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Author Topic: Criminalization  (Read 6216 times)

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Offline xman

  • Member
  • Posts: 289
Criminalization
« on: May 27, 2009, 09:58:01 PM »
I just found this article on thebody.com page. I have no words to comment. What hurts me most is the ignorance of the judge and the laws in general. As I said in another thread HIV is not more dangerous today than chronic hepatitis or HPV. But there's not a single sentence applied for a person that infected a partner with any of this viruses.

http://www.thebody.com/content/art51841.html

Iowa Man Sentenced to 25 Years for Not Disclosing His HIV Status

By Myles Helfand

May 20, 2009

Nick Clayton Rhoades, a 34-year-old HIV-positive man from Iowa, has been sentenced to 25 years in prison after pleading guilty to a charge of not disclosing his status to another man before having sex with him, according to the WCF Courier. There was no mention regarding whether protection was used. In addition to his lengthy sentence, Rhoades must register as a sex offender, enter a sex offender treatment program, face lifetime parole, pay court costs and restitution, and for the next five years avoid all contact with the man he exposed to HIV.

As Judge Bradley Harris pronounced Rhoades' sentence, the maximum possible for this class of crime, he said to Rhoades, "You don't look like most of our criminals that sit here, but the risk is still there, just like if you would have shot a gun." Rhoades himself concurred with this statement, saying that living with HIV was like "carrying a concealed weapon."

In a statement to the court, Rhoades' accuser, who ultimately tested negative for HIV, asserted that he "should have had the right to choose whether to be intimate with someone who was HIV positive." Instead, he said that Rhoades deliberately lied about having no sexually transmitted infections: "He lied online, and he also lied to me in person when I asked him directly if he was 'clean,'" the man said. Rhoades claimed that he didn't remember discussing his HIV status with the man, and that his judgment may have been clouded because he drank heavily and took prescription drugs before having sex.

Rhoades expressed remorse for exposing someone else to HIV without their knowledge. "I always wanted to be part of the solution, and not part of the problem," Rhoades said. "Clearly, I've fallen short in this case."

There's also a comment that's shocking:

Comment by: RSH (Philadelphia, PA) Wed., May. 27, 2009 at 8:41 am EDT
I agree with the sentence. It's more important to be closed minded to this virus and punish the people who are unfortunate to have it in any way you can. After all it's their fault they have it. Right? Hopefully this will help prevent society from making advances toward understanding and a cure. Let's stay in the dark ages as long as we can.

About the sentence I don't understand where's the prove of not disclosing? Also if I did'nt miss something the accusing person is not infected!

If this stigmatizations and criminalizations continues nobody will go testing anymore.

Happy for not living in the USA!
« Last Edit: May 27, 2009, 10:11:35 PM by xman »
sign the petition launched by the aids policy project addressed to the nih aimed to increase the money needed to find the cure:

http://www.aidspolicyproject.org/petition_for_the_nih

we can make a difference and we need to fight. please support them! it doesn't cost you anything. they need it now more than ever!

Offline David_CA

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,246
  • Joined: March 2006
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2009, 12:28:45 PM »
X,

As for being happy that you don't live in the US... I don't know where you live; you have no info in your profile.  Such cases have had similar outcomes in various European countries, Australia, etc.  Ignorance is not only found in the US.

Quote
There's also a comment that's shocking:
Quote
Comment by: RSH (Philadelphia, PA) Wed., May. 27, 2009 at 8:41 am EDT
I agree with the sentence. It's more important to be closed minded to this virus and punish the people who are unfortunate to have it in any way you can. After all it's their fault they have it. Right? Hopefully this will help prevent society from making advances toward understanding and a cure. Let's stay in the dark ages as long as we can.

I don't read anything that indicates that RSH believes this.  To the contrary, this comment is totally sarcastic.

David
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
11-06-07 CD4 570 @30.0% VL 140
02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
You must be the change you want to see in the world.  Mahatma Gandhi

Offline a2z

  • Member
  • Posts: 198
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2009, 09:57:37 AM »
l. As I said in another thread HIV is not more dangerous today than chronic hepatitis or HPV. But there's not a single sentence applied for a person that infected a partner with any of this viruses.

Really!?  So you think there is a higher rate of death from either of those things than HIV?  You really think everyone can afford life-saving medication?   You think everyone lives in a country where there is socialized medicine?

Really?!  I generally try not to get too emotional in these threads, but your statement is the biggest load of crap I've heard in a long time. 

