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Author Topic: bombs on planes?  (Read 11484 times)

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Offline scotslassie

  • Member
  • Posts: 82
bombs on planes?
« on: August 10, 2006, 06:14:12 AM »
Waking up to severe threat to Heathrow planes bound for US

This seems like the beginning of constant threats( ok 9/11 and 7/7 was, you know what I mean)

I just cant believe it- Seemsto be because of the whole Israel/Lebanon thing. I had a chill when I saw our Tony( good old Tony in the caribbean ::)) and Bush standing together, talking nonsense

Im sorry, this post is not meant to offend of start a bunfight- Im just sick of the way the world is going I really am

A sad scotslassie (who prays noone will get hurt again in terrorist attacks and we can go some way in acheiving some kind of understanding arond the world )

Offline scotslassie

  • Member
  • Posts: 82
Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2006, 06:16:43 AM »
News breaks to say it was United Airlines who were to be hit again

I wonder how much  money they have lost recently.

I flew less than a week ago back from Africa, things were busy and security took ages to get back to UK- wonder if they knew then?


Offline alisenjafi

  • Member
  • Posts: 811
  • They say HIV comes from monkeys!
Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2006, 06:57:57 AM »
Hey while I have the same abhorrence to our our leaders, the Israeli part is just bs. Just like the whole q'ran ballyhoo. Muslims have no problem blowing each other up so why bent out of shape when another country doesn't like when it's citizens are kidnapped.

Btw in muslim law females can be married at age 9. Their prophet married a six year old girl. I believe this is called pedophilia. So long as religion ( any) is around this crap will go on. America has a growing fundamental christian group that is infiltrated everything from education to medicine to politics. They are buying their  bs ways into our gov't.
Here is an example of how tolerant America's good friend Saudi Arabia  is
http://www.saudia-online.com/Travelling%20to%20Saudi%20Arabia.htm


CUSTOMS REGULATIONS

A number of items are not allowed to be brought into the Kingdom due to religious reasons and local regulations. These include alcoholic beverages, pork and pork products, prohibited drugs and narcotics, firearms, explosives, edged weapons and pornographic materials.

Items and articles belonging to religions other than Islam are also prohibited. These may include Bibles, crucifixes, statues, carvings, items with religious symbols such as the Star of David, and others. Makkah and Medina hold special religious significance and only persons of the Islamic faith are allowed entry.
 They have no problem  blatently dissing other"s religious beliefs.
Not to mention how they treat gays. How did you feel on Iran's murder of that little girl? Tolerance is a 2 way street. Get rid of religion.
Cheers
an opinionated Johnny
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline blondbeauty

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2006, 07:10:54 AM »
Islam will be the cause of the third world war. As you say Johnny: tolerance is a two way street and muslims are the least tolerant people in the world. Do you remember the demostration in London with hundreds of muslims saying we are the cancer of Islam?. What are they doing in London or the occidental world then? Why dont they go back to their countries to live in tents on the desert again? That is what they deserve.
The catholic Kings did very well in Spain when they got rid of all the muslims.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2006, 07:17:55 AM by blondbeauty »
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
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Offline J.R.E.

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,221
  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2006, 07:33:17 AM »


 Been watching this unfold at work last night. Heathrow airport was as they called it "organised Chaos.

 Arrested 20 ( or something like that.)  so far....



Ray
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline jack

  • Member
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  • fomerly the loser known as Jake
Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2006, 07:38:52 AM »
The little whackjob in Iran told us this would happen soon. Iran and Syria are up to their eyeballs in all of this,bet on it.  Hezbollah is Syria and Iran. Syria and Iran get their weapons from Russia and China. WWIII is in progress.
How anyone equate right wing Christians to these madmen is beyond me. There is no comparison. These are people who use their own children as weapon delivery systems.
This threat will not end till good Muslims rise up and stop the terrorists. It must be made abundantly clear to Muslims around the world that this is their problem too and they must help solve it by declaring war on those who use the Muslim religion as their Trojan horse.
Do I hear anyone complaining this morning about eavesdropping on telephone calls from or to the US with known foreign terrorists?

Offline alisenjafi

  • Member
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  • They say HIV comes from monkeys!
Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2006, 07:54:24 AM »
Jack if I remember my history the first crusades used- children! I know when you are in the epicentre ( Texas ) of this crap it is hard to believe there are other realities.

When people  are told they can't get legal medicines because the doctor or pharmacist doesn't believe in it, then I equate them with those whackjobs.
When American museums show exhibitions of dinosaurs and man co existing - then I equate it.
When christian tv says that people lived longer because they were inbred, then I equate it.
When Christians protest military funerals then I equate it.
When people are told they have no right to marry then I equate it.
When Bush was elected the last time -
How many more examples shall I give?

Quote
These are people who use their own children as weapon delivery systems.
and whose children are in Iraq serving under America?
Cheers
Johnny
« Last Edit: August 10, 2006, 07:56:42 AM by alisenjafi »
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline scotslassie

  • Member
  • Posts: 82
Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2006, 07:59:31 AM »
Can I just say I am in no way against Islam as a religion- I come from scotland where people are beaten up, or killed in some cases, because they support a catholic or protestant football team ffs

Religion is the main player in this, but I dont think it is Islams fault. Its the extremism where people think it is right to do honour killings and suicide bomb places so they go to heaven and become martyrs. They are the sick ones, not the millions of other muslims who are actually tolerant and peaceful

I just cant abide our PM siding with wacko bush and geting involved, I hate my country being involved in all of this. I knew all this would happen as soon as Blair decided he wanted to start bombing Iraq 4 years ago

Anyway, I dont like to see muslims being attacked, because its a select few. Also places like Iran and Syria have severe regimes, yes, but launching attacks on them and saying you will take military action against them will only add flames to the fire- I just wonder what can be done

And as others say, I often wonder will Islam become the reason for the next World War?

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2006, 08:30:36 AM »
This threat will not end till good Muslims rise up and stop the terrorists. It must be made abundantly clear to Muslims around the world that this is their problem too and they must help solve it by declaring war on those who use the Muslim religion as their Trojan horse.

But Jakey, I thought you, Dubya and the rest of the hawks in the US had risen up to stop the terrorists! Or was that just crazy talk?

:-*

MtD

Offline scotslassie

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2006, 08:34:18 AM »
Matty you forgot Tone as well

 :)


Offline jack

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  • fomerly the loser known as Jake
Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2006, 08:37:47 AM »
johny, I really don't know what to say. You equate arab muslim children strapped with bombs to our soldiers? You equate muslim terrorists with right wing christians?  Maybe we should kill ourselves? Lets ban religion is the US, that will stop the muslim terrorists.

Scotlassie, when will you people stop blaming Bush,christians, and the US for muslim terrorists? We have been appeasing these scoundrels since Reagan ran from Beirut. They hate us because we don't use our power to destroy them. They hate us because we exist. They hate us because we appease.
Bush has tried to bring democracy to the middle east hoping that one state would create a domino effect toppling all the dictatorships, who finance the system that creates the terrorists because having the US as a bogeyman keeps the masses in line. It was a noble but stupid plan.
Mid east democracy in not worth one US life. If you go to war go to destroy your enemy and win. If you aren't willing to do your enemy  one more than he will do you, don't go to war.

Offline blondbeauty

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,784
Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2006, 08:43:17 AM »
There is no reason for Muslim terrorism. We are not doing anything wrong to deserve terrorist attacks. If we start blaming ourselves, terrorism will win the battle. The only bad people here are the terrorists. Stop blaming America, stop blaming Bush or Blair. Don´t make the mistakes the foolish Spanish president is making every day finding excuses and justifications for terrorists attacks. This is like when a child abuser makes the child feel guilty.
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline jack

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,578
  • fomerly the loser known as Jake
Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2006, 08:45:20 AM »
Matty, W appeases the terrorists with his attempt to bring democracy to the middle east. I was for the war because I thought we were going in to destroy our enemy not bring democracy to them. We led the horse to water, it ain't drinking.  Bush should have attacked Syria and Iran two years ago, not in attempt to bring democracy to them but to crush them. Syria and Iran are waging war on Israel now via Hezbollah. Its really difficult to argue this with people who think we are the bad guys.

