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Author Topic: Risks  (Read 5366 times)

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Offline now_what

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Risks
« on: May 06, 2009, 04:38:56 PM »
Good Evening!!
Hope you guys are doing well.

Few questions please:
1. What is the difference between theoretical and documented risk. Is a theoretical risk practically impossible? The antonym of theoretical is practical and not documented (document-"able"). So, when we put emphasis on repeatedly listening/ telling about some theoretical aspect, it would be also good to have a little more details pertaining the practical part as well.

2. What exactly is the meaning of gaping wounds gushing blood or bleeding profusely. What exactly means by significant amount of blood to cause infection. It is my assumption that infection can be caused by 1 drop of blood also.

3. If the positive person's blood come in contact of negative person's saliva and then gets migrated to the negative person's wound, would a drop of blood be considered significant amount. I am aware that saliva inhibits transmission because it has 14 anti-HIV agents/enzymes. But, can it also act like a mode of transport (transfer) for the infected blood into the wound of an uninfected person.

4. i understand that people have differing opinions regarding possible modes of transmission. I have greatest regard for you guys but with so much infighting and heated discussions within the aidsmeds POZ community, it does create multiple doubts in a person's mind. Over past 2 years, I have seen POZ members on this community going from their stand over certain modes of transmission that "IT is NOT POSSIBLE. NO RISK" to "IT HAS NEVER BEEN DOCUMENTED"


In the end, I do understand that we all are humans and we all ERR as information develops over a period of time. Before that, it is all just a bunch of grey areas. Nothing BLACK and WHITE. I am humbled and overwhelmed by your support as a normal human being who has had few close calls.


Your replies will be deeply appreciated.

Danke/ merci

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Risks
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2009, 04:44:58 PM »
Did you have a specific risk that you are concerned about?

Offline now_what

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Re: Risks
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2009, 05:02:56 PM »
Hi Rod,
Specifically speaking

a minute log french kiss with a stranger
   a. got herpes break out on the lips 3 days later
   b. have multiple root canal surgeries in the mouth
   c. 1 root canal was done 15 yrs ago, the crown comes off easily and the tooth    below is completely rotten. Did not get it fixed as it is a time consuming exercise.
   d. A recently done root canal, the crown has dislocated and offen pierces the gums and they start bleeding.
   e. Oral mucosa not really in a good shape as I scrape the membranes with fingers/nails to get rid of tonsilliths/ tonsil stones. Sometimes it bleeds.
   e. Did not see if there was any blood in girl's mouth
   f. Maybe she had oral herpes or maybe I had it from before but if she had then I    would have sucked on it causing closer access to HIV through a drop of blood or so


   So, does this sound like extenuating circumstances

thanks...

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Risks
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2009, 05:08:43 PM »
No and it's not a risk of HIV transmission. Oral HSV1 (better known as cold sores) does not increase the risk of transmission. Nothing you have mention put you at risk of contracting HIV.

Offline now_what

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Re: Risks
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2009, 11:20:57 AM »
I need to tell you that I was drunk and oblivious to the facts that someone is approaching me to shove their tongue inside my mouth. Once that was done, as I liked it so reciprocated w/o deeply thinking about the consequences. Later, I realized that the girl has been kissing almost everyone in the club (guys as well as girls). I happen to be in a relationship and do not want to be risking my partner's health and status. I am just worried regarding the fact that hopefully it did not involve blood to blood contact. So, kindly evaluate the risk and pls inform me about the care that should be taken if kissing as you can not ask people to open and show their mouths to check for blood before kissing them.

Thanks...

Offline now_what

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Re: Risks
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2009, 11:36:58 AM »
Just few add ons:
1. my oral health is not good at all
2. I puked when I came back home
3. Did not drink anything after the french kiss for the remainder of night

Online Andy Velez

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Re: Risks
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2009, 12:12:32 PM »
Throw whatever recollections you have into the mix. It doesn't change the basic fact that no one has ever been infected through kissing and it's safe to say you won't make history by becoming the first.

You are worrying needlessly.

Period.

Cheers. 
Andy Velez

Offline now_what

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Re: Risks
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2009, 01:24:23 PM »
Hi,
I am a decent guy who takes extra precautions and very committed in my relationship but I guess at times shit happens. So, with your response, I just wanted to make sure if I did anything to put myself and my small happy world at risk. Was this behavior irresponsible from my side. I am not too comfortable with having the DOG status attached to my name but a wee-bit of DOG did came out alive that night. Anyways, leaving aside all my goofy personal issues, I just wanted to ask if I can resume relationship with my partner without worrying although I did have few symptoms like mild fever sore throat and night sweats along with oral herpes break out which I am not sure if i got from this activity.
Thanks

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Risks
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2009, 03:20:07 PM »
Move on.

