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Author Topic: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown  (Read 14079 times)

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Offline ademas

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2009, 09:23:38 PM »
although this would have been fun to see...

Quote
Hilton said he would have run onstage and ripped the tiara off Prejean's head had she won the title.

Offline odyssey

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2009, 10:24:28 PM »
Regarding her answer; "opposite marriage"? What a twit, she could barely form a coherent sentence. I'm glad she lost. The United States should not be represented by someone hateful in any venue, including a Miss USA title.
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Offline Oceanbeach

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2009, 10:30:14 PM »
She is a beauty queen, not supposed to be smart and dedicate her reign to world peace.  They shouldn't be asked difficult or controversial questions on any issues.   ;D  Have the best day
Michael

Offline dtwpuck

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2009, 10:44:48 PM »
She is a beauty queen, not supposed to be smart and dedicate her reign to world peace.  They shouldn't be asked difficult or controversial questions on any issues.   ;D  Have the best day
Michael

Right, why not perpetuate the stereotype that beautiful women are all stupid?    We know beauty queens have never amounted to anything successful, requiring brains, like Jane Pauley.

I think these pageants are a bit silly, but they do publically state that their goal is to find someone articulate who can represent their cause.  This actually does require a certain amount of brains, shockingly enough.  I'm OK with it if they decide to put their money where their proverbial mouth is.

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Offline justaguy

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2009, 11:43:48 PM »
Her answer should have been:

"I personally believe that us americans
are unable to do so because osama.

People out there
in our nation
don't have that,

And I believe that our education
like such as south africa and
such as the Iraq.

everywhere "such as".

And I believe our education
should help the US
should help the south africa
and the iraq
and the asian countries
so we can build up
our future."

 ;D



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Offline tokyodecadence

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2009, 01:24:16 AM »
Her answer should have been:

"I personally believe that us americans
are unable to do so because osama.

People out there
in our nation
don't have that,

And I believe that our education
like such as south africa and
such as the Iraq.

everywhere "such as".

And I believe our education
should help the US
should help the south africa
and the iraq
and the asian countries
so we can build up
our future."

 ;D







AHH! HAHAHA I SO remember that! I don't even watch pageants, and that was a classic.
[.Fod„o.]

Offline Oceanbeach

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2009, 01:47:18 AM »
If elected, I vow to promote Whirled Peas in all 52 states, Alaska and Hawaii  ;D Have the best day
Michael
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 01:54:31 AM by Sonomabeach »

Offline md

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2009, 02:09:53 AM »
Her answer should have been:

"I personally believe that us americans
are unable to do so because osama.

People out there
in our nation
don't have that,

And I believe that our education
like such as south africa and
such as the Iraq.

everywhere "such as".

And I believe our education
should help the US
should help the south africa
and the iraq
and the asian countries
so we can build up
our future."

 ;D

... and here it is ...

Of course, we should all  be thankful that Miss California didn't also play the trumpet  :o
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 02:14:54 AM by md »

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2009, 02:27:18 AM »
I found her delightfully perky.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline ademas

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2009, 02:53:13 AM »
I found her delightfully perky.

Miss California or Miss Hilton?

Offline AndyArrow

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2009, 07:37:55 AM »
Well, that's how she was raised, according to her.

I guess that means if your parents were bigots then it's just fine and dandy if you are too.

I think she should be disqualified from being runner run.
It is not the arrival that matters.  It is the journey along the way. -- Michel Montaigne

Offline David_CA

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2009, 08:53:42 AM »
Prejean Monday said she was raised in a way that you can never compromise your beliefs and your opinions for anything. (from the link in the original post)

I think the fact that she can't realize that HER beliefs belong to HER (and her family, as the case may be) and don't need to be forced on anybody else is what 'cost' her the crown.  If she'd only said that she didn't believe in same-sex marriage but that she understands that other people are different, perhaps things would have turned out differently.  Perhaps she's too young for such insight... or maybe that's something her parents didn't bother to teach her.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 12:01:01 PM by David_NC »
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Offline RapidRod

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2009, 10:55:35 AM »
She is a beauty queen, not supposed to be smart and dedicate her reign to world peace.  They shouldn't be asked difficult or controversial questions on any issues.   ;D  Have the best day
Michael
She was asked a question and she gave HER honest opinion. I see no problem with her answer. I don't have to agree or disagree, but it was HER honest opinion.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2009, 01:06:25 PM »
So, Roddles, if she said "Negroes are an inferior race" you'd giver her a pass as "just having an opinion" instead of calling her a racist?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2009, 01:52:47 PM »
It's just someone's opinion. I may not agree with the opinion, but thats okay. We don't have "thought police" just yet, although I imagine many people in the USA would go for that idea.
This is why I never ask people their opinions on things like this, because I just don't want to know. Whatever you do in your own head is fine with me so long as I don't know about it.

Offline leatherman

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2009, 02:47:54 PM »
the problem I have with her answer is that is was not based on the truth. And she, as a spokesperson for California, wanting to be a spokesperson for the USA, broadcast a totally false impression of how life in America actually is. I'm glad she was called on the carpet rather than allowed to continue spewing forth lies about some of the problems we have with life in our grand nation.

"We live in a land where you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage," Prejean said.

First, what is "opposite marriage"? Where in America has that wording ever been used? The only way I've heard that phrase is usually as a perjorative when a bigot is claiming that homosexuals marrying is so wrong that it's the "opposite of marriage". But I'll give her a pass on that one. Everyone is entitled to stumble over words once in a while.  ;)

However, for nearly the last 250 years, America has NOT been a land where "you can choose same-sex marriage". Matter of fact it's only been a legal option in a few states for a very short time. So her comment is totally wrong, and tries to deflect the underlying bigotry of her opinion by using a lie.

then again, this is all about what a beauty contestant said right? Having grown up during the years when the talk of ERA was all the rage, I'm just amazed that women have allowed these kinds of events, objectifying women, to continue through the years. Although, I do find it more horrifying to see these kinds of contests containing small children ala Jon Bennet.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


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Offline dixieman

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  • Posts: 889
Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2009, 03:11:50 PM »
I agree with David NC and rapidrod on this... this was her opinion... by far I think everyone is becoming too politically correct for afraid of telling how they themselves feel about a question... I guess its better to decieve than to tell the truth. Oh I think she should have chosen a better phrase and wording to answer this question but, it was asked... and she gave her answer whether you agree to it and or not! The judge who asked this question... I find his actions appalling he is by far more of  an embarrasment to the gay community for his out of control behaviour when interviewed on this matter... stereotypical typecast for a gay (homosexual) in this country. His statements that were ----deleated out of the interview were uncalled for...

Offline bocker3

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2009, 06:06:06 PM »
So, I agree that she has a right to her opinion -- but what makes me nuts about this is that now she is whining about the consequences associated with "standing by her beliefs".  She (and the media) keeping harping on how "her beliefs" cost her the crown -- here's another possibility -- maybe Miss NC DESERVED the crown more the Miss CA.  Perhaps she didn't LOSE it at all -- maybe, just maybe, it was WON by Miss NC.

If I were the winner, I'd be pissed off at the assumption that she "lucked into" the crown.

Of course, I think that beauty pageants are a bunch of ridiculous hogwash, but that's for a different thread.

Mike
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Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2009, 06:16:50 PM »
Miss North Carolina kicked her ass fair and square.