Offline scotslassie

  • Member
  • Posts: 82
Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2006, 08:47:28 AM »
johny, I really don't know what to say. You equate arab muslim children strapped with bombs to our soldiers? You equate muslim terrorists with right wing christians?  Maybe we should kill ourselves? Lets ban religion is the US, that will stop the muslim terrorists.

Scotlassie, when will you people stop blaming Bush,christians, and the US for muslim terrorists? We have been appeasing these scoundrels since Reagan ran from Beirut. They hate us because we don't use our power to destroy them. They hate us because we exist. They hate us because we appease.
Bush has tried to bring democracy to the middle east hoping that one state would create a domino effect toppling all the dictatorships, who finance the system that creates the terrorists because having the US as a bogeyman keeps the masses in line. It was a noble but stupid plan.
Mid east democracy in not worth one US life. If you go to war go to destroy your enemy and win. If you aren't willing to do your enemy  one more than he will do you, don't go to war.

Sorry I have never cricitised christianity in fact I made it clear I dont blame religion per se

What I do criticise is Blair and Bush- who are all out for money, and for fame, and for their own agendas. They are not fighting these wars for us, or for the world they want themselves to be remembered for doing " good"- what they perceive as good. The fact that so many people in our countries are christian and jewish mean they have to play into their hands, blaming the big bad muslim people.

Now I dont know a huge amount about politics- but what I do know is that countries in the middle east are minted, and our countries want a share of it. Hence gulf war etc etc. Im not so naive to think that bush and blair are all about stopping terrorism and stopping attrocities- although I hope they dont actually want this- but if they DO want to stop it they have go to rethink the way they interact with muslim society- whether it is right or wrong, I dont think anyone can say. But I do know that these things are , for a large part, down to the two of them

Offline scotslassie

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  • Posts: 82
Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2006, 08:48:36 AM »
Matty, W appeases the terrorists with his attempt to bring democracy to the middle east. I was for the war because I thought we were going in to destroy our enemy not bring democracy to them. We led the horse to water, it ain't drinking.  Bush should have attacked Syria and Iran two years ago, not in attempt to bring democracy to them but to crush them. Syria and Iran are waging war on Israel now via Hezbollah. Its really difficult to argue this with people who think we are the bad guys.

do you really believe we should wipe out syria and iran? Isnt that just as bad as them saying wipe out israel?

Offline Matty the Damned

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  • Ninja Please
Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2006, 08:53:48 AM »
johny, I really don't know what to say. You equate arab muslim children strapped with bombs to our soldiers? You equate muslim terrorists with right wing christians?  Maybe we should kill ourselves? Lets ban religion is the US, that will stop the muslim terrorists.

Well why not Jakey? Are not US soldiers on trial at the moment for the rape and murder of an Iraqi girl? In her own house? As for killing yourselves, it's an option, but let's put it on the back burner.

For now.

As for banning religion, I'm not sure. It's a useful tool of social control.

Scotlassie, when will you people stop blaming Bush,christians, and the US for muslim terrorists? We have been appeasing these scoundrels since Reagan ran from Beirut. They hate us because we don't use our power to destroy them. They hate us because we exist. They hate us because we appease.


No Jakey, they hate us (remember Australia and the UK are slavish members of the Coalition Witless) because we seek to impose our will on them. They're not entirely sure why we think we're better.

Bush has tried to bring democracy to the middle east hoping that one state would create a domino effect toppling all the dictatorships, who finance the system that creates the terrorists because having the US as a bogeyman keeps the masses in line. It was a noble but stupid plan.


As usual Jakey, you're a sterling representative of your alignment. Rush would be proud. This has to be one of the greatest non-sequiturs I've ever encountered.

Mid east democracy in not worth one US life. If you go to war go to destroy your enemy and win. If you aren't willing to do your enemy  one more than he will do you, don't go to war.

Yup. Lyndie England is worth more than a mere arab. She couldn't read, but at least she could vote.

Jakey, the US Armed Forces isn't a collective of the proudest and bravest in the world, it's just a massive social welfare programme. It's the device by which your government disposes of the stupid, poor and criminal minded. Cannon fodder babe. That's what they are, and I include the Marines in that. At least if Jose or Elijah has his brains spread across the thankless plains of a foreign land, he won't be waving a piece in your face at WalMart or languishing on death row.

And his parents will get a neat medal and nice new flag.

MtD

Offline Dachshund

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2006, 08:53:57 AM »
Bush and his crew could care less about democracy in the Middle East unless you spell democracy o - i - l. Being the cynic that I am I can't help but wonder why terrorist alerts always happen prior to American elections? Republicans win, when Americans are frightened.

Offline jack

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  • fomerly the loser known as Jake
Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2006, 08:56:53 AM »
lassie, Syria and Iran are attacking Israel. Israel is defending itself. Its too late to argue about whether Israel should be a state, that horse is out of the barn. Israel is a legitimate state and it is defending itself. They are at war. Ceasefires only enable Iran and Syria to more troops and arms into Lebanon.
I predict by the end of the day there will be blogs in the US with stories of how todays events in London were really hatched by Rove and Bush to make the Dems look like idiots for opposing surveillance of US/Overseas communications.

Offline scotslassie

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  • Posts: 82
Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2006, 09:00:37 AM »
I dont agree with either side tbh Jack- I think both are as bad as each other. Unfortunately Bush especially likes to make out the " big bad men" are trying to stop HIS views on what the world should be like- have you noticed in press conferences its all about him?

He loves himself, he wants noterioty, he wants everyone to think and act like him, unfortunately he has got many people who do.

When he speaks he reminds me of a little kid in a playground- But miss, they are picking on me, the big baddies, they are being nasty to me

I cant stand it, sorry- it has nothing to do with his religion, even his voice, its just what he does. He is a manipulating idiot of the highest order.

Offline scotslassie

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2006, 09:01:13 AM »
Oh yeah and good old Tony is his little sidekick standing nodding his head to the teacher- Yeah miss, its all true

Offline Matty the Damned

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  • Ninja Please
Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2006, 09:02:03 AM »
Matty, W appeases the terrorists with his attempt to bring democracy to the middle east. I was for the war because I thought we were going in to destroy our enemy not bring democracy to them. We led the horse to water, it ain't drinking.  Bush should have attacked Syria and Iran two years ago, not in attempt to bring democracy to them but to crush them. Syria and Iran are waging war on Israel now via Hezbollah. Its really difficult to argue this with people who think we are the bad guys.

So tell me Jakey, is this the Democracy that prevailed in Florida in 2000? You know, when Dubya rang Jeb and had him shred all those pesky nigra ballots?

MtD

Offline jack

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  • fomerly the loser known as Jake
Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2006, 09:05:04 AM »
Matty, I cant respond to any of your post except your attack on our military which is in effect an attack on every US citizen. If our military is just a collection ground for the homeless and hopless, why did my nephew just turn down a 6 figure job on Wall Street to join the Army?  Personally, I think he is crazy. Why is my niece, summa cum laude from an Ivy league school, in her 8th year in the navy.
I know you are intelligent and I can only hope you are just trying to get me in a lather. You have.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2006, 09:06:01 AM »
lassie, Syria and Iran are attacking Israel. Israel is defending itself. Its too late to argue about whether Israel should be a state, that horse is out of the barn. Israel is a legitimate state and it is defending itself. They are at war. Ceasefires only enable Iran and Syria to more troops and arms into Lebanon.
I predict by the end of the day there will be blogs in the US with stories of how todays events in London were really hatched by Rove and Bush to make the Dems look like idiots for opposing surveillance of US/Overseas communications.