I'm not making a comment, in this post, on the actual criminalization debate.
Dates are blood draw dates:
9/4/14: CD4 948, 37.9%, VL 150
5/23/14: CD4 895 --.-% VL UD - Truvada/Isentress
09/21/09: CD4 898 27.0% VL 120 - back on track, same meds.High level enzymes, but less so
06/15/09: CD4 478 21.8% VL 1150 - high liver enzymes... looks like I may not be resistant
05/22/09: Fixed insurance, resumed medicine
04/17/09: Ran out of medicine, could not resolve insurance problems
04/01/09: CD4 773 28% VL 120 - high liver enzymes
12/01/08: CD4 514 23% VL 630
10/17/08 started Reyataz, Norvir and Truvada. -- possibly minor neuropathy, but otherwise okay.
9/10/08: CD4 345 17%, VL > 78K
8/18/08: CD4 312 18%, VL > 60K (considering meds)
12/19/07: CD4 550 28% VL > 100K (no meds yet)
Diagnosed 10/23/07

Offline mecch

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  • Posts: 12,174
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2009, 03:47:08 PM »
xman
probably everyone in this forum thinks that verdict is appalling.
Also, the "criminal" has self hatred - its a pity, his statements.

The philly person is being sarcastic.  Are you a native English speaker? 

There are many threads on criminalisation here in Poz forums.

Here is a link to a good blog about the topic:
http://criminalhivtransmission.blogspot.com/

Many countries in addition to the USA have laws.  The laws vary as to what exactly constitutes a crime.

The law in Iowa is not a national law it's a state law. And yes, it criminalizes "non disclosure" even without transmission or unsafe sex.

I agree you ask a VERY interesting question - where is the proof of non disclosure.  The problem was this HIV+ guy I think, sounds to me like he had a BAD lawyer if he copped to not saying anything or not recalling.



“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline xman

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  • Posts: 289
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2009, 09:35:50 PM »
Really!?  So you think there is a higher rate of death from either of those things than HIV? Really?!  I generally try not to get too emotional in these threads, but your statement is the biggest load of crap I've heard in a long time. 

You're not well informed like most of the people.
Please read the following:

http://www.natap.org/2003/AASLD/day1_1.htm

COMPARING THE PUBLIC HEALTH BURDEN OF CHRONIC HEPATITIS C AND HIV INFECTION IN UNITED STATES
 
 
 
  54th AASLD Boston, MA
Oct 24-28, 2003
Poster abstract #552
 
Sylvie Deuffic-Burban, INSERM U444, Paris, France; John B Wong, Tufts-New England Medical Center, Boston, MA; Thierry Poynard, Groupe Hospitalier Pitie Salpetriere, Paris, France
 
In the US, hepatitis C virus (HCV) is perhaps four times more common than human immunodeficiency virus (HIV). Prior to effective therapy for HIV, AIDS-related mortality exceeded that from liver disease, but the advent of highly active anti-retroviral therapy (HAART) has greatly improved HIV survival and reduced AIDS-related mortality. Many HIV-infected individuals have been diagnosed and treated but HCV remains mostly undiagnosed and untreated. Projecting the future health burden of these two epidemics may help health policymakers plan their responses.
 
The pupose of the study is to compare the projected future disease burden (incidence and mortality) related to HCV and to HIV in the US.
 
We applied the back calculation method to develop mathematical models of the HIV and the HCV epidemic in the US and have incorporated antiviral treatment into these estimates (proportion treated and their likely response; for HCV these estimates were only up until 1999 and did not consider the combination of peginterferon and ribavirin). These models were based on US epidemiologic data regarding prevalence, incidence of infection, age and gender of incident cases, AIDS, hepatocellular mortality and general population mortality from the CDC, WHO and literature data.
 
We first applied the back calculation method to develop separate HIV and HCV models. Logistic and time-dependent lognormal model parameters were adjusted until the models resulted in the best fit or match to the reported past incidence of these two infections up to 1998. We then projected future HIV and HCV-related mortality until 2070.
 
In the HIV model, the time from infection to AIDS (AIDS incubation period) is assumed to be 8 years in the absence of anti-retroviral treatment or during the mono-therapy period (before 1995), 10 years during dual-therapy period (1995-6) and 20 years during HAART or triple-therapy period since 1996. These estimates were based on HIV-seropositive subjects in French hospitals.
 
RESULTS
 
Based on the HCV backcalculation model, the HCV epidemic peaked with a maximum annual HCV incidence in 1984 at 149,000-224,000 new infections and then fell to about 33,000-46,000 in 1998. Based on the HIV backcalculation model, HIV incidence reached its maximum in 1989 at 132,000-162,000 new infections and then declined to 38,000-49,000 in 1995, before rising again. Mortality related to HCV (death from liver failure or hepatocellular carcinoma) rose from about 3,800-4,200 in 1998 to peak at about 14,000-19,000 in 2030. For comparison, observed HIV-related mortality was 16,000 in 1998 and projected to be 4,200-6,700 estimated for 2030.
 
