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Author Topic: Will yourself to good health?  (Read 1503 times)

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Offline komnaes

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,898
Will yourself to good health?
« on: May 22, 2009, 12:33:19 AM »

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104351710

"Ironson (a scientist) says over time, those who turned to God after their diagnosis had a much lower viral load and maintained those powerful immune cells at a much higher rate than those who turned away from God."

And that's from NPR. What do you think?
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline Robert

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  • Posts: 2,649
Re: Will yourself to good health?
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2009, 02:37:54 AM »

hey shaun.

I listen to that story this evening as I was fixing dinner. I don't want to sound the sceptic, but my first thought was that the particular patient she (Ironson) had in mind was probably a long term non progressor.

Taking meds and following your better judgement to lead a more healthy life isn't the same as tuning into god(s) for help but certainly such guidance can't hurt.

robt
..........

Offline beefbud

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  • just some flesh caught in this big broken machine"
    • cubster dot com
Re: Will yourself to good health?
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2009, 02:47:41 AM »
so in a way he is saying that anyone who has HIV had no beliefs in god and therefore were infected?  mmmhmmm...sounds brilliant to me (please note the sarcasm.)

also, why get the bloodwork drawn at all if god is taking care of everything?  What if the Tcells drop, do you turn your back?  This is the most assinine story I have read in a while.  Im all for everyone and their beliefs, however, publishing dumb shit like this is misleading and may give false hope to many out there.   Almost hand in hand with denialists in my opinion.  (In publishing I mean NPR not you providing a link to the story.)
« Last Edit: May 22, 2009, 02:56:38 AM by beefbud »
"first impressions are cheap auditions"

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Will yourself to good health?
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2009, 06:17:28 AM »
"In fact, people who felt abandoned by God and who decreased in spirituality lost their CD4 cells 4.5 times faster than people who increased in spirituality," Ironson says. "That was actually our most powerful psychological predictor to date."

"Just so I understand it," I confirm, "if someone weren't taking their meds and were depressed, they would still fare better if they increased in spirituality?"

"Yes," she says. "Now, I'm not in any way suggesting that people don't take their meds," she adds quickly, laughing. "This is really an important point. However, the effects of spirituality are over and above."


Got to read the research question closely to understand the results.

If one were a religious person, got infected by HIV, and then the HIV+ person decided God had abandoned him, or he lost his spirituality as a result of HIV.  This would appear to be a double whammy - difficult disease, and a change in what gives life meaning - from meaningful to meaningless life.  Of course this would have an effect on killer cells.

Faith, meditation, positive thoughts, social support, love etc etc etc - you can open Amazon and read all kinds of decent books on these topics and their relation to health, disease and healing, some by doctors and scientists.

I think we have to let the two paths coexist - science of disease/medicine  AND other understandings of disease and treatment.

Whats silly to say one should preclude the other. 

Also this AIDS researcher is loading her data field. 

Ask her to go interview 20 long-term non progressors and see what their "technique" is for staying healthy.



ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline hjeffs

  • Member
  • Posts: 65
Re: Will yourself to good health?
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2009, 03:30:28 PM »
HIV or no HIV, before or after HIV spiritual practices are a wonderful way to improve life. Life with HIV, as in my case, is better with my spiritual practices of choice. Life happens on a human level in my life and God is through me, expressed as me. This includes my HIV+. Cause and effect in the human plain. I own it, I take responsibility for it and understand it as a part of me, not my definition or judgement of myself. My spiritual practices assist me in knowing myself better each day and in return make the best out of each part of my life. Each day is a day of practice of my human experience with God being a part of it. 
Jeff

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • Posts: 24,522
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Will yourself to good health?
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2009, 04:06:56 PM »
As a committed existentialist this thread does not interest me.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline umfowabo

  • Member
  • Posts: 36
Re: Will yourself to good health?
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2009, 04:49:32 PM »
Life happens on a human level in my life

what does that even mean?

Matthew

Offline komnaes

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,898
Re: Will yourself to good health?
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2009, 09:54:15 PM »
, but my first thought was that the particular patient she (Ironson) had in mind was probably a long term non progressor...

Agree.. I am thinking that the fact that a patient is not showing any signs of health decline contributes a lot to a "blessed" state of mind.
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline positivmat

  • Member
  • Posts: 222
Re: Will yourself to good health?
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2009, 10:26:58 PM »
I don't know if the "God" element is so important. Rather God is a great way for theists to feel connected to humanity. Mindfulness based stress reduction is another way to feel that connection with all humanity and the world and has also been shown to increase tcell counts. So is the "God" or the interconnection and the lessening of ego which raises tcells? 
Maybe its just the comfort and stress reduction coming from faith in our interconnection with the world

Offline fearless

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,191
Re: Will yourself to good health?
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2009, 11:30:14 PM »
I have no problem with the notion that the power of the mind can do wonders to improve your health.

I just don't see the need to bring 'god' into it.

I'm sure it would work just as well with, "people who felt abondoned... lost their cd4's 4.5 times more quickly".

There's a lot we don't understand about the power of the mind. In fact, other quotes from Ironside (easily findable using a google search) don't mention 'god': E.g Ironson put it this way: "I would encourage patients to view the glass as half full instead of half empty. There's scientific evidence that that [good mental health] is related to slower disease progression."
« Last Edit: May 24, 2009, 11:34:13 PM by fearless »
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

 


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