Bingo Jake...Lord knows this administration has never lied to us before. Neocons are jumping up and down  thanking Allah.

Yesterday Whitehouse spokesman Tony Snow ( Fox News fame ) stated voting for democrats would lead to another 9/11.

Amazing whenever Democrats start gaining (Lamont) the terror level goes up.

Offline Matty the Damned

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  • Ninja Please
Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2006, 09:20:35 AM »
Matty, I cant respond to any of your post except your attack on our military which is in effect an attack on every US citizen. If our military is just a collection ground for the homeless and hopless, why did my nephew just turn down a 6 figure job on Wall Street to join the Army?  Personally, I think he is crazy. Why is my niece, summa cum laude from an Ivy league school, in her 8th year in the navy.
I know you are intelligent and I can only hope you are just trying to get me in a lather. You have.


Why did they join Jakey? Because they chose to join. I don't recall there being a draft in this. If your niece and nephew don't want to get their heads blown off by the infidel, probably they should have used their sparkling degrees to secure positions as cubicle monkeys with one of America's finer corporate employers.

As I recall, Dubya was a Skull and Bones man. The fucker can barely read and yet he got into Yale, so please save me the "Ivy League summa cum laude" crap. Frankly, if your nephew turned down a six figure job on Wall Street to eat lead in a foreign land for Dick Cheney I suspect academic achievement in the US is based on something other than merit.

Just sayin'

MtD

Offline Biggums

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2006, 09:36:57 AM »
Jack,

Don't get sucked into this thing trying to defend your nephew and niece.  There will always be those who do not understand honor or a sense of duty for they have none themselves. 
44 year old gay man .......just broke up with the only man I've ever really loved.

You can love completely without complete understanding.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2006, 09:41:20 AM »
Jack,

Don't get sucked into this thing trying to defend your nephew and niece.  There will always be those who do not understand honor or a sense of duty for they have none themselves.


Getting whopped in the Gay Christian thread still stings your passive-aggressive butt, doesn't it Biggums?

;D

Kisses,

MtD

Offline Dachshund

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2006, 09:44:08 AM »
Jack,

Don't get sucked into this thing trying to defend your nephew and niece.  There will always be those who do not understand honor or a sense of duty for they have none themselves. 


GEORGE W. BUSH

Offline penguin

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2006, 09:51:19 AM »
Islam will be the cause of the third world war. As you say Johnny: tolerance is a two way street and muslims are the least tolerant people in the world. Do you remember the demostration in London with hundreds of muslims saying we are the cancer of Islam?. What are they doing in London or the occidental world then? Why dont they go back to their countries to live in tents on the desert again? That is what they deserve.
The catholic Kings did very well in Spain when they got rid of all the muslims.

i'm sorry, respect to your opinion n all, but i don't think this is appropriate, especially the last sentence. Just hatred, nastiness, not what this site is about.

Kate

Offline Biggums

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2006, 09:56:40 AM »
Matt,

Nah, I didn't feel I got whopped as you call it in the other thread.  I do not look at each discussion in here as some game in which there is a winner and a loser.  And even if I was the only person in the forum who believed in my God or my country, I would stand firm and would not feel I lost.  You have some really good things to say at times, but more often than not you resort to attacking others on a personal level, another's faith, Jack's family, etc.  That just doesn't seem worth it so you can sign-off each day feeling you whopped someone half way around the world with your mental prowess.
44 year old gay man .......just broke up with the only man I've ever really loved.

You can love completely without complete understanding.

Offline blondbeauty

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2006, 10:07:55 AM »
Kate, its part of spanish history. The same kings that discovered America sent the muslims back to where they belonged.
A soon as muslims show some respect for us I will show respect for them.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2006, 10:11:17 AM by blondbeauty »
The only member in these forums approved by WINBA: World International Nail and Beauty Association.
Epstein Barr +; CMV +; Toxoplasmosis +; HIV-1 +.
Counts when starting treatment:
V.L.:80.200 copies. CD4: 25%=503
Started Sustiva-Truvada 14/August/2006
Last V.L.count (Oct 2013): Undetectable
Last CD4 count (OCT 2013): 52%= 933

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2006, 10:23:04 AM »

Nah, I didn't feel I got whopped as you call it in the other thread. 

Good for you kid! A positive outlook is a beneficial thing and all that.

I do not look at each discussion in here as some game in which there is a winner and a loser.  And even if I was the only person in the forum who believed in my God or my country, I would stand firm and would not feel I lost.


When all else is lost, you can rely on the Manifest Destiny. I bet that's what Dubya whispers to Laura at night. Or is it Condi? Nah, it'd be Laura - miscegenation and all. You know what they say, Connecticut born, but Texas bred.

You have some really good things to say at times, but more often than not you resort to attacking others on a personal level, another's faith, Jack's family, etc.


Yeah, that's the way, you've busted me. I'm just a vulnerable, damaged heart beating under a hard exterior. It's all a show. I need someone to love me. Could it be you who reaches out to me? God knows, I can't resist a puppy dog.

Nevertheless, it wasn't me who brought Jakey's family (or his faith for what that's worth) into play. If you cleaned the patriotic crud out of your teary eyes and read this thread, you'd see it was Jake (Jack) who did that. But details and the facts were never your strong point were they Biggums? That's what screwed you in the Gay Christian thread.

That just doesn't seem worth it so you can sign-off each day feeling you whopped someone half way around the world with your mental prowess.

Ouch! That stung! Such wisdom should be on a desk calendar.

MtD

Offline clarke

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2006, 10:49:52 AM »
Good Lord,

how did this degenerate from news about a united attack using liquid bombs to attacking religion and those who beliefs?  WTH is wrong with ya'll?  >:(

Seems to me some of you either forgot (or aren't old enough) to remember Viet Nam and how things happened there (kids, women with grenades/bombs, our guys attacking civilians).

War, "police actions" or whatever suxors for all concerned (except for those who cause it).

There are generally fanatics on both side (anyone here old enough to remember the Cold War?).

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2006, 10:59:21 AM »
Good Lord,

how did this degenerate from news about a united attack using liquid bombs to attacking religion and those who beliefs?  WTH is wrong with ya'll?

Yeah, you're right Clarke, somewhere along the line we all forgot about the love. Shame on us. Still, I don't think you have to resort to blasphemy to make your point. Cuss words make the Baby Jesus cry and all that.

Seems to me some of you either forgot (or aren't old enough) to remember Viet Nam and how things happened there (kids, women with grenades/bombs, our guys attacking civilians).

I wasn't there, but I'll hazard a guess. America stepped in to clean up the mistakes of a failed european empire. Millions of Vietnamese died. As a result hundreds of thousands of angry American veterans claim benefits and abuse Vicodin. Were you one of them?

It's a mad world.

War, "police actions" or whatever suxors for all concerned (except for those who cause it).

There are generally fanatics on both side (anyone here old enough to remember the Cold War?).


Well at least brainless truisms aren't restricted to the Living WIth forum.

MtD

Offline clarke

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2006, 11:18:24 AM »
Ummm, France was there first in the 50's to assist keeping back Communist forces in China (supplied by Russia) from invading.  Then it got turned over to the U.S.A. before the 60's after France took some serious butt-whippings.