Online Andy Velez

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Re: Risks
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2009, 05:41:49 PM »
There is no HIV risk to your partner from this recent incident.

As for herpes, it's not clear from what you have written if you  have you been diagnosed with that or you're self-diagnosing.

If you are having an active outbreak of herpes, it's easier for you to transmit it to another person. That's a separate issue for you to sort out with your doctor.
Andy Velez

Offline Ann

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Re: Risks
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2009, 07:14:08 AM »
Now,

You might very well be a "decent guy", but in this instance you're being a prick. Hiv simply is NOT transmitted through kissing. End of story.

Keep coming back with this kissing bullshit and you'll quickly earn yourself a time out. Again, end of story.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline now_what

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Re: Risks
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2011, 04:09:09 AM »
I had a deep throat kissing exposure with a girl of unknown status in a bar. I have had hsv-1 for a long time. However, during the kiss I did not have active lesions on the lips. But, 2-3 days after kissing, I had a breakout on lips. Does this put me at hiv risk. I am asking this because at the time of kiss, although I did not feel any herpes breakout coming up but now I am scared that it might have been on its way and I might have gotten exposed to some blood on it from the girl while kissing.

I am specifically asking this because This is because infectious sores have a concentration of the target cells for HIV (activated CD4 lymphocytes) present in them in response to the infection that provide increased opportunity for infection.

Keeping the blood aspect from the girl while kissing aside, I would like to evaluate my risk because herpes sores have cells which are more receptive to HIV. What I want to know that if sore are not present but appear say 24 hours post exposure, does that put me at risk keeping in mind the herpes prodome period etc..

I understand kissing is not a risk but would like you comments in this scenario

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Risks
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2011, 05:55:27 AM »
You never had a risk of contracting HIV.

Offline Ann

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Re: Risks
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2011, 06:33:56 AM »
now,

Over two years later and you're still fretting about hiv transmission via kissing?

We've told you before and our answer is not going to change. KISSING IS NOT A RISK FOR HIV INFECTION!!!

Not only is saliva not infectious, but it also contains over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect. Unless you're in the habit of repeatedly punching a person in the mouth before you kiss them, there could not possibly be enough blood present to cause any hiv concern. Herpes or no herpes.

Sexually speaking, only unprotected anal and vaginal intercourse are risks for hiv infection. Here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.

To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

ALTHOUGH YOU DO NOT NEED TO TEST OVER KISSING, anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. IT REALLY IS THAT SIMPLE!!!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline now_what

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Re: Risks
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2011, 05:04:37 AM »
"Sexually speaking, only unprotected anal and vaginal intercourse are risks for hiv infection. Here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:" - Ann

I never had sex with anyone other than my partner and she is negative. I was querying you about the kissing incident. Does that qualify as a sexual incident as per your above comment or does it qualify as a possible blood to blood incident.

Thanks..

Offline Ann

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Re: Risks
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2011, 07:33:01 AM »
Now,

Re-read what I already told you...

now,

Over two years later and you're still fretting about hiv transmission via kissing?


We've told you before and our answer is not going to change. KISSING IS NOT A RISK FOR HIV INFECTION!!!

Not only is saliva not infectious, but it also contains over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect. Unless you're in the habit of repeatedly punching a person in the mouth before you kiss them, there could not possibly be enough blood present to cause any hiv concern. Herpes or no herpes.


If you read the Welcome Thread before posting like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:

Quote

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.


Please consider yourself warned!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline now_what

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Re: Risks
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2011, 10:11:34 AM »
Hi,
I went to and HIV education meeting in my neighborhood. And, practically the information they gave matches what you inform to the forum users. However, I am confused with a couple of things:
a. They said Kaposi's sarcoma can appear as fast as 2 years in HIV infected folks. Is it true?
b. Many HIV infected folks develop AIDS in 2-3 years time.
The people holding these education sessions were representatives of a hospital. Not sure if they were correct  on the above mentioned queries. Kindly, do let me know so I can get hold of them in their next presentation and correct them if need be.
Thanks...

Offline now_what

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Re: Risks
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2011, 10:14:05 AM »
I asked the above question because I was under the impression that it takes longer than 2 yrs to develop opportunistic infection like KS and also got to AIDS stage from HIV stage.