With the availability of effective HAART for HIV infection, mortality from HIV appears to have declined substantially. The stability of that decline will depend on epidemiologic trends and the rate of development of HAART resistance. Our model projections for hepatitis C are consistent with three other US projections that all suggest that mortality and the public health burden of HCV will rise over the next 30 years.
sign the petition launched by the aids policy project addressed to the nih aimed to increase the money needed to find the cure:

http://www.aidspolicyproject.org/petition_for_the_nih

we can make a difference and we need to fight. please support them! it doesn't cost you anything. they need it now more than ever!

Offline xman

  • Member
  • Posts: 289
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2009, 09:38:49 PM »
Please consider also that this applies for the industrialized nations. In Africa they also die from diarrhea. The problem here is not untreated HIV but the laws applied for HIV infected people in nations where HAART is widely available. In most modern countries HAART is totally free.
sign the petition launched by the aids policy project addressed to the nih aimed to increase the money needed to find the cure:

http://www.aidspolicyproject.org/petition_for_the_nih

we can make a difference and we need to fight. please support them! it doesn't cost you anything. they need it now more than ever!

Offline Winiroo

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,082
  • Positive since 1991
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2009, 10:07:50 PM »
There has been a lot of press on a case near where I live.

Frisco man gets 45 years for hiding HIV infection from sex partners
McKINNEY – A Frisco man will serve 45 years in prison for failing to disclose that he was infected with HIV before having sex with at least six women.


More @ link to story
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/053009dnmetpadieuhiv.2add1223.html

Offline a2z

  • Member
  • Posts: 198
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2009, 10:50:03 PM »
You're not well informed like most of the people.

Nice shot, here's one back at ya!

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/FASTATS/lcod.htm

Please take a note of Page 22 and particularly Table 10 from Page 22:

Although mortality from Human immunodeficiency virus disease (HIV disease) has not been on the list of 15 leading causes of death since 1997 (25), it is still considered a major public health problem. In 2006, a total of 12,113 persons died from HIV disease


Cause of Death
# of people
Syphilis (A50-A53)
38
Viral hepatitis (B15-B19)
7,250
Human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) disease
  (B20-B24)
12,113

Your study assumes health care is available for all.  It is not.  For some people HIV is still a death sentence when it's combined with the symptom of poverty.  And notice HPV is not even on the list.  Are you tying all cervical cancer deaths to that?

As I said before, rubbish.
Dates are blood draw dates:
9/4/14: CD4 948, 37.9%, VL 150
5/23/14: CD4 895 --.-% VL UD - Truvada/Isentress
09/21/09: CD4 898 27.0% VL 120 - back on track, same meds.High level enzymes, but less so
06/15/09: CD4 478 21.8% VL 1150 - high liver enzymes... looks like I may not be resistant
05/22/09: Fixed insurance, resumed medicine
04/17/09: Ran out of medicine, could not resolve insurance problems
04/01/09: CD4 773 28% VL 120 - high liver enzymes
12/01/08: CD4 514 23% VL 630
10/17/08 started Reyataz, Norvir and Truvada. -- possibly minor neuropathy, but otherwise okay.
9/10/08: CD4 345 17%, VL > 78K
8/18/08: CD4 312 18%, VL > 60K (considering meds)
12/19/07: CD4 550 28% VL > 100K (no meds yet)
Diagnosed 10/23/07

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,174
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2009, 05:05:44 PM »
In a perfect world, HIV would be universally treated and in no way a crime to transmit.

I was infected in Switzerland where transmission is a crime but where also, the judges are subtly changing to take into account HAART treatment and undetectable status. 

I am in the minority of people who think in certain situations, HIV transmission is "criminal" and should be a prosecutable crime.  Maybe a civll penalty, however (education, service, financial, I'm not sure).  But, since these situations are virtually impossible to prove, in the end, I think it should not be a crime.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline a2z

  • Member
  • Posts: 198
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2009, 12:42:50 AM »
In a perfect world, HIV would be universally treated and in no way a crime to transmit.

I was infected in Switzerland where transmission is a crime but where also, the judges are subtly changing to take into account HAART treatment and undetectable status. 

I am in the minority of people who think in certain situations, HIV transmission is "criminal" and should be a prosecutable crime.  Maybe a civll penalty, however (education, service, financial, I'm not sure).  But, since these situations are virtually impossible to prove, in the end, I think it should not be a crime.

I think you pretty much sum up my feelings too.  I think deliberately deceiving or deliberately attempting to spread the virus should be criminal, but I think there should be a high bar of proof of conviction for that. 