I wasn't "one of them" but I knew many who were, and came back to a very hostile America (thank you Jane Fonda  :P ).  Many of them were also messed up psycologically from what they either went thru and/or saw.  It was a messed up situation for all concerned, us and the Vietnamese.  We left them with an extremely hostile leadership who was very willing to commit to what Mao had done in his own country.  Even tho' some refer to it as the Viet Nam War, it never was a "war".  More like a "Police Action" or "Conflict", but "war" was never declared.

sorry 'bout the "cussing", didn't know 7734 was a cussword  :o  ;D

Offline Grasshopper

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2006, 11:26:57 AM »
Kate, its part of spanish history. The same kings that discovered America sent the muslims back to where they belonged.
A soon as muslims show some respect for us I will show respect for them.

And what happend to the jews living in Spain and Portugal around the time that "The same kings that discovered America sent the muslims back to where they belonged" ?

By the way, as I recall from history lessons that during the Moorish occupation the arabs lived on reasonable foot alongside with the jews on the Iberian peninsula.

So tell me, who were the ones not showing respect or not being tollerant ?

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2006, 11:28:32 AM »
Even tho' some refer to it as the Viet Nam War, it never was a "war".  More like a "Police Action" or "Conflict", but "war" was never declared.

Yeah well you tell that to the Vietnamese who were napalmed, or the Vietnam Veterans who to this day suffer from post traumatic stress disorder.

"Oh really? It was a police action and not a war? I guess I should stop drinking diesel from the pump and bashing my wife!"

Because legal niceities (ie 'police action' not 'war') make it all better.

For the record the only other country to join America in the "police action" was my country.

MtD

Offline Biggums

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2006, 11:50:34 AM »
Yeah, that's the way, you've busted me. I'm just a vulnerable, damaged heart beating under a hard exterior. It's all a show. I need someone to love me. Could it be you who reaches out to me? God knows, I can't resist a puppy dog.


Awww Matt, I do love you............even if you are an arrogant ass!  But you already knew that didn't you?  Just so you know though, this puppy dog has been eating too much Purina and needs to go on a diet.
44 year old gay man .......just broke up with the only man I've ever really loved.

You can love completely without complete understanding.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #37 on: August 10, 2006, 12:47:43 PM »
Hell you are all being to nice. I would have pulled out our troops and our allies and dropped a bomb on their sorry asses.

Offline manchesteruk

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #38 on: August 10, 2006, 03:23:06 PM »
I hate the way people have the view that all muslims are terrorists it's rubbish.  Just look at it from an iraqi's point of view an estimated 40,000 civilian deaths with other sources suggesting as many as 100,000 and still rising at a rapid rate do you expect them to thank America and the UK for that?  Hearing stories like this doesnt help either:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5253160.stm
Diagnosed 11/05

"Life is too important to be taken seriously" Oscar Wilde

Offline ademas

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #39 on: August 10, 2006, 03:44:49 PM »
Hell you are all being to nice. I would have pulled out our troops and our allies and dropped a bomb on their sorry asses.

And just where would we drop these bombs?
The terrorist suspects arrested today are homegrown citizens of the UK of Pakistani descent.

Offline ACinKC

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #40 on: August 10, 2006, 03:55:37 PM »


But Jakey, I thought you, Dubya and the rest of the hawks in the US had risen up to stop the terrorists! Or was that just crazy talk?

:-*

MtD

Matty ANYTHING that comes out of this administrations mouth is CRAZY TALK!!!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline ACinKC

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #41 on: August 10, 2006, 04:08:42 PM »
Has anyone else ever thought about all the REALLY nice glass sculptures that we could have if we nuked a desert country!

 I mean CMON, each one of us in the "WESTERN" world could put one on our mantles as a reminder of the hard times!
LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safely
in a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,
thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT A
RIDE!!!

Offline MSPspud

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #42 on: August 10, 2006, 04:16:06 PM »
Has anyone else ever thought about all the REALLY nice glass sculptures that we could have if we nuked a desert country!

 I mean CMON, each one of us in the "WESTERN" world could put one on our mantles as a reminder of the hard times!

Ok, now that's funny!   :P (guilty grin)

Offline alisenjafi

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #43 on: August 10, 2006, 04:20:02 PM »
Just read this from the David Byrne site- made me think of this thread
http://journal.davidbyrne.com/


8.2.06: American Madrassas
Saw a screening of a documentary called Jesus Camp. It focuses on a woman preacher (Becky Fischer) who indoctrinates children in a summer camp in North Dakota. Right wing political agendas and slogans are mixed with born again rituals that end with most of the kids in tears. of release and joy, they would claim — the children are not physically abused. The kids are around 9 or 10 years old, recruited from various churches, and are pliant willing receptacles. They are instructed that evolution is being forced upon us by evil Godless secular humanists, that abortion must be stopped at all costs, that we must form an “army” to defeat the Godless influences, that we must band together to insure that the right judges and politicians get into the courts and office and that global warming is a lie. (This last one is a puzzle — how did accepting the evidence for climate change and global warming become anti-Jesus? Did someone simply conflate all corporate agendas with Jesus and God and these folks accept that? Would Jesus drive an SUV? Is every conclusion responsible scientists make now suspect?)
Awareness of the rest of the world is curtailed — one can only view or read that which agrees with the agenda.
Naturally, the kids being so young, there is no questioning of any kind — they simply accept what grownups Fischer and the others say — they get pumped up, agitated, they memorize right wing and Jesus slogans and shout them back obediently. They become part of a support group — a warm, safe, comfortable feeling for anyone, for any social animal, for you and me. No one strays or gets out of line even the slightest bit. (More on peer pressure later.)
There were some perfect sound bites — at one point Pastor Fischer instructs the little ones that they should be willing to die for Christ, and the little ones obediently agree. She may even use the word martyr, which has a shocking echo in the Middle East. I can see future suicide bombers for Jesus — the next step will be learning to fly planes into buildings. Of course, the grownups would say, “Oh no, we’re not like them” — but they admit that the principal difference is simply that “We’re right.”
In another scene a cardboard cutout of George W. Bush, with his trademark smirking smile, is brought out and the children are urged to identify — many of the little ones come forward and reverently touch his cardboard hands.
I kept saying to myself, “O.K., these are the Christian version of the Madrassas (those Islamic religious instructional schools in Pakistan and elsewhere, often financed by Saudi oil money)...so both sides are pretty much equally sick, there’s a balance." (Although it must be said the Madrassas provide some regular education and literacy where no other option is available, they do community work that is non-religious...and they take in aimless troubled youth.)
They want to turn the U.S. into the "Christian" version of Iran or Saudi Arabia. A theocracy. The separation between church and state, already shaky with Bush in charge, is under full frontal assault by this bunch — and they are well organized, too. The megachurches tell their parishioners who to vote for, what judges to support, letters to write, and where they should stand on the issues. Well, we all do this to some extent — even in casual chats with friends we attempt to deduce and arrive at a consensus of opinion; a sloppy democratic give-and-take on any number of subjects often gives way to agreement. But this is top-down messaging — no discussion allowed. There’s a scene in the Colorado Springs megachurch run by the Preacher who talks with Bush once a week — same deal as with the kids, only most of the attendees are pliant adults.
What is it about Colorado Springs? Littleton is right next door to these megachurches. I think they are 2 sides to the same coin. One breeds the other. The dissatisfaction and alienation that leads folks to join this weird non-“Christian” Christianity (much the same has been said about fundamentalist Islamic groups, that they are a perversion of the Islam of the Prophet) leads down a road to both Littleton and Colorado Springs — and in the sense that they allow the mind to be pleasantly emptied, they are identical.
The documentary juxtaposes scenes of an Air America radio call-in guy, a former preacher himself — who rants against this version of Christianity. These scenes seemed almost unnecessary, as to many of us in the audience Becky was pretty much indicting herself, though she wouldn’t see it that way. But they did give some relief from the scary view of the heartland as harboring an army in formation. Zombies from the wheat fields.
Sad, as the heartland and areas untouched by the big city sicknesses are also the home of much practical down-to-earth wisdom. Wisdom borne of the land and of experience, unsullied by the trendy political and ethical philosophies that periodically sweep the urban jungles.
When one sees religion perverted — in the U.S. or in Israel, Pakistan, Afghanistan or India, one wonders if the spiritual seeds, planted by visionaries and enlightened prophets like Jesus, Mohammed, Marx and others, are just too volatile for large societies to deal with. One asks if religious visions are better off kept as a personal thing, or at least confined to a small group — otherwise the death and destruction sown by and in the name of religions more or less balances out their moral and personal virtues (which are many.)