Offline Cliff

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2009, 07:09:41 PM »
Well whoever won and regardless of what they think about gay marriage, I hope she knows how to walk!  Hasn't the last two Miss USA winners fallen down while competing at the international thingy? 

But more importantly why do people say "no offense to anyone out there" and then follow it up with a statement that is obviously going to offend?

Offline AndyArrow

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2009, 09:19:48 PM »
Not so long ago you could be fired because you were the wrong race, sex or practiced the wrong religion. 

Bigotry in all forms is wrong and someone shouldn't be given a free pass because they interpreted their religion to allow them to discriminate.  Then a woman at the pageant brought up Adam & Eve, who never had a marriage ceremony in a version of the bible I've ever read.

If she chooses to discriminate she should suffer the consequences. 

As Lord Waheed Ali said to the British Parliament:  Make equality a duty, NOT AN OPTION.

Stand Up to Hatred!
AA
It is not the arrival that matters.  It is the journey along the way. -- Michel Montaigne

Offline Peter Staley

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2009, 08:05:31 AM »
The judge who asked this question... I find his actions appalling he is by far more of  an embarrasment to the gay community for his out of control behaviour when interviewed on this matter... stereotypical typecast for a gay (homosexual) in this country.

And today's AIDSmeds Forums Self-Loathing Statement Award goes to...

God forbid if a bitchy queen appears on national TV.  The shock.  The horror.

Sorry Dixie -- that comment pissed me off, and I couldn't let it stand without remarking on it.  We're actually in agreement about our dislike for how Perez Hilton handled this in the press, but I don't like it when the gays get upset when the world sees a "stereotypical" queen.  They need to see MORE of our diversity (including our stereotypes), not less.

Offline Ann

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2009, 08:15:37 AM »
Not so long ago you could be fired because you were the wrong race, sex or practiced the wrong religion. 

Bigotry in all forms is wrong and someone shouldn't be given a free pass because they interpreted their religion to allow them to discriminate.  Then a woman at the pageant brought up Adam & Eve, who never had a marriage ceremony in a version of the bible I've ever read.

If she chooses to discriminate she should suffer the consequences. 

As Lord Waheed Ali said to the British Parliament:  Make equality a duty, NOT AN OPTION.

Stand Up to Hatred!

AA

Absolutely. What Andy said.
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Offline komnaes

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2009, 08:18:38 AM »
So, Roddles, if she said "Negroes are an inferior race" you'd giver her a pass as "just having an opinion" instead of calling her a racist?

Oh yeah, supported by religion as well. I mean, if God has wanted races to mix, wouldn't He has created just one single race instead of black, brown, white and anything in between?! Think about it! Interracial marriage is sooooo against God. Just people expressing "opinions".. no need to be soooooo PC about it.. right?!

But seriously, what was Perez doing judging a beauty pageant.. ? He could have done a far more entertaining sideshow by giving totally bitchy and devastating but horrendous commentaries on how silly the whole thing is in the first place.. ;D
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Offline RapidRod

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2009, 09:47:46 AM »
Oh yeah, supported by religion as well. I mean, if God has wanted races to mix, wouldn't He has created just one single race instead of black, brown, white and anything in between?! Think about it! Interracial marriage is sooooo against God. Just people expressing "opinions".. no need to be soooooo PC about it.. right?!

But seriously, what was Perez doing judging a beauty pageant.. ? He could have done a far more entertaining sideshow by giving totally bitchy and devastating but horrendous commentaries on how silly the whole thing is in the first place.. ;D
I have to agree, why was he judging a beauty pagent? Had it been a drag queen pagent then I wouldn't see a problem.  Miss Philicia, I don't think being Gay has anything to do with race, nor was the question asked about race.   ::)

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2009, 10:56:57 AM »
And today's AIDSmeds Forums Self-Loathing Statement Award goes to...

Sorry, but being critical of another gay person doesn't make you "self-loathing". Just because someone doesn't agree with the status quo of homosexuality does not mean they are self-loathing. I don't like it either when all we see on TV is "stereotypical" homosexuals. It sends a bad message to people. The homosexuals they show on TV typically are promiscuous, can't hold down a job, and are addicted to drugs and alcohol. I have never been addicted to alcohol or drugs, I have only ever smoked one or two marijuana joints in my life. I can keep down a job, and I am not promiscuous.
When people see people like Perez Hilton are on TV they begin to think that there is something wrong with all of us. They begin to think that being gay is all about fashion, sex, and being shallow.

And what qualifications does Perez Hilton have to judge a Miss USA pageant anyway? He runs a blog. Putting Perez Hilton on the show really cheapens the effect.

Offline sharkdiver

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2009, 11:24:30 AM »
Sorry, but being critical of another gay person doesn't make you "self-loathing". Just because someone doesn't agree with the status quo of homosexuality does not mean they are self-loathing. I don't like it either when all we see on TV is "stereotypical" homosexuals. It sends a bad message to people. The homosexuals they show on TV typically are promiscuous, can't hold down a job, and are addicted to drugs and alcohol. I have never been addicted to alcohol or drugs, I have only ever smoked one or two marijuana joints in my life. I can keep down a job, and I am not promiscuous.
When people see people like Perez Hilton are on TV they begin to think that there is something wrong with all of us. They begin to think that being gay is all about fashion, sex, and being shallow.

And what qualifications does Perez Hilton have to judge a Miss USA pageant anyway? He runs a blog. Putting Perez Hilton on the show really cheapens the effect.


The remarks were about context and the history of the poster.

Ya I guess Ellen sends a bad message because she  is married and a successful celebrity and....What current TV personalities are you talking about?    and who is "THEY"?

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2009, 11:34:45 AM »
I have to agree, why was he judging a beauty pagent? Had it been a drag queen pagent then I wouldn't see a problem.  Miss Philicia, I don't think being Gay has anything to do with race, nor was the question asked about race.   ::)

So you see absolutely no similarities between the civil rights movement for African Americans in the 20th century and the current one for gay people?  I'll assume by that statement you're indicating that being gay is a choice.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2009, 11:37:22 AM »

The remarks were about context and the history of the poster.

Ya I guess Ellen sends a bad message because she  is married and a successful celebrity and....What current TV personalities are you talking about?    and who is "THEY"?

What is it with you people? Where in my post did I say that every single solitary gay person on Television is a stereotypical homosexual? Where exactly did I say that? Please point out where I said that. Thanks.

Offline AlanBama

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2009, 11:38:03 AM »
I don't like it either when all we see on TV is "stereotypical" homosexuals. It sends a bad message to people. The homosexuals they show on TV typically are promiscuous, can't hold down a job, and are addicted to drugs and alcohol.

I'm not sure what TV shows you are referring to, but I haven't seen them......
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2009, 11:41:15 AM »
What is it with you people? Where in my post did I say that every single solitary gay person on Television is a stereotypical homosexual? Where exactly did I say that? Please point out where I said that. Thanks.

Are you dyslexic or something?  When you write "when all we see on TV is "stereotypical" homosexuals" what are we supposed to read that as?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2009, 11:43:15 AM »
So you see absolutely no similarities between the civil rights movement for African Americans in the 20th century and the current one for gay people?  I'll assume by that statement you're indicating that being gay is a choice.