I just don't buy the argument Xman puts forward for it or for that judge being "ignorant."  HIV, without meds, is still deadly.  And even with meds, it's no picnic.
Dates are blood draw dates:
9/4/14: CD4 948, 37.9%, VL 150
5/23/14: CD4 895 --.-% VL UD - Truvada/Isentress
09/21/09: CD4 898 27.0% VL 120 - back on track, same meds.High level enzymes, but less so
06/15/09: CD4 478 21.8% VL 1150 - high liver enzymes... looks like I may not be resistant
05/22/09: Fixed insurance, resumed medicine
04/17/09: Ran out of medicine, could not resolve insurance problems
04/01/09: CD4 773 28% VL 120 - high liver enzymes
12/01/08: CD4 514 23% VL 630
10/17/08 started Reyataz, Norvir and Truvada. -- possibly minor neuropathy, but otherwise okay.
9/10/08: CD4 345 17%, VL > 78K
8/18/08: CD4 312 18%, VL > 60K (considering meds)
12/19/07: CD4 550 28% VL > 100K (no meds yet)
Diagnosed 10/23/07

Offline clsoca

  • Member
  • Posts: 164
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2009, 12:49:37 AM »
I feel deliberately and intentionally exposing any person to any virus or illness should have some penalties.

This issue should not be solely about HIV.

What about syphilis, MRSA even the so called H1N1 virus. There have already been some sick people who have placed MRSA residue on envelopes and mailed it away. So when the recipient opened it, they would touch MRSA.
10/07 Infected
11/07 Seroconversion
07/08 Tested Poz
07/08 VL 487  CD4 658  (No Meds)
10/08 VL 286  CD4 724  (No Meds)
01/24/09 VL 30,100   CD4 329 CD4 30% (No Meds)
02/06/09 VL 44,000   CD4 367 CD4 36%  Blood Work @ UCLA (No Meds)
02/06/09 VL 44,000   CD4 317 CD4 35% Blood Work @ USC (No Meds)
02/12/09 VL 52,000   CD4 297 CD4 29%
02/12/09  Started Atripla
04/01/09 VL 60  CD4 667   CD4 48%
06-05-09  VL UD CD4 427   CD4 39%

Offline xman

  • Member
  • Posts: 289
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2009, 12:49:21 PM »
The laws don't consider the advantages of current HAART treatments and of those expected to come. The issue today in the developed world is not dying of AIDS but of other complications in part linked to drugs and of course of those present in the general population too. The law needs to be updated and Switzerland is on the way ahead in this process. The only fact that criminalization is responsible for the hidden progress of the disease due to lack of testing in the general population is a sign that current law is obsolete and needs to be revised.
sign the petition launched by the aids policy project addressed to the nih aimed to increase the money needed to find the cure:

http://www.aidspolicyproject.org/petition_for_the_nih

we can make a difference and we need to fight. please support them! it doesn't cost you anything. they need it now more than ever!

Offline dixieman

  • Member
  • Posts: 889
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2009, 04:52:49 PM »
Very interesting article on "thebody" I wonder what the laws are for men having consentual sex with men in Iowa are? in some states its still illegal just not prosecuted... also who is this Ignorant SOB taking the word of someone they have met online? what a big laugh... one should always (ALWAYS) think of STD's possibly being transmitted when having sex with a STRANGER no matter what one states... Who are these people? he told me he was Clean? damn... they both should be LOCKED up! one for stupidity and the other for just being an asshole who wanted to get his rocks off... so there you go... if everyone in this world knew of their status for STD's whether Hep-a-b-c etc... gonoreah, clamydia, syphylis, herpes, hpv... etc... etc... the spread of these diseases would end... but, that's not going to happen...

its called its your body... your sex life... protect yourself and think of everyone as possibly having the potential as being a carrier of a disease...

Offline a2z

  • Member
  • Posts: 198
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2009, 03:23:48 AM »
The laws don't consider the advantages of current HAART treatments and of those expected to come...

Why should they?  Again, you are assuming universal health care.  At least in the US (which are a lot of the cases being referred to in this thread) that is not the case.  And mark my words, it won't be. 

Believe it or not, I'm not arguing in favor of criminalization (well entirely, anyway.  As I mentioned in another post, I do agree in some cases there should be a criminal penalty.)  I just am arguing against your reasoning as to WHY this shouldn't be criminal.

I think dixieman said it well

"its called its your body... your sex life... protect yourself and think of everyone as possibly having the potential as being a carrier of a disease..."
Dates are blood draw dates:
9/4/14: CD4 948, 37.9%, VL 150
5/23/14: CD4 895 --.-% VL UD - Truvada/Isentress
09/21/09: CD4 898 27.0% VL 120 - back on track, same meds.High level enzymes, but less so
06/15/09: CD4 478 21.8% VL 1150 - high liver enzymes... looks like I may not be resistant
05/22/09: Fixed insurance, resumed medicine
04/17/09: Ran out of medicine, could not resolve insurance problems
04/01/09: CD4 773 28% VL 120 - high liver enzymes
12/01/08: CD4 514 23% VL 630
10/17/08 started Reyataz, Norvir and Truvada. -- possibly minor neuropathy, but otherwise okay.
9/10/08: CD4 345 17%, VL > 78K
8/18/08: CD4 312 18%, VL > 60K (considering meds)
12/19/07: CD4 550 28% VL > 100K (no meds yet)
Diagnosed 10/23/07

Offline Ann

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  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2009, 05:07:17 AM »

its called its your body... your sex life... protect yourself and think of everyone as possibly having the potential as being a carrier of a disease...