"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline jack

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #44 on: August 10, 2006, 04:41:47 PM »
matty, our entire military is volunteer,we have no draft.
Many young americans choose to serve in the military,and many have college degrees.Some join out of a sense of duty, some join cause you retire after 30years with a great pension, some join cause its a way to move up, some join cause its their only opportunity. Many of these people have a level of responsibility in their 20s in the military that an individual would work 30 years to attain in the corporate world.
My niece was  head engineer on an Aegis Cruiser. She ran the ship. She was in the first attack group on Iraq and spent 18 months there. She was also one of the first US service people delivering supplies to the victims of the tsunami. Very inspiring stuff. S he is attending law school now while working in the Pentagon.
My nephew will be special forces. I have no idea where he will be eating. His father was navy and his father was navy. They are buried in Arlington. Its what they do. I dont know why they do,but I sure am glad they do.
I agree that W sounds like a retard, but remember he had a higher grade average than Algore.
http://www.frankcaliendo.com/merchandise/preview/Frank-Caliendo-Giggles-Shakey-Cam-DVD-8-Minute-Preview.php

Offline cmhjeff

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #45 on: August 10, 2006, 05:13:00 PM »
I've thought about Trai all day since I heard this on the news this morning.  I hope he is safe where ever he is at.

Offline DanielMark

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2006, 05:26:25 PM »
I may get flamed for this, but to my thinking both sides of this conflict are in the wrong. Both are doing evil and it matters not to me who threw the first stone.

Perpetuating killing is not justifiable in my mind, and that's what this is.

Besides, putting all things into realistic perspective there’s not a thing I can do to stop any of it.



Now where did I put that magic wand . . .

Daniel
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Offline alisenjafi

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2006, 06:53:57 PM »
so because we have been indoctrinated into Christianity  we are supposed to root for people who cheer at the death of Mathew Shepard, protest NY C firemen etc. Christians can be juust as bad, look at what they did in Salem.
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline jack

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2006, 07:24:23 PM »
Salem?? Are you on drugs? Let me ask you this, if you are gay, would you rather live in the US or in a muslim mid east country?  Case Closed.
It has nothing to do with Christianity. The muslim terrorists want us dead because our way of life threatens their way of life.  Free markets and technology are spreading the seeds and hope of freedom through out the dictatorships of the mid east, the dictators only hope to hold their power is to destroy us. Of course if they destroy us they will have no one to buy their oil and they will collapse anyways.  The terrorists do not hate us because we are a "christian" country, they hate us because we exist. There is nothing you can do about it, its kill or be killed.

Offline blondbeauty

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #49 on: August 10, 2006, 07:26:49 PM »
Grasshopper, you don´t know much about Spanish history.
About the established myth of three different religions living peacefully I should say that the relationship between Spain and Islam was of enormous tension and full of violence and wars. In the VIII century, the invasion of Spain by the Muslims ended the most rich culture in Occident and turned Spaniards into second class citizens in their own country, they were slaves of the Muslims or were exiled. During the following centuries (under the Muslim occupation) the Iberian peninsula was the scenery of a fight for the national freedom between the north, willing to recover the national unity against the Muslim occupants that were unable to create a stable political order and suffering continuous northafrican invasions.
Nowadays, Islam is a big threaten for Spain: immigration, terrorism (192 dead on the trains two years ago) or the Moroccan demands of certain Spanish cities.
Anyway the only bad guys here are the terrorist, and trying to find a justification is what they want, and proves our weaknes to them. We are letting win the battle because we feel guilty.
Muslism find the Saria the only good way of ruling the world and the main purpose of Islam is to extend all over the world killing if necessary.
In the following picture the Muslims surrender to the Catholic Kings: Isabel & Fernando.


[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: August 10, 2006, 07:54:54 PM by blondbeauty »
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Offline frenchpat

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #50 on: August 10, 2006, 07:36:29 PM »
Hi all,

I won't dive into a political analysis of the middle-east situation, I do not have the competence for that.
Why?
Because I do not feel that the information at my disposal is reliable enough. I feel that I need more than a kneejerk reaction from politicians, the media or the usual "experts" to form an informed opinion.
Time is a critical element in a world where no one seems to have any. A 90 seconds piece about the war, however well crafted, is nothing but a news pill that is far from enough to expose the complexity of a situation. The result of this is a news program which is an emotional roller coaster that induces mostly fear. And I work in TV...

I also believe in the saying that in any war the first victim is truth.

There are a few things I consider when learning about bad news as today's, and none have to do with conspiracy theories; one is that I always ask myself whom benefits from the crime? In the short term, the long term? Then I turn to things that men who lived through other conflicts have said, things that make me reflect because I think they somehow hold an element of truth. Here are a few:


When the leaders speak of peace
the people know that war is coming
When the leaders curse war,
the mobilization order is already written out.

Bertolt Brecht


The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.
That is easy.  All you have to do is tell them they are being
attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and
exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.

Hermann Goering


The jaws of power are always open to devour, and her arm is always
stretched out, if possible, to destroy the freedom of thinking,
speaking, and writing.

John Adams



When a long train of abuses and usurpations  evinces a design to
reduce the people under absolute despotism, it is their right,
it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

Thomas Jefferson


To me these reflexions can be applied to all sides involved, shedding a better light on a conflict we're all asked to buy in pre packaged form.

Lastly,

Non violence of the strong is infinitely braver than their violence - Gandhi

Pat


edited for typos
People have the power - Patti Smith

Offline RapidRod

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #51 on: August 10, 2006, 07:44:02 PM »
ACinKC, I was thinking more of a glass skating rink.

ademas, since we are only in Iraq at the moment. I believe that would be the first place I would drop the bomb. Then Syria, and Iran to follow... I wouldn't lose a bit of sleep nuking them.

Offline alisenjafi

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #52 on: August 10, 2006, 07:48:39 PM »
Jake the christians want me dead for being gay as well. You see them all happy because of Mathew Shepards death. Coming to NY C saying protesting the fire dept. And their opposition for equal rights for gays along with the military.
I don't have much respect that needs to use lemmings to get their desired results- christians or muslims
« Last Edit: August 10, 2006, 07:59:32 PM by alisenjafi »
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline Teresa

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2006, 07:51:54 PM »
alisenjafi,

I am a Christian and I can assure you that I did not cheer at the murder of Matthew Shephard. I have never protested a NYC fireman or any other fireman.

I dont want you dead!. I would be very sad if you died.

Not all Christians are bad as some like to portray us.

Hugs
Teresa
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Offline jack

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #54 on: August 10, 2006, 07:55:53 PM »
frenchpat, read your post and I have no idea what your point is,but you described today's news as bad news. It was only bad news for the radical muslim terrorists and the states and forces that support them. Today news was excellent news for anyone interested in freedom from these monsters and freedom in general.  The good guys won today, thousands of lives were saved today.