The difference is is that a hell of a lot of people do not give a shit about homosexuals. With Christians and Muslims each having over a billion followers, there is a HUGE, a MASSIVE portion of the world's population that does not see it the way we do. And that is just the Christians and Muslims. I have really found over the past few years, since I have moved to this area that people really don't like gay people. They may say they love us anyway, but they don't. And unlike skin colour which is obviously a trait that can't be changed, homosexuality is something that is on the inside. So it is a lot easier for people to say that it is choice, and therefore a lot easier for them to not care about our issues.

I don't know if any of you have ever heard of "Landover Baptist", but it is a parody church of Christian fundamentalism. There they have "ex-Negro" organisations where blacks can become good, white Americans.

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2009, 11:44:32 AM »
Are you dyslexic or something?  When you write "when all we see on TV is "stereotypical" homosexuals" what are we supposed to read that as?

It is not meant to be taken literally as every single solitary person on TV. I am not going to write a 400pg post exculding each individual who doesn't fit the description I am taking about.

Why is it that in the politically correct world that when you say something like "Blacks have higher amounts of people in prison compared to other population in the USA" that you are oblgated to say.... "but I know this one person who is black and not in prison, and I know this other person who is not in prison, and Barack Obama is not in prison, and Colin Powell is not in prison, and Jesse Jackson is not in prison, and the my best friends mother's postman's son's bestfriend is not in prison, and this guy I went to high school with is not in prison, and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.". It is usually implied when someone makes a statement that they are not talking about each and every single solitary person in that group, unless you are hyper politically correct.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 11:51:34 AM by poz4afewyears »

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2009, 11:46:52 AM »
I'm not sure what TV shows you are referring to, but I haven't seen them......

Really? You've never seen "Queer as Folk"? How many of the people on that show were promiscuous and addicted to drugs? Have you ever seen "Will and Grace"? Wasn't Jack a flamboyant person? Didn't he sleep with every person he could? Wasn't he completely unable to hold down a job?

Maybe you aren't looking. Or maybe you don't want to see how the media bashes us underhandedly.

Offline sharkdiver

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2009, 11:47:43 AM »
What is it with you people? Where in my post did I say that every single solitary gay person on Television is a stereotypical homosexual? Where exactly did I say that? Please point out where I said that. Thanks.

AlanBama pointed it out.  oh and now Miss P





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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2009, 11:49:44 AM »
So you're proposing that there shouldn't be any representation of such things?  Or just less?  What's the acceptable amount?

Is the representation of heterosexuals all positive on television?

Sorry honey, but you're not making a lot of sense.

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Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #37 on: April 22, 2009, 11:54:15 AM »
So you're proposing that there shouldn't be any representation of such things?  Or just less?  What's the acceptable amount?

Where did I propose that?  ??? Oh yeah, I didn't.

But what is wrong with a more balanced view of the homosexual community? Are the hyper politically correct people always screaming that the black community needs better role models on TV? What is wrong with more positive homosexual role models on TV?

Offline David_CA

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #38 on: April 22, 2009, 12:00:42 PM »
The difference is is that a hell of a lot of people do not give a shit about homosexuals. With Christians and Muslims each having over a billion followers, there is a HUGE, a MASSIVE portion of the world's population that does not see it the way we do. And that is just the Christians and Muslims. I have really found over the past few years, since I have moved to this area that people really don't like gay people. They may say they love us anyway, but they don't. And unlike skin colour which is obviously a trait that can't be changed, homosexuality is something that is on the inside. So it is a lot easier for people to say that it is choice, and therefore a lot easier for them to not care about our issues.

I'd say that a lot of people don't give a shit about other people, gay or not.  It's just that we're an easier target largely because we're not a 'protected' class.  We're just the underdog that's easy to kick without recourse.  Folks back in the day used to use biblical references to support legislation prohibiting marriage between the races and even to support slavery.  Skin color may be on the outside, but love, affection, and desire for another person certainly aren't.  As for the Christians and Muslims that don't like us, a lot of them don't even like each other, so I don't see a lot of problem there.  People often are afraid and don't like things that are different, that are out of their comfort zone (ooh, there's an insect, better kill it!). 

As for a gay guy acting like a total queen in public... so f'in what!  It's ok.  I know a lot of gay men that act like that, and, while not something that particularly attracts me, I'm not going to criticize them for it.  The diversity of 'our' culture is partly what makes it so interesting and unique.  I can act as butch or as flaming as anybody, but why should I act?  What's wrong with me just being me?


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Offline sharkdiver

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2009, 12:03:06 PM »

Although there are some people that don't want or care about marriage equality, it would be naive to think that the conservative groups will stop there. Several CA groups are already working on a proposition to be put on the ballet to overturn legislation that protects GLBT students in schools.

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2009, 12:03:30 PM »

I don't like it either when all we see on TV is "stereotypical" homosexuals



What is it with you people? Where in my post did I say that every single solitary gay person on Television is a stereotypical homosexual? Where exactly did I say that? Please point out where I said that. Thanks.



Are you dyslexic or something?  When you write "when all we see on TV is "stereotypical" homosexuals" what are we supposed to read that as?



It is not meant to be taken literally as every single solitary person on TV. I am not going to write a 400pg post exculding each individual who doesn't fit the description I am taking about.


If you didn't mean for "all" to be "taken literally as every single solitary person on TV" then you should have been more clear and said "some", "several", "a few", or a whole host of other short words or phrases that convey your meaning. Don't post blanket statements and expect to not be called on them.


Really? You've never seen "Queer as Folk"? How many of the people on that show were promiscuous and addicted to drugs? Have you ever seen "Will and Grace"? Wasn't Jack a flamboyant person? Didn't he sleep with every person he could? Wasn't he completely unable to hold down a job?

Maybe you aren't looking. Or maybe you don't want to see how the media bashes us underhandedly.


I've watched both programs, the original Queer as Folk (British) and Will and Grace. In neither program were ALL the gay characters negative stereotypes.

I think everyone here will agree with you that there should be a balanced and positive  portrayal of gay men and women in television and films, but YOU are the one who seemed to claim there aren't ANY. Maybe you just don't recognise the ones which do exist.

Ann

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #41 on: April 22, 2009, 12:07:20 PM »
So you see absolutely no similarities between the civil rights movement for African Americans in the 20th century and the current one for gay people?  I'll assume by that statement you're indicating that being gay is a choice.
I don't believe that the question of being Gay is a choice was asked? I believe the complant here was Miss California's reply to a question that didn't concern the pagent and that she gave her honest opinion which you seem to differ, which is YOUR opinion. I don't agree and I don't believe the question should have ever been asked.

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2009, 12:10:34 PM »
Aside from Ellen I don't really see any. I personally think the media takes jabs at us as much as it can. And gay people eat these shows up, of course I didn't mean ALL gay people because I didn't really like them, and the guy next door to me who is gay didn't like them, and someone he met online said he didn't like them, and my grandmother's remarried husband's daughter's partner's best friend doesn't like them.
And nowhere did I say that ALL people on Queer as Folk acted one way. My question was "How many of the people on that show were promiscuous and addicted to drugs?", not "Didn't you know that ALL people on that show....".

I will not adjust my language to make the politically correct happy. If I say "Americans are so religious", I don't mean every single solitary American who is alive today, and I believe it is implied.

Offline Ann

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2009, 12:10:47 PM »

As for a gay guy acting like a total queen in public... so f'in what!  It's ok.  I know a lot of gay men that act like that, and, while not something that particularly attracts me, I'm not going to criticize them for it.  The diversity of 'our' culture is partly what makes it so interesting and unique.  I can act as butch or as flaming as anybody, but why should I act?  What's wrong with me just being me?