Absolutely.

To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI.

That's just the way it is.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2009, 07:16:12 AM »
You don't disclose and have unprotected sex then be prepaired to pay the price.

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2009, 07:24:23 AM »
You don't disclose and have unprotected sex then be prepaired to pay the price.

That works both ways. Have unprotected sex with someone whose hiv status you don't know  - then be prepared to pay the price. The only time you're going to get me to say otherwise is in the case of a couple where one partner has every reason to believe they're monogamous and the other partner is playing away behind their back. If you're playing the field and having unprotected, then yes, you just might pay the price. That doesn't mean the other person should go to jail. All criminalising hiv does is drive it underground, which is FAR more dangerous.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2009, 08:58:12 AM »
That works both ways. Have unprotected sex with someone whose hiv status you don't know  - then be prepared to pay the price. The only time you're going to get me to say otherwise is in the case of a couple where one partner has every reason to believe they're monogamous and the other partner is playing away behind their back. If you're playing the field and having unprotected, then yes, you just might pay the price. That doesn't mean the other person should go to jail. All criminalising hiv does is drive it underground, which is FAR more dangerous.

Ann


There is no reason that anyone can come up with that knowingly has HIV doesn't disclose their status to their partner as a reason to have UNPROTECTED vaginal or anal sex. You can't get me to change my stance on it either. It is just as much our responsibility to stop the spread of HIV and by us knowing we are infected CAN protect our partners from contracting it by correctly using condoms and do it consistently.

Offline komnaes

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,898
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2009, 09:26:30 AM »
..It is just as much our responsibility to stop the spread of HIV and by us knowing we are infected CAN protect our partners from contracting it by correctly using condoms and do it consistently.

Right, in that case lets throw anyone who's negative and engaging in unprotected sex knowing the risk involved also to jail for allowing the virus to be spread.
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Criminalization
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2009, 09:33:47 AM »
Right, in that case lets throw anyone who's negative and engaging in unprotected sex knowing the risk involved also to jail for allowing the virus to be spread.

Who's negative? Now, how much sense did that make?

Offline xman

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Re: Criminalization
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2009, 12:23:15 PM »
.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2009, 12:58:30 PM by xman »
sign the petition launched by the aids policy project addressed to the nih aimed to increase the money needed to find the cure:

http://www.aidspolicyproject.org/petition_for_the_nih

we can make a difference and we need to fight. please support them! it doesn't cost you anything. they need it now more than ever!

Offline xman

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Re: Criminalization
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2009, 12:27:17 PM »
Absolutely.

To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI.

That's just the way it is.

Ann


OK but we all know this doesn't apply to real world. Every day there's unprotected sex and 20 years of prevention campaigns didn't change anything. The virus continues to spread. Please explain me the sense of HIV criminalization.
sign the petition launched by the aids policy project addressed to the nih aimed to increase the money needed to find the cure:

http://www.aidspolicyproject.org/petition_for_the_nih

we can make a difference and we need to fight. please support them! it doesn't cost you anything. they need it now more than ever!

Offline xman

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Re: Criminalization
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2009, 12:31:50 PM »
Why should they?  Again, you are assuming universal health care.  At least in the US (which are a lot of the cases being referred to in this thread) that is not the case.  And mark my words, it won't be.  

We are not only talking about America here. I know that USA has some of the worst healthcare systems worldwide on the same level of Africa. In Europe we have universal healthcare and in fact some changes in the laws are made.
sign the petition launched by the aids policy project addressed to the nih aimed to increase the money needed to find the cure:

http://www.aidspolicyproject.org/petition_for_the_nih

we can make a difference and we need to fight. please support them! it doesn't cost you anything. they need it now more than ever!

Offline clsoca

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Re: Criminalization
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2009, 01:03:06 PM »
Just some clarification xman:

In America, if you have money, you have access to the very best health care in the world 2nd to none.

In America, if you are poor, you do not have access to the very best health care in world.

As sad as it is, it is what it is.