Offline blondbeauty

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #55 on: August 10, 2006, 07:57:08 PM »
Alisenjafi this is not a religious war. This is terrorism. Terrorists are murderers and the rest of us are victims. It is so simple. You wont be killed for being gay in any christian country but you will be killed in any islamic one.
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Offline jack

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #56 on: August 10, 2006, 08:04:31 PM »
Alisen, I know of no Christinian who wants gays dead. I know of no person who wants homosexuals dead.If so they aren't Christian. Now there are Christians and non Christians who don't approve of homosexuality and homosexuals and think the whole thing is disgusting.
I asked if you were better off in the US or in a muslim mid east country as a homosexual. You cant honestly say you would be better off in a muslim mid east country,can you?
Speaking of  protests, does anyone in the middle east work? It seems they always have a crowd of thousands for riots and protests everyday.

Offline blondbeauty

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« Last Edit: August 10, 2006, 08:31:40 PM by blondbeauty »
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Offline J.R.E.

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #58 on: August 10, 2006, 08:59:14 PM »
.

[
Jakey, the US Armed Forces isn't a collective of the proudest and bravest in the world, it's just a massive social welfare programme. It's the device by which your government disposes of the stupid, poor and criminal minded. Cannon fodder babe. That's what they are, and I include the Marines in that. At least if Jose or Elijah has his brains spread across the thankless plains of a foreign land, he won't be waving a piece in your face at WalMart or languishing on death row.

And his parents will get a neat medal and nice new flag.

MtD
[/quote]



I wasn't going to reply, because obviously you feel you are on a run, But As someone who has served in the Armed services, and did his time, I take great offense to this statement, and every American on here should also. Now, rake my ass over the coals.



Ray

 
« Last Edit: August 10, 2006, 09:01:10 PM by J.R.E. »
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
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http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of 8/2514,  t-cells are at 402, Viral load <40

 Current % is at 11%

  
 62 years young.

Offline blondbeauty

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #59 on: August 10, 2006, 09:02:33 PM »
Well said Ray!
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Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #60 on: August 10, 2006, 09:13:34 PM »
I wasn't going to reply, because obviously you feel you are on a run, But As someone who has served in the Armed services, and did his time, I take great offense to this statement, and every American on here should also. Now, rake my ass over the coals.


So you're offended Ray. What of it? Being offended seems to be a favoured hobby of veterans. Why should you be any different? Australia's returned service men and women often break out  the same "I served my country" spiel when they hear something they don't like as well.

It doesn't make my statement any less true.

MtD

Offline alisenjafi

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #61 on: August 10, 2006, 09:13:42 PM »
One just needs to turn on the 700 club, where everything is god's revenge. When the Jews came here to escape Hitler and the christian nation of Germany and Italy's mass killing , this christian nation handed them right back to their deaths.

At the same time white church goers had no problem using African Americans as tree ornaments.
I am sure there are good people who consider themselves Christians or Muslims or Hindus, but that has nothing to who they pray to.

it was the church who split South America into  Portuguese and Spanish lands as they shipped slaves across the Atlantic. Also South American church goers had no problem raiding the islands of the South Pacific killing and raping and taking slaves.


It took Bono to get Christians  to stop turning their backs on people with HIV and I am sure it has more with getting money  and bible bashing than anything else.
So who is behind anti legislation for gays to marry in America ?


http://www.netreach.net/~steed/magdalen.html


"Ireland has suffered a great many tragedies in her long history. There are those we hear of every day — the "Troubles," the great Famine — Irish sorrows and issues we are all familiar with. But hidden beneath the surface, lies a tragedy just as great, just as terrible and just as unimaginable. And it is only just beginning to break through to the light of truth.
It is the story of thousands of Ireland's women...judged "sinners" by the cruel Church-driven society of the 1800's through present day. Their crime? Bearing children out of wedlock...leaving abusive husbands or home situations. The punishment? A lifetime of "penitence" spent in the service of the Sisters of Charity, Mercy, Good Shepherd or other orders, performing domestic chores...harsh, thankless chores such as laundering prison uniforms, cooking, cleaning and caring for elderly nuns or their aging peers, still trapped behind the walls of Ireland's numerous convent laundries, industrial schools and the like.

They are "The Magdalenes," ironically called after Mary the Magdalene, who served her Jesus loyally and was rewarded with his forgiveness and love. No such rewards exist for these "penitents." They were told to forever hide their shame inside these walls, work under harsh, spartan conditions, driven unmercifully by the sisters and often abused by them as well. It is a story Ireland has every right to be ashamed of, which is perhaps why it has only come to light recently.

In 1993, church property held by the Sisters of Charity in Dublin which once served as a convent laundry was to be sold back to the Republic for public use. It was discovered at that time that some 133 graves existed, unmarked, in a cemetery on the convent grounds. The graves belonged to women who had worked in the service of the convent all their lives, buried without notification to possible family...unmarked, unremembered. When the discovery was made, a cry arose in the streets of Dublin...families came forth to identify and claim some of the women as their long-lost daughters, mothers, grandmothers, and sisters. Yet many remained unidentified. At the time of the 1993 discovery, a memorial was established and the remaining, unclaimed bodies were to be cremated and reinterred in the Glasnevin cemetery in Dublin. But a problem arose: an initial exhumation order was given for 133 bodies, yet at time of exhumation, another 22 bodies were discovered. No additional exhumation order was obtained or given, and the 155 bodies were cremated and moved with little fanfare.

In 2003, Irish Times journalist Joe Humphrey revealed there were no death certificates extant for many of these women (and their children, some of whom were also found buried on the High Park grounds). It is and has been illegal in many countries, including Ireland, to fail to report a death. One must wonder why—what has the Church to hide regarding these deaths? The media has been awash with the subject in Ireland. And thanks to Peter Mullan's excellent The Magdalene Sisters, the story of the women has spread worldwide.

In addition to graves gone unmarked, so too, living women go "unmarked," languishing still inside the convent walls—unclaimed by their respective families as many were given false names upon admittance, making their true identification enormously difficult. Even in death these women suffered callous, inhumane treatment and were robbed of their dignity.

This page is dedicated to the tragedy imposed upon these women by an exceedingly judgmental and harsh Church and society. My own mother spent ten years in the harsh facility at Sunday's Well, Cork.

In a Church and society that seems to hold life as sacred and cherished, I cannot help but wonder what monstrous idealism could spurn fallen women and their fallen daughters for the "crime" of becoming pregnant or of being poor, or for no reason at all? And, in its basest form, has the system perpetuated itself? As a birth mother of a relinquished daughter, now a third generation "Magdalene," I feel compelled to find out. This demeaning treatment of women — of any human — should not be tolerated nor go unpunished itself."

My mom had an aunt that was forced into catholic slave labour.
 You forget you are talking to someone who was raised a christian but learned to think for myself.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2006, 09:20:10 PM by alisenjafi »
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline RapidRod

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #62 on: August 10, 2006, 09:31:52 PM »
Who in the sam hell watches the 700 club. That jerk doesn't speak for me.

Matty, my sister didn't care about the medals my nephew received, nor did she care about the flag or the three spent shells stuffed in the flag. All she wanted was to have her son back. Matty, it's a social welfare program? I would like to know why my nephew was in the Marines then. He didn't need the money. He had a very good paying job.

Offline Life

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #63 on: August 10, 2006, 10:04:30 PM »
Als I know is I got my cave picked out for  me and Will about 15 minutes UP from my house.. :'(

Offline blondbeauty

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #64 on: August 10, 2006, 10:07:53 PM »
alisenjavi...and thats why Islamic terrorism is acceptable!
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Offline David_CA

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #65 on: August 10, 2006, 10:58:40 PM »
Alisen, I know of no Christinian who wants gays dead. I know of no person who wants homosexuals dead.If so they aren't Christian. Now there are Christians and non Christians who don't approve of homosexuality and homosexuals and think the whole thing is disgusting.