I agree. In fact, I known a helluva lot more ultra-macho-in-your-face acting straight men than I've known ultra-flamboyant-in-your-face acting gay men and I'll tell you right now I'd prefer to spend time in the company of a flamboyant man than a macho man. I always want to say to a macho-macho man; get over yourself already! Bloody cave man mentalities I cannot abide.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #44 on: April 22, 2009, 12:11:49 PM »
I don't believe that the question of being Gay is a choice was asked? I believe the complant here was Miss California's reply to a question that didn't concern the pagent and that she gave her honest opinion which you seem to differ, which is YOUR opinion. I don't agree and I don't believe the question should have ever been asked.

Ok Rodney, if she'd been asked if she thought marriage between a white person and a black person were ok and she said NO, wouldn't you then think she was being a racist? THAT is how the issues are the same.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #45 on: April 22, 2009, 12:12:16 PM »
I don't believe that the question of being Gay is a choice was asked? I believe the complant here was Miss California's reply to a question that didn't concern the pagent and that she gave her honest opinion which you seem to differ, which is YOUR opinion. I don't agree and I don't believe the question should have ever been asked.

RapidRod, does it seem like everyone on here attacks your opinions and twists your words so that you are no longer saying what you originally said? Does it seem like people gang up on you when they really don't even understand what it was you were trying to say in the first place?

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #46 on: April 22, 2009, 12:14:04 PM »

I will not adjust my language to make the politically correct happy. If I say "Americans are so religious", I don't mean every single solitary American who is alive today, and I believe it is implied.

Fine by me, but don't expect to get a "get out of jail free" card and not be pulled when you say something patently absurd or bigoted.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Ann

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #47 on: April 22, 2009, 12:16:14 PM »
RapidRod, does it seem like everyone on here attacks your opinions and twists your words so that you are no longer saying what you originally said? Does it seem like people gang up on you when they really don't even understand what it was you were trying to say in the first place?

You wrote what you wrote and it's right there on the screen in front of me. Nobody twisted your words, but due to your own ineptness with the language, you were misunderstood. There's a HUGE difference.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Ann

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #48 on: April 22, 2009, 12:19:08 PM »

Aside from Ellen I don't really see any.


What about the gay couple on Desperate Housewives? They seem to me to be a committed, loving, hard-working couple. They're not any more or any less dysfunctional than the other family groupings on Wisteria Lane.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2009, 12:20:17 PM »
Ok Rodney, if she'd been asked if she thought marriage between a white person and a black person were ok and she said NO, wouldn't you then think she was being a racist? THAT is how the issues are the same.

Ann

Ann, was she asked that question? The issues are not the same because we don't know her opinion of mixed race marriages, she wasn't asked that question about mixed race marriages. She was asked about gay marriage which she gave her honest opinion. If people don't want others opinions for christ sakes don't ask the question. It's really that simple.

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #50 on: April 22, 2009, 12:23:33 PM »
... words have meaning
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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #51 on: April 22, 2009, 12:25:37 PM »
The fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter if every gay person on the face of the planet has two really limp wrists or not -- they deserve to be treated equally under the law.

END OF DISCUSSION.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #52 on: April 22, 2009, 12:26:57 PM »
If people don't want others opinions for christ sakes don't ask the question. It's really that simple.

I second that. If you don't want to know how someone feels about something then don't ask.

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #53 on: April 22, 2009, 12:29:21 PM »
Ann, was she asked that question? The issues are not the same because we don't know her opinion of mixed race marriages, she wasn't asked that question about mixed race marriages. She was asked about gay marriage which she gave her honest opinion. If people don't want others opinions for christ sakes don't ask the question. It's really that simple.

~bangs head on desk~


~leaves room - with a headache~
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Ann

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #54 on: April 22, 2009, 12:30:01 PM »
I second that. If you don't want to know how someone feels about something then don't ask.

~hits head on doorframe on way out~
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2009, 12:30:41 PM »
Furthermore, I'm a big, swishy, designer wearing, high pitch voiced, fierce ruling fairy that got AIDS from being really, really promiscuous -- AND I DON'T CARE WHO KNOWS IT.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2009, 12:32:50 PM »
.. I'll tell you right now I'd prefer to spend time in the company of a flamboyant man than a macho man. I always want to say to a macho-macho man; get over yourself already! Bloody cave man mentalities I cannot abide.

But have we turned you into a big enough faghag already..?  :D
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Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #57 on: April 22, 2009, 12:33:26 PM »
You wrote what you wrote and it's right there on the screen in front of me. Nobody twisted your words, but due to your own ineptness with the language, you were misunderstood. There's a HUGE difference.

Ann


No, I understand the language pretty well, thank you. Just because I am not in a constant state of apology for the things that I have said. And just because when I make a statement I don't end it with "except for...." and list every single person who I know who doesn't fit the mold.
The fact is, based off of all of the different places I have lived and traveled to, Americans are FAR more religious then people from other countries. But wait! My professor isn't religious, and my brother isn't religious, and the manager at the grocery store on the other side of town isn't religious, and the person I tutor isn't religious. No, sorry, not going to say all that. Americans AS A WHOLE are more religious then other people from other countries I have met. Does that mean that there are no religious people in other countries? No, I didn't say that either.

Offline Ann

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #58 on: April 22, 2009, 12:39:52 PM »
~leans back into room and shouts~

Bigoted behaviour triumphs when good people keep their mouths shut.

~sighs, and returns~

No, I understand the language pretty well, thank you. Just because I am not in a constant state of apology for the things that I have said. And just because when I make a statement I don't end it with "except for...." and list every single person who I know who doesn't fit the mold.
The fact is, based off of all of the different places I have lived and traveled to, Americans are FAR more religious then people from other countries. But wait! My professor isn't religious, and my brother isn't religious, and the manager at the grocery store on the other side of town isn't religious, and the person I tutor isn't religious. No, sorry, not going to say all that. Americans AS A WHOLE are more religious then other people from other countries I have met. Does that mean that there are no religious people in other countries? No, I didn't say that either.

And I bet you anything that if you saw me posting something like "ALL people on Atripla suffer from disabling depression and sleep-issues, you'd pull ME on my blanket statement and you'd be right to do so and tell  me I should have said SOME people suffer from these side-effects.

I see no difference to this and your blanket statements. But whatever. I think I'll go talk to the brick wall in my garden - it would probably make more sense.

But have we turned you into a big enough faghag already..?  :D

I've been a faghag forever, dahling!  :-*
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline komnaes

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #59 on: April 22, 2009, 12:41:44 PM »
Furthermore, I'm a big, swishy, designer wearing, high pitch voiced, fierce ruling fairy that got AIDS from being really, really promiscuous -- AND I DON'T CARE WHO KNOWS IT.

Oh yeah, funny how you don't hear from a lot of wife beating, prostitutes screwing, tobocco chewing macho straight men that got AIDS by being really, really promiscuous -- rarely works the other way round, seems to me.

More power to us queens I say...