10/07 Infected
11/07 Seroconversion
07/08 Tested Poz
07/08 VL 487  CD4 658  (No Meds)
10/08 VL 286  CD4 724  (No Meds)
01/24/09 VL 30,100   CD4 329 CD4 30% (No Meds)
02/06/09 VL 44,000   CD4 367 CD4 36%  Blood Work @ UCLA (No Meds)
02/06/09 VL 44,000   CD4 317 CD4 35% Blood Work @ USC (No Meds)
02/12/09 VL 52,000   CD4 297 CD4 29%
02/12/09  Started Atripla
04/01/09 VL 60  CD4 667   CD4 48%
06-05-09  VL UD CD4 427   CD4 39%

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Criminalization
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2009, 01:18:39 PM »
Just some clarification xman:

In America, if you have money, you have access to the very best health care in the world 2nd to none.

In America, if you are poor, you do not have access to the very best health care in world.

As sad as it is, it is what it is.


Have to differ with you. I'm poor and I do get the best health care. I can't complain.

Offline komnaes

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Re: Criminalization
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2009, 03:09:13 PM »
Who's negative? Now, how much sense did that make?

Definitely not you, nor me. What doesn't make sense to you?
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Criminalization
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2009, 04:25:38 PM »
Definitely not you, nor me. What doesn't make sense to you?
If they are both negative than neither has a worry. What was discussed was a person that is positive and not disclosing and having unprotected sex.

Offline clsoca

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Re: Criminalization
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2009, 05:33:10 PM »
Good to hear you (RapidRod) are receiving great health care. You are truly blessed.

I will share with you that there are plenty of poor and elderly Americans that cannot even afford to take their medicines everyday. There are many that must take their medicine every other day and choose between medicine and food. One older lesbian lady that I know shared with me that it is a all day affair going to her clinic and receiving her high blood pressure medicine. If you ask me, it's a bit sad in this country.

I try to help her as much as I can. 
10/07 Infected
11/07 Seroconversion
07/08 Tested Poz
07/08 VL 487  CD4 658  (No Meds)
10/08 VL 286  CD4 724  (No Meds)
01/24/09 VL 30,100   CD4 329 CD4 30% (No Meds)
02/06/09 VL 44,000   CD4 367 CD4 36%  Blood Work @ UCLA (No Meds)
02/06/09 VL 44,000   CD4 317 CD4 35% Blood Work @ USC (No Meds)
02/12/09 VL 52,000   CD4 297 CD4 29%
02/12/09  Started Atripla
04/01/09 VL 60  CD4 667   CD4 48%
06-05-09  VL UD CD4 427   CD4 39%

Offline komnaes

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Re: Criminalization
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2009, 07:51:37 PM »
If they are both negative than neither has a worry. What was discussed was a person that is positive and not disclosing and having unprotected sex.

I thought it was understood that I meant the negative partner should also be thrown into jail while having unprotected sex with a positive person as this thread is about criminalizing us not disclosing. Isn't it your stand that it

Quote
is just as much our responsibility
,

or the (criminal) responsibility rests solely on us?
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline xman

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Re: Criminalization
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2009, 08:23:20 PM »
I thought it was understood that I meant the negative partner should also be thrown into jail while having unprotected sex with a positive person as this thread is about criminalizing us not disclosing.

I agree. If a HIV negative person passes on me hepatitis c virus which would worsen my overall health I should be protected by the law as well. 
sign the petition launched by the aids policy project addressed to the nih aimed to increase the money needed to find the cure:

http://www.aidspolicyproject.org/petition_for_the_nih

we can make a difference and we need to fight. please support them! it doesn't cost you anything. they need it now more than ever!

Offline xman

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Re: Criminalization
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2009, 08:29:36 PM »
Like someone else said everybody must assume that all our partners are HIV positive and consequently even negatives must use condoms everytime, even in monogamous relationships with no exceptions. There's never the absolute security to be not infected. There's plenty of people ready to swear on the faith of their partners and then they discover the multiple lovers he or she had. Why I should assume the responsibility and the consequences for people that denies the use of condoms? I think every person has to take their own responsibilities.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2009, 08:37:41 PM by xman »
sign the petition launched by the aids policy project addressed to the nih aimed to increase the money needed to find the cure:

http://www.aidspolicyproject.org/petition_for_the_nih

we can make a difference and we need to fight. please support them! it doesn't cost you anything. they need it now more than ever!

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Criminalization
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2009, 08:39:49 PM »
xman you are getting off track.

If I shoot you nothing should happen to me because you should have had a bullet proof vest on knowing I may shoot you. You think that makes sense? That's what you are saying about people that don't disclose. Nothing should happen to me because you didn't take the needed precautions.

And to whomever ask about HCV. If the person knew they had HCV didn't disclose then in most states they could be prosecuted for transmitting an infectious disease.

Offline xman

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Re: Criminalization
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2009, 08:47:23 PM »
.
sign the petition launched by the aids policy project addressed to the nih aimed to increase the money needed to find the cure:

http://www.aidspolicyproject.org/petition_for_the_nih

we can make a difference and we need to fight. please support them! it doesn't cost you anything. they need it now more than ever!

