happen.  

Ask any 757 or 767 pilot in the industry if a person training on props can make those plane perform like they did and they will honestly tell you HELL NO! 

Those building were designed to withstand the impact force of a Boeing 707 (the largest plane when they were built).  By comparison the 757 and 767 are lighter and carry less fuel than 707's.  Also, their fuel tanks were FAR from full.  Those planes were meant to fly LONG distances, to fly cross country they only need a half tank or so or fuel and airlines put MIN amounts of fuel in planes to reduce weight and save money. 

If you are not questioning what you are told by our government you are just a little lamb being led to the butcher shop.  To blindly believe what you are told by our government and news agencies is just plain stupid. 
« Last Edit: June 02, 2006, 12:39:34 PM by sdcabincrew74 »
The difference between an overnight and a layover is luck!

Offline Lwood

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2006, 02:21:42 PM »
I've heard more than once that the training they got ( that we know about) simply didn't match up with what they pulled off that day.  The simplist answer is that they got additional, hands on training in either the Saudi Air Force, or Airlines.  Without splitting hairs over specifics, I completely agree that there's alot we're not being told.
"Fortunately, I Keep My T Cells Numbered For Just Such An Emergency"
  -Either Foghorn Leghorn or Johnny Cash

Offline Terry

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2006, 02:58:47 PM »
Quote: GW Bush is a terrorist, a liar, a fool, a war monger and a murderer. I full believe he allowed those americans to be murdered to meet his hidden agenda.


I absolutely have no use for George Bush (Nor did I for his father or Reagan) as far as anything personal in my life goes.

But you all seem to forget that it was America that was attacked in the first place by Bin Ladin. Heís the Terrorist, Not Bush. I have to say (as much as it sickens me) Iím glad that Bush was in office when we were attacked and not Gore or that pansy-ass Carter.

Itís about time that America stood up fought back. I've always been proud to be an American and always will be. Iím not proud of some of our leaders and their actions. But I hope that a better government within this country starts to take hold soon. Or we will be on the same road to destruction as France and the rest of Europe is right now.

One really bad thing that the Republican Religious Conservative Right Wing has done to this country is to divide the people of this country (Red/blue). The haves and the have not. They should practice what they preach from the pulpits, and stop spewing hatred among peoples. Thatís all Iíll give to Bush. That he stood his ground and went after those desert fleas made my day.

« Last Edit: June 02, 2006, 03:03:30 PM by Terry »

Offline jack

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2006, 05:59:39 PM »
Terry, I also have no use for the Christian Right, but we both see people we dont agree with as dividing us. To me there never was a more aggressive divider than  Clinton and his gang, they played each economic group and ethnic group and race off each other in their attempt to get votes.
Bush is no more a murderer and a terrorist than he is the man in the moon. He is not a conservative but a big goverment guy, just like his daddy.  He has tried to take votes from Dems by spending more than any human in history.
His attempt to ban gay marriages is despicable. Who Cares George? No one I have ever met. He has almost destroyed the conservative movement in the US by masquerading as one. I didnt like him as govenor cause he always made deals with dems and spent like a mutha.  I am sick of him using our soldiers as targets for middle east thugs. If you go to war, you should go to win, to defeat and crush the enemy. If you are not willing to do that, than you dont go to war. But our country cant stomach such gore,except in our entertainment, so we wont kick ass till we are on the verge of defeat.
George won the war in two weeks and lost it in four years by not crushing the enemy. Because we didnt level Iraq we now have to listen to this little sawed off creep from Iran. Notice how every Friday he run the price of oil up with saber rattling? If Bush talks to these people it will be worse than when Clinton brought the mass murderer Arafat to the US. You cant appease these people. You either accept them as they are and that they want to destroy us or you kill them. Appeasement just pisses them off. The lose all respect for us and just want to kill us more.

Offline Consumed

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2006, 08:52:49 PM »
Bull Shit! I was there for it all. The first plane flew right over us and I was under the Building for the second, and yes it happened because we had a guard down. End of story. I'm tired of reliving this.
LYS

Offline Iggy

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2006, 09:08:38 PM »
.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 10:03:24 PM by Iggy »

Offline brucewayne

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2006, 11:25:05 PM »
yea i agree with sdcabin74 the terrorist that so called crash into the pentagon was a barely below average flyer and that was said by his instructer so him pulling off the manuvers he did with the plane the government said crashed into the building i am just not buying and never will

Offline DingoBoi

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2006, 12:36:40 AM »
iggy, i read the popmechanics article.   I just can't give it credence.   It really doesn't refute anything and frankly, sounds more like a PR spin without substance at all.  Just sayin here.  Basically the PM article read as 'nope.. not true', without substance.  so i started there as you suggested.

I also saw the whole 5 frames of footage from the pentagon crash, which really shows nothing but impact.    There supposedly was other confiscated video from a hotel nearby.   There are still, in my mind unresolved things.


your claims that publications are non-biased because they are non-government is laughable.   The government is very well capable of exerting pressure to get a slant that they want published.   Does that say it happened, no, but you cannot make the claim either in my opinion.

As for the seeming discordance between my views on hiv denialsts.. well. .they present a clear and present danger to hiv+ people who might die as a result of of their views.   The WTC people are already dead.   I'm not debating something that happened... I'm just questioning how/why it happened.   There isn't immenent risk to people lives as a result of this discourse. 

I still don't buy into the official story.   So be pissed at me if you like.   One only learns by asking questions and this doesn't violate the TOS here.

I don't buy into all the conspirarcy claims, but I do find some credible or at least questionable.  That certainly isn't to deny it's tragic... I just think there is more behind it than known.   War is a good motivator to re-elect a president.   

I don't see this as being harmful.  It happened.  that's tragic on every level.   To those who lost someone, it may be painful, though ultimately false... that's still up in my mind.   I see every political reason for this to occur.  War is good for business.  war is good for getting a president re-elected, lest we all be unpatriotic.  War is good for oil.   And damages are good for insurance monies.

Does it make it more palpable and less painful if terrorists caused this rather than with the consent and/or instruction of our own government? 

It seems more like we are arguing about whether the weapon was a knife or a skillet.   The end result doesn't matter.. nor where hiv came from, just that it now is what is.  

I am open to links and would be very surprised if their isn't a 'counter-movie' to the one i originally quoted.   You being much more knowlegable in this arena might point me to such a movie.  

and before i get totally jumped on again, this thread was entitled, 'conspiracy theories', not 'denialist theories'.








« Last Edit: June 03, 2006, 01:29:19 AM by DingoBoi »

Offline jack

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2006, 07:30:40 AM »
dingo. didnt the goverment just release film of jet going into the pentagon? I am pretty sure I saw a big fucking jet in it.  But I could be wrong.
would bush stage 911 only a few months into his presidency so he could get reelected 4 years later.
if your video is real, what happened to the real planes?
If you watch the video closely you can see there is no flash before the planes hit the building.
My favorite was the commentator reading text "i see water and now buildings" as " i see buildings and now water". he did this twice to try and make you think planes were ditched in the ocean.
This video creates more questions than the real story.
If you want the real story read "thousand years for revenge" by Peter Lance. He is a new york liberal. He puts much blame on Bush admin for being unprepared but tells the story of how goverment agencies and Clinton failed to act throughout the 90s on these criminals.
In the end the only people to blame are the terrorists. We can armchair all we want, but the fact remains that there is a group of people who wants to kill everyone who doesnt agree with them.

Offline Iggy

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Re: 9/11 conspiracy theories
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2006, 10:21:11 AM »
.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2007, 10:02:44 PM by Iggy »

 


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