Just my opinion, though I wasn't being asked.. ;) now where is that desk for me to hang my head on..
Aug 07 Diagnosed
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Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
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Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #60 on: April 22, 2009, 12:47:37 PM »
*sigh*
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Offline RapidRod

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #61 on: April 22, 2009, 01:01:27 PM »
Yes it is fascinating how if one asks questions and you don't like their replies they become racists and bigots. Like us being gay makes us "SPECIAL" and everyone has to agree with us because we are always right and politically correct.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 01:03:28 PM by RapidRod »

Offline AlanBama

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #62 on: April 22, 2009, 01:09:15 PM »
The woman was asked how she felt about gay marriage -- she gave her honest opinion, that is true.

The question is, what are we to DEDUCE about her, from her stated opinion?  I deduced that she is a bigot who does not believe that gay people deserve equal treatment under the law.

When I saw her on Access Hollywood (or one of those entertainment shows) I deduced that she felt that Perez Hilton is a big old fag, and what right did he have to ask her that question?

Just my take on it.
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Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #63 on: April 22, 2009, 01:21:20 PM »
I like how some wish to paint bigotry, whether it be racial or sexuality based in nature, as simply a matter of "political correctness" as opposed to whether or not it's actually moral or even, and mor importantly, legal.

FASCINATING.  But hey, it never surprises me that some want to be apologists while simultaneously pulling the knee pads from the top shelf.
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Offline Ann

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #64 on: April 22, 2009, 01:59:14 PM »
Yes it is fascinating how if one asks questions and you don't like their replies they become racists and bigots.

Well, yeah, if their reply is a racist or bigoted opinion, then it only goes to follow that they are a racist and/or a bigot! Rocket science it ain't!
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Offline ademas

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #65 on: April 22, 2009, 02:28:11 PM »
poz4afewyears and RapidRod...oy vey...
I'm completely lost trying to follow the logic in your arguments.
I'm thinking (at this point) that it's just stuborness.

Offline David_CA

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #66 on: April 22, 2009, 02:48:22 PM »
The woman was asked how she felt about gay marriage -- she gave her honest opinion, that is true.

The question is, what are we to DEDUCE about her, from her stated opinion?  I deduced that she is a bigot who does not believe that gay people deserve equal treatment under the law.

When I saw her on Access Hollywood (or one of those entertainment shows) I deduced that she felt that Perez Hilton is a big old fag, and what right did he have to ask her that question?

Just my take on it.

Bingo!  I guess she's a bit too young to know about Anita Bryant and how her homophobia killed her career.  I think Alan and I are pretty close in our opinions...from what I posted about it earlier:

Quote
If she'd only said that she didn't believe in same-sex marriage but that she understands that other people are different, perhaps things would have turned out differently. 

RapidRod, does it seem like everyone on here attacks your opinions and twists your words so that you are no longer saying what you originally said? Does it seem like people gang up on you when they really don't even understand what it was you were trying to say in the first place?

Personally, I've not had that problem here in over three years, and I'm one of the most opinionated people I know!  Granted, I don't post as often as Rod, the fierce Miss Philicia, or Ann.  I think about what I'm posting and try to consider how it might be interpreted.  There's generally a way to convey 'most any opinion without pissing people off.  If I could offer a bit of helpful advice... feel free to give your opinions while acknowledging that they are only your opinions and not truths and try not to use always, never, all, or none when referring to things or people that are not extremely close to you (and even then qualify what you say).  For example, if you'd said that 'most of the Americans that you've come across have been more religious than the people you've met in other countries,' I'll bet nobody would have bothered to challenge you on it.  This is just a suggestion; feel free to take it or leave it.
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Offline Ann

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #67 on: April 22, 2009, 03:32:44 PM »

Personally, I've not had that problem here in over three years, and I'm one of the most opinionated people I know!  Granted, I don't post as often as Rod, the fierce Miss Philicia, or Ann.  I think about what I'm posting and try to consider how it might be interpreted.  There's generally a way to convey 'most any opinion without pissing people off. 


Just for the record ;) 7,634 of my posts are in the Am I forum, which I consider to be my bit for prevention. If you subtract them, I've only got 4,310 eleswhere, as of this post. 220 of those are in the bin, and 124 are I-don't-know-where, possibly in the now-defunct CSI:NY forum. So that's 3,966 posts, not much more than you, David. I'm not being defensive - you just got me wondering how much I do actually post over here as opposed to over in the scary place.

I may have a lot of posts to my name, but I also think and empathise and do my best to not be intentionally obtuse or offensive. I don't always succeed, but I try to learn from my mistakes. Generally speaking. Sometimes I fail at that too, but don't we all?

We've all got far more in common than we sometimes realise and this is part of the problem. When we focus on minor differences, we lose sight of our major similarities.  The primal need to love and be loved by another human being is one of our major similarities. The gender of the person(s) we love is a minor difference.

When I say "we", I don't mean straight people, gay people, Christians, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, beauty queens or bloggers. I mean all of us; the human race.

Ann


edited because I also sometimes split my infinitives, amongst other things.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 03:39:14 PM by Ann »
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Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #68 on: April 22, 2009, 03:51:17 PM »
The problem is, is that the definition of "bigot" is becoming so broad. The definition of "homophobia" is too. The dictionary defines homophobia as "an extreme and irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people". I don't think that most people around today who are called "homophobes" are actually that.
I am gay and I am not the least bit offended by Miss California's comment. It's not like she was out in the street holding up signs saying that all fags are going to Hell or anything. People are allowed to disagree with homosexuality, and most people do. That is their right. Just like it is my right to disagree with their disagreement. I imagine most people here would support the idea of "thought police" or "thought crimes", but we haven't quite reached that point just yet.
This reminds me of the "tolerance" people show my boyfriend, who is black, when he tells them he didn't vote for Barack Obama. Like Peter Staley, they assume that he must be self loathing and that he must hate his race, which he doesn't. So much for "tolerance" and "diversity", huh?

Oh wait. Oh my Gosh. Is Barack Obama a bigot? I am pretty sure he said word for word that he didn't support same sex marriage. And I didn't see the liberals crying foul then. Quite the contrary, Barack Obama has obtained a sort of "Messiah" status among the libs. Why was Barack Obama not labeled a "bigot" when he said he didn't support same sex marriage? Yet, if George Bush had said that same thing, and he did, the libs would tear him a new asshole. "Tolerance" and "diversity" huh? It amazes me the things people will overlook when it is someone they support. Guess what? I didn't vote for the "bigot". What does it make you if you voted for Obama and he doesn't support same sex marriage? A bigot? Self loathing?

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #69 on: April 22, 2009, 03:52:56 PM »
Yes it is fascinating how if one asks questions and you don't like their replies they become racists and bigots. Like us being gay makes us "SPECIAL" and everyone has to agree with us because we are always right and politically correct.

RapidRod,

Do you remember when Barack Obama stated that he didn't support same sex marriage? Was he labeled a "bigot"?

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #70 on: April 22, 2009, 03:58:36 PM »
A direct quote from Obama during an MTV interview "marriage is between a man and a woman".

This is the Messiah of the democrats? A bigot?  :o How self loathing can you be to have voted for Obama? He's a bigot. Wa-wa-wa. OMG. I insulted the messiah.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #71 on: April 22, 2009, 03:59:39 PM »
Well, yeah, if their reply is a racist or bigoted opinion, then it only goes to follow that they are a racist and/or a bigot! Rocket science it ain't!
Ann,  So you are saying that Miss California's  opinions were bigoted and racist, because that is how SHE believes? I'm Gay and I did not take her opinion as bigoted or racist. I know what you posted is YOUR opinion Ann of which I don't agree which I guess makes me bigoted and racist because I didn't find her opinions to be bigoted or racist. Sorry.