Offline komnaes

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Re: Criminalization
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2009, 10:06:23 PM »
If I shoot you nothing should happen to me because you should have had a bullet proof vest on knowing I may shoot you...

That's a very very bad analogy on so many levels but lets not go there now. The OP is about throwing us into jail for simply NOT disclosing. So where the (criminal) responsibility lays?

The minute we not disclose whether protection is used or not?

Or if protection is used there's no need to disclose?

What is "as much of our responsibility", which seems to imply the participating negative partner also has some responsibility? Or what?
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Criminalization
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2009, 10:15:33 PM »
That's a very very bad analogy on so many levels but lets not go there now. The OP is about throwing us into jail for simply NOT disclosing. So where the (criminal) responsibility lays?

The minute we not disclose whether protection is used or not?

Or if protection is used there's no need to disclose?

What is "as much of our responsibility", which seems to imply the participating negative partner also has some responsibility? Or what?
  Square on you for not being responible enough to disclose so that the person my have a choice not to have sex with you and riisk their health. You disclose and they are willing to have protected sex then if the condom fails they are as much at fault. They knew what the risk was.

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2009, 10:32:10 PM »
Rapid is correct morally, on the high road.

But Rapid, somehow that puts extra weight on the HIV+ person to disclose and you are saying it is his/her responsibility if he does NOT disclose, but somehow there is transmission even if protection is used. Meaning the formerly negative partner did not get the opportunity to decline sex due to the HIV+ disclosure, which didnt happen.

Well back to my weird infection because it somehow happened with condom protected top and bottom anal sex.  And an HIV+ person who did NOT disclose to me, rather he lied.  Then copped to the truth months later, and furthermore then gave no clear answer about when he started HAART.  

This makes it personally quite clear to me, that I have obligation to disclose even if it is safe sex.

Being positive, and having to disclose (because I have personally experienced the damage of nondisclosure) is now radically changing my sex life.  Its a bummer.  

Maybe I'll grow. Maybe be bitter. Maybe I'll give up and fuck around without disclosing. I dunno.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline komnaes

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Re: Criminalization
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2009, 11:13:18 PM »
  Square on you for not being responible enough to disclose so that the person my have a choice not to have sex with you and riisk their health. You disclose and they are willing to have protected sex then if the condom fails they are as much at fault. They knew what the risk was.

Right, so in your opinion failing to disclose is enough to throw someone to jail even though transmission has not taken place? Or if no risky/unprotected sex is followed by nondisclosure (say, a hand job or us giving a blow job), we're still criminally reliable?
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2009, 12:22:26 AM »
I think he meant if there was transmission resulting from a safe sex accident.

I dunno. The more one goes into the little details, it all gets blurry and breaks down.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline a2z

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Re: Criminalization
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2009, 02:29:00 AM »
There is no reason that anyone can come up with that knowingly has HIV doesn't disclose their status to their partner as a reason to have UNPROTECTED vaginal or anal sex. You can't get me to change my stance on it either. It is just as much our responsibility to stop the spread of HIV and by us knowing we are infected CAN protect our partners from contracting it by correctly using condoms and do it consistently.

Rod, first I agree that everyone SHOULD disclose.  In fact, I have to make that decision as to when rather soon as I met someone nice tonight that I want to sleep with.

However, I think it should only be prosecutable if there is a deliberate intent to NOT disclose.  And the bar for proof should be high. 
Dates are blood draw dates:
9/4/14: CD4 948, 37.9%, VL 150
5/23/14: CD4 895 --.-% VL UD - Truvada/Isentress
09/21/09: CD4 898 27.0% VL 120 - back on track, same meds.High level enzymes, but less so
06/15/09: CD4 478 21.8% VL 1150 - high liver enzymes... looks like I may not be resistant
05/22/09: Fixed insurance, resumed medicine
04/17/09: Ran out of medicine, could not resolve insurance problems
04/01/09: CD4 773 28% VL 120 - high liver enzymes
12/01/08: CD4 514 23% VL 630
10/17/08 started Reyataz, Norvir and Truvada. -- possibly minor neuropathy, but otherwise okay.
9/10/08: CD4 345 17%, VL > 78K
8/18/08: CD4 312 18%, VL > 60K (considering meds)
12/19/07: CD4 550 28% VL > 100K (no meds yet)
Diagnosed 10/23/07

Offline komnaes

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Re: Criminalization
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2009, 03:58:56 AM »
I think he meant if there was transmission resulting from a safe sex accident.

It's up to Rod to clear this up but transmission did not happen in the case quoted in the OP.

The fact is many legislation do not require transmission - it's the act of nondisclosure that is punishable. Criminal laws do not like blurry details so many states/countries opt for simple solution - if you're infected, it's solely up to you to disclose no matter what. So all you need is a paranoid accuser, as in this case who's probably cruising a lot online and does his own verbal serosorting, claiming that he has the right to decide not to be intimate with someone who's not "clean".