Jack, didn't some of the 'Christian extremist' blame the gays and other sinners for 9/11?  Don't forget, the kKK considers themselves as Christians, too.  Unfortunately, the vocal minority often is louder than the silent majority.

David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
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Offline randym431

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #66 on: August 10, 2006, 11:38:48 PM »
This latest would and should not have happened if we were on track with current goals. 5 years after 9/11 and into this war with iraq, a failed policy is a failed policy. Why 'stay the course" when the administration is so off track. These Bin Laden followers should have long been dead and gone, but they are getting stronger. Try to tell a certain GW that...

Offline HIVworker

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #67 on: August 11, 2006, 12:07:13 AM »
I have it on good authority scottslassie that GW Bush supports Hibs FC.

R
NB. Any advice about HIV is given in addition to your own medical advice and not intended to replace it. You should never make clinical decisions based on what anyone says on the internet but rather check with your ID doctor first. Discussions from the internet are just that - Discussions. They may give you food for thought, but they should not direct you to do anything but fuel discussion.

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #68 on: August 11, 2006, 12:15:18 AM »
My partner is a flight attendant for Continental and flew back from Rome today. I'm very glad the plot was foiled. I'm not sure what I would do if he was blown up by terrorists flying over the Atlantic. It's one time when my vivid imagination is not an asset.

As far as Muslims and Christians, Bush and Blair, Iraq and Israel, democrats and republicans and all these topics that people on here get so emotional about... I'm completely apathetic. I have no control over any of that stuff and I'm not wasting neural energy thinking about it.

Offline frenchpat

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #69 on: August 11, 2006, 04:17:48 AM »
frenchpat, read your post and I have no idea what your point is,but you described today's news as bad news. It was only bad news for the radical muslim terrorists and the states and forces that support them. Today news was excellent news for anyone interested in freedom from these monsters and freedom in general.  The good guys won today, thousands of lives were saved today.



Jack,

I guess that my point was about the nature and quality of the information that we, laypeople, have, the information upon which we form an opinion and ultimately end up using when arguing with one another.
If yesterdays news is correct then thousands of lives have been saved and that is a great thing and is indeed good news.

But news are not everything and I refuse to get into a discussion when that is the only source of information.

Believing the news and lacking (momentarily?) more critical sense is what made millions of americans, europeans and others support an invasion they today wished had never happened. There was a day when when we were told that 45 minutes was all it would take for an iraki despot to wipe us off the face of this planet. What is the story now?

I believe we need to take more time to think before we start a debate that gets so heated so quickly that we risk losing friends.

Pat
People have the power - Patti Smith

Offline allopathicholistic

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #70 on: August 11, 2006, 06:21:04 AM »
Found this on the web:

God wants spiritual fruit, not religious nuts!

Offline jack

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  • fomerly the loser known as Jake
Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #71 on: August 11, 2006, 07:03:15 AM »
Frenchpat, people supported the invasion of Iraq for many reasons,one being wmd. Almost every lead Democrat(including clinton and kerry) as well as the entire UN was saying as late as 2000 that Iraq had WMD and had to be stopped. Did they have bad info? Was the WMD shipped off to syria or iran? I have no idea. Personally, I was for the war on Iraq but against the attempts to shape its government.Iraq was artificially constructed by outside forces and should probably be allowed to split up into separate countries. We didn't fight to keep all of Russia together,why here?

If you are gonna view every terrorist plot break -up as some type of conspiracy so Bush and Blair can stay in power ,because if true the reality of situation means the war on terror is successful and strengthens Bush and Blair, you will find conspiracy behind every moment in history.


Offline jack

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  • fomerly the loser known as Jake
Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #72 on: August 11, 2006, 07:17:02 AM »
David, I do remember one of the TV God Guys saying that  homosexuals were responsible for 911. I don't remember him wanting to kill all homosexuals. I am not denying the fact that there are many people who don't like gays or their lifestyle and some of those of people happen to be Christians. These people are a pain the ass. Have some gays been killed by people who say they are Christian because they were gay? yeah. If you would have come out as gay where I went to high school inthe 60s you probably wouldn't have lived through the week, but a nephew of mine who is 18 came out as gay at the same school this past year and it was no big deal. Things are changing.
I also remember Clinton blaming the OKC attack on conservatives. As we know now McNichols spent two months in the Phillipines with Ramsi Yousef,the bomb maker, prior to the OKC attacks. The terror plot broken up yesterday was planning on using the type of bombs that Ramsi had designed in his plot to blow up 12 Asian Jets in the early 90s. Ramsi is also believed to be the source of the info in mid 90s that there were muslims taking flying lessons in the US. Of course the  CIA was not allowed to share this info with the FBI because of the wall between cia and fbi.

Offline alisenjafi

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #73 on: August 11, 2006, 07:22:11 AM »
alisenjavi...and thats why Islamic terrorism is acceptable!
Just saying the christians ain't so christian - I won't defend a group who want me dead because of sexual orientation ( but then again they want everyone dead because they want rapture and not the Blondie song) follow  the thread it isn't that complicated

Who in the sam hell watches the 700 club. That jerk doesn't speak for me.
SO who is watching them and giving them money to have a tv station- just because they don't speak for you doesn't mean there aren't mindless idiots who buy into that shit

How about the the British gov't ,(Ireland, Africa, America, Asia, Australia) the American gov't ( Hawaii, Caribean,Chile)- the French gov't (North Africa)-Italy , African gov'ts China's take over of Tibet..Japan in China... lets face it we need a gay country! Where you are only attacked because of bad sense of style!
Long live the Cathars

NEWS FLASH- FROM HOMELAND SECURITY_ ALL MONEY MEANT FOR NY Security WILL NOW GO TO THE PEPSI CO PLANT IN TOPEKA !  ALL MONEY FOR OTHER MAJOR CITIES ARE NOW DEVERTED INTO DEFENSE OF OTHER BEVERAGE  COMPANIES IN THE MIDWEST
Johnny
« Last Edit: August 11, 2006, 07:26:33 AM by alisenjafi »
"You shut your mouth
how can you say
I go about things the wrong way
I am human and I need to be loved
just like everybody else does"
The Smiths

Offline frenchpat

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #74 on: August 11, 2006, 08:06:49 PM »
Frenchpat, people supported the invasion of Iraq for many reasons,one being wmd. Almost every lead Democrat(including clinton and kerry) as well as the entire UN was saying as late as 2000 that Iraq had WMD and had to be stopped. Did they have bad info? Was the WMD shipped off to syria or iran? I have no idea. Personally, I was for the war on Iraq but against the attempts to shape its government.Iraq was artificially constructed by outside forces and should probably be allowed to split up into separate countries. We didn't fight to keep all of Russia together,why here?

If you are gonna view every terrorist plot break -up as some type of conspiracy so Bush and Blair can stay in power ,because if true the reality of situation means the war on terror is successful and strengthens Bush and Blair, you will find conspiracy behind every moment in history.



Jack,

I'll return the question to you: did YOU have bad info?
I would expect any RESPONSIBLE ADULT HUMAN BEING  who is about to support the slaugther and foly that ANY war is, to seriously ask himself what his own motivations are and what information those are based upon.

"Iraq was artificially constructed by outside forces and should probably be allowed to split up into separate countries."

Well, this could be said for a country you know well: yours! 
Besides, since you say "allowed", you imply no outside intervention for the possible split-up; this is not what I see happening after more than 3 years of chaos, destruction and the needless loss of tens of thousands of human lives. Also, ever heard about "self-determination"?

Your statement about Russia (I suppose you mean the USSR) leaves me gobsmacked: did the west, primarily led by the US, not do everything in its power for over 50 years to destroy it (assuming that the USSR wanted to destroy them)? The goal was attained.
Trouble is the west found itself without enemy... and that is a big problem for a bunch of countries that are rich and top the charts of the biggest arms sales (USA, France, UK, China, Brazil, Israel...oh and Russia of course).