Offline David_CA

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #72 on: April 22, 2009, 04:01:41 PM »
The problem is, is that the definition of "bigot" is becoming so broad. The definition of "homophobia" is too. The dictionary defines homophobia as "an extreme and irrational aversion to homosexuality and homosexual people". I don't think that most people around today who are called "homophobes" are actually that.
I am gay and I am not the least bit offended by Miss California's comment. It's not like she was out in the street holding up signs saying that all fags are going to Hell or anything. People are allowed to disagree with homosexuality, and most people do. That is their right. Just like it is my right to disagree with their disagreement. I imagine most people here would support the idea of "thought police" or "thought crimes", but we haven't quite reached that point just yet.
This reminds me of the "tolerance" people show my boyfriend, who is black, when he tells them he didn't vote for Barack Obama. Like Peter Staley, they assume that he must be self loathing and that he must hate his race, which he doesn't. So much for "tolerance" and "diversity", huh?

Oh wait. Oh my Gosh. Is Barack Obama a bigot? I am pretty sure he said word for word that he didn't support same sex marriage. And I didn't see the liberals crying foul then. Quite the contrary, Barack Obama has obtained a sort of "Messiah" status among the libs. Why was Barack Obama not labeled a "bigot" when he said he didn't support same sex marriage? Yet, if George Bush had said that same thing, and he did, the libs would tear him a new asshole. "Tolerance" and "diversity" huh? It amazes me the things people will overlook when it is someone they support. Guess what? I didn't vote for the "bigot". What does it make you if you voted for Obama and he doesn't support same sex marriage? A bigot? Self loathing?

From www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.samesexmarriage.html
Quote
Barack Obama
Opposes same-sex marriage, but also opposes a constitutional ban. Says he would repeal the Defense of Marriage Act and voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment. As stated on the Obama campaign Web site, he supports full civil unions that "give same-sex couples equal legal rights and privileges as married couples, including the right to assist their loved ones in times of emergency as well as equal health insurance, employment benefits, and property and adoption rights."
Obama sounds like he's proposing same sex marriage with a different name.

From www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/02/24/elec04.prez.bush.marriage/index.html
Quote
Bush calls for ban on same-sex marriages
 Democrats: President using amendment issue for re-election bid
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Bush endorsed a constitutional amendment Tuesday that would restrict marriage to two people of the opposite sex but leave open the possibility that states could allow civil unions.

"The union of a man and a woman is the most enduring human institution, honored and encouraged in all cultures and by every religious faith," Bush said.

"Marriage cannot be severed from its cultural, religious and natural roots without weakening the good influence of society."
there's more; I only posted part of it. 


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Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #73 on: April 22, 2009, 04:03:23 PM »
RapidRod,

These people have double standards. Miss California says that she doesn't agree with same sex marriage and she is a bigot whore and gets ripped a new asshole. Barack Obama says the exact same thing when asked his opinion and he gets elected President.

Democrats typically do shit like that. They say one thing and do another.

Offline David_CA

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #74 on: April 22, 2009, 04:05:36 PM »
Ann,  So you are saying that Miss California's  opinions were bigoted and racist, because that is how SHE believes? I'm Gay and I did not take her opinion as bigoted or racist. I know what you posted is YOUR opinion Ann of which I don't agree which I guess makes me bigoted and racist because I didn't find her opinions to be bigoted or racist. Sorry.

I hate to get involved in this, but just because one US citizen of African descent doesn't get offended at the 'N' word doesn't make the White Supremist who calls him that any less of a bigot.
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11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
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06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
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Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #75 on: April 22, 2009, 04:06:02 PM »
From www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues/issues.samesexmarriage.htmlObama sounds like he's proposing same sex marriage with a different name.

From www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/02/24/elec04.prez.bush.marriage/index.html there's more; I only posted part of it. 




Oh okay, see, I knew you guys would try to spin Obama's comment. He didn't mean he opposes same sex marriage when he said he opposes same sex marriage. He meant something else. So he lied? The same thing democrats hate Bush for, for lying, and they support Obama lying. Great. Glad we got that squared away.

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #76 on: April 22, 2009, 04:07:23 PM »
I hate to get involved in this, but just because one US citizen of African descent doesn't get offended at the 'N' word doesn't make the White Supremist who calls him that any less of a bigot.

She didn't use a slur. She didn't say "I don't think faggots should be able to marry". Or maybe I missed that. Is this more of that double speak stuff where a person says one thing, but you have to get out your special dictionary to see what they really meant when they said what they said.

Offline David_CA

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #77 on: April 22, 2009, 04:07:55 PM »
RapidRod,

These people have double standards. Miss California says that she doesn't agree with same sex marriage and she is a bigot whore and gets ripped a new asshole. Barack Obama says the exact same thing when asked his opinion and he gets elected President.

Democrats typically do shit like that. They say one thing and do another.

No, it's the conservatives (Republicans) who don't have the good sense to realize that their discriminatory onions are their opinions and not truths.
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05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
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Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #78 on: April 22, 2009, 04:09:00 PM »
Someone likes red herrings and false equivalencies here.  They either think we're dumb, or perhaps, and more likely, they're a bit psychotic.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #79 on: April 22, 2009, 04:11:33 PM »
No, it's the conservatives (Republicans) who don't have the good sense to realize that their discriminatory onions are their opinions and not truths.

Okay, so just so we are on the same page. If a Republican says they don't support same sex marriage it is wrong. If a democrats says it then it is okay, because they really meant something else when they said it they just didn't feel like saying what they really wanted to say? Do I have that right?

Offline David_CA

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #80 on: April 22, 2009, 04:12:36 PM »
Someone likes red herrings and false equivalencies here.  They either think we're dumb, or perhaps, and more likely, they're a bit psychotic.

You mean one of these:

[attachment deleted by admin]
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Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #81 on: April 22, 2009, 04:15:25 PM »
Nobody is changing the subject. I am making a comparison. Miss California said she didn't support same sex marriage, Barack Obama said he didn't support same sex marriage. One is a bigot, one is not. One gets torn apart, the other gets elected President.

Offline David_CA

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #82 on: April 22, 2009, 04:17:01 PM »
Okay, so just so we are on the same page. If a Republican says they don't support same sex marriage it is wrong. If a democrats says it then it is okay, because they really meant something else when they said it they just didn't feel like saying what they really wanted to say? Do I have that right?

You're almost right.  Read a bit more though:
Quote
Opposes same-sex marriage, but also opposes a constitutional ban. Says he would repeal the Defense of Marriage Act and voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment. As stated on the Obama campaign Web site, he supports full civil unions that "give same-sex couples equal legal rights and privileges as married couples, including the right to assist their loved ones in times of emergency as well as equal health insurance, employment benefits, and property and adoption rights."
He opposes same-sex marriage (his opinion) but opposes forcing his opinion on us (his actions).  I don't know how this is really relevant to what the first loser (to Miss NC, I might add  ;)) has said.
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Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #83 on: April 22, 2009, 04:19:54 PM »
So? He still opposes same sex marriage? I don't care if he would try to make an amendment to the constitution or not. He still opposes same sex marriage.