Online Andy Velez

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Re: Risks
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2011, 10:39:38 AM »
Why are you even concerned about KS and when it may occur?

We are here only to answer questions about specific incidents and to evaluate them in them in terms of risk.

If you want to study HIV-related illnesses, do it on your own time. We are not your go to reference library for HIV.

Andy Velez

Offline now_what

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Re: Risks
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2011, 03:20:05 AM »
Hello,
I need to educate myself a little and I need help from you folks.

a. In this forum it is mentioned that if we suck on another person's blood from environmental surface it is no risk even in presence of bleeding gums and mouth sores. If sucking blood from environmental surface is no risk & HIV is transmitted from within the body, how come HIV poses a transfusion related risk. The blood bank stores blood in bags so that also means that the blood is stored in some kind of environmental surface and is out of the body. And, blood transfusion may possibly cause risk of hiv infection as this is common knowledge worldwide. Could you please clarify?

b. If I am getting you correctly, the forum suggests that kissing is not a risk no matter what the condition of mouth is. Are there any precaution that need to be taken while kissing a stranger with respect to HIV transmission. Because, if any(however difficult to imagine) kissing even does pose any risk, the generic statement "that kissing is no risk event for hiv" does become misleading. Again, for future safety, I am posting this query for my assurance(and I am talking about HIV transmission via blood infection during kissing) as we do not know what is the mouth condition of the other party..

I would love to hear response on both the queries from all especially from jkinati.

Thanks...



Offline Ann

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Re: Risks
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2011, 06:37:31 AM »
Now,

Blood that is collected and preserved for transfusion never encounters air. It goes directly from a person's vein into a sterile, airless bag. When it is transfused into a patient, it goes directly into their veins. Never is is out in the environment. Transfusion is no longer considered a risk for hiv infection as all blood banks screen the blood they collect.

The statement "kissing is not a risk for hiv infection" is NOT misleading. It means exactly what it says. Unless you are in the habit of repeatedly punching a person in the mouth before you kiss them, then there could not possibly be enough blood present to pose a risk. You want to know what precautions to take before kissing strangers? Don't punch them in the mouth until they're bleeding profusely before you kiss them.

Enough is enough already. I'm giving you that time out you've been warned about. Do not attempt to create a new account to get around your time out because if you do, you will be permanently banned.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Risks
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2011, 08:03:46 PM »
Kissing has never been documented insofar as HIV transmission is concerned. And sadly, I am sure there have been plenty of instances where someone punched someone else repeatedly in the mouth and then kissed.

Sometimes I underestimate the amount of tragedy in the world.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline now_what

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Re: Risks
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2012, 08:23:58 AM »
Hi all,

jkinatl2: I did not understand your last post. English is not my first language so I can not understand the humor or reasoning behind it. It will be great if you can clar it up for me.

Just as an update, I have been doing aright since last year. However, I have faced innumerable health issues since 2009 when this incident happened for which I did seek medical help but never mentioned the doctor that I had a kissing exposure. Just want to list them for you in case you think I should approach doctor regarding this issue.

1. In 2010 July: I developed lumbosacral spasms where my upper body went in different direction from lower body and pain on right butt. Took 2 weeks to revover without medical help. This happened with onset of darrhea and stomach issues.

2. In 2010 October: Piles, Breathing problems along with huge amount of aciidity and food reflux. Took medications. Issue subsided in Dec 2010

3. In 2011 Feb: Bad stomach pains & hemangioma found on liver in CT scan: got treated for giardiasis stomach infection with medicines for 1 month

4. In May 2011: Again lumbosacral issue and body allignment gone: Treated with 2 weeks of physiotherapy

5. In 2012 Jan-May: Piles, UTI pains and shocks, prostitis, major pains and aches in left leg and buttocks. Doctor found Pseudomonas Aeruginosa in Urine culture and treated with many antibiotics over a month. Pain in left leg still continuing without relief.

Even though, Giardiasis and Pseudomonas Aeruginosa infections are normally seen in immunocomprised people, I am still hoping that these things do not indicate of any HIV infection as all my exposure involved was a french kiss with bad oral health. Also, I would like to mention is that I never revealed to the doctor any risk of hiv exposure based on risk evaluation here(as it was informed to be no risk event). All throughout last 3 years, I have had week stomach with IBS kind of bowel movement especially after eating processed foods and beer.