A reminder: Peace is not the absence of war


Two things about your last statement:

1) Any time someone stops an enterprise who's goal it is to destroy human life, it is a good thing for everyone.
2) Although I do believe that all politicians enjoy power I do not think that there is any clear conspiration here. For all I know even they might be very confused, not least by the unplanned consequences of their acts (reread the many changes  over time of "reasons" for invading the country).

And as far as the power politicains have, I never lose sight that we allow them to have it. And if we do that it means that we have a responsibility in how they act.
Check Estienne de La Boétie's essay, "Discourse on voluntary Servitude" written in 1548.

Pat


People have the power - Patti Smith

Offline scotslassie

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #75 on: August 16, 2006, 04:41:22 AM »
I have it on good authority scottslassie that GW Bush supports Hibs FC.

R

Does he know they are a catholic team?

Anyway, I think the whole point of the thread was lost in religion. Yes it is to do with religion on some point, but it is mainly to do with nutters who think they should blow themselves up.

Im glad they foiled it, I just get worried when they say we foiled this one but it will happen  :-[ doesnt give me much hope

Offline jack

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #76 on: August 16, 2006, 05:36:03 AM »
Frenchpat,seems we have a failure to communicate. The US was not formed by outside governments or agencies as Iraq was.
I don't understand your comments on USSR(now Russia).
We may have had bad info on Iraq, but so did everyone else. Everyone thought they had WMD till Bush said he might invade.
As I said I  was for invading Iraq and taking out Saddam, but against hanging around to help shape their government. Instead of invading immediately we spent almost a year cowtowing to the crooks at the UN(who were all taking payoff from Saddam in the food for oil scheme) and letting Colin Powell play diplomat. That delay enabled Saddam to hide or transfer out of country WMD(if he had it and the whole world said he had it up till 2001) and prepare a defense reminiscent of Muhammad Ali's "rope a dope".
Seldom do wars go as planned but because of our lack of guts to completely destroy our enemies in Iraq we are over two years late for the necessary invasion(or carpet bombing) of Iran and Syria.

Offline jay lassiter

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #77 on: August 16, 2006, 07:44:49 AM »
Tony blair and George bush are in such deep shit for their Iraq mess that they frankly need us to be in panic mode for their own political survival.  I am not saying there is no threat, merely suggesting that they require mass hysteria to keep their approval ratings from falling down the toilet in an election year.

Think about it, you get to the airport and are told "Yes sir, we think you might have highly explosive liquids in your possession that could kill thousands of Americans and blow up an entire airplane.

So please pour the liquid out in front of these hundreds of passengers, including that small baby just three feet behind you, and into this large bucket mixed with all sorts of other unknown and possibly explosive (and reactive) liquids, including alcohol, peroxide, acids, and more. Yeah, that would be the smart way to dispose of suspected terrorist explosives."
WTF?

Offline jack

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #78 on: August 16, 2006, 08:13:23 AM »
WTF? Its because we dont have the stomach to profile.  We have become more concerned about what people think about us than operating our security in an efficient and intelligent manner.  If we were only searching Muslims and middle east types as we should be doing, the libs and media would have a hissy fit, so to avoid this we search grandpa and grandpa and waste billions. And the fucking tsa swiped my brand new Tag in the Ft.Myers airport. Its a real mess.

Geo  is deep shit? Who cares, he isn't running again and oppositions only solution is to appease and mollycoddle.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #79 on: August 16, 2006, 08:32:23 AM »
WTF? Its because we dont have the stomach to profile.  We have become more concerned about what people think about us than operating our security in an efficient and intelligent manner.  If we were only searching Muslims and middle east types as we should be doing, the libs and media would have a hissy fit, so to avoid this we search grandpa and grandpa and waste billions. And the fucking tsa swiped my brand new Tag in the Ft.Myers airport. Its a real mess.

Geo  is deep shit? Who cares, he isn't running again and oppositions only solution is to appease and mollycoddle.

Okay Jake, we get it. Everyone knows your position...and quite frankly it has become tedious and redundant. I for one have lost any interest in debating you, and as you can see by the lack of interest in your posts, so has everyone else. So today I issue what I call my Jake Manifesto..."In the interest of my sanity I will no longer read or respond to a Jake posting."

Peace,
Hal :-X 

Offline jay lassiter

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #80 on: August 16, 2006, 08:38:35 AM »
WTF? Its because we dont have the stomach to profile.  We have become more concerned about what people think about us than operating our security in an efficient and intelligent manner.  If we were only searching Muslims and middle east types as we should be doing, the libs and media would have a hissy fit, so to avoid this we search grandpa and grandpa and waste billions. And the fucking tsa swiped my brand new Tag in the Ft.Myers airport. Its a real mess.

Geo  is deep shit? Who cares, he isn't running again and oppositions only solution is to appease and mollycoddle.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #81 on: August 16, 2006, 10:08:38 AM »
My fear is not bombs on a plane.

http://www.snakesonaplane.com/
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Lwood

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #82 on: August 16, 2006, 10:18:50 AM »
Jonathan,
thats reason enough to bring your Ferrets with you... furry little bodyguards. 
Now you know the Real reason that there are bars in Airports.
"Fortunately, I Keep My T Cells Numbered For Just Such An Emergency"
  -Either Foghorn Leghorn or Johnny Cash

Offline frenchpat

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Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #83 on: August 16, 2006, 10:42:34 AM »
Frenchpat,seems we have a failure to communicate. The US was not formed by outside governments or agencies as Iraq was.
I don't understand your comments on USSR(now Russia).
We may have had bad info on Iraq, but so did everyone else. Everyone thought they had WMD till Bush said he might invade.
As I said I  was for invading Iraq and taking out Saddam, but against hanging around to help shape their government. Instead of invading immediately we spent almost a year cowtowing to the crooks at the UN(who were all taking payoff from Saddam in the food for oil scheme) and letting Colin Powell play diplomat. That delay enabled Saddam to hide or transfer out of country WMD(if he had it and the whole world said he had it up till 2001) and prepare a defense reminiscent of Muhammad Ali's "rope a dope".
Seldom do wars go as planned but because of our lack of guts to completely destroy our enemies in Iraq we are over two years late for the necessary invasion(or carpet bombing) of Iran and Syria.


Jack,

the world I live in seems to be much more complex than the one you describe. My world and life are not defined by the binary influence of GOOD or EVIL. My world, however happy or sad, sounds more like a symphony than a two-tone siren.

A failure to communicate? My english is not perfect but I don't think it is the issue and I don't wish to have a reasonable debate with you anymore for this seems impossible.

Pat
People have the power - Patti Smith

Offline jack

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  • fomerly the loser known as Jake
Re: bombs on planes?
« Reply #84 on: August 16, 2006, 06:36:19 PM »
Hal, now you know how I feel. But I did shoot 74 today so I am very happy and hope all the mongrels in the middle east blow each other up. Its all they are good at. My first dog was a fucking dachshund. We named him after our rich neighbors chauffeur. I hated that dog but loved the chauffeur.

Frenchpat, I am happy that you and your world are so complex. I told my wife if she ever made me go to the symphony again I would divorce her and I wont wear diapers.
I was not commenting on your English with "failure to communicate", and you proved we do have a failure here. Your English seems fine to me. Its a famous line from the movie "cool hand luke". I apologize if you misunderstood me(which would just be another illustration of our failure to communicate). Do you live in France? Where?

I think my lexapro is backfiring. All this war and terror crap is really stressing me out and causing me to screw up at my job and lose much money. Time for some Nyquil on the rocks.

 


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