It is relevant, like I said, because this woman is being torn a new asshole for her opinion, which is the same opinion as that of Barack Obama and which you just admitted is his opinion, yet when Barack Obama say it it is totally okay. When did Miss California say that she supports legislation banning same sex marriage?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 04:22:21 PM by poz4afewyears »

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #84 on: April 22, 2009, 04:21:09 PM »
He opposes same-sex marriage (his opinion)

I just wanted to quote this part incase it gets edited later on.

She said her opinion, she is a bigot. Obama says his opinion, he is a new messiah.

Offline ademas

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #85 on: April 22, 2009, 04:22:12 PM »
Are we really comparing political expediency in Presidential politics to Ms. California's ridiculous answer in a beauty pageant?

Please...Mary...

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #86 on: April 22, 2009, 04:24:36 PM »
My only question was why is it okay for Obama to not support same sex marriage, yet it is not okay for this woman to? From what I gather, Barack Obama didn't really mean he opposes same sex marriage when he said word for word that he opposes same sex marriage. He meant something totally different. Why the double standard?

This doesn't suprise me though, democrats are known for saying one thing and meaning another.

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #87 on: April 22, 2009, 04:28:21 PM »

This doesn't suprise me though, democrats are known for saying one thing and meaning another.

You mean like saying to the nation "We don't torture" while breaking the law and doing so 183 times in one month?

k

but this is irrelevant to the discussion, hence the red herring
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Offline David_CA

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #88 on: April 22, 2009, 04:30:42 PM »
My only question was why is it okay for Obama to not support same sex marriage, yet it is not okay for this woman to? From what I gather, Barack Obama didn't really mean he opposes same sex marriage when he said word for word that he opposes same sex marriage. He meant something totally different. Why the double standard?
You take one line from Obama and expect that anybody really thinks that's all he means when the rest of his wording is right there for you to read?  Personally, I think that the same-sex marriage route wasn't the best one.  I still think that pushing for the same rights (that married couples have) under a different name (union) and then going after the word (marriage) later would have been the right way to go.  It may not be too late, as Obama says he wants us to have the same rights but with a different name.  That's not a double standard; that's simply a way to reach the goal.

(edited for punctuation)
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Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #89 on: April 22, 2009, 04:31:22 PM »
So it is irrelevant to point out that the man most of you voted for said the exact same thing this woman did? I don't see how that is irrelevant.

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #90 on: April 22, 2009, 04:32:58 PM »
You take one line from Obama and expect that anybody really thinks that's all he means when the rest of his wording is right there for you to read?  Personally, I think that the same-sex marriage route wasn't the best one.  I still think that pushing for the same rights (that married couples have) under a different name (union) and then going after the word (marriage) later would have been the right way to go.  It may not be too late, as Obama says he wants us to have the same rights but with a different name.  That's not a double standard; that's simply a way to reach the goal.

(edited for punctuation)

That's called speaking in code. I don't speak in code. If you say you don't support same sex marriage I assume you don't support same sex marriage. I don't assume you mean something else.

I didn't vote for Barack Obama because he doesn't support same sex marriage, which I do. If he does support same sex marriage he should have said so instead of speaking in code.

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #91 on: April 22, 2009, 04:33:51 PM »
If you ask me, this all has to do a bit with another thread on this board and Peter Staley's reply.  Just sayin'
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Offline ademas

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #92 on: April 22, 2009, 04:36:02 PM »
Are we going to work our way around to Hitler soon?  Please?

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #93 on: April 22, 2009, 04:40:33 PM »
I don't see how it would go to that.

I was pointing out that liberals are tearing this woman apart for her comment, yet the exact same person they voted for as president said the exact same thing and he was not called a bigot.

If Miss California is a bigot for saying that she doesn't agree with same sex marriage. Then so is every other person who says they don't support it. Not just conservatives. I did not hear a peep from the libs when Obama made that comment. Not one peep.

Offline dixieman

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #94 on: April 22, 2009, 04:47:22 PM »
poz4afewyears... oh yes people will pcik, and pick every little detail of your comments if their not exactly the same as theirs... it's overwhelming at times but, do like I do... post your thoughts, read theirs and listen to their point of view and go from there. Some peopl on the message board enjoy being argumentive... because theres only one opinion... but, in America we all have a say whether someone agrees and or not!
Rapidrod I agree with you 100% on this one...

Offline Tim Horn

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #95 on: April 22, 2009, 04:47:32 PM »
Actually, Poz, "liberals" have had plenty to say about Obama's reluctance to support same-sex marriage, along with other decisions that don't jive with his campaign rhetoric -- the "liberal" outcry at his selection of Rick Warren to deliver the inaugural invocation is another case in point. I think you're being a little disingenuous with this analogy.

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #96 on: April 22, 2009, 04:48:43 PM »
That because liberals are Nazis.  (happy, ademas?)
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Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #97 on: April 22, 2009, 04:51:14 PM »
Tim Horn,

I really don't follow politics to that much of a degree. I go to a Unitarian Universalist church, and I am SURROUNDED by the most kneejerk liberals I have ever seen. And not one of them said a single thing about Obama not supporting same sex marriage, the did, however, comment on his choice of Rick Warren.
But there was no where near as much controversy about his comment as there was about this woman's. He is a representative of this country to the entire world. This woman is a bimbo.
So kow I have a President who does not support my right to marry someone of the same gender. He may not be supportive of banning it or making an amendment against it,  but he still doesn't support it.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 04:53:52 PM by poz4afewyears »

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #98 on: April 22, 2009, 04:54:10 PM »
That because liberals are Nazis.  (happy, ademas?)

Red herring?

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #99 on: April 22, 2009, 04:58:30 PM »
Well, I have to say that pozafew has done an excellent, and predictably duplicitous, job at moving the discussion away from his fascinating and oh-so-revealing "stereotypical" homosexuals. It sends a bad message to people" comment from just five hours ago.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #100 on: April 22, 2009, 04:59:21 PM »
Red herring?

Sarcasm, darling -- try not to be such a stereotypically dense homosexual.  It sends a bad message.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #101 on: April 22, 2009, 05:00:42 PM »
Hahahahahahahaha. Oh my. That REALLY made me laugh. Seriously. I really just laughed out loud.  :D

Offline Ann

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #102 on: April 22, 2009, 05:07:21 PM »
RapidRod,

These people have double standards. Miss California says that she doesn't agree with same sex marriage and she is a bigot whore and gets ripped a new asshole. Barack Obama says the exact same thing when asked his opinion and he gets elected President.

Democrats typically do shit like that. They say one thing and do another.

The only person on this website to call the woman a whore is YOU. Who's putting words into whose mouth? And you know what? I find your use of the word "whore" to describe this would-be-beauty-queen very offensive.

Yes, I do.


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Offline dtwpuck

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #103 on: April 22, 2009, 05:51:49 PM »
Funny, I thought she actually used the moment onstage to answer a question she wasn't asked.  She was asked, what should other states do about recognizing same sex marriage in other states, not how she feels about same sex marriage.  So, to me, it seems like she seized upon an opportunity to state her opinion.  (anyway... to be fair... I saw this pointed out in the Detroit Free Press)

Is she a bigot?  Yeah.  But if we are all really honest with ourselves, none of us have to dig too deep to find the bigotry in ourselves.   Should she be Miss USA?  Gee, if she had said that she was raised to believe that black people should be allowed to marry white people.. . . .  well...    yeah, that wouldm't have gone over too well either.  Besides beauty queens should be fag hags.  Cmon. 