And there you have it - the pozzie is spending very likely the rest of his life in jail while this accuser, like many others, can continue to exercise his "right to choose" and be paranoid about "intimacy" with us pozzies while the rest of society can feel "safe" and smug that "justice has been served" as the pozzie monster is behind bars.
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Criminalization
« Reply #40 on: June 08, 2009, 04:40:34 AM »
It's up to Rod to clear this up but transmission did not happen in the case quoted in the OP.

The fact is many legislation do not require transmission - it's the act of nondisclosure that is punishable. Criminal laws do not like blurry details so many states/countries opt for simple solution - if you're infected, it's solely up to you to disclose no matter what. So all you need is a paranoid accuser, as in this case who's probably cruising a lot online and does his own verbal serosorting, claiming that he has the right to decide not to be intimate with someone who's not "clean".

And there you have it - the pozzie is spending very likely the rest of his life in jail while this accuser, like many others, can continue to exercise his "right to choose" and be paranoid about "intimacy" with us pozzies while the rest of society can feel "safe" and smug that "justice has been served" as the pozzie monster is behind bars.
The person should have had the right to decide if they wanted to have sex with that person protectected or not had they person disclosed his status. The word is "KNOWINGLY."

Now komnaes, do you go around having unprotected sex with people not disclosing YOUR status? I don't.

Offline komnaes

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Re: Criminalization
« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2009, 05:07:47 AM »
The person should have had the right to decide if they wanted to have sex with that person protectected or not had they person disclosed his status. The word is "KNOWINGLY."

It's everybody's right to cross a busy 10 lanes freeway blindfolded but then you don't expect not to be hit by a car. Legally speaking KNOWINGLY can equally apply to anyone who's well aware of the risk.

Now komnaes, do you go around having unprotected sex with people not disclosing YOUR status? I don't.

I thought of you highly Rod, I really did, until I saw this; and the most restrained and respectable way I can think of to deal with it is to not comment it further.
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Criminalization
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2009, 05:53:24 AM »
It's everybody's right to cross a busy 10 lanes freeway blindfolded but then you don't expect not to be hit by a car. Legally speaking KNOWINGLY can equally apply to anyone who's well aware of the risk.

I thought of you highly Rod, I really did, until I saw this; and the most restrained and respectable way I can think of to deal with it is to not comment it further.
That's your prerogative. I will not change my stance on nondisclosure. I've lived with HIV for 25 years and you only 2. We will see if your stance changes when you've lived with HIV for 25 years.

Offline komnaes

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Re: Criminalization
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2009, 06:04:18 AM »
That's your prerogative. I will not change my stance on nondisclosure. I've lived with HIV for 25 years and you only 2. We will see if your stance changes when you've lived with HIV for 25 years.

I honestly don't know what's your stance since you used only languages like "at fault", "pay the price" and "being responsible", while the OP is about a real person being thrown into jail for simply not disclosing.

And I have passed the point of caring what is your stance and whether you've been positive for 25 or 250 years.

PS - I don't have more prerogative than you or anyone here. I just hope you won't be throwing implicit accusations at someone the way you did to me for simply not agreeing with you, being a mod and all. That's very LOW.
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2009, 06:16:29 AM »
I honestly don't know what's your stance since you used only languages like "at fault", "pay the price" and "being responsible", while the OP is about a real person being thrown into jail for simply not disclosing.

And I have passed the point of caring what is your stance and whether you've been positive for 25 or 250 years.

PS - I don't have more prerogative than you or anyone here. I just hope you won't be throwing implicit accusations at someone the way you did to me for simply not agreeing with you, being a mod and all. That's very LOW.
Sorry I'm not a mod nor have I ever been.

Offline komnaes

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,898
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2009, 06:20:33 AM »
Sorry I'm not a mod nor have I ever been.

Oh right, don't care either. So let me state that again:

PS - I don't have more prerogative than you or anyone here. I just hope you won't be throwing implicit accusations at someone the way you did to me for simply not agreeing with you. That's very LOW.
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2009, 06:26:59 AM »
Oh right, don't care either. So let me state that again:

PS - I don't have more prerogative than you or anyone here. I just hope you won't be throwing implicit accusations at someone the way you did to me for simply not agreeing with you. That's very LOW.
There was never any accusations thrown at you not once. Questions yes, accusations no and if you look at some of the other's post that don't agree with you. We can agree to disagree.

Offline komnaes

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,898
Re: Criminalization
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2009, 08:45:56 AM »
Now komnaes, do you go around having unprotected sex with people not disclosing YOUR status? I don't.

No, we don't have anything to agree to disagree about.
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

 


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