Just to re-inform you about the incident - french kiss with a not bery hygenic looking girl(jumping like crazy & alone) in a dark club - 12 days later got a very bad sore throat - almost 3 weeks later got couple of bad rashes on chest(quarter sized) as a result of itch & they lasted for a week or so - during this time, i could have been having high fever but did not check thinking it was a no risk event but i did feel warm skin...& moreover, I did have a very bad oral health...

In any case, if you feel, I need to inform the doctor about the kissing event to join the dots, kindly do let me know. Giardia(gut) & pseudomonas aeruginosa(prostitis & UTI) are opportunistic infections. Don't their presence raise a red flag. Please answer. Does it change your evaluation as these are seen mainly in hiv positive or folks with AIDS. I am shivering in fear...

Also, I have been wasting and my body weight has gone down more than 10 pounds sice 2009

Thanks again for your help..
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 10:25:28 AM by now_what »

Offline Ann

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Re: Risks
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2012, 10:37:03 AM »
Now,

YOU HAVE NOT HAD A RISK FOR HIV INFECTION as you have been repeatedly told. If you cannot bring yourself to believe us, go test, collect your negative result and move on with your life.

If you feel unwell, see a doctor. Whatever is going on has NOTHING to do with a virus for which you have NOT been at risk.

You will not be permitted to use this forum to continue to wring your hands over a NO RISK kiss. You've already been given one time out, and you will be given another if you continue to post about this NO RISK kiss.

PLEASE CONSIDER YOURSELF WARNED FOR THE LAST TIME!!!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline now_what

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Re: Risks
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2012, 10:50:10 AM »
Ann,
I am in touch with my doctors but never informed them of my kissing risk. I just shared these details with you guys as I got opportunistic infections which are often seen in people with HIV. I have believed in your assertions for longest period of time. I just wantes to check if these development made you guys change your view.
I am being honest here with you guys and expected a pep-up logical talk to allay my fears..

If that's all you got to say after reviewing my post, then I guess I am knocking at the wrong door.

Still, thanks a bunch...
Take care

Offline Ann

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Re: Risks
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2012, 10:56:33 AM »
Now,

The infections that you've had are NOT exclusive to hiv positive people.

Nothing you've said changes the fact that KISSING IS NOT A RISK FOR HIV INFECTION!!!

I fail to see what more we can do for you. We've explained again and again how hiv is and is not transmitted. It is NOT transmitted through kissing. It IS transmitted through unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse.

I'm giving you that time out you've been warned about. Do not attempt to create a new account to get around you time out because if you do, you will be permanently banned.

Ann

Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline now_what

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Re: Risks
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2012, 05:14:23 AM »
Hi Ann,

Thanks for giving me the timeout. Just to bring you and all up to date, I visited doctos and they suspected Kaposi Sarcoma spot on both by ankles (on the inside in left ankle & on the outside in right ankle). I explained them that I have been having a lot of pain on my penis and buttocs lately and developed a bad case of varicoceles out of nowhere. They know about my history in last couple of years when 2 hemangiomas were found on my liver a year after kissing incidence and also my upper boady twisting towards right side with lose motions. Now, they want to do biopsy on hemangioma to see if this is kaposi sarcoma.

In the mean time, my wife also has been having similar stomach problems and twisted neck where the pain starts right from behind the ears and goes all the way to the back and shoulders. Seems Kaposi Sarcoma virus plas with nerves and blood vessels.

I know I am in deep shit but again thanks for assessing my risk. I am sure kissing wouldn;t have caused the worst feared but again, I got no other exposure..

Thanks...

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Risks
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2012, 05:19:06 AM »
■Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result,  or no-risk situation will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

Offline now_what

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Re: Risks
« Reply #28 on: August 10, 2012, 05:33:58 AM »
Pls ban me forever. You guys are practically generalizing the risk situation based on classigication category just like CDC. However, I have to agree that you are more up to date. Thanks for helping me out. I know I can't ask for more as you are not dealing with just me but a whole lot people having similar exposure like mine where your general statements do apply more and make sense.

Unfortunately, I was looking for some individualistictic support group and help. But again, you have done more than enough for helping me. Thanks.

Offline Ann

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Re: Risks
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2012, 05:55:31 AM »


Now,

We've repeatedly explained to you that kissing is absolutely NOT a risk for hiv infection. If it were, most of the world would be hiv positive by now, just like most people have had a head cold at some point in their life. Head colds CAN be transmitted by kissing. Hiv CANNOT.



Pls ban me forever.


Your wish is my command. You've already had two time outs - you are now permanently banned.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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