Anyway, Miss USA is such a big deal, with such earth shattering influence that I think it's best that we all make a very sage and deliberate decision regarding her disposition.  Nothing could be more critical than making sure America's next beauty queen is the right person for the job. 

By the way, Ann... I really hope she's a whore.  I like whores.  To me, they are sexually liberated women who have given up trying to fit their sexuality into a neat little christian box.  (ummm  yeah.
alright.  i just typed that.) 

I think I will go run for Mister Leather now.
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Offline Oceanbeach

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #104 on: April 22, 2009, 05:59:28 PM »
Did this pageant happen on April 20th (420)?   ;D Have the best day
Michael

Offline newbernswiss

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #105 on: April 22, 2009, 06:05:25 PM »
WOW, I guess some people are not entitled to their opinions or express their beliefs, whether they are perceived as right or wrong.

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #106 on: April 22, 2009, 06:13:39 PM »
Not with the commie pinko thought police on patrol.

Offline dtwpuck

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #107 on: April 22, 2009, 06:28:31 PM »
To be fair, pozafew, the right wing has done a lot more to enforce their own brand of thought orthodoxy in the last decade than they are willing to admit.   I get oh so tired of listening to every single suggestion being branded 'socialist' or 'tax and spend' or 'family oriented' or 'family values' or blah blah blah.     In fact, much of what is wrong with the conservatism in this day and age can be blamed on a bunch of loud mouthed idealists who try to socially engineer their version of amerika into law.  They shout down anyone who disagrees with them.  So... the truth is the commie pinko knee jerk liberals to which you refer aren't any worse than the fat ass fat cat gap toothed bible thumpers who think jesus was a republican we've had to endure for the last ten years.

I still think all beauty queens should be fag hags. 
Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #108 on: April 22, 2009, 06:33:26 PM »
I am not a Christian, and I completely disagree with that portion of the Republican party. I take no responsibility for what they say or do. I do not even believe in God. I am an atheist conservative.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #109 on: April 22, 2009, 06:44:04 PM »
You mean like saying to the nation "We don't torture" while breaking the law and doing so 183 times in one month?

k

but this is irrelevant to the discussion, hence the red herring

Yes it is irrelevant along with the mentioning of race when it had no bearing on this discussion.

Offline dtwpuck

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #110 on: April 22, 2009, 06:45:19 PM »
I am an atheist conservative.

You must be a hit at Republican prayer vigils.
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Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #111 on: April 22, 2009, 06:53:16 PM »
Lol. I don't go to those things. I wasn't out there chanting "Save Terri" when Terri Schiavo was removed from life support. To be honest those people make me laugh. I don't think the Republican party itself holds prayer vigils, I think people who are Christians and Republicans hold the vigils on their own. But I could be mistaken, since I don't participate in that stuff.

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #112 on: April 22, 2009, 06:55:00 PM »
I am not a Christian, and I completely disagree with that portion of the Republican party. I take no responsibility for what they say or do. I do not even believe in God. I am an atheist conservative.

Odd.  Two hours ago you said this:

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=26778.msg332715#msg332715

Quote
I go to a Unitarian Universalist church, and I am SURROUNDED by the most kneejerk liberals I have ever seen.

If you'd just said you were a unitarian universalist I might bite on the atheism conversion, but if you're attending church I will assume that you still hold protestant beliefs of the Universalist Church of America.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 07:01:35 PM by Miss Philicia »
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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #113 on: April 22, 2009, 06:56:31 PM »
Yes it is irrelevant along with the mentioning of race when it had no bearing on this discussion.

Sure it does -- they're both civil rights movements.  Nice try though.
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Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #114 on: April 22, 2009, 06:59:27 PM »
Odd.  Two hours ago you said this:

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=26778.msg332715#msg332715


Um. ODD. But Unitarian Universalists are not Christians. Most UUs are secular humanists. Unitarians may be Christians, and Universalists may be Christians but UUs are not Christians. Some of the people at my Church are buddhist, some are jews, some are atheists, some are wiccans, some are nothing.

Why don't you STFU if you don't know what you are talking about?

Odd?

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #115 on: April 22, 2009, 07:00:44 PM »
Odd?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism

"Both Unitarianism and Universalism trace their origins to Christian Protestantism and thus Unitarian Universalism has its historical roots in the Christian faith. But by the time they decided to combine their efforts at the continental level, the theological significance of these terms had expanded beyond the traditional Christian understanding."

Pwned.

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #116 on: April 22, 2009, 07:03:21 PM »
If you'd just said you were a unitarian universalist I might bite on the atheism conversion, but if you're attending church I will assume that you still hold protestant beliefs of the Universalist Church of America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universalist_Church_in_America

As far as shutting up about things I know nothing about, I guess I can extend that one to the subject of lipoatrophy for you, right?  Thanks.
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Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #117 on: April 22, 2009, 07:06:28 PM »
Um, no. The Unitarian and the Universalist Churches are seperate from the Unitarian Universalist churches. Sorry. There are Unitarian Churches, there are Universalist Churches, but there are also Unitarian Universalist Churches, which are NOT Christian Churches.


Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #119 on: April 22, 2009, 07:10:41 PM »
As far as shutting up about things I know nothing about, I guess I can extend that one to the subject of lipoatrophy for you, right?  Thanks.

And just because I am not being paid by BMS, like the moderators are, doesn't mean I don't know what I am talking about.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #120 on: April 22, 2009, 07:20:15 PM »
Sure it does -- they're both civil rights movements.  Nice try though.
It's funny that I watched the video and not once did she compare race and gay marriage. But if you insist on comparing the two that's fine that is your opinion and YOUR right. I don't think you'll find too many Afro-American Baptists that will agree with you but that is THEIR opinion.

Offline poz4afewyears

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #121 on: April 22, 2009, 07:26:57 PM »
Everyone has the right to their own opinion, so long as it is a politically correct opinion and has been approved by the Council of Politically Correct Opinions of America.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 07:30:00 PM by poz4afewyears »

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #122 on: April 22, 2009, 07:37:15 PM »
And just because I am not being paid by BMS, like the moderators are, doesn't mean I don't know what I am talking about.

Post the pictures then.  I'm not getting paid by anyone. Put up or "STFU" as you say.
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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #123 on: April 22, 2009, 07:40:56 PM »
It's funny that I watched the video and not once did she compare race and gay marriage. But if you insist on comparing the two that's fine that is your opinion and YOUR right. I don't think you'll find too many Afro-American Baptists that will agree with you but that is THEIR opinion.

You're either mentally retarded or willfully obtuse -- take your pick.  Like I stated previously, if she'd made the exact same comment about miscegenation laws she'd have received similar commentary.  What's telling, however, is that you Roddles, see no similarity between anti-miscegenation laws and anti-gay marriage laws.  You seem more than willing to roll over and be an apologist for passive bigotry.  But then I'd expect nothing less from a guy who got AIDS in the 80's and thinks Reagan was a saint.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Tim Horn

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Re: Miss Calif: Gay marriage answer cost me Miss USA crown
« Reply #124 on: April 22, 2009, 08:39:28 PM »
Okay, boys, I think we can wrap this one up. This conversation headed down a slippery slope several hours ago and I don't think anything productive is going to come out of this, other than more mud slinging and wounded egos.

I'm locking this one up